What do you think of Cigarette/cigar smokers?

[o1pickleboy]

I recently had a conversation with my substance abuse counsilor about smoking. She was a smoker and she had the opinion that we are becoming second class citizens. With smoking in bars, at the workplace being banned. So this made me think how everyone else feels about smoking and smokers




What is your opinion of smokers?

[Chris N]

It's an unhealthy habit that doesn't even look all that appealing, as opposed to my various unhealthy habits, which are.

After somebody smokes a cigarette, their breath stinks.

People who smoke cigars are classy, though. One shouldn't compare the two.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

I think we are far superior to tofu-eating health-nazi's

As to second class citizens? Yeah.
I fly a lot and am getting really sick of the damn fishbowls.


So now,I make sure to eat lots of beans.
Yeah maybe your fragile little lungs dont have to deal with my nasty smoke, but what you do have to deal with is far more deadly.

[Serik]

Can't stand it when people light up. Thankfully the rest of society doesn't really have to deal with cig smoke on a day-to-day basis.

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy can never narrow it down enough for me:

I recently had a conversation with my substance abuse counsilor about smoking. She was a smoker and she had the opinion that we are becoming second class citizens. With smoking in bars, at the workplace being banned. So this made me think how everyone else feels about smoking and smokers




What is your opinion of smokers?

Other.

I am a smoker, and while I would probably be better off without them in the long run, I do still enjoy it.

On the other hand, I find way too many of my "fellow smokers" to be rude and sloppy individuals, throwing their butts all over and pushing their smoke on others. I do my best to not blast it onto unsuspecting passersby and I don't litter...ever. I pinch the fire off and put the butt in my pocket to dispose of later. Really, folks, have some common courtesy.

I DO have a problem with governmental pressures for private businesses to disallow the practice, though. I think if a business owner wants to allow the practice, it's their business, not the government's. That's something the marketplace will take care of.

[Slackjaws_ate_my_brain]

Personally, I'm pissed that I can't have a cigarette in a bar......Seriously, if people in said bar were THAT concerned with their health, they wouldn't be busy damaging their livers downing drink after drink.

No smoking in restaurants? Fine, i could see where smoke could bother some customers. Bars, however, are a different situation altogether.

Honestly, I was raised by smokers, and am friends with many smokers and nonsmokers. As a smoker, I'd never consider lighting up a cigarette in a nonsmoking friend's home. That said, I'd like to think that if they come to my home, they would respect my choice to smoke in my environment.

Sure, cigarettes are bad for you. That said, so is fast food, beer, junk food, eating 1 large meal a day, etc etc etc etc.

[Paradox]

Disciple_of_the_Bat is one of the ones I'm talking about:

I think we are far superior to tofu-eating health-nazi's

As to second class citizens? Yeah.
I fly a lot and am getting really sick of the damn fishbowls.


So now,I make sure to eat lots of beans.
Yeah maybe your fragile little lungs dont have to deal with my nasty smoke, but what you do have to deal with is far more deadly.

Oh, suck it up. It's one thing to be against someone telling a business they can't allow it if they want, but you really ARE forcing it on someone in a plane. That said, I wouldn't have any problem with there being "smoking" airlines. Unlikely such a thing would be economically feasible, though.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

Oh, suck it up. It's one thing to be against someone telling a business they can't allow it if they want, but you really ARE forcing it on someone in a plane. That said, I wouldn't have any problem with there being "smoking" airlines. Unlikely such a thing would be economically feasible, though.

All air on a plane is recylced and filtered and you;retelling me there couldn't be a small sealed section?
But Noooooo health nazi's have to take the whole damn plane.
And that doesn't even bring airports into it

Seriously though, you try making transatlantic flights twice a month.

[o1pickleboy]

Personally, I'm pissed that I can't have a cigarette in a bar......Seriously, if people in said bar were THAT concerned with their health, they wouldn't be busy damaging their livers downing drink after drink.

No smoking in restaurants? Fine, i could see where smoke could bother some customers. Bars, however, are a different situation altogether.

Honestly, I was raised by smokers, and am friends with many smokers and nonsmokers. As a smoker, I'd never consider lighting up a cigarette in a nonsmoking friend's home. That said, I'd like to think that if they come to my home, they would respect my choice to smoke in my environment.

Sure, cigarettes are bad for you. That said, so is fast food, beer, junk food, eating 1 large meal a day, etc etc etc etc.

My opinion is there need to be both smoking and non smoking bars. Before to many business would not restrict their business by being non smoking and no it is across the board not smoking by law.

I figure the best option is smoking license for Bars and restaurants. The number of licensees issues based on the number of smokers(26% of population smokes, 26% of the bars are smoking)

[The Confessor]

I'm a smoker and proud of it (and voted accordingly). I do plan on giving it up any time soon though, but for purely health related reasons rather than because I feel ashamed of it or some such nonsense.

Truth is, I love it! I mean, I really love it. I roll my own and I love the whole ceremony of making the cigarette first before you get to smoke it and I tell you, there is nothing better than a cigarette after sex or a really good meal.

**sigh** it's such a simple pleasure, what a damn shame it's so bad for you. :frown:



Honestly, I was raised by smokers


That's not quite as cool as having been raised by wolves or apes. Still, it's better than nothing. :wink:

[Asmith]

You haven't been able to smoke in Sydney bars for a couple of years now... but you can in somewhat open air sections... so most bars went through massive renovation and turned half of the premises into courtyards, verandas, balconies, patios and gardens... so now that's where about 3/4 of the patrons sit... though I have noticed that health Nazi are beginning to think they've the right to be snotty if someone strikes up next to them while they sit outside... twits.

[o1pickleboy]

You haven't been able to smoke in Sydney bars for a couple of years now... but you can in somewhat open air sections... so most bars went through massive renovation and turned half of the premises into courtyards, verandas, balconies, patios and gardens... so now that's where about 3/4 of the patrons sit... though I have noticed that health Nazi are beginning to think they've the right to be snotty if someone strikes up next to them while they sit outside... twits.

that is not feasible in winter time for most states

[Paradox]

If Disciple_of_the_Bat want to pay for it...:

All air on a plane is recylced and filtered and you;retelling me there couldn't be a small sealed section?

There likely could, but it would be prohibitively expensive to retrofit planes for an ever decreasing amount of their market. Hey, it sucks, I know, but I don't think we ought to be jamming our stuff down other peoples' throats, especially almost literally.

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy should note:

that is not feasible in winter time for most states

Not that, of course, that keeps us smokers from standing out in the cold.

Hey, we're junkies, what can I say? :wink:

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

There likely could, but it would be prohibitively expensive to retrofit planes for an ever decreasing amount of their market. Hey, it sucks, I know, but I don't think we ought to be jamming our stuff down other peoples' throats, especially almost literally.

I disagree, but since the HN's made ita federal law, well never know.
I mean Damn, Id even accept a smoking bathroom on the plane.

[o1pickleboy]

Not that, of course, that keeps us smokers from standing out in the cold.

Hey, we're junkies, what can I say? :wink:

yeah and we are bitching with every drag too.

[howyadoin]

I recently had a conversation with my substance abuse counsilor about smoking. She was a smoker and she had the opinion that we are becoming second class citizens. Seems to me that someone with such a huge persecution complex would be a sorry fuckin' excuse for a substance abuse counsellor.

[ninja Ross]

Smoking has become a taboo thing because of anti smokers being as loud as they can. It's not fair, we can't shout so loud!

But smoking bans are passed without public vote and we're forced outside. It annoys me. If you don't like smokers, go somewhere else.

I appreciate that people don't like smoke and thatit is unhealthy but if we had smoking rooms again, it wouldn't be an issue!

[o1pickleboy]

Seems to me that someone with such a huge persecution complex would be a sorry fuckin' excuse for a substance abuse counsellor.

Lets say my opinion of her is less than favorable. Our first session and it is all about her already

[DrewTheXenocide]

All air on a plane is recylced and filtered and you;retelling me there couldn't be a small sealed section?
But Noooooo health nazi's have to take the whole damn plane.
And that doesn't even bring airports into it

Seriously though, you try making transatlantic flights twice a month.

That's stupid. I'm a smoker and I would hate to be on a plane where they allowed smoking. I hate it when my room smells like cigarette smoke. It's gross.

[ninja Ross]

That's stupid. I'm a smoker and I would hate to be on a plane where they allowed smoking. I hate it when my room smells like cigarette smoke. It's gross.

Planes are understandable but pubs and the like are not. Also, places like airports should have smoking rooms. Waiting makes people tense.

[Asmith]

That's stupid. I'm a smoker and I would hate to be on a plane where they allowed smoking. I hate it when my room smells like cigarette smoke. It's gross.

With an attitude like that, have you ever considered that smoking may just not be for you...?

[Asmith]

Planes are understandable but pubs and the like are not. Also, places like airports should have smoking rooms. Waiting makes people tense.

Hospitals too!

[ninja Ross]

Hospitals too!

Yeah! We get our own ward (more or less) so we should be able to smoke in it!

[howyadoin]

Lets say my opinion of her is less than favorable. Our first session and it is all about her alreadyNo kidding. Telling someone who's in for substance abuse counselling that the government is out to get them seems pretty irresponsible.

Not to mention fuckin' loony.

[DrewTheXenocide]

Planes are understandable but pubs and the like are not. Also, places like airports should have smoking rooms. Waiting makes people tense.

Most of the pubs I've been to have figured out ways to make the outdoor smoking areas cozy for smokers, which I'm down with. I don't even mind going outside for airports. Some airports are silly about it, though, making the smoking area someplace hard to find.

With an attitude like that, have you ever considered that smoking may just not be for you...?

Probably. Too bad I enjoy it too much.

[o1pickleboy]

No kidding. Telling someone who's in for substance abuse counselling that the government is out to get them seems pretty irresponsible.

Not to mention fuckin' loony.

Makes me wonder if she would agree if I said we need to talk about this over a few drinks.

[ninja Ross]

Most of the pubs I've been to have figured out ways to make the outdoor smoking areas cozy for smokers, which I'm down with. I don't even mind going outside for airports. Some airports are silly about it, though, making the smoking area someplace hard to find.
\
I haven't been to a single pub that has a nice smoking shelter. We have to block the doors and stuff, staying close for heat!

[howyadoin]

Makes me wonder if she would agree if I said we need to talk about this over a few drinks.And maybe some unprotected sex?

[o1pickleboy]

And maybe some unprotected sex?

Way to old for me, but she has a hot daughter from what she said. Hmmmm is it wrong to bang your sub abuse counselor's daughter?

[Paradox]

Asmith needs to look at both sides:

With an attitude like that, have you ever considered that smoking may just not be for you...?

To be fair, what's coming off the end smells worse than what you're sucking into your lungs (although I'd be hard pressed to give a scientific reason). Hell, I've been smoking for 25 years, and I still don't want someone smoking around me when I'm eating, for example.

[Paradox]

ninja Ross should always look for the money:

Also, places like airports should have smoking rooms. Waiting makes people tense.

They don't want you to smoke. They want you to go into one of their overpriced restaurants and eat and drink. :wink:

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy wants to know:

Way to old for me, but she has a hot daughter from what she said. Hmmmm is it wrong to bang your sub abuse counselor's daughter?

I'm sure there's a way to turn it into a positive political statement. :biggrin:

[howyadoin]

I'm sure there's a way to turn it into a positive political statement. :biggrin:If she had a son, I guess we could say "stick it to the man."

[The Black Guardian]

Smokers have never bothered me, despite growing up with asthma. I even smoked (a pack a day) for 27 years, during which time my asthma went into remission.

I'm now 6 months, 17 days clear of nicotine (and whatever else is in those things), and cigarette smoke still doesn't bother me. I refuse to be one of those Nazi quitters that ruins other people's fun.
Also, places like airports should have smoking rooms.
Eesh... I think it was the Atlanta airport I was in (about a decade ago)... They had smoking rooms. The room was a 10' x 10' (or maybe 15') glass-enclosed cell with a single air vent and seating for about 2 dozen (but of course, there were more people in it). The air quality was so bad that it was hard to see through to the other side of the room.

[Punchy]

my opinion?

if she smokes, she pokes!

harharharharharrr

[Shellhead]

The effects of second-hand smoke are well-documented. If smokers want to slowly kill themselves, that's their choice. But if they think that their selfish habits should entitle them to endanger everyone else, that sucks. Smokers could all switch to chewing tobacco. That way, they could still get their nicotine fix, but nobody else would suffer.

For those of you who do smoke, you really should consider quitting. I know it isn't easy. My dad started smoking when he was 15, and wasn't able to quit until three weeks before he died of lung cancer, at age 65. And even then, he was only able to quit because the cancer finally made the cigarettes taste horrible. He spent most of 2008 dying slowly and miserably, and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. On his last day, he couldn't even speak at all, just gasped for breath for 17 more hours.

About one third of my friends smoke. If approached in a non-confrontational manner, all of them will admit that they want to quit, though most have no immediate plans to do so.

[Asmith]

The effects of second-hand smoke are well-documented. If smokers want to slowly kill themselves, that's their choice. But if they think that their selfish habits should entitle them to endanger everyone else, that sucks. Smokers could all switch to chewing tobacco. That way, they could still get their nicotine fix, but nobody else would suffer.



Yes, the effects of second hand smoke are well documented... and harmful effects are almost non-existent. Pretty much harmless and no danger for others.

The WHO report is fairly clear on this... sadly however it is the same WHO report that is constently used to bolster the second hand smoke arguement... what it comes down to is that people who don't smoke also seem to not be able to understand statistical data... Your just sprouting the puppet dogma of the anti-smoking lobby.

[The Black Guardian]

Yes, the effects of second hand smoke are well-documented, and most studies show no increase in risk. It's only through magical statistic analysis and propaganda that the anti-smoking agendists have pushed their platform. So bad is it that the WHO (big anti-smoking agendists) even tried to bury their study because they didn't like the results. The WHO study even suggested that children of smokers had a 22% decrease in risk of lung cancer.

[MarvelKnight]

I grew up with family members that smoked. I frackin' hate smokers, especially, when they light up whenever and wherever they want without regard for those around them. Why do I have leave when a smoker refuses to be civil?

[Paradox]

Shellhead preaches:

The effects of second-hand smoke are well-documented. If smokers want to slowly kill themselves, that's their choice. But if they think that their selfish habits should entitle them to endanger everyone else, that sucks.

Just keep in mind that's documented for people that are immersed in it all the time. Smokers' children, bar staff, etc. etc. It's not endangering the health of that restaurant patron two tables over from me in the least. They get far more sympathy from me complaining that it stinks than imagining that I'm doing something to their health.

Smokers could all switch to chewing tobacco. That way, they could still get their nicotine fix, but nobody else would suffer.

Smoking isn't all about nicotine. A large part of it is nervous hands and an oral fixation. Chewing tobacco has no relationship to smoking besides the nicotine. Most smokers find it as disgusting as non-smokers find smoking.


For those of you who do smoke, you really should consider quitting.

Nah, fuck it (for me, anyway). I've got no reason to live to be old(er). Let it kill me. Something's going to someday, anyway.

[Asmith]

I grew up with family members that smoked. I frackin' hate smokers, especially, when they light up whenever and wherever they want without regard for those around them. Why do I have leave when a smoker refuses to be civil?

Completely unconnected to your post and bearing no relationship to what you've said, but do you know what I hate? Trying to enjoy a lovely satisfying smoke, only to find myself having to share the table with a melodramatic, judgemental, self-centred prat... they're always so damn uncivilised. It's a bloody mercy for all when they make such a fuss that they finally just leave...

...those are the type of people that make me wish second hand smoke was harmful...

[Asmith]

Just keep in mind that's documented for people that are immersed in it all the time.

Yep, and the documentation says it's not harmful...

The anti-smoking lobby has some of the ballsiest lies and most effective propoganda in history.

[Paradox]

Asmith is wrong:

Yep, and the documentation says it's not harmful...

The anti-smoking lobby has some of the ballsiest lies and most effective propoganda in history.

While I don't disagree, I have seen several independent studies that convinced me....oh, a year or so ago...on these boards. I wish I could remember where that thread is, but I'm too lazy to look. That said, the anti-smoking lobby's claims are greatly exaggerated if nothing else. But there's been enough people having respiratory ailments from working in smoking bars that I won't say it's harmless (I mean, it's friggin' smoke in your lungs. That's never "harmless"). Is it a guaranteed cancer? Oh, fuck no.

EDIT: Even Penn and Teller had to back off some of their earlier statements on the subject, IIRC.

[J. Robb]

The ban on public smoking has been a huge improvement in quality of life. No more smoke floating over to your table in a restaurant, no more stench of smoke on your clothes when you come home from a bar, no more passing through clouds of smoke when you enter or exit a building (they have to stay five metres away.)

Now that I don't pass through smoke so often, I can really notice how gross it is when I do. I can't believe we put up with it for as long as we did.

[Paradox]

Don't grab too high a horse, there. That "we" used to be the smokers. It's only the last twenty years or so that it became such a public issue.

[Acecool]

I don't hate smokers as a rule, but when they park their asses out side my window at night and smoke, it really pisses me off.

First: It wakes me up and give me a head ache.

Second: I have a baby in our room, and i don't care to have her breathing that crap.

Third: I have to shut the window and the room get really uncomfortably hot soon after in which case I can't sleep.

I am of the opinion that you can do what ever the hell you want as long as it doesn't infringe on mine or anyone's rights.

Therefore if you are going to be smoking, you are choosing to do so, no one is forcing you, and therefore you have to accept that you have to go outside the hell away from me. I don't give a crap if it is raining outside, all choices have consequences. I shouldn't have to pay for your choice.

Do I hate smokers? No, but they made that choice.

[Acecool]

Personally, I'm pissed that I can't have a cigarette in a bar......Seriously, if people in said bar were THAT concerned with their health, they wouldn't be busy damaging their livers downing drink after drink.

No smoking in restaurants? Fine, i could see where smoke could bother some customers. Bars, however, are a different situation altogether.

Honestly, I was raised by smokers, and am friends with many smokers and nonsmokers. As a smoker, I'd never consider lighting up a cigarette in a nonsmoking friend's home. That said, I'd like to think that if they come to my home, they would respect my choice to smoke in my environment.

Sure, cigarettes are bad for you. That said, so is fast food, beer, junk food, eating 1 large meal a day, etc etc etc etc.

The difference though is that if you choose to drink a beer, my liver isn't going to be effected one way or the other. If you choose to eat a hamburger, my waist line isn't going to suffer. Why should I not be able to go into a bar if I don't like smoking just because you want to light up?

However, I do think that perhaps there should should be an alternative. In other words there should be zoned smoking bars, in which case if you want to go to a bar, you go to one where it is legal and everyone accepts that, smoker or not.

I can understand that some people do want to smoke while they drink. There should be the option, but there also needs to be the option to go to a bar and not have to inhale smoke if you don't want to.

[Minkie]

Smoking isn't all about nicotine. A large part of it is nervous hands and an oral fixation.

You could take up knitting and sucking on tootsie roll pops.

I've got no reason to live to be old(er). Let it kill me. Something's going to someday, anyway.

I'd miss you.

[Paradox]

Acecool has it:

I am of the opinion that you can do what ever the hell you want as long as it doesn't infringe on mine or anyone's rights.

Your right to throw a punch ends at my nose. Same goes for smoking, I figure.

[Paradox]

Acecool notes:

The difference though is that if you choose to drink a beer, my liver isn't going to be effected one way or the other. If you choose to eat a hamburger, my waist line isn't going to suffer. Why should I not be able to go into a bar if I don't like smoking just because you want to light up?

However, I do think that perhaps there should should be an alternative. In other words there should be zoned smoking bars, in which case if you want to go to a bar, you go to one where it is legal and everyone accepts that, smoker or not.

I can understand that some people do want to smoke while they drink. There should be the option, but there also needs to be the option to go to a bar and not have to inhale smoke if you don't want to.

Here in Michigan, they haven't gotten draconian enough to stop it in bars yet. I'm sure they eventually will, but most don't like that. I like leaving it up to the owner. The market decides that, and most of the non-smoking bars around here don't do enough business to stay afloat.

C'mon, government, ya gotta leave us SOMETHIN'!

[Paradox]

Here's the hypocrisy that bugs me.

"Oh, smoking is horribly bad for you! And you're infringing on other people's rights! We're only going to allow you to do it in this 5' by 5' square, and you have to wear this badge with stained fingers on it!" - the government

Then why don't you outlaw it entirely?

"Oh, we don't want to take people's rights away! People don't want Big Brother looking over their shoulder!"

:confused: :confused:

All that tobacco lobby money doesn't hurt, either, right?

[Acecool]

Here in Michigan, they haven't gotten draconian enough to stop it in bars yet. I'm sure they eventually will, but most don't like that. I like leaving it up to the owner. The market decides that, and most of the non-smoking bars around here don't do enough business to stay afloat.

C'mon, government, ya gotta leave us SOMETHIN'!

Yeah, the market will solve except for when a smoker walks into a non smoking bar and lights up.

The way I see it, if there is zoning of some type, then patrons will have choices and know what they are getting into. Plus there is some sort of legal repercussion if a smoker lights up in a non smoking bar other than he gets thrown out.

[Paradox]

Acecool is fuddling my head:

Yeah, the market will solve except for when a smoker walks into a non smoking bar and lights up.

I'm confused as to your point. People in any non-smoking establishment aren't allowed to smoke. They're made to take it outside.

The way I see it, if there is zoning of some type, then patrons will have choices and know what they are getting into. Plus there is some sort of legal repercussion if a smoker lights up in a non smoking bar other than he gets thrown out.

Both those things are totally unnecessary. Non-smoking establishments are clearly labeled on the door and what repercussion is necessary other than being shown the door? That 15 seconds of smoke isn't going to do anything to anyone.

Because, believe me, they're ON IT if someone lights up.

[Acecool]

Your right to throw a punch ends at my nose. Same goes for smoking, I figure.

Exactly, you are the reason I don't hate smokers. Your right to smoke ends at the beginning of my oxygen supply.

On a side note, about the dying. It is one thing if you died quickly, but smoking is one that can leave you alive long enough to wish you were dead. No preaching or anything, I just had a friend who died of respiratory problems, and it was not fun to watch it happen so slowly. I wish you well.

Hopefully you'll get hit by that mythical bus everyone seems to be afraid of right after you are diagnosed with what ever would have killed you. :)

[Sean Whitmore]

I like leaving it up to the owner. The market decides that, and most of the non-smoking bars around here don't do enough business to stay afloat.

I find a lot of "let the market decide" arguments to be full of shit, but that makes perfect sense to me.


SEAN

[Acecool]

I'm confused as to your point. People in any non-smoking establishment aren't allowed to smoke. They're made to take it outside.



Both those things are totally unnecessary. Non-smoking establishments are clearly labeled on the door and what repercussion is necessary other than being shown the door? That 15 seconds of smoke isn't going to do anything to anyone.

Because, believe me, they're ON IT if someone lights up.

Perhaps. I just like the idea of neatness, so that you know where you stand and can navigate your way around.

[Acecool]

Here's the hypocrisy that bugs me.

"Oh, smoking is horribly bad for you! And you're infringing on other people's rights! We're only going to allow you to do it in this 5' by 5' square, and you have to wear this badge with stained fingers on it!" - the government

Then why don't you outlaw it entirely?

"Oh, we don't want to take people's rights away! People don't want Big Brother looking over their shoulder!"

:confused: :confused:

All that tobacco lobby money doesn't hurt, either, right?

Totally hypocritical. Especially since there is some much else that is illegal, that doesn't hurt you half as much.

[Paradox]

Acecool thinks I don't think ahead:

On a side note, about the dying. It is one thing if you died quickly, but smoking is one that can leave you alive long enough to wish you were dead.

Not me, trust me on this one.

[StoneGold]

Lex Luthor for Marlboro.

http://www.euro-cig.com/gal_images/20060405102457.jpg

Yeah, I know, look closely and you can see some hair, but still.

[Sean Whitmore]

Diabolical. And Superman can't legally touch him, either.


SEAN

[Paradox]

Sean Whitmore sees the reality:

I find a lot of "let the market decide" arguments to be full of shit, but that makes perfect sense to me.

I do, too, but mostly because the majority of the "let the market decide" arguments are predicated on some idea of mythical corporate altruism. This one is straight forward. If it's in the best financial interest to be non-smoking, they will. It's as simple as that.

Case in point. A new hotel opened across from us that's all non-smoking rooms. We get ALL the smoking rooms business that they might have gotten. They're not changing, but we do outdo them in rooms sold every night. We'll see how it goes.

Somehow people got the idea that no one (or very very few) people smoke any more. While the numbers have gone down, I'm pretty sure it's not just me and a few others propping up a multi-billion dollar industry. :wink:

[Paradox]

Acecool is gonna make me go here:

Perhaps. I just like the idea of neatness, so that you know where you stand and can navigate your way around.

You know who else wanted certain people partitioned off into certain areas of the city? :tongue:

[Sean Whitmore]

Somehow people got the idea that no one (or very very few) people smoke any more. While the numbers have gone down, I'm pretty sure it's not just me and a few others propping up a multi-billion dollar industry. :wink:

I dunno, there's a good chance my dad alone is good for one of those billions.


SEAN

[o1pickleboy]

Here in Michigan, they haven't gotten draconian enough to stop it in bars yet. I'm sure they eventually will, but most don't like that. I like leaving it up to the owner. The market decides that, and most of the non-smoking bars around here don't do enough business to stay afloat.

C'mon, government, ya gotta leave us SOMETHIN'!

They have been trying the pass few years and the bill keeps getting killed in the State Senate(the only time I actually liked have a republican branch of government). I have heard that it passed this last time

[Acecool]

You know who else wanted certain people partitioned off into certain areas of the city? :tongue:

Holy crap, I am a fascist.

Actually, what I really like is guaranteed options. Maybe that is why I like the public option. I like options. Imagine that. :)

[Minkie]

Why did spittoons and the type of tobacco use associated with them vanish almost completely from public life? What sort of pressure brought that about? I suspect in another 20 years smoking will seem just as quaint.

You see all those moody old black-and-whites of actors, writers, artists--male and female--smoking. I suppose it once evoked a sense of sophistication or glamour. Now it just seems odd. Simone Signoret was once described as looking "passionate" when she smoked. Setting on fire a tube of dried leaves and sucking on it? There's no denying that Bette Davis could dramatically punctuate her sentences with inhalations and exhalations of smoke.

But now when I think of smoking I picture that teenaged babysitter in Florida who is implicated in the disappearance of her boyfriend's baby. She looks... tacky... as she sashays in front of the news camera puffing with every step. That has become my perception of it.

Also, there are plenty of unpleasant ways short of killing you that smoking can injure you. How about a stroke with consequent partial paralysis or loss of speech? Or debilitating but not quite fatal respiratory problems? Or the long slow and painful slide toward death accompanied by emphysema? Then there's what happened to me...

I smoked for 20 years and quit cold turkey when I had surgery for a hernia that my doctor said was likely caused by my convulsive coughing. He said that I'd almost certainly have another if I continued to smoke. That was 10 years ago. If I'm at a party and people are smoking, I may bum a cigarette or three, and it always amuses people who have never seen me smoke. It just looks odd to them. And I won't smoke again unless I go to another party where people are smoking. To illustrate specifically, I've had three cigarettes this year, all on one night last March.

[The Black Guardian]

While I don't disagree, I have seen several independent studies that convinced me....oh, a year or so ago...on these boards. I wish I could remember where that thread is, but I'm too lazy to look. That said, the anti-smoking lobby's claims are greatly exaggerated if nothing else. But there's been enough people having respiratory ailments from working in smoking bars that I won't say it's harmless (I mean, it's friggin' smoke in your lungs. That's never "harmless"). Is it a guaranteed cancer? Oh, fuck no.

EDIT: Even Penn and Teller had to back off some of their earlier statements on the subject, IIRC.
Psychosomatic. Even people working in such environments only inhale the equivalent of 6 cigarettes per year.

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy had me check:

They have been trying the pass few years and the bill keeps getting killed in the State Senate(the only time I actually liked have a republican branch of government). I have heard that it passed this last time

I think you may have heard wrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States#.C2.A0Mi chigan). It looks as if they just dropped it because they have bigger things to worry about.

[o1pickleboy]

I think you may have heard wrong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States#.C2.A0Mi chigan). It looks as if they just dropped it because they have bigger things to worry about.

good to hear the health nazis haven't won here


yet

[Acecool]

Psychosomatic. Even people working in such environments only inhale the equivalent of 6 cigarettes per year.

I remember when i was 15 or so, my uncle found a hurt squirrel and we were taking it to the local animal control or something. It was 15 years ago. In the car he opened the window and started puffing on a pipe.

I liked the smell of the pipe, and I still like the smell of the pipe, however it made be cough uncontrollably. I was all red faced, and tearing and such. My uncle realized after a bit that I was coughing because of his pipe and put it out.

I still cough around cigarette smoke and still get head aches.

The point is, unhealthy or not, I still don't like getting head aches or coughing up a lung.

[Paradox]

The Black Guardian tries:

Psychosomatic. Even people working in such environments only inhale the equivalent of 6 cigarettes per year.

While I see your point, I'm pretty sure medically diagnosed respiratory ailments aren't psychosomatic. :wink: And I'm sure it's variable. Trust me I've been in bars where it's likely the staff is getting at least 6 cigarettes a night, not a year.

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy notes:

good to hear the health nazis have won here


yet

The politicians here are reluctant because businesses don't like it.

Plus poor people smoke more than rich, and guess what we are a whole state full of. :biggrin:

[o1pickleboy]

While I see your point, I'm pretty sure medically diagnosed respiratory ailments aren't psychosomatic. :wink: And I'm sure it's variable. Trust me I've been in bars where it's likely the staff is getting at least 6 cigarettes a night, not a year.

That kindof only matter if the staff is none smoking. I would say I have only met one or two non smoking bartenders and servers

[o1pickleboy]

The politicians here are reluctant because businesses don't like it.

Plus poor people smoke more than rich, and guess what we are a whole state full of. :biggrin:

Yet many states and countries have passed the ban already instead of working on a simple compromise

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy sees no sympathy:

Yet many states and country have passed the ban already instead of working on a simple compromise

Well, we are the Industrial North, not Froofy Yuppie Colorado. We don't cotton ta people messin' with our bars! :mad:

We'll sic the Militia on ya, ya damned revenuer!!!

[Tages]

If smokers want to slowly kill themselves, that's their choice. But if they think that their selfish habits should entitle them to endanger everyone else, that sucks.

I have no idea what you mean by use of the term "selfish" here.

I know what happened to your dad and I'm really sorry about that. But a lot of people really like smoking and not just for the nicotine fix; just like with alcohol, food, and sex, it's an easy thing to self-medicate with.

[Laurence]

I've been friends with smokers more or less all my life. I used to smoke the occasional cigar as well. So, naturally, I opposed the smoking ban here in the UK, because I didn't want to have to go outside to talk to my mates, and I thought the knock-on effect it would have on pubs

However, I'm sort of torn on this issue now, owing to my relatively recent health problems. Smoke, even second hand, can be damaging to me to the point where I've been threatened with operations. And I'm trying not to be wholly selfish on this issue, but I tend to not mind it if my friends pop outside the door for a ciggie any more. Terrible, I know.

[Pól Rua]

Both my parents smoked. Both resented it and tried on multiple occasions to quit, but found it impossible.
And they had it bad. As a kid, I refused to buy cigarettes for them (it was back in the 70's, where nobody blinked an eye at that sort of thing) and man, would it wind 'em up.
They'd be even tempered about most things, but they had it bad, and that got 'em pretty fired up.

So yeah, I've always found it a pretty repulsive habit.

That said, I appreciate that giving up is fucking hard, and that people have the right to do what they want as long as they're not being douchebags about it.

So there ya go. It doesn't bug me. Just don't blow smoke in my face and leave me alone while I'm eating and we're cool.

Oddly enough though, I love the aroma of pot smoke. I don't smoke pot - basically growing up with my parents, I have a pretty serious aversion to smoking - but I do love the smell.
Go figure.

[Paradox]

Eh, I hate coffee, but I love the smell. The nose and the mouth are different organs.

Remember that at dinner, Pol. Another "banana incident" and they'll be looking at you funny in the ER again. :wink:

[Pól Rua]

Eh, I hate coffee, but I love the smell. The nose and the mouth are different organs.

Remember that at dinner, Pol. Another "banana incident" and they'll be looking at you funny in the ER again. :wink:

I have bought a fake moustache and an attractive hat.
Next time, disguise!

[o1pickleboy]

Both my parents smoked. Both resented it and tried on multiple occasions to quit, but found it impossible.

That probably is because the tobacco industry adds three time more nicotine than is in the plant naturally. The anti smoking lobby wants to reduce smoking I suggest the work on the amount of addictive chemical put in the cigarette

[Pól Rua]

That probably is because the tobacco industry adds three time more nicotine than is in the plant naturally. The anti smoking lobby wants to reduce smoking I suggest the work on the amount of addictive chemical put in the cigarette

Absolutely. I think tobacco companies are Satan's fuckin' minions.

[Sean Whitmore]

That probably is because the tobacco industry adds three time more nicotine than is in the plant naturally. The anti smoking lobby wants to reduce smoking I suggest the work on the amount of addictive chemical put in the cigarette

Aren't they doing that?

I seem to remember one of those soul-chillingly awful Truth.com commercials putting on some horrendous skit that had to do with lying about the additives in cigarettes.


SEAN

[Pól Rua]

Aren't they doing that?

I seem to remember one of those soul-chillingly awful Truth.com commercials putting on some horrendous skit that had to do with lying about the additives in cigarettes.


SEAN

What the commercials the tobacco industry are funding?
Is it any wonder they're so fuck-awful?

[Sean Whitmore]

What the commercials the tobacco industry are funding?
Is it any wonder they're so fuck-awful?

It's diabolical, is what it is. They make me want to get a tracheotomy so I can smoke three cigarettes at the same time.


SEAN

[o1pickleboy]

Aren't they doing that?

I seem to remember one of those soul-chillingly awful Truth.com commercials putting on some horrendous skit that had to do with lying about the additives in cigarettes.SEAN

Well apparently their not working hard enough on it. Maybe it they used some of that lobbying saved for bans in bars. They could make some headway

[Asmith]

Well apparently their not working hard enough on it. Maybe it they used some of that lobbying saved for bans in bars. They could make some leeway

Good idea. Though I think you mean 'headway'. 'Leeway' would be motion from side to side but not indicitive of moving forward.

[o1pickleboy]

Good idea. Though I think you mean 'headway'. 'Leeway' would be motion from side to side but not indicitive of moving forward.

dam grammer nazis







yes I know I spelled both of them wrong.
Damn grammar nazis

[Asmith]

dam grammer nazis







yes I know I spelled both of them wrong.
Damn grammar nazis

Capital 'N' for Nazi... Full-stops are, as always, just a matter of stylistic choice.

[o1pickleboy]

Capital 'N' for Nazi... Full-stops are, as always, just a matter of stylistic choice.

I refuse to capitalizes them like they are important

[i_mmmchocolate]

What is your opinion of smokers?
Up until high school, my opinion of them was very low. I was asthmatic as a kid. Between the age of 5-6, I was hospitalized three times for it. Many of my father's siblings smoked and would have get-togethers in apartments-- it got extremely smokey. When they visited, they would light up. When I was hospitalized the third time, my mother had enough and instituted a "no smoke policy" in our apartment and made it clear that she wasn't going to take me to any of these get-togethers. She said family was invited over to our place, so long as no one smoked during their time there. Apparently these relatives thought that not being allowed to smoke for 2-3 hours when they visited their niece was ridiculous-- l have so few memories with my dad's family because of this. Literally, NO ONE came to visit us from that side. I can only think of one maybe two times.

Now? I think it's a dirty habit, but I really don't care if people do it-- as long as they do it away from me. Probably why all of my friends/acquaintances/past dates are non-smokers.

[Sean Whitmore]

I refuse to capitalizes them like they are important

I feel the same way about the new york mets.


SEAN

[jesse_custer]

Apparently, I'm supposed to either hate myself or be a proud douchebag.

People who smoke cigars are classy, though. One shouldn't compare the two.

George Carlin had a bone to pick with cigar smoking:

Haven't we had enough of this cigar-smoking shit in this country? When are these fat, arrogant, overpaid, overfed, overpampered, overpriviledged, overindulged business criminal asshole cocksuckers going to put out their cigars and move along to their next abomination? White, pussy businessmen sucking on a big, brown dick. That's all it is. That's all it ever was. A big, brown dick. Freud said sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Oh, yeah? Well sometimes it's a big, brown dick with a white collar business criminal asshole sucking on the wet end of it. But the news isn't all bad for me, you know the good part? Cancer of the mouth. Good, fuck 'em. It's an attractive disease, it goes good with a cell phone. So light up, suspender man, and suck that smoke deep down into your empty suit and blow it out your asshole, you fucking cocksucker!

[Shellhead]

I have no idea what you mean by use of the term "selfish" here.

I know what happened to your dad and I'm really sorry about that. But a lot of people really like smoking and not just for the nicotine fix; just like with alcohol, food, and sex, it's an easy thing to self-medicate with.

I realize that the term "selfish" sounds harsh, but I can't think of a more appropriate term when somebody values personal pleasure over the safety of everyone around him.

[jesse_custer]

I just find it amazing that people think secondhand cigarette smoke is killing them when there are millions and millions of vehicles emitting shit everywhere.

At the very least, secondhand smoking studies need to control for other factors, but what are you supposed to do? Tell everyone in an area to stop driving?

[Shellhead]

Ever been in a house or apartment where one of the occupants smokes a lot? The windows tend to have this dingy film on them. Are we supposed to believe that smoke is capable of affecting windows but not non-smokers?

[jesse_custer]

You're supposed to believe whatever science tells you.

And science that doesn't control for other factors isn't science.

[Asmith]

I realize that the term "selfish" sounds harsh, but I can't think of a more appropriate term when somebody values personal pleasure over the safety of everyone around him.

I'd agree with that statement, but only if those smoking around you were first dousing you with pertrol...

[Tadhg]

I'd agree with that statement, but only if those smoking around you were first dousing you with pertrol...

What if the smokers are using the people around them as ashtrays?

[Nick Soapdish]

Not that, of course, that keeps us smokers from standing out in the cold.

Hey, we're junkies, what can I say? :wink:

I can relate. I've stood out in the rain to stand away from the smokers at the bus stop.

Here's the hypocrisy that bugs me.

"Oh, smoking is horribly bad for you! And you're infringing on other people's rights! We're only going to allow you to do it in this 5' by 5' square, and you have to wear this badge with stained fingers on it!" - the government

Then why don't you outlaw it entirely?

"Oh, we don't want to take people's rights away! People don't want Big Brother looking over their shoulder!"

:confused: :confused:

All that tobacco lobby money doesn't hurt, either, right?

I don't think it's just hypocrisy. I don't like smoking and don't want it done in public places - and I'd even extend that to outdoors. But I don't think that making it illegal will fix the problem. It'll just drive the market underground. Plus, to a certain extent, I do support people's right to be personally self-destructive although it's conflicting more and more with my views on health care.

I do, too, but mostly because the majority of the "let the market decide" arguments are predicated on some idea of mythical corporate altruism. This one is straight forward. If it's in the best financial interest to be non-smoking, they will. It's as simple as that.

Case in point. A new hotel opened across from us that's all non-smoking rooms. We get ALL the smoking rooms business that they might have gotten. They're not changing, but we do outdo them in rooms sold every night. We'll see how it goes.

Somehow people got the idea that no one (or very very few) people smoke any more. While the numbers have gone down, I'm pretty sure it's not just me and a few others propping up a multi-billion dollar industry. :wink:

There's also a lot of inertia.

When they used to allow smoking inside public places in Florida, a local mall used to have about half of its food court seating devoted to smokers. That half would be almost completely empty with some tables taken on the fringe and a few tables taken in the middle by smokers. But the section remained until the law changed. Restaurant owners fought tooth and nail to avoid the smoking ban because it would kill business, but after it happened, business generally got better. There's just a lot of inertia. Now, some restaurants have opened up smoking patios while others are specifically banning smoking in outside sections. I ate at a restaurant with a smoking porch once. Smoke was constantly getting sucked in when they opened the door for the restaurant that had that smoking porch. OTOH, my sister's restaurant has a smoking porch so I have mixed feelings on the idea. I guess I see it as a temporary solution.

[Michael P]

I would love it if, just once, a smoker standing next to me and talking to someone sitting across the table from me would keep their cigarette in the hand opposite my face.

[Asmith]

What if the smokers are using the people around them as ashtrays?
Well that's just fuckin' sexy!

I can relate. I've stood out in the rain to stand away from the smokers at the bus stop.


Was that so they wouldn't be able to see your tears...?

[jesse_custer]

Question for non-smokers: Have you ever asked a smoker to try to keep cigarette smoke away from you (Michael P. brings up a good example)? Was the smoker compliant?

Personally, I'll modify my smoking to help someone out.

[Nick Soapdish]

I just find it amazing that people think secondhand cigarette smoke is killing them when there are millions and millions of vehicles emitting shit everywhere.

At the very least, secondhand smoking studies need to control for other factors, but what are you supposed to do? Tell everyone in an area to stop driving?

I think that both are bad, but I've found very few people that argue that vehicle emissions aren't bad for you.

The control is that everybody is exposed to the vehicle emissions, but only some are exposed to secondhand smoke.

[Nick Soapdish]

Was that so they wouldn't be able to see your tears...?

No, it's so I wouldn't cough until I threw up - and then keep coughing. Cigarette smoke doesn't effect my eyes unless it's really concentrated (and by then, I have other issues).

Question for non-smokers: Have you ever asked a smoker to try to keep cigarette smoke away from you (Michael P. brings up a good example)? Was the smoker compliant?

Personally, I'll modify my smoking to help someone out.

I'll ask them if I know them and almost everybody that knows me does it already.

I've tried asking people that I don't know and they're almost always not helpful. A lot of those times are me asking them to put it out because they're in a non-smoking section (see that sign you're standing next to?). Usually, it's just easier to leave.

[i_mmmchocolate]

Actually, I take that back. There are certain instances that I do care if people do it. Nothing makes me angrier than seeing a parent smoking a cigarette with a newborn/child in their arms/car/etc.

I'm a pretty mellow person, few things anger me-- that's one of them.

[PiratesPensSteelers]

Personally, I hate being around smoke.

In a car I can't stand it because I can't breath. In a bar restaurant I hate it because chances are I'll be in the same space as you for an extended period of time and I leave smelling like shit because of your sick habit.

If we are outside just keep your stream out of my face and we are good.

[crazyredlady]

I actually had an incident at work a few months ago that I just thought of.

My boss had bought the remaining merchandise from a store that was closing and organised most of us to go pack it up and bring it to her shop. It sounded like I was going to have to ride with someone else, so I begged and pleaded with her to let me drive my own car. Turned out we loaded down my car with a ton of stuff (a 2000 Taurus sedan has quite the capacity) and I got to drive. It wasn't until much later that I admitted to my boss that I can't stand cigarette smoke (have allergies to it too) and every single last one of the other drivers smoked.

I call it a win-win situation there

[Gary_B]

Actually, I take that back. There are certain instances that I do care if people do it. Nothing makes me angrier than seeing a parent smoking a cigarette with a newborn/child in their arms/car/etc.

I'm a pretty mellow person, few things anger me-- that's one of them.

Restrictions on where people can smoke have been getting phased in for several years here in British Columbia. They plan to ban smoking in cars if children are present.

I smoked for about ten years. Even though I quit twenty years ago, I still see the odd smoker that makes it look so satisfying. The rest of the time I love all of the restrictions that have been put on smoking in public places.

When public smoking bans were being introduced here the bar and restaurant owners were all doomsday about it. Smoking bans were introduced in urban areas before they were in rural areas and that definitely created a situation where people were driving around to find places that would still accommodate smoking. Once the laws were universal the bars did just fine.

Much of the rationale for restricting smoking in public places comes from the government here trying to make smoking less attractive to people. It's even tied up in the fact that we have socialized public health care. This is from a BC Government web site :

Tobacco-related illness is the leading cause of preventable death in BC. Tobacco use causes up to 6,000 deaths in BC each year. Smoking kills more people in BC than all other drugs, motor vehicle collisions, murder, suicide and HIV/AIDS combined.

Fewer people smoking saves the health care system dollars. Stores aren't even allowed to display cigarettes openly any more. They are all behind a black cover.

I'm amazed at how quickly I got used to the public smoking bans. I always opted to eat in the non-smoking part of restaurants, but it is far nicer to eat in a smoke-free one. I see the odd person get up and go outside for a smoke, but most people don't seem to bother. Bars are another story. There is always a crowd outside smoking, but then they come back inside and make merry. When I go to a bar with friends who smoke they just do it, usually in groups or pairs, and I've never heard them complain about it. It's just how it is. Now it's a big surprise when I travel and discover that public smoking is still permitted in many places. We were in Detroit a couple of years ago and it totally caught us off guard that people were smoking and eating. We had only experienced smoke-free dining for a couple of years at that point, but it really seemed weird after getting accustomed to the new world order of smokeless public spaces.

[o1pickleboy]

Restrictions on where people can smoke have been getting phased in for several years here in British Columbia. They plan to ban smoking in cars if children are present.

I smoked for about ten years. Even though I quit twenty years ago, I still see the odd smoker that makes it look so satisfying. The rest of the time I love all of the restrictions that have been put on smoking in public places.

When public smoking bans were being introduced here the bar and restaurant owners were all doomsday about it. Smoking bans were introduced in urban areas before they were in rural areas and that definitely created a situation where people were driving around to find places that would still accommodate smoking. Once the laws were universal the bars did just fine.

Much of the rationale for restricting smoking in public places comes from the government here trying to make smoking less attractive to people. It's even tied up in the fact that we have socialized public health care. This is from a BC Government web site :



Fewer people smoking saves the health care system dollars. Stores aren't even allowed to display cigarettes openly any more. They are all behind a black cover.

I'm amazed at how quickly I got used to the public smoking bans. I always opted to eat in the non-smoking part of restaurants, but it is far nicer to eat in a smoke-free one. I see the odd person get up and go outside for a smoke, but most people don't seem to bother. Bars are another story. There is always a crowd outside smoking, but then they come back inside and make merry. When I go to a bar with friends who smoke they just do it, usually in groups or pairs, and I've never heard them complain about it. It's just how it is. Now it's a big surprise when I travel and discover that public smoking is still permitted in many places. We were in Detroit a couple of years ago and it totally caught us off guard that people were smoking and eating. We had only experienced smoke-free dining for a couple of years at that point, but it really seemed weird after getting accustomed to the new world order of smokeless public spaces.

I still don't get why us smokers can't have a bar or restaurant for us. I fully understand you non smokers wanting to eat and drink without smoke, but do you have to take all the pubs and restaurants

Wasn't it you that said that Smokers are cheaper on the health care system because they die before reaching an age that requires alot of medical procedures. and if we are more expensive isn't that what we are paying the extra taxes on cigarettes for?

[Typo Lad]

Actually, I take that back. There are certain instances that I do care if people do it. Nothing makes me angrier than seeing a parent smoking a cigarette with a newborn/child in their arms/car/etc.

I'm a pretty mellow person, few things anger me-- that's one of them.

Yeah? How about a pregnant woman smoking?

We have a friend who has chain-smoked through four pregnancies. The first three are all fine, thank G-d, but the fourth is on it's way and we shall see.

[Gary_B]

I still don't get why us smokers can't have a bar or restaurant for us. I fully understand you non smokers wanting to eat and drink without smoke, but do you have to take all the pubs and restaurants

Wasn't it you that said that Smokers are cheaper on the health care system because they die before reaching an age that requires alot of medical procedures. and if we are more expensive isn't that what we are paying the extra taxes on cigarettes for?

I guess they just want to have one set of laws applied the same way throughout the province. When public smoking bans were introduced in Ontario there were some counties that got on board sooner than others. My home town, where my parents still live, had smoke free-bars and restaurants. The next town west is in a different county and bars still allowed smoking for several months. People drove the ten miles so that they could still smoke. Once the laws were universal, business settled down to similar levels enjoyed before the legislation.

I did mention something in a previous discussion about healthy people costing the health care system more because they live longer, but that was an opinion expressed by someone I heard on a radio discussion and it isn't government policy.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

I recommend all smokers mimic my personal protest of draconian non-smoking laws. Prior to entering any establishment that is 100% non smoking, eat a lot of beans.
Once enough of us are doing this we can blackmail the Health Nazi's into backing off.
I gurantee you that if these whiny arrugula eating pantywaists are greeted by a cloud of flatus every time they step in doors they will quickly long for the days of smoking rooms. :evilsmile:

And the best part? Since most of our noses are ruined anyway we will barely even notice. :tongue:

Let the farting smokers rebellion begin! :eek:

[Asmith]

Yeah? How about a pregnant woman smoking?

We have a friend who has chain-smoked through four pregnancies. The first three are all fine, thank G-d, but the fourth is on it's way and we shall see.

Well smoking while pregnant can reduce the size and weight of a baby... and personally, if I was gonna have to push a baby outta my loins, I'd want it as light and small as possible!

[o1pickleboy]

I guess they just want to have one set of laws applied the same way throughout the province. When public smoking bans were introduced in Ontario there were some counties that got on board sooner than others. My home town, where my parents still live, had smoke free-bars and restaurants. The next town west is in a different county and bars still allowed smoking for several months. People drove the ten miles so that they could still smoke. Once the laws were universal, business settled down to similar levels enjoyed before the legislation.

I did mention something in a previous discussion about healthy people costing the health care system more because they live longer, but that was an opinion expressed by someone I heard on a radio discussion and it isn't government policy.

I wonder what the numbers say on this. Anyone know where to find them.


I do believe that is it legislative laziness that is the problem(that and political pressure) All they had to do is issue smoking permits/license just like they issue liquor licenses. Issue the licenses based on populations.(26% smokes 26% of the bars/restaurants get them. A lottery system to start out to be fair and then let the licenses by brought out and transferred like they do liquor licenses

[Roquefort Raider]

I recommend all smokers mimic my personal protest of draconian non-smoking laws. Prior to entering any establishment that is 100% non smoking, eat a lot of beans.
Once enough of us are doing this we can blackmail the Health Nazi's into backing off.
I gurantee you that if these whiny arrugula eating pantywaists are greeted by a cloud of flatus every time they step in doors they will quickly long for the days of smoking rooms. :evilsmile:

And the best part? Since most of our noses are ruined anyway we will barely even notice. :tongue:

Let the farting smokers rebellion begin! :eek:

But if you're successful, somebody will eventually light up and...

BOOM!!!

[Puma]

But if you're successful, somebody will eventually light up and...

BOOM!!!

you say that like it's a bad thing.

[Dreadstar]

Nah, fuck it (for me, anyway). I've got no reason to live to be old(er). Let it kill me. Something's going to someday, anyway.

THANK you very much. I've reached the "I don't really give a fuck anymore" area, myself.

[Dreadstar]

Here in Michigan, they haven't gotten draconian enough to stop it in bars yet.

Wait, what?

You can still smoke in bars in Michigan?

Can I come for a visit? I'd spring for an evening of smashed goodness at the Bell's Brewpub.

[Kees_L]

I enjoy smoke. So I like to now and again. But not just wherever.
And old or second-hand smoke can be pretty vile.
So I keep to smoking outside or where it won't be inconvenient.

In my own home I smoke either outside or in the kitchen. Also 'cause smoking is bad for my comics and books!

[o1pickleboy]

Wait, what?

You can still smoke in bars in Michigan?

Can I come for a visit? I'd spring for an evening of smashed goodness at the Bell's Brewpub.

You will have to go with Royal. Me and Dox our on the wagon

[4thHorseman]

Don't smoke and don't like being around smokers. Don't mind them smoking, but I think there are certain areas (such as restaurants) where it should be respected that not everyone wants to be smelling your smoke so smoking should not be allowed.

Bars on the other hand should be a given that smokers and drinkers will be there. So if you don't want to be around smokers, find somewhere else to go.

Certain environments are fine for smokers to be in. Others are not.

[section 8]

That kindof only matter if the staff is none smoking. I would say I have only met one or two non smoking bartenders and servers
For some reason as a society we have apparently decided everything has to be comfortable and safe

Every job has it's risks. In the Oil/gas fields there is a constant risk of life and limb.
Safety measures are taken to minimize the risk, but there is always and usually a lot of it. I can't remember the last time I saw a waitress in a smoke-filled bar get her legs crushed. (and don't get me started on the smell)

in short, "If you don't like your job, learn to fucking type."

[section 8]

That said I DO sympathize with people who are former smokers/ quitting smoking. who may be subject to the second hand smoke of others, which is likely to trigger cravings and compromise their attempt at a healthier lifestyle.

But that too, is a matter of personal responsibility.

[J. Robb]

Bars on the other hand should be a given that smokers and drinkers will be there. So if you don't want to be around smokers, find somewhere else to go.

Certain environments are fine for smokers to be in. Others are not.
Times change. It wasn't all that long ago that people could smoke on planes, but now most agree with that ban.

[Alex]

As a former smoker, i like to defend smokers, and then point out i am not a smoker.
It's like making a racist coment and then saying you are half black. People want to be mad, but you can call them a racist if they say anything, so you end up feeling incredibly smug.

[Sean Whitmore]

For some reason as a society we have apparently decided everything has to be comfortable and safe

Some weird, unfathomable reason, huh?


SEAN

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

Some weird, unfathomable reason, huh?


SEAN
Weird, yes. Unfathomable, no.
Many of us have simply deluded ourselves into believing we have a right not to be uncomfortable. Others are under the mistaken impression that we live in a perfectable world and that all unpleasantness can be legislated away. Its weird,and its childish, and its unrealistic, but its not that hard to understand why people believe such nonsense.

[Gary_B]

I can think of worse things than trying to make the world more pleasant.

[Sean Whitmore]

I can think of worse things than trying to make the world more pleasant.

Not I. It's truly the worst crime imaginable.


SEAN

[Acecool]

I recommend all smokers mimic my personal protest of draconian non-smoking laws. Prior to entering any establishment that is 100% non smoking, eat a lot of beans.
Once enough of us are doing this we can blackmail the Health Nazi's into backing off.
I gurantee you that if these whiny arrugula eating pantywaists are greeted by a cloud of flatus every time they step in doors they will quickly long for the days of smoking rooms. :evilsmile:

And the best part? Since most of our noses are ruined anyway we will barely even notice. :tongue:

Let the farting smokers rebellion begin! :eek:

Fine by me, I'll be farting right back at you. Heck farts don't bother me that much.

On a side note. Please drop this health nazi thing, it is kinda offensive. I am trying to be civil about it. Call them health nuts, health crazed, what ever, but the nazi thing really needs to not be thrown around so casually.

[Sean Whitmore]

On a side note. Please drop this health nazi thing, it is kinda offensive.

Not to mention retarded.

Whoops, that's probably offensive too.


SEAN

[Acecool]

Weird, yes. Unfathomable, no.
Many of us have simply deluded ourselves into believing we have a right not to be uncomfortable. Others are under the mistaken impression that we live in a perfectable world and that all unpleasantness can be legislated away. Its weird,and its childish, and its unrealistic, but its not that hard to understand why people believe such nonsense.

If you really want to intrude, how about if I develop a habit of hitting you on the head with a newspaper. It won't kill you and it won't cause you any major damage, but it will be extremely pleasurable for me. I'll do it at a restaurant, or a bar, maybe while you are sleeping. Hey, don't put your rules on me.

After all you don't have a right to be comfortable, and you don't want to be childish.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

and you don't want to be childish.

Oh I think you're doing a good enough job of that for the both of us.
Gnight Gracie.

[howyadoin]

Not I. It's truly the worst crime imaginable.You know who else wanted to make the world more pleasant?

[Sean Whitmore]

You know who else wanted to make the world more pleasant?

That's just because he loved puppies.

He loved them so! Damn! Much!


SEAN

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

You know who else wanted to make the world more pleasant?

Yanni? Now that is insulting.

[Acecool]

Oh I think you're doing a good enough job of that for the both of us.
Gnight Gracie.

Please you are the one who started off with the inflammatory language, and has so much trouble seeing the other side. The lack of empathy and inflammatory language is true childishness.

[howyadoin]

Gnight Gracie.You keep saying that, but then you don't leave.

[o1pickleboy]

I can think of worse things than trying to make the world more pleasant.

The only problem I have is by making the world safer for you, they are making the world more unpleasant for me. I would understand if there was no compromise or solution other than to do this, but there is

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

You keep saying that, but then you don't leave.

No, but the people I say it to no longer appear on my screen. And that's even better than me leaving.

[Sean Whitmore]

No, but the people I say it to no longer appear on my screen. And that's even better than me leaving.

Not for the rest of us, though.


SEAN

[Reptisaurus!]

I agree with whichever side is being less obnoxiously whiny at any given time.

[Shellhead]

Weird, yes. Unfathomable, no.
Many of us have simply deluded ourselves into believing we have a right not to be uncomfortable. Others are under the mistaken impression that we live in a perfectable world and that all unpleasantness can be legislated away. Its weird,and its childish, and its unrealistic, but its not that hard to understand why people believe such nonsense.

You are extremely selfish. Breathing in toxic fumes is not a matter of mere discomfort. Try blowing smoke in a baby's face and see if you don't get your face pounded by an indignant parent.

[Guapo Méndez]

THANK you very much. I've reached the "I don't really give a fuck anymore" area, myself.

Damn post office won't let me send you some Cohibas.

[Tages]

You are extremely selfish. Breathing in toxic fumes is not a matter of mere discomfort. Try blowing smoke in a baby's face and see if you don't get your face pounded by an indignant parent.

You hear that, everyone? As soon as you light up you might as well be blowing smoke into a baby's face.

[OzBat!]

Smoking is one of those things I'm against quite stridently, personally. Both my father and his father died slowly, agonizingly, from emphysema. Their lungs literally melted into black tar and they wasted away to skinned skeletons hacking up black goo before eventually choking on it, and both died in their early 60s. On that basis, I'm guessing there's a smidgeon of evidence that genetically, my family and smoking are not a good mix.

On the other hand, my now-ex wife's grandparents smoked easily a pack and a half a day each, and both lived well into their late 80s and 90s. Walking into their rooms was like walking into a 70s pub, all dark and smoky. So obviously there's the possibility that my kids, having half their genetic material from her side of the family, may well be absolutely fine smoking.

Fortunately, both my kids are smart enough to realise that's a total gamble on which way they'd fall genetically, and both hate the smell of smoke. That's their decision and one I'm more than happy with.

For me, I have a love/hate relationship with the smell. I hate it when it gets into my clothes. But while I detest the smell of cigarettes generally, if I smell my Dad's brand, there's something there that has a good association with hanging around him in his workshop when I was little, and I don't actually mind it. It's both acrid and comforting at the same time.

So, if you need to smoke around me, pardon me if I do a brand assessment on you first. If you don't come up to spec, you're OUT!

[Chris N]

I agree with whichever side is being less obnoxiously whiny at any given time.

Sounds like you agree with nobody.

[Chris N]

And that's even better than me leaving.

How do you figure?

[Karl O'Neill]

I don't smoke.

I don't like smokes.

I don't like being around smoke or smokers.

I don't hate anybody that smokes.

It is their personal choice.

Here is what makes me laugh.

My mother and girlfriend will NOT smoke in the same room as new born babies from 0-9months young.

But when the kids are old enough to walk they start to smoke in the same room as them again.

So what's the logic? If a kid can walk, He or she becomes immune to smoke!

[OzBat!]

It's a developmental thing; infant's lungs are not fully developed so the possibility for damage is greater.

[Paradox]

Michael P gets it in the face:

I would love it if, just once, a smoker standing next to me and talking to someone sitting across the table from me would keep their cigarette in the hand opposite my face.

Something I noticed in bars (because I try to pay attention to be courteous) should be a Murphy's Law codicil...

"In a group environment, all cigarette smoke will be attracted to the non-smoker, no matter how many times you change chairs." :frown:

[Karl O'Neill]

It's a developmental thing; infant's lungs are not fully developed so the possibility for damage is greater.

That's not a good enough reason for me.

All smoke around kids and adults is bad.

But I'll stop complaining now:biggrin:

[Michael P]

Something I noticed in bars (because I try to pay attention to be courteous) should be a Murphy's Law codicil...

"In a group environment, all cigarette smoke will be attracted to the non-smoker, no matter how many times you change chairs." :frown:

Ha. I've seen smoke take turns to reach my face.

[Paradox]

gary bolt points out (as proxy):

Tobacco-related illness is the leading cause of preventable death in BC. Tobacco use causes up to 6,000 deaths in BC each year. Smoking kills more people in BC than all other drugs, motor vehicle collisions, murder, suicide and HIV/AIDS combined.

Bah! You need more handguns to even things out. :mad:

:wink:

[Tages]

Ha. I've seen smoke take turns to reach my face.

See, if you'd just take up smoking you wouldn't have that problem.

[Paradox]

Asmith is pragmatic:

Well smoking while pregnant can reduce the size and weight of a baby... and personally, if I was gonna have to push a baby outta my loins, I'd want it as light and small as possible!

Hee, and I'm in favor of global warming because I'm sick of cold winters. :tongue:

[Paradox]

Dreadstar picked the wrong place:

Wait, what?

You can still smoke in bars in Michigan?

Can I come for a visit? I'd spring for an evening of smashed goodness at the Bell's Brewpub.

Sadly, Bell's, being a somewhat neo-hippy hangout, has always been non-smoking indoors (allowed out in the garden area, though).

[o1pickleboy]

Hee, and I'm in favor of global warming because I'm sick of cold winters. :tongue:

The problem with that is it is more of global climate change, we won't get warmer just more extreme temperature.


So drop the aerosol can already

[Nightcrawler]

Something I noticed in bars (because I try to pay attention to be courteous) should be a Murphy's Law codicil...

"In a group environment, all cigarette smoke will be attracted to the non-smoker, no matter how many times you change chairs." :frown:

This is 100% true. A lot of my friends smoke while I don't, and I can tell you from experience that this happens constantly.

[Nevets F]

Smoking is disgusting...I don't want to smell it, I don't want to breath it. People who smoke in public are rude and I seriously get pissed off at them every time I try to take a breath, and instead I get nasty smoke instead of fresh air...and walking through the streets of NY, that happens every time I take a breath on the streets.

My mother died at 54 because of smoking.

I am not, and would not be friends with a smoker.

I support all laws banning smoking anywhere other than in a persons own home, and only then if no children live there. Otherwise, it should be illegal there as well.

Obviously, I have VERY strong opinions on this.

[Rallura]

As long as they stay away from me when they smoke I am fine, but then I have lymphoma and am really sensitive to even just the smell of smoke. I think it's ridiculous to ban smoking from everywhere. Bars are supposed to be smoky for crying out loud, they're bars. Some places though should be smoke free. Businesses should be able to decide for themselves. Hospitals need to be smoke free, because people in hospitals are ill and also due to the oxygen use.

[Gary_B]

The only problem I have is by making the world safer for you, they are making the world more unpleasant for me. I would understand if there was no compromise or solution other than to do this, but there is

Smokers made all bars and restaurants unpleasant for non-smokers all the time every time for decade after decade. Suck it up. It only takes a couple of minutes for you to step outside and have a quick smoke.

I know it is frustrating to adapt, but in a few years I doubt that it will matter to you all that much. As I said earlier, none of my smoker friends seem bothered by having to step outside for a smoke when we go to bars together. Your proposed solution is segregation which isn't likely to get mandated any time soon.

Bah! You need more handguns to even things out. :mad:

:wink:

Maybe those stats only work north of the 49th Parallel. We all know that it is a constant bloodbath of gun killing south of it.

[Gary_B]

I mentioned this discussion to a co-worker today and he was genuinely surprised that there are still North American cities that allow smoking in bars and restaurants. To paraphrase his dismay: "Even the Irish don't smoke in bars, and nobody was complaining when I was drinking there. If the Irish can adapt to smoking restrictions, anyone can".

[Tages]

I mentioned this discussion to a co-worker today and he was genuinely surprised that there are still North American cities that allow smoking in bars and restaurants. To paraphrase his dismay: "Even the Irish don't smoke in bars, and nobody was complaining when I was drinking there. If the Irish can adapt to smoking restrictions, anyone can".

Did he then bend over and take a nice long whiff?

[Gary_B]

Did he then bend over and take a nice long whiff?

Fart whiff? We Canadians are inured to such things.

[Asmith]

You are extremely selfish. Breathing in toxic fumes is not a matter of mere discomfort. Try blowing smoke in a baby's face and see if you don't get your face pounded by an indignant parent.

Does this happen to you a lot? People lighting up and blowing smoke in a baby's face? I mean enough to warrant even making that example and promise of violence? Because if it does, it may just be the kid is really ugly or smokers sense innate evil within it...

[howyadoin]

Did he then bend over and take a nice long whiff?In Canada our farts don't stink.

[FanLove4Blade]

I recently had a conversation with my substance abuse counsilor about smoking. She was a smoker and she had the opinion that we are becoming second class citizens. With smoking in bars, at the workplace being banned. So this made me think how everyone else feels about smoking and smokers




What is your opinion of smokers?

she's not a second class citizen....her cigarette is. =]

as long as its not forcing me to breathe it in, I really dont care what smokers do. Their choice. Just so long as they know they could make it easier on the health care system by not smoking. but i know they already know that. Can't get anywhere by lecturing em all the time. They already know their habit is not good.

[Asmith]

No, but the people I say it to no longer appear on my screen. And that's even better than me leaving.

You won't be happy till the only opinion you can see is your own...
G'night Gracie.

[Sean Whitmore]

Does this happen to you a lot? People lighting up and blowing smoke in a baby's face? I mean enough to warrant even making that example and promise of violence? Because if it does, it may just be the kid is really ugly or smokers sense innate evil within it...

Sounds like the work of a really, really low-rent abortionist.


SEAN

[Paradox]

Steven F. gets a wisecrack:

Smoking is disgusting...I don't want to smell it, I don't want to breath it. People who smoke in public are rude and I seriously get pissed off at them every time I try to take a breath, and instead I get nasty smoke instead of fresh air...and walking through the streets of NY, that happens every time I take a breath on the streets.

So you're saying you prefer the smell of urine? :tongue:

Oh, all right...to be fair, that would have worked better with Detroit...

[Paradox]

FanLove4Blade should hear more about this woman:

she's not a second class citizen...

I agree. From everything pickle's told us, she's simply an idiot. :tongue:

[Asmith]

So you're saying you prefer the smell of urine? :tongue:

Oh, all right...to be fair, that would have worked better with Detroit...

Though you gotta wonder why they thought the only reason they weren't getting 'fresh air' in New York was because of the smokers...

[FanLove4Blade]

I agree. From everything pickle's told us, she's simply an idiot. :tongue:

lol :tongue:

[rick]

I smoke, I enjoy it, the rest of you can happily go fuck yourselves.

[Sean Whitmore]

I smoke, I enjoy it, the rest of you can happily go fuck yourselves.

Well, we'll have plenty of opportunity, being allowed indoors and all.

:wink:


SEAN

[Asmith]

I smoke, I enjoy it, the rest of you can happily go fuck yourselves.

I want that on a t-shirt!

[rick]

Well, we'll have plenty of opportunity, being allowed indoors and all.

:wink:


SEAN


You apparently don't go to the right bars.

[Gary_B]

I smoke, I enjoy it, the rest of you can happily go fuck yourselves.

I'm happy.

[StoneGold]

I smoke, I enjoy it, the rest of you can happily go fuck yourselves.

Lah te dah, I drink in bars, instead of in the alley behind the liquor store like the rest of the world.

[pariah-1972]

I think they are weak willed and stupid personally.

My mom is a life long smoker and now she can't seem to quit no matter how hard she tries and she is constantly coughing up a lung.

Most of my friends since high school have smoked and i was able to deal with the peer pressure just fine.

[section 8]

Some weird, unfathomable reason, huh?


SEAN

Considering that comfort and safety are man-made illusions, yes.

[Paradox]

pariah-1972 pulls out this old saw:

I think they are weak willed and stupid personally.

You don't know much about addiction, do you? It's like those people who say "Well, why don't you just quit?" :rolleyes:

[Sean Whitmore]

Considering that comfort and safety are man-made illusions, yes.

I'll ponder that next time I stop at a red light or lock my door at night.


SEAN

[howyadoin]

You don't know much about addiction, do you? It's like those people who say "Well, why don't you just quit?" :rolleyes:"Telling a drug addict to just say no is like telling a manic depressive to just cheer up."

~ Steven Tyler

[pariah-1972]

You don't know much about addiction, do you? It's like those people who say "Well, why don't you just quit?" :rolleyes:

Everyone knows it's addictive that's why you don't start in the first place.

[section 8]

I'll ponder that next time I stop at a red light or lock my door at night.


SEAN

Lights are never ignored? Locks are never broken or picked?

Everyone knows it's addictive that's why you don't start in the first place.


hindsight = 20/20

[Sean Whitmore]

Lights are never ignored? Locks are never broken or picked?

Yet despite this, we keep the practices in place.

And, when possible, punish the people who went against them.


SEAN

[Paradox]

pariah-1972 must feel good up in his Tower of Will:

Everyone knows it's addictive that's why you don't start in the first place.

The news of that got stronger later. Hell, back in the '50s, doctors were hawking them on TV as GOOD for you.

In fact, a lot of the "strong willed" people in my generation got sucked in because they had "strong wills" and figured they could just not get sucked in. It's got nothing at all to do with your will. Even the "not starting". You're just riding a high-horse there.

[Sean Whitmore]

The news of that got stronger later. Hell, back in the '50s, doctors were hawking them on TV as GOOD for you.

Hell, knowing my parents, they started because Fred Flinstone told them to.


SEAN

[section 8]

Hell, knowing my parents, they started because Fred Flinstone told them to.


SEAN

That's why I started....





drugs were involved

[Sean Whitmore]

That's why I started....

drugs were involved

Sure, who wouldn't be swayed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvHiiWFbBU

The jingle rhymed!


SEAN

[section 8]

That ad makes no sense!!

They hadn't invented paper yet!! How could they smoke Cigarettes?!!

*Insert "smoking rocks" joke here*

[Kees_L]

..., the rest of you can happily go fuck yourselves.

Much obliged sir, I'll get right on that.

Possibly even share a cigarette in the afterglow...:wink:.

[pariah-1972]

The news of that got stronger later. Hell, back in the '50s, doctors were hawking them on TV as GOOD for you.

In fact, a lot of the "strong willed" people in my generation got sucked in because they had "strong wills" and figured they could just not get sucked in. It's got nothing at all to do with your will. Even the "not starting". You're just riding a high-horse there.A relatively healthy high horse too:tongue:

And i'm Generation X i don't know about you but i knew since i was a kid they were bad for you especially when i tried to hide my mothers cigarettes and she had a cow.

[Paradox]

I'm likely closer to your mother's age. Believe me, there's a difference between the awareness of "bad for you" (anyone who didn't know that was an idiot...it's lighting something on fire and sucking it into your lungs) and so addictive that for some people quitting nears impossibility.

One of the problems is that it's a very creeping addiction. You can have, say, one or two occasionally at the bar for a long time, and then seemingly all of the sudden, you're smoking in other situations and then before you even realize it, you're hooked. It's often alcohol that gets people, too. Tobacco and alcohol go marvelously together. Many people ONLY smoke when they're drinking. The warnings often went ignored because we had (and still have, btw) the government telling the most outrageous lies about addictive and non-addictive drugs that it's very easy to just dismiss what they say.

You grew up in a far different time than that. And, frankly, you sound a bit more militant than even most of your generation. You don't smoke. Hey, good on you. It's a bit much to dismiss others who do as "stupid and weak willed" though.

[Trystenn]

I am a smoker, but at least for me, acrid smoke in a closed room is kinda nasty, i dont mind it in the open air but when alot of smokers are smoking in one room with no ventilation, it does start getting a lil gross.

[o1pickleboy]

The news of that got stronger later. Hell, back in the '50s, doctors were hawking them on TV as GOOD for you.

In fact, a lot of the "strong willed" people in my generation got sucked in because they had "strong wills" and figured they could just not get sucked in. It's got nothing at all to do with your will. Even the "not starting". You're just riding a high-horse there.
Not mention the government used to send cigarettes to soldiers because it was suppose to be good for them

Hell, knowing my parents, they started because Fred Flinstone told them to.


SEAN

Yabba Dabba do it

I agree. From everything pickle's told us, she's simply an idiot. :tongue:

What are the odds of me coming out of counseling with a bigger substance abuse problem?

[o1pickleboy]

In Canada our farts don't stink.

only because they freeze to your asshole

[J. Robb]

Study: Big drop in heart attacks after smoking bans. (http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/22/moh.healthmag.smoking.heart/index.html)

[o1pickleboy]

Smokers made all bars and restaurants unpleasant for non-smokers all the time every time for decade after decade. Suck it up. It only takes a couple of minutes for you to step outside and have a quick smoke.

I know it is frustrating to adapt, but in a few years I doubt that it will matter to you all that much. As I said earlier, none of my smoker friends seem bothered by having to step outside for a smoke when we go to bars together. Your proposed solution is segregation which isn't likely to get mandated any time soon.



Maybe those stats only work north of the 49th Parallel. We all know that it is a constant bloodbath of gun killing south of it.

So we wronged the non smokers and now it is our turn to be wronged.

and most of your smoker friends have that warm pacific gulf stream to keep your winters from being blistering cold

[Nick Soapdish]

Everyone knows it's addictive that's why you don't start in the first place.

Teenagers aren't really noted for their good decision-making. And like 'Dox said, it's easy to slip into. Just because you withstood peer pressure doesn't mean that everybody should be able to. Maybe your friends didn't smoke as much or were less likely to tease you for not smoking. I faced virtually no peer pressure to smoke and was never offered a cigarette or even a drag by a friend. I just had a few friends that smoked clove cigarettes around me on very rare occasions. But both of my sisters started smoking because all of their friends smoked around them a lot and because it made it easier to deal with the secondhand smoke.


So we wronged the non smokers and now it is our turn to be wronged.

and most of your smoker friends have that warm pacific gulf stream to keep your winters from being blistering cold

There's still that whole segregation thing.

And I'm not feeling that smokers are all that wronged when I still have to leave a public place to avoid breathing in smoke and possibly coughing out a lung. I'd be more than happy to trade. Smokers can smoke in privately owned public places as long as the smoke is contained (or at least 100 feet away from the boundaries), but not in publicly owned places. Legally, that makes a lot more sense to me anyway - although I guess there's still some issues with workplace safety.

[Guapo Méndez]

Teenagers aren't really noted for their good decision-making. And like 'Dox said, it's easy to slip into. Just because you withstood peer pressure doesn't mean that everybody should be able to.

In my case, it wasn't resisting peer pressure the reasons I never took up smoking or drinking.

I could never get over the taste.

[o1pickleboy]

Teenagers aren't really noted for their good decision-making. And like 'Dox said, it's easy to slip into. Just because you withstood peer pressure doesn't mean that everybody should be able to. Maybe your friends didn't smoke as much or were less likely to tease you for not smoking. I faced virtually no peer pressure to smoke and was never offered a cigarette or even a drag by a friend. I just had a few friends that smoked clove cigarettes around me on very rare occasions. But both of my sisters started smoking because all of their friends smoked around them a lot and because it made it easier to deal with the secondhand smoke.




There's still that whole segregation thing.

And I'm not feeling that smokers are all that wronged when I still have to leave a public place to avoid breathing in smoke and possibly coughing out a lung. I'd be more than happy to trade. Smokers can smoke in privately owned public places as long as the smoke is contained (or at least 100 feet away from the boundaries), but not in publicly owned places. Legally, that makes a lot more sense to me anyway - although I guess there's still some issues with workplace safety.

The thing about calling it Segregation in this case it isn't the majority telling the minority that they can only eat in certain places or drink in certain places. It is more the minority asking for the opportunity to remove themselves.

but if we are going to use Segregation to draw a parallel to the smoking debate. Then what is a outright ban the the equivalent of? You are forcing us to be like you when you are around and when in public with no options to have a place of our own. So either it is like the South ended Segregation and just telling all African Americans just to paint themselves white in public or telling every homosexual that they have to stay in the closet

[howyadoin]

So either it is like the South ended Segregation and just telling all African Americans just to paint themselves white in public or telling every homosexual that they have to stay in the closetSince your pain and suffering is on a par with slavery and gay-bashing, it's really too bad Martin Luther King isn't here to speak for you.

Oh, the oppression!

[Dreadstar]

Fucking cigarette smokers. They made my dog cough, once.

[o1pickleboy]

Since your pain and suffering is on a par with slavery and gay-bashing, it's really too bad Martin Luther King isn't here to speak for you.

Oh, the oppression!

They brought segregation into the argument not me. Just using the analogy that was provided

[Nick Soapdish]

The thing about calling it Segregation in this case it isn't the majority telling the minority that they can only eat in certain places or drink in certain places. It is more the minority asking for the opportunity to remove themselves.

but if we are going to use Segregation to draw a parallel to the smoking debate. Then what is a outright ban the the equivalent of? You are forcing us to be like you when you are around and when in public with no options to have a place of our own. So either it is like the South ended Segregation and just telling all African Americans just to paint themselves white in public or telling every homosexual that they have to stay in the closet

I don't think that whether a person smokes or not is as intrinsic to their identity as race or gender preference.

And currently smokers do have the opportunity to remove themselves. In fact, it's kind of required. ;)

Like I said in my last post, I'm fine with allowing smoking areas (now that some restaurants have caught onto how to design them) in privately owned public areas as long as the smoke doesn't intrude into public areas.

[o1pickleboy]

Fucking cigarette smokers. They made my dog cough, once.

actually it was twice, but you weren't paying attention

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

actually it was twice, but you weren't paying attention
He shouldn't have bent over. :evilsmile:

[Dreadstar]

Lets talk about something in the restaurant environment that is MUCH more obtrusive than cigarette smoke:

Screaming children!

"Would you like smoking or non-smoking, sir?"
"I don't care, just as long as there aren't any kids nearby."

[Dreadstar]

actually it was twice, but you weren't paying attention

I was busy chain-lighting my next cancer stick, no doubt.

[Nick Soapdish]

Lets talk about something in the restaurant environment that is MUCH more obtrusive than cigarette smoke:

Screaming children!

"Would you like smoking or non-smoking, sir?"
"I don't care, just as long as there aren't any kids nearby."

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've been to restaurants with mixed up smoking sections more recently than one with a screaming child. And Florida instituted a smoking ban in 2003. (I'm not counting restaurants with cigarette smoke out of state and haven't had problems with kids there either.)

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've been to restaurants with mixed up smoking sections more recently than one with a screaming child. And Florida instituted a smoking ban in 2003. (I'm not counting restaurants with cigarette smoke out of state and haven't had problems with kids there either.)
Only if more than 50% of thier revenues come from food.

[Dreadstar]

I went to a Mexican place the other day and the guy in the next booth ordered frickin' FAJITAS. I had to breath in all that carcinogenic burnt animal flesh while it sizzled there on that cast iron.

[i_mmmchocolate]

______________Wrong thread. Oops.

[Slam_Bradley]

I went to a Mexican place the other day and the guy in the next booth ordered frickin' FAJITAS. I had to breath in all that carcinogenic burnt animal flesh while it sizzled there on that cast iron.


And the annoying sizzle. Should make them turn down the volume on that. Could harm our hearing.

[Dreadstar]

And the annoying sizzle. Should make them turn down the volume on that. Could harm our hearing.

HEY! Are you making fun of my hearing aids?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/Aliaswit/loldogs-funny-dog-pictures-im-serio.jpg

[o1pickleboy]

HEY! Are you making fun of my hearing aids?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/Aliaswit/loldogs-funny-dog-pictures-im-serio.jpg

if you would clean out all the tar from your ears you might be able to hear something

[howyadoin]

Lets talk about something in the restaurant environment that is MUCH more obtrusive than cigarette smoke:

Screaming children!No fuckin' kidding. Vancouver seems to be full of families who believe their precious little offspring can do whatever they want, wherever they want.

[Sean Whitmore]

Since the smoking sections in restaurants aren't being used anymore, smart owners should be using the space to stuff all the families with whiny fucking children into.

Then maybe douse the area with sleeping gas.


SEAN

[Nick Soapdish]

Since the smoking sections in restaurants aren't being used anymore, smart owners should be using the space to stuff all the families with whiny fucking children into.

Then maybe douse the area with sleeping gas.


SEAN

Not closed off enough. It would just disperse.

[Guapo Méndez]

I went to a Mexican place the other day and the guy in the next booth ordered frickin' FAJITAS. I had to breath in all that carcinogenic burnt animal flesh while it sizzled there on that cast iron.

And you didn't order fajitas yourself?


I thought you were my friend, Dread.

[o1pickleboy]

Not closed off enough. It would just disperse.

Roofies in their food then?

[pariah-1972]

Paradox i'm sorry if i come across as "militant" but it's a very personal situation cause i really don't want to lose my mother to lung cancer and i'm very very worried about it recently.

(yes i'm a mamma's boy you wanna fight about it? :evilsmile: )
I usually don't care if people smoke around me cause i figure i have inhaled enough second hand smoke from my mother anyways.

I do think Smokers should be allowed to smoke in bars and have designated places in airports and restaurants.

As far as peer pressure...
like i said almost all my friends in high school smoked and i never had them put any pressure on me that i can remember of course a lot of them were metal-heads and i was more into goth and alternative anyways so it wasn't like i ever fit in.

[mgs]

I don't.

Judging a person for smoking tobacco seems pretty weird to me. It's not the smoking I particularly care about, it's the smoker.

[Jared]

Smokers, like drug addicts and fat people, are weak-willed and deserving of scorn.
:evilsmile:

(Really though, just keep it away from me and I don't care. Though I *hate* seeing some of my best friends smoke cigarettes all the time, just because of what they're doing to their bodies.)

[FanLove4Blade]

I smoke, I enjoy it, the rest of you can happily go fuck yourselves.

i can go fuck myself happpily, fuck this knuckle sandwich *shows fist* if u smokers rudely blow your smoke in my face. :smile:

[StoneGold]

i can go fuck myself happpily, fuck this knuckle sandwich *shows fist* if u smokers rudely blow your smoke in my face. :smile:

If you film that, I know some places on the Internet we can make some money with the video.

[Disciple_of_the_Bat]

i can go fuck myself happpily, fuck this knuckle sandwich *shows fist* if u smokers rudely blow your smoke in my face. :smile:


Awww how cute, hes threatening to beat people up on the internet. That must mean hes a really tough guy.

[StoneGold]

Awww how cute, hes threatening to beat people up on the internet. That must mean hes a really tough guy.

It's a chick, and it's in response to what is already a tough guy statement.


Although the way I read it, it's more a threat to fist herself.

[FanLove4Blade]

Awww how cute, hes threatening to beat people up on the internet. That must mean hes a really tough guy.

I am a 'she' actually.

and yeah i think it is rude to blow smoke in people's faces. why cant smokers smoke outdoors. All my family did. when they smoked. even now the ones who still smoke (a lot of them quit) are still respectful of us who dont care to be around it.

If you film that, I know some places on the Internet we can make some money with the video.

hahaha :tongue:

Although the way I read it, it's more a threat to fist herself.



take it for w/e meaning you want...but i admit, this way is funnier. =]

[schwamp]

There are no evil smokers. There are no evil Smoke Nazis. There are people and there are assholes. Some of each smoke. Some of each don't.




Paradox is wise with his sentiments.

[o1pickleboy]

If you film that, I know some places on the Internet we can make some money with the video.

my thread I want a free copy

[FanLove4Blade]

my thread I want a free copy

i'll gift - wrap one just for you when its mass produced. :tongue: ok?

[o1pickleboy]

i'll gift - wrap one just for you when its mass produced. :tongue: ok?

that will work.

Send me a cigarette for after too.(sorry have to mix it back into the main topic)

[schwamp]

that will work.

Send me a cigarette for after too.(sorry have to mix it back into the main topic)

...send a whole pack. I bet something like that doesn't just get watched once.

[FanLove4Blade]

that will work.

Send me a cigarette for after too.(sorry have to mix it back into the main topic)

with a bow on top. and a bouquet of flowers.

and oh ya, the cancer stick.

Ya got it. =]

[Gary_B]

Smokers, like drug addicts and fat people, are weak-willed and deserving of scorn.
:evilsmile:

(Really though, just keep it away from me and I don't care. Though I *hate* seeing some of my best friends smoke cigarettes all the time, just because of what they're doing to their bodies.)

It's times like this that I wish I had a time machine so that I could post a photograph of your fat middle-aged smug ass.

[Paradox]

pariah-1972 shouldn't think I was offended or meant offense:

Paradox i'm sorry if i come across as "militant" but it's a very personal situation cause i really don't want to lose my mother to lung cancer and i'm very very worried about it recently.

Oh, I understand. By "militant" I merely meant that you're a bit more avidly opposed than the average person in your generation. Meant it more as "neutrally descriptive" rather than "negative".

[pariah-1972]

Oh, I understand. By "militant" I merely meant that you're a bit more avidly opposed than the average person in your generation. Meant it more as "neutrally descriptive" rather than "negative".I'm not really opposed to it, i mean whatever makes you happy in the end really as long as you are not actively hurting others.

I really wish it was easier for people to quit so my mother can live to a ripe old age and not get lung cancer.


I even think drugs should be legalized for the most part( i know it's a different subject but it's similar)

[Mister Blisterfists]

I quit smoking and now it makes me sick.

[o1pickleboy]

I'm not really opposed to it, i mean whatever makes you happy in the end really as long as you are not actively hurting others.

I really wish it was easier for people to quit so my mother can live to a ripe old age and not get lung cancer.


I even think drugs should be legalized for the most part( i know it's a different subject but it's similar)

It would be easier if the tobacco companies wouldn't add 3 times more nicotine than what is there naturally to their cigarettes.

[Kees_L]

It would be easier if the tobacco companies wouldn't add 3 times more nicotine than what is there naturally to their cigarettes.

Yeah. Or maybe.
I'd wager I still smoke - not mainly because of the addictive additions or 'sweet sweet chemicals' - but rather because I've been telling myself how great it is, and that my (self-rolled) smokes are a treat thoroughly deserved and all that.

I'm kind of an "I'm going to quit" kind of smoker.

[jessecuster3]

I have to admit, when I was in northern Michigan the other week I wound up at a bar that allowed smoking. It was very weird.



I am not proud of being a smoker, I am not ashamed of it, either(except when my mother gets on my case).

[Kees_L]

I am not proud of being a smoker, I am not ashamed of it, either(except when my mother gets on my case).

:smile:
My mother can make me feel guilty of - well, lots - like feckin' up my own laundry, in my own house.
It's my burden to bear that I may have to bring stonewashed back into style again.
My house.
My washer.
Yet she showed me how, told me a million times - Oh knit it Mom!

[DrewTheXenocide]

So apparently clove cigarettes have been banned all across the US. I don't smoke cloves anymore, but it's FUCKING STUPID.

[pariah-1972]

So apparently clove cigarettes have been banned all across the US. I don't smoke cloves anymore, but it's FUCKING STUPID.Wow i like the smell but they don't taste any different than regular cigs but Obama said he was gonna crack down on the cigarette companies even tho he is a long time smoker himself.