SUPERMAN/BATMAN undoing big changes: writers out, new focus announced.

[Sean Walsh]

Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090914-superman-batman-change.html) is leaking some news from the newest Dan Didio Q&A (which is posted later today):

SUPERMAN/BATMAN will start focusing on "reflecting major events of the past of the DC Universe." He mentions Emperor Joker and Our Worlds At War - "those stories will fit within continuity even more tightly now because they're written with the current DC Universe in mind."

Michael Green and Mike Johnson are off the book with #63, which has come out already I believe. A few fill-in issues will come out (including the BLACKEST NIGHT x-over by Scott Kolins) before this new format change takes effect.

[ryerye17]

that's nice.

[West Mantooth]

So is Batman like unstuck in time and reliving all these events?:smile:

[Rev. Calibos]

I wouldn't mind it at all if they just switched gears a tad and offered up a few issues of some other Superman/Batman Family team-ups.

We're getting a 'Nightwing'/Red Robin Mini in October I think, why not have that take place in the pages of Superman/Batman?

Or an issue showing the first team-up between Kara and the new Batgirl?

[Karl O'Neill]

No interest.

As I loved what Green and Johnson were doing with the title.

Who gives a crap about emporer joker and our worlds at war?

[Thok]

I wouldn't mind it at all if they just switched gears a tad and offered up a few issues of some other Superman/Batman Family team-ups.

That's seemingly what the new World's Finest series is for.

[West Mantooth]

Who gives a crap about emporer joker and our worlds at war?


That's a good point. How many events are really worth revisiting?

And beware anything that that's supposed to tie into continuity. Usually it just means new explainations that just confuse people with the retconned nuances.

[KET]

Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090914-superman-batman-change.html) is leaking some news from the newest Dan Didio Q&A (which is posted later today):

SUPERMAN/BATMAN will start focusing on "reflecting major events of the past of the DC Universe." He mentions Emperor Joker and Our Worlds At War - "those stories will fit within continuity even more tightly now because they're written with the current DC Universe in mind."

Michael Green and Mike Johnson are off the book with #63, which has come out already I believe. A few fill-in issues will come out (including the BLACKEST NIGHT x-over by Scott Kolins) before this new format change takes effect.


Translation: Okay, this book keeps shedding readers because Loeb is long gone, so NOW we'll attempt to tie it into retro-continuity.


No surprise Green and Johnson are being dumped, but who are they going to get as a replacement? If "continuity" is the purported new focus, then JMS is likely to be out of the running. DC needs a 'name' writer on this title to keep it afloat, not just another guy from other media on a busman's holiday.

[Sean Walsh]

Who gives a crap about emporer joker and our worlds at war?

Well, if the intent is to refine/spotlight/retcon certain things that happened in them to fit in with the current continuity, that could be interesting.

And I mean, OWAW.......anyone wanna guess this has something to do with Sam Lane?

At least this move finally gets rid of this aura of uncertainty about what is canon in the pages of S/B.

[Karl O'Neill]

Green and Johnston were banging out QUALITY stories, one after the other.

Is this not the benchmark DC is looking for?

[Sean Walsh]

Green and Johnston were banging out QUALITY stories, one after the other.

Is this not the benchmark DC is looking for?

The article does say (and I forgot to mention) that they'll be writing another series soon for DC. So they're not out the door, just on this series.

And honestly, the nature of S/B's canon has always bugged me to stay away from the series full-time. I've bought issues of it, I've liked it, but it was not a regular purchase. These days, canon means a lot to people buying superhero comics, and I'm sure lots of people stayed away because, in the larger picture, S/B's status was shaky, unclear or even unnecessary.

I think that crowd will be more inclined to pick it up if S/B's purpose now is to enhance current continuity by delving into the past.

[Karl O'Neill]

Sean.

As an IN CONTINUITY series, it became redundent when we had TRINITY and all the other superman and batman titles and spin offs.

That's why green and johnson could tell elseworlds kind of stories. But everything else important and relevent could be taken care of in the main titles. That's why this became fun.

Good to hear that creative team are getting more work.

[Clockan]

im so glad those 2 guys are gone from the book. they sucked so bad. say what you want about winick, he's alan freakin moore compared to them. i dont care how many people liked "gosh darn batman".. that arc with shane davis pencilling had so many bad and obvious plot points it made it almost unreadable. thank god for shane davis. and anybody who liked the extra sized 50th issue where they had a meeting between Jor-El and Thomas wayne before their kids grew up needs a cat scan. they are easily the worst writers at DC and the worst writers ive ever had to sit through and read their stuff. the bad thing about this is DC might move them to another book (EDIT-- just read the post about DC putting them someplace els :frown: )

[WorstThingUS]

A lousy book promises to become even lousier by trying to match continuity, something DC overall can't do and this book actually did it so poorly it had to be declared outside of it? Well, if history is an example, it'll still have very nice artwork no matter what.

[Alan2099]

So, the best thing they can think of to have Superman and Batman team-up to do is to tell fill in the blanks stories around events that most people didn't care about to begin with?

[Clockan]

So, the best thing they can think of to have Superman and Batman team-up to do is to tell fill in the blanks stories around events that most people didn't care about to begin with?

i think they're doing that so it can still be bruce and clark.. hopefully when bruce is back they'll do more incontinuity books.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I thought the run by Green & Johnson was fantastic.

The book has always been in continuity, if you care about that sort of thing. The contradictions, if there even are any, can be explained away in story by Myxpltnk, Emperor Joker, Bizarro & Bat-mite having a really crazy dream on day.

This book sucked long and hard following Loeb's depature, but Green & Johnson's stuff was of the same caliber or better in some cases.

Either way, they brought the title back to what it should be--a great showcase for awesome artists doing their best riffs on Supes & Bats and anyone else they can shoe-horn into the story or alternate reality they happen to be playing in this month.

KNEEL BEFORE GRODD!

[Clockan]

I thought the run by Green & Johnson was fantastic.

The book has always been in continuity, if you care about that sort of thing. The contradictions, if there even are any, can be explained away in story by Myxpltnk, Emperor Joker, Bizarro & Bat-mite having a really crazy dream on day.

This book sucked long and hard following Loeb's depature, but Green & Johnson's stuff was of the same caliber or better in some cases.

Either way, they brought the title back to what it should be--a great showcase for awesome artists doing their best riffs on Supes & Bats and anyone else they can shoe-horn into the story or alternate reality they happen to be playing in this month.

KNEEL BEFORE GRODD!
so you are all for jor el and thomas wayne having a chance meeting? you thought that was a good story? seriously?

[Mr Wesley]

So is Batman like unstuck in time and reliving all these events?:smile:

And hoping each time that the next leap will be the leap HOME.

Sorry, I'm rewatching Quantum Leap and I couldn't help myself.

I'm a little confused here. Is Didio that Emperor Joker and OWAW aren't already in continuity? Or is he saying that by tying into older events, Superman/Batman will tie more into DC continuity? Because, really, how is telling "hidden" stories within older events any more in-continuity than Legends of the Dark Knight?

And are Emperor Joker and OWAW the best he could come up with? I can't imagine anything that would get me to turn away from a title than tying it in with OWAW.

[Karl O'Neill]

I thought the run by Green & Johnson was fantastic.



Cool. I am not the only one.

Yes. A chance meeting by jor el and thomas wayne worked.

Do you know clockan? BECAUSE the title was not in continuty.

[Clockan]

Cool. I am not the only one.

Yes. A chance meeting by jor el and thomas wayne worked.

Do you know clockan? BECAUSE the title was not in continuty.

not only was he saying he liked the run but that it was in continuity... i would love to hear how an in continuity story about those 2 meeting is a good thing

[Clockan]

also if it is out of continuity then there should be a point to say which stories are out and which are in. i know im not the only person who has a problem with this book cause its hard to tell what is and what isnt.

[DarienA]

I dropped this book when it dropped out of continuity. For me its always been the way I've read books, no elsewhere books, no team-up books that don't really affect the character, etc.

So I'll be watching to see what happens after these retro stories finish....

[Melfice]

Interesting stuff here. I wonder if this is the series J. Michael Straczynski was teasing us about.

"Co-writers Michael Green and Mike Johnson are permanently off Superman/Batman as of Issue #63, but plans are to have the two co-write another comic within the DCU."

Not sure if that was a great move tho. I really did enjoy their work with the book.

[Batman was taken]

Am I the only one that doesn't care what from the book is and isn't in continuity?

Depending which way they go with this, it could be pretty good.

[DeadXMan]

I miss Loeb.:frown:

[kalorama]

i think they're doing that so it can still be bruce and clark.. hopefully when bruce is back they'll do more incontinuity books.

Exactly. This is just a stopgap measure until they, inevitably, bring Bruce back to life.

[Mat001]

Uh, Bruce has been in the book despite "Final Crisis". The long and short is that the book stopped being in continuity after Loeb left, with the exception of "Torment" which takes place just before "Countdown To Final Crisis" and "Death Of The New Gods". And the stories in the title have not reflected what's going on in the comics. A huge debate went on in various Superman forums about Lana Lang's actions in "The Search For Kryptonite" which took place at the same time her appearences in the main Superman books were going on and the two stories contradicted each other. Green and Johnson took a year to tell us why and did it in a possible future storyline. Not to mention the plot of the US government going against Superman doesn't match up to his being unaware of such a plot until Jimmy tells him.

So what this title is doing is reflecting what went on previously, with both good and bad stories. If JMS takes over the title, it won't affect him since he won't have to be part of a major crossover story. He can just tell stories dealing with both characters. And if it isn't him, it won't affect things too much.

[kalorama]

Uh, Bruce has been in the book despite "Final Crisis".

Uh. . .

Those stories were either finishing up already started storylines or weren't tied to any existing continuity. The clear, stated intent of this change is to tether the book back to continuity in some way, presumably until Bruce returns and they can go back to doing concurrent continuity stories with Bruce and Clark.

Uh . . .

[Sean Walsh]

I miss Loeb.:frown:

Having finally read "With a Vengeance" last week......

....I am very glad he's not involved with DC Comics at the moment., and I more than understand people's rage about his HULK comics.

[CBikle]

No one's ever really cared what was going on in this book and having the stories be flashbacks to old "events" just gives people a different reason not to care.

[Vidocq]

Sucks, I was actually liking Superman/Batman again.

so you are all for jor el and thomas wayne having a chance meeting? you thought that was a good story? seriously?

It was one issue that came out a year ago and hasn't been refferenced since. Get Over it.

[Vidocq]

No one's ever really cared what was going on in this book and having the stories be flashbacks to old "events" just gives people a different reason not to care.

I cared.... Now I don't care.

So congrats DC you lost one reader in a book that already has few of those.

[kalorama]

I cared.... Now I don't care.

So congrats DC you lost one reader in a book that already has few of those.


I'm guessing that at least part of the impetus for change was because of declining sales. They're trying to shake things up in an attempt to get more people interested in the book. Alienating people who are already interested is an unavoidable risk. It all comes down to the plus/minus on new readers attracted vs. old readers lost.

[Lupek]

I dropped all my bat and super titles a while back and was sampling Superman/Batman to get my bat and super fix. This new focus seems like a turn off to me. I was only getting it occasionally because it wasn't strongly tied to continuity or current events. Oh well.

[Captain Jim]

I don't think DC has ever known what to do with this title, from day one.

I suspect readers were losing interest because it obviously couldn't be in present continuity with Bruce Wayne presumed dead and Clark off on New Krypton. And they obviously want the focus to continue to be on Bruce and Clark. So somebody came up with this strange idea. Sorry, not interested.

[Karl O'Neill]

I don't think DC has ever known what to do with this title, from day one.

I suspect readers were losing interest because it obviously couldn't be in present continuity with Bruce Wayne presumed dead and Clark off on New Krypton. And they obviously want the focus to continue to be on Bruce and Clark. So somebody came up with this strange idea. Sorry, not interested.

Not interested either.

AS I said, This title is redundent. If dc feel they have tons more cool story beats for superman and batman, why not write them in one of the many other superman and batman spinoffs.

Or why not launch a ton of mini series.

[jgiannantoni05]

I'm glad Michael Green is gone from the title.

I don't know why some like him. I think he has no business writing DC comic characters. I don't feel he understands them much at all.

I think the art was what kept some people reading the title.

[suttercain]

Hmmm, very interesting. I've been a fan of the series so we'll see how this goes.

[The Batman]

Add me to the chorus of people who've been enjoying Superman/Batman lately and to the chorus of people who are a bit perplexed by this decision.

And while I can appreciate the reasoning for wanting to shake things up and bring the book back into continuity with the mainstream DCU, I'm just not sure that this approach of referencing past events while alluding to present and future ones is the best way to do it.


Also, I think it's just a shame that there isn't room for a book that can just tell fun Superman and Batman stories continuity be damned.

[Will.S]

Since Loeb left I've only been selectively picking up Superman/Batman issues here and there and it's been dependent on either the art or the wacky concepts which I suppose is why Superman/Batman works for what it does as an artist showcase of out of continuity stories.

But to be honest I don't know if it needs to exist either since we've already got a Worlds Finest book coming up and you could easily distribute that type of talent onto more significant books. So I don't see why it neccessarily HAS to exist if Didio thinks that Superman/Batman needs to start referencing old Loeb story lines and other in continuity stories in order for it to be relevant.

[Clockan]

It was one issue that came out a year ago and hasn't been refferenced since. Get Over it.

exactly. with one book.. actually 1 story in part of one oversized and overpriced issue.. they made a joke out of both character backgrounds of the 2 flagship characters of the company. its impressive how they managed to do both at once, and im not supposed to care about it? haha yea right.
heres hoping it was on another earth or not in continuity. and im just pointing out the worst of what they did. plenty plenty more i could point out. only thing good i can think of was "gosh darn batman". but thats not saying much. it was only a matter of time before they did even worse to the characters.

[Clockan]

But to be honest I don't know if it needs to exist either since we've already got a Worlds Finest book coming up and you could easily distribute that type of talent onto more significant books.

isnt the worlds finest book just a mini? or is there gonna be an ongoing after?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

so you are all for jor el and thomas wayne having a chance meeting? you thought that was a good story? seriously?

A) Bat-Computer Simulation

B) Mxy Sneezed

C) Bizarro Farted On The Source Wall

[d newton]

So you are all for jor el and thomas wayne having a chance meeting? you thought that was a good story? seriously?
List the last time Superman's father met Batman's father post crisis in a comic? Oh, that's right - you can't. :tongue:

[Spiffy]

So is Batman like unstuck in time and reliving all these events?:smile:
Yes, an Omega beam obviously hit him, he turned into a White Lantern, while chasing Moby Dick, and he's riding on the Mary Celeste!

[Clockan]

List the last time Superman's father met Batman's father post crisis in a comic? Oh, that's right - you can't. :tongue:

im pretty sure it never happened at any time, before or after crisis.. but that supports my point.. there was no reason to do that other than to be 'tards with no respect for anything pre established to make such a gayfish move. am i missing your point?

[KET]

Since Loeb left I've only been selectively picking up Superman/Batman issues here and there and it's been dependent on either the art or the wacky concepts which I suppose is why Superman/Batman works for what it does as an artist showcase of out of continuity stories.

But to be honest I don't know if it needs to exist either since we've already got a Worlds Finest book coming up and you could easily distribute that type of talent onto more significant books. So I don't see why it necessarily HAS to exist if Didio thinks that Superman/Batman needs to start referencing old Loeb story lines and other in continuity stories in order for it to be relevant.

But yet, that's exactly the point.

The book no longer has a reason to exist. It was initially created as a vanity project for a 'superstar creator' who left the book some time ago, just like ASTONISHING X-MEN. And yet, DC can't let it go, even though it's become beyond obvious that the series is no longer necessary, and merely keeps watering down its flagship characters by its continuance.

Milking old Loeb 'events' is basically DiDio desperately grasping for ANYTHING for sales at this point.

[Slaughter]

Its rage-indulcing to see this book is still being published, while Blue Beetle was pushed to Booster Gold as a back-up.

[Rev. Calibos]

That's seemingly what the new World's Finest series is for.

I think that's the mini I mentioned is titled but I'm not sure.

I'm actually looking forward to it seems to be a more substantial team up given that both the Superman and Batman families are mired in their own massive storylines currently.

Its rage-indulcing to see this book is still being published, while Blue Beetle was pushed to Booster Gold as a back-up.

I can see that. I've always looked at the book as the 'Hulk' of DC (well, the Hulk BEFORE the Hulk that is...)

Big, over the top action, little focus on progression or storytelling.


A popcorn flick compared to the more substantial fare sought out by folks viewing 'Blue Beetle' or 'The All New Atom.'

I've avoided Superman/Batman for this very reason. It's fun, I guess, but it has nothing to do with the current DCU proper so I view it as an unnecessary title.

[Vidocq]

exactly. with one book.. actually 1 story in part of one oversized and overpriced issue.. they made a joke out of both character backgrounds of the 2 flagship characters of the company. its impressive how they managed to do both at once, and im not supposed to care about it? haha yea right.
heres hoping it was on another earth or not in continuity.

You are overreacting. Big time. It's just one story in a book that may or may not be in continuity depending on the writter's and editor's whim (Probably the most popular aspect about this book). And yes, you don't have to care about it if you don't want to. You could always ignore it and pretend it happen in another universe or whatever. Since one issue is so insignificant that DC wont bother to create a Universe where that happened or make up a BS explanation. Not because they don't care, but like I said It's insignificant.

im pretty sure it never happened at any time, before or after crisis.. but that supports my point.. there was no reason to do that other than to be 'tards with no respect for anything pre established to make such a gayfish move. am i missing your point?

It happened ALL The time before Crisis. As a matter of fact funny coincidences that happened before they were heroes is a pretty good summary of about 50% of the Golden and Silver age Superman/Batman teamups.

It's an homage to what it used to be. Like Grant Morrison having Batmite and reffering to all Bill Finger stories in his Batman run.

[Flash's Lightning]

In Monday's "20 Answers and 1 Question" feature on Newsarama, DC Executive Editor Dan DiDio will announce that stories in Superman/Batman will soon begin visiting different events from DC's past. Stories in the title will not only expand upon the role played by the two main characters in these events, but will tie the events into current continuity.

"Over the next year, you're going to see Superman/Batman actually reflecting major events of the past of the DC Universe," DiDio said. "We're going to be building up other stories, other events, using these characters."

I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing. I just see them dropping the ball on this one, and I really don't want to read old stories of Superman/Batman. I'd rather them replace it with a Superboy/Robin or Superman/New Batman or something. Superman/Wonder Woman even would be better than old stories of no importance.

But that's just me. What about you?

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/090914-superman-batman-change.html

[Dial W for What the...?]

I agree. I usually hate a rehash of an old story. I also think it hurts having more than one "Batman" in the DC uni. Just give Wayne a rest and let Grayson do some adventures of his own. Maybe instead of a Superman/New Batman maybe an Monel/Batman storyline. Both working out trying to fit into anothers lagacy and so on.

[Flash's Lightning]

I agree. I usually hate a rehash of an old story. I also think it hurts having more than one "Batman" in the DC uni. Just give Wayne a rest and let Grayson do some adventures of his own. Maybe instead of a Superman/New Batman maybe an Monel/Batman storyline. Both working out trying to fit into anothers lagacy and so on.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mon El and Dick have some adventures.

[earl]

There are plenty of Batman stories that have worked out as tales set in his past.

I'm not sure it will work trying to shoehorn it into current story lines, unless you are playing out some classic confrontation kind of story with a high quality creators.

[d newton]

I'm pretty sure it never happened at any time, before or after crisis.. but that supports my point.. there was no reason to do that other than to be 'tards with no respect for anything pre established to make such a gayfish move. am i missing your point?
Yes - you haven't listed 1 issue other than S/B 50 where they met!

[dupersuper]

The article does say (and I forgot to mention) that they'll be writing another series soon for DC. So they're not out the door, just on this series.


That's good, I was liking some of their stuff. I have no problem with the new format though; I'm a sucker for Superman Confidential/ Worlds Finest by Kessel/ Secret Origins/ Year 1/ JLA: Incarnation/ Legends of the DCU/ Legends of the Dark Knight type stuff that shows various time periods in the DCU.

[dupersuper]

Translation: Okay, this book keeps shedding readers because Loeb is long gone, so NOW we'll attempt to tie it into retro-continuity.


No surprise Green and Johnson are being dumped, but who are they going to get as a replacement? If "continuity" is the purported new focus, then JMS is likely to be out of the running. DC needs a 'name' writer on this title to keep it afloat, not just another guy from other media on a busman's holiday.

Shedding readers? Really? After 6 Loebs run kinda' sucked...
Any word yet on what Green and Johnson are moved to?

[dupersuper]

im pretty sure it never happened at any time, before or after crisis.. but that supports my point.. there was no reason to do that other than to be 'tards with no respect for anything pre established to make such a gayfish move. am i missing your point?

It's hard to take some ones literary criticism seriously when it contains the phrases "tards" and "gayfish"...

[dupersuper]

im pretty sure it never happened at any time, before or after crisis.. but that supports my point.. there was no reason to do that other than to be 'tards with no respect for anything pre established to make such a gayfish move. am i missing your point?

It's hard to take some ones literary criticism seriously when it contains the phrases "tards" and "gayfish"...

[WorstThingUS]

double post

[KET]

Shedding readers? Really? After 6 Loebs run kinda' sucked...

It was never that great to begin with, but obviously, DiDio thinks recycling old Loeb 'events' is what this title now needs to stop bleeding off readers. Outside of a few sales bumps whenever a new team has been put on this book, the tide ebbing has been pretty consistent.


Any word yet on what Green and Johnson are moved to?

Not yet; of course, with as many DC series flailing (if they don't have automatic BLACKEST NIGHT tie-ins propping them up at the moment), those two could probably be sent just about anywhere in the DCU right now. :wink:

[WorstThingUS]

Shedding readers? Really? After 6 Loebs run kinda' sucked...
Any word yet on what Green and Johnson are moved to?

I thought Loebs run sucked, but that was years ago so it hasn't been running off of that period. I'm thinking if you're a Superman and Batman fan, there's so much crap you have to buy now between RIP and WOK you just can't afford a frivolous book like this any longer because it's the same now as it's always been: bad writing, pretty art.

It's hard to take some ones literary criticism seriously when it contains the phrases "tards" and "gayfish"...

Yes, the correct terms are "developmentally disabled homosexual aquatic life."

[Clockan]

Yes - you haven't listed 1 issue other than S/B 50 where they met!

:confused:
of course i havent.. what is your point? the fact that it was such a stupid story that nobody els in the whole company wanted to touch it is a good thing? how does that not support my point? so what if nobody is referencing it.. that doesnt make them anyless terrible as writers. im giving that example of how bad they are. your counter is that nobody is using it so they are allowed to be terrible. so that makes them not terrible? :confused: i really hope thats not your point cause its stupid and makes no sense. so please, tell me.. what is your point?

It's hard to take some ones literary criticism seriously when it contains the phrases "tards" and "gayfish"...

yea this is more true than it isnt but what exactly do you expect from an internet forum? and note a forum about comic books
and as the guy with the silent bob avatar you arent gonna convince me you're above such language so cut the superiority act:rolleyes:

[dupersuper]

as the guy with the silent bob avatar you arent gonna convince me you're above such language so cut the superiority act:rolleyes:


I'm not above swearing, I think most people over 12 are above tards and gayfish, except perhaps ironicly. Why not just call the writers you don't like "stupidheads"? :biggrin:

[Clockan]

I'm not above swearing, I think most people over 12 are above tards and gayfish, except perhaps ironicly. Why not just call the writers you don't like "stupidheads"? :biggrin:

gayfish is kinda my new word.. new group of friends and i never used it before.. im liking it

[Maestro]

this title was created for Jeph Loeb and it really should have been cancelled after he left. JLA should be the place for Superman/Batman team-ups, and with all the other heroes too

[WorstThingUS]

gayfish is kinda my new word.. new group of friends and i never used it before.. im liking it

If homophoic slurs are what they're into, then you should find yet another new group of friends.

[divengrabber]

SUPERMAN u r my super hero.

[d newton]

The fact that it was such a stupid story that nobody else in the whole company wanted to touch it is a good thing?
Show me how having the fathers of 2 long time DC characters meet is a stupid story?

[WorstThingUS]

Show me how having the fathers of 2 long time DC characters meet is a stupid story?

Show me how it's not. Thomas Wayne, murdered on earth when Bruce was eight and Jor-El who died when Krypton exploded trillions of miles away across the galaxy when Clark was an infant still somehow managed to meet (if Jor-El could make it to earth why is he dead again?) and this meeting just happened to have led to saving the Wayne fortune. Hell, why stop there? Why not have Hippolyta on a heretofore unknown visit to Patriarch's World involved as well!?! And Hal Jordan's dad just happen to be on leave there too! And they fight Luthor's dad!

In the Silver Age this type of silly thing happened all the time, but even they knew where to draw line. But they had editors in those days.

[Clockan]

Show me how it's not. Thomas Wayne, murdered on earth when Bruce was eight and Jor-El who died when Krypton exploded trillions of miles away across the galaxy when Clark was an infant still somehow managed to meet (if Jor-El could make it to earth why is he dead again?) and this meeting just happened to have led to saving the Wayne fortune. Hell, why stop there? Why not have Hippolyta on a heretofore unknown visit to Patriarch's World involved as well!?! And Hal Jordan's dad just happen to be on leave there too! And they fight Luthor's dad!

In the Silver Age this type of silly thing happened all the time, but even they knew where to draw line. But they had editors in those days.

pretty much what he said. though i would mostly point out that like many of the stories these guys wrote, the story leaves the door open to to many questions. if Jor-El could make it to earth then there is no reason for him, his wife, his brother and his brothers wife to have died on krypton. i doubt they had feelings of "going down with the ship".

its like in that search for kryptonite arc that shane davis did the pencils. remember in the last issue when it was explained that the defense system for lex tower turn on when something flying at high speed is going towards it? superman must fly past that dozens of times a day, and thats the first time they turned on? what a bad explanation for having an excuse to have missiles being shot at them. complete lack of consistency. even if you argue it was lana lang lying its such a bad lie nobody would say something that dumb. terrible terrible writing.

same with that moon stone that was from krypton years before krypton even exploded. or the mega bunker in smallville thats encased in lead. Superman never noticed that huge bunker there? come on. i remember having so many questions about those things and thats always bad story telling. if you leave the audience questioning everything, you did a bad job. and it seems like that happens almost every issue with these guys. the meeting of jor el and Thomas Wayne was simply the peak of stupidity and thats why im concentrating mostly on that.

[d newton]

Thomas Wayne, murdered on earth when Bruce was eight and Jor-El who died when Krypton exploded trillions of miles away across the galaxy when Clark was an infant still somehow managed to meet (if Jor-El could make it to earth why is he dead again?) and this meeting just happened to have led to saving the Wayne fortune.
Having 2 dead guys meeting doesn't make it a bad story - in fact, the opposite happens.

[Clockan]

Having 2 dead guys meeting doesn't make it a bad story - in fact, the opposite happens.

i dont even know why you bother responding like this. by being so selective with what you respond to youre actually hurting your argument supporting the writers ability. youre obviously avoiding the main point on purpose and making spin. you did the same with my argument before. you completely ignored me when i asked you to clarify your point of bringing up how it happening in only one issue is a positive as far as their ability as writers.

[Draconomicon]

It was never that great to begin with, but obviously, DiDio thinks recycling old Loeb 'events' is what this title now needs to stop bleeding off readers. Outside of a few sales bumps whenever a new team has been put on this book, the tide ebbing has been pretty consistent.



I think they overlook the very very obvious.
Oversaturation.
How many gazillion Superman and Batman books -do- we need??

[Mat001]

As many as possible. Superman and Batman sell, so the more you have, the more money you make.

[d newton]

I don't even know why you bother responding like this. By being so selective with what you respond to you're actually hurting your argument supporting the writers ability. You're obviously avoiding the main point on purpose and making spin. You did the same with my argument before. You completely ignored me when i asked you to clarify your point of bringing up how it happening in only one issue is a positive as far as their ability as writers
When you pull comments out of thin air like these, then of course people will ignore you:
What a bad explanation for having an excuse to have missiles being shot at them. Complete lack of consistency. Even if you argue it was lana lang lying, it's such a bad lie - nobody would say something that dumb. Terrible terrible writing.

Same with that moonstone that was from krypton years before krypton even exploded or the mega bunker in Smallville that's encased in lead. Superman never noticed that huge bunker there? Come on. I remember having so many questions about those things and that's always bad story telling. if you leave the audience questioning everything, you did a bad job. And it seems like that happens almost every issue with these guys. The meeting of Jor-el and Thomas Wayne was simply the peak of stupidity and that's why I'm concentrating mostly on that.