What in God's Name Happened to Rogue?

[Bullets& Bracelets]

Seriously. What happened to Rogue? I remember as a child, watching the 90s X-Men cartoon when I was first introduced to our favorite Southern Belle. Like Wonder Woman, I was enthused at seeing a warrior woman with superpowers kick un-holy ass to whoever was foolish enough to stand in her path.

Seeing a woman with a green headband and Alabama accent knock a giant robot on it's ass awed me and Rogue became my second favorite X-Man (sorry, Storm is first and boy does she have her problems....)

http://www.sfgalleries.net/art/xsf/series3/rogue.jpg

Strong. Sassy. Bold. Fierce. Beautiful. Over the years, I enjoyed watching Rogue punch villains through buildings with a smile and her patented 'Sugah'. Though Rogue suffered from the curse of not being able to touch someone without potentially killing them and a dark past, she always tried to look at the bright side of things and did her best to be the life of the party.

Than this bitch came along:

http://chockblock.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/anna-paquin-xmen3-rogue1.jpg

Thanks to the X-Men movies, Rogue was drastically changed from what her core character used to be.

Gone was her fun-loving personality. Gone was her sassy attitude. Gone was her "punch first, ask questions later" persona.

In place, Rogue was abducted and replace by a emo, whiny, constantly frowning little girl who couldn't fight her way outta a wet paper bag if her life depended on it.

Thanks to the X-Men movies, we also got goth-punk Rogue:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_eQ5BBnWj_T8/SGWuyl2t4SI/AAAAAAAABMs/n8ueiHXcYz0/s400/250695-120714-rogue_super.jpg

Gone was her flight. Gone was her super-strength. Gone was her combat skills. Nope, this Rogue depended on everyone else and acted like she was one step away from a suicide ward and a room full of black candles.

And unfortunately, her yesteryear days of ass-kicking Rogue has been replaced in favor of emo-Rogue.

Nowadays, Rogue is a shadow of her former self. She's always sad. She's always complaining. Since when was the last time we saw the girl SMILE for once?

Please, Marvel. Bring back Rogue!

http://www.vgmuseum.com/rips/arcade/xvsf/Rogue.gif

[Mechano]

anna paqoain(sp) is hot.

[Washout]

Before I start this rant, I will say that Marvel just rebooted her powers and gave her control, which I enjoy a lot. We are told that we don't know that much about her powers, so here's hoping.

Okay. . . let's go.

Mike Carey is doing his best. We'll never see Ms. Marvel Rogue again, but he has implied that she may be strong again. I'll never understand Marvel's reasoning for holding back such a popular character. No she isn't strong in the movies, but she was awful in the movies (the character, not the actress).

I'm not saying she needs her strength and flight to be great because she still is, but it is silly to just toss away her iconic powerset.

Oh, well, I guess. She's still pretty amazing under Carey's pen.

[Bullets& Bracelets]

[I I'll never understand Marvel's reasoning for holding back such a popular character. No she isn't strong in the movies, but she was awful in the movies (the character, not the actress).

I'm not saying she needs her strength and flight to be great because she still is, but it is silly to just toss away her iconic powerset.
.

IMO, she needs her iconic powerset. It's HER powers. I can't imagine Rogue without them.

Get rid of the flight? Sure, I wouldn't mind. But Rogue is a brawler. She likes to physically get into the heat of battle and sledgehammer whom ever stands in her way.

And Rogue in the movie was terrible. She was a weak, emotional, and plain stupid little girl through-out all the movies. Her best moment was stopping Pyro. That's it.

They shoulda had Sarah Michelle Gellar play her when she was originally cast.

[coveredinbees]

Bold
http://i37.tinypic.com/2962lmr.jpg

Cheerful
http://i35.tinypic.com/rup2tw.jpg

Sassy
http://i38.tinypic.com/bj8wuo.jpg

Looks like X-Treme X-Men is your book!
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=233798

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Brawler Rogue is dead which is beyond sad, but hey what can we do? At least Carey is writing her and doing a pretty good job

[Goshin]

I miss ass-whuppin' 80s and 90s Rogue too. She shoulda kept half of Ares Strength as a god he still has plenty.

I think she'll get flight and strength back eventually.

I say let her run around with the exiles for six months, absorb a alternate carol danvers and come back.....

[Mechano]

Bold
http://i37.tinypic.com/2962lmr.jpg

Cheerful
http://i35.tinypic.com/rup2tw.jpg

Sassy
http://i38.tinypic.com/bj8wuo.jpg

Looks like X-Treme X-Men is your book!
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=233798


good lord!!! it had taken me years to get those awful images out of my mind, and then you go and do that.

[Bullets& Bracelets]

Bold

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=233798

Ah, yes. One of the last good writings of Rogue. Even when she was going through that ridiculous Skrull-thing.

Than she lost her powers. Than Chuck Austen was writing her....UGH

[Goshin]

I knew about Rogue's strength and flight before I knew she touched people that was an added bonus.

Non-Ms Marvel Rogue is like Wolverine without his claws Cap without his shield, or a white Nightcrawler with no tail

[coveredinbees]

Rogue got into a brawlish type with Moonstone. She lost, but it was still a nice looking fist fight. She beat Ares with the help of Danger and threw away H.A.M.M.E.R. soldiers after. She's as great as ever.

[Swashbuckler]

When I saw the OP's username I wanted to immediately respond "Hun, ROgue isn't Wonder Woman, get over it", but then I read the first post and remembered why I first fell in love with Rogue. I am not a big fan of her these days because I'm tired of the way she's portrayed when before she was showen to have been past her humps. Like others have said though, Carey's handling has been great so far. I want to see her battling more with suprises, maybe not with super-strength, but big attacks that no one expects. And I'd love her bomber jacket to come back. I loved it. Also, more "Sugah" please.

[sbo]

Why marvel took such a popular ass-kicking character and removed everything about her that made her so popular i'll never know.

Let's take a superstrong fighter and trun her into a weakling that can't win a fight if her life depended on it.

Let's not actualy make her character do anything in the movies except cry, run for her life, and get saved by wolverine.

And let's take her classic, sexy, and immediately recognizable costume and replace it with some hideous baggy attire that you'd normally find on a monk.

The result is the almost complete ruination of this character.

[RoguefanAM]

warning, tl;dr post

Hate Movie Rogue all you want (I think it's justified as well), but Evo Rogue was fine. In Evolution, Rogue had a strong personality, the same no nonsense attitude that I'd adored from 616 Rogue. She'd get in your face if she thought you were wrong and would call you out. She didn't depend on anyone and she wasn't suicidal. Despite her goth persona, I don't really remember her complaining much. Most of her angsting was about Mystique, and she proved she was willing to do something about that when she pushed Mystique's statue off a cliff (basically showed she was willing to kill her). She was a girl of action, despite her appearance.

To be honest, ignoring the homage to classic Rogue in her costume, WatXM Rogue is the whiney and overly-dependent one. Her relationship with Logan makes me cringe. She had a similar mentor-father relationship with Logan in Evolution, but it wasn't nearly as bad.

I do miss her strength and more brawler-like/fun personality, but Carey is doing ok. I think it'd help if Carey gave her a physical power, if only to highlight to weaker writers that she is a different character from movie Rogue.

[batGRRRl4ever]

Seriously. What happened to Rogue?

In place, Rogue was abducted and replace by a emo, whiny, constantly frowning little girl who couldn't fight her way outta a wet paper bag if her life depended on it.

Nowadays, Rogue is a shadow of her former self. She's always sad. She's always complaining. Since when was the last time we saw the girl SMILE for once?

Ummm, actually for those of us who remember reading her BEFORE she even joined the X-Men and primarily was showing up in Dazzler and Rom when she was with the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, what you described WAS the way she was almost always depicted, so in essence she IS going back to her original pre-x-men roots.

[Monty_Cristo]

i wonder if she'll play a part in the final takedown of the new eviler Ms. Marvel. if she stole Doctor Sofen's powers she would have an enemy for life.

[Bullets& Bracelets]

Ummm, actually for those of us who remember reading her BEFORE she even joined the X-Men and primarily was showing up in Dazzler and Rom when she was with the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, what you described WAS the way she was almost always depicted, so in essence she IS going back to her original pre-x-men roots.

Uh, no. Her original pre-X-Men roots was an evil, jealous 40 year old mutant with a sassy mouth and cowardly disposition to run when outnumbered.

She was never an emo until recently when Anna Paquin butchered her character into something completely different.

[Optic Rage!]

Uh, no. Her original pre-X-Men roots was an evil, jealous 40 year old mutant with a sassy mouth and cowardly disposition to run when outnumbered.

She was never an emo until recently when Anna Paquin butchered her character into something completely different.

It's not Anna's fault, she did the best she could with what she had, your anger is misdirected. I recall her in an interview with Halle Berry actually disliking the fact she did not get any action in the movies.

[darknessatnoon]

uhhm, people.

Rogue is so bitching that she led her team in her sleep for six months. Yeah, suck on it Cyclops fans.

[Monty_Cristo]

from a physical aspect, i always saw Jessica Biel as a potential movie Rogue. she played a tom boy on seventh heaven and isn't opposed to getting into shape. but i'm just talking about the physical. i don't think she could have pulled off Rogue's accent or attitude.

[sbo]

The way the character was written was more at fault than Anna.
But whoever cast Anna as Rogue made a huge mistake all the same. Nothing about anna Paquin says Rogue in any way.

[Monty_Cristo]

The way the character was written was more at fault than Anna.
But whoever cast Anna as Rogue made a huge mistake all the same. Nothing about anna Paquin says Rogue in any way.

to be fair, she's not an easy girl to cast.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Seriously. What happened to Rogue?

In a few simple words? 'X-Men Movie Franchise'.

Rogue was remoulded into Kitty Pryde for that movie, and in the Books they started redesigning her to both physically resemble Anna Paquin (Who I still believe was terribly miscast) and the movie interpretation of the character.

The problem is that movie Rogue really was just a cipher for Kitty. As a result the character got more than a little messed up for a while.

I like what Carey's been doing with her, both on his X-Men and X-Men Legacy runs, and hope that we'll eventually get back to a Rogue which more people recognise, rather than this odd compromise we've been offered for so long.

[Azure]

I see no correlation between Rogue's portrayal in the movies and her portrayal in the comics. They are different characters.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I see no correlation between Rogue's portrayal in the movies and her portrayal in the comics. They are different characters.

Very different. Although the modern physical appearance of Rogue is VERY influenced by the movies at times.

[Nicoclaws]

Very different. Although the modern physical appearance of Rogue is VERY influenced by the movies at times.

Wellshe's been drawn that way (softer) since Madureira, way before the movies. (and maybe before that)
Fashion changes.

[atoningunifex]

Uh, no. Her original pre-X-Men roots was an evil, jealous 40 year old mutant with a sassy mouth and cowardly disposition to run when outnumbered.

She was never an emo until recently when Anna Paquin butchered her character into something completely different.

You're decrying the loss of 90s Rogue, but 90s Rogue was a watered-down version of 80s Rogue. When Rogue first joined the X-Men she was VERY emo. She was the outcast, the one nobody trusted. She was more than half-crazy because of the multiple personas she'd absorbed bouncing around in her head. She was constantly bemoaning the fact that she couldn't touch anyone.

[Leirus]

Uh, no. Her original pre-X-Men roots was an evil, jealous 40 year old mutant with a sassy mouth and cowardly disposition to run when outnumbered.

She was never an emo until recently when Anna Paquin butchered her character into something completely different.

Nope, the problem was the budget, I think. They could not have a flying, super-strong Rogue in the first low-budget movie, so the character was changed to fit the low budget production. It is not Paquin´s fault... and she dos not deserved to be called a bitch for it...

and I really like True Blood...

[The Lucky One]

Oh, buddy. It wasn't the movie that changed Rogue's personality, it was the '90s comics, specifically her relationship with Gambit. And in case you didn't read it, Mike Carey's run did a great job of bringing the old Rogue back. So, no need to complain. :smile:

-D

[witness]

Oh, buddy. It wasn't the movie that changed Rogue's personality, it was the '90s comics, specifically her relationship with Gambit. And in case you didn't read it, Mike Carey's run did a great job of bringing the old Rogue back. So, no need to complain. :smile:

-D

Without a doubt Gambit and Rogue's constipated relationship has ruined both characters to a degree, but I think the movie HAS played a huge part as well (not just in ruining Rogue either, Wolverine's massive over-exposure was mainly down to the movies too). I think Marvels problem since the movies is they haven't known whether they're writing for the new fans brought in through the movies or for the existing long term comic book fans. The bright side is she still has her absorbing powers so it wouldn't exactly take a massive plot contrivance to get her Super strength or flying abilities back.

[Electric i]

Great...they killed Rogue.

I read the "Rom" where Rogue, Mystique, and Destiny helped Rom take down Hybrid...great story, and it really influenced the development of Rogue's character. I read the issue of X-Men where she battled Storm and Wolverine in the Pentagon while Carol Danvers was deleting her files from the mainframe.

Rogue was an awesome female character that was not afraid to go toe-to-toe with anyone, win or lose.

Rest in peace, Strong, Independent Rogue.

[Twisted Bliss]

hi-fi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KandouErik]

I really would like to see her get back Ms Marvel's powers again. Those powers might not have been her's - but they defined her for a generation.

One solace is that Rogue still is the kick-butt ask questions later kind of mutant still - just not with flying and invulnerability.

[Slant]

Oh, buddy. It wasn't the movie that changed Rogue's personality, it was the '90s comics, specifically her relationship with Gambit. And in case you didn't read it, Mike Carey's run did a great job of bringing the old Rogue back. So, no need to complain. :smile:

-D

Yes, lets blame Gambit. Because he had so much to do with Movie Rogue, and Evolution Rogue. :rolleyes:

[ViciousX]

I gotta say that I agree. 90s Rogue was the bastardization.

I mean, think about it for one minute. This is a girl who can't have physical contact with another human being. She can't have sex. She can't kiss. She can't hug. She can't shake a hand. She can't do any thing that you and I do every day without potentially killing someone.

That is her mutant power. That is her curse also. That should be the power that gets focused on and that she is known for. Not some flight, strength and invulnerability she stole from somebody else.

But, well, I always had issues with the character.

Rogue is intro'd like Athena, fully grown. She's been a villain for years. Or so we're told. But in fact, her first appearance is in that awful comic when she permanently steals Ms. Marvel's powers. Ms. Marvel?! An admittedly mediocre character with vague mini-Supergirl abilities. Rogue now has these same vague but potent abilities. They have nothing to do with being a mutant. But they make her very powerful. And one story later, she's joined the X-Men. WHAT?! There's a convoluted backstory with Mystique, who's like a mother to her? But why? Why not do that with Nightcrawler? Well, because Mystique was an afterthought, relatively speaking. It was too late to do THAT story with the Mystique and Nightcrawler. So we get Rogue. I never got the appeal at all. Just maybe, she might have been great if it had been intro'd over time. Actually been a young villainess for a couple years. But instead it's force-fed to us like -- well -- like it's an animated series that has to forcefeed us continuity.

[chrissstopher]

I gotta say that I agree. 90s Rogue was the bastardization.

I mean, think about it for one minute. This is a girl who can't have physical contact with another human being. She can't have sex. She can't kiss. She can't hug. She can't shake a hand. She can't do any thing that you and I do every day without potentially killing someone.

That is her mutant power. That is her curse also. That should be the power that gets focused on and that she is known for. Not some flight, strength and invulnerability she stole from somebody else.

But, well, I always had issues with the character.

Rogue is intro'd like Athena, fully grown. She's been a villain for years. Or so we're told. But in fact, her first appearance is in that awful comic when she permanently steals Ms. Marvel's powers. Ms. Marvel?! An admittedly mediocre character with vague mini-Supergirl abilities. Rogue now has these same vague but potent abilities. They have nothing to do with being a mutant. But they make her very powerful. And one story later, she's joined the X-Men. WHAT?! There's a convoluted backstory with Mystique, who's like a mother to her? But why? Why not do that with Nightcrawler? Well, because Mystique was an afterthought, relatively speaking. It was too late to do THAT story with the Mystique and Nightcrawler. So we get Rogue. I never got the appeal at all. Just maybe, she might have been great if it had been intro'd over time. Actually been a young villainess for a couple years. But instead it's force-fed to us like -- well -- like it's an animated series that has to forcefeed us continuity.

She did have an introduction and a few issue appearances before she took Carol Danvers' powers... so she didnt just appear out of nowhere and we weren't force fed continuity. She was a villain that worked with Mystique way before she encountered Ms. Marvel. And Ms. Marvel wasn't, and still isn't, a mediocre character.

In addition... answering some of the other comments (why Marvel did what they did with Rogue)... it could be explained that Marvel perhaps thought that we liked the character of Rogue, who she is as a person, who she represents... not what her powers are. Foolishly, Marvel thought we liked Rogue for more than her powerset... guess they were wrong.

[darknessatnoon]

Roge, Stacy X and Sage are the only x-women who aren't complete tools.

[Slant]

Foolishly, Marvel thought we liked Rogue for more than her powerset... guess they were wrong.

While I do agree that powers don't make the character, it can be a major part of how that character operates, especially in Rogue's case.

[darknessatnoon]

Rogue is always lovely. Even in X-Men: The End.

[yanapryde]

Carey will be taking Rogue and proving that she is a worthwhile and enjoyable character to read, rather than a Super Girl Lite cliche.

I've always enjoyed Rogue's absorbing powers, which are her true powers, and found myself more entertained when she would 'multi-sap' her enemies/teammates and use their abilities in creative 2-at-a-time or 3-at-a-time etc etc ways.

I believe that many fans are very attached to the Animated Rogue from the 90's and that character was great to watch but characters grow and change and it may be premature to cry "RUIN" in regard to this new development.
Also, its unfair to chastise her character in other forms of media (animated shows, movies) given that the creative teams are allowed many liberties to make the subject matter fresh and unique. But its all a matter of taste, I suppose.

[Azure]

I'm more worried about Mystique.

[Slant]

Rogue is always lovely. Even in X-Men: The End.

Everyone was lovely there. Or dead.

[chrissstopher]

While I do agree that powers don't make the character, it can be a major part of how that character operates, especially in Rogue's case.

Agreed, though I would argue that Rogue still operates in the same way... she still rushes head long into dangerous situations, even more dangerous now because she's not invulnerable, and she is always brave in the face of adversity.

I think the original poster is basing all of his/her opinions of Rogue in non-canon media (movies and cartoons) and isnt actually studying the true character of Rogue as she's written in canon by Marvel.

[RoguefanAM]

She did have an introduction and a few issue appearances before she took Carol Danvers' powers... so she didnt just appear out of nowhere and we weren't force fed continuity. She was a villain that worked with Mystique way before she encountered Ms. Marvel. And Ms. Marvel wasn't, and still isn't, a mediocre character.

In addition... answering some of the other comments (why Marvel did what they did with Rogue)... it could be explained that Marvel perhaps thought that we liked the character of Rogue, who she is as a person, who she represents... not what her powers are. Foolishly, Marvel thought we liked Rogue for more than her powerset... guess they were wrong.

You're right and wrong. It's one part powerset and one part writer's influence. Besides CC, who has written Rogue as confident in the last few years? Even Carey's Rogue is rarely sassy/flirty, she's more mature.

I think powers do define a character. It makes them interesting, and allows them options and possibilities. It's not like you can deny that fans get excited/some sort of happy feeling when they see their favorite character kicking butt. If they're not able do that, wouldn't your enjoyment go down?

It's kinda of expected. The X-men are a superhero comic. Action and drama is needed to keep our interest. If a character is no longer doing that...

I like Rogue. She's still my favorite character. But I won't deny that I preferred it when she able to smash things and fly. It racked up her cockiness, and it was fun seeing her go toe-to-toe with superman level beings. In a way, that's part of her personality as well. Her action junkie personality.

[yanapryde]

Agreed, though I would argue that Rogue still operates in the same way... she still rushes head long into dangerous situations, even more dangerous now because she's not invulnerable, and she is always brave in the face of adversity.

I think the original poster is basing all of his/her opinions of Rogue in non-canon media (movies and cartoons) and isnt actually studying the true character of Rogue as she's written in canon by Marvel.

Agreed.
X-Men TAS was fantastic entertainment but many fans seem to focus on it rather than the characters' true origins/histories.:smile:

[chrissstopher]

You're right and wrong. It's one part powerset and one part writer's influence. Besides CC, who has written Rogue as confident in the last few years? Even Carey's Rogue is rarely sassy/flirty, she's more mature.

I think powers do define a character. It makes them interesting, and allows them options and possibilities. It's not like you can deny that fans get excited/some sort of happy feeling when they see their favorite character kicking butt. If they're not able do that, wouldn't your enjoyment go down?

It's kinda of expected. The X-men are a superhero comic. Action and drama is needed to keep our interest. If a character is no longer doing that...

I like Rogue. She's still my favorite character. But I won't deny that I preferred it when she able to smash things and fly. It racked up her cockiness, and it was fun seeing her go toe-to-toe with superman level beings. It was what attracted me to the character in the first place, her action junkie personality.

But again, that's what she does... not who she is. If you love who she is, then you'll still love her. If you just love what she can do for you and what she does in a fight... then she could be replaced by any character with a similar powerset and you'd love that person too. Loving a powerset makes a character easily replaceable.

[RoguefanAM]

But again, that's what she does... not who she is. If you love who she is, then you'll still love her. If you just love what she can do for you and what she does in a fight... then she could be replaced by any character with a similar powerset and you'd love that person too. Loving a powerset makes a character easily replaceable.

Sometimes, what you do tells people who you are. People do tend to examine others through their actions. Especially with comic characters, we're not always offered a look inside their heads. Of course what she does is going to affect my enjoyment.

Do I like the character's personality? Yes. But I would enjoy it even more if she doing something I liked. It does enhance my enjoyment.

[yanapryde]

But again, that's what she does... not who she is. If you love who she is, then you'll still love her. If you just love what she can do for you and what she does in a fight... then she could be replaced by any character with a similar powerset and you'd love that person too. Loving a powerset makes a character easily replaceable.

Monet St.Croix, M, of X-Factor can fly and punch through walls for example.
She's probably got an Albanian or Algerian or wherever she's from accent too.
And she's overly confident.
Same powers. Different characters.
Good observation chrissstopher.

[Shaid O Gray]

She did have an introduction and a few issue appearances before she took Carol Danvers' powers... so she didnt just appear out of nowhere and we weren't force fed continuity. She was a villain that worked with Mystique way before she encountered Ms. Marvel. And Ms. Marvel wasn't, and still isn't, a mediocre character.

No she wasn't. That story was written and half-drawn in 1979, but then Ms M's solo got canceled. The first time Rogue ever saw print was in Avengers Annual 10 in 1981, which opens with Danvers getting tossed off the bridge.

And one story later, she's joined the X-Men. WHAT?!

That, however, is nonsense as well. She was a villain for a bit after that Av Annual. She appeared on Dazzler as a villain several times. She fought the X-Men in #158, she had that ROM story.... And even then it took a bit before she knocked on the X-Men's door. (And mind you, the ROM story already established that she wasn't all that villainnous at heart so the groundwork was laid there too)

But again, that's what she does... not who she is. If you love who she is, then you'll still love her. If you just love what she can do for you and what she does in a fight... then she could be replaced by any character with a similar powerset and you'd love that person too. Loving a powerset makes a character easily replaceable.

I agree on that. I miss Rogue's old powerset too but that's not what makes a character. Same can be said to people who feel she's not Rogue anymore now that her powers are under control.: Her power is not WHO she is. After 30 years there's a lot more to her than that. Sorry if some can't see that.

X-Men TAS was fantastic entertainment but many fans seem to focus on it rather than the characters' true origins/histories

I've noticed that too. There's a generation of X-Men fans who got into it by seeing the 90's cartoon and who keep acting that that's where it all began. It wasn't. That's just where it all began for you! The comic has been around for 40+ years. The cartoons usually last 3-5 and they're ALL based on the comic. Gotta keep that perspective.

[RoguefanAM]

Monet St.Croix, M, of X-Factor can fly and punch through walls for example.
She's probably got an Albanian or Algerian or wherever she's from accent too.
And she's overly confident.
Same powers. Different characters.
Good observation chrissstopher.

I like Monet for her powers as well. If they took them away one day, it'd definitely affect how much I enjoyed her. Because those powers allow her to do things she wouldn't without.

If I didn't care about powers, I probably wouldn't be reading superhero comic books.

[DaveTVS]

But it's not like Rogue could ALWAYS fly or punch through walls. She stole those powers from someone else and then they disappeared later. It's not the same thing as taking away some of M's powers since they are ALL part of her mutation.

[RoguefanAM]

But it's not like Rogue could ALWAYS fly or punch through walls. She stole those powers from someone else and then they disappeared later. It's not the same thing as taking away some of M's powers since they are ALL part of her mutation.

Most people didn't know Rogue before she got her powers. And as a character, she really didn't get much development before she become a hero.

Before the Ms Marvel incident and her joining the X-men, she was almost a completely different character. Along with the power change, there was a personality change as well.

[The Lucky One]

Yes, lets blame Gambit. Because he had so much to do with Movie Rogue, and Evolution Rogue. :rolleyes:

I think what you need to do is separate criticism of a relationship between two fictional characters from criticism of either of the characters themselves. Sometimes, the two are not necessarily one and the same. :smile: Because I am a good person, I will also provide an example: there was a longstanding relationship between the characters Longshot and Dazzler. It was extremely harmful to both characters. Obviously this does not make Longshot a bad character. It doesn't even make Dazzler a bad character either. It was, however, very detrimental to both characters for over a decade. This parallels my opinion about the Rogue/Gambit pining schmoop-fest of most of the '90s and some of the '00s. C'est bon?

-D

[yanapryde]

But it's not like Rogue could ALWAYS fly or punch through walls. She stole those powers from someone else and then they disappeared later. It's not the same thing as taking away some of M's powers since they are ALL part of her mutation.

Agreed.
Rogue's were stolen and Monet's were her mutation.
And it would be interesting to see Monet dealing with a loss of one of those abilities, given her personality is partially due to her power level.

[AllisterH]

But it's not like Rogue could ALWAYS fly or punch through walls. She stole those powers from someone else and then they disappeared later. It's not the same thing as taking away some of M's powers since they are ALL part of her mutation.

Except that as we were introduced to Rogue, part of who Rogue is are those powers.

Mutants lose their powers (Storm) and even their extra bits (Wolverine) but the iconic representation of the character is how we are first introduced to them and especially it was for a long time

(Rogue had Ms. Marvel powers up to the mid 90s IIRC. Hell, I say she started going downhill once she lost the Ms. Marvel voice in her head...It's one thing to have just Carol in there so we get two characters but so many random voices that pop out now?)

[DaveTVS]

I always thought M's codename should be "Perfection."

Rogue is cool to me, no matter what powers she has. I even bought her mini where she ended up with Sunfire's powers.

[Shaid O Gray]

Most people didn't know Rogue before she got her powers. And as a character, she really didn't get much development before she become a hero.

Before the Ms Marvel incident and her joining the X-men, she was almost a completely different character. Along with the power change, there was a personality change as well.

No one knew Rogue before she got the Ms M powers. She already had them in her first appearance.

[Slant]

At least she doesn't have sunfire powers.

I think what you need to do is separate criticism of a relationship between two fictional characters from criticism of either of the characters themselves. Sometimes, the two are not necessarily one and the same. :smile: Because I am a good person, I will also provide an example: there was a longstanding relationship between the characters Longshot and Dazzler. It was extremely harmful to both characters. Obviously this does not make Longshot a bad character. It doesn't even make Dazzler a bad character either. It was, however, very detrimental to both characters for over a decade. This parallels my opinion about the Rogue/Gambit pining schmoop-fest of most of the '90s and some of the '00s. C'est bon?

-D
And I disagree. Both Rogue and Gambit would have likely ran into the same problems regardless of whether they were dating or not. As seen in other media, even without Gambit, Rogue still would have had the "power/relationship" problem, and Gambit still would have had his "Mysterious Past/Woe is me" problems. It doesn't make much sense to blame it on one or the other. It all falls on the writers, not the characters. I'm not one who think Gambits problems were Rogues's fault, or the other way around.

Like the OP stated 2 versions of Rogue that he didn't like, and neither of them had much to do with Gambit.

[darknessatnoon]

I think what you need to do is separate criticism of a relationship between two fictional characters from criticism of either of the characters themselves. Sometimes, the two are not necessarily one and the same. :smile: Because I am a good person, I will also provide an example: there was a longstanding relationship between the characters Longshot and Dazzler. It was extremely harmful to both characters. Obviously this does not make Longshot a bad character. It doesn't even make Dazzler a bad character either. It was, however, very detrimental to both characters for over a decade. This parallels my opinion about the Rogue/Gambit pining schmoop-fest of most of the '90s and some of the '00s. C'est bon?

-D

Longshot was already a bad character. Everyone hates Ms. Marvel even with her "Rogue" powers. Powers can't ruin or improve a character unless they are shitty "good luck" powers.

[The Lucky One]

It doesn't make much sense to blame it on one or the other. It all falls on the writers, not the characters.

Uh... yes, that's exactly correct. And exactly what I said. :confused:

-D

[chrissstopher]

Except that as we were introduced to Rogue, part of who Rogue is are those powers.

Mutants lose their powers (Storm) and even their extra bits (Wolverine) but the iconic representation of the character is how we are first introduced to them and especially it was for a long time

(Rogue had Ms. Marvel powers up to the mid 90s IIRC. Hell, I say she started going downhill once she lost the Ms. Marvel voice in her head...It's one thing to have just Carol in there so we get two characters but so many random voices that pop out now?)

But thats exactly my point. Storm lost her powers, Wolverine lost his adamantium... but the true essence of who they were as people was consistent. That's what we love about them, their personality, their tenacity, their bravery in the face of danger and impossible odds. And that's what I love about Rogue as well... regardless of her "iconic" powerset or not.

[Slant]

Wolverine would be cool if he could control the weather. He wouldn't be Wolverine, but it would still be cool.

Yep.

[RoguefanAM]

When a character loses their powers, writers also write them differently.

AllisterH brought up a good point. Look at Storm when she lost her powers. She was a lot more resourceful and edgy. As soon as she got her powers back, the writers wrote her differently. They focused on different aspects of her personality. Probably because they thought she can't be resourceful + powerful.

No one knew Rogue before she got the Ms M powers. She already had them in her first appearance.

Ah, you're right. Never mind.

[RoguefanAM]

Sorry! Double post...I'd thought someone would've already posted by then...

But thats exactly my point. Storm lost her powers, Wolverine lost his adamantium... but the true essence of who they were as people was consistent. That's what we love about them, their personality, their tenacity, their bravery in the face of danger and impossible odds. And that's what I love about Rogue as well... regardless of her "iconic" powerset or not.

Not everything changes about them when they lose their powers, but aspects of them DO change. They're more cautious, broody, etc...what they do is different. It does change their character.

Take away Superman's powers, and how he acts is different. He's still the same character, he's just missing a part of himself that makes up his character. The super.

[chrissstopher]

When a character loses their powers, writers also write them differently.

AllisterH brought up a good point. Look at Storm when she lost her powers. She was a lot more resourceful and edgy. As soon as she got her powers back, the writers wrote her differently. They focused on different aspects of her personality. Probably because they thought she can't be resourceful + powerful.

I disagree... but this isn't a Storm thread so I don't want to get off topic.

[AllisterH]

The problem I have with Rogue's regular "absorbtion powers" is that it a tad too binary.

Either the being is too powerful to absorb and thus she doesn't get to do anything OR she instantly takes them off the board.

[Slant]

Rogue should perma-absorb the New X-Men. On Purpose.

[yanapryde]

The problem I have with Rogue's regular "absorbtion powers" is that it a tad too binary.

Either the being is too powerful to absorb and thus she doesn't get to do anything OR she instantly takes them off the board.

Which is what is so exciting about Carey's decision to have her gain control of her powers and see how she can use them NOW. Yip Yip! Yay Character Development!:wink:

[RoguefanAM]

I disagree... but this isn't a Storm thread so I don't want to get off topic.

Well, then I'll apply it to Rogue. She's a lot more resourceful now, then she was back when she had powers. She didn't have to worry as much about getting hurt, so she was more cocky/reckless. Now she acts more demure, and intelligent (her interaction with Karla) in order to make up for the lack of power.

What the writer shows us with the character changes. And it's why some of us lose some enjoyment on that.

I'm not saying characters and powers are interchangeable. Look at my avatar, I like Evo Rogue and she doesn't have the Ms Marvel build. It's because it's Rogue that I like her. But I know powers play into characterization as well, that does affect how much I enjoy a character.

[Shaid O Gray]

Sorry! Double post...I'd thought someone would've already posted by then...

Not everything changes about them when they lose their powers, but aspects of them DO change. They're more cautious, broody, etc...what they do is different. It does change their character.

Take away Superman's powers, and how he acts is different. He's still the same character, he's just missing a part of himself that makes up his character. The super.


Well you're right, there are shifts, but I like to think of it as new potential being brought out of a character under new circumstances while their core personality remains the same.

Actually, come to think of it, same holds true for real people anyway. We all have all kinds of potential, a lot of which we never see because we never hit all possible circumstances.

I think overall Rogue's been kept fairly consistent. It's just the late 90's and early 00's were sooo bad. At times she was barely recognisable.

The problem I have with Rogue's regular "absorbtion powers" is that it a tad too binary.

Either the being is too powerful to absorb and thus she doesn't get to do anything OR she instantly takes them off the board.

Good point. I think someone once said it was more of a 'villain's power', which is debatable, but I can see the argument. Still, it's all in how you do it. Look at the Ares thing: she took a chunk of power, but he was still up and about. Could've been a GREAT fight between them (Like that one Cover suggested) but they just chose not to go there.

[Washout]

I think our complaining is useless for right now. She has just gone through her most recent power change, and we've only seen her use her powers twice since then. Mike Carey has hinted that her new power status may not be what it seems, so let's see what's going on before we get too crazy with the "Rogue's no fun any more".

[RoguefanAM]

Well you're right, there are shifts, but I like to think of it as new potential being brought out of a character under new circumstances while their core personality remains the same.

Actually, come to think of it, same holds true for real people anyway. We all have all kinds of potential, a lot of which we never see because we never hit all possible circumstances.

I think overall Rogue's been kept fairly consistent. It's just the late 90's and early 00's were sooo bad. At times she was barely recognisable.

That's kinda what I was trying to say. The potential for enjoyment goes down when she loses those powers.

I like Rogue as a character, but I like it even more when she's cocky and hits stuff. That's a lot less likely when she doesn't have physical powers.

[chrissstopher]

Well, then I'll apply it to Rogue. She's a lot more resourceful now, then she was back when she had powers. She didn't have to worry as much about getting hurt, so she was more cocky/reckless. Now she acts more demure, and intelligent (her interaction with Karla) in order to make up for the lack of power.

What the writer shows us with the character changes. And it's why some of us lose some enjoyment on that.

But that's what I don't get... you'd rather see the character stagnant, boxed in as a one note joke, than see different aspects of their abilities, what they're capable of? I would argue that Rogue was resourceful with her borrowed powers and now with her natural born powers as well. Especially now that she can control her powers, she'll be even more resourceful.

I guess its just something that divides fandom... do you care more for the character as a person and what they bring to the table with their point of view or for how cool their powers are and how many fights they win. I'd say its an even divide.

[AcesX1X]

But that's what I don't get... you'd rather see the character stagnant, boxed in as a one note joke, than see different aspects of their abilities, what they're capable of? ...I guess its just something that divides fandom... do you care more for the character as a person and what they bring to the table with their point of view or for how cool their powers are and how many fights they win..

i think bullet&bracelets just wants to see someone throwing cars at people and saying "sugah" a lot.

[timbox]

I liked Rogue better before she became religious.

[RoguefanAM]

But that's what I don't get... you'd rather see the character stagnant, boxed in as a one note joke, than see different aspects of their abilities, what they're capable of? I would argue that Rogue was resourceful with her borrowed powers and now with her natural born powers as well. Especially now that she can control her powers, she'll be even more resourceful.

I guess its just something that divides fandom... do you care more for the character as a person and what they bring to the table with their point of view or for how cool their powers are and how many fights they win. I'd say its an even divide.

It's only one note if the writer is weak. All that resourcefulness, and what not is still possible...but only if a writer recognizes it. It goes both ways. But I acknowledge that writers are influenced by powers. They have to think of what situations to put characters in, and if they don't have enough power to stand on their own - she's going to be written differently.

I will say that I enjoy the action junkie personality more, than resourceful Rogue. If I wanted a resourceful character, there are others more suited to that. That's not what I like about Rogue.

Chrisstopher, look at who you're talking to. Look at my avatar. It's Evo Rogue. I was a fan of Rogue when she only had her absorption powers. Clearly, personality plays a big factor. If all the X-men lost their powers, I'd be able to recognize which was my favorite. They're not blank slates and I never said they were. Powers allows characters to do certain things, and yes I do derive an enjoyment from seeing her punch things. But I never said it was the determining factor. And I doubt it is for anyone, else we wouldn't really be a fan in the first place. It's a preference to see her with those powers, nothing more.

[Shaid O Gray]

That's kinda what I was trying to say. The potential for enjoyment goes down when she loses those powers.

I like Rogue as a character, but I like it even more when she's cocky and hits stuff. That's a lot less likely when she doesn't have physical powers.

Well being cocky doesn't have anything to do with her powers. And the 90's and 00's I referred to were bad because of the writing, not because of powerloss. Even when she still had the Ms M powers in the late 90's they started to write her badly, nothing but whining and angsting over Gambit. Carey's been writing her pretty cocky and willing to throw down, she is just less succesful because she's physically weaker.

But wanting to see her succeed in kicking ass and her being willing and trying to kick ass are two different things. one is connected to power, the other is personality, regardless of power.

[AcesX1X]

CC made rogue plenty confident without any powers whatsoever in x-treme x-men. i think you people are making up fibs to support your wild theories.

[Goshin]

Dammit Longshot is NOT a bad character!!!! Shit! If anything Gambit is a clone of him!! Longshot had a thing for Roguen wore a jacket and flipped around throwing shit years before Remy molested lil 'Ro. If you colored Longshot's hair brown and gave him exploding cards you have Gambit. I like both characters but shit! Enough with the Longshot at least in the book he's in he's gotten more lines in one issue than Northstar, Iceman and Dazzler have gotten combined in a years time in Uncrappy....

[RoguefanAM]

Well being cocky doesn't have anything to do with her powers. And the 90's and 00's I referred to were bad because of the writing, not because of powerloss. Even when she still had the Ms M powers in the late 90's they started to write her badly, nothing but whining and angsting over Gambit. Carey's been writing her pretty cocky and willing to throw down, she is just less succesful because she's physically weaker.

But wanting to see her succeed in kicking ass and her being willing and trying to kick ass are two different things. one is connected to power, the other is personality, regardless of power.

Then I guess I should've said confidence. You can say one thing and still mean something else altogether.

As a Rogue fan, I didn't enjoy the 90s either. And yes because of the angsting and whiney. But when it came to things besides Gambit, she did challenge it with the same fire she did in the 80s.

I don't think Carey's Rogue has been very cocky. She bad mouthed Pandemic, but other than that she's been quiet and kind of sarcastic. Even after she absorbed Ares, she wasn't particularly mouthy or confident.

And I don't think that's necessarily true. Sometimes Rogue was clearly outmatched (when she had Ms Marvel's powers) and she stubbornly tried to anyway.

CC made rogue plenty confident without any powers whatsoever in x-treme x-men. i think you people are making up fibs to support your wild theories.

Well, that's kinda what I brought up with powers influencing writers. Even in the 90s, with the horrible writing and angsting, she was still confident.

After CC (him being the one to depower her), everyone wrote her differently - usually without that trait.

[Hi-Fi]

I don't know, guys. Do I miss Rogue punching through walls and kissing her enemies? Yes.

BUT... I love mature Rogue. It's character development and I'm all for it. She's still cocky. She's still sassy. But now she's way more resourceful and smart about her decisions (well, not WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more, she still formed a team that blew up on her face, and that's PURE Rogue).

And we can still get stuff like this from time to time:

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8129/xmenlegacy227017.jpg

So yeah, I think we Rogue fans are lucky that Mike Carey loves her and seems to understand her character so well, because if you imagine what could be happening with her if he wasn't writing an X-Book, well... I don't even like to think about it!

[Nevets F]

hi-fi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was what I was going to say...the only person I want to hear from on this subject.

Personally, I was always more of a fan of the Ms Marvel powers than her actual mutant powers. I hope she has some form of them back one day.

[darknessatnoon]

sweat stained bra. yeah, she's still ram tough.

[The Lucky One]

Dammit Longshot is NOT a bad character!!!! Shit! If anything Gambit is a clone of him!! Longshot had a thing for Roguen wore a jacket and flipped around throwing shit years before Remy molested lil 'Ro. If you colored Longshot's hair brown and gave him exploding cards you have Gambit. I like both characters but shit! Enough with the Longshot at least in the book he's in he's gotten more lines in one issue than Northstar, Iceman and Dazzler have gotten combined in a years time in Uncrappy....

Dude, settle down. :wink: It's just darkness, and no one takes him seriously. We all know Longshot's a good character, and thanks to PAD he's being introduced to a new generation of readers. You can't please all of the people all of the time, and all that.

-D

[witness]

Dammit Longshot is NOT a bad character!!!! Shit! If anything Gambit is a clone of him!! Longshot had a thing for Roguen wore a jacket and flipped around throwing shit years before Remy molested lil 'Ro. If you colored Longshot's hair brown and gave him exploding cards you have Gambit. I like both characters but shit! Enough with the Longshot at least in the book he's in he's gotten more lines in one issue than Northstar, Iceman and Dazzler have gotten combined in a years time in Uncrappy....

If its any consolation it looks like Gambit is going the way of Longshot (i.e. to be practically ignored by the writers).

[Talisman]

I don't know, guys. Do I miss Rogue punching through walls and kissing her enemies? Yes.

BUT... I love mature Rogue. It's character development and I'm all for it. She's still cocky. She's still sassy. But now she's way more resourceful and smart about her decisions (well, not WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more, she still formed a team that blew up on her face, and that's PURE Rogue).

And we can still get stuff like this from time to time:

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8129/xmenlegacy227017.jpg

So yeah, I think we Rogue fans are lucky that Mike Carey loves her and seems to understand her character so well, because if you imagine what could be happening with her if he wasn't writing an X-Book, well... I don't even like to think about it!
Scenes like that make me want Rogue to accidentally steal Karla Sofen's powers permanently.

[Optic Rage!]

I'll admit, TAS Rogue is by far my fave version of Rogue(she made TAS for me) I think it's the bushy hair.

I was bored with her for most of this decade/late 90's.

I did enjoy her in Supernovas, very fun, and digged the outfit/art/hood. But i can say this is easily the most excited i have been for her in..ever. I LOVE the new outfit(my fave costume right now), and the art in Legacy, she looks fantastic. And i'm looking forward to see how Carey handles her in Legacy, if the issues are as high quality as the Annual, then i think we can expect good things.

[timbox]

Dude, settle down. :wink: It's just darkness, and no one takes him seriously. We all know Longshot's a good character, and thanks to PAD he's being introduced to a new generation of readers. You can't please all of the people all of the time, and all that.

-D

Yes, Longshot is just like Gambit.

[jarrod]

I think Outback Rogue was my fave period. Silvestri costume was awesome.

[darknessatnoon]

Gambit may be a copy of Longshot but at least he has ten fingers.

[timbox]

Strain 88 infected and Hecatomb-enhanced Rogue was the best version ever.

[The Lucky One]

Scenes like that make me want Rogue to accidentally steal Karla Sofen's powers permanently.

I might have this totally wrong, but doesn't Karla have to be in contact with her moonstone to use her powers? If that's the case, would Rogue be able to steal her powers permanently, or would they disappear as soon as one of them wasn't touching the stone?

-D

[Seccruz]

Scenes like that make me want Rogue to accidentally steal Karla Sofen's powers permanently.

That alternate Carol Danvers from Ms Marvel #09-10 is still around, she could absorb her...

[Optic Rage!]

I enjoy Ms Marvel the most when she's a cunt, like that time in her ongoing when she kicked Rogue in the ribs while she was on the ground, that was a total bitch move.

[Hi-Fi]

I enjoy Ms Marvel the most when she's a cunt, like that time in her ongoing when she kicked Rogue in the ribs while she was on the ground, that was a total bitch move.
Well, that bitch is gonna have to deal with Mommy in December. I hope Mystique cuts her head off.

[timbox]

Well, that bitch is gonna have to deal with Mommy in December. I hope Mystique cuts her head off.

I hope Mystique has a big enough knife to get through Ms Marvel's fat head.

[chrissstopher]

I might have this totally wrong, but doesn't Karla have to be in contact with her moonstone to use her powers? If that's the case, would Rogue be able to steal her powers permanently, or would they disappear as soon as one of them wasn't touching the stone?

-D

Originally yes, but not anymore... now the Moonstone is a part of her essence.

[darknessatnoon]

I do not want Brian Reed "writing" Mystique. He can feel free to have Mystiq, though.

[Hi-Fi]

Strain 88 infected and Hecatomb-enhanced Rogue was the best version ever.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3162/xmen199021.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9118/xmen199022.jpg

[Fatguy]

I hated infected Rogue.

Definitely not a fan of brooding Rogue.

[coconutphone]

Well, that bitch is gonna have to deal with Mommy in December. I hope Mystique cuts her head off.


LOL What a great book her ongoing will be then. Next month in "Ms Marvel's Head"...

Yeah Carey has worked wonders with the character who had descended into mopeyness ever since the 90s and her relationship with Gambit soured. The movies didn't help.

[DeadXMan]

I knew about Rogue's strength and flight before I knew she touched people that was an added bonus.

Non-Ms Marvel Rogue is like Wolverine without his claws Cap without his shield, or a white Nightcrawler with no tail

and I would agree with you, until I saw her combine Scott's and Emma's powers to take out a squad of mercenaries.

[mikeb]

Well, that bitch is gonna have to deal with Mommy in December. I hope Mystique cuts her head off.

The last encounter I can recall between Carol and Mystique took place WAY back in 1982.:frown: Brian Reed, to me doesn't write guests good in Ms.Marvel!
I wish the encounter was written by the same guy who wrote Get Mystique! I loved the scene were Mystique pukes that nasty brown stuff on Logan!:biggrin: