Does anyone else get tired of Lex Luthor?

[AdamYJ]

I'm just kind of sick of this guy.

I mean I understand he's a good villian and an important villian, but I think a little bit of Lex goes a long way? These days it seems like everything Superman related thing short of the cosmic stuff has to have Lex involved somehow. Is he really that important that he's got to be involved in everything?

[Captain Smith]

Lex and the Joker - they'll never get rid of them.

Supes should take Lex for a quiet vacation in the sun and Bats should bury Joker in the depths of the Bat Cave and be done with it.

Too much goody two shoes responses to mass murders.

[jgiannantoni05]

No, I'm not sick of Superman's greatest and most interesting villain, Lex Luthor.

And I disagree that Lex is overused. He's used as much as other archnemeses are. He's hardly been a part of the New Krypton storyline so far.

[The Batman]

Tired of Luthor? Nope. Not even a little bit.

[dupersuper]

I'm sure Superman is VERY tired of him... :biggrin:

[Karl O'Neill]

no!

I can only be truthfull here.

I heart this villain.

I love new takes on him and i love all his new schemes.

[AdamYJ]

Should have figured I'd be the only one.

Well, I get tired of him. I used to be okay with him. Not a huge fan, but not really disliking him either. However, I noticed that he was being used more and more outside of the core Superman books. I wasn't crazy about him getting involved in the Batman books ages ago with the whole "No Man's Land" thing (anyone else remember that?). However, I let that slide at the time. The straw that broke the camel's back with me was them making him the gene-donor to create Kon-El. That just felt like Luthor overstepping his bounds to me. Now, everytime I see Luthor I'm like "Eww, you again."

I also don't like that everyone seems to think that Luthor is the only decent villian that Superman has. Superman has lots of great villians beyond Lex Luthor.

[jgiannantoni05]

I also don't like that everyone seems to think that Luthor is the only decent villian that Superman has. Superman has lots of great villians beyond Lex Luthor.
You may be assuming too much. I don't think Lex is the only decent villain Superman has. Superman does have great villains besides Lex, such as Brainiac, Zod, Darkseid (when he was more a Superman villain), Metallo, etc, etc.

[AdamYJ]

You may be assuming too much. I don't think Lex is the only decent villain Superman has. Superman does have great villains besides Lex, such as Brainiac, Zod, Darkseid (when he was more a Superman villain), Metallo, etc, etc.

Well, a lot of people do think that way, I'm sure.

I really just don't think Lex is much fun to read about anymore.

[Slaughter]

I also don't like that everyone seems to think that Luthor is the only decent villian that Superman has. Superman has lots of great villians beyond Lex Luthor.

You may be assuming too much. I don't think Lex is the only decent villain Superman has. Superman does have great villains besides Lex, such as Brainiac, Zod, Darkseid (when he was more a Superman villain), Metallo, etc, etc.

He's not assuming. Most people only know Luthor (mostly because of Smallville), and also Zod, Ursa and Non because of the second film. Brian Synger himself only knows Luthor, aparently.

IMHO, we're need to see other Superman villains in the big screen. Brainiac, Metallo and Bizarro would be the best to adaptate to the movie screens.

[jgiannantoni05]

He's not assuming.
No, I think he may be assuming the situation is worse than it is. He can't read people's minds.

Most people only know Luthor (mostly because of Smallville), and also Zod, Ursa and Non because of the second film.
Last time I checked, Smallville had Brainiac and Zod and Doomsday and Toyman and etc on it. Plus Lois & Clark had other villains. STAS had other villains. So, if we are talking about the non-comic-reading public, they've been exposed to different villains. And they may not think Lex is the only decent villain Superman has.

[arp2008]

Yes. To call Lex Luther a hackneyed villian would be a gross and exagerrated understament to say the least! He's been in nearly every Superman film as the main antagonist, was a prominent character in the animated series', and in novels his presence is no less sufferable. This character needs a moratorium more than the Senty needs to be removed from Marvel comic books. It's very, very bad, and his overuse only stifles the breath of creativity, for if creators have Lex to constantly fall back on in every Superman story, why create anyone new? This isn't to say its entirely the creators' fault, though. As long as movies and comics featuring Lex continue to flourish, don't expect him to go anywhere. If he sells, and he does, he's here to stay. When the majority finally get tired of him, perhaps sales or whatever determinant DC uses to gage these things will become apparent. Until, expect the same old "Lex used krytonite to weaken superman than causes some mass destruction type scheme Superman will have to clean up while Lex get away relatively unharmed" plot to be used 'till you can't stand it anymore. It never fails.

[ryerye17]

I get where you're coming from. But no I like Lex Luthor.

[Spiffy]

I'm only sick of badly done Lex.

Well done Lex, as rare as he is these days, could be in every issue and it would be fine.

Lex is complex. Reducing him to a bunch of cartoonish whining kills the character. He needs motivations and relationships every bit as complex as Clark's to "work" ideally.

[Crimson Knightman]

You're not the only one tired of Lex Luthor. Lex is constantly shoehorned in the movies, television series, animated series and comics and of course the general excuse is that all of that is due to Luthor being recognized as Superman's arch nemesis. But I generally believe that the arbitrary need to showcase Luthor causes the Superman rogue's gallery to be eclipsed thus making the bulk of them completely irrelevant. Luthor doesn't need the consistent exposure because he is already over with the mainstream media but there are many other classic Superman villains that could use that type of attention in order to strengthen the Superman rogue's gallery as a whole.

Unfortunately, that particular scenario hardly ever play out. For an example, Brainiac is a classic Superman villain, in fact he is considered a heavy hitter in the Superman rogue's gallery but only recently has he made anything remotely close to an impact in years, his appearances has been far and few between, relatively sporadic. In fact for some time, Brainiac was very hit or miss. Again, I'm well aware of who is Superman's arch nemesis but that still doesn't mean all of the focus has to be on him considering that the character is already secured. No, the reason why resonates around the fact that a lot of individuals whether that be Superman editorial or producers writing a script for a Superman project are basically over reliant with Luthor. For a Superman villain, Luthor has always been the "safe bet" which explains why his gravitas is often emphasized repeatedly as oppose to other Superman villains whose gravitas is displayed periodically by comparison. Luthor has been the atlas of the Superman rogue's gallery for a very long time and my point is, it doesn't have to be.

[Kai "the spy"]

I'm only sick of badly done Lex.

Well done Lex, as rare as he is these days, could be in every issue and it would be fine.

Lex is complex. Reducing him to a bunch of cartoonish whining kills the character. He needs motivations and relationships every bit as complex as Clark's to "work" ideally.

Word.

The Lex from "Birthright". The Lex from that Azzerallo/Bermejo mini series. The Lex from the later "Smallville" seasons. Never get tired of 'em.

Hackman's Lex, on the other hand ...

[AdamYJ]

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone in this regard.

I think one of the problems is that I don't quite get what Lex's deal is.

Okay, so he's a genius and a secular humanist. And he does evil things because he hates Superman and thinks he's holding the Earth back and . . . . that's it? :confused:

That's the reason he's evil? Because he hates Superman?

It seems kind of flimsy for someone who's supposed to be "The World's Greatest Super-Villian" or whatever his honorary title is.

Granted there are some great villians (or "nemeses") who thrive on hatred. Venom. Great when used sparingly. Fatality. Great when used in the right capacity. Professor Zoom. Awesome when used right and used sparingly. See what I'm going for here. They're great when used sparingly.

Now, granted, there may be more to Luthor's evil, but everytime I see him, he seems to be going on his usual snitfit about how Superman's an alien who's holding everyone back. What I think would be great is if they got rid of his whole "I hate Superman" crutch and showed him as being evil just because he's evil. I mean, he can have all the justifications in the world for what he's doing, but the anti-Superman whining really ought to go. In fact, we have this big ol' Multiverse now, why don't we see a world where he really did get rid of Superman and show just how far his evil can go if Superman isn't there to hold it in check.

[Hyperzoanoid]

Yeah, his origin/motivations are kind of silly but that goes for a lot of comic book characters.

As for Lex, I appreciate him as a villain but in regards to all Superman media I do think he is overused. While Superman's Rogue Gallery isn't actually that big to begin with, there still are other villains that deserve a place in the limelight as well.

[Hyperzoanoid]

Double Post

[AdamYJ]

While Superman's Rogue Gallery isn't actually that big to begin with, there still are other villains that deserve a place in the limelight as well.

Are you kidding me?

Superman's Rogues Gallery is HUGE.

The man has enemies going back to the late '30s. The thing is that there are just so many villians that people don't want to use over ones that people do.

I mean, I could list names of such characters: The Archer, The Puzzler, Funny-Face, Sir Gauntlet, The Snake, Johnny Aesop, The Insect Master, etc. Heck, that's just the tip of the iceberg. You like Kryptonian villians? The Silver Age Phantom Zone practically had dozens of 'em. Let's not forget the newer guys who've been created and practically forgotten. Bloodsport, Rampage, etc.

If you're the type of fan who loves digging through lists of obscure characters, the Superman and Wonder Woman RGs are what you want to check out. They're both practically goldmines of obscure villiany.

[protonik]

I'm just kind of sick of this guy.

I mean I understand he's a good villian and an important villian, but I think a little bit of Lex goes a long way? These days it seems like everything Superman related thing short of the cosmic stuff has to have Lex involved somehow. Is he really that important that he's got to be involved in everything?

Man, be glad you weren't reading it following the Byrne revamp. When Byrne left it became a weekly Lex fest when he was reborn as Lex Luthor II after he died of Kryptonite poisoning. He was integral to every story and was also very present in the stories preceding his "death" as well. I always thought it was funny that he was elected President in spite of being an Australian citizen in the clone body. *snicker*

Yeah, the years following though he was waaaaaaay overplayed. Nowadays I think he is used about right. Back then and up until Public Enemies, he was more of a supporting cast member, an antagonistic cast member, but a cast member nonetheless.

[Hyperzoanoid]

Are you kidding me?

Superman's Rogues Gallery is HUGE.

The man has enemies going back to the late '30s. The thing is that there are just so many villians that people don't want to use over ones that people do.

I mean, I could list names of such characters: The Archer, The Puzzler, Funny-Face, Sir Gauntlet, The Snake, Johnny Aesop, The Insect Master, etc. Heck, that's just the tip of the iceberg. You like Kryptonian villians? The Silver Age Phantom Zone practically had dozens of 'em. Let's not forget the newer guys who've been created and practically forgotten. Bloodsport, Rampage, etc.

If you're the type of fan who loves digging through lists of obscure characters, the Superman and Wonder Woman RGs are what you want to check out. They're both practically goldmines of obscure villiany.

Well, then you and I aren't using the same definition of the term. When I'm thinking of a rogue gallery I'm thinking of villains who are as associated and of relatively equal status as Batman's renowned villains. Spiderman is a good example as well in this as someone who has a large rogue gallery; in a lesser manner you could include the Flash as well.

Superman's prominent villains are, by that definition, not that large in number. He has some classic antagonists but nowhere the number of Batman. The vast majority is forgettable, even to most Superman readers.

[AdamYJ]

Well, then you and I aren't using the same definition of the term. When I'm thinking of a rogue gallery I'm thinking of villains who are as associated and of relatively equal status as Batman's renowned villains. Spiderman is a good example as well in this as someone who has a large rogue gallery; in a lesser manner you could include the Flash as well.

Superman's prominent villains are, by that definition, not that large in number. He has some classic antagonists but nowhere the number of Batman. The vast majority is forgettable, even to most Superman readers.

Well, it really depends on how picky you're willing to be. In many cases, a villian isn't "classic" or "renowned" until someone chooses to make them so. Many people wouldn't have considered the Riddler a major Batman foe until the '60s TV show. Characters like the Mad Hatter were right on the cusp until the Dini/Timm cartoon. Heck, the definition of who is in a Rogues Gallery changes with the era. In the late '50s, a collection of Superman's worst enemies would have consisted of: Luthor, Braniac, Cosmic King, Lightning Lord, Saturn Queen and maybe some semi-random alien. By the same token, in the '70s it would be Luthor, Braniac, The Kryptonite Man, the '70s Toyman, the '70s Metallo, Terra-Man and Amalak.

Me, I'm not picky. When I think of a "Rogues Gallery", I think of a collection of super-villians, both famous and obscure, that are associated with a certain superhero. Then again, I like a lot of the villians that others would regard as scrubs. Whether it's the Gibbon in Spidey's, Clue-Master in Bats' or Riot in Superman's, I just love digging up those minor players. I do draw the line at some of the Flash's lesser foes (like Kilg%re). Also, there are some characters who do have small RGs, like the Atom (Chronos, Floronic Man, Bug-Eyed Bandit and maybe a couple other guys. The rest of the time he fought gangsters).

[Solex]

Word.

The Lex from "Birthright". The Lex from that Azzerallo/Bermejo mini series. The Lex from the later "Smallville" seasons. Never get tired of 'em.

Not to forget Kevin Spacey's version from Superman Returns: I thought he had both equal parts humor and menace, especially during that sequence in the artificial landmass with the Kryptonite inside it.:smile:

Hackman's Lex, on the other hand ...

Oh boy, we could go on about his Lex, but we shouldn't.:rolleyes:

Just once, I'd love to see Clancy Brown as Lex in a live action movie.

[froinlaven]

If I see Lex Luthor in one more Superman movie I just may throw up.

[Munkiman]

I like Lex a lot, but I agree they should space out the Lex stories a little with other villains, like Brainiac or Bizarro.

[Schluffy]

Im tired of Movie Luthor who is so obsesed with Land I think he might want to do it on a drunken lonley night.

Luthors a strange character. He is of course a villan but he is able to hold the role of supporting character waiting to pounce too (Think Harry/Norman Ossborn in Spidy, therer not evil all the time but there in the books constantly as just Harry & Norman). Prime exaple of this is Smallville, hes not the main character hes just there sewing the seeds for his own climax.

At the minute lex's role is still in the supporting character catagory. He hasnt sprung anything big against superman and im sure when he does next its going to be something to do with braniac.

Oh and I have to say I loved him in Last Son

[Artificial idiot]

Now, granted, there may be more to Luthor's evil, but everytime I see him, he seems to be going on his usual snitfit about how Superman's an alien who's holding everyone back. What I think would be great is if they got rid of his whole "I hate Superman" crutch and showed him as being evil just because he's evil. I mean, he can have all the justifications in the world for what he's doing, but the anti-Superman whining really ought to go. In fact, we have this big ol' Multiverse now, why don't we see a world where he really did get rid of Superman and show just how far his evil can go if Superman isn't there to hold it in check.
Evil because he's evil? Isn't that pretty much what he is anyway? I always saw the whole 'Superman is ruining everything...' mentality as one big excuse to justify everything he does. Maybe it's because nothing else in life provides him with an adequate challenge, maybe it's because it gives him a prime justification to unleash his nastier side but either way I don't think it's the be all and end all of every single thing Luthor does. I think it's just something he's convinced himself of to justify the fact that deep down... He's just one sick puppy. :biggrin:

[AdamYJ]

Evil because he's evil? Isn't that pretty much what he is anyway? I always saw the whole 'Superman is ruining everything...' mentality as one big excuse to justify everything he does. Maybe it's because nothing else in life provides him with an adequate challenge, maybe it's because it gives him a prime justification to unleash his nastier side but either way I don't think it's the be all and end all of every single thing Luthor does. I think it's just something he's convinced himself of to justify the fact that deep down... He's just one sick puppy. :biggrin:

Well, I'm pretty sure it is a big excuse. I'm just tired of hearing it everytime he opens his mouth.

[Mat001]

Lex is egotistical. Hence he brags about his reasoning. He's jealous of Superman more than anything. Lex wants to be the center of attention and when he isn't, he feels slighted. It's obvious with his becoming the savior of Gotham, the savior of Metropolis from Brainiac 13, the savior against the Sun Eater, his tenure as President and the beginnings of the Everyman Project. That's why Clark called him out on his crap in Superman #653, when he said that Lex had a year without Superman in his presence and all he did was plot his revenge. A whole year to do what he claimed that he always wanted to do and instead, he wasted it on his own ego.

[Slaughter]

I like Luthor, but I think they wasted a lot of his potential. President Lex was the best idea that ever got out of Loeb's head, followed by him finding out the secret identity. That was all set and ready for a definitive showdown after all those years of Luthor constantly evading prison. That was Luthor's highest point, the time when he was the leader of the world's strongest nation, the world's most powerful man, and knew the identity of his foe. Like we say in Brazil, "He had the knife and cheese on his hands." But what could've been a Superman classic was wasted by the identity wipe and the lame way Luthor was deposed. Someday I'll write a alternate version of how that really happened. Someday.[

QUOTE]That's why Clark called him out on his crap in Superman #653, when he said that Lex had a year without Superman in his presence and all he did was plot his revenge. A whole year to do what he claimed that he always wanted to do and instead, he wasted it on his own ego.[/QUOTE]

"Where's the Cancer Cure, Lex?" :biggrin: :biggrin:

[Will.S]

Movie Lex, definitely.

Comic Lex Luthor, not yet because he hasnt quite hit that overexposed threshold yet although he was at that point during the President Luthor stuff as well as the Infinite Crisis/OYL stages.

[Artificial idiot]

"Where's the Cancer Cure, Lex?" :biggrin: :biggrin:

*snicker* :D

Yeah, it's what makes him such a great foil for Superman. Superman is everything right about humanity, whereas Lex is all of it's lesser qualities thrown into one dome headed body. They're interactions are usually so great because of it.

[AdamYJ]

That's why Clark called him out on his crap in Superman #653, when he said that Lex had a year without Superman in his presence and all he did was plot his revenge. A whole year to do what he claimed that he always wanted to do and instead, he wasted it on his own ego

"Where's the Cancer Cure, Lex?" :biggrin: :biggrin:

Next time he goes off on his "Superman is holding us back tirade", someone should just tell him to shut up. Metallo or someone. Some other villian who is tough enough to just call a spade a spade.

"It's that damn alien. Everyone thinks he's some sort of god and . . . "

"Oh, just shut up, Lex."

"What?!"

"You heard me. You keep going off on these stupid rants about how you could make the world a better place if Superman wasn't around, but you just do bupkiss. Let's face it, Lex. You're no humanitarian. You're a dirty, rotten SOB like the rest of us and no amount of excuses is going to change that."

[3D Master]

Yeah, I've gotten rather tired of him quite a while ago.

Maybe because the first version I ever encountered of him, was the idiot slapstick version in Superman the Movie, but I just never really cared about him.

[spidarwin]

Everyone gets tired of Lex Luthor.

That's why they have other antagonists.

Writers run out of ideas, and artists want to draw something more
interesting and challenging.

And the readers. Oh, let's not forget about them. They stop buying
that stuff, too.

[ffaristocrat]

I do like that General Lane is treating him as just another tool in his anti-Kryptonian toolbox rather than as some trump card. In a lot of ways, it's an accurate assessment of Luthor's value to Lane's mission... but it's also a dangerous underestimation of the danger of treating Luthor that way.

[brundlefly]

I mean I understand he's a good villian and an important villian, but I think a little bit of Lex goes a long way? These days it seems like everything Superman related thing short of the cosmic stuff has to have Lex involved somehow. Is he really that important that he's got to be involved in everything?

While I do not agree personally (as Lex is my favorite comics villain), I can see why you'd have that perspective. Lex can often seem overexposed at times for the exact same reasons that the Joker often does. For every one great, well-written take on either Lex or Joker, there are five more instances of them being shoe-horned into some hackwork story or crossover event where the writer just wants to name-check all the "Big Gun" villains and then sticks them in (generally writing them poorly in the process). This makes it seem like Lex or Joker are always involved in everything. This just devalues both characters and causes readers to get sick of them (as you've noted) so they should be used sparingly and wisely. There's no reason Lex should ever end up in drek like Salvation Run (or other such mediocre supervillain dog-piles) or shoved into a story for no reason other than the reflexive "well, it's got Superman in it, so we gotta have Lex!" That's how people end up "getting tired" of characters.

I'm only sick of badly done Lex.

Well done Lex, as rare as he is these days, could be in every issue and it would be fine.

Lex is complex. Reducing him to a bunch of cartoonish whining kills the character. He needs motivations and relationships every bit as complex as Clark's to "work" ideally.

100% agreed. There should be a freaking rule, imo, against using Lex in a Superman story unless a writer shows that he or she "gets" the character. If you just need a one-dimensional "mad scientist" antagonist for your story, DC is utterly rife with those, so use one of them instead (Thaddeus Kilgrave or some of the lesser Oolong Island residents, for example), since they rarely get any playing time as it is.

[dushuai]

super man will get rid of lex once day,I feel annoying about lex,he is making the incredible idea to beat our hero,but that will be punished cause our hero is justice of honor.

[Slaughter]

I do like that General Lane is treating him as just another tool in his anti-Kryptonian toolbox rather than as some trump card. In a lot of ways, it's an accurate assessment of Luthor's value to Lane's mission... but it's also a dangerous underestimation of the danger of treating Luthor that way.

He's not giving him enough armed guard. Someone like Luthor should be monitored 24-hours per day by Human Defense Corps platoon.

What IS Lane's endgame, anyway? His objective is to destroy New Krypton. How is he going to do that? We already saw Lane's gun and some bullets, but not the entire magazine. So far Project 7734 has:

The Human Defense Corps (veterans from alien wars, now with new guns)
Squad K
Project Alien Farm
*Codename: Assassin (telepath, assassin and telekinetic)
*Codename: Metallo (green kryptonite)
*Codename: Reactron (gold kryptonite)
*Mirabai (magic)
*Atlas (magic-enhanced strength)
*Captain Atom (Described as a "World-Breaker", recently broke off his programming)
*Doomsday
*Superwoman
*Lex Luthor

So far, their crew is fairly strong, stronger than the current JLA. They're going to need a lot more than that to fight against New Krypton. Parasite would be of great help, for example.

[Maestro]

if you're a real Superman fan, there's no way you can be tired of Lex. that's like being tired of Superman

the best Lex was the Justice League cartoon version

[Shaka]

if you're a real Superman fan, there's no way you can be tired of Lex. that's like being tired of Superman

the best Lex was the Justice League cartoon version

Whole heartedly agree. He was much more complex and thought out than many Leaguers. How can you not enjoy a guy who goes from hijacking a league defense satellite to destroy a small town to having a demon chick girlfriend?

[Crimson Knightman]

if you're a real Superman fan, there's no way you can be tired of Lex. that's like being tired of Superman

the best Lex was the Justice League cartoon version

All it takes to be a "real" Superman fan is to be a fan of Superman, period.

[MythicBrawn]

Lex is similar to J Jonah Jameson in the Spidey books. Fortunately, someone has finally called JJJ out on his nonsense and, hopefully, his idiotic vendetta will end or be more overt to the point of being nonexistent. Now, if someone could do the same to Lex and make it stick. Clark did call him out, but Lex regards him with disdain, so it really doesn't count. That's for the comics. As far as the movies go, the studios need to consider the money given to Spacey as a sunk cost, go with another villain, and NEVER show Lex again.

[Spiffy]

Lex is similar to J Jonah Jameson in the Spidey books. Fortunately, someone has finally called JJJ out on his nonsense and, hopefully, his idiotic vendetta will end or be more overt to the point of being nonexistent.
Er. As far as I know, only in the non-default version--the Ultimate version of Spider-Man.

Or rather, the ill of his ways has been pointed out to the "main" JJJ hundred of times over the years. Its just that only in the Ultimate-verse has he been shown as doing something about it.

[dupersuper]

No, I think he may be assuming the situation is worse than it is. He can't read people's minds.


Last time I checked, Smallville had Brainiac and Zod and Doomsday and Toyman and etc on it. Plus Lois & Clark had other villains. STAS had other villains. So, if we are talking about the non-comic-reading public, they've been exposed to different villains. And they may not think Lex is the only decent villain Superman has.

Indeed...
Smallville: Lex
Mercy
Luthorcorp/33.1
Brainiac
Zod
Faora
Phantom Zone villains
Doomsday
Toyman
Intergang
Parasite
Metallo (soon)
Livewire
Neutron
Bizarro
Plastique/Volcana?
Vandal Savage/Mr. Z?
some one named Mxyzptlk, but not
Summerholt and others made for the show

Lois and Clark: Lex
Luthorcorp
Phantom Zone villains (more or less)
Metallo
Toyman
Prankster
Bizarro
Mxyzptlk
Baron Samedi
Toastmasters
Intergang
Tempus and others made for the show

Superman Adventures/JLU: Lex
Mercy (made for the show)
Luthorcorp
Brainiac
Bizarro
Mxyzptlk
Metallo
Parasite
Toyman
Intergang
Phantom Zone villains
Darkseid (et al)
Mongul/Warworld
Bloodsport
Silver Banshee
Doomsday
Titano
Solomon Grundy
Kenny Braverman (future Conduit)
Livewire (made for the show)
Luminous (made for the show)
Volcana (made for the show)
others made for the show

In addition to Lex, Metallo Bizarro Toyman Phantom Zoners and Intergang all show up in all 3 of his most recent long running shows, and Mercy, Livewire, Brainiac, Doomsday, Parasite and Mxyzptlk show up in 2 out of 3. Even the movies have Zod Ursa and Non (more Zoners), Nuclear Man, Pryors SuperComputer and the rich brother and sister who purloin it. In other very recent cartoons; Legion of Superheroes cartoon had Imperiex and Terra Man, his appearance in The Batman had Mercy and Metallo as well as Lex. I haven't seen a lot of the old Superboy series from the late 80's/early 90's (I'll get the dvd's 1 of these days...), but I remember them having at least Bizarro and an evil genius played by Bill Mumy in addition to Lex, and the 88 cartoon had Titano right in the opening credits. Superfriends had Lex, Brainiac, Zod, Zoners, Solomon Grundy, Darkseid (et al), Toyman and Bizarro. Freakin' Riot showed up in the Sperman Returns video game (as Cyborg Superman and Doomsday of course showed up in the Death/return video game years ago, and Metallo, Darkseid, Livewire, Parasite, Mercy and Intergang were in the Superman Adventures video games. plus Mongul and Mongal were in a recent The Brave and the Bold episode, even if Superman wasn't in it). Bizarro even got a Seinfeld subplot based around him. Any one that is going by mass media that still only knows Lex isn't paying attention.

[dupersuper]

I always thought it was funny that he was elected President in spite of being an Australian citizen in the clone body. *snicker*


He wasn't; the whole clone thing was explained away in his trial during the electro-Supes days. It was public knowledge that he was Lex the 1st in a new body.

[dupersuper]

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone in this regard.

I think one of the problems is that I don't quite get what Lex's deal is.

Okay, so he's a genius and a secular humanist. And he does evil things because he hates Superman and thinks he's holding the Earth back and . . . . that's it? :confused:

That's the reason he's evil? Because he hates Superman?

It seems kind of flimsy for someone who's supposed to be "The World's Greatest Super-Villian" or whatever his honorary title is.

Granted there are some great villians (or "nemeses") who thrive on hatred. Venom. Great when used sparingly. Fatality. Great when used in the right capacity. Professor Zoom. Awesome when used right and used sparingly. See what I'm going for here. They're great when used sparingly.

Now, granted, there may be more to Luthor's evil, but everytime I see him, he seems to be going on his usual snitfit about how Superman's an alien who's holding everyone back. What I think would be great is if they got rid of his whole "I hate Superman" crutch and showed him as being evil just because he's evil. I mean, he can have all the justifications in the world for what he's doing, but the anti-Superman whining really ought to go. In fact, we have this big ol' Multiverse now, why don't we see a world where he really did get rid of Superman and show just how far his evil can go if Superman isn't there to hold it in check.

In the Byrne days he was clearly already amonster when Superman showed up (Unauthorized Biography, World of Metropolis, Superman 10 back-up), he's just been focused on Superman since then.

Are you kidding me?

Superman's Rogues Gallery is HUGE.

The man has enemies going back to the late '30s. The thing is that there are just so many villians that people don't want to use over ones that people do.

I mean, I could list names of such characters: The Archer, The Puzzler, Funny-Face, Sir Gauntlet, The Snake, Johnny Aesop, The Insect Master, etc. Heck, that's just the tip of the iceberg. You like Kryptonian villians? The Silver Age Phantom Zone practically had dozens of 'em. Let's not forget the newer guys who've been created and practically forgotten. Bloodsport, Rampage, etc.

If you're the type of fan who loves digging through lists of obscure characters, the Superman and Wonder Woman RGs are what you want to check out. They're both practically goldmines of obscure villiany.

qft; see above post

Well, then you and I aren't using the same definition of the term. When I'm thinking of a rogue gallery I'm thinking of villains who are as associated and of relatively equal status as Batman's renowned villains. Spiderman is a good example as well in this as someone who has a large rogue gallery; in a lesser manner you could include the Flash as well.

Superman's prominent villains are, by that definition, not that large in number. He has some classic antagonists but nowhere the number of Batman. The vast majority is forgettable, even to most Superman readers.

Again, see my earlier post.

[MythicBrawn]

Er. As far as I know, only in the non-default version--the Ultimate version of Spider-Man.

Or rather, the ill of his ways has been pointed out to the "main" JJJ hundred of times over the years. Its just that only in the Ultimate-verse has he been shown as doing something about it.

Read ASM #604. JJJ, as the mayor of NY, gets called out on his behavior by his subordinate. Ultimately, because of the subordinate's actions, and the men in the Spider-Slayer unit requesting transfers, JJJ's behavior is going to have to change. It's a little early to see what the effects of issue 604 will be, but it was good to see someone really putting him in his place.

[Mat001]

He wasn't; the whole clone thing was explained away in his trial during the electro-Supes days. It was public knowledge that he was Lex the 1st in a new body.

Actually, if I recall, it was Lex claimed that he was sick. He was subsequently detained by Sidney Harpersen and a clone of Lex went around claiming to be the real Lex, but was passing himself off as his son. Lex claimed that after he got away, he spent time rehabilitating and recovering from his illness. He never once claimed that he had his brain removed and a clone body grown around it, as per his defense.

This was covered in Adventures Of Superman #550.

[dupersuper]

Actually, if I recall, it was Lex claimed that he was sick. He was subsequently detained by Sidney Harpersen and a clone of Lex went around claiming to be the real Lex, but was passing himself off as his son. Lex claimed that after he got away, he spent time rehabilitating and recovering from his illness. He never once claimed that he had his brain removed and a clone body grown around it, as per his defense.

This was covered in Adventures Of Superman #550.

My mistake; I'm usually on here while at work and don't have my books handy. Either way, though, the Australian citizenship wouldn't be an issue

[Kaos]

He's over used in the movies, but that's about it!

[Damiean Dark]

Superman does have a large rogues gallery but despite this the feeling that none of them can truly hurt him if he really really wanted to win will always be something that limits them as plausable villians.

Darkseid and Doomsday where possibly the last villains who where proper villains (not ill defined ones who can go either way like Myxipic) and had you thinking they could match Superman. But of course Darksied became a whipping boy for any old hero and Doomsday became a pansy.

[AdamYJ]

Superman does have a large rogues gallery but despite this the feeling that none of them can truly hurt him if he really really wanted to win will always be something that limits them as plausable villians.

Darkseid and Doomsday where possibly the last villains who where proper villains (not ill defined ones who can go either way like Myxipic) and had you thinking they could match Superman. But of course Darksied became a whipping boy for any old hero and Doomsday became a pansy.

Well, Darkseid's not really a Superman villian anyway. He's a Fourth World villian who got changed into a DC Universe villian.

At this point I don't really think about whether or not they could hurt Superman. They just have to be able to hurt everyone else.

[lead sharp]

I got a little tired of him being the big reveal, he even crept into the end of No Mans Land, a Bat mega crossover, which come to think of it was a relief from Ra's Al Ghul.

But I to see where you're coming from.

[Alex L]

I like Luthor, but I think they wasted a lot of his potential. President Lex was the best idea that ever got out of Loeb's head, followed by him finding out the secret identity. That was all set and ready for a definitive showdown after all those years of Luthor constantly evading prison. That was Luthor's highest point, the time when he was the leader of the world's strongest nation, the world's most powerful man, and knew the identity of his foe. Like we say in Brazil, "He had the knife and cheese on his hands." But what could've been a Superman classic was wasted by the identity wipe and the lame way Luthor was deposed. Someday I'll write a alternate version of how that really happened. Someday.[


+1

President Lex was awesome.

It was a great change, as -- aside from the end of his term in Superman/Batman -- I don't remember him being particularly antagonistic to Clark.

Take Lex, put him in a role moderately away from Superman and in a role we're certainly not used to seeing him in, and let's find out what happens when his motivation isn't "Blaaah, I hate that Kryptonian!"

For most of the time, I seem to recall him actually doing the job of a President.