Wonder Woman's Invulnerability

[WorstThingUS]

Okay, we've just seen her punch out a nuke with no burns, but what is the nature of her invulnerability? If she let bullets hit her would they bounce off with not so much as a tickle like Superman? Would a knife shatter on her considering she flies through debris and shrapnel without a scratch? I ask because I can't remember ever seeing something like that.

[Alex Smith]

I was under the impression she was vulnerable to piercing things like knives and bullets.

[BnL]

She should definitely be invulnerable to bullets. That whole reasoning of "blunt force VS a sharpened instrument" doesn't really hold up, considering the fact that she's withstood punches from Superman, nuclear blasts, etc. If you can walk away from that, you can shrug off bullets and knives.

As for why she still deflects bullets anyway, my fanwank is that it's because she can control the direction they fly off in this way. If she just let them bounce off her, they could ricochet haphazardly and injure someone.

[ScottyQuick]

She deflects bullets because if you could, wouldn't you?

Think of how badass that would look

"Oh, hey Clark. I see your shirt's kinda ripped. Maybe you should invest in a pair of bracelets. Ouch, Bruce, still bleeding? I guess not everyone can be an Amazon."

[Constantine Drakon]

Piercing weapons, like swords, spears, arrows, bullets, knives, etc. can pierce her.

Against blunt force attacks, flame, and pretty much everything else, she has far more resiliance.

If that doesn't make sense to you, you're looking at it scientifically, forgetting she's a creature of magic.

Magic doesn't give a fiddler's fart about logic.

[suedenim]

She should definitely be invulnerable to bullets. That whole reasoning of "blunt force VS a sharpened instrument" doesn't really hold up, considering the fact that she's withstood punches from Superman, nuclear blasts, etc. If you can walk away from that, you can shrug off bullets and knives.

As for why she still deflects bullets anyway, my fanwank is that it's because she can control the direction they fly off in this way. If she just let them bounce off her, they could ricochet haphazardly and injure someone.

I agree with this, but it does point out a problem with Wonder Woman being in a shared universe. There's nothing intrinsic in the concept of Wonder Woman that requires her to be invulnerable, or to be able to fly, for that matter. But she has those abilities because she's in the same shared universe as Superman.

By and large, given that they are in a shared universe, I think having her on a par with Superman is a good thing, and the good points of that outweigh the bad, but there *are* some drawbacks.

But I found it refreshing to see Diana at a "reduced" power level in the animated movie, where Superman not being around freed her to be just Wonder Woman, which is plenty super enough in that context.

[bigbluntz]

That's one thing I never understood about WW. If your invulnerable to bullets why the hell take the time to block them all fancy like with your bracelets?

[Evil Eleanor]

She should definitely be invulnerable to bullets.

No, she should not.

"Piercing weapons" are her kryptonite. She's got a way two avoid it (two ways, in fact, one per arm), but it's her primary weakness.



That whole reasoning of "blunt force VS a sharpened instrument" doesn't really hold up,

It only fails to hold up if you approach it scientifically. But her invulnerability is magical in nature. It doesn't have to make sense. "Piercing weapons" hurt her more than blunt force.

[West Mantooth]

Piercing weapons, like swords, spears, arrows, bullets, knives, etc. can pierce her.


Are bullets considered piercing weapons though?

[Shatagni]

You guys are not factoring in density.

If you hit a wall with a blunt force, the energy distributes and the wall absorbs the impact and not much damage is done. But if you use a piecing object with all the force concentrated on one point, you can create a breach.

Besides, it's not that she's totally invulnerable to blunt force. If she's hit hard enough, she does bleed.

[Black Atom]

You guys are not factoring in density.

If you hit a wall with a blunt force, the energy distributes and the wall absorbs the impact and not much damage is done. But if you use a piecing object with all the force concentrated on one point, you can create a breach.

Besides, it's not that she's totally invulnerable to blunt force. If she's hit hard enough, she does bleed.

Seems the smart thing to do, if you're someone with strength of Superman for instance, would be just to poke her.

[Shatagni]

Seems the smart thing to do, if you're someone with strength of Superman for instance, would be just to poke her.

Which why the whole Bracelets and Lightning fast reflexes thing is needed. I think she also has sort of a healing factor but then again it seems that every superhero has some kind of healing factor.

[joshmc]

It's a bit of a grey area, but what it boils down to is that she needs some level vulnerability otherwise there's no threat to the character. Should she be like Superman? IMO no, however she should be able to withstand injury more so than the average human, but still be prone to injury via weapon or extremely severe blunt force trauma.

[Constantine Drakon]

Are bullets considered piercing weapons though?

According to whatever magic is giving her that invulnerability, yes.

Again: you do not have to feel it is logical. It's magic. It's allowed be capricious.

Someone brought up Superman's finger. Wouldn't work the same way. Why not? Because magic doesn't consider Superman's finger a piercing weapon. Scientifically you can argue that it would have the same effect as a bullet. Magic doesn't care.

[BnL]

No, she should not.

"Piercing weapons" are her kryptonite. She's got a way two avoid it (two ways, in fact, one per arm), but it's her primary weakness.



It only fails to hold up if you approach it scientifically. But her invulnerability is magical in nature. It doesn't have to make sense. "Piercing weapons" hurt her more than blunt force.

"It's magical" is a lazy explanation, IMO. And even by those standards, it doesn't really make much sense to me.

I'm not in favor of her having no weaknesses. I think it'd be cool if Circe cast a spell that restored her Pre-Crisis weakness of having her bracelets bound together. It'd also be cool if lying and deception drained some of her power. As it is, her weakness is that she's completely powerless in her "Diana Prince" identity.

[Flâneur]

Bullets have bounced off of her before and almost all instances in recent continuity of her getting hurt by piercing damage involved mitigating circumstances. She's weaker to piercing damage than blunt trauma, just as any object is (take the wall example), but she's not as vulnerable to it as an ordinary person.

[Death by Mime]

Wait, so if she's unable to block or evade a bullet (let's say she's restrained somehow), would just anyone be able to kill her with a handgun?

I've always assumed because of her bracelet blocking trick she had to be somehow vulnerable to bullets, but that just doesn't seem right.

[Death by Mime]

Bullets have bounced off of her before and almost all instances in recent continuity of her getting hurt by piercing damage involved mitigating circumstances. She's weaker to piercing damage than blunt trauma, just as any object is (take the wall example), but she's not as vulnerable to it as an ordinary person.

Yeah, this makes more sense to me.

[Constantine Drakon]

"It's magical" is a lazy explanation, IMO.

The book's got a whole lot of magic.

And "binding the bracelets"? Thank you, no, I'd prefer the book was canceled entirely rather than have it go back to the bondage.

[MinaRho1]

Yeah, this makes more sense to me.

Bullets could sometimes bounce off bison-hide sheilds the plains indians used. Depending on the angle, and distance.

I always understood her to be tougher than a normal human, but it would be possible to stab and kill her. Death by Mime, I think if she were restrained, it would be possible to kill her by shooting her.

It would also have to be a definite kill shot. If the bullet missed vital areas she very well might heal before it had a chance to kill her, if that makes any sense.

[Constantine Drakon]

Wow, multiple posts due to firefox restarting. Sorry.

[Constantine Drakon]

sorry.
__________________

[Constantine Drakon]

sorry.
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[West Mantooth]

According to whatever magic is giving her that invulnerability, yes.

Again: you do not have to feel it is logical. It's magic. It's allowed be capricious.

Someone brought up Superman's finger. Wouldn't work the same way. Why not? Because magic doesn't consider Superman's finger a piercing weapon. Scientifically you can argue that it would have the same effect as a bullet. Magic doesn't care.

See. I just accepted it before. All heroes are inconsistent in some form.

She's super vulnerable to magic and extremely resilient to physical harm. That's all I thought of it.

Having a bullet sticking out of your chest is still going to hurt.

[4PointOh]

From WONDER WOMAN SECRET FILES #1

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/39/l_c5353eb970e04a9bbca0ee7ed269d07e.jpg

[JKCarrier]

I agree with this, but it does point out a problem with Wonder Woman being in a shared universe. There's nothing intrinsic in the concept of Wonder Woman that requires her to be invulnerable, or to be able to fly, for that matter. But she has those abilities because she's in the same shared universe as Superman.

Agreed. And of course, Superman's powers have escalated a lot over the years too. Every once in a while, they try to scale him back, but he always creeps back up again.


Someone brought up Superman's finger. Wouldn't work the same way. Why not? Because magic doesn't consider Superman's finger a piercing weapon.

What if he hasn't trimmed his fingernails lately? :tongue:

[ShaunN]

No, she should not.

"Piercing weapons" are her kryptonite. She's got a way two avoid it (two ways, in fact, one per arm), but it's her primary weakness.



It only fails to hold up if you approach it scientifically. But her invulnerability is magical in nature. It doesn't have to make sense. "Piercing weapons" hurt her more than blunt force.

Let's just accept that Diana's vulnerability to bullets or to sharp objects makes no sense and leave it at that. She should not be vulnerable to any of these things, but she is and there is no logical explanation. The "magic" explanation doesn't work for me - there is nothing in the situation that created Diana to indicate that this vulnerability was programmed in.

I, for one, would happily accept an upgrade in her powers - let's establish that these kind of weapons actually don't hurt her or can't kill her (though some may hurt) and bring some consistency to her portrayal. Someone who can walk away from a nuclear blast, a punch from Superman, a fall from orbit, etc., simply is not going to be stopped or even hurt by the blunt force of a bullet and should certainly be far too tough for a knife to penetrate or seriously hurt.

Having made this argument, something occurs to me: a few years ago, in a Superman story (where Diana was a guest-star) Clark lost his invulnerability -i.e, the forcefield that protects him from harm. What ended up happening was interesting - people shot him and the bullets passed through his body, but they did relatively little harm and did not stop him. It seemed that his body was so tough that bullet could do enough damage to get through him, but could not do any collateral damage. Also, he was probably healing really fast, as some of his powers were still intact.

If we kept this idea, then maybe Diana could be damaged by a bullet, etc., but just not killed or seriously hurt. But since her invulnerability (such as it is) is based on her physical durability and not a forcefield, this argument may not apply.

[Wonder Watcher]

I agree, we should just accept it.

Physics and comic books are never a good mix I've found. Fact is, with the vulnerability the first time she was punched through a building she'd be impaled on reinforcing rods.

This vulnerability to piercing weapons gets harder to logically justify as her other invulnerabilities ramped up.

However, vulnerability to cutting and piercing weapons is about her only weakness and is part of the character. This vulnerabiity makes her more heroic in my opinion.

I think she should need her bracelets, both for deflecting bullets etc and to withstand high energy attacks - like nuclear explosions.

I don't think she needs to have a Kryptonian's invulnerability.

One tenuous explanation for her weakness might be that she derives her strength and invulnerability from Gaea and anything that damages 'the earth' would damage her. Simply put earth can be cleaved but it's difficult to crush.

[4PointOh]

Let's just accept that Diana's vulnerability to bullets or to sharp objects makes no sense and leave it at that. She should not be vulnerable to any of these things, but she is and there is no logical explanation. The "magic" explanation doesn't work for me - there is nothing in the situation that created Diana to indicate that this vulnerability was programmed in.

I, for one, would happily accept an upgrade in her powers - let's establish that these kind of weapons actually don't hurt her or can't kill her (though some may hurt) and bring some consistency to her portrayal. Someone who can walk away from a nuclear blast, a punch from Superman, a fall from orbit, etc., simply is not going to be stopped or even hurt by the blunt force of a bullet and should certainly be far too tough for a knife to penetrate or seriously hurt.

Having made this argument, something occurs to me: a few years ago, in a Superman story (where Diana was a guest-star) Clark lost his invulnerability -i.e, the forcefield that protects him from harm. What ended up happening was interesting - people shot him and the bullets passed through his body, but they did relatively little harm and did not stop him. It seemed that his body was so tough that bullet could do enough damage to get through him, but could not do any collateral damage. Also, he was probably healing really fast, as some of his powers were still intact.

If we kept this idea, then maybe Diana could be damaged by a bullet, etc., but just not killed or seriously hurt. But since her invulnerability (such as it is) is based on her physical durability and not a forcefield, this argument may not apply.

Phil Jimenez's explanation is that her bracelets are, in fact, amping up her durability, providing a magical force-field of sorts around her that helps absorb blunt force, heat, cold, etc.

[suedenim]

Phil Jimenez's explanation is that her bracelets are, in fact, amping up her durability, providing a magical force-field of sorts around her that helps absorb blunt force, heat, cold, etc.

Interestingly, one of the tweaks/clarifications Geoff Johns made for Hawkman is that the Hawks' Nth Metal does similar things for them.

[JKCarrier]

You've got two conflicting forces at work. On the one hand, they want WW to be a top-tier powerhouse, able to go toe-to-toe with Superman. On the other hand, the bullets-and-bracelets routine is so iconic, so cool, and so uniquely hers that it would be a shame to give it up. So she ends up deflecting bullets, even though logically she shouldn't need to. And you get these contrived, ad hoc explanations about how her invulnerability is weirdly specific and conditional in order to justify it. Which puts her right back in the position of being inferior to Superman, who doesn't have those limitations. It's kind of a no-win scenario.

[rab082154]

I like the idea that Chris Claremont came up with in Superman/Wonder Woman Whom Gods Destroy.

His Lois "Wonder Woman" could be shot, and it hurt like all hell, but it didn't pierce her skin, thus the reason for the bullets and bracelets.

Maybe she is invulnerable to a point, but her brain isn't set up like other invulnerable characters and she can still feel the pain of whatever is hitting her, in comes Amazon training that teaches her to work through the pain, and uses it as a focus to get the job done.

[West Mantooth]

I like the idea that Chris Claremont came up with in Superman/Wonder Woman Whom Gods Destroy.

His Lois "Wonder Woman" could be shot, and it hurt like all hell, but it didn't pierce her skin, thus the reason for the bullets and bracelets.

Maybe she is invulnerable to a point, but her brain isn't set up like other invulnerable characters and she can still feel the pain of whatever is hitting her, in comes Amazon training that teaches her to work through the pain, and uses it as a focus to get the job done.

Yeah. That's what I basically put it up. It hurts to some degree.

But the problem is then she punches a nuke and flys away. Like everyone says, just let it go and enjoy the ride.

[PabloD]

Piercing weapons, like swords, spears, arrows, bullets, knives, etc. can pierce her.

I kind of wonder if this specific weakness may have been incorporated in part to make it possible for writers to have Diana fight ancient or mythological beings (who in fantasy and fiction are usually depicted as being prone to making use of such weapons) even in the face of her increased, Superman-like invulnerability. So writers can produce stories where Diana fights someone like say, King Arthur or Beowulf or whoever, and provided they make use of bladed weapons, these characters can still pose some form of credible threat to her safety.

[RealWonderman]

She's a character of mythology...Greek Mythology...think of piercing objecst as her Achilles heel.
I for one have no problem with the explanation of piercing objects, BTW. If someone poked me with their finger, or pokes me with the end of a baseball bat (blundt), or if I run into a wall, it's not gonna hurt or pierce my skin or cut me like being jabbed with a needle, or being stabbed with a knife.
Also, if you take the idea that her bracelets have a type of protective field (when crossed, I believe) she could survive a nuclear blast, but still need to block piercintg objects.

Also, if someboby kicks or punches my car tire...even if they kick or punch it REALLY hard, it's not likely to pop, but a nail will pierce it, and a knife will cut it (simple, I know, but true)

[West Mantooth]

She's a character of mythology...Greek Mythology...think of piercing objecst as her Achilles heel.
I for one have no problem with the explanation of piercing objects, BTW. If someone poked me with their finger, or pokes me with the end of a baseball bat (blundt), or if I run into a wall, it's not gonna hurt or pierce my skin or cut me like being jabbed with a needle, or being stabbed with a knife.
Also, if you take the idea that her bracelets have a type of protective field (when crossed, I believe) she could survive a nuclear blast, but still need to block piercintg objects.

Also, if someboby kicks or punches my car tire...even if they kick or punch it REALLY hard, it's not likely to pop, but a nail will pierce it, and a knife will cut it (simple, I know, but true)


That's all true, but the bullet wouldn't pierce her without a gun firing it. A knife or etc would if she fell off a buiding on onto sharp pieces of glass.

I guess what makes it seems so weird is that it would sounds like people are saying that a musketball wouldn't affect her but a modern bullet would?

[Superbeast]

There's something odd about the fact people could beat Diana with baseball bats all day and get no results but they could stab her in the chest with a sharp HB pencil and that'd be a wrap.

[RealWonderman]

There's something odd about the fact people could beat Diana with baseball bats all day and get no results but they could stab her in the chest with a sharp HB pencil and that'd be a wrap.

Not quite.

[Superbeast]

Not quite.

Well sharp objects damage and blunt force doesn't, right? So a sharp HB pencil would be more useful than 4 dudes with Louisville sluggers in a fight against WW.

[RealWonderman]

Well sharp objects damage and blunt force doesn't, right? So a sharp HB pencil would be more useful than 4 dudes with Louisville sluggers in a fight against WW.

But neither would be effective.

[PabloD]

Yeah, saying Wonder Woman can be killed with a pencil is like saying Batman can be killed with a pencil. Both are technically true, but it's pretty hard to imagine anyone actually managing to do it.

[DHacker615]

She should definitely be invulnerable to bullets. That whole reasoning of "blunt force VS a sharpened instrument" doesn't really hold up, considering the fact that she's withstood punches from Superman, nuclear blasts, etc. If you can walk away from that, you can shrug off bullets and knives.

As for why she still deflects bullets anyway, my fanwank is that it's because she can control the direction they fly off in this way. If she just let them bounce off her, they could ricochet haphazardly and injure someone.

I totally disagree.

The visual of Wonder Woman deflecting bullets with her bracelets is the defining visual for the character. A huge part of what makes her unique is that she defends herself using amazing speed and quickness. It is a quality that makes both Spider-Man and Wolverine appealing, so I'd say it is not exactly a liability.

Plus, it keeps Wonder Woman more unique. DC already has Supergirl and Power Girl that are invulnerable to small arms fire.

[troy2g1]

Bullets have bounced off of her before ...

Really?! Any chance you can provide scans and/or issue #'s?

[troy2g1]

Phil Jimenez's explanation is that her bracelets are, in fact, amping up her durability, providing a magical force-field of sorts around her that helps absorb blunt force, heat, cold, etc.

I don't like that at all. I never really understood why some writers want to take abilities away from Diana. Gail has seemingly done the same thing with Wonder Woman's truth powers.

[Deus ex Chris]

I think Wonder Woman should be highly durable--beyond a mortal's capacity to kill. The vambraces should be there to protect her from things like Omega Beams, lightning from Zeus, and being turned into a pillar of salt.

[Xeres]

Well Diana has been shot with normal guns.

I don't like a "too powerful" Diana. Nukes should hurt. Maybe not a lot but it should be something she just shrugs off. Blunt force trauma obviously hurts - look at her after her fight with Genocide.

Ultimately though she will be as invulnerable as the story wants / needs. So if the writer wants to show how tough she is - yeah she can punch a nuke point blank without problem. If the writer then needs to make her vulnerable she can be taken down by a stiff breeze. Not just any stiff breeze - a magical one. Then people like us come on forums like this and cry inconsistency. We're right but it really won't change anything. It'll continue and that's that.

[4PointOh]

I don't like that at all. I never really understood why some writers want to take abilities away from Diana. Gail has seemingly done the same thing with Wonder Woman's truth powers.

They often do the same with Superman. It's because it's really difficult to tell compelling stories with heroes who have no weaknesses. If Wonder Woman is invulnerable, the strongest woman in the universe, nearly as fast as The Flash, the best fighter ever, etc, etc, etc, who could ever present her a challenge? Why does she even need the bracelets or tiara?

It was NEVER Marston's intent for her to be invulnerable (or to fly for that matter). Invulnerability is such a cop-out to me. It always reads as "I fight because I know you can't hurt me." It always made Wonder Woman more courageous in my eyes that she walked into the same battles Superman did but with greater risk to her personal safety because she wasn't invulnerable.

[Xeres]

It always made Wonder Woman more courageous in my eyes that she walked into the same battles Superman did but with greater risk to her personal safety because she wasn't invulnerable.

Yep. My thoughts exactly.

[Wonder Watcher]

They often do the same with Superman. It's because it's really difficult to tell compelling stories with heroes who have no weaknesses. If Wonder Woman is invulnerable, the strongest woman in the universe, nearly as fast as The Flash, the best fighter ever, etc, etc, etc, who could ever present her a challenge? Why does she even need the bracelets or tiara?

It was NEVER Marston's intent for her to be invulnerable (or to fly for that matter). Invulnerability is such a cop-out to me. It always reads as "I fight because I know you can't hurt me." It always made Wonder Woman more courageous in my eyes that she walked into the same battles Superman did but with greater risk to her personal safety because she wasn't invulnerable.
I agree, although from my point of view it's less about it being harder to craft the stories and more that it's moving away from things that help go towards making the character who she is.

There's been a gradual increase in her durability of the last several years that culminated in Diana punching out the nuke recently. I thought nukes were tough even for Kryptonians to shrug off ? (I'm possibly a little behind the times here).

Anyway, there does come a point when it just becomes too much invulnerability.

[Superbeast]

Yeah, saying Wonder Woman can be killed with a pencil is like saying Batman can be killed with a pencil. Both are technically true, but it's pretty hard to imagine anyone actually managing to do it.

If anyone could, Lady Shiva could. Actually, have Shiva and Diana ever thrown down?

[PabloD]

If anyone could, Lady Shiva could.

To Batman, maybe. Not to Wonder Woman.

[MinaRho1]

No superhero is invulnerable. I hate the word. So Knockout and Barda had partial invulnerability? WTF? Being a little bit invulnerable is like being a little bit pregnant.

Use words correctly! Highly durable, would be a better term. Superman isn't invulnerable if you take magic and kryptonite into account. Heck, he even gets bloodied and bruised when he fights characters of similar strength levels -- Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, etc.

Highly Durable or resistant gives the writer some wiggle room, I think. That's how I see Wonder Woman. Highly resistant to *some* forms of harm. Its up to the writer how far that goes anyway. As other have said, just go with it.

[JKCarrier]

No superhero is invulnerable. I hate the word.

Ha, that's one of my pet peeves too. Back in the Silver Age, Superman was invulnerable, for all intents and purposes, and that word seemed to stick (and get applied to other characters), even once it was no longer literally true.

[Superbeast]

To Batman, maybe. Not to Wonder Woman.

I'm sure Shiva could distract Diana in a fight and be able to stab her. Not saying WW wouldn't then punch her so hard her jaw flew off but I could see Diana being focused on a barrage of strikes and then only feeling a sharp pain, looking down and seeing something sticking out of her chest.

[JCAll]

About the "It's magic" line. Was it ever stated that Wonder Woman's weaknes to piercing damage, was a limitation on the magic making her durable? Sort of like a certain GL ring being made weak to wood. If it was, I have no problem accepting that, but if it's just an assumption I'm calling foul.

[PabloD]

I'm sure Shiva could distract Diana in a fight and be able to stab her. Not saying WW wouldn't then punch her so hard her jaw flew off but I could see Diana being focused on a barrage of strikes and then only feeling a sharp pain, looking down and seeing something sticking out of her chest.
I'm mostly going by the fact that "weakness" to sharp/bladed weapons aside, Wonder Woman has much more in common with characters like Superman or Captain Marvel than she does with Batman or Lady Shiva. She can move at like half the speed of light and destroy infrastructure with her hands and such. Which is to say, any move or skill that a normal human could whip up in a fight more or less just wouldn't become a factor. I mean, she wouldn't even feel their attacks (or could move out of the way superfast) and could see a sharp weapon coming, basically, in slow motion.

[Superbeast]

I'm mostly going by the fact that "weakness" to sharp/bladed weapons aside, Wonder Woman has much more in common with characters like Superman or Captain Marvel than she does with Batman or Lady Shiva. She can move at like half the speed of light and destroy infrastructure with her hands and such. Which is to say, any move or skill that a normal human could whip up in a fight more or less just wouldn't become a factor. I mean, she wouldn't even feel their attacks (or could move out of the way superfast) and could see a sharp weapon coming, basically, in slow motion.

Well as the saying goes, it's not the punches you see coming that knock you out, it's the one you don't. Diana might be keeping an eye on the punches at her face but what if Shiva nicked her femoral artery and Diana didn't notice until she head the blood drip onto her boot?

Shiva might not be able to take Diana one on one in terms of power, but she's probably miles ahead in terms of understanding balance, leverage, parrying to unbalance attackers and distracting her opponents in a fight with petty blows so she can land a kill strike.

Both are women in the best shape possible and are highly skilled in hand to hand combat, just one is coming from Greek roots and the other from Asian roots. I'm not saying Diana couldn't beat the crap out of her, what I am suggesting is it might be a battle where Diana would have to think as a fighter rather than just lashing out with force, because that force could be turned against her by someone like Shiva, who'd stand in the way of an innocent little girl then step aside as Diana flew towards her and then slammed on the brakes, just so Shiva could get that momentary opening to try slice off Diana's head or something. As Joe Rogan likes to say, styles clashes can make fights really ugly or real interesting. I think Shiva could pose some unique problems for Diana as she is much more of a tactician in battle.

[MinaRho1]

Well as the saying goes, it's not the punches you see coming that knock you out, it's the one you don't. Diana might be keeping an eye on the punches at her face but what if Shiva nicked her femoral artery and Diana didn't notice until she head the blood drip onto her boot?

Shiva might not be able to take Diana one on one in terms of power, but she's probably miles ahead in terms of understanding balance, leverage, parrying to unbalance attackers and distracting her opponents in a fight with petty blows so she can land a kill strike.

Both are women in the best shape possible and are highly skilled in hand to hand combat, just one is coming from Greek roots and the other from Asian roots. I'm not saying Diana couldn't beat the crap out of her, what I am suggesting is it might be a battle where Diana would have to think as a fighter rather than just lashing out with force, because that force could be turned against her by someone like Shiva, who'd stand in the way of an innocent little girl then step aside as Diana flew towards her and then slammed on the brakes, just so Shiva could get that momentary opening to try slice off Diana's head or something. As Joe Rogan likes to say, styles clashes can make fights really ugly or real interesting. I think Shiva could pose some unique problems for Diana as she is much more of a tactician in battle.

For me its a question of who can fight sneakier?

[hobomystical]

i love conversations like this because it allows me to exercise my nerdy nerd muscles. :biggrin:

1. it has never been clearly stated that diana's specific vulnerabilities are purposefully incorporated into her design. those who say it is are going by their own explanation/justification and present it as gospel, which it is not.

2. diana's durabilty puts her in a unique position. anything that applies high enough force over an extremely small surface area can pierce her skin. BOTH of these conditions have to be met, though, for her to be harmed. even if superman punches her and the force is extremely high, the surface area of his fist is not small enough. she will feel it, certainly, but most of it will be distributed and dispersed over her body and she will be able to endure it. she can't take an unending amount of blunt force trauma, but she can take an extreme amount. she might even bleed, but for the most part, she can endure it. even if superman poked her with his finger, the surface area of the finger is still greater than that of a bullet/spear/arrowhead. high enough force + extremely small surface area = potential harm.

3. diana has high durability against things that burn (unless magic based) and unfocused/incoherent energy. a nuke unleashes a great deal of energy and even though it's a very high concentration, it is still primarily unfocused/incoherent energy. a laser, however, can do damage to her depending on the strength of it. when she is blasted by a villain's energy beam, that energy is focused/coherent and can do harm depending on its strength. that's why diana was venus-distance from the sun in "sacrifice" and didn't get burned but was damaged by superman's heat vision. (for that matter, it would appear that diana has some durability that protects her from certain types of environmental harm such as cold and vacuum.)

4. diana's durability seems to also be based on her overall condition and if she has existing injuries or is exhausted she can be further harmed. it's why she started to burn in the nuclear reactor following her fight with superman in sacrifice.

5. in general, diana is highly resistance to magic-based threats, depending on what it is and how it's being used. god-made weapons can harm her but general magic blasts seem to be nothing more than regular energy blasts. likewise, magical fire can harm her. (we saw this when she held up the angelic chariot, and when she fought d'grth. she was also burned when she fought pele when pele intended for her to burn; at other points, she's standing in the lava with no ill effect.)

diana needs the bracelets because of points 1-5. perez has also included the idea that the bracelets provide limited protection even when not in use, as shown by himself, jimenez, and rucka (at least). the protective barrier she gets when crossing the bracelets only protects her from energy based threats but not material/physical threats. in a barrage of lasers and bullets, crossing the bracelets will only directly protect her from the lasers whether she deflects them or not. furthermore, crossing the bracelets and directly blocking something physical/material really does nothing, but she probably does it to give extra blocking strength: it's easier to deflect something major using both arms than using only one. the bracelets are especially good against godly weapons and energy as well: when pele tried to hit her with her fire-engulfed fist, diana blocked it with the bracelet and was unharmed. diana also used her bracelets for protection against the godly weapons the circle had.

unfortunately, this is not always clearly portrayed but that has been the main idea behind her invulnerability since her reboot under perez.

to add to this, in my opinion diana should not be harmed by a knife that is being wielded by an average person unless they can produce the same amount of force that an arrow can produce (at least). (personally, i don't think anything beneath the force of a bullet should be able to harm her, but that's me.)

[suedenim]

Ha, that's one of my pet peeves too. Back in the Silver Age, Superman was invulnerable, for all intents and purposes, and that word seemed to stick (and get applied to other characters), even once it was no longer literally true.

Like The Tick, the modern Superman is best described as "nigh-invulnerable." :)

But seriously, I think people tend to forget that Silver Age Superman was really, really invulnerable. Unless Kryptonite, magic, or a red sun were involved, you couldn't even muss up his hair, let alone knock him around or bruise him, as happens fairly often these days. (Note, incidentally, that in Gail's run, Wonder Woman gets beat up pretty badly by a Green Lantern on the Khund homeworld, no "piercing" weapons involved.)

[hobomystical]

But seriously, I think people tend to forget that Silver Age Superman was really, really invulnerable. Unless Kryptonite, magic, or a red sun were involved, you couldn't even muss up his hair, let alone knock him around or bruise him, as happens fairly often these days. (Note, incidentally, that in Gail's run, Wonder Woman gets beat up pretty badly by a Green Lantern on the Khund homeworld, no "piercing" weapons involved.)

extreme blunt force for an extended period of time. also, didn't the fists have spikes on them? diana is not totally invulnerable to blunt force but she can endure a lot of it depending on the strength and duration. still, she does have her limits. she also let him do it, so she might have lowered her durability (but i admit this is speculation on my part).

[hobomystical]

extreme blunt force for an extended period of time. also, didn't the fists have spikes on them? diana is not totally invulnerable to blunt force but she can endure a lot of it depending on the strength and duration. still, she does have her limits. she also let him do it, so she might have lowered her durability (but i admit this is speculation on my part).

bingo: i just looked at the issue and the part where diana really gets messed up is when she's hit by the spiked green energy fists.

[Superbeast]

For me its a question of who can fight sneakier?

Exactly. Diana is a sledgehammer, Shiva is a chisel. She might not get dramatic results like Diana's blows do, but she can chip away and hit weak points to break her opponent's down until she's got them in a position where she can really go to work. Diana's tough as nails but she's still got the same anatomy as any other woman and in turn most of the same weak points in terms of nervous and circulatory systems. Or maybe not and that's how she'd defeat Shiva: because she was made from clay she doesn't have the exact same anatomy as she was made without human flaws so she could play possum and let Shiva think she was winning and then bam!, Diana punches her through a plate glass window.

[MinaRho1]

Exactly. Diana is a sledgehammer, Shiva is a chisel. She might not get dramatic results like Diana's blows do, but she can chip away and hit weak points to break her opponent's down until she's got them in a position where she can really go to work. Diana's tough as nails but she's still got the same anatomy as any other woman and in turn most of the same weak points in terms of nervous and circulatory systems. Or maybe not and that's how she'd defeat Shiva: because she was made from clay she doesn't have the exact same anatomy as she was made without human flaws so she could play possum and let Shiva think she was winning and then bam!, Diana punches her through a plate glass window.

Yes, Diana can be cut and she can bleed. By the same token, she can bleed out.
I wouldn't say Diana is a sledgehammer. That's more Powergirl territory. But she does not play dirty. She can understand a sneaky person, but can't imagine herself in their shoes. There's something painfully direct about her fighting, and let's not take for granted the many sly and underhanded ways a person can be taken down.

She's not stupid by any means, but her approach can leave her open in a number of ways. Powers or not, it just takes one strike. Even a lucky hit could take her out-- which would probably make a criminal's career for generations to come.

[Superbeast]

Yes, Diana can be cut and she can bleed. By the same token, she can bleed out.
I wouldn't say Diana is a sledgehammer. That's more Powergirl territory. But she does not play dirty. She can understand a sneaky person, but can't imagine herself in their shoes. There's something painfully direct about her fighting, and let's not take for granted the many sly and underhanded ways a person can be taken down.

She's not stupid by any means, but her approach can leave her open in a number of ways. Powers or not, it just takes one strike. Even a lucky hit could take her out-- which would probably make a criminal's career for generations to come.

I always thought if push came to shove Diana wouldn't think twice about playing dirty. She fights with honour but if someone else starts playing dirty and shows no honour, I'd imagine Diana would also be willing to toss the rulebook out the window. If Shiva was playing dirty and being evasive, I can see Diana playing possum so Shiva gets close enough for Diana to lay her out.

Also for all intents and purposes Wonder Woman can fly through walls without coming to any harm, which I think qualifies her for heavy duty work like a Sledgehammer. PowerGirl is... Hell, she's more or less a wrecking ball.

[joshmc]

^ I agree with this, I don't think she'd for one second hesitate about getting her hands dirty if needed.

[MinaRho1]

I'm not saying she can't or hasn't "fought dirty". I'm saying its not as natural to her. Also, I think I spoke wrong and the term wasn't quite what I was going for.

Carry on!

[rab082154]

Diana can fight Dirty, and it comes easy. Of course she's honorable, but like when she boxed Kal in the ears with her bracelets, she will do what she has to do to win. She's at a level where most things can't get past her defenses, like with Kal, he will take the full blast standing there to measure you. When they have your measure, down you go.

[nightforce]

I have to laugh at times when I hear folks complaining boaut Wonder Woman and her "DURABILITY". (I rather use that term as well LoL) The character wasn't human born. She isn't a typical Amazon. She was formed out of Clay. So why should she be the same as the other Amazons? The GODS created her for Hippolyte but there were some strings attached to that.

So why is this even being questioned? I do not have a problem with her being extremely durable. I see it this way she use the bracelets as a means to hone in on her reflexes and an homage to her Amazon sisters who HAVE to use the bracelets because a bullet can kill them if not used.

Not to say Diana shouldn't have weaknesses either. There is Magicly enhanced weapons that could obviously kill her and of course beings like Superman could kill her as well. But human made weapons? Heh

[MinaRho1]

I have to laugh at times when I hear folks complaining boaut Wonder Woman and her "DURABILITY". (I rather use that term as well LoL) The character wasn't human born. She isn't a typical Amazon. She was formed out of Clay. So why should she be the same as the other Amazons? The GODS created her for Hippolyte but there were some strings attached to that.

So why is this even being questioned? I do not have a problem with her being extremely durable. I see it this way she use the bracelets as a means to hone in on her reflexes and an homage to her Amazon sisters who HAVE to use the bracelets because a bullet can kill them if not used.

Not to say Diana shouldn't have weaknesses either. There is Magicly enhanced weapons that could obviously kill her and of course beings like Superman could kill her as well. But human made weapons? Heh

I thought all the amazons were made from clay?

Has this been retconned?

[nightforce]

Actually, that's a good question. But I do not think all of the Amazons were made of clay. Just Diana.

In Perez' run they were reincarnated Women who were killed violently

[MinaRho1]

Actually, that's a good question. But I do not think all of the Amazons were made of clay. Just Diana.

In Perez' run they were reincarnated Women who were killed violently

I seem to remember a storyline in Byrne's run where some spell made all the amazons revert to clay?
Also there's this:
http://asylums.insanejournal.com/scans_daily/41708.html#cutid1 although what they are born from is not explicit. Perez may have been trying to evoke the old horse and seafoam myths

fitting because Hippoylta means stampede of horses? Other than that, I got nuthin'.

[buttler]

Actually, that's a good question. But I do not think all of the Amazons were made of clay. Just Diana.

In Perez' run they were reincarnated Women who were killed violently

Damn, now I have "Wondy Wondy Wondy, I made you out of clay" running through my head.

[brettc1]

Okay I am five pages late but I already pretty much know how things have gone, since I have seen such threads before. Mind you, they are always fun.

No, the blunt force theory does not pan out to explain bullets. Pressure is measured as a force to area ration. Piercing weapons have much higher pressure because they have the force concetrated in a small area.

However, mathematically this cannot work, because while Superman's fist exerts force over an area hundreds of times greater than a bullet, the force he applies is millions of times greater than that of said bullet. So mathematically speaking, Superman's fist exerts greater pressure than a bullet and should therefore go straight through Diana unless she blocked with her bracelets.

The increased density argument does not hold water mathematically either. Sure, you can say her skin must be more durable than normal in order for her strenght feats not to cause it to burst apart, but if her musculature were actually dense enough to provide the raw power neaded Diana would weigh so much she would sink through the crust of the planet [see above notes on pressure, force and area]

Has the aegis effect been mentioned? LOL

[Wonder Watcher]

Actually, that's a good question. But I do not think all of the Amazons were made of clay. Just Diana.

In Perez' run they were reincarnated Women who were killed violentlyNone of the Amazons are made of Clay and that includes Diana.

Yes, her mother formed a statue of Clay, but then her Gods transformed that representation into a living breathing person, complete with soul.

She's as close to being Clay as the average Christian woman in the DCU is to being a rib.

[MinaRho1]

None of the Amazons are made of Clay and that includes Diana.

Yes, her mother formed a statue of Clay, but then her Gods transformed that representation into a living breathing person, complete with soul.

She's as close to being Clay as the average Christian woman in the DCU is to being a rib.

That's an excellent point. I'm not questioning whether she's flesh and blood now. Obviously, she is. They all are, or there wouldn't be a sudden onslaught of amazon pregnancies. They're human now, but I was asking about their origin.

Also, magic makes little sense, or as much a sense as the writer wants it to. There was also that run in with Clayface, right? He found out that Diana was formed from earth and absorbed some of her power in one plotline. Again, magic will make as much or as little sense as the writer wants it to. I accept it, and I roll with it most of the time, but I still have some questions here n' there.

[hobomystical]

Okay I am five pages late but I already pretty much know how things have gone, since I have seen such threads before. Mind you, they are always fun.

No, the blunt force theory does not pan out to explain bullets. Pressure is measured as a force to area ration. Piercing weapons have much higher pressure because they have the force concetrated in a small area.

However, mathematically this cannot work, because while Superman's fist exerts force over an area hundreds of times greater than a bullet, the force he applies is millions of times greater than that of said bullet. So mathematically speaking, Superman's fist exerts greater pressure than a bullet and should therefore go straight through Diana unless she blocked with her bracelets.

The increased density argument does not hold water mathematically either. Sure, you can say her skin must be more durable than normal in order for her strenght feats not to cause it to burst apart, but if her musculature were actually dense enough to provide the raw power neaded Diana would weigh so much she would sink through the crust of the planet [see above notes on pressure, force and area]

Has the aegis effect been mentioned? LOL

first of all, if a LOT of things were supposed to work they way they work in comics, they wouldn't work. so we have to use certain principles and let imagination make up for the rest.:wink:

for diana, as i stated before brett (along with the aegis effect :tongue: ) :wink: , the force has to be high enough AND applied to an EXTREMELY SMALL surface area of her body. it doesn't matter if that force is superman force, if it's his fist then the surface area is still GREATER than what it needs to be for it to work. because the force is so high, though, diana can still be hurt (she can get bruised, she can bleed, etc) so it still has an effect on her at that high a force, but she can still withstand it because the surface area is still greater than what it needs to be. BOTH conditions have to be met in order for it to work. again, the equation is: high enough force + extremely small surface area = potential harm. even superman's finger has a surface area greater than a bullet. so, regardless of the force he applies to it, it will act as blunt force instead of piercing force.

again, differently worded: the amount of surface area is fixed. regardless of the amount of force, if the surface area does not meet this requirement, it is akin to blunt force. for example (totally arbitrary): anything greater than a 5mm surface area will produce blunt force affect, regardless of the amount of force applied to it.

but that's how magic (and the comic book world in general) is. it can be applied to certain principles and concepts and maybe even understood in general terms, but there is still a part of it that is unclear and undefinable. magic takes the principles of science and turns it on its head. and as long as things do follow certain guidelines and aren't just willy-nilly arbitrary, this is how magic should be.

the same holds true for her strength and density. for some reason or other, she can lift extremely heavy weights but not be so dense that she falls through the earth. again, scientific principles are at play to give us a basis, but there must be some suspension of disbelief to make it all work. magic allows her to do these things without the complications or impossibilities that would normally come into play. superman has the same thing going for him, the only thing is that it's 'scientifically' explainable. he has his 'tk forcefield' or somesuch that allows him to lift incredibly weights and not have them collapse under their own weight. (every time i see him or someone else lifting a train in the air - especially from the middle! - i wonder why the cars on the ends don't fall off! really, that just shouldn't happen! the same holds true for hoisting a suspension bridge, especially from the center underneath!) furthermore, he also isn't as dense (physically, that is) as he probably should be to be as strong as he is. there is something about his own powers that allows him to do these things without the complications and impossibilities that should come with it.

wonder woman can be explained by certain scientific principles but not fully by science itself. then again, that can be applied to just about everyone in the comic book world. :wink:

[Wonder Watcher]

That's an excellent point. I'm not questioning whether she's flesh and blood now. Obviously, she is. They all are, or there wouldn't be a sudden onslaught of amazon pregnancies. They're human now, but I was asking about their origin.

Also, magic makes little sense, or as much a sense as the writer wants it to. There was also that run in with Clayface, right? He found out that Diana was formed from earth and absorbed some of her power in one plotline. Again, magic will make as much or as little sense as the writer wants it to. I accept it, and I roll with it most of the time, but I still have some questions here n' there.You are absolutely right, in fact there have been plenty of 'back to Clay' stories over the years. Writers occasionally like to explore that side of her story.

The trouble is, each time it happens more people forget that she isn't actually just a Golem. See the comments on this board about her not having internal organs and other bits and pieces.

Clayface being able to absorb her 'magic clay' wasn't a particularly well thought through idea in my view. Byrne's idea of all of the Amazons turning back to Clay if the Gods went walkabout was little better.

The rest of the Amazons sprang to life directly from a lake / sea. I suppose if the 'made from clay' origin had to apply to all Amazons you could rationalize that in fact their bodies first formed from the clay at the bottom of the lake before their souls re-entered them.

I'm not totally against the idea but I probably won't be too upset if I never read another 'back to clay' storyline involving Diana.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

Seems the smart thing to do, if you're someone with strength of Superman for instance, would be just to poke her.

Poke Poke Poke Poke her Face?
sorry you set 'em up, I knock 'em down.

But WW does take her share of punishment, so I'm not too sure of her invulnerability.
even if she were completely invulnerable and you were shooting her and she managed to block every bullet with bracelets, would you maybe be a little concerned for your life at that point. I think that there is her intimidation factor.

[hobomystical]

That's an excellent point. I'm not questioning whether she's flesh and blood now. Obviously, she is. They all are, or there wouldn't be a sudden onslaught of amazon pregnancies. They're human now, but I was asking about their origin.

Also, magic makes little sense, or as much a sense as the writer wants it to. There was also that run in with Clayface, right? He found out that Diana was formed from earth and absorbed some of her power in one plotline. Again, magic will make as much or as little sense as the writer wants it to. I accept it, and I roll with it most of the time, but I still have some questions here n' there.

with all due respect, that was just crap writing and editing. it made no sense and has seemingly been disregarded. while i can understand the potential of the story, the truth is that diana is completely human and no longer has anything to do with her clay origin. not even magic can excuse that blunder.

[hobomystical]

Seems the smart thing to do, if you're someone with strength of Superman for instance, would be just to poke her.

the surface area of his finger isn't small enough to meet the piercing requirement, regardless of the superforce applied to it. once the surface area is above a certain limit, it's blunt force - that's just how diana's powers work. the surface area of a bullet or arrow seems to be within the necessary range (though personally i don't think a normal arrow should have enough force).

[MinaRho1]

the surface area of his finger isn't small enough to meet the piercing requirement, regardless of the superforce applied to it. once the surface area is above a certain limit, it's blunt force - that's just how diana's powers work. the surface area of a bullet or arrow seems to be within the necessary range (though personally i don't think a normal arrow should have enough force).

As gruesome as it is, I do think people like Superman could badly gouge Wonder Woman with their fingers. But it is gruesome so I refuse to think about it anymore.

[hobomystical]

As gruesome as it is, I do think people like Superman could badly gouge Wonder Woman with their fingers. But it is gruesome so I refuse to think about it anymore.

gouging is different than piercing, but yes, we should leave the conversation as it is. :smile:

[brettc1]

Hello hobo - I had no idea you were around :smile: Silly me.

In the final analysis Diana's invulnerability [or lack there of] does not make sense, but bullets and bracelets thing is too cool to get rid of :wink:

[nightforce]

None of the Amazons are made of Clay and that includes Diana.

Yes, her mother formed a statue of Clay, but then her Gods transformed that representation into a living breathing person, complete with soul.

She's as close to being Clay as the average Christian woman in the DCU is to being a rib.

True. But she wasn't born the conventional way either. Gods made her. The point is why her durability is always questioned is a mystery. She is not 100 percent born from a human.

[hobomystical]

Hello hobo - I had no idea you were around :smile: Silly me.

In the final analysis Diana's invulnerability [or lack there of] does not make sense, but bullets and bracelets thing is too cool to get rid of :wink:

you didn't just figure out that things really don't make sense in the comics realm, did you? :wink:

it doesn't have to make sense, but it is explainable - depending on how you look at it. :smile:

i'm not advocating for the eradication of bullets and bracelets (in fact, i do like it), but it wouldn't totally bother me if she became invulnerable to anything from bullets or less and only used the bracelets for energy attacks and to block things that really could/would (potentially) damage her (like superpowered punches). still, i like the current (seeming) explanation of how her durabilty works.

[brettc1]

you didn't just figure out that things really don't make sense in the comics realm, did you? :wink:

it doesn't have to make sense, but it is explainable - depending on how you look at it. :smile:

i'm not advocating for the eradication of bullets and bracelets (in fact, i do like it), but it wouldn't totally bother me if she became invulnerable to anything from bullets or less and only used the bracelets for energy attacks and to block things that really could/would (potentially) damage her (like superpowered punches). still, i like the current (seeming) explanation of how her durabilty works.

It doesn't really matter if bullets can hurt her - since the next time Darkseid wheels out the Omega Effect, ol' Supes is going to be screaming for Diana to save his Kryptonian butt again. :wink:

[Shatagni]

It doesn't really matter if bullets can hurt her - since the next time Darkseid wheels out the Omega Effect, ol' Supes is going to be screaming for Diana to save his Kryptonian butt again. :wink:

Come to think of it, can Diana's bracelets actually deflect the omega beams?

[brettc1]

Come to think of it, can Diana's bracelets actually deflect the omega beams?

Yes! :biggrin:

Happened in Superman/Batman. Ol Supes got an almighty b#tch-slapping from the big D and was about to get Omega-Effected into the next Crisis when Diana jumped in the way and blocked the beams.

[nepenthes]

I had a couple of general questions and figured they could go in this thread

Is Diana anatomically human, does she have organs and such? I can't find where this has been mentioned in the thread
I know the Amazons are the souls of murdered women, and Diana's own soul came from the 'Cavern of Souls'. but did that soul belong to anyone before it was given to her. Where did her soul come from?
How were the Amazons physically reborn? where did they come from if not clay
What are some occasions in which Diana has been near mortally wounded? From psychical injures I mean and not from mental or magic based impairments.
How did Hippolyta become the Queen of the Amazons. contest? was she the first of the Amazons?

[BnL]

Is Diana anatomically human, does she have organs and such? I can't find where this has been mentioned in the thread

Off the top of my head, I can recall instances of her or others mentioning her pulse and heartbeat. Superman performed CPR on her in "JLA: A League of One. I would assume that she has the anatomy of a human being.


I know the Amazons are the souls of murdered women, and Diana's own soul came from the 'Cavern of Souls'. but did that soul belong to anyone before it was given to her. Where did her soul come from?

In Hippolyta's first life, she was pregnant when she was murdered. The soul of the unborn child was reincarnated as Diana.


How were the Amazons physically reborn? where did they come from if not clay

The Amazons were formed from the clay at the bottom of a sea...I can't remember which at the moment. They took their first breath when they reached the surface.


What are some occasions in which Diana has been near mortally wounded? From psychical injures I mean and not from mental or magic based impairments.

She's been shot before. A speedster assassin named Mayfly shot her in the head, putting her in a coma. That's the only non-magic based one I can think of at the moment.


How did Hippolyta become the Queen of the Amazons. contest? was she the first of the Amazons?

When the Amazons were created from the clay of the sea bed, Hippolyta was the first to break the water's surface, which marked her destiny as queen of the Amazons.

[Wonder Watcher]

Off the top of my head, I can recall instances of her or others mentioning her pulse and heartbeat. Superman performed CPR on her in "JLA: A League of One. I would assume that she has the anatomy of a human being.We can see Superman feeling her pulse on another thread. When Devastation shot her the centaur field doctor, Chiron, remarked as follows when operating on her to remove the bullet "Hold still, You may have been clay but you insides are human enough now (issue 144)". Earlier still she was even subjected to a post-mortem when Neron killed her (issue 127). She's human.


She's been shot before. A speedster assassin named Mayfly shot her in the head, putting her in a coma. That's the only non-magic based one I can think of at the moment.Also,Devastation shot her with a normal handgun in issue 143. [/quote]


When the Amazons were created from the clay of the sea bed, Hippolyta was the first to break the water's surface, which marked her destiny as queen of the Amazons.Hopefully she was made Queen for a better reason than just being more naturally buoyant. :biggrin: