Blackest Night: Batman #3 Preview & Discussions (SPOILERS)

[SpideyZERO]

The stunning conclusion arrives!

Batman and Robin, along with the help of Deadman, try to defend Gotham City against the onslaught of Black Lanterns. But how do you defeat an enemy whose only goal is to feed off the emotions of a city and eat the hearts of all that stand in their way?

Prepare for the answer from writer Peter J. Tomasi (GREEN LANTERN CORPS, THE MIGHTY) and up-and-comer Ardian Syaf!

http://comics.ign.com/articles/103/1033895p1.html

I wonder if Batman can really figure out a way to beat the Black Lanterns

[Psavell2]

I really don't see this getting a conclusive ending. My prediction is that Batman and company join up with some other heros and we see him in the main Blackest Night book from now on. Probably the same for Superman. All these minis, in fact, I just don't see characters other than Lanterns or maybe magic users being able to defeat Black Lanterns.

[Sean Walsh]

I'm curious to see what kind of ending this series (and thus the other BN minis) will have.

*Something* conclusive has to happen, short of "the BL's are destroyed," which would damage the existance of the BL's all over the DCU)

[Will.S]

Yeah I think most of them will be dovetailing back into Blackest Night.

I think the Batman tie in has been one of the best ones outside of the regular GL book so far.

[Karl O'Neill]

Great preview. I love that art.

These mini series have all been stellar.

[AiyokuSama]

I have the feeling that Deadman is going to be "visiting" Firefly.

[DetectiveDupin]

Tomasi has shown he writes a good Damian.

[Captain Comet]

Wow, I had dropped this but......I really, really like that art. Like, a lot. I'd like to see more of that Syaf guy in the future.

[Captain Jim]

Tomasi said the guy has gotten better every issue.

[Choppa]

I agree nothing conclusive will happen.

The major events for BN will happen in the main series and this storyline will wrap up with no loose strings since it's in it's own book and not tied to regular Batman continuity.

It's been enjoyable so far, but pretty much a waste. We haven't seen Dick face anyone who challenges any guilt he has. The closest was the one comment from Blockbuster, but I think that should be the main plot point of the story especially since over in B&R and Batman he has shown show much insecurity about his role as Batman.

[Psavell2]

I think the Batman tie in has been one of the best ones outside of the regular GL book so far.

Absolutely. I was hoping it would be, since Batman has been my favorite character for about twelve years now, but I recall a lot of people predicting that Superman would be the best tie-in mini.

For the next round I'm looking forward to The Flash the most, but I'm still getting them all since I'm enjoying these first three so much. I even like the Titans mini, though sometimes it feels like I'm almost alone there.

[Sean Walsh]

Well, they found the way to resolve stuff and thus put a conclusion on the miniseries.

It kinda reads a bit weird (Black Lanterns can't see emotions through fire or ice......weird, but I guess it works...?) but it's surrounded by some HELLA trippy mind games from the parental figures that makes the issue worth it. And Tim spells out pretty clearly his reason for believing Bruce is still alive.

And we get another guest star. Because when the flamethrowers run out.....there's only one guy you can call. :wink:

Tomasi said the guy has gotten better every issue.

It's true. #3 looks even better than the last 2 put together.

[IvCNuB4]

Where did you see that about fire ? Fire doesn't block the BLs. The reason it worked with ice is because Dick froze both himself and Tim. I would assume that their brain activity was slowed down enough to inhibit emotional reactions. That's why Deadman was counting. He knew how long he had to revive them before brain damage set in ....

[BloodOps]

Like most of us thought, we didn't get a "ending" but we did get information that the lanterns can't sense emotions through ice and possibly other elements.

The entire issue as a whole was great though, from Dick and Tim letting their emotions get the best of them with their parents to Deadman taking over Etrigan. Out of all the tie ins to Blackest Night I definitely enjoyed this the most.

[invisiboy]

Does Oracle do anything in this issue?

[CMBMOOL]

What are Tim's reason for Bruce being alive and does anyone believe him ?

[Sean Walsh]

Where did you see that about fire ? Fire doesn't block the BLs. The reason it worked with ice is because Dick froze both himself and Tim. I would assume that their brain activity was slowed down enough to inhibit emotional reactions. That's why Deadman was counting. He knew how long he had to revive them before brain damage set in ....

My mistake. I presumed fire was a deterring agent because when the Demon is spewing flames at the BL's they can't read anything - that and because the fire shares the same grey/black color that he does. But that's not necessarily because of the fire, that's because he's a freakin' demon. Whoops. :tongue:

[IvCNuB4]

I see what you mean now. In that one scene where the Demon is all gray that's because the BLs can't read or connect with him at all. That's why the BL text box is all scribbles. Later one of them says it's because he has no heart ....

[Samuraixsithlord]

yea Etigren is immune to the BL's. Their hands pass right through him. He has no heart to harvest. Which means that certain supernatural creatures are immune to the BL.

[ryerye17]

GIVE THIS FACT, shouldn't Etrigan play a bigger role in Blackest Night?

He's immune to Black Lanterns.

But, then again, there's the comlaints of "Deus Ex Machina" and "He's too powerful"

Sigh.

[Doug Side]

But for some reason he wants nothing to do with it. He never would have gotten involved if it weren't for deadman. So my guess is he is just going to stand by and let the shit hit the fan.

[drinkblatzbeer]

we did get information that the lanterns can't sense emotions through ice and possibly other elements.
.

no, as another poster mentioned, it's more likely that being frozen slowed their brain activity down so much, they couldn't sense their emotions...

anyways, i agree, the issue itself was awesome...
i wasn't planning on picking up any of the blackest night books except for the main story and the main GL title, but am extremelly happy i picked this one up...

it really didn't do too much to move the blackest night plot along anywhere, though did give us a pretty fun romp with batman, red robin and deadman...and, well, demon, at the end...

[Thok]

no, as another poster mentioned, it's more likely that being frozen slowed their brain activity down so much, they couldn't sense their emotions...

It's also symbolic: Dick and Tim literally cooled down their emotions from the peak level of rage. They just needed to chill out.

[IvCNuB4]

GIVE THIS FACT, shouldn't Etrigan play a bigger role in Blackest Night?

He's immune to Black Lanterns.

But, then again, there's the comlaints of "Deus Ex Machina" and "He's too powerful"

Sigh.

Not really. Yes, he can't be read or taken over by the BLs but he also can't destroy them. His fire can burn them but their rings will just rebuild them. How is that "Deus Ex Machina" ?

I'm also not understanding the complaints about the "conclusion". All DC said was that it was the conclusion of this mini. Not the "Blackest Night" event. We do see Dick and Tim confront their resurrected parents and how they deal with that. That was something of closure for them. Also if you notice, as these minis and the main event continue, the heroes are picking up more info about what's happening. Just as Mera discovered in BN #3 that if she stayed in emotional control the BLs had trouble tracking her, here Dick figures out how to be practically invisible while right in front of them. Combine that with what is hinted at about Dove (in BN: Titans) and Etrigan here, and the Indigo tribe, the pieces are starting to come together.

[drinkblatzbeer]

It's also symbolic: Dick and Tim literally cooled down their emotions from the peak level of rage. They just needed to chill out.

yeah, i noticed they were hitting the red "rage" level and thought, that with guy gardener making that jump, we might get maybe tim to also do so here...then it ended and he didn't...

[CYOTI]

GIVE THIS FACT, shouldn't Etrigan play a bigger role in Blackest Night?

He's immune to Black Lanterns.

Etrigan is an evil demon of hell, he is not a good guy or a hero.

[SpideyZERO]

What are Tim's reason for Bruce being alive and does anyone believe him ?

Because there are so many amazing stuffs in the DCU (Deadman, Spectre, New Gods, Black Rings bringing dead to live) that there's a chance that Bruce may be alive.

I enjoy the issue. The conclusion is a bit rushed and too fast. I thought the series should have one more issue to deal with more emotion impact with the Black Lanterns. I like that despite trying to be rational, Dick and Tim fall victim to the Black Lanterns and have to let Deadman to save them. Still, Dick manages to come out with a great plan in a hopeless situation to become invisible to the Lanterns.

So now Batman and friends will appear in the main Blackest Night title?

[Hazard]

What are Tim's reason for Bruce being alive and does anyone believe him ?

He believes that because he got killed by the Omega Beams, and no one is quite sure how those work there is a chance he is alive.

On this issue, that was some quick thinking on Dick's part, and I really liked the inclusion of Etrigan and Deadman. All in all a good issue.

[CYOTI]

On a related note since Etrigan is unaffected given his demonic nature, could the same be said of the Phantom Stranger, one of his origins I recall was that he was an angel that sided neither with heaven or heal.

And strange enough, Tomasi is also writing the PS one shot in January.

[Captain Jim]

And that PS one-shot is supposed to follow-up on plot threads from the BN Batman mini.

[paulski]

Tomasi said the guy has gotten better every issue.

Tomasi's right. I flicked through this issue on the stands no more than an hour ago and thought "Holy shit, this guy can draw".

DC's got another talent on its hands. Good to see.

[Retro315]

Tony Zucco was something I should've seen coming, but his arrival actually surprised the hell out of me to the point I was probably feeling the same way Dick was - Jesus tap-dancing Christ, Tony Zucco, too? This couldn't get worse.

Jack Drake's little melodrama of literally reenacting Identity Crisis was a little disturbing, too.

I liked this conclusion. Dick and Tim did get sucked into the emotional trap, but luckily, some quick thinking by Dick saved their asses - first, sending Deadman to fetch Etrigan, and second, the freeze ray gambit. But it all involved Deadman's help, and not everybody has Deadman along.

I agree, I think Deadman, and maybe Etrigan, too, will follow up in Phantom Stranger and we may get an explanation why these ghostly, spirit, demon, or holy characters (Dove, too) seem immune to Black Lanterns. Lack of emotion? Divine protection? What's the story?

Now, besides that ... here's hoping Ardian Syaf is the artist on Phantom Stranger as well - I'm looking forward to seeing more from him, and his style seems like it would mesh pretty well with Phantom Stranger.

[Samuraixsithlord]

On a related note since Etrigan is unaffected given his demonic nature, could the same be said of the Phantom Stranger, one of his origins I recall was that he was an angel that sided neither with heaven or heal.


I think in the Book of Black chapters in the main BN title it mentions the phantom stranger being neither living nor dead so he's beyond Nekron's power.

It seems that otherworldly entities (like angels, demons, etc) may be immune to the BL. the BL's hand went right through Etigron without even harming him.

[Godlike13]

Loved it! My only problem was there wasn't enough. Felt a little compacted at there could have been more story. Still a great read, best Bat book of the week for me. To bad Tomasi isn't writing more Batman though. Especially given how well he writes the character.

Also the art was fantastic! It truly did get better after every issue.

[dupersuper]

GIVE THIS FACT, shouldn't Etrigan play a bigger role in Blackest Night?

He's immune to Black Lanterns.

But, then again, there's the comlaints of "Deus Ex Machina" and "He's too powerful"

Sigh.

More the argument of "unless Blood is in control, why would Etrigan give a damn?".

What are Tim's reason for Bruce being alive and does anyone believe him ?

Here it's just because so many others have come back from supposed death in the superhero game, in Adventure Comins he tells Kon it's because no one has ever been clear on what the omega beams really do. Kon believes him.

[CaptainBlue]

Thought it was pretty good with some nice little humorous touches.

"Robin"
"What?"
"No, the other Robin"

And I wonder if anybody got the $200,000 in gold buried in the grave marked Unknown next to the tomb of Arch Stanton.

[Sean Walsh]

GIVE THIS FACT, shouldn't Etrigan play a bigger role in Blackest Night?

He's immune to Black Lanterns.

But, then again, there's the comlaints of "Deus Ex Machina" and "He's too powerful."

Not powerful enough to completely destroy these BL's, though. He's a great deterrent and weapon to halt the BL's advance, but nothing more. The "deus ex machina" comes from the GL universe in this one, not from Kirby's Demon.

Plus he's got the Etrigan/Jason Blood thing to deal with - and since both don't seem to care about these events, it's gonna be hard to get him involved at all (which is why it took Deadman possessing Jason Blood and the Demon to get him involved in even this side event).

(And anyway, as we saw from the Spectre being taken over by the Black Lanterns, the supernatural/religious element is off the table.)

[Sean Walsh]

I think in the Book of Black chapters in the main BN title it mentions the phantom stranger being neither living nor dead so he's beyond Nekron's power.

It seems that otherworldly entities (like angels, demons, etc) may be immune to the BL. the BL's hand went right through Etigron without even harming him.

But the Spectre is now under Black Lantern control.

Sure, that's due to Cris Allen being taken over by the BL's. But while it's not perfect, Nekron and the BL's have achieved some supernatural control at least. That could lead somewhere.....couldn't it?

[derekw13029]

And I wonder if anybody got the $200,000 in gold buried in the grave marked Unknown next to the tomb of Arch Stanton.

Ha, yeah, that was a great allusion.

[Jarath]

I was a bit dissapointed in #2 but Tomasi really finished it off well here.

- I really liked how the Black Lanterns got their emotions running.

- Dick was very inventive with his planning, and I enjoyed the dynamic between him and Damien.

- Deadman in Etrigan was good fun. Also it was interesting to see that the demon was unreadable like Dove in BN: Titans. I expect this to get built on in the main title soon.

- I agree with many about the art. It got better and better as the issues went on. This guy is a rising star, and he'll get good exposure with this mini.

I was worried this mini was going to go flat after the second issue but I'm glad to say that this issue more than made up for the poor middle act. Looking forward to seeing how the Bat family move on into the main story from here.

[neverman]

I cannot find issue 3 - thank you for this thread. I read the first two and was dying to know what happened. thank you!

This whole Blackest Night story has me wondering if "God" exists in the DCU. Does anyone know? I am not a religious person (even though I grew up Methodist, which - if you are not familiar with it - is basically a lazy version of Baptist) but I wonder if Blackest Night offends the religious types, or if hardcore religious folks even read comics.

[HopeLantern]

This is by far the best of the minis so far. And can I say that the artist was FANTASTIC. Dick is proving that he is as resources as Bruce. Of course it makes sense that the BLs need an emotional reaction in order to "see" their victims since their entire purpose is to stamp out emotion. Seeing Dick and Tim both get in such rage was great. Tim is dangerous... this has definitely sparked new interest in the "Red Robin" series for me. Tomasi is GREAT.

[numberONE]

Story: My favorite issue of the series. Sick and scary with the return of the Flying Graysons and the Drakes. Tim freaking out was great. I liked the "other Robin" lines from Dick, although having it twice was a little over kill.

Art: Great art, although inconsistent at times. The guy's a rising star never the less!

Rating: 4/5

I cannot find issue 3 - thank you for this thread. I read the first two and was dying to know what happened. thank you!

This whole Blackest Night story has me wondering if "God" exists in the DCU. Does anyone know?

Well, gods exist, like the New Gods, etc, but I don't know if God does. Actually, come to think of, The Spectre 's a servant of God, right? If so, than I guess he does.

[Den]

I cannot find issue 3 - thank you for this thread. I read the first two and was dying to know what happened. thank you!

This whole Blackest Night story has me wondering if "God" exists in the DCU. Does anyone know? I am not a religious person (even though I grew up Methodist, which - if you are not familiar with it - is basically a lazy version of Baptist) but I wonder if Blackest Night offends the religious types, or if hardcore religious folks even read comics.

I'm not 'hardcore' but I do believe in God. I'm enjoying Blackest Night quite a lot :)

Back to this issue... I have to join the chorus of folks who loved way Dick thought of a way for them to survive, the 'the other Robin' lines, and of course, Dead Man is always a treat.

[CYOTI]

This whole Blackest Night story has me wondering if "God" exists in the DCU.
Yes he does. Zauriel and Spectre are proof of that, he is just very hands off.

[Captain Jim]

here's hoping Ardian Syaf is the artist on Phantom Stranger as well - I'm looking forward to seeing more from him, and his style seems like it would mesh pretty well with Phantom Stranger.

You're in luck; he is.

[Will.S]

I thought this issue ended this short mini excellently.

Very cool use of Mr. Freeze's gun, gotta give props to Tomasi for giving Dick a very Batman'ish way out of that one. I also enjoyed the nightmare scenarios that the Black Lanterns used on Dick and Tim, just when I thought that they couldn't do much else with them they do something creepy like this. Plus Adrian's art was pretty damn good, not great yet but almost getting there.

Certainly the best mini series of the tie in bunch thus far with Blackest Night Titans closing in.

9/10

[numberONE]

Yes he does. Zauriel and Spectre are proof of that, he is just very hands off.

Did he create the DC Universe? Or was it some other all-powerful being(s)?

[Sean Walsh]

Last I checked, God was referred to as "The Presence" in the DCU. I'm sure Ostrander's SPECTRE delved into the nature of that quite a bit, but I don't recall specifics.

We saw folks reach the gates of Heaven in DAY OF JUDGEMENT, so that aspect of God is there.

But yeah, besides a few folks like Spectre and Zauriel, he's VERY hands off.

[WorstThingUS]

Utter crap. I haven't felt this ripped off in awhile. This did not to be two issues, much less three. At best it's a one shot where Dick learns the best way to fight a Black Lantern is...to play dead? And their motivation to stop slaughtering civilians is what exactly? They didn't need anyone around before to do that, why would they stop now?

I will not buy any other tie-ins.

Last I checked, God was referred to as "The Presence" in the DCU. I'm sure Ostrander's SPECTRE delved into the nature of that quite a bit, but I don't recall specifics.

We saw folks reach the gates of Heaven in DAY OF JUDGEMENT, so that aspect of God is there.

But yeah, besides a few folks like Spectre and Zauriel, he's VERY hands off.

God was a semi regular character in Peter David's Supergirl, appearing to her as a small boy...which may or may not be in continuity.

[IvCNuB4]

Utter crap. I haven't felt this ripped off in awhile. This did not to be two issues, much less three. At best it's a one shot where Dick learns the best way to fight a Black Lantern is...to play dead?

There's more to it than that. Try reading page 2 of this thread.

And their motivation to stop slaughtering civilians is what exactly? .

They were killing civilians to draw Batman and Robin out. That's why they stopped once Dick, Damian and Tim showed up.

[WorstThingUS]

There's more to it than that. Try reading page 2 of this thread.

Fine. Emotionally dead. That still doesn't change the fact this was not a three issue story.

[Will.S]

Fine. Emotionally dead. That still doesn't change the fact this was not a three issue story.
Could it have been a one shot story?

I guess, but I didn't really feel that it suffered from being put into 3 issues. I'm not sure just how much of this stuff could have been crammed into one issue without some aspect of the story lacking or talking a hit but I thought it hit all the right emotional notes and put Batman and Robin(s) in an interesting situation where they had the odds majorly stacked against them.

[Choppa]

I didn't get the ending. By freezing their bodies the BL's couldn't sense their emotions, so their rings just fell off and they flew into space?

[Samuraixsithlord]

Did he create the DC Universe? Or was it some other all-powerful being(s)?

Well according to Grant Morrison, the "God" of the DC Universe is a monkey that sets at a typewriter and creates stuff.

He was the author of the Book of Limbo in Superman Beyond.

In FC he's the being under the blanket that causes Nix Uotan to remember that he was a Monitor

In FC: Revelations it's made known that "God" can't do any thing to directly stop Darkseid or Mandrakk because if he where to unleash his wrath upon them, he'd have to show them some kind of Mercy, which he didn't want to do because they didn't deserve mercy.

[DetectiveDupin]

.

In FC he's the being under the blanket that causes Nix Uotan to remember that he was a Monitor



Wasn't that Metron?

[Teatime Brutality]

Metron's in the scene too, but is distinct from the also present Monkey Guy...who I've seen read as being either as the Monkey-At-Typewriter or Himon.

Myself, I wouldn't think of Typewriter Monkey as 'God', but as more of a demiurge type thing. People have been cheerfully claiming to be God in Grant Morrison comics since Jack the Ripper did so in Doom Patrol and so we should probably tread a little carefully.

The closest thing to 'God' in the Final Crisis setup would be the proto-Monitor before his differentiation/individuation. And even there, that's something very distinct from 'The Presence', that which we normally think of as 'God' in the DCU...the difference being that the Presence is part of the story that broke out within the proto-Monitor.

[Samuraixsithlord]

The closest thing to 'God' in the Final Crisis setup would be the proto-Monitor before his differentiation/individuation. And even there, that's something very distinct from 'The Presence', that which we normally think of as 'God' in the DCU...the difference being that the Presence is part of the story that broke out within the proto-Monitor.

The omni-monitor also didn't create anything. The stories just showed up on it one day.

The omni-Monitor was supposed to symbolize the blank sheet of paper in which comics are drawn on.

The monkey at the typewriter is supposed to symbolize the writers of DC Comics. The creator or "god" as you would.

[Teatime Brutality]

The omni-monitor also didn't create anything. The stories just showed up on it one day.

The omni-Monitor was supposed to symbolize the blank sheet of paper in which comics are drawn on.

Quite. I said that it's 'the closest thing to God' in Final Crisis, not that there's a 1:1 correspondance with a typical theistic conception of God...because Final Crisis isn't a typical theistic text.

It is the empty page, and as such has the godly traits of 'being the thing that was here first' and 'being the foundation of everything that happens within it'

Here's the sort of idea that Morrison's guesturing at...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_%28philosophy%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monad_%28Gnosticism%29


The monkey at the typewriter is supposed to symbolize the writers of DC Comics. The creator or "god" as you would.

It certainly does symbolise the writers...but it's saying rather the opposite about how godly they are.

The idea is derrived from here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem

Rather than saying, "LO! The writers are gods!", by comparing them to a monkey unknowingly hammering out meaning through insensibly hammering on keys, Morrison's putting forward his view that "I'm only a processing station for roving memes"

In Mozza's view of writing then 'ideas' come from roving memes/a higher dimension/a sentient DCU/Whatever and the writer is just a middle man. The writer doesn't create anything. The stories just show up in it one day.

The symbol of the monkey's a denial of writerly authority, rather than a claim that the writer is god.

[CYOTI]

I didn't get the ending. By freezing their bodies the BL's couldn't sense their emotions, so their rings just fell off and they flew into space? No by freezing themselve, they rendered themselves unconscious and no longer subject to emotions that attracted the Black Lanterns to them.

[Choppa]

No by freezing themselve, they rendered themselves unconscious and no longer subject to emotions that attracted the Black Lanterns to them.

Isn't that the same thing I said? Also, why did the rings fall off and why did they just leave? I can understand if they just went in search of emotions elsewhere, but why did their rings fall off then?

[IvCNuB4]

The rings didn't fall off. Where do you think you see that ? BL rings are attached to the host. (see BN#3) They can't just fall off.
The BLs just took off because they could no longer sense Dick or Tim, and assumed that they had escaped.

[invisiboy]

Fine. Emotionally dead. That still doesn't change the fact this was not a three issue story.


I agree.

I felt issues 1 and 3 were so-so, with #2 being the best one. But DC could easily have told this story in a large one-shot or two regular issues.

It's weird that Dick doesn't even wonder why BL Bruce hasn't shown up.