Suggestions for non-acid bath Joker origins?

[RubberLotus]

I'm writing a fanfiction (with the tentative title of "stacked deck") composed of a multitude of oneshots, each one of them a different origin story for the Clown Prince of Crime. I've already got about two or three ideas, but I'd like to see a couple of suggestions from my fellow posters.

There is only one requirement: no acid bath. His appearance could be a birth defect, a military experiment gone wrong, etc. Just no scenarios with him in a factory and falling into a tank of green goop.

So, anyone have a suggestion?

[M. Bushbug]

Acid SHOWER.

A truck carrying acid wrecks and acid spills from off the bridge down onto the Joker.

[wrecksracer]

He's the son of circus clowns who get gunned down before his eyes.....which drives him insane.

He crosses drug dealers who give him a masssive dose of an experimental drug.

He gets bitten by a radioactive clown.

[nicolereis]

If you want to tie it in to an origin story, you could have something along the lines of his parents abusing him as a child by injecting him with chemicals or force feeding him chemicals of some sort. And that also could tie in to why he turned out the way he did, mentally.

[Artificial idiot]

He fell into a vat of radioactive Joker cards...

[carabas]

He just wears make-up and dies his hair/wears a wig? Why make it overly complicated?

[Retro315]

Acid spray?

Or how about this!

Joker and Acid! Not hydrochloric, no. LSD.

He got super high dropping acid and painted himself like a clown. Let's face it, everything about Joker seems like an acid trip anyway ... neon greens and purples ... evil clowns and firearms ...

[nepenthes]

Born into a musical family with an overbearing father he becomes a child pop sensation struggling with identity problems that worsen into adulthood.

[Personamanx]

He was a Clown who performed at Kid Parties, and then one day he snapped, and filled his Squirting Flower with Acid, and turned the Children into his minions as he sought out Chaos.

[LordEd1976]

Like in Killing Joke, Joker was an ordinary man who thought he could make it as a comedian. He tried once but bombed. His wife told him his tall, skinny frame made him a perfect clown. Unfortunately, the makeup and hair dye he used were toxic. He discovered this too late as the fumes killed his wife. He tried again to do standup but was starting to bomb again. He finally snapped and began killing audience members (ex: beating a heckling man to death with a chair, stabbing another heckler with a broken bottle.). After being arrested, the cops tried to take the makeup off but found it could not be removed. This was the straw that broke the camel's back. The ordinary man was gone for good, all the remains is the Joker.

[Lew Moxon]

Born into a musical family with an overbearing father he becomes a child pop sensation struggling with identity problems that worsen into adulthood.

:biggrin:

That's hilarious.

[Vakanai]

Strict military dad, no laughter allowed. Never saw a cartoon or a comedy. Got in trouble the one time he dared to quip a joke. Had to keep everything orderly. Never had any fun. Eventually he grew up and got a mundane, soul crushing job filling forms and keeping things orderly. His boss was a lot like his dad, another dull, well ordered strict guy. Then comes a trigger. Maybe his girl friend dyes, maybe he gets mugged, but something happens, and he snaps. He puts on make up, dies his hair. The guy who was never allowed to laugh becomes a clown, the man who had to live his whole life orderly becomes an agent of chaos.

[Alan2099]

On the run from the mob, he has his face surgicaly alrtered to look like a clown then hides in a circus where he doesn't think anyone will ever find him!

[Lew Moxon]

Strict military dad, no laughter allowed. Never saw a cartoon or a comedy. Got in trouble the one time he dared to quip a joke. Had to keep everything orderly. Never had any fun. Eventually he grew up and got a mundane, soul crushing job filling forms and keeping things orderly. His boss was a lot like his dad, another dull, well ordered strict guy. Then comes a trigger. Maybe his girl friend dyes, maybe he gets mugged, but something happens, and he snaps. He puts on make up, dies his hair. The guy who was never allowed to laugh becomes a clown, the man who had to live his whole life orderly becomes an agent of chaos.

I really like that idea.

[Vakanai]

I really like that idea.

Thanks. I couldn't think of an actual 'snapping' point, but I liked the idea that the whole chaos and joking thing was just the result of a humorless, overly orderly life. Basically, he's rebelling against what his life used to be like.

[mgs]

Artist/writer Mike Huddleston did something like this a while ago. Forgot what he called his character though. And he even gave his 'Joker' with a female, much in the way Harley Quinn is for DC's Joker.

He was simply a homicidal criminal who was caught and put on medications (via State sanction) which calmed him and made him acceptable for society but his girl constantly dreams about the old criminal, fun days hanging out with him, so she replaces his 'crazy' pills with a placebo, and he eventually goes back to being a homicidal maniac.

Not really an 'origin' per se, but sort of a new beginning type deal.

[Lew Moxon]

My version, and I've fleshed this one out in my own little work.

The man who would be Joker is born a mentally unstable man, prone to mood swings. He manages to hold a brief job as a chemist, but his mood creates problems. A marriage manages to keep these highs and lows somewhat in check. Said man becomes a failed comedian of some sort. but one day his wife dies in a pointless random accident. Something like a loose tile falling on her. Upon witnessing his wife's death, he loses any respect for law and order, and becomes a criminal. Over the years he works his way up the criminal underworld's ladder till he becomes a smarter and more manipulative version of Tommy Udo to whoever the reigning Gotham crimelord is. Basically, he's Zucco/Maroni/Falcone's pet pitbull. And whenever anyone crosses said crime lord, the man responds horribly. Eventually, this crazed mood-swing prone hitman tires of the leash of being required to only attack under the orders of the boss, and conspires to bring said boss down. In the ensuing chaos caused by the collapse of a powerful syndicate, the man develops a new kind of poison, and begins targeting individuals with no connections whatsoever to organized crime. He picks the name "Joker" as his alias at this point, and eventually decides to wear makeup and dye his hair as part of the gag. Over time, the former chemist-turned comedian-turned hitman becomes less and less sane, leading to increasingly deranged behavior.

[Freakzeek]

Strict military dad, no laughter allowed. Never saw a cartoon or a comedy. Got in trouble the one time he dared to quip a joke. Had to keep everything orderly. Never had any fun. Eventually he grew up and got a mundane, soul crushing job filling forms and keeping things orderly. His boss was a lot like his dad, another dull, well ordered strict guy. Then comes a trigger. Maybe his girl friend dyes, maybe he gets mugged, but something happens, and he snaps. He puts on make up, dies his hair. The guy who was never allowed to laugh becomes a clown, the man who had to live his whole life orderly becomes an agent of chaos.

This Should Be his real origin, other than the agent of chaos thing, i like it more if he was just a looney psychopath with a hardon for bad comedy

[Captain Jim]

He gets bitten by a radioactive clown.

Thanks; that made me LOL.

[Sizzle]

Thanks; that made me LOL.

Me too, as well as the Jackson origin.

[Sn4tcH]

My version, and I've fleshed this one out in my own little work.

The man who would be Joker is born a mentally unstable man, prone to mood swings. He manages to hold a brief job as a chemist, but his mood creates problems. A marriage manages to keep these highs and lows somewhat in check. Said man becomes a failed comedian of some sort. but one day his wife dies in a pointless random accident. Something like a loose tile falling on her. Upon witnessing his wife's death, he loses any respect for law and order, and becomes a criminal. Over the years he works his way up the criminal underworld's ladder till he becomes a smarter and more manipulative version of Tommy Udo to whoever the reigning Gotham crimelord is. Basically, he's Zucco/Maroni/Falcone's pet pitbull. And whenever anyone crosses said crime lord, the man responds horribly. Eventually, this crazed mood-swing prone hitman tires of the leash of being required to only attack under the orders of the boss, and conspires to bring said boss down. In the ensuing chaos caused by the collapse of a powerful syndicate, the man develops a new kind of poison, and begins targeting individuals with no connections whatsoever to organized crime. He picks the name "Joker" as his alias at this point, and eventually decides to wear makeup and dye his hair as part of the gag. Over time, the former chemist-turned comedian-turned hitman becomes less and less sane, leading to increasingly deranged behavior.

Sounds very similar to the B:TAS and Burton origin of Joker.

[Mister Blisterfists]

He was an enormously popular pop star who got really into plastic surgery, and skin bleaching after an accident involving an exploding pepsi logo.

[jgiannantoni05]

Alright no acid bath...hmmm, I got it!...CHEMICAL BATH!!!!

http://www.comics101.com/comics101//images/view.php?src=../news/Comics%20101/63/intothevat.jpg&w=

Yea, reminds of the origin some schmoe named Bill Finger created for the character he created, The Joker.

[RubberLotus]

Alright no acid bath...hmmm, I got it!...CHEMICAL BATH!!!!

http://www.comics101.com/comics101//images/view.php?src=../news/Comics%20101/63/intothevat.jpg&w=

Yea, reminds of the origin some schmoe named Bill Finger created for the character he created, The Joker.

Never heard of him. :tongue:

[Retro315]

Strictly speaking, I actually like the "pick and choose" pre-acid origins Joker already has for the reason that I like certain elements from each story.

From Alan Moore's The Killing Joke origin, I like the idea that he worked as a chemist.

From Dini & Ross's Case Study, I like the idea that he was this super-cunning gangster, who double-crossed everybody just to prove he could.

From the recent "Lovers & Madmen", I really like the idea that he was this amazing "specialist" for safe-cracking and heists, but he was so bored with getting away with "perfect crimes" and so fascinated by Batman that he started purposely botching crimes just to get Batman's attention. (That would've been a great reason for something as absurd as the "Red Hood" identity).

From The Laughing Fish, way in the way back, I love his offhanded comment that hints at him being Irish ("Great Scot!" "Actually, I'm Irish ...") and The Animated Series went further and added the "hitman" element.

It's not the most P.C. thing ever, but I always thought the concept of Joker being from the "Irish immigrant" neighborhoods of Gotham would work. For starters, he might as well start fairly pale-skinned and a ginger, to begin with. His father was an alcoholic, and hell, a Carny, who beat the hell out of young "Jackie-Boy". His father being a Carny meant Joker was destined to be street smart and a grifter, but also led to a massive case of coulrophobia (fear of clowns). He MAY OR MAY NOT have killed his father as a teenager. He very quickly then got involved with the local Irish mob (not seen much since Long Halloween). Was insanely smart, went from being a smalltime thug to being a "specialist" for heists and hits. He's dubbed the "Prince of Crime", because it seems like he's untouchable - never caught, I.D.ed, fingerprinted, or informed on. Worked for big time bosses (think Sal Valestra in TAS - guys hire him but he's smart enough not to get double-crossed or dimed on if they go down) ... and in the midst of being bored with the same-old, same-old, and responding to Batman's crackdown on the Mob, developed the Red Hood guise, but obviously underestimated Batman, got his chemical bath, was forced to look in the mirror and see a clown face staring back at him. Terrified of clowns, and of course, hatred of his father, who is forever associated with clowns, and now trapped with the face of a clown, Joker, who was already a criminal, a sociopath, and living "outside conventional society" just loses his mind. But he also loses his fear of clowns, so there's a plus, right!

It's kind of The Departed meets Carnies meets ... any story where the abused kid turns into a psycho.

[Lew Moxon]

snip.

This is the kind of synthesis I was going for. Case Study is the story that got me into the comics in the first place, so it holds a special place in my heart. The important part of the Killing Joke is the chemist acid bath per se, it's the idea of something suddenly snapping a man, although one could argue that the book itself argues against it. ProtoJoker doesn't seem very stable to me. As for the origin itself, I like it a lot.

[nicolereis]

Strictly speaking, I actually like the "pick and choose" pre-acid origins Joker already has for the reason that I like certain elements from each story.

From Alan Moore's The Killing Joke origin, I like the idea that he worked as a chemist.

From Dini & Ross's Case Study, I like the idea that he was this super-cunning gangster, who double-crossed everybody just to prove he could.

From the recent "Lovers & Madmen", I really like the idea that he was this amazing "specialist" for safe-cracking and heists, but he was so bored with getting away with "perfect crimes" and so fascinated by Batman that he started purposely botching crimes just to get Batman's attention. (That would've been a great reason for something as absurd as the "Red Hood" identity).

From The Laughing Fish, way in the way back, I love his offhanded comment that hints at him being Irish ("Great Scot!" "Actually, I'm Irish ...") and The Animated Series went further and added the "hitman" element.

It's not the most P.C. thing ever, but I always thought the concept of Joker being from the "Irish immigrant" neighborhoods of Gotham would work. For starters, he might as well start fairly pale-skinned and a ginger, to begin with. His father was an alcoholic, and hell, a Carny, who beat the hell out of young "Jackie-Boy". His father being a Carny meant Joker was destined to be street smart and a grifter, but also led to a massive case of coulrophobia (fear of clowns). He MAY OR MAY NOT have killed his father as a teenager. He very quickly then got involved with the local Irish mob (not seen much since Long Halloween). Was insanely smart, went from being a smalltime thug to being a "specialist" for heists and hits. He's dubbed the "Prince of Crime", because it seems like he's untouchable - never caught, I.D.ed, fingerprinted, or informed on. Worked for big time bosses (think Sal Valestra in TAS - guys hire him but he's smart enough not to get double-crossed or dimed on if they go down) ... and in the midst of being bored with the same-old, same-old, and responding to Batman's crackdown on the Mob, developed the Red Hood guise, but obviously underestimated Batman, got his chemical bath, was forced to look in the mirror and see a clown face staring back at him. Terrified of clowns, and of course, hatred of his father, who is forever associated with clowns, and now trapped with the face of a clown, Joker, who was already a criminal, a sociopath, and living "outside conventional society" just loses his mind. But he also loses his fear of clowns, so there's a plus, right!

It's kind of The Departed meets Carnies meets ... any story where the abused kid turns into a psycho.

That's awesome! I really like your idea. They should totally make that in to a comic.

[Alan2099]

Here's a more serious one.

Jack is a mob enforcer. A tall wiry guy that never laughs, never smiles, doesn't talk much, and never seems to be enjoying himself. Because of his stone face expression, he's earned the nickname "the Joker". You just don't ever want to say it to his face. He's got a bit of a temper and is quite knowledgable with knives and poisons.

He's also got a deep phobia of clowns, not that he'd ever admit it of course. If he says anything on the subject at all, it'd just be that "I don't like clowns." This is where his downfall comes in.

He happens to get caught one day and dragged to a rivals temporary hideout, and tide up in an old abanonded novelty factory, where, as you may have guessed, they have clown costumes, clown logos, all sorts of those things he's horribly afraid of. Worse yet, while being kept hostage, the guys get a little bored. Now they're nto trying to torture the guy or anything, they're really just trying to degrade and make fun of him. He's "the Joker" after all, so the guy should look like a clown, right? Little bit of party makeup, little clown nose and a funny hat, , that sort of thing. Now being trapped in a warehouse where he ahd to look at clowns was bad enough. Being made into a clwon himself, and keopt there for several days, that's just enough to drive the poor guy mad.

Let's just say when he does get lose finally, it's not exactly pretty and like Nicholson said, "and as you can see, I'm alot happier."

[Flash230]

Strict military dad, no laughter allowed. Never saw a cartoon or a comedy. Got in trouble the one time he dared to quip a joke. Had to keep everything orderly. Never had any fun. Eventually he grew up and got a mundane, soul crushing job filling forms and keeping things orderly. His boss was a lot like his dad, another dull, well ordered strict guy. Then comes a trigger. Maybe his girl friend dyes, maybe he gets mugged, but something happens, and he snaps. He puts on make up, dies his hair. The guy who was never allowed to laugh becomes a clown, the man who had to live his whole life orderly becomes an agent of chaos.

This is the origin to go with! I just love the senseless Joker-style twist!!

Because his girlfriend DYES (his t-shirts, maybe?) he puts on make-up and makes his own hair DIE! (maybe he kills each one of the little strands, one by one!) Afterwards, he decides to do it the other way around and he makes his girlfriend DIE (by killing her) and then discovers a way to bring his hair back to life and he DYES it green!

Oh, the lunacy just takes-off after that! :biggrin:

[jaysinleigh]

Thanks. I couldn't think of an actual 'snapping' point, but I liked the idea that the whole chaos and joking thing was just the result of a humorless, overly orderly life. Basically, he's rebelling against what his life used to be like.

I like that- as far as a snapping point, i think the creepier way to do it would be for there to have been no exact snapping point. No wife murdered, no great tragedy in his life that pushed him over the edge, just a slow slide into madness because he couldn't stand the world around him. And once he had crossed the line, once he had put on the clown make-up and got a taste for it, there was no going back.

[Vakanai]

This is the origin to go with! I just love the senseless Joker-style twist!!

Because his girlfriend DYES (his t-shirts, maybe?) he puts on make-up and makes his own hair DIE! (maybe he kills each one of the little strands, one by one!) Afterwards, he decides to do it the other way around and he makes his girlfriend DIE (by killing her) and then discovers a way to bring his hair back to life and he DYES it green!

Oh, the lunacy just takes-off after that! :biggrin:
Alright, see, this is the real origin of the Joker. Man can't even make a simple typo without somebody driving him insane.
Ha!
Hahahahahahahahahaha!:evilsmile:
I like that- as far as a snapping point, i think the creepier way to do it would be for there to have been no exact snapping point. No wife murdered, no great tragedy in his life that pushed him over the edge, just a slow slide into madness because he couldn't stand the world around him. And once he had crossed the line, once he had put on the clown make-up and got a taste for it, there was no going back.

I like this idea!

[jgiannantoni05]

I said this on another board:

Firstly, I love not having a definite origin for Joker. Was a stroke of genius in KJ to have Joker talk about the multiple choice.

Secondly, if I had to prefer some origin, I'd prefer one that doesn't even really exist. I'd prefer a mix b/w Killing Joke's failed comedian dead wife sympathetic "one bad day" origin and Dini's Case Study career criminal Joker origin. Basically, I'd prefer an origin where Joker is a guy who tried to juggle his criminal and family life. Circumstances kinda pushed him to a life of crime (he is poor, has family members in organized crime), but he wasn't so bad a guy, and tried to leave crime behind and live happily with his wife. But fate had other ideas, his wife dies, his brainchild Red Hood caper goes to hell, and he winds up The Joker.

In my uncertain mind, this is Joker's origin to me. I take it from the famous saying: "The truth is always in the middle."


It's not the most P.C. thing ever, but I always thought the concept of Joker being from the "Irish immigrant" neighborhoods of Gotham would work. For starters, he might as well start fairly pale-skinned and a ginger, to begin with. His father was an alcoholic, and hell, a Carny, who beat the hell out of young "Jackie-Boy". His father being a Carny meant Joker was destined to be street smart and a grifter, but also led to a massive case of coulrophobia (fear of clowns). He MAY OR MAY NOT have killed his father as a teenager. He very quickly then got involved with the local Irish mob (not seen much since Long Halloween). Was insanely smart, went from being a smalltime thug to being a "specialist" for heists and hits. He's dubbed the "Prince of Crime", because it seems like he's untouchable - never caught, I.D.ed, fingerprinted, or informed on. Worked for big time bosses (think Sal Valestra in TAS - guys hire him but he's smart enough not to get double-crossed or dimed on if they go down) ... and in the midst of being bored with the same-old, same-old, and responding to Batman's crackdown on the Mob, developed the Red Hood guise, but obviously underestimated Batman, got his chemical bath, was forced to look in the mirror and see a clown face staring back at him. Terrified of clowns, and of course, hatred of his father, who is forever associated with clowns, and now trapped with the face of a clown, Joker, who was already a criminal, a sociopath, and living "outside conventional society" just loses his mind. But he also loses his fear of clowns, so there's a plus, right!
This is a great example of the "truth is in the middle" origin that I imagine is Joker's true origin. Really great take on Joker's origin, bravo nicolereis. I'm not sure they should ever clearly canonize this version, like I said, I like the multiple choice. But if any origin had to be made a certainty, it should be this.

I would just throw something in about Jack having a hobby in chemistry, or having worked as a chemist at some point in his life. Maybe add a wife or girlfriend or something that could be construed as sympathetic. I definitely would not have him kill his father.

[ffaristocrat]

One thing I really liked about the Dark Knight was the origin-less Joker as a Lovecraftian menace. There's no "why" the Joker; he simply is and chaos and madness follow him wherever he treads.