Classical Music

[twilight]

Bear with me because this might sound a little silly.

I’m always trying to broaden my musical taste and I realized the other day that I know next to nothing about classical music and it’s something I should look into.

Since all these renowned classical composers died literally hundreds of years before sound recording was available what do I look for if I want to here their pieces performed well?

Do I look for CD’s along the lines of “The London Philharmonic Performs the works of Beethoven”? “World Orchestra All-Stars Present Bach”?

Hopefully you guys can understand what I mean.

Any help would really be appreciated.

-Twi

[Punchy]

Bear with me because this might sound a little silly.

I’m always trying to broaden my musical taste and I realized the other day that I know next to nothing about classical music and it’s something I should look into.

Since all these renowned classical composers died literally hundreds of years before sound recording was available what do I look for if I want to here their pieces performed well?

Do I look for CD’s along the lines of “The London Philharmonic Performs the works of Beethoven”? “World Orchestra All-Stars Present Bach”?

Hopefully you guys can understand what I mean.

Any help would really be appreciated.

-Twi
I totally understand what you mean.

If you want good performances and recordings of classic works you should probably look for CDs by the "Big Four" orchestras: New York Phil, Chicago Symphony, LA Phil, and Cleveland Symphony but there are probably quality recordings from many other orchestras as well. Its hard to tell. But I do know the stuff I've bought in the bargain bins have not been recorded very well.

You can look for stuff conducted by conductors; Bernstein, Salonen, Tilson-Thomas, etc.

Any specific works you're looking for?

[The Confessor]

If you want good performances and recordings of classic works you should probably look for CDs by the "Big Four" orchestras: New York Phil, Chicago Symphony, LA Phil, and Cleveland Symphony but there are probably quality recordings from many other orchestras as well. Its hard to tell.


I agree with Punchy, but I would add the Royal Philharmonic and London Symphony Orchestras to that list. Having said that, there's plenty of good stuff recorded by lesser know orchestras...for example, my favourite recording of Dukas' “The Sorcerer's Apprentice” is by The Scottish National Orchestra, which was recorded in the mid-Seventies. Which brings me on to another point - don't go thinking that the more recent the recording, the better it must be. Just like in popular music, that's not always the case. There’s a reason why real classical music aficionados prefer listening to analogue recordings played on an analogue medium, such as vinyl LPs.

To be honest, I'm a bit like you twilight, in that I enjoy classical music but know next to nothing about particular orchestras or conductors. I don’t let this stop me from exploring classical music but unfortunately, a lot of my buying of classical music CDs has been a process of trial and error. Still, in my experience, as long as you stay away from the really cheap budget releases that you find in the bargain bin, most recordings will sound plenty satisfactory. Just to clarify, I’m not talking about mid-priced classical music albums…I mean the really "cheap as chips" ones. Generally they’re priced that cheaply for a reason.

Another thing worth mentioning, although it may seem irrelevant to you, is that orchestral instruments have changed a lot since the likes of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven composed their music. As such, when you hear a 20th Century orchestra playing these classical pieces, they don't actually sound that close to how the original composer intended them to sound.

Modern orchestras are all playing the right notes, of course, but the sound of the instruments themselves has changed a fair bit. For example, if you hear a piano built in the 17th century it sounds quite a bit different to a modern piano. There's obviously not much that you can do about this and at the end of the day, it probably won't affect your enjoyment of the music. However, if you do get really hung up on historical authenticity, there are specialist orchestras out there recording historically authentic versions of classical works in the modern era. These orchestras use only authentic musical instruments, built to the exact same specifications as antique instruments. I know for a fact that there's an historically authentic orchestra out there specialising in Mozart's music for instance and I'm sure there must be others dedicated to performing works by the other great composers. Here's the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historically_informed_performance) talking about this trend in historically authentic classical music.


So, what sort of classical music are you interested in hearing? Although it's only my personal taste, I can heartily recommend all of the following well know works for any neophyte...

Johann Sebastian Bach - The Brandenburg concertos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_concertos)
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Serenade No. 13 for strings in G major (aka Eine kleine Nachtmusik) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eine_kleine_Nachtmusik)
Ludwig van Beethoven - Symphony No. 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._5_(Beethoven))
Antonio Vivaldi - The Four Seasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Seasons_(Vivaldi))
Maurice Ravel - Boléro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bol%C3%A9ro)
Gustav Holst - The Planets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Planets)

[Jonathan Bogart]

Modern orchestras are all playing the right notes, of course, but the sound of the instruments themselves has changed a fair bit.
Actually, it's not quite the case that modern instrumentalists are playing the "right" notes. If you look up the history of equal temperament tuning, you find that most music before the twentieth century was composed for a slightly different harmonic range than the one we're accustomed to. Which is interesting, but not all that important; chasing after perfect historical accuracy is (to my historian's mind) a pipe dream.

Twi, I generally look for works first and performances second. That is, I get the cheapest reasonable copy of a specific work I can find (labels like Naxos, EMI, and Deutsche Grammophone are all pretty trustworthy), familiarize myself with that, and then start looking for the performance of it that resonates most with me. Going work by work -- and jumping all around in time and space -- works better for me than any broad-overview summary could. And, as far as I can judge, it's a better route into the music itself than relying on particular performers, or even conductors, is.

[sschroeder]

If you have access to a classical music radio station, start listening to that once in a while. Hopefully, they will have their playlists on-line, so that you can make mental notes of dates and times you heard something you liked and then go to get the full information about the CD, including composer, opus number/name, orchestra, conductor and soloists, next time you are at your computer.

Libraries also often have classical CD's. This can be a nice way to try before you buy.

Buying exactly what you've heard already might be unnecessary anyway. I tend to look for collections at a good price that have the best extras. Maybe an overture or two with a symphony, where another option doesn't have that. This is a good way to pick up exposure to extra pieces from a composor and build your collection. And sometimes the smaller works are better for a quick injection of classical into your day.

Once I find a composer that is new to me or where I want to go deeper, I might make an effort to read about him on wikipedia or somesuch. That will often mention what the well regarded pieces are. (That isn't a perfect solution. Someone mentioned Bolero. I don't like most of that piece at all.)

Hopefully, by doing some of those things, you'll start to notice different kinds of classical music and what comes out of different eras and start to pinpoint to good targets for your attention.

There are pieces for orchestras (symphonies, concertos, overtures, etc.) and smaller groups of musicians (piano trios, sonatas, etc.). There is the romantic era (roughly 1800's after Beethoven) and the classical era (roughly pre-Beethoven), and more.

So one thing I did for a while was explore violin concertos. If there was one on the radio I hadn't heard, I'd try to make the time to listen. You can pick any kind of subject like that and focus your attention on it for a while, if you like.

Here are some pieces I like:

Violin Concerto:
Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto in E minor, Op. 64

Piano Concerto:
Tchaikovsky - Piano Concerto No. 1 in B-flat minor, Op. 23
Grieg - Piano Concerto in A minor, Op. 16

Large vein of piano material: Beethoven, Schumann, Prokofiev, etc.


Cello Concerto: Elgar has a very nice one. Dvorak? Haven't gotten to this area much yet myself.


Other Concerto: Krommer - Clarinet Concertos Opp. 35, 36 & 91

Obviously, as the others have mentioned there are no hard rules. You might like a certain concerto piece, but not by a certain soloist/orch/conductor combination. But generally, starting out, it all sounds so wonderful, that these details won't matter too much. If there's an instrument you enjoy hearing stand out more, you can probably track down a nice concerto for it.

Symphony:
Beethoven - Symphony No. 4 in B-flat major, Op. 60

So many symphonies to choose from. Symphonies usually have their own numbering outside of the opus numbers, so you don't always need to know the opus. My symphony collection (as with all the areas really) needs a ton of work, but I also have selections from Beethoven (all), Mozart (Nos. 36, 38-41), Tchaikovsky (No. 6), Sibelius (all), Dvorak (Nos. 5, 9), Mendelssohn (No. 4), Schumann (all), Mahler (No. 4), Bruch (all), Martinu (No. 4, others?).

Overtures:
Mendelssohn - The Hebrides (Fingal's Cave) Overture, Op. 26
Beethoven - "Egmont" Overture, Op. 84
Schumann - "Die Braut von Messina" Overture in C minor, Op. 100

Piano Trios:
I have vol. 2 of Beethoven's Piano Trios by Ashkenzy, Perlman, and Harrell from EMI Gemini. Not sure if it is a good set to get, but it has some great pieces that made me think to explore these types of works by other composers eventually.

Solo Piano:
Chopin - Polonaises

Need to get myself some solo piano Beethoven stuff, I think.


Soundtrack:
Howard Shore - The Urak-hai from The Two Towers

Some modern movies have some good classical music, so don't overlook those as a source.


There's just a ton of stuff out there! I tend to maybe splurge/focus on an area for a while to boost my knowledge/collection. Or I just go for a bit of variety so I'm getting a bit more of everything. Whatever method strikes me as best at the time.

You can try to read reviews (Amazon, classical sites, etc.) to try and figure out which recording to get, but there's always some guesswork. I just try to plan a little to avoid too much duplication. As has been said, look at EMI Classics (Encore, Gemini), Naxos, Philips, Sony Classical, Arte Nova for options. There's always the latest recordings by current musicians as well, but these can be more expensive.

If/when you have a particular piece in mind, perhaps we can pool the collective CBR experience on which recordings people already have.

In my own case, I like the Bernsteins I have for Beethoven Symphonies Nos. 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9 that I have. But I haven't heard other conductors/orchestras do them in enough detail to really compare. And Bernstein even did two cycles, apparently, of which one is reportedly "better." Just have to inform yourself as best possible in the time allotted, I guess. I did compromise and not buy Berstein for the others just to have/hear them sooner. Maybe I'll search out Bernstein's versions one day. It never really ends. That's both interesting and frustrating about it at the same time. I just don't really have the devotion/energy/interest to compare versions though, I think, expect in the very long run, so it is fine as it is for now.

[Spike-X]

There’s a reason why real classical music aficionados prefer listening to analogue recordings played on an analogue medium, such as vinyl LPs.


Which is interesting, because the compact disc was originally invented to make classical music sound better. Even the original maximum running time of CDs was decided upon because that's how long the favourite work of the inventor's wife ran for.

[Rob Allen]

If you have access to a classical music radio station, start listening to that once in a while.

If you can stream audio online, you always have access to AllClassical.org (http://allclassical.org/index.php5), aka KQAC-FM in Portland.

[Punchy]

Actually, it's not quite the case that modern instrumentalists are playing the "right" notes. If you look up the history of equal temperament tuning, you find that most music before the twentieth century was composed for a slightly different harmonic range than the one we're accustomed to. Which is interesting, but not all that important; chasing after perfect historical accuracy is (to my historian's mind) a pipe dream.

Especially conisidering instruments of that era were terribly hard to keep in tune. I'm of the opinion that hearing an 18th-Century orchestra in its time would have sounded like a mess.

[Lasko8734]

anyone know the names of some classical elevator music, like Temptation Sensation by Heinz Kiessling?

[verslibre]

Solo Piano:
Chopin - Polonaises

Need to get myself some solo piano Beethoven stuff, I think.

Last year on KUSC, I heard a long (over ten minutes) piece called "Sonata" by a lesser known classical pianist named Charles Tomlinson Griffes. He lived in the first part of the 1900s and died at a young age—35, I think. It's an excellent composition and I found his CD Collected Works, Vol. I at Amoeba in L.A. back in January. I wasn't able to find it on Amazon or CDUniverse at the time, either. It's a great disc.

I also picked a CD of Haydn piano works recorded by jazz man Keith Jarrett, which I enjoy a lot.

[sschroeder]

If you can stream audio online, you always have access to AllClassical.org (http://allclassical.org/index.php5), aka KQAC-FM in Portland.

With the digital television transition, my local PBS television station actually broadcasts the local classical music station on one of its subchannels (audio only with some landscape pictures). Cool idea.


Last year on KUSC, I heard a long (over ten minutes) piece called "Sonata" by a lesser known classical pianist named Charles Tomlinson Griffes. He lived in the first part of the 1900s and died at a young age—35, I think. It's an excellent composition and I found his CD Collected Works, Vol. I at Amoeba in L.A. back in January. I wasn't able to find it on Amazon or CDUniverse at the time, either. It's a great disc.

Thanks for suggesting something. I, of course, didn't mean to imply that there wasn't anything good from lesser known composers by saying I needed some more Beethoven. Sometimes stuff I've heard from guys I've never heard of sounds just as good. Just like music created from any time period, I'm sure.


I also picked a CD of Haydn piano works recorded by jazz man Keith Jarrett, which I enjoy a lot.

I don't have any Haydn at all yet. I do need to get some, and I have a few ideas for what already, like the later symphonies and cello concerto. Haydn comes on the radio often enough though to get a bit familiar with him even without owning anything.


Another thing I'm curious to maybe find more of is music with some dramatic choral elements or flourishes. People might laugh, but tracks like these:

John Williams: Duel of the Fates from The Phantom Menance
Howard Shore: Foundations of Stone, The White Rider, Treebeard, and The Leave Taking from The Two Towers

I also have and like Op. 112 from Beethoven. So shorter pieces, relatively speaking, I suppose. (I'm not really looking for more stuff like Beethoven's 9th Symphony or Mahler's 4th. I do need to explore more Mahler some day though.)

I also heard some amazing choral thing by Elgar once on the radio. I think it was From the Bavarian Highlands, Op. 27. So anything like that too. Or maybe I should just track that down and be happy first.

[The Confessor]

Actually, it's not quite the case that modern instrumentalists are playing the "right" notes. If you look up the history of equal temperament tuning, you find that most music before the twentieth century was composed for a slightly different harmonic range than the one we're accustomed to. Which is interesting, but not all that important; chasing after perfect historical accuracy is (to my historian's mind) a pipe dream.


Oh, that's interesting...I didn't know that.



Which is interesting, because the compact disc was originally invented to make classical music sound better. Even the original maximum running time of CDs was decided upon because that's how long the favourite work of the inventor's wife ran for.


Yeah, well it's probably just audiophiles being audiophiles. They're probably the same across any genre of music...and I say that as a card carrying audiophile myself.

[Sabrina_Fried]

Bear with me because this might sound a little silly.

I’m always trying to broaden my musical taste and I realized the other day that I know next to nothing about classical music and it’s something I should look into.

Since all these renowned classical composers died literally hundreds of years before sound recording was available what do I look for if I want to here their pieces performed well?

Do I look for CD’s along the lines of “The London Philharmonic Performs the works of Beethoven”? “World Orchestra All-Stars Present Bach”?

Hopefully you guys can understand what I mean.

Any help would really be appreciated.

-Twi

I think that hearing a piece of Classical music performed well is largely subjective. My favourite CD of Holst's The Planets, for example is one of those cheap(ish) entree recordings that was performed by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. I used to have another CD by an orchestra in Montreal of the exact same arrangement, but I considered it unlistenable.

With The Planets, the main thing I was looking for in the recording, I think, is whether or not the orchestra was capturing the "feeling" of the song. I know this sounds cheesy, but with The Planets especially each section has to have a unique feel to it. The Montreal orchestra was basically sight reading. The notes were perfect, they were coherent, but they were basically just playing the music on their sheets. I definitley reccomment buying things like The Planets or Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance on a CD or digital album where you get the entire set if possible. Sure you may like some tracks better than others, but they WERE written to be listened to as a set.

With compilations, It also depends on the arrangement. In a good arrangement, especially if you are buying one of those "Favourite Classics for [insert event here]" compilations the arrangments will be organized so that the various pieces of music compliment eachother even if they were done by different composers in different musical eras, and performed by different orchestras. And ideally you'll get the entire piece of music, not just the main part of it (as an example, the FULL 1812 Overture lasts about 18 minutes or so. The part most people are familar with, and the part that ends up on most compilations I have seen is basically the last 3 or 4 minutes).

But these are things you may not be able to figure out without listening to the CD first.

Sabrina