How long before Cyclops gets sucker punched/slapped over his recent choices?

[ProfeZZor X]

You know its just a matter of time before all of this "I'm making things up as I go along" crap blows up in his face.

Tensions among the X-Men are strained as it is, and there are a number of people hinting that they've just about had enough of Scott's BS. It just seems that each time he opens his mouth, he does more damage than good. Either by putting his fellow team mates in uncomfortable situations, being verbally offensive, or abusing their trust.

It's gonna happen... I know it, and you know it. It's just a matter of when and with who.

Discuss.

[rwsmith]

Well, Wolverine has already pimp-slapped him once (first issue of X-Force) and more recently tackled him through a window. But, at the end of the day, I think he agrees with Scott's decisions and is really glad he's not the one having to make them (hence his backing off after the initial outburst).

My guess on the person who is ultimately going to either come to blows with Scott over this or fracture the X-men right down the middle over it is Beast. It's already been heavily foreshadowed, and Fraction has said more than once that he is the conscience of the team. We'll see.

[worstblogever]

Wolverine just got him in the last issue of X-Force, if I recall. So, until the next time?

[durty dee]

He and Tony will be crucified on a hill on a hot summer day...... Irredeamable Antman will also be crucified behind them and will not accept God. lol

[rwsmith]

Y'know, Jean coming back could really throw a wrench into everything (which is why I could see just that happening during Second Coming).

She and Beast and some folks end up going one way, Cyclops and Emma and the rest go the other. Could be interesting in a New Avengers/Mighty Avengers kind of way. And we'd get two separate teams of X-men in two different books again.

Which brings up a better question: If Jean comes back (either through Hope or in another way) and she and Beast split, who would join them and why?

I could see any of the following:

- Iceman (would be appalled at what Scott has done w/ X-Force)
- Dazzler (same reason as Iceman)
- Rogue (doesn't really seem to like Scott much anyway, especially since he recently demoted her to babysitter)
- Cable (probably agrees with Scott's methods, but obviously close to Jean; my guess is he goes with Jean if her coming back has something to do with Hope)
- Cannonball (not a killer; goes with Jean and Cable)
- Colossus (same reason as Iceman, Cannonball and Dazzler; doesn't believe in killing except as a last resort)
- Nightcrawler (same as above)
- Northstar (goes with his friends, Dazzler and Iceman)
- Pixie (goes with this team b/c not a killer; also goes b/c Scott already has Vanisher to teleport them around)
- The rest of the New Mutants (Moonstar, Karma, Sunspot, etc.)
- Xavier (for obvious reasons)

Now, as for who stays:

- Cyclops (obviously)
- Emma Frost (she'd understand that Scott did what he thought best and would support him on that)
- Wolverine (despite his emotional connection to Jean, he followed Scott and supported his decisions, so he'd have to stand by him)
- Psylocke (has no problems with killing)
- X-23 (same reason)
- Domino (same reason; she and the two above are like Cyclops' very own femme fatales)
- Archangel (in a dark place right now)
- Warpath (might be on the fence as he still doesn't seem all that comfortable with some of the things he's done recently, but ultimately he stays)
- The Cuckoos (stay with Scott; period)
- Elixir (not a killer, but feels obligated to stay)
- Vanisher (stays b/c only Elixir can remove his tumor)
- Hellion (hot-headed, but I'm thinking he stick with Cyclops)
- The rest of the New/Young X-men kids (Rockslide, Surge, Mercury, etc.)
- Magneto (would certainly be closer to Scott's vision than Jean and Beast's)
- Namor (because of Emma; has no problem with killing)

That's how I'd see it breaking down anyway. Still leaves a lot of mutants in both camps/books for a writer to play with. I'm thinking Mike Carey takes Jean and Beast's team over in X-men Legacy, and Fraction keeps Scott's group in Uncanny. Obviously X-Force stays the same, as does New Mutants.

Just my $.02 on potential post-Second Coming fallout.

[ProfeZZor X]

Well, Wolverine has already pimp-slapped him once (first issue of X-Force) and more recently tackled him through a window. But, at the end of the day, I think he agrees with Scott's decisions and is really glad he's not the one having to make them (hence his backing off after the initial outburst).

My guess on the person who is ultimately going to either come to blows with Scott over this or fracture the X-men right down the middle over it is Beast. It's already been heavily foreshadowed, and Fraction has said more than once that he is the conscience of the team. We'll see.

Beast weighs heavily in my favor, but you never know with writers these days. The least likely person can always play a role in it all too. And it may not necessarily be a direct result of his actions on Nation X, but more along the approach of the position they're in because of how he handled things in the beginning, and how he's seemingly undone Charles' work after all these years.

[jmc247]

Magneto is set to deliver a massive blow to Scott over his recient choices by telling him that he is making the right choices to protect the mutant race.

Scott isn't going to like hearing that.

[rwsmith]

Oh, I forgot Xavier. He goes with Jean and Beast and Magneto goes with Scott. And Namor also stays with Scott and Emma. In that case, I will edit and send Northstar with Jean and Beast (he could go either way IMO).

[darknessatnoon]

Beast ordered a hit on Bruce Banner. He has embraced Scott's ways.

[Slant]

I don't think they'd split, honestly. I mean, I'm pretty sure most of the non-X Men mutants would rather live on the island than go back to San Fran after Utopia. You know they'll have a target on their back as far as Norman goes.. And as for X-Men it wouldn't make much sense to take 6 or 7 X-Men and split when theirs no other mutants on the mainland.

[ProfeZZor X]

Oh, I forgot Xavier. He goes with Jean and Beast and Magneto goes with Scott. And Namor also stays with Scott and Emma. In that case, I will edit and send Northstar with Jean and Beast (he could go either way IMO).

Darth Cyclops... I like the sound of that.

[rwsmith]

Well, I would hope that they'd make it a bit more balanced than the New (anti-registration) and Mighty (pro-registration) Avengers. Essentially Jean and Beast are trying to keep the moral high-ground (i.e., we're better than our enemies and don't embrace their methods) while Scott and Emma believe they are fighting for survival (i.e., proactively taking out the X-men's enemies can be rationalized). But I don't think either team really needs to be portrayed as "right" while the other is clearly "wrong" (as was kind of the case during the Civil War fallout).

I could see certain characters struggling with their choices (like Cable, who used to be the poster-boy for proactive action; or Warpath, who deep down is still not a killer), which would keep it interesting. Especially those who find themselves on Magneto's side. Then again, Xavier has made some pretty suspect decisions himself, and for awhile was as much of a pariah as Magneto.

[Slant]

There's not much point in splitting until mutants get repowered. Doesn't seem like it would make much sense to split with all of them in one place right now. There'd be no point in a group of X-Men going back to New York or somewhere when ALL the mutants are still on the island.

[rwsmith]

Of course, we've seen this kind of philosophical divide before (between the X-men and the original X-Force, when Colossus went and joined the Acolytes, etc.), but never on this widespread a scale across pretty much all remaining X-men and even mutantkind in general. They've never been in a position where they were really facing extinction before either, and Jean's team could represent hope (if somehow her return allows mutant births to start up again) while Cyclops' represents pragmatism (in that they are still facing extinction because, even with new mutants being born, their numbers are so low).

But, yeah, I agree that it would be pointless for them to split unless Jean's return also signalled the undoing of Scarlett Witch's "no more mutants" edict.

[ProfeZZor X]

There's not much point in splitting until mutants get repowered. Doesn't seem like it would make much sense to split with all of them in one place right now. There'd be no point in a group of X-Men going back to New York or somewhere when ALL the mutants are still on the island.

I don't think it makes a difference if they were repowered or not. It still wouldn't change their viewpoint on the matter. And if they were repowered after the fact, they'd already made up their mind on who to side with.

[Slant]

I don't think it makes a difference if they were repowered or not. It still wouldn't change their viewpoint on the matter. And if they were repowered after the fact, they'd already made up their mind on who to side with.

Its the fact that there isn't enough mutants to go splitting them up. I'm not talking about X-Men, but about mutants in general. They are already all in one place. You can't split them up without it making little sense.

Splitting them in half between two sides is redundant and isn't any different from the way it is now, except they're all in 2 places instead of 1. And you can't exactly tell them all to go back home now, and scatter about. Mutants have to be in the millions again for it to happen.

Unless you want a team of X-Men to reside in a place where there are no mutants.

Plus, the last issue of Uncanny already has them setting up a leadership board.

[Azure]

You know its just a matter of time before all of this "I'm making things up as I go along" crap blows up in his face.

I dunno.... there's a lot of people in the world who consistently get away with pointless 'crap', ProfeZZor X.

[jmc247]

we've seen this kind of philosophical divide before (between the X-men and the original X-Force, when Colossus went and joined the Acolytes, etc.)

We have seen Polaris do the same and clashed with both Xavier and Scott over philosophy regarding killing bad guys as well.


but never on this widespread a scale across pretty much all remaining X-men and even mutantkind in general. They've never been in a position where they were really facing extinction before either, and Jean's team could represent hope (if somehow her return allows mutant births to start up again) while Cyclops' represents pragmatism (in that they are still facing extinction because, even with new mutants being born, their numbers are so low).

Yup as long as the status quo for M-Day stands Cyclops view will be the only game in town.

[Red Lotus]

Magneto is set to deliver a massive blow to Scott over his recient choices by telling him that he is making the right choices to protect the mutant race.

Scott isn't going to like hearing that.

I'll agree. It should be a real wake up call to Scott to have Magneto want to be on his side.

[ProfeZZor X]

I dunno.... there's a lot of people in the world who consistently get away with pointless 'crap', ProfeZZor X.

I know what you mean, they're SAAAASHAAAA waste of peoples time... and not worth the effort.

[Optic Rage!]

Have your not been reading any of the writer interviews for the last..3 years?

[ProfeZZor X]

Have your not been reading any of the writer interviews for the last..3 years?

And since when do writers ever give straight answers?

[MuhollandDriver]

Y'know, Jean coming back could really throw a wrench into everything (which is why I could see just that happening during Second Coming).

She and Beast and some folks end up going one way, Cyclops and Emma and the rest go the other. Could be interesting in a New Avengers/Mighty Avengers kind of way. And we'd get two separate teams of X-men in two different books again.

Which brings up a better question: If Jean comes back (either through Hope or in another way) and she and Beast split, who would join them and why?

I could see any of the following:

- Iceman (would be appalled at what Scott has done w/ X-Force)
- Dazzler (same reason as Iceman)
- Rogue (doesn't really seem to like Scott much anyway, especially since he recently demoted her to babysitter)
- Cable (probably agrees with Scott's methods, but obviously close to Jean; my guess is he goes with Jean if her coming back has something to do with Hope)
- Cannonball (not a killer; goes with Jean and Cable)
- Colossus (same reason as Iceman, Cannonball and Dazzler; doesn't believe in killing except as a last resort)
- Nightcrawler (same as above)
- Northstar (goes with his friends, Dazzler and Iceman)
- Pixie (goes with this team b/c not a killer; also goes b/c Scott already has Vanisher to teleport them around)
- The rest of the New Mutants (Moonstar, Karma, Sunspot, etc.)
- Xavier (for obvious reasons)

Now, as for who stays:

- Cyclops (obviously)
- Emma Frost (she'd understand that Scott did what he thought best and would support him on that)
- Wolverine (despite his emotional connection to Jean, he followed Scott and supported his decisions, so he'd have to stand by him)
- Psylocke (has no problems with killing)
- X-23 (same reason)
- Domino (same reason; she and the two above are like Cyclops' very own femme fatales)
- Archangel (in a dark place right now)
- Warpath (might be on the fence as he still doesn't seem all that comfortable with some of the things he's done recently, but ultimately he stays)
- The Cuckoos (stay with Scott; period)
- Elixir (not a killer, but feels obligated to stay)
- Vanisher (stays b/c only Elixir can remove his tumor)
- Hellion (hot-headed, but I'm thinking he stick with Cyclops)
- The rest of the New/Young X-men kids (Rockslide, Surge, Mercury, etc.)
- Magneto (would certainly be closer to Scott's vision than Jean and Beast's)
- Namor (because of Emma; has no problem with killing)

That's how I'd see it breaking down anyway. Still leaves a lot of mutants in both camps/books for a writer to play with. I'm thinking Mike Carey takes Jean and Beast's team over in X-men Legacy, and Fraction keeps Scott's group in Uncanny. Obviously X-Force stays the same, as does New Mutants.

Just my $.02 on potential post-Second Coming fallout.

You left out lil ro.

[Azure]

I know what you mean, they're SAAAASHAAAA waste of peoples time... and not worth the effort.

Ha! That was great. I concede the point.

[Optic Rage!]

BTW, if there ever was a split, Sam would side with Scott, OBVIOUSLY.

If not, it would be very OOC.

[Slant]

That, and Storm seems to be on Scott's side as well. I don't think Beast splitting would cause anyone else to leave.

[Hi-Fi]

Rogue is also too practical to have a problem with X-Force. And I don't think she hates Scott at all.

[Werehunter]

BTW, if there ever was a split, Sam would side with Scott, OBVIOUSLY.

If not, it would be very OOC.

Why do you say that? Out of all of them, he's one the first I can see rejecting some of the choices Scott has made. He might respect Scott but I don't see an overwhelming sense of loyalty towards Scott from Sam. Hell all he would have to do is find out Scott was willing to let Tabitha die so X-force could jump into the future and Sam would be done with Scott.

[Slant]

Scott and Sam have been having the 'leadership' talk since Sam became leader of the New Mutants.

[Maestro]

first thing Jean and Kitty should do when they get back is kick him right in the balls

[Slung]

That, and Storm seems to be on Scott's side as well. I don't think Beast splitting would cause anyone else to leave.

If Jean's return signaled the split, then Storm would not side with Scott. Also, I think Wolverine would side with Jean as well, ultimately.

[Slant]

I don't know. I doubt Storm would switch her viewpoint just because she's friends with Jean. She'll do what she thinks is right regardless of who's on what side.

If it was a popularity contest, yeah. But its not, and most X-Men aren't friends with Scott, they just realize he's the best person for the job right now. But its all hypothetical, and Jean isn't back, so who knows. I just don't think they'd go and all jump ship for someone who hasn't been around for a while.

But like I said earlier, I think most X-Men realize that with the current numbers, staying on the same page and working together makes more sense than splitting. That would do more harm than good.

[darknessatnoon]

If Jean's return signaled the split, then Storm would not side with Scott. Also, I think Wolverine would side with Jean as well, ultimately.

lol no he wouldn't. jean grey doesn't need a new team when she gets back. she needs remedial tutoring for all she's missed.

[AcesX1X]

where are people getting the idea that sam guthrie has a problem with killing?

wasn't he, like....cable's first recruit way back when? lmao.

[Slung]

lol no he wouldn't. jean grey doesn't need a new team when she gets back. she needs remedial tutoring for all she's missed.

Logan will get her up to speed in no time when they are leading their own team. And who says the team would split because of the pro-active measures? I think Jean and co would be just as likely to split over the Magneto-like "state of Israel" (per Fraction) that Cyclops has set up.

[XaviersMisprint]

I imagine it is coming soon. Wait for it. He can join in the gallery of abused X-Characters.

[Kirayoshi]

- Colossus (same reason as Iceman, Cannonball and Dazzler; doesn't believe in killing except as a last resort)

Plus I'd be surprised if he didn't still blame Scott for what happened to Kitty.

When(not if) Kitty comes back, I see her as leading the charge against Scott's New World Order. I'd like to see two teams of X-Men emerge from this; Scott's hard-edged squad can keep the Uncanny title, while Xavier leads a team of his more like-minded students(Storm, Nightcrawler, Iceman, Colossus, Cannonball, Dazzler, Kitty and Northstar) in a new title. I like "X-Men: Old School" myself.

[witness]

Hopefully it won't happen to soon. I want Cyclops to go insane with power-lust and become the petty-minded tyrant we all know he really is. If he gets slapped down its less likely to happen.

[Optic Rage!]

Why do you say that? Out of all of them, he's one the first I can see rejecting some of the choices Scott has made. He might respect Scott but I don't see an overwhelming sense of loyalty towards Scott from Sam. Hell all he would have to do is find out Scott was willing to let Tabitha die so X-force could jump into the future and Sam would be done with Scott.

Um, no. He was Cable's first member of X-Force, and he's done plenty of fucked up stuff in his past.

Anyways, these threads are utterly pointless at the end of the day, and only serve as outputs for those bitter bitches who don't like that Scott & Emma have been the main stars of the X-Men since Morrison took over.

Look, use some common sense, it's not that hard. The writers are basically in love with Scott Summers right now, you really think he's not going to be gratified in the end? Come on? If the direction of the books DO change, and they want to do X-Men Civil war, then you don't think they will have anyone side with whoever they want? Seeing as they will be the people actually writing the book? These lists are just fanwank, pointless, desperate, for anyone who takes them seriously.

[Slant]

I think Jean and co would be just as likely to split over the Magneto-like "state of Israel" (per Fraction) that Cyclops has set up.
Well would they do about it? Tell all the mutants on the island to go back home? I doubt they'd want to do that, with what happened during Utopia and all. Its really too late to do anything about it, unless you want the other side to come off as petty for seperating the remaining mutants for little reason. Its easy to just say there should be a side opposite Scott, but I've yet to see an actual plan as to how it would make any sense, other than "I don't like Scott or Emma".

But I can randomly pick names and put them on two sides and come up with enough reason for them to choose that side. Hell, the last issue of Uncanny had Emma disagreeing with Scott and Storm on his side. Just goes to show that it really doesn't matter.

[mikeb]

Rogue is also too practical to have a problem with X-Force. And I don't think she hates Scott at all.Rogue has been out of loop for the last 2 years or so.She may not even know about X-Force.Hate isn't the word I would use.Contempt and frustration would be better words.Scott doesn't see Rogue for 2 years,then when he does see her does ask her how she's been,how she had cured herself of strain 88 and the 8 billion souls?No, he goes into a tirade about how Rogue didn't hang around to "thank" him for failing to rescue her.Scott wanted his ego stroked,wanting gratitude for his incompetence!:frown: Scott must have severe self esteem issues...:frown:

[Optic Rage!]

Rogue has been out of loop for the last 2 years or so.She may not even know about X-Force.Hate isn't the word I would use.Contempt and frustration would be better words.Scott doesn't see Rogue for 2 years,then when he does see her does ask her how she's been,how she had cured herself of strain 88 and the 8 billion souls?No, he goes into a tirade about how Rogue didn't hang around to "thank" him for failing to rescue her.Scott wanted his ego stroked,wanting gratitude for his incompetence!:frown: Scott must have severe self esteem issues...:frown:

It's funny how biased certain things can be twisted, i wonder if anyone actually reads this shit and thinks, **oh wow, you are so right!!** If so, i hope you die.

A) Comic time + Real time are not the same, so it was not 2 years. Jeez, you should know this

B) I'm sure Scott & Rogue spoke after Messiah Complex.

C) He tried to save her from Strain 88 & Sinister, and i don't remember him asking her to thank him? If so, eh.

D) When Rogue first showed up, it was in the middle of the San Francisco riots and she shows up with Danger(who killed a student not so long ago) and Gambit who has not been trustworthy. So big deal if he's not going to stop in the middle of that and be all like HAYYYYYYYY. He's a leader.

E) Rogue does what Scott asks, end of the day, she shows sass, big deal, she shows sass to everyone.

F) She's killed before, and used to be a member of the brotherhood, you really think Rogue would have a problem with X-Force?

[timbox]

Cyclops has bad manners and that sort of thing does not fly in the south. Rogue has no love for him and would have already 'sucker punched' him if she weren't such a lady.

[Optic Rage!]

Cyclops has bad manners and that sort of thing does not fly in the south. Rogue has no love for him and would have already 'sucker punched' him if she weren't such a lady.

Joe Franklin is from the south.

[frog]

Joe Franklin is from the south.

We have our villians, just like every other region!

[rwsmith]

These lists are just fanwank, pointless, desperate, for anyone who takes them seriously.

It's funny how biased certain things can be twisted, i wonder if anyone actually reads this shit and thinks, **oh wow, you are so right!!** If so, i hope you die.

A) Comic time + Real time are not the same, so it was not 2 years. Jeez, you should know this

B) I'm sure Scott & Rogue spoke after Messiah Complex.

C) He tried to save her from Strain 88 & Sinister, and i don't remember him asking her to thank him? If so, eh.

D) When Rogue first showed up, it was in the middle of the San Francisco riots and she shows up with Danger(who killed a student not so long ago) and Gambit who has not been trustworthy. So big deal if he's not going to stop in the middle of that and be all like HAYYYYYYYY. He's a leader.

E) Rogue does what Scott asks, end of the day, she shows sass, big deal, she shows sass to everyone.

F) She's killed before, and used to be a member of the brotherhood, you really think Rogue would have a problem with X-Force?

:confused: I thought you said people shouldn't take these things seriously? :tongue:

Personally I find it fun to speculate with other folks who are fans about things that may or may not happen. Doesn't mean I take any of it seriously at all. It's a hobby.

But you're right about one thing, in the event of an X-men Civil War, the writers are going to have people choose sides with whomever they want them to, regardless of whether or not it's in character. That's pretty much a given.

[jarrod]

I think Rogue would support X-Force. Or at least, she wouldn't fight with Scott over a moral highground. I think the same with Storm, Dani and Cannoball honestly, and Havok if he were around.

Beast and Nightcrawler would be the chief moral opposition I think. And future X-President Kitty Pryde.

[darknessatnoon]

I think Rogue would support X-Force. Or at least, she wouldn't fight with Scott over a moral highground. I think the same with Storm, Dani and Cannoball honestly, and Havok if he were around.

Beast and Nightcrawler would be the chief moral opposition I think. And future X-President Kitty Pryde.

Nightcrawler wanted to kill Scalphunter. He is no moral paragon, especially since Cyke sent x-force to kill clones - beings which kurt hates.

[jarrod]

Nightcrawler wanted to kill Scalphunter. He is no moral paragon, especially since Cyke sent x-force to kill clones - beings which kurt hates.
I said Nightcrawler, not Skrullcrawler.

[Hi-Fi]

E) Rogue does what Scott asks, end of the day, she shows sass, big deal, she shows sass to everyone.
Not really, actually. Scott was against her taking her team off to fight the Children and she ignored his orders to stand down.

[creaky]

I said Nightcrawler, not Skrullcrawler.

Kurt also committed mass murder in Uncanny X-men annual #5!

[Mechano]

Kurt also committed mass murder in Uncanny X-men annual #5!


it seems to come with having blue skin/fur.

[Perfection/Emma 2]

Rogue would embrace X-Force

[ProfeZZor X]

Bobby's killed a couple of times too, but only out of self defense.

[jmc247]

Anyways, these threads are utterly pointless at the end of the day, and only serve as outputs for those bitter bitches who don't like that Scott & Emma have been the main stars of the X-Men since Morrison took over.

Look, use some common sense, it's not that hard. The writers are basically in love with Scott Summers right now, you really think he's not going to be gratified in the end? Come on?

There are some Magneto fans online that really hate Scott Summers and hate that Magneto is may argue that Scott is doing what is best to protect the mutant race.

They don't seem to understand that if Magneto and Scott were on opposite sides on Uncanny one of them would be completely trashed by the writers. Guess which character that would be?

[nikbackm]

Look, use some common sense, it's not that hard. The writers are basically in love with Scott Summers right now, you really think he's not going to be gratified in the end? Come on? If the direction of the books DO change, and they want to do X-Men Civil war, then you don't think they will have anyone side with whoever they want? Seeing as they will be the people actually writing the book? These lists are just fanwank, pointless, desperate, for anyone who takes them seriously.

At least Scott himself seems to expect that he will be thrown out when his shady dealings comes to light.

Hard to say if this will actually happen, but it should make for an interesting change of pace IMO. Assuming he will still appear somewhere and not just disappear into limbo of course.

[Kyle_Ion]

If that little girl with the pheonix in her eyes is jean grey and she gets a sudden growth spurt there is going to be confrontation between Cyclops and Jean and she is going to belittle him for all of the choises he's made certainly with Professor X. I can already see that Jean will most definitely seek out her former mentor and I see beast going with her and those x men that secretly disagree with cyclops. I have always seen Jean the heart of the Xmen and when jean leaves I see storm going as well.

[Deus ex Chris]

If Jean's return signaled the split, then Storm would not side with Scott. Also, I think Wolverine would side with Jean as well, ultimately.

I have always seen Jean the heart of the Xmen and when jean leaves I see storm going as well.

Since when does Storm base her decisions on what Jean Grey does?

[Optic Rage!]

Since when does Storm base her decisions on what Jean Grey does?

It's cause they are best friends! Best friends always agree!

[Slant]

Of course everyone's going to follow the woman who's been dead for the whole time.

[Blackroom]

Re: Jean Grey

A slight detour from the conversation, but I have never quite "understood" the character of Jean Grey. She seems like some sort of X-Madonna, filled with vast power and unshakable moral fiber; but comes across as kind of boring and unrelatable. Thats probably just me.

Re: Cyclops

Back to the topic.
Cyclops has already been decked numerous times (and will be decked again). I heard it once said that if you want to take the credit, you have to be willing to take the blame. And since Morrisson, Scott has been that leader. His decisions are controversial and often unpopular. He is distant and difficult to love, and he has never been charismatic enough to be forgiven for his transgressions. But he does whats needs to be done and doesn't shy away from the consequences of those decisions. He knows he has blood on his hands, he knows that his friends and allies and questioning his motives (and possibly his sanity); but if it ensures the survival of his species, he would gladly stand before a Mutant Tribunal for his perceived crimes and walk to the gallows with a smile.

[Lukecage]

There's really no point in splitting them either way. A split only serves to hurt mutants as a whole. So any split is pretty much selfish on anyones part. But, hey, that's just my opinion. If you want to help mutants, work it out.

[ClanAskani]

I think Rogue would support X-Force. Or at least, she wouldn't fight with Scott over a moral highground. I think the same with Storm, Dani and Cannoball honestly, and Havok if he were around.



Creating X-Force in the first place might not be the point of contention. Most of the X-Men aren’t going to have a huge problem wanting to go on the offensive for once, considering the circumstances.

So while Rogue, Ororo, Sam and Alex might not have a problem with X-Force being formed in the first place, would they take issue with the personnel chosen (Laura and Rahne) or Scott essentially ordering X-Force to leave Tabitha, Julian and Nori for dead?

They likely would see Scott taking things too far, and his secretiveness allowed him to get away with doing things that the whole team likely wouldn’t agree with.

[Slant]

So while Rogue, Ororo, Sam and Alex might not have a problem with X-Force being formed in the first place, would they take issue with the personnel chosen (Laura and Rahne) or Scott essentially ordering X-Force to leave Tabitha, Julian and Nori for dead?


Considering they've all been leaders at some point and time, no, I don't think they'd care too much. Not as much to cause a fuss or anything. Especially considering no one died, and the circumstance.

A lot of projecting here.

[yanapryde]

Cyclops is a sensational leader.
Go Cyclops.

[ClanAskani]

Considering they've all been leaders at some point and time, no, I don't think they'd care too much. Not as much to cause a fuss or anything. Especially considering no one died, and the circumstance.

A lot of projecting here.

Since Ororo, Alex and to a certain extent Rogue have led teams, I think they would see it as sort of Scott going off on his own without respecting their opinions. Yes, he's the commander-in-chief, but he's gone off on his own without asking them for their help and input - in part because he knows they'll object.

They might understand what it means to make command decisions that will cost people their lives, but Scott's pushed the boundaries pretty far. And if he hadn't kept X-Force secret, another team could have been called in during Messiah War to help out.

[Slant]

Since Ororo, Alex and to a certain extent Rogue have led teams, I think they would see it as sort of Scott going off on his own without respecting their opinions. Yes, he's the commander-in-chief, but he's gone off on his own without asking them for their help and input - in part because he knows they'll object.


Alex doesn't figure into this, like at all. Neither does Rogue really, she's only just got back after she left on her own. And Storm hasn't been around all that much either.

So again, no.

[Monty_Cristo]

Re: Jean Grey

A slight detour from the conversation, but I have never quite "understood" the character of Jean Grey. She seems like some sort of X-Madonna, filled with vast power and unshakable moral fiber; but comes across as kind of boring and unrelatable. Thats probably just me.

i'm not going to debate that. but jean's part of the family; the original x-family. she's the x-men's older sister. boring or exciting, she's the missing piece of the puzzle. i guess, if you want another cliche, she's the original "heart" of the X-Men.

[Roach5000]

I think a few of us are confused about what a hero or what the X-men are supposed to stand for. The X-men arent about murder. Killing in self defense is one thing but to actively create an assassination team is an entirely different thing. If Scott was such a brave leader willing to take the consequences of his actions then X-force wouldnt be a secret team. I think that many of the other X-men would have very serious problems with what Scott is doing.
When Scott's motto is "The ends justify the means" which was Magneto's motto then there is a problem.

[Optic Rage!]

But in THIS case, the end DOES justify the means.

Again, comparing him to Magneto is silly, Scott went after the Purifiers before they could kill more kids, it's not the same.