Why exactly do fanboys and creators like to label Batman as "crazy"?

[Ghostman]

I've just finished watching the extras for the new Superman/Batman DVD, where a psycologist pretty much said that Batman technically dosent suffer from any severe mental isssues, in fact, a similar sentiment was reached by professionals in another TV special about Batman's mental issues during the "TDK" marketing campaign.

Moreover, Batman himself exists in a world where people routinely dress up and beat the crap out of criminals...many, like Batman himself, do this without powers.

So, I'm curious as to why Batman is singled out as insane....Is this a valid argument, or an attempt to make Batman stand out?

[Lew Moxon]

Bruce Wayne is often labeled insane, because the origin itself lends to it in a way that other superhero origins don't.

If traumatic events can effect mental states thereafter, seeing one's parents gunned down in cold blood in front of your eyes at age eight would do it.

Wayne is driven by that trauma, which ever interpretation one picks, whether he is sane or not, it's still his parents deaths that made him Batman.

Because he is so trauma based, its easy to write Bruce Wayne as deranged, obsessive, and driven by unending grief.

It also has to do with his rouges gallary, because so many of them are crazy, by saying Bruce is equally insane, it creates a powerful connection with those he fights, if done right.

I think he's a more interesting figure if one writes him as a little unhinged, but one can go too far. I see Bruce as damaged and traumatized, but not completely insane. It's all a matter of degree.

[moneyspider]

I actually wrote a paper about Batman's insanity in my Abnormal Psychology class in college a few years ago.

Batman is insane because he is completely obsessed with fighting crime...not to mention the fact that he willingly lets teenagers risk their lives while they are helping him fight crime.

You'd think that Batman would have learned his lesson when Robin 2 (Jason Todd) was killed by the Joker, but Batman eventually took on another teenaged partner. (And why the Gotham City Police Dept. allows Batman to risk a kid's life, I'll never understand).

Batman feels compelled to rid Gotham City of ALL crime...while that is a commendable goal, I think he is crazy to think that he and a few of his allies can permanently rid Gotham of crime by fighting the way that they do. Batman refuses to kill, and so he keeps locking the members of his rogues gallery up in Arkham Asylum and Blackgate (?) over and over and over again...and these same villains keep escaping over and over and over again...especially the Joker, who is allowed to remain alive, due to the fact that he is insane and therefore has no control over his actions.

And does Batman just want to end all crime in Gotham, or the entire planet? If it's just Gotham, why stop there? His mission in life is to fight crime so that no one else will ever have to deal with the pain of losing loved ones...but people lose loved ones all over the planet. Would Batman hang up his cape and cowl after he rid Gotham of crime?

And if he wants to fight crime on a global scale after he rids Gotham of all crime (if such a thing was possible), how would he launch a planetary war against crime? How effective would such a mission be?

I wish I had my psychology paper in front of me...I can't remember what else I said about Batman's insanity.

I still think he's a great character, though...overly obsessive, but still cool. At least he shows what a human being can achieve if she or he is willing to work hard to train the mind, body and spirit to be much more than ordinary.

[WorstThingUS]

The answer is simple: money.

Frank Miller made DC millions of dollars portraying him that way and since then, that's been his way.

[Retro315]

Pfft ... crazy like a fox!

No, I imagine it's to make him seem edgier and more multifaceted (who's more multifaceted than a schizophrenic?)

I guess they might like the irony of reconciling yourself as a "man obsessed" with the heroic ideals you're supposed to be living up to.

I'm okay with people off-handedly calling Batman crazy, so long as he never crosses the lines set by the title of "hero" very far.

[wrecksracer]

if that's not crazy, I don't know what is.

[Vakanai]

if that's not crazy, I don't know what is.

That's actually a misconception. Bats aren't rodents, and therefore are not 'rats with wings.' They merely have a similar appearance.

[Hullababy]

The answer is simple: money.

Frank Miller made DC millions of dollars portraying him that way and since then, that's been his way.

The truth.

[Scott Taylor]

Its Alan Moore's fault for making Rorschach such a cool character. Too much focus on pseudorealism in today's comics, and Batman is supposed to be the gritty one so he gets lots of it.

[Retro315]

Its Alan Moore's fault for making Rorschach such a cool character. Too much focus on pseudorealism in today's comics, and Batman is supposed to be the gritty one so he gets lots of it.

Which is a shame ... because pseudorealism is no alternative for real realism. Rorschach over-narrates. Nobody over-narrates their own life, or uses that kind of language in a journal. Nobody uses those adjectives for things.

He's a cool character, for sure ... but he's hammier than the absolute worst offenders in the various Noir formats (film, comics, novels, etc ...) and in a way he's cheesier than the Adam West Batman - taking himself TOO seriously in the way that the 60's Batman didn't take things seriously enough.

But I digress. I'll definitely agree with the whole "because Frank Miller made DC tons of money with his new take". Notice that even Alan Moore, Miller's predecessor in the whole "darkification" of DC, might have made the Joker do some serious damage and have an interesting psychological origin, but Batman remained relatively unchanged from the way that Denny O'Neill & Co. had been portraying him through the 70's and early 80's.

Hnn.

[nightwing45]

I actually wrote a paper about Batman's insanity in my Abnormal Psychology class in college a few years ago.

Batman is insane because he is completely obsessed with fighting crime...not to mention the fact that he willingly lets teenagers risk their lives while they are helping him fight crime.

You'd think that Batman would have learned his lesson when Robin 2 (Jason Todd) was killed by the Joker, but Batman eventually took on another teenaged partner. (And why the Gotham City Police Dept. allows Batman to risk a kid's life, I'll never understand).

Batman feels compelled to rid Gotham City of ALL crime...while that is a commendable goal, I think he is crazy to think that he and a few of his allies can permanently rid Gotham of crime by fighting the way that they do. Batman refuses to kill, and so he keeps locking the members of his rogues gallery up in Arkham Asylum and Blackgate (?) over and over and over again...and these same villains keep escaping over and over and over again...especially the Joker, who is allowed to remain alive, due to the fact that he is insane and therefore has no control over his actions.

And does Batman just want to end all crime in Gotham, or the entire planet? If it's just Gotham, why stop there? His mission in life is to fight crime so that no one else will ever have to deal with the pain of losing loved ones...but people lose loved ones all over the planet. Would Batman hang up his cape and cowl after he rid Gotham of crime?

And if he wants to fight crime on a global scale after he rids Gotham of all crime (if such a thing was possible), how would he launch a planetary war against crime? How effective would such a mission be?

I wish I had my psychology paper in front of me...I can't remember what else I said about Batman's insanity.

I still think he's a great character, though...overly obsessive, but still cool. At least he shows what a human being can achieve if she or he is willing to work hard to train the mind, body and spirit to be much more than ordinary.

Robin Year One by Chuck Dixon; Commissioner Gordon told Batman that Robin was a minor and that he shouldn't be participating in the Batman's vigilante acts. When Two-Face beat the holy hell out of Robin; Gordon threatened to throw Batman in jail if he took Robin into danger again because he suspected something happened to the boy when Batman answered the bat signal without Robin. However, Robin didn't want to be just a normal kid; the vigilante life allowed him to deal with his problems much like Peter's web-slinging does. He managed to capture Mister Freeze and later the Shrike with Batman's help, and when they showed up together to answer the bat signal at the end; Batman said to Gordon that Robin is his partner and that they are a team. Which implied that Batman was willing to go to jail to defend their partnership.

That is why Gordon has never really bothered doing anything because he realizes if he does arrest Batman; he'd have to face the nutjobs of Arkam himself.

[Jorriss]

That's actually a misconception. Bats aren't rodents, and therefore are not 'rats with wings.' They merely have a similar appearance.
I think that's what most people mean by rats with wings, they look rats, but with wings...Generally speaking I don't imagine people with they have the same kingdom, phylum, class, etc...

On that topic though, is every superhero crazy then? Blue Beetle's gotta be worse than a flying rodent O_O

[Sizzle]

Bruce Wayne died in the alley with his parents, at that time, the personality of Batman was born and took over.

[Lew Moxon]

The answer is simple: money.

Frank Miller made DC millions of dollars portraying him that way and since then, that's been his way.

It would have been a lot harder for Miller to do so had Batman had a different origin, in my humble opinion.

[Den]

I think JLU flash may have said it best
"You're a stand-up guy, Bats. Don't let anyone ever call you a crazed loner." :)

[NickFury90]

"Well, a guy running around dressed like a giant bat clearly has issues" - Bruce Wayne

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

if that's not crazy, I don't know what is.

As opposed to dressing up like robin hood. Or dressing up like no-face. Or dressing up in fishnets and a blonde wig. Or wearing your underwear over your pants. Or wearing a bustier and bikini briefs.

[Sn4tcH]

As opposed to dressing up like robin hood. Or dressing up like no-face. Or dressing up in fishnets and a blonde wig. Or wearing your underwear over your pants. Or wearing a bustier and bikini briefs.

Exactly, if Watchmen taught us anything, you have to have some issues to want to be a super hero.

[Zembo]

He's paranoid and OCD about plans and counter-plans and counter-counter-plans-based on not wanting to lose people. He is insane, even if it's just a little. No one who is a normal human could go through and seen what he has in his life and career and not be a little unhinged. He knows it, and accepts it, because it gives him purpose and lets him make sense of the world and deal with his issues, but he is not all there. And never will be.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

He's paranoid and OCD about plans and counter-plans and counter-counter-plans-based on not wanting to lose people.

No hes prepared.

No one who is a normal human could go through and seen what he has in his life and career and not be a little unhinged.

Hes not a Normal human, hes the god damned Batman!

[Sn4tcH]

No hes prepared.

No, he's frickin' nuts.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

No, he's frickin' nuts.

No, that's just what your avatar wants you to believe. You're listening to a message board avatar and calling someone else nuts? Crrrraaaazzzzy!

[Hazard]

No hes prepared.


You mean crazy prepared. Seriously though, he is a little insane, but he is also far from unstable. If he did not have a little insanity in him he probably wouldn't be half as effective as he was. This is a guy that tries to get into the minds of some of some of the craziest individuals in the DCU and find what makes them tick. That's bound to make you a little insane.

[Vakanai]

I think that's what most people mean by rats with wings, they look rats, but with wings...Generally speaking I don't imagine people with they have the same kingdom, phylum, class, etc...

Scientific accuracy is important.

As opposed to dressing up like robin hood. Or dressing up like no-face. Or dressing up in fishnets and a blonde wig. Or wearing your underwear over your pants. Or wearing a bustier and bikini briefs.

Batman wears his dark underwear over his pants too.

[NickGuy]

Bruce Wayne pulls batman costume on for the first time, looks in the mirror

Batman: You're ****ing AWESOME.

[Jorriss]

Scientific accuracy is important.
Are you being sarcastic or serious? =( I can't tell.

[SpideyZERO]

I don't really think Bruce is that insane. He's extremely driven and a bit unstable, but far from insane

[Nefarius]

Bruce Wayne died in the alley with his parents, at that time, the personality of Batman was born and took over.

IMO,i don't see Batman as the real person and Bruce Wayne as the mask.Both Bruce Wayne the socialite and Batman the vigilante are masks.The real Bruce is the man who talks woth Alfred or a member of the bat-family.Miller introduced the whole "Batman is the real personality" in DKR.I didn't mind that theory in DKR.Besides,we had a Batman that was in his mid 50s and his mind would be in the same state as it was when he started fighting crime.

Let's not forget that Batman identity was created because Bruce wanted to inspire fear in his enemies.It works like a mind game with criminals.For a man without superpowers,fear is the key to survive facing ordinary crime and sometimes super criminals.

Batman isn't crazy,but definetely has issues.

[Sn4tcH]

I feel like it's a constant fight between Batman and Bruce. In an issue of LODK, during an early adventure, Batman asks Alfred if he was more Batman or more Bruce Wayne.

Alfred responded, "Bruce Wayne and the Bat are as different as night and day. But was that not the entire point? To do what you have decided to do... To accomplish the mission you have set, an alter ego was required... A veritable creature of darkness, to combat the even darker scourge of crime on its own terms."

Bruce then asked, "Which one is my true identity? Which is the real me and which is the alter ego."

Alfred said, "At this point sir, I should have to say both. But sir, is both a bad thing?"

[Jorriss]

Alfred said, "At this point sir, I should have to say both. But sir, is both a bad thing?"
It is definitely is both, but it's like the nature vs nurture argument, which is it more? I'd say Batman because Bruce's defining characteristics are the one's involving helping others and Batman is the biggest portion of his personality exemplifying that.

You guys seen the Batman Beyond episode, Shriek? Relevant to both questions as it involves an insane Bruce and touches on the 'who's the real identity.'

[Vakanai]

Are you being sarcastic or serious? =( I can't tell.

I like to straddle an ambiguous line between the two.

[thawrecka]

People like to call Batman crazy because it makes him sound edgy and cool, I think? I don't think he's crazy by the terms of the universe he lives in. Becoming an obsessive costumed vigilante is just something you do there.