Talent You Want At DC And Talent You Want To Leave DC? [Archive]

SMARTASS8

09-09-2009, 05:15 PM

If you had the power at DC to make anything happen, what writers or artists would you like to see move to DC, leave DC, and NEVER, EVER be allowed to work at DC?

Writers Who Should Move To DC

1) Ed Brubaker
2) Dan Slott
3) Christos Gage(does work at Wildstorm but hasn't done anything at DC since his story for Legends Of The Dark Knight)

Artists Who Should Move To DC

1) Ed McGuinness
2) Steve Epting
3) Stephan Casselli
4) Frank Cho
5) Tom Grummett

Writers Who Should Leave DC

1) Grant Morrison(I used to really like him but he's just not doing it for me anymore)
2) James Robinson(I never read his Starman, but after reading his current DC work and watching his movie, Comic Book Villains, I won't bother)

Artists Who Should Leave DC

1) Howard Porter(never a big fan but I thought his work on Magog was bad)
2) Patrick Gleason(I find his art very distracting on Green Lantern Corp)

People You Never Want At DC

1) Brian Michael Bendis(tons of talking heads sharing 2 distinct personalities)
2) Jeph Loeb(even his best work is poor imho)
3) John Cassaday(I know people love him but I think his characters look deformed)
4) Steve McNiven(he draws everyone like they're posing for a MySpace picture)

FanboyStranger

09-09-2009, 08:20 PM

I'd love Brubaker, Sean Phillips, and Michael Lark back at DC and hooked into the Vertigo Crime line. (For that matter, I wouldn't mind Bendis getting a shot at a Vertigo Crime OGN.) Kieran Gillan would be perfect for a Books of Magic relaunch, particularly if they paired him with Phil Jimenez, another Marvel exclusive. Andy Diggle coming back to Hellblazer would be incredible, considering his run was the best the title's been in about a decade, and if they could lure Leo Manco back with him, that would be even sweeter. Jason Aaron getting his hands on Sgt. Rock or Etrigan the Demon would be something I'd love to see. DnA taking over Justice League and bringing Chris Weston with them. And I know I'll catch flack for it, but I'd love to see Matt Fraction on Legion.

Sending people the other way? Well, Kurt Busiek back to Marvel to bring back The Avengers, especially if Perez wanted another crack at it. I'm not sure if he has anything on his plate from DC right now, but I've always thought that Rick Veitch would be great on Thor.

meek?

09-10-2009, 06:24 AM

Writer Mark Waid on SUPERMAN.

The End.

No, I have more. :biggrin:

I would lo'e for artist Pasqual Ferry to return to the DCU. ADAM STRANGE: PLANET HEIST was a gorgeous, gorgeous book and made me start caring for a character that I would otherwise not have if he hadn't been involved in the project. If he was headlining the sci-fi or space genre types of DC books, I would get into that part of the DCU.

Artist Adrian Alphona would be an excellent... beyond excellent... addition to the DC team. I would love his take and revitalization of any of the books that features teens or young adults like TEEN TITANS or TITANS.

And for selfish reasons, I would be thrilled if Terry Dodson, Carlos Pacheco, Adi Granov, Mike Choi, Salvador Larroca, Matt Fraction, Warren Ellis, and Peter David were swooped from Marvel.

Peace.

Bevbos

09-10-2009, 07:45 AM

If Bendis, Johns, Morrison, Brubaker, Ellis, Ennis, Millar, Tomasi, and Rucka, were all at one company - perhaps joined by David Hine and RAS - that would be what's known in internet lingo as an "epic win".

CYOTI

09-10-2009, 07:50 AM

Paul Levitz needs to leave along with Judd Winnick, Bill Willingham and Sean McKeever

Darrell D.

09-10-2009, 07:52 AM

Paul Levitz needs to leave along with Judd Winnick, Bill Willingham and Sean McKeever

Ok, I'll bite. Why Levitz?

CYOTI

09-10-2009, 08:00 AM

His gentlemen ghost story in jsa was to put it kindly very dated.

joao_miranda

09-10-2009, 08:20 AM

His gentlemen ghost story in jsa was to put it kindly very dated.

So, you judge more then 30 years by one single story? This is why no one cares what guys on the internet thinks.

4thHorseman

09-10-2009, 08:26 AM

People to leave:
Jim Starlin
Rinato Guedes (sp?)
James Robinson

People to DC:
Jason Aaron
Frank Cho
Dan Slott

And damnit, I want to see Bolland do more than just covers.

SMARTASS8

09-10-2009, 08:51 AM

Paul Levitz needs to leave along with Judd Winnick, Bill Willingham and Sean McKeever

Isn't Sean McKeever already leaving DC to go back to Marvel? If so, it's not soon enough.

JurassicParkIsAnAwesomeMovie

09-10-2009, 02:41 PM

Come to DC
Ed Brubaker/Michael Lark-Batman
JMS/Oliver Coipel-Superman
Frank Cho-Put him on something where he can draw his nicely figured women

Leave DC
Patrick Gleason (The guy is never consistant in his quality, but he does get his stuff in on time)
Frank Miller (What does he do besides All-Star Batman, anyways?

smartass8, i like your ass pick...i'm from chicago as well...what part are you from?

CYOTI

09-10-2009, 05:16 PM

So, you judge more then 30 years by one single story? This is why no one cares what guys on the internet thinks. Yes god forbid that people have opinions. Would you prefer that we all worship St. Paul at the altar of DC instead?

Ilash

09-10-2009, 05:30 PM

Writers to come to DC:

Mark Waid
Peter David
Ed Brubaker
Jonathan Hickman
Paul Cornell

Artists to come to DC:

Actually, I agree with the OP on this one. Except I don't know who Casselli is. Instead I'll say Stuart Immonen.

People who should leave DC:

Oh, I don't know. If I don't like someone's work I just won't read it. Whatever.

People who shouldn't come to DC:

BENDIS! (Please note, I'm a huge Bendis fan but, aside for Ultimate Spidey, I wish all his work was creator-owned. He's so much better at that stuff, it's not even funny.)

EDIT: I would also add Jason Aaron to writers who I want at DC but he does Vertigo so I can't complain.

CBikle

09-10-2009, 05:40 PM

Overall, I'm pretty happy with DC as it is of this moment.

However, it'd be cool to see Peter David on a DC book (esp. Aquaman).

There are a lot of writers whose work I don't care for, but I don't begrudge them working for DC, except when they wind up on a book I'm reading.

Also, pretty happy with the DC artists, except for Scott Kolins; I can see that the guy is good, I just don't happen to like his style.

[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite

09-10-2009, 05:47 PM

However, it'd be cool to see Peter David on a DC book (esp. Aquaman).

Not sure if we'll be seeing this if Didio's still EIC.

Mister Blisterfists

09-10-2009, 07:29 PM

People who should leave DC:

Alex Ross. And never come back.

Talisman

09-10-2009, 07:46 PM

So, you judge more then 30 years by one single story? This is why no one cares what guys on the internet thinks.

There's a reason he's being relieved of his duties...Sometimes people just have hit their prime and don't know when it's time to move on. Look at Claremont's body of work lately.

kalorama

09-10-2009, 09:21 PM

There's a reason he's being relieved of his duties...

And that reason has absolutely nothing to do with his abilities as a writer. First, by all reports he he's resigning his executive post after several months of openly contemplating front office retirement so he could return to writing, so it's not like they just bull-rushed him out the door. He was headed in that direction to begin with. And even if that weren't the case, if his writing were held in such low regard that it was a factor in him being removed as president, it seems unlikely that the same people who who are "relieving" him of his executive duties would then turn around and hire him as a writer.

SMARTASS8

09-10-2009, 10:37 PM

Leave DC
Frank Miller (What does he do besides All-Star Batman, anyways?

Good call on Frank Miller! He's either crazy, lost his mojo, or just grown lazy. Whatever the answer is, I never want to see him direct a movie(Spirit...shudder), draw a comic, or write anything ever again.

smartass8, i like your ass pick...i'm from chicago as well...what part are you from?

Western Suburbs about 20 minutes outside the city.

Greg Anderson

09-10-2009, 10:42 PM

DC needs to give David Hine his own Batman ongoing.

SMARTASS8

09-10-2009, 10:43 PM

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;9603432']Not sure if we'll be seeing this if Didio's still EIC.

While I don't agree with Didio on everything, I do if he doesn't want Aquaman to resemble a one-armed Namor clone. I read Peter David's entire Aquaman run but I just didn't like it. Making Dolphin a member of the Aquaman "family" is about the only thing I liked.

Doug Side

09-10-2009, 11:26 PM

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;9603432']Not sure if we'll be seeing this if Didio's still EIC.

This is really the only problem I have with Didio. Peter David was great talent, and Didio's personal grudge with him is not only stoping PAD from writing at DC, but stoping Young Justice from ever hitting the trades, despite the fan acclaim for the series.

Writers to come to DC:
Peter David

Editors to stop letting personal opinions affect their business decisions:
Dan Didio

numberONE

09-10-2009, 11:29 PM

His gentlemen ghost story in jsa was to put it kindly very dated.

Never read any Paul Levitz (I don't think), but how do you mean by "dated"?

Babylon23

09-11-2009, 12:14 AM

Marvel writers I'd like to see at DC:

Peter David
Dan Slott
Mark Waid
Roger Stern
Jeff Parker
Paul Cornell

Marvel artists I'd like to see at DC:

John Romita Jr.
Alan Davis
John Cassidy
Michael Lark
Sean Phillips
Pascual Ferry
Bill Sienkiewicz
Phil Jiminez
Leonard Kirk
Paul Pelettier

DC writers I wish would leave:

Kevin Smith

DC artists I wish would leave:

Jim Lee
Ed Benes
Guillem March

Marvel creators I don't want to see at DC:

Brian Bendis
Frank Cho
Greg Land
David Finch
Jeph Leob

kalorama

09-11-2009, 10:58 AM

What's this personal beef Didio has with David?

Adset

09-11-2009, 12:13 PM

I need to read James Robinson's current stuff to see why he's so hated. The Golden Age trumps Kingdom Come, IMO, for DC's best mini of the 90s. Starman was brilliant. Hell, Leave it to Chance was awesome, too. And I really liked the JSA Returns event...

People who don't want to read his old stuff based on his JLA work really should. The Golden Age and Starman are nearly flawless.

daveageallen

09-11-2009, 01:16 PM

good luck getting dan slott. he has said in a few interviews that he loves marvel and thinks DC at least used to be every character with only one silver age personality res used time and time again.

i want mike allred to draw for DC. his style would go great with the flash or green lantern, something retro looking.

FanboyStranger

09-11-2009, 01:23 PM

i want mike allred to draw for DC. his style would go great with the flash or green lantern, something retro looking.

Allred has a new Vertigo ongoing entitled I, Zombie coming out in a few months.

daveageallen

09-11-2009, 01:25 PM

Allred has a new Vertigo ongoing entitled I, Zombie coming out in a few months.

i know! i hope its great!

FanboyStranger

09-11-2009, 01:28 PM

i know! i hope its great!

I have high hopes myself. It's seems just quirky enough to work in the flood of zombie-themed comics, and I always love Allred's art.

SMARTASS8

09-11-2009, 01:36 PM

Allred has a new Vertigo ongoing entitled I, Zombie coming out in a few months.

I might have to relax my Vertigo ban to get that since I love Allred so much.

Splatt

09-11-2009, 01:40 PM

I'd like to see David Aja do some work for DC.

Karl O'Neill

09-11-2009, 01:44 PM

Wants:
Jason aaron
Matt fraction
Ed brubaker--To come back if you know what I mean
Mike Carey--This guy actually had a run mapped out for firestorm but was scapped at the last minute.

Kindly leave please:
Andrew Kriesberg

Some of the other tv writers are okay but i am suspicious of the new writers coming to dc.

Gitaroo_Dude

09-11-2009, 01:49 PM

I might have to relax my Vertigo ban to get that since I love Allred so much.

What kind of DC fan boycotts Vertigo? It's their strongest imprint; the best in comics too I'd say.

K-DoG7p7

09-11-2009, 02:03 PM

I would say Andrew Kreiberg to leave DC.. but calling him a talent is so far off its scary

SMARTASS8

09-11-2009, 02:07 PM

What kind of DC fan boycotts Vertigo? It's their strongest imprint; the best in comics too I'd say.

Why would a DCU fan need to read Vertigo? It's like apples and chainsaws. First of all, I'm not a fan of Karen Berger or her hypocritical stance that DCU characters can be used in her books(ala Madame Xanadu) but once she gets her claws in them, DC can't use their own characters. We'll also have to agree to disagree about the quality of Vertigo books. I find a lot of them to be poorly written or overly pretentious.

CYOTI

09-11-2009, 04:48 PM

What kind of DC fan boycotts Vertigo?
Probably a very narrow minded one.

pryde15

09-11-2009, 05:19 PM

Come to DC:
- Mike Carey
- Chris Bachalo
- Phil Jimeniez
- Jeff Parker
- Paul Cornell
- Alan Davis
- John Cassaday

Never Ever EVER be allowed to write a story for DC
-Matt Fraction (just read his Uncanny, and you will understand)
- Brian Michael Bendis

Fatguy

09-11-2009, 05:42 PM

Come here!

Jason Aaron
Jonathan Hickman
CHRIS BACHALO

Go away?

Not a lot of guys I can think of.

Sean McKeever
Judd Winnick

I guess.

Desaad

09-11-2009, 07:04 PM

Come to DC....

Matt Fraction
John Hickman
Fred Va Lente
Warren Ellis

John Cassady
Olivier Coipel
Steve McNiven

Leave DC

Judd Winick
Sean Mckeever
Kreisenberg

My main problem is that my favorite Marvel creators aren't being put on my favorite Marvel properties. I'd love love love to see a Hickman Legion of Superheroes, a Fraction JLA, an Ellis Flash and a Lente Green Arrow.

SMARTASS8

09-12-2009, 02:04 AM

Probably a very narrow minded one.

No, I'd say narrow minded is someone making comments about a person he, thankfully, doesn't even know.

I can't believe how bad CBR is in terms of trolls and aggressive posters. I used to think Newsarama was bad but this place is getting much worse.

superchick

09-12-2009, 10:34 AM

As long as Greg Land keeps his distance.
Gillem March can go to marvel.

gustopher

09-12-2009, 10:47 PM

Come to DC:
Bendis -- his work on Daredevil, Ult Spidey, and his creator owned works are all very good. I'd like to see him do Green Lantern Corps.

Greg Pak -- based on the strengths of Planet Hulk and Incredible Hercules, I would love to see him work with some characters that I care about and see if he can breath life into them and keep them in character. Perhaps Superman, or the Legion of Superheroes.

Simon Furman -- the poor man has written about Transformers for nearly his entire career. He's no worse than some of the forgettable writers at DC, he should get a sympathy series.

Stan Lee -- his writing has always been a bit hackneyed, and he hasn't done much lately, but I think it would be a hoot to have him working with either Batman or Superman, in continuity, subject to all the restrictions of a normal writer working in continuity. No reimagining the characters, just pick up with them as they are and go with it. His writing would be so utterly jarring and weird in the DCU, and that could be a very, very good thing.

Go to Marvel:
Geoff Johns -- don't get me wrong, I like most of what he does, and love a lot of what he does, but I would really like to see him pulled entirely out of his element. And his element appears to be characters with an extensive backstory in the DCU. I want to see him work on the Punisher and possibly a new volume of Howard The Duck.

Gail Simone -- I love her work. I love what she is doing at DC with Wonder Woman and the Secret Six, and she's another writer I would like to see put somewhere that plays against her strengths -- characterization and character driven plots. I'd love to see her on one of the more plot driven Marvel books, dealing with incessant crossovers and editorial mandates that require retooling plans every two issues. Avengers, perhaps. I would also enjoy her on JLA for that matter.

Raharu

09-12-2009, 10:57 PM

No, I'd say narrow minded is someone making comments about a person he, thankfully, doesn't even know.

I can't believe how bad CBR is in terms of trolls and aggressive posters. I used to think Newsarama was bad but this place is getting much worse.

I don't see how it was really a troll or aggressive post. Putting any kind of "ban" on any company and/or imprint as a whole is a very narrow minded thing to do. It's one thing to just not be interested in something, but to put a "ban" on something, especially the reasons you gave, narrow minded sounds pretty accurate

Fatguy

09-12-2009, 10:59 PM

I don't see how it was really a troll or aggressive post. Putting any kind of "ban" on any company and/or imprint as a whole is a very narrow minded thing to do. It's one thing to just not be interested in something, but to put a "ban" on something, especially the reasons you gave, narrow minded sounds pretty accurate

It was a figure of speech. I doubt he was picketing the line.

Really, its not all that difficult to wrap one's mind around somebody not being interested in a mature readers imprint.

Raharu

09-12-2009, 11:04 PM

Well, yeah if that's the case and he's just not interested in anything that Vertigo ever puts out, whatever, to each their own, but ban implies that you're going out of your way to not pick up the line despite interest.

Gitaroo_Dude

09-13-2009, 12:41 AM

It was a figure of speech. I doubt he was picketing the line.

Really, its not all that difficult to wrap one's mind around somebody not being interested in a mature readers imprint.

If that it was it, MAYBE. But ignoring a line because they won't let DC mess with their characters?

Sir, I say LOLWUT.

noh-varr

09-13-2009, 12:48 AM

Why would a DCU fan need to read Vertigo? It's like apples and chainsaws. First of all, I'm not a fan of Karen Berger or her hypocritical stance that DCU characters can be used in her books(ala Madame Xanadu) but once she gets her claws in them, DC can't use their own characters. We'll also have to agree to disagree about the quality of Vertigo books. I find a lot of them to be poorly written or overly pretentious.

I've never heard that it was Karen's decree for such a thing. If she was so gun ho about this then we never would have seen Dream in JLA or Kid Eternity in Teen Titans. I believe the reason why there is such a double standard (which I agree is silly) is that if they are being promoted in a mature audience book then the worry from someone is that putting the character in an all ages book would lead to some poor kid picking up a mature title and that would be CHAOS! Cats would marry dogs and everything! lol.

Which titles have you tried out of curiosity? Vertigo may have some bad writing, but I don't get the pretentious part... ok the Sandman fans really did hit the pretentious bit during the height of the book, but you can't say Preacher fans ever were.

As for who I want where. Well Judd Winick never writing another comic in any universe would be nice, and any writer who can't take the time to at least get the basic characterization of their protagonist or any other major character should also be gone, like the guy who screwed around with Cassandra Cain. I'm not huge on following characters or anything, but if you are doing an in continuity book, you have to do a little bit of research and make sure the character acts like well the character!

DeadXMan

09-13-2009, 12:52 AM

There's a reason he's being relieved of his duties...Sometimes people just have hit their prime and don't know when it's time to move on. Look at Claremont's body of work lately.

It's kicking the tripe Fraction passes off as a story ass up and down the hallway.

DeadXMan

09-13-2009, 01:06 AM

you it's interesting people want so many writers that were at DC that were under appreciated( Bru and Slott comes to mind), and are now the golden boys and/or rising stars in Marvel.

SMARTASS8

09-13-2009, 01:22 AM

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SMARTASS8

09-13-2009, 01:27 AM

I've never heard that it was Karen's decree for such a thing. If she was so gun ho about this then we never would have seen Dream in JLA or Kid Eternity in Teen Titans. I believe the reason why there is such a double standard (which I agree is silly) is that if they are being promoted in a mature audience book then the worry from someone is that putting the character in an all ages book would lead to some poor kid picking up a mature title and that would be CHAOS! Cats would marry dogs and everything! lol.

Unless he was using her as an excuse to shut a fan up, I've "heard" Didio say at several cons when asked about Swamp Thing, Constantine, or Sandman being featured in the DCU(at least according to the online transcriptions), that it was either out of his hands or that the fan should ask Vertigo. That made it seem like they don't want their line tarnished by superhero stuff. Considering all the violence, gore, and sexuality going on in the DCU these days, a bare breast without a strategically placed arm or a few 4-letter words without %$*! is all that separates the 2 lines.

Which titles have you tried out of curiosity? Vertigo may have some bad writing, but I don't get the pretentious part... ok the Sandman fans really did hit the pretentious bit during the height of the book, but you can't say Preacher fans ever were.

I read Preacher but thought it petered out towards the end. I feel like I don't need to read another Hellblazer story ever again since none of the stories really feel fresh anymore. I grew bored with Fables. I may be in the minority, but I hate Azzarello. Sandman is the height of pretentiousness. The last time Swamp Thing was written well was when it still fell under the DC imprint. Grant Morrison's Vertigo books cross the line of "too weird" for me. I thought Y was OK but vastly overrated. I didn't like Army@Love(felt it was wittier than it actually was), Bite Club, Deadman, The Exterminators, or Testament(pretentious again). I'm just not a big fan of the line. Not liking a lot of what I've read before and my frustration over DC's inability to let even a "big name" writer like JMS use characters Vertigo now lays claim to is plenty of reason for me to not keep giving their books a look.

And all this BS that I'm narrow minded came right after I said I was planning on getting one of their books featuring Allred. If I was that narrow minded, I wouldn't even consider that. BTW, who cares what my reasons are for reading or not reading something. I hate Bendis' writing but I don't go to the Marvel forums and give his fans a hard time for calling what he does "great writing".

Darrell D.

09-13-2009, 05:03 AM

Unless he was using her as an excuse to shut a fan up, I've "heard" Didio say at several cons when asked about Swamp Thing, Constantine, or Sandman being featured in the DCU(at least according to the online transcriptions), that it was either out of his hands or that the fan should ask Vertigo. That made it seem like they don't want their line tarnished by superhero stuff. Considering all the violence, gore, and sexuality going on in the DCU these days, a bare breast without a strategically placed arm or a few 4-letter words without %$*! is all that separates the 2 lines.
Well, no, not really. Cursing and violence are not indications of maturity. The DCU using those things is really a sign of the opposite, actually. And using Constantine in the DCU would be incredibly stupid, unless he was being used to point out the ridiculousness of superheroes.

I hate Bendis' writing but I don't go to the Marvel forums and give his fans a hard time for calling what he does "great writing".

Man, the martyr thing is getting fairly old.

Raharu

09-13-2009, 10:26 AM

I read Preacher but thought it petered out towards the end. I feel like I don't need to read another Hellblazer story ever again since none of the stories really feel fresh anymore. I grew bored with Fables. I may be in the minority, but I hate Azzarello. Sandman is the height of pretentiousness. The last time Swamp Thing was written well was when it still fell under the DC imprint. Grant Morrison's Vertigo books cross the line of "too weird" for me. I thought Y was OK but vastly overrated. I didn't like Army@Love(felt it was wittier than it actually was), Bite Club, Deadman, The Exterminators, or Testament(pretentious again). I'm just not a big fan of the line. Not liking a lot of what I've read before and my frustration over DC's inability to let even a "big name" writer like JMS use characters Vertigo now lays claim to is plenty of reason for me to not keep giving their books a look.

*Sigh*

You must feel really bad about yourself if you think books are looking down at you.

And all this BS that I'm narrow minded came right after I said I was planning on getting one of their books featuring Allred. If I was that narrow minded, I wouldn't even consider that. BTW, who cares what my reasons are for reading or not reading something. I hate Bendis' writing but I don't go to the Marvel forums and give his fans a hard time for calling what he does "great writing".

No, I pretty sure it came mostly because you said you had a "ban" on Vertigo. A ban usually implies that you go out of your way to avoid an imprint/company despite interests. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's a very narrow minded thing to do in just about any case.

EZMOHR

09-13-2009, 10:39 AM

Gots to say, I would love to see a Michael Chabon Superman story. Also, Matt Fraction proves with each new Uncanny issue, that he gets HUGE super powered teams....I say give him JLA, and let it ride.

Raharu

09-13-2009, 10:42 AM

Also, Matt Fraction proves with each new Uncanny issue, that he gets HUGE super powered teams....I say give him JLA, and let it ride.

He certainly couldn't do any worse than what we've had for the last few years

Artificial idiot

09-13-2009, 10:43 AM

And using Constantine in the DCU would be incredibly stupid, unless he was being used to point out the ridiculousness of superheroes.
Okay, this I don't really get. Constantine was originally created for the DCU, to knock shoulders with all the spandex crowd... Hell, Alan Moore originally intended for him to be at the epicentre of a company wide crossover. So I don't see how him being in that universe would be incredibly stupid. Hell, he'd probably breathe a whole breath of life into the magical side of the DC Universe. I'd love to see him interact with his spiritual successor Detective Chimp if nothing else. :)

Darrell D.

09-13-2009, 11:12 AM

Okay, this I don't really get. Constantine was originally created for the DCU, to knock shoulders with all the spandex crowd... Hell, Alan Moore originally intended for him to be at the epicentre of a company wide crossover. So I don't see how him being in that universe would be incredibly stupid. Hell, he'd probably breathe a whole breath of life into the magical side of the DC Universe. I'd love to see him interact with his spiritual successor Detective Chimp if nothing else. :)

Moore used Constantine as the everyman character, and his interactions with the DCU Superhero element under Moore was fairly sparse. A one pager with Batman, and he was in the background on the Monitor's satellite. Not a lot.

If used for the occasional cameo in the mystical side of the DCU, that would probably be cool. But there is the fear that it would eventually turn into some sort of 'Constantine meets Batman!' kind of fan fiction that no one really needs.

Will.S

09-13-2009, 11:26 AM

I'd like for Geoff Johns to leave just to see what the hell DC would do without him, it seems like every time he leaves a book DC brings him back to "fix" the book and they can't keep doing that. They have to bring in good writers to pick up the ball and fully back them with top notch good artistic talent.

I'd also like to see James Robinson leave since his hit and miss ratio is heavily leaning towards the misses. I'd like to see Kurt Busiek leave as well, not because I dislike him or his DC work or anything but I don't know if DC is really utilizing him well enough these days. Perhaps it's because he's taking a break after Trinity and his stuff is only seen in Wednesday Comics at the moment which makes it seem like he's not doing a whole lot but perhaps DC is planning to give him something big.

I also dislike that DC never fully backed up his Aquaman changes as I thought the new Aquaman book was very good and a very viable way to freshen up the Aquaman character but apparently not.

Free-Man

09-13-2009, 11:44 AM

Afua Richardson, the artist of Genius:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vUf3lU-cXVA/Sl87m2qGfPI/AAAAAAAAA24/di3fTHHKLzM/s400/Picture+2.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vUf3lU-cXVA/RqDbN7kcOUI/AAAAAAAAAHI/Iue4qcncqgc/s400/MISTY6.jpg

Jim Mahfood:
http://www.karmaincorporated.com/images/mahfood_karma.jpg

And Ming Doyle:
http://mark-sweeney.com/blog/Images/Blog-July27-08/waitress06.jpg

Darrell D.

09-13-2009, 11:52 AM

Will.S

09-13-2009, 12:05 PM

Those are some very good suggestions. Off the beaten path, and would be interesting.
I think they're pretty good as well although they lean more on the quirky side and I'd like to see more sequential art from Afua Richardson.

Free-Man

09-13-2009, 12:30 PM

Those are some very good suggestions. Off the beaten path, and would be interesting.

Thanks.

[QUOTE] I think they're pretty good as well although they lean more on the quirky side and I'd like to see more sequential art from Afua Richardson.[/IMG]

I see what you mean about the quirkiness, but I think there is more than enough room at DC and Marvel for more of a quirky, indie style. This is just my opinion, but I feel that too many of DC's top artists use the same Ivan Reiss-esque style.

Gitaroo_Dude

09-13-2009, 01:08 PM

Thanks.

[QUOTE] I think they're pretty good as well although they lean more on the quirky side and I'd like to see more sequential art from Afua Richardson.[/IMG]

I see what you mean about the quirkiness, but I think there is more than enough room at DC and Marvel for more of a quirky, indie style. This is just my opinion, but I feel that too many of DC's top artists use the same Ivan Reiss-esque style.

Total agreement here.

I don't think anyone should be opposed to "quirky" art on superhero comics when "conventional" seems to mean stale, posed drawings that lacks flair, creativity, and style.

CBikle

09-13-2009, 01:20 PM

His gentlemen ghost story in jsa was to put it kindly very dated.

I liked that story; in particular, I liked the conversation between the Earth 2 Superman and E2 Batman, where you see how they subtly differ from their Earth 1/New Earth counterparts.

Will.S

09-13-2009, 01:30 PM

I see what you mean about the quirkiness, but I think there is more than enough room at DC and Marvel for more of a quirky, indie style. This is just my opinion, but I feel that too many of DC's top artists use the same Ivan Reiss-esque style.

Total agreement here.

I don't think anyone should be opposed to "quirky" art on superhero comics when "conventional" seems to mean stale, posed drawings that lacks flair, creativity, and style.
I don't mind quirky art myself and would prefer something different than to something incredible generic or "house style".

I'm just saying that an artist like Jim Mahfood is someone I could see work on say Doom Patrol, Adam Strange, or an anthology title rather than Superman or Batman.

SMARTASS8

09-13-2009, 01:35 PM

*Sigh*

You must feel really bad about yourself if you think books are looking down at you.

No, I don't feel the books are looking down on me. I feel the writers think they're creating something more important than they actually are. I don't think there's been one Vertigo writer who has come even close to touching the "genious" of Alan Moore and even he was only writing about dark magic, superheroes, and fictional characters from other people's novels.

No, I pretty sure it came mostly because you said you had a "ban" on Vertigo. A ban usually implies that you go out of your way to avoid an imprint/company despite interests. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that's a very narrow minded thing to do in just about any case.

Again, how am I closed minded when I've read a lot of their books over the years, for the most part didn't like them, and get frustrated seeing DC characters in their books when my 1 small wish for a Swamp Thing book published by DC will never happen(at least under the current regime)? Just the fact that I'd given them a chance and hundreds of my dollars shows that I didn't just shake my head no because superheroes weren't involved. No, I'm closed minded because Vertigo is felt by some to be the best line of books out there and only a nut wouldn't want to try and read as much of their books as they could.

Free-Man

09-13-2009, 01:46 PM

SMARTASS8

09-13-2009, 01:56 PM

I will agree that I've noticed a certain amount of pretention among people I know who only read Vertigo, but it doesn't bother me enough to make me skip out on the whole line. The fact that Black Orchid isn't free to use in DC bothers me as well, but Vertigo puts out some GREAT stuff.

Well, if I follow through on my "threat" to buy Allred's new book(like I said in my initial post on the subject), then all of this back and forth sniping about my close mindedness will have been for naught.

Darrell D.

09-13-2009, 02:05 PM

[QUOTE=jamesfreeman;9617826]Thanks.

Total agreement here.

I don't think anyone should be opposed to "quirky" art on superhero comics when "conventional" seems to mean stale, posed drawings that lacks flair, creativity, and style.
I'm reminded of World's Funnest, with all of the awesome artists.
I would love to see Jaime Hernandez on Marvel Family, even if for a one-shot.

Free-Man

09-13-2009, 02:17 PM

[QUOTE=Gitaroo_Dude;9618028]
I'm reminded of World's Funnest, with all of the awesome artists.
I would love to see Jaime Hernandez on Marvel Family, even if for a one-shot.

I loved World's Funnest! It was such a tease that the Hernandez Bros never really did much for DC after that.

Marvel recently did an anthology that was basically Wedensday Comics but with an all-indie line-up of creators. I'd really love to see some of that wacky art and out of the box storytelling in more of the "mainstream" books.

Now I'm certainly not implying that indie artists and writers are inherently more talented or better story tellers, but there are a lot of really fantastic men and women working on these really small books, and I know they would kick ass if Marvel or DC ever gave them a chance.

SMARTASS8

09-13-2009, 02:19 PM

I see what you mean about the quirkiness, but I think there is more than enough room at DC and Marvel for more of a quirky, indie style. This is just my opinion, but I feel that too many of DC's top artists use the same Ivan Reiss-esque style.

Did you read...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518NC9QGAZL._SS500_.jpg

or

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6197ZMDX4VL._SS500_.jpg

Raharu

09-13-2009, 02:36 PM

No, I don't feel the books are looking down on me. I feel the writers think they're creating something more important than they actually are. I don't think there's been one Vertigo writer who has come even close to touching the "genious" of Alan Moore and even he was only writing about dark magic, superheroes, and fictional characters from other people's novels.

Then you think the writers are pretentious because it's impossible for a work of entertainment/art to be. It shouldn't really matter what the writer's views are, it's totally irrelevant to the quality of the work. Sounds that's more your perception over anything else. Do you even have any basis for this claim?

Again, how am I closed minded when I've read a lot of their books over the years, for the most part didn't like them, and get frustrated seeing DC characters in their books when my 1 small wish for a Swamp Thing book published by DC will never happen(at least under the current regime)? Just the fact that I'd given them a chance and hundreds of my dollars shows that I didn't just shake my head no because superheroes weren't involved. No, I'm closed minded because Vertigo is felt by some to be the best line of books out there and only a nut wouldn't want to try and read as much of their books as they could.

So you don't see how putting a ban on an entire line of comics can't be seen as narrow minded? It's like putting a ban on all Marvel comics because you don't like the direction of Spider-Man or the current treatment of the Avengers. You may not pick those up, but yes, I'd say it's a very narrow minded attitude to go out of your way to ignore everything else from them, and that's what a ban traditionally implies. You're trying to make this something it's not, no one was attacking you over the fact that you don't want to read Vertigo, but putting a ban on anything almost always implies close-mindness in some way.

You reacted pretty negatively to what Raul said, but honestly, that does sound very much like a martyr defense. Only you, the lone Vertigo-less climber, against us, the monster persecutors who lash out against anyone who wouldn't dare read Vertigo. Yeah, that's totally what happened. Sounds more like you either misused a phrase and just went with it instead of correcting what you meant or you just don't really have a solid defense for your "ban" and got mad that people were questioning it.

Free-Man

09-13-2009, 02:37 PM

Did you read...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518NC9QGAZL._SS500_.jpg

or

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/6197ZMDX4VL._SS500_.jpg

Yep, but only the top one.

CBikle

09-13-2009, 08:35 PM

I've never heard that it was Karen's decree for such a thing. If she was so gun ho about this then we never would have seen Dream in JLA or Kid Eternity in Teen Titans.

Well, Dream being in JLA was Gaiman doing a favor for his pal, Grant Morrison - Maybe Berger was OK with it, but even if she wasn't, both those guys are/were heavyweights in the field with a lot of clout.

As for Kid E, DC got him back after the Vertigo title crashed and burned (the pedophilia angle to the stories was a bad call). Not so sure if this is an official policy or not or just an informal understanding that characters revert back to the DCU after a period of being inert or if someone has a proposal for the character in the DCU.

Free-Man

09-13-2009, 08:47 PM

Well, Dream being in JLA was Gaiman doing a favor for his pal, Grant Morrison - Maybe Berger was OK with it, but even if she wasn't, both those guys are/were heavyweights in the field with a lot of clout.

As for Kid E, DC got him back after the Vertigo title crashed and burned (the pedophilia angle to the stories was a bad call). Not so sure if this is an official policy or not or just an informal understanding that characters revert back to the DCU after a period of being inert or if someone has a proposal for the character in the DCU.

Also, Kid Eternty got back int the DCU around 2003 if I remember correctly. The "wall" between DC and Vertigo's characters didn't get really bad until relatively recently.

CBikle

09-13-2009, 09:27 PM

Again, how am I closed minded when I've read a lot of their books over the years, for the most part didn't like them, and get frustrated seeing DC characters in their books when my 1 small wish for a Swamp Thing book published by DC will never happen(at least under the current regime)?

It is kind of a catch-22; Swamp Thing is very much a niche character (like Deadman) and his occasional guest-spots in other DCU titles introduced fans to him who otherwise might not know about the character ( I first found out about Swamp Thing in a Brave & The Bold comic where he teamed up with Batman).

It's possible that the DCU-Vertigo separation was a deal between Levitz and Berger, which may not exist anymore with Levitz's retirement.

Also, Swamp Thing's 40th anniversary is coming up, so you'd imagine that there'd be some sort of plan for the character at that point.

CBikle

09-13-2009, 09:37 PM

Also, Kid Eternty got back int the DCU around 2003 if I remember correctly. The "wall" between DC and Vertigo's characters didn't get really bad until relatively recently.

Yeah, it became noticeable to me when the entire premise of Books Of Magic completely changed; it was supposed to explore magic in the DCU through the eyes of Tim Hunter who was sort of being groomed as DC/Vertigo's answer to Dr. Strange. Right after the first arc, it became anon-DCU title).

Towards the end of it's run, Sandman Mystery Theater started having regular guest-appearances by characters like Hour Man, Blackhawk, Mr. America and I believe it even had a crossover with Starman (the only DCU-Vertigo crossover too, I believe).