Statistics for X-Men #1 (1991)

[MonkMayfair]

Hi folks, new to the forum but a long-time reader and collector (40+ years!).

I hope someone can help me with this, or at least point me in a helpful direction. I'm a comedian/actor/artist and I'm working on a project involving the 1991 X-Men comic in all of its variant versions. In researching the project, I'm having trouble pinning down the actual sales numbers.

It seems to be universally accepted that it was the best selling comic book of all time, but I'm reading numbers that range from 5 to 8 million copies. That's quite a large margin of error.....anyone have any concrete figures? (Not Concrete figures, that would be a different thread....)

I'm particularly curious as to the breakdown of issues sold; more of the deluxe/gatefold version or more of the newstand version? Did the A-D covers sell about the same each, or did the Wolverine cover stomp all over the Magneto cover?

In truth, I have a lot of questions about this comic and I'm a little desperate for data.....Thanks for any help you might be able to give me.

Emmett F
Mutant Comic

[limerick]

I'm coming up with 7.1 million copies for all formats.....how does that sound??....I'm pretty sure the standard 5 covers were printed in equal numbers but I'm not 100% certain about that

[Goshin]

they printed so many copies it not worth shit i think the price is still like 7 dollars after almost 20 years

the only copy i bought was the big one wiht all the covers together. the other ones were a waste of money

[RolandJP]

7.1 million. Lets see the modern X-title sales around 120,000.

SO that means that X-men #1 sales equaled 7 years worth of X-force. X-factor and Wolverine combined.

[Goshin]

Wow that really shows how low x-titles have fallen in the last decade uncanny and regular x-men used to be #1 and #2 every month

[Optic Rage!]

Wow that really shows how low x-titles have fallen in the last decade uncanny and regular x-men used to be #1 and #2 every month

Not X-titles. The comic book industry.

Blame Video games, and the internet.

[MonkMayfair]

I think there's a case to be made that we should blame......X-Men #1. At least blame it for starting the snowball at the top of the mountain.

Here's my argument: If 7.1 million copies sold (thanks, Limerick, we'll go with this number as a base line), and at best MAYBE 10% of them were actually opened and read, then only 710,000 copies were bought for the story. The other 6.4 million (or so) were bought as investments by the speculators and the collectors who felt obliged to buy all 5 covers, because.....well, we weren't sure why, we just knew we HAD to.

So later, when those same speculators took all their multiple copies into the local comic shop and tried to sell them, they were laughed at. The store owner likely had a long box or two sitting in the back already. And suddenly, the idea of investing in NEW comics became pointless. And in 1993, the bottom dropped out of the collectible comic market and Marvel's sales slumped to the point of bankruptcy. And comic sales never recovered....

Now, there were plenty of other crazy tempest-in-a-teapot sort of fad comics at the time (the Death of Superman, Todd McFarlane's Spider-Man, Unity comics, etc.), but none of them posted the kind of numbers that X-Men put up. Its success was the market's downfall.... the disillusionment was crippling to the industry.

Not to say the video gaming and internet entertainment didn't take away a huge chunk of the market as well, but when $13 million worth of investment doesn't pay off for any of the buyers, it leaves a very bad taste in its wake.

ps, I'm finding plenty of copies in NM and lower for cover price, or less.....And so far, I'm finding all 5 in about equal numbers as well, but that's not to say the direct market didn't get pushed to sell more of the deluxe, since it likely had a higher profit margin. And I'm still curious about the newsstand copies, (UPC code on the cover and a glossy ad in the center) how did it sell compared to the direct market editions?

Emmett F
Mutant Comic

[♥*♥*♥*Sonic Bliss*♥*♥*♥]

it didn't sell seven million, it had a print run of that amount. I think it sold maybe two million at the most.

[DungeonmasterJim]

(SNIPPED)

Not to say the video gaming and internet entertainment didn't take away a huge chunk of the market as well, (SNIPPED)

Emmett F
Mutant Comic

Does anybody know when video games potential roughed up the comics genre. I'm pretty old school in that I go back to the days of Atari 2600 and Intellivision systems. Even back then early 1980's I would say my friends were more into video games than comics and I was part of the geek/nerd crew.Everyone seemed into video games and comics were 'weird' to the general populace of my school from what I remember - I am getting old. :redface:

DM Jim

[prince_nightcrawler]

Ah, I look at those covers and I think remember when the X-Men comics included the real X-Men? *sigh*

[ZNOP]

Ah, I look at those covers and I think remember when the X-Men comics included the real X-Men? *sigh*

Those were the days, huh? Now, eveybody and their momma is an X-Men. Namor? Mutant? By definition... Yes. An X-Men? By no means.

[Triforce]

it didn't sell seven million, it had a print run of that amount. I think it sold maybe two million at the most.

I have a hard time believing that.
If Marvel overprinted that much comics, X-Men #1 by itself would've bankrubted the company.

[prince_nightcrawler]

Those were the days, huh? Now, eveybody and their momma is an X-Men. Namor? Mutant? By definition... Yes. An X-Men? By no means.

...exactly...

[Joe Franklin]

it didn't sell seven million, it had a print run of that amount. I think it sold maybe two million at the most.

The retailers bought the 7 million or more printed by Marvel.

The retailers however, have still not sold all 7 million or more to customers yet.

[witness]

7.1 million. Lets see the modern X-title sales around 120,000.

SO that means that X-men #1 sales equaled 7 years worth of X-force. X-factor and Wolverine combined.

To be fair though there are a lot more titles now than in 1991 (wolverine alone has about 400 different titles, it seems). I wonder whether its like TV (more channels to choose from so the audience is spread more thinly).

[Sighphi]

Not X-titles. The comic book industry.

Blame Video games, and the internet.

He is talking about the spot the X-men were in not the sales.

X-men around the 90s were the center of the Marvel Universe.
Now they are left to a corner all the way in some island where there dont even have one solid storyline but a bunch that go nowhere or never finish.

A year-plus has gone by and we dont know squat about Hope, what happened with Beast and his science crew? Prof X is back and no one made a big deal, etc,etc.

[MonkMayfair]

it didn't sell seven million, it had a print run of that amount. I think it sold maybe two million at the most.

Interesting.....any sources to back that up?

Emmett F
Mutant Comic

[limerick]

it didn't sell seven million, it had a print run of that amount. I think it sold maybe two million at the most.
You could be right--The print run was 7.1 million but I'm not sure how much sold

[MonkMayfair]

So, if this is true, did all of the 7.1 million that were published end up in direct market stores, but 5 million didn't get sold? So were all the comics shops of the time stuck with all the extras? I thought that the direct market was developed on the idea of pre-orders, to keep from overprinting and having to deal with returns (like newsstand copies have always been handled).

Unless what you're saying is that dealers ended up with all the unsold copies, in which case they were still sold, but not to consumers, and not at full cover price. And when those shops closed, as most did after '93, what happened to those 5 million? Trashed? Stored? Donated to hospitals for tax deductions?

In all my research I have not found a number as low as 2 million sales anywhere. It's possible, but seems unlikely....

Not arguing the point, still just looking for answers.

Emmett F
Mutant Comic

[matthewaos]

Except that most of the copies were not sold, most of the guys who bought it were already buying comics and they bought the issue multiple times.

[RolandJP]

Atthe most I have seen like 5 to 15 copies of X-men #1 in LCS. That proves a fair share of them sold.

[MonkMayfair]

Except that most of the copies were not sold, most of the guys who bought it were already buying comics and they bought the issue multiple times.

Color me confused. If they bought multiple copies, it was still sold, just not to millions of customers......Are you saying that the copies were not RE-sold? That I can definitely agree with.

[matthewaos]

It sold millions, though not to millions of fans, more like the same fans that were buying at the time. I know people who own all covers for example. And as far as I know, the sales that we see are estimates. They represent how many copies have sold in comic book stores, not comics sold to fans. In my LCS there are three X-Men #1s for seven years now. Many copies left unsold, at least that what I have heard from comic book shop owners and stuff.

[Joey]

almost everyone I know that were into comics back then bought all 5 covers

my LCS has quite a few in the back issue boxes

[coconutphone]

Raise your hand if you bought all 5 covers.

*raises hand*

I was 14! I didn't know any better! *sobs*

[Jmacq1]

Raise your hand if you bought all 5 covers.

*raises hand*

I was 14! I didn't know any better! *sobs*

Ditto. I remember the hype around the launch of that title as being HUGE. About the only other things in that era that came close were the Death of Superman and the launching of the Image brand overall. Heck, I bought two of the "deluxe" fold-out edition because I wanted to remove the cover and post that inside-cover pin-up of pretty much every X-Character that existed at the time.

It seems like such a strange time looking back on it now...the die-cut holographic foil laser-etched limited editions galore.....

People paying obscene amounts for Valiant comics (which now tend to reside in the bargain boxes). Heck, people were convinced Valiant was going to be the next Marvel (if Image didn't get there first).

Comic shops popping up practically every other block.

Ahh, the halcyon days of youth...or something.

[MonkMayfair]

Thanks guys! These are exactly the sort of stories I'm looking for!

The first phase of my project is almost ready, I can unveil soon....

Emmett F
Mutant Comic

[limerick]

Raise your hand if you bought all 5 covers.

*raises hand*

I was 14! I didn't know any better! *sobs*
I have to say I resisted the urge and went with the Cyclops/Wolvie cover only(Would have preferred the 'Neto one).......I do remember the hype was unbelieveable......A little like the McFarlane Spiderman comic('Spiderman'??)around the same time......

[limerick]

Ditto. I remember the hype around the launch of that title as being HUGE. About the only other things in that era that came close were the Death of Superman and the launching of the Image brand overall. Heck, I bought two of the "deluxe" fold-out edition because I wanted to remove the cover and post that inside-cover pin-up of pretty much every X-Character that existed at the time.

It seems like such a strange time looking back on it now...the die-cut holographic foil laser-etched limited editions galore.....

People paying obscene amounts for Valiant comics (which now tend to reside in the bargain boxes). Heck, people were convinced Valiant was going to be the next Marvel (if Image didn't get there first).

Comic shops popping up practically every other block.

Ahh, the halcyon days of youth...or something.
Nice post.....brings back memories......there was even a shitty little comic shop in the Irish town I went to university in.....A few years before that would have been unthinkable

[Nevets F]

Color me confused. If they bought multiple copies, it was still sold, just not to millions of customers......Are you saying that the copies were not RE-sold? That I can definitely agree with.

People are trying to make it way more difficult than it is, and are trying to make it seem like less than what it was as well.

For the purposes of what you are asking...yes, it "sold" 7.1 million. Whether or not that was all to stores that never sold them to customers, or to collectors that bought 10 copies a peice, the bottom line is Marvel sold 7.1 million copies.

[MonkMayfair]

People are trying to make it way more difficult than it is, and are trying to make it seem like less than what it was as well.

For the purposes of what you are asking...yes, it "sold" 7.1 million. Whether or not that was all to stores that never sold them to customers, or to collectors that bought 10 copies a peice, the bottom line is Marvel sold 7.1 million copies.

I can get behind that. But I'm still trying to make sure that all those copies are out there somewhere. Is there any chance that people who bought crazy numbers of multiples (not just all 5 covers, but multiple sets) eventually just trashed them to make room? Anybody know of anyone who intentionally destroyed issues? Are they all bagged and boarded and waiting on a market change?

[MonkMayfair]

Just got some feedback from Comics Buyers Guide, and the 7.1 million number is looking pretty accurate. More detailed numbers are coming, there's a staffer who's compiling sales figures year by year and he hasn't gotten to '91 yet.
But the year-end sales figures, as listed in their Annual edition, put the sales between 7 and 7.5 million.
And, as has been noted here, your LCS likely ate a large number of those copies. Whereas Superman #75 had a full sell-through and went into multiple printings, the comics shops ended up with a large surplus of X-Men #1's A-D, with the gatefold cover selling the most. And most people who bought it, bought more than one, but not enough to clear out the excess. Many long boxes in many storage spaces...
Thanks for all your stories, if you find more, please feel free to share.

[MonkMayfair]

Here's a link to the first of my X-Men #1 projects, feel free to spread it around....

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=X-Men+%231+toilet&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_sop=10&_odkw=X-Men+%231&_osacat=0

Not asking anyone here to bid on it, but wouldn't mind some feedback. Thanks for all your help!

[RolandJP]

Here's a link to the first of my X-Men #1 projects, feel free to spread it around....

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=X-Men+%231+toilet&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_sop=10&_odkw=X-Men+%231&_osacat=0

Not asking anyone here to bid on it, but wouldn't mind some feedback. Thanks for all your help!

HAHAHAHA you are my pick for X-poster of the month. Just for the creativity.



:biggrin:

a Becka Monroe toilet would make worstblog happy.

[Prodigy55]

Here's a link to the first of my X-Men #1 projects, feel free to spread it around....

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=X-Men+%231+toilet&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_sop=10&_odkw=X-Men+%231&_osacat=0

Not asking anyone here to bid on it, but wouldn't mind some feedback. Thanks for all your help!

That is so amazing!

[flapjaxx]

Many informed people I've listened to make compelling arguments for the "speculator mentality" NOT being what tanked the comics industry in the late '90s. Of course it was a contributing factor, but the real problem was DISTRIBUTION--specifically, the fiasco involving Marvel and Heroes World. If the threadstarter's really interested in the fall of comics in the '90s, I'd recommend researching that more than researching X-Men #1 sales figures.

You also might want to research the sales figures that Marvel reported themselves once a year in every one of their titles. If you look at those, you'll see that for most titles the average number of copies printed/sold didn't really change THAT much from about 1988 to 1997. The steep drop-off in sales came well AFTER the multiple covers and foil covers gimmickery had peaked (around '94). There's a clear link in changing distribution methods and lower sales. The regular 750,000 readers of Uncanny X-Men--those were people that Claremont had cultivated and brought in; they were not speculators. Here are some interesting facts I remember learning from those yearly sales figures (I don't have the numbers in front of me):

-For a long while it was a very reliable fact that for every three copies of a comic on NEWS STANDS (as opposed to comic shops), only two would sell and thus Marvel would have to accept a return on 1/3 of their news stand print run. During '95-'98 or so, the average number of copies PRINTED always declined a bit, but the SALES didn't really decrease that much; Marvel was just printing fewer copies for its news stand audience, and the numbers show that they were having to accept returns LOWER than 1/3. In other words, they were selling a higher percentage of their news stand comics; they were retaining those readers. The big change happened, again, when distribution methods changed and Marvel decided it could no longer stomach the returns (even though they were a lower percentage than previously). So they sent waaaay fewer copies to news stands.

That's when the sales really started to plummet, because the fiasco with Heroes World was occurring at the same time: comic shops were no longer riding the spectator boom, and now they had to deal with a different distributor besides. They had to deal with Diamond (which itself was changing as a reaction to Marvel leaving) AND with Heroes World (which was not very organized). Double whammy: some people could no longer find the titles on news stands, others couldn't find them on comic shop shelves. There were fewer copies in supermarkets, drugstores, etc. because Marvel (going through bankruptcy) didn't want to stomach paying for the returns. And there were fewer copies in comic shops because the remaining comic shop owners didn't want to take risks and were having to put up with changing distribution--so they were ordering more conservatively.

Actually, it was a triple whammy, because it was the late '90s, and even though some mainstream titles were getting better (Marvel Knights, in particular), many readers by that point had stomached so many crap '90s comics that they were looking for a reason to stop reading.

There is no easy, simple explanation for anything so complex as this, but that's as simple as I can make it.

7.1 million copies of X-Men #1 wasn't really a problem. Was it really "speculators" who bought so many copies, or were most of those people "fans"/"collectors"? I bought one of the regular covers and the deluxe cover, but as a 12-year-old kid, I wasn't REALISTICALLY thinking about how they might be worth something--I just loved the X-Men and thought it'd be cool to get a few different covers. I don't know anyone who bought it thinking it was going to be a gold mine. X-Men #1 selling millions of copies at cover price is a lot different from, say, all those incentive comics--like maybe a VELVET cover of Lady Death selling for $20 right up front, if you ordered it from a certain mail-order comic shop. The real speculators, the guys who paid $200 for a Spider-Man #1 Limtied Run Silver Cover or $50 for a Dawn #1 LEATHER P0RNO Edition . . . that's totally different from Marvel flooding the streets with 7.1 million copies of X-Men #1. Because the latter case actually made millions of regular kids EXCITED about and AWARE of comics, and it didn't cost them a bundle, really. ($1.50 for 4 of the 5 covers).

All I know is that half the kids I knew in 1991 knew who all the X-Men were. They knew what was going on with the Marvel Universe. They loved it. Between the trading cards and the comics, like 70% of boys I knew...knew about what was happening in the Marvel Universe in 1991, even if they "only" bought maybe 10-20 comics a year (that was NORMAL back then, for the AVERAGE boy to do, to read comics from time to time). And we didn't even have a comic shop within an hour of our town. We just had regular little general stores that sold a heeelllllllllllllll of a lot of comics back then, to kids who ate it up. This was before the Marvel movies and modern cartoons--y'know, the things that made most kids in the '00s aware of Marvel characters. Y'know, because for us the actual comics were distributed everywhere.

P.S. Apologies if I've misrepresented some fact or figure. I think it was either 2/3 or 1/3 of news stand copies that would sell. Whichever it was, it held true all throughout the '80s and early '90s and was an acceptable ratio of sales to returns. So everyone who thinks that unsold copies of X-Men #1 was a problem, uh, there were always TENS if not HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of unsold news stand copies of EVERY top Marvel title every month for DECADES. It was part of the business; you print more to get your product out there, get name recognition, and you swallow the losses because they're way less than the profits when you have that BROAD of a large potential audience. When Marvel started sending somewhat fewer copies to the news stands (around '95 or so), at first they were getting fewer returns--news stand sales were solid. Then they couldn't stomach even those few returns, and started sending way fewer copies total than they were actually selling at news stands previously.

[MonkMayfair]

Flapjaxx, great and thoughtful post. Thanks!
Like John Byrne's "Faithful 50,000", you may be entirely correct in your assertion that Chris Claremont had 750,000 fans who were faithfully following his storylines as he moved over into a new title. But even if all of those folks bought all 5 variants, that's still only about half of the total sold.
The distribution issues between Marvel, Diamond, and Heroes World would probably make a great book sometime....We may never know how many went out and how many went back.
I guess my opinion about the impact of the overselling of X-Men #1 was based on the amount of unsold copies that ended up stuck in the LCS basements. But upon reflection, even if they took a hit, it probably wasn't crippling. The overpricing of new comics probably had more to do with turning off the long time collectors than the abundance of variant covers that sold at or below their cover price....
Great food for thought, thanks again.