CBR: Wonder of Wonders Issue #1

[CBR News]

We're proud to host a new regular column on CBR, WONDER OF WONDERS! The brain child of writer Gail Simone, it will celebrate one of the greatest female icons of all time, Wonder Woman, with a revolving group of contributors that might surprise you.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=22962).

[Jeff Parker]

First post.

YEAH, HOW DOES IT FEEL, MESSAGE BOARDARIANS! I snagged that from you!

Yay Gail,

Jeff

[Gail Simone]

HA!

You guys, please welcome one of my favorite crop of current writers, the great Jeff Parker.

If you aren't reading Agents Of Atlas, you're missing one of the best Marvel books in years, AND that's just the start of his impressive resume.

Yay, Jeff!

[Black Francis]

That model is quite lovely :biggrin:

[aegisbearer]

First post.

YEAH, HOW DOES IT FEEL, MESSAGE BOARDARIANS! I snagged that from you!

Yay Gail,

Jeff

I'm actually quite tickled, Jeff :wink: Glad you could be the first.

[Crusader K]

HA!

You guys, please welcome one of my favorite crop of current writers, the great Jeff Parker.

If you aren't reading Agents Of Atlas, you're missing one of the best Marvel books in years, AND that's just the start of his impressive resume.

Yay, Jeff!

Yeah...I know...Wonder Woman board.

But I gotta go with you Gail! Agents of Atlas IS all dat!

[lead sharp]

I like the irony of plugging (the really good) Iron Man book on so many levels.

I'm curious whether you'll delve into the history of the character at all and...

That is the bravest model/cosplay/whatever I have ever seen and that includes the Emma Frost that does the convention rounds.

[Mart]

Jeff Parker, he's phat. Whatever that meant when it was trendy.

As well as Agents of Atlas, his Mysterio the Unfathomable is also a delight.

Hey Jeff, coming to DC sometime?

[parsimony]

Yay! Looking forward to reading more.

[Gail Simone]

I like the irony of plugging (the really good) Iron Man book on so many levels.

I'm curious whether you'll delve into the history of the character at all and...

That is the bravest model/cosplay/whatever I have ever seen and that includes the Emma Frost that does the convention rounds.

I'm not sure i understand your first two sentences. Matt Fraction is a friend and a terrific writer, what's ironic about saying his book is good?

And the columns will be delving into a LOT of history, far better than I could do myself, so I'm pretty excited.

[nerites]

I'm in love with this place.
:-D

[shanejayell]

Congrats on the first column!

[nepenthes]

whoa, any more pics of that model? she's gorgeous


Sounds like a great idea for a new column, I look forward to reading it

[scout1279]

Hey! It's my 2 favorite comic writers in one thread!

Great column, Gail. I admit that despite being a comics reader, I never got into Wonder Woman comics, but if you asked me what I thought of her, I would have always told you how much I loved her. Wonder Woman is just such a powerful image. My mom and sister, both of whom have never read a comic, adore her too. My mom, who loves all the superhero and comic book movies that are coming out lately, always says she would like to see a Wonder Woman movie. She probably wants one more than I do, because she doesn't have the comics.

I have to say though, as much as it's nice to see how much non-comics readers like Diana, I got an even bigger smile on my face this past weekend when I saw a little girl pick every Wonder Woman comic she could find out of the $1 bin and ask her dad if she could have them, and then she let out a little squeal when he said she could. It was adorable.

[Jeff Parker]

To make up for my early jacking of the thread, I'll throw into those thoughts on why Wonder Woman's popularity seems to be independent of the comics, even before Lynda Carter.

One big part of it I think, is her perfect name. Besides being a neat alliteration, it's a superlative for women, period. It invites everyone to imprint onto it whatever they think makes a 'wonder woman'. It's appropriately mythic and iconic, and yet few of the details of her mythos seem that integral to what people want from the character- whatever that may be. In a way that keeps her kind of a clean slate and makes her hard to nail down at the same time.

In short... Gail took on a big job! But she can do it, and I don't think many could. I'd be all huddled in a corner, shaking and rocking back and forth. How to get those people who love WW and yet won't read the books is even more confounding, but I think this forum is a great start.

GO G!

[Gail Simone]

Jeff, first, thank you. I love to pick on you because of your obvious hygiene and social issues, but I still love your work to pieces.

I think you have raised a very interesting point, and there's no question it's made it harder for people to relate to WW as a character. No male superhero is asked to shoulder the burden of the entire world's views on the masculine gender, but for Wonder Woman, that is exactly what many people think of when they think of her.

So I wanted to tell stories where she did human things, made human mistakes, but ultimately triumphed. That's really the thing that interests me most about her.

[Craig M.D.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Nicola Scott have some pics of her in a Wonder Woman costume floating around the net a few years ago (I seem to recall seeing them posted on Millarworld or the comicbloc forums at one point)? Is that one of them at the top of the blog?

Also, the Wonder Woman animated movie had a great documentary on the history of Wonder Woman on the dvd, including some interesting facts about her creator William Moulton Marston (sp?) and the women in his life.

[Gail Simone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Nicola Scott have some pics of her in a Wonder Woman costume floating around the net a few years ago (I seem to recall seeing them posted on Millarworld or the comicbloc forums at one point)? Is that one of them at the top of the blog?

Also, the Wonder Woman animated movie had a great documentary on the history of Wonder Woman on the dvd, including some interesting facts about her creator William Moulton Marston (sp?) and the women in his life.

That is not Nicola Scott, it's Margie Cox. But there IS a shot of Nicola in the WW outfit in her interview thread on this very board.

[Love Machine]

$$$$ double post...

[Love Machine]

The phenomenon you describe in the article exists around most brands in entertainment. You see it alot in Sports, where people will follow a team, buy the merch and watch the big matches on TV...but won't (or can't) go to an actual game very often, if at all...

...thou in WW's case it's quite amazing how 'large' she remains, given the relative lack of memorable stories or media she's had since Lynda Carter hung up the costume...

[lead sharp]

I'm not sure i understand your first two sentences. Matt Fraction is a friend and a terrific writer, what's ironic about saying his book is good?

And the columns will be delving into a LOT of history, far better than I could do myself, so I'm pretty excited.

He's a Marvel, you're a DC (thank you itsjustsomerandomguy...) and that's just a start. Iron Man as a character is the opposite of everything Wonder Woman is (specifically in his worst moments granted). Then there's all the other comparisons from a media point of view. Iron Man got a movie and a successful comic, Wonder Woman...

I just found it a really good comparison.

I buy Iron Man I know how good it is.

As for the history I always liked the fact that Wonder Woman was created by a man who's original concept was to create a character who was "tender, submissive, peace loving as good women are," and put her in as much bondage as possible. His heart was in the right place but if it wasn't for his wife we would have wound up with something a bit different.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Calling yourself a Spider-Man fan without having ever read a Spider-Man comic is no more strange than calling yourself a James Bond fan without having ever read a Ian Fleming "James Bond" novel. That being said, if someone claims to love the character despite the fact that he's never even thought about reading the source material, at the very least we can safely say that he lacks curiosity.

With Wonder Woman, it's a little different. In this day and age, the character only exists in comics and in a couple of cartoons. Claiming you're a Wonder Woman fan when all you have is mugs, t-shirts and things like that is dubious. If all you're interested in is the licensed products, and reading about the character in a fictional environment has never crossed your mind, you are not a fan of the character, you just have a fetish.

[ScottyQuick]

Calling yourself a Spider-Man fan without having ever read a Spider-Man comic is no more strange than calling yourself a James Bond fan without having ever read a Ian Fleming "James Bond" novel. That being said, if someone claims to love the character despite the fact that he's never even thought about reading the source material, at the very least we can safely say that he lacks curiosity.

With Wonder Woman, it's a little different. In this day and age, the character only exists in comics and in a couple of cartoons. Claiming you're a Wonder Woman fan when all you have is mugs, t-shirts and things like that is dubious. If all you're interested in is the licensed products, and reading about the character in a fictional environment has never crossed your mind, you are not a fan of the character, you just have a fetish.

Not at all. Maybe you're a fan of Wonder Woman because she always does what's right, or because she can block bullets, or because she's beautiful and powerful and amazing. You don't need to read about her to know that. She just *is*, and that's inspirational.

[lead sharp]

Is there a definitive Wonder Woman story?

Or to put it another way are there enough 'classic stories' to choose a definitive, or at least debate over what defines definitive?

I ask because if you wanted to introduce a 'mug collector' to the source material, where would you start?

[The Mirrorball Man]

Not at all. Maybe you're a fan of Wonder Woman because she always does what's right, or because she can block bullets, or because she's beautiful and powerful and amazing. You don't need to read about her to know that. She just *is*, and that's inspirational.

Actually, by that definition, you don't even need Wonder Woman: moral virtues, supernatural powers and beauty are inspirational on their own. It has nothing to do with being a fan of a character, though.

[gargoylekitty]

With Wonder Woman, it's a little different. In this day and age, the character only exists in comics and in a couple of cartoons. Claiming you're a Wonder Woman fan when all you have is mugs, t-shirts and things like that is dubious. If all you're interested in is the licensed products, and reading about the character in a fictional environment has never crossed your mind, you are not a fan of the character, you just have a fetish.

It might not be that its never crossed their mind so much that comics still suffer a bit of the 'boy's/children only' and/or exclusive mentality. You can get merchandise at some normal stores and without any previous knowledge of the character and industry but to get into comics can be a bit more intimidating. There's trades, different eras, different titles, retcons, reboots, special stores that carry the issues, online spaces that might not always be friendly, the possibility of spending a decent amount of money on something you find you don't like, and many other factors. Most people will just do what's easier(not a bad thing) and stick to the mugs and t-shirts.

Even that aside, as you said, there's also other places they might have become familiar with the character. A friend of mine has only ever seen the recent animated movie and that's been enough that if you asked her she'd enthusiastically respond that she's a fan. Shoot, even her mother who hardly speaks English and only watched half the movie with us would probably say she's a fan with how excited she got over it. I think that says more about the appeal of the character than anything.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Most people will just do what's easier(not a bad thing) and stick to the mugs and t-shirts.

You have a point but ordering trade paperbacks on Amazon.com isn't exactly rocket science.

[Mars Getsoian]

Is there a definitive Wonder Woman story?

Or to put it another way are there enough 'classic stories' to choose a definitive, or at least debate over what defines definitive?

Yes and no. I could name you ten potentially definitive post-Crisis Wonder Woman stories off the top of my head, but the character they describe is as different from the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman is as different from the Golden Age Wonder Woman, as Adam West Batman is from the Dini-Timm Batman is from the Goddamned Batman. And the thing about Wonder Woman is, while the comic fanbase - including writers - are in general (or at least functioning) consensus over which of those three Batmans is the one the "definitive" stories should describe, Wonder Woman fans - again including writers - are rather more divided about what's really the core of her character. So, I know where I would start - I'd hand the mug collector a couple Perez and Rucka trades and maybe League of One. But there's no guarantee that that Wonder Woman is the one that will be written in the next linewide crossover or after the next writer change or in the next television adaptation, just to pick a few examples at total random. So it can be tricky to bring fans to the source, since there's a lot less agreement on what the source actually is.

[Gail Simone]

Hey!

It's Mars Getsoian, who is going to be one of the rotating column writers for WONDER OF WONDERS.

I love her stuff. Welcome her, everyone, please!

[Gail Simone]

Where is your avatar from, Mars?

[Mars Getsoian]

Where is your avatar from, Mars?

Just a crop and color manip of that Dodson OYL promo pic (http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/wonder-woman.jpg) that made the rounds back in the day. It's really just a placeholder until I can pound out a satisfactory Artemis avatar.

[lead sharp]

Yes and no. I could name you ten potentially definitive post-Crisis Wonder Woman stories off the top of my head, but the character they describe is as different from the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman is as different from the Golden Age Wonder Woman, as Adam West Batman is from the Dini-Timm Batman is from the Goddamned Batman. And the thing about Wonder Woman is, while the comic fanbase - including writers - are in general (or at least functioning) consensus over which of those three Batmans is the one the "definitive" stories should describe, Wonder Woman fans - again including writers - are rather more divided about what's really the core of her character. So, I know where I would start - I'd hand the mug collector a couple Perez and Rucka trades and maybe League of One. But there's no guarantee that that Wonder Woman is the one that will be written in the next linewide crossover or after the next writer change or in the next television adaptation, just to pick a few examples at total random. So it can be tricky to bring fans to the source, since there's a lot less agreement on what the source actually is.

So we're starting the bid with Rucka and Perez runs, anything more specific.

I'm going to take it as read no ones mentioning John Byrne?

[shanejayell]

Welcome, Mars! Looking forward to your column.
^_^

Byrne... is a bit of a mixed bag for fans. I don't HATE his run but it's kinda meh in bits.

[nemoproxy]

Hello all WW fans, I'm glad to see this board was created, but I feel someone was overlooked in the introduction to the board, Adam Hughes. He had a great run of covers, as well as is currently working on his own Wonder Woman story. Not to mention just the sheer amount of products DC has used his Wonder Woman imagery on. I hope in the future we could hear his take on the princess.

[Gail Simone]

That's a great idea!

I'll talk to him. But we haven't gotten NEARLY to everyone yet!

[trypr]

I just saw the article, and it made me grin a lot and then shed a tear at the end, reading about Wonder Woman day.

It was a very insightful article, I feel, and pleasantly inclusive. It also acknowledged the place I come from as a fan. I've never really been into the merchandise and although I've seen the Linda Carter series, it never really grabbed me the way either the Superman films did, or Batman. In all honesty I came to know all these characters through film and animation, along with other superheros.

When I was very young Superman was a very strong noble ideal that had a big impact upon me. Batman loomed a little larger in my awareness, during my late teens, as I learned a measure of cynicism and Wonder Woman is someone who I've finally come around to late in my life, at a point when I wondered whether superhero comics had much more to offer me; even as I've grown into an avid fan of graphic media.

I'm not sure what started my interest in her. I guess my own social awareness and understanding has grown, up to the age of thirty, and I've become more secure in my own identity in recent years: I'm a transsexual woman, so I'm tall and somewhat masculine. I have female friends who are tall and there are plenty of women with equally, if not more masculine features, so I know I'm not alone, but I needed help finding a sense of identity I could make my own. So that I wouldn't feel like the outsider, always afraid of rejection.

I knew about Wonder Woman, from the cartoons and from popular media. I knew she was a feminist icon, but I wasn't quite sure why. I knew she was an Amazon; that she came from an idyllic, peaceful island of those women; that she was created by the Greek Gods and her mother; that she was a champion of Athena. I knew she was strong, that she could fly, that she sometimes had an invisible plane, that she had an unbreakable lasso and (thanks to the 70s TV series) that she could deflect bullets with her bracers. I knew she was a feminist, a humanist, a diplomat with a mission. I knew that she was a goddess who walked the earth.

Amidst this collection of impressions I formed an idea in my own head of what she might be like in person and how she might be presented in comics, for better or worse. I was afraid that I might read a comic only to be very disappointed in someone important. That changed when I read an interview with Gail about the character. I picked up the books, and all of a sudden I could hear her, a part of myself I guess, in my head; she looked at me from the page.This tall, strong, if not exactly "masculine" woman. I have started reading my way back since.

I suppose that, in a metaphorical way, she has helped me accept that I belong; to undo a lot of the shame and self doubt I had growing up. My female (and male) friends have always been kind and accepting of my past, but it took a symbol, and a personality like Wonder Woman for me to finally have the bravery to let them in. The idea of her gave me the courage to be proud as a woman; the means to finally make the positive difference in other peoples lives I have longed to.

I don't suppose we all see exactly the same things in her. We emphasise her different qualities in our own mind. Like her mythical patrons, she is really an older figure we've rediscovered: a Promethea. We all know what she is, though we can't quite put our finger on it. I find those people who have problems with her, struggle to see past the icon of our times, the trappings (rope, etc.) especially, to that of something more eternal. An icon of compassion, wisdom and strength.

I think if you want to bring more people into reading the comics, then we need to show her being the whole of who she is: the images of her strength, the wisdom of her words are common in cartoons and promotion, but her compassion is all too rarely seen in animation and promotional images. Without it, her strength can become distorted into brutality, her wisdom sound supercilious. Show her with normal people, fighting for the minds she is fighting to win, with the people she loves, with her enemies and they will understand and want to read and see more.

[Gail Simone]

That's very moving, Trpyr.

Unfortunately, everyone has an idea of what Wonder Woman should be, and for most, those ideas contradict each other.

In the end, each writer has to write what they believe is the truth of her character.

[AndyMangels]

Very nicely worded post, trypr.

Glad that Wonder Woman was a good model for you, whether in the abstract or the specific.

I have another TS friend who dressed as WW once. She totally felt like that power and image fit her. And it did!

[trypr]

"Unfortunately, everyone has an idea of what Wonder Woman should be, and for most, those ideas contradict each other.

In the end, each writer has to write what they believe is the truth of her character."

Oh I agree, and I think you do a great job ^_^

Perhaps I'm just being optimistic, or I'm showing my lack of experience, but it seems like fan opinion has more shared commonalities than differences :)

"I have another TS friend who dressed as WW once. She totally felt like that power and image fit her. And it did!"

Heh, well I'm not into cosplay but big props to her ^_^