Do you love or hate Hal Jordan?

[ryerye17]

Risking the fact that a lot of people in CBR would crucify me, I was just wondering - do you LIKE Hal Jordan?


I personally can not stand him. He's too heterosexually "macho-shit" that I actually roll my eyes every time he makes an "Oooh I'm so alpha male" statement.

REASONS:

1) His flying without his ring pisses the hell off me. I just don't get it. Hasn't he learned from one too many incidents of flying with no ring.
2) He blatantly disrespects Batman for no reason.
3) His attitude towards Cowgirl and Carol Ferris? URGH
4) His grandstanding monologue at the start of Cry for Justice. And, no, don't say it's out of character. It's so Hal.
5) And punching a commanding officer? Honestly. Who does that?

Next to him, Guy Gardner's actually tolerable. I SUPER prefer Kyle Rayner...but that's just 'cause when I read Kyle I actually think he's gay and that Jade et. al are just mustaches.

[Jake V]

Personally I'm more of a Kyle guy, but that might be only because he was the first Green Lantern I read. I mean, I started reading comics in 91, so I was aware of Hal Jordan, but the first GL comic I bought was Kyle's first issue. I loved the journey Kyle took in Morrison's JLA from inexperienced kid with no confidence to a seasoned GL worthy of the title.

I'd be interested in reading a different writer's take on Hal. Everything Johns tends to write (that I've seen) is dialogue that only has the intent on defining a personality trait like incredible willpower, or that hes a rebel or he has no fear, and then the rest of the dialogue is just inspirational monologues. As far as I've seen, Hal's personality has been painted with very broad strokes and is rather bland. I don't hate the character, but I'd like to read something that makes me like him as much as other people seem to like him.

[The Chief5425]

Not every super hero need be a metrosexual gamma male.

Takes all kinds to make a world. Nothing wrong with having all kinds in a superhero community.

[Freakzeek]

I can't hate or love a character that has no personality

[bongoes]

I feel exactly the opposite. He doesn't come across that way to me and some of those things, (Flying without the ring, punching a commanding officer) don't really bother me. And Cry for Justice was sort of out of character, sort of.

[FlyingFox]

He's too heterosexually "macho-shit" that I actually roll my eyes every time he makes an "Oooh I'm so alpha male" statement.

This

Personally, I dislike the character but not as much Guy and John. Guy is pretty much Hal turned up to 100. Its sickening.

[invisiboy]

I dig Hal. (But I like Kyle better.)

[Fatguy]

I like him alright. However, I like the ring more than any of its wearers.

[Armadillo]

I like him, I dont have any problem with his kind of atitude.

[Infinity Man]

Hal is alright. I like Kyle and John a bit more, but whatever. I'm not so much of a fan or not a fan of any of them that I'm going to go around blasting one of them. Guy is hilarious, putting a University of Michigan sticker in his Power Battery.

[Shellhead]

I've never been a big fan of Hal Jordan, but I don't dislike him either. He started out with the same generic hero personality as most other silver age heroes, but eventually started showing that macho Right Stuff that totally fits his test pilot occupation. And a guy with incredible willpower isn't going to be some wishy-washy emo type who can't make up his mind, he's going to be bold and decisive.

1. I read a pretty good explanation somewhere, that Hal needs to feel the danger to properly perform as a test pilot. Wearing the ring would make him feel too safe.

2. Batman started it, sort of. Batman probably wasn't impressed with Hal's DUI, plus there was that whole unfortunate Parallax thing. Hal could sense that he was being disrespected, so it became mutual.

3. I'm not familiar with Cowgirl (Is she from Iowa?), but his attitude towards Carol fits the whole macho flyboy thing.

4. I didn't read that comic, because Robinson has been setting off my crap detector in recent times.

5. Punching a commanding officer? What about dying, becoming the instrument of God's vengeance, and then returning to life? Who does that? Look, we're talking about superhero comics here. If you aren't willing to suspend a certain amount of disbelief, you probably should be reading a different genre.

[Thok]

I like Hal as a character.

I'd probably dislike him in real life if I met him. But then I wouldn't have access to his inner monologue, and I have different standards for what I want from a fictional superhero and what I want from a friend/coworker.

[bebop]

I never cared much for Green Lantern, untill the last reboot. I like the character. It may be stereotypical sometimes, depending on the writer but I don´t think he´s a bad character. He´s a flawded character and I like that. I like Kyle and John, too. I loved Guy in those Maguire, DeMatteis JLA issues. But maybe the Lantern I like the most is Kilowog.

[noh-varr]

I liked Hal growing up when reading copies of the GL/GA series that were handed down from my uncle. So I had a fondness of him, then Kyle showed up, I thought he was 10 times better. I still do, Stewart is more interesting then Hal too. Hal is just this big hard head now, oooh look he punches people. Coolest most powerful weapon in the universe and he uses it to create fists, oh and he's unbeatable cuz he's so headstrong. Oh and Hal in Cry For Justice seems completely in character with him since he's returned, big ass who thinks he knows better.

[Karl O'Neill]

Love him.

He is the green lantern.

The best.

[Greg Anderson]

Though more of a John fan, I grew to really love all the GL's I've read thus far, especially Hal.

[Karl O'Neill]

I love the moment when GL GRETTI was waiting for Hal and the corps to arrive in the vega system and HAL bounces out of nowhere and falls on his face.

I love that he is so flawed but when it comes down to it, He will always win and survive.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Well, at heart, Hal is a space cop that can harness immense amounts of willpower to overcome fear.

So yeah, he should be extremely confident (which I suppose can be mistaken/conflated with cockiness) and I think the rest of his personality follows suit. Shellhead already pointed out why he flies without a ring, because he's a thrillseeker who doesn't want a safety net. When he flies he wants to do it on his own terms and his own sklls. His relationships with women are just there to illustrate that, because of his dedication to the job and emotional... immaturity that his relationships with women always suffer. And punching his commander was done so he could be kicked out of the military and speak to his mother. He wouldn't quit the job, another failing of his.

[Rev. Calibos]

1) His flying without his ring pisses the hell off me. I just don't get it. Hasn't he learned from one too many incidents of flying with no ring.


Well, for someone who really enjoys flying as much as Hal does having a 'safety net' of sorts would make him a sloppier pilot and would probably place any other pilots he's flying with in danger.

Consider this, you have your own ring and you continue driving. Because you have a ring that will protect you no matter what would that change how you drive at all?

Me, I might go ahead and punch it when that light is turning yellow when I normally wouldn't. I might go ahead and push my speed well past what I normally would when I travel to Az. to visit family.

And of course I'd probably never wear that seatbelt again, lol.


And of course there's a world of difference between driving and flying. There's a lot more to it that we don't even consider. Without the ring he has to be 'on' when he's behind the stick.

Another example is video games. I've played enough MK to where I'm pretty decent with Baraka. I can whip everyone in my lil' group and have beaten the game a number of times on increasingly difficult levels.

But if I were to tone it back to 'easy' I'd beat it a lot quicker. It would be fun at first I guess just beating the living hell out of people with a minimum of fuss but after a while I'd grow bored and I'd be eager for an actual challenge.

With his ring flying isn't a challenge. It's a safety net that's going to alter his ability to pilot that machine to the best of his abilities.


2) He blatantly disrespects Batman for no reason.

I hate this too. I think it's less 'Hal' than it is 'frustrated writers' who are disrespecting Batman.

For a long, long time it's been established that Hal's biggest detractor has been Batman. They dealt with it, a long, long time ago in Rebirth.

We all remember Stewart breaking it down. 'Hal is the one guy who isn't buying what you're selling!'

I loved that. It made sense and it was an interesting perspective on the relationship between Batman and GL.

But they don't hate each other. Batman is just very wary of trusting Hal again (and for good reason considering what happened before.)

Neither extreme is good in my book. They shouldn't be best buds but they shouldn't be outright disrespectful to one another either.



4) His grandstanding monologue at the start of Cry for Justice. And, no, don't say it's out of character. It's so Hal.
5) And punching a commanding officer? Honestly. Who does that?

Next to him, Guy Gardner's actually tolerable. I SUPER prefer Kyle Rayner...but that's just 'cause when I read Kyle I actually think he's gay and that Jade et. al are just mustaches.

Honestly, I started reading GL again last year so I've missed out on a lot.

I really like Hal. When I started with GL I picked up Volume 2 #25. The story dealt with Hal coming back to Earth to reclaim his spot as the GL for this sector and he had to deal with Guy.

It was a fantastic issue that, unfortunately, led to some rather unremarkable issues which led to Emerald Twilight.

I think that if we were to sum up Hal Jordan with one word it would have to be 'confident'.

He sees that girl at the bar, he tells everyone that he's going to get her number, they all roll their eyes but, god bless it, he actually GETS it.

I think that's what drives people so nuts about him. He's a cocky little so and so that actually, somehow, pulls off this insane bs.


And I have to admit, I've picked up GL issues prior to #25 of Volume 2 and I'd have to say I really, really prefer a cocky Hal compared to a whiny Hal that has to 'find himself'.

[ryerye17]

REGARDING THE FLYING BIT:

How many times has that plane explode? God, Sinestro destroyed his plane on their first encounter. You'd think he'd learn right? That it might actually pay to have a safeguard. He's not just a pilot - he's a goddamn superhero.

RESULT: He got imprisoned for a year with cowgirl and the other dude. WOW! All the trouble to get the damn ring on and he had to deal with one year in that terrorist jail or something (I forgot what kind of war cell?)

It's almost as horrid as Zatanna not wearing a mask so as not for villains to take advantage of gagging her.

[AdamYJ]

I've warmed up to Hal with a combination of some modern stuff and investing in a couple of Showcase Presents volumes. It took me a while though, and I will always have more of a soft spot for Kyle.

Let me put it this way regarding Hal: it's hard for a historically nerdy guy like me to warm up to a character that reminds me of a cliche high school quarterback.

[Guicho]

Depends who's writing him. Jordan's first spoken words in comics were "How can I help...." when he comes to the aid of Abin Sur.
This is a far cry from the sometimes egomaniacally written character we have today.

I liked aspects of Cooke's Hal, kind of directionless, reckless, self described "damaged goods". With his goal of reaching the stars almost shattered, but still pushing himself forward, never quite giving up.
Until Abin Sur finally recognizes that undying will in him. Then he's just someone who loves being GL, His brave and honest will being the perfect energy to fuel the ring.
It's what the Guardians sought out free willed beings living their lives fearlessly and honestly to the limit, actually out there doing it, that is what the ring recognized in Jordan.
Not someone sitting on their asses " wishing", waiting for something, someone to make them who and what they are, but somone who was already doing it.

I always though of him more of a Han Solo type, like when he charges that wall of Storm Troopers
And Leias like - He certainly has courage.
Luke says -What good is going to do is if he gets himself killed.

And that's kind of him exactly for me, a free spirit running on instinct and self preservation. When a battle breaks out he's the first one to jump in, ring blazing! Before he realizes it, he's knee deep in trouble and he's the only one who can get himself out, which is kind of where he thrives. Where he needs to be. Put him in a normal predictable situation and he's useless. He kind of creates the chaos situations for himself, or seeks them out. Adrenaline junkie.
He's the same with women.

I like him contrasted to the brooding ever planning, ever controlling Bat.
The guy is all about planning everything ahead, calculating the odds. constantly lurking in the shadows waiting for the perfect time to strike, he won't make a move without a contingency on top of a contingency plan, it's what works for him.
Retaining absolute control over everything and everyone, knowing everyone's next move before they themselves know it, is how he fight's the chaos that robed him of his parents.
So he'll never be that helpless kid again. That's great it works for Batman.
And what Jordan represents is anathema to him.
Pure honest and often reckless Free Will, something he can't control, or worse something he can not predict, or plan for.
Jordan is his exact opposite in every way.

While the Bat broods and plans the next logical move, Jordan is already down the hole, brightly flushing out whatever pops out of the shadows and confronting them on the way down.
It's reckless, but it works for him.

[Personamanx]

I strongly prefer Kyle over Hal. It's why I only read GLC.

[Mister Blisterfists]

I love Hal Jordan.

as a villain.

I even liked him pre-Parallax.

but I don't like him post-Rebirth at all.

[Mister Blisterfists]

I strongly prefer Kyle over Hal. It's why I only read GLC.

same here. Even during the big crossovers I will not read the 'main' title.

it's a fucking shame that so poor a character gets to headline, when a better one ends up getting sidelined, and marginalized.

[Mister Blisterfists]

he's useless.

Couldn't agree more!

[Desaad]

Unabashedly love. He's my second favorite DC character.

Obviously not everyone has a perfect grasp of the character. Darwyn Cooke had the best take on him ever, though. I've never liked him as much as I liked him there. Joe Kelly had a really not retrospective on him.

[Hullababy]

Love him.

He is the green lantern.

The best.

This.

Besides the "macho" thing fits his cocky,fearless test pilot personality.

[aut0matic]

hal is my favorite hero in comics. geoff johns' hal jordan is responsible for single-handedly pulling me into the DC universe. like others have stated, his attitude fits what one would associate with having incredible willpower and fearlessness. if anything, kyle is the one who seems out of place as a gl, never been a big fan of him in that role.

[Karl O'Neill]

hal is my favorite hero in comics. geoff johns' hal jordan is responsible for single-handedly pulling me into the DC universe. like others have stated, his attitude fits what one would associate with having incredible willpower and fearlessness. if anything, kyle is the one who seems out of place as a gl, never been a big fan of him in that role.

I like this guy.

Agreed 100%.

[Hullababy]

Risking the fact that a lot of people in CBR would crucify me, I was just wondering - do you LIKE Hal Jordan?


I personally can not stand him. He's too heterosexually "macho-shit" that I actually roll my eyes every time he makes an "Oooh I'm so alpha male" statement.

REASONS:

1) His flying without his ring pisses the hell off me. I just don't get it. Hasn't he learned from one too many incidents of flying with no ring.


He is a person who loves the stars and loves flying. Remember that he didn't become a pilot after becoming a GL. Flying was always the first priority for him.

2) He blatantly disrespects Batman for no reason.


Right. Like Batman has always been so respectful to Hal.

3) His attitude towards Cowgirl and Carol Ferris? URGH


What about it ?

4) His grandstanding monologue at the start of Cry for Justice. And, no, don't say it's out of character. It's so Hal.

Really ? I thought it sounded like forced robotic dialogue.

5) And punching a commanding officer? Honestly. Who does that?


There are people who have problem with authority. He even admitted it was a mistake remember ? I think Secret Origins pretty much showed how screwed up his life was before he became a GL.

Next to him, Guy Gardner's actually tolerable. I SUPER prefer Kyle Rayner...but that's just 'cause when I read Kyle I actually think he's gay and that Jade et. al are just mustaches.

Honestly I could never find either Kyle or Guy tolerable pre-Rebirth. Its only post rebirth that Guy has become my 2nd favorite GL after Hal. I find Kyle tolerable now as long as he doesn't go back into that "spider-man" mode.

And yes Hal is flawed. A man who is nearly fearless will always be flawed and pretty neurotic at times. He is the type who will leap into danger without thinking about it first. That makes him unique. He is also the guy who will make it count when the time comes.

[Alan2099]

I only liked Hal when he was Parallax. Otherwise he's either extremely bland, too perfect, or borth.

[AdamYJ]

I strongly prefer Kyle over Hal. It's why I only read GLC.

Y'know, I really like Kyle, but I stopped reading GLC. I just got tired of the whole "space cop" thing. Plus, Kyle's kind of generic in this role.

[Hullababy]

hal is my favorite hero in comics. geoff johns' hal jordan is responsible for single-handedly pulling me into the DC universe. like others have stated, his attitude fits what one would associate with having incredible willpower and fearlessness. if anything, kyle is the one who seems out of place as a gl, never been a big fan of him in that role.

Hal's new series is what brought me back to the DCU as well and I 100% agree with the rest of what you said.

[Hullababy]

I only liked Hal when he was Parallax. Otherwise he's either extremely bland, too perfect, or borth.

You know some of you people keep saying this but I've never actually seen it in the comics other than the original series (when all heroes were portrayed as perfect).

[Alan2099]

You know some of you people keep saying this but I've never actually seen it in the comics other than the original series (when all heroes were portrayed as perfect).

Some people see Hal is a dynamic and interesting character. I've never seen that, so I guess we're even there.

[Karl O'Neill]

How do you MULTIQUOTE while keep the posters name in the text as well?

[Hullababy]

How do you MULTIQUOTE while keep the posters name in the text as well?

I just used a lot of copy-paste :tongue:

[dumbstruck]

Neither. I'm indifferent.

[bongoes]

hal is my favorite hero in comics. geoff johns' hal jordan is responsible for single-handedly pulling me into the DC universe. like others have stated, his attitude fits what one would associate with having incredible willpower and fearlessness. if anything, kyle is the one who seems out of place as a gl, never been a big fan of him in that role.

I agree with everything except for the part about Kyle. Unlike most people seem to be I love Hal and Kyle. Hal is my favorite comic character ever. But Kyle is also one of my favorites. That's why Green Lantern is so perfect for me right now, There's a book focusing on my favorite character and another on one of my other favorites (plus it has Guy and the alien GLs which is a bonus.) The only thing we need now is to give John some room in the spotlight.

[Seven_Ride]

Depends who's writing him. Jordan's first spoken words in comics were "How can I help...." when he comes to the aid of Abin Sur.
This is a far cry from the sometimes egomaniacally written character we have today.

I always though of him more of a Han Solo type, like when he charges that wall of Storm Troopers
And Leias like - He certainly has courage.
Luke says -What good is going to do is if he gets himself killed.
Exactly. Hal is like that football player that recently jumped a gunman on a bus, just on instinct. No regard for his own safety, just trying to help others by drawing the fire to himself. Because he believes in his instincts.

It's interesting that he has the same effect on fandom, drawing both positive and negative attention. Anti-Hal people have always spent more time talking down Hal than they ever do talking about their favorites. I guess he's a lot more interesting to discuss. Perhaps also because he's the primary version of the character, so he's the basis for comparisons.

And that's kind of him exactly for me, a free spirit running on instinct and self preservation. When a battle breaks out he's the first one to jump in, ring blazing! Before he realizes it, he's knee deep in trouble and he's the only one who can get himself out, which is kind of where he thrives. Where he needs to be. Put him in a normal predictable situation and he's useless. He kind of creates the chaos situations for himself, or seeks them out.I think this is why a lot of modern fans have trouble with Hal. The popular "modern" characters tend towards simple "nice guys that finish first" archetypes, empty enough for the readers to project their own personality into the character. With Hal that's not really possible, for better or worse. He's too well defined as a rough-around-the the edges, repressed and commitment-shy man-of-action type. Han Solo, Captain Kirk. He's almost the opposite of the comic fan's fantasy self-image.

This is also why Bruce Wayne became such a cipher from the 90s onward. Nowadays he IS simply Batman, because focusing on Bruce Wayne's life and identity beyond Batman would reveal a lot of messy complexity, which would call attention to the fact that Bruce is a breed apart from your average comic fan. That they could NEVER be Batman, nor be his bestest friend.

[Raker616]

1) His flying without his ring pisses the hell off me. I just don't get it. Hasn't he learned from one too many incidents of flying with no ring.

For Hal having the ring with him when he flies would be like cheating, it would hold him back and wouldn't let his natural skills come out because he'd always have an emergency button which he could pull if he got in trouble. Him flying without his ring fits with who Hal is at his core, he loves to fly it's his one true love in many ways. So anything that gets in the way of him doing what he enjoys most he's going to toss to the side that's just how Hal is.

2) He blatantly disrespects Batman for no reason.

For no reason?, obviously you haven't read too much DC because Hal had more than enough reason to punch Batdick in that face during Rebirth. Batman over the years since Hal was currupted by Parallax was beyond disrespectful to him and most heroes in the DCU. It was about time that someone put him in his place who better than Hal who has no fear of big bad scary Batman I loved the 1 punch myself.

3) His attitude towards Cowgirl and Carol Ferris? URGH

Um, what attitude to Cowgirl and Carol?, Hal and Carol are good friends now after he came back in Rebirth and Cowgirl is his girlfriend so I have no idea what you are reffering to with URGH.

4) His grandstanding monologue at the start of Cry for Justice. And, no, don't say it's out of character. It's so Hal.

This basically proves you really don't know Hal at all, Cry For Justice is a horribly written out of character hack piece by James Robinson that is cringeworthy for most all Hal Jordan fans like myself.

5) And punching a commanding officer? Honestly. Who does that?
Hal does that, it's one of his flaws he's not big on standing around and explaining everything if something needs to get done he does it just make sure you don't get in his way.

Personally, Hal is my all-time favorite superhero ever since I was a kid I loved reading his comics and came to love reading his adventures over the years. Geoff has done a great job bringing him back to his essence with Rebirth he's no longer the whinny, lost, HTH shell of a former man and hero that many portrayed him as but now he's once again the cocky, fearless and heroic character that Broome created back in the SA.

[Mobey Wee]

hal is my favorite hero in comics. geoff johns' hal jordan is responsible for single-handedly pulling me into the DC universe.

Yep, same here. I would pick up the big DC trades, trying to make myself care more, and through countdown and FC, it didn't happen. Then I picked up one of the Sinestro Corps War books, and haven't been able to put the book down. The GL's have always been the most interesting thing at DC for me, and Hal is always who I will think of first. Kyle is probably my least favorite Earth Lantern. I don't dislike him at all, he just reminds me of the time when every hero had to be young and hip and have a cool costume. Kyle is much more than this, I know, it's just the image that comes to mind when I think of him. I can't help it.

[Will.S]

I've slightly warmed up to him but I'm mostly indifferent.

The only other time that I thought he was cool was pre Parallax since he wasn't written by Johns who's love for the character perhaps shows a little too much. The reason why I've slightly warmed up to him was because of the Secret Origins arc but even then I didn't quite feel like I had a great grasp on his personality. I suppose the Han Solo comparison works but I still don't really see it since it seemed that before Johns he was a little more level headed.

I usually prefer Kyle just based on my experience with him on the JLA under Morrison and Joe Kelly as well as a few other appearances so I've always been a little more invested in Kyle. He's been more interesting in the sense that he's more of the Peter Parker/Richard Rider mold who wields incredible power and is destined for something greater and well.....his constructs always look a whole lot cooler.

[Karl O'Neill]

and well.....his constructs always look a whole lot cooler.


IMHO. I always thought the over the top constructs cheapen the Green lantern Mythology.

I prefer force fields, straight beams and blasts. Big hammers and tennis rackets are kinda lame I think.

[Alan2099]

IMHO. I always thought the over the top constructs cheapen the Green lantern Mythology.

I prefer force fields, straight beams and blasts. Big hammers and tennis rackets are kinda lame I think.
I always thought it was lame that these guys had a weapon that could create anything they could think of and none of them were apparently able to think of anything other than objects without any movable parts.

[dodger8804]

Since I've been reading only since last year, Hal seems cool. I liked him in Final Crisis, even though keeping up with that story was like jumping in a bouncy house while a fruit juicer *&^&'ed my &%*, as I grated my face on a cheese slicer.

But he was cool.

[Will.S]

IMHO. I always thought the over the top constructs cheapen the Green lantern Mythology.

I prefer force fields, straight beams and blasts. Big hammers and tennis rackets are kinda lame I think.
Aren't simple constructs like big hammers and tennis rackets more of Hal's forte though?

I don't think Kyle's over the top constructs cheapened it because he had a vast artistical imagination to use as a weapon so he can utilize it to a fuller potential. Hal uses it in a much more basic fashion and I think even John Stewart has done cooler things with it that show a great amount of detail going into his constructs like when he constructs a sniper rifle or buildings.

The crazy constructs made Kyle stand out amongst the other GL's similarly to how Ethan Van Sciver gave each GL a neat and unique ring effect such as John Stewart having an architectural glow and Guy having a fierce fiery glow.

[Green Griffin]

I like Hal the best. He the only Lantern that counts in my book. But i like John and Guy. Kyle Though...he's the most boring Lantern and i hope for BL Jade to rip his heart out. He that one mistake that should not be here anymore. Then again i think i just say that because everyone else seems to love him so much.

[AdamYJ]

I always thought it was lame that these guys had a weapon that could create anything they could think of and none of them were apparently able to think of anything other than objects without any movable parts.

I figure it would be hard to create all sorts of little, moving parts out of pure willpower.

[aut0matic]

IMHO. I always thought the over the top constructs cheapen the Green lantern Mythology.

I prefer force fields, straight beams and blasts. Big hammers and tennis rackets are kinda lame I think.

i kinda like that they change up the constructs once in a while and show something different. i mean yeah, i think it's really impractical and a little stupid to whip up some wolverines or a giant viking when you can pretty much use your ring as a mini-deathstar, but whatever. a little variety never hurt anyone.

[Babylon23]

Hal is very close to my favourite DC character and I'm glad DC brought him back. GL has consistently been one of DC's best books since it's relaunch and is now one of the cornerstones of the DCU.

[Rev. Calibos]

Hal is very close to my favourite DC character and I'm glad DC brought him back. GL has consistently been one of DC's best books since it's relaunch and is now one of the cornerstones of the DCU.

Agreed. Even before Blackest Night GL and GL Corps seemed to be the location for what was going on in the DCU.

[bulletproofsponge]

he should just pick carol ferris and be done with it.

[numberONE]

Hal Jorden is the greatest Green Lantern of them all. What's not to like?

How do you MULTIQUOTE while keep the posters name in the text as well?

Hit the button, directly to the right of the "Quote" button. The one with the quotation marks and the plus sign. Once you've done this on all the posts you want to quote, just hit "Post reply".

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Hal is easily my favorite comic character, but I can totally see why people don't like him. He's from the Chuck Yeager, Captain Kirk, Indiana Jones School of Action Heroes. These guys are all about macho swagger, luck and a complete unwillingness to back down, no matter the odds against them.

I like that Hal treats Batman like he's some some obsessive-compulsive rich kid playing with toys.

I like that Hal jumps in without a plan. He's making this up as he goes along.

I like that Hal can't walk into a room without nailing a waitress or a three-boobed space nymph on the way.

Are these admirable qualities? Not really. But they're extremely entertaining in an action hero.

So, again, I can totally see why some people don't like Hal, same with Guy (who is definitely Hal turned up to '11'). When I want to read about a remarkable person, I can read Superman. When I want to read about an exciting person, I read Green Lantern.

[Freakzeek]

he should just pick Cowgirl and be done with it.
just had to change that for you:tongue:

[aut0matic]

he should just pick carol ferris and be done with it.

just had to change that for you:tongue:

ugh.. i personally don't like either.

what i would find extremely amusing though is if kyle, like the OP suggests, (or hopes :tongue: ) is revealed as being gay, and soranik gets together with hal. this complete out-of-left-field plot twist would be totally worth it just to see the look on sinestro's face :biggrin:

heh, but seriously i hope carol keeps being a huge space lesbian and cowgirl crashes into ww's invisible jet and dies or something.

[Global Honored]

I can't understand the hate. Hal's awesome. Johns' Hal is terrific and that whole New Frontier/Darwyn Cooke Lantern is about as cool as it gets. He would make a great wing man other than the fact he'd end up with all the ladies. But it beats drinking with Gnort I suppose.

[SJNeal]

I love Hal. I agree with most of what the OP said, and I still love him. He's one of my Top 3 DC characters of all time (With Wonder Woman and Aquaman) and while I really like Kyle, John and Guy, Hal will always be my #1 GL.

[bebop]

I like this guy.

Agreed 100%.

Yeah, I agree with him. It was, more or less, my case, too. I hadn´t read Green Lantern ever, untill the Johns relaunch.

[celticguy]

I don't hate or love him.

He is like Aquaman or Martain Manhunter I never minded him in team books but I never had enough interest to invest in his own series.

[Guicho]

Hal is easily my favorite comic character, but I can totally see why people don't like him. He's from the Chuck Yeager, Captain Kirk, Indiana Jones School of Action Heroes. These guys are all about macho swagger, luck and a complete unwillingness to back down, no matter the odds against them. .


Mark Waid contrasts the unlikely pairing of Hal Jordan & Bruce Wayne
-
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/GuichoYojimbo/HalJordanBruceWayne_BravetheBold_Wa.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/GuichoYojimbo/HalJordanBruceWayne_BravetheBold-1.jpg

[Hullababy]

Mark Waid contrasts the unlikely pairing of Hal Jordan & Bruce Wayne
-

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/GuichoYojimbo/HalJordanBruceWayne_BravetheBold-1.jpg

I love this page.

[Raharu]

Neither, but I'm not fond of him and can easily take him or leave him. Liked him better as a villain actually

IMHO. I always thought the over the top constructs cheapen the Green lantern Mythology.

I prefer force fields, straight beams and blasts. Big hammers and tennis rackets are kinda lame I think.

So bringing creativity to a Mythos cheapens it? Safe to assume you didn't read much Kyle as well?

[Karl O'Neill]

So bringing creativity to a Mythos cheapens it? Safe to assume you didn't read much Kyle as well?

I don't mind the odd construct.

But creating a giant hover or tennis racket or pencil just is not my thing.

Win the battle by smarter means. and easier.

[Raharu]

You mean like building mech armor contruct to help combat someone that is twice your size and strength or a laser cannon to focus your blast for more range and damage?

[ryerye17]

Mark Waid contrasts the unlikely pairing of Hal Jordan & Bruce Wayne
-
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/GuichoYojimbo/HalJordanBruceWayne_BravetheBold_Wa.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/GuichoYojimbo/HalJordanBruceWayne_BravetheBold-1.jpg
THAT kind of panel is exactly why I roll my eyes. All being "who's the alpha dog" and all.

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

[Hullababy]

You mean like building mech armor contruct to help combat someone that is twice your size and strength or a laser cannon to focus your blast for more range and damage?

Its safe to assume you've not read much of Hal as well because contrary to the popular belief, linear constructs like boxing gloves or big punches are not all that Hal does.

http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/996/996179/green-lantern-20090618023920181.jpg

[Karl O'Neill]

He is not arrogant. Hal is just a chancer.

[Hullababy]

THAT kind of panel is exactly why I roll my eyes. All being "who's the alpha dog" and all.

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

You mean Bruce isn't an arrogant heterosexual man ? Oh wait...

[Raharu]

Its safe to assume you've not read much of Hal as well because contrary to the popular belief, linear constructs like boxing gloves or big punches are not all that Hal does.

Would you like to point to where I said he didn't?

[Hullababy]

Would you like to point to where I said he didn't?

This is what you said in a previous post.

"So bringing creativity to a Mythos cheapens it? Safe to assume you didn't read much Kyle as well?"

Certainly implies that.

[Raharu]

GG said he liked force fields, lasers, basically more simple things, and that other things cheapen the mythology. The Kyle reference was when he said something about Big hammers and tennis rackets to I believe Kyle's odd constructs. Kyle did a lot more fun and creative stuff than damn hammers and rackets.

Hal was not specifically mentioned at all, nor implied really.

[Hullababy]

GG said he liked force fields, lasers, basically more simple things, and that other things cheapen the mythology. The Kyle reference was when he said something about Big hammers and tennis rackets to I believe Kyle's odd constructs. Kyle did a lot more fun and creative stuff than damn hammers and rackets.

Hal was not specifically mentioned at all, nor implied really.

Fair enough I guess but Hal has made his fair share of complex constructs other than big fists or boxing gloves. I also think that when you are in the midst of a battle you should go for the thing which is effective not something to look fashionable and cool.

[Raharu]

I never said he didn't, I was mostly referencing Kyle's contructs, but I meant general creative things as opposed to just simple, partical things. I agree that in the midst of battle you shouldn't worry about looks, but sometimes there's more to battle than just straightforward, 'I hit you, you fall down'.

The example I gave with the mech armor is a good one. That guy was much bigger than Kyle, and a lot stronger. Building the mech helped him go more toe to toe with the dude. Sometimes, even in battle, it pays to think outside the box, and even a little creativity is a good thing in that situation.

[The ?]

THAT kind of panel is exactly why I roll my eyes. All being "who's the alpha dog" and all.

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

Not for anything, is a it a valid criqtique of Batwoman if I say I dislike her for being a "confrontational lesbian."

[Guicho]

THAT kind of panel is exactly why I roll my eyes. All being "who's the alpha dog" and all.

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

Right, so gays and lesbiabns don't compete? Give me a break.
And the scene is just two guy's having fun, the negativity projected into that scene is all you.

[Hullababy]

I never said he didn't, I was mostly referencing Kyle's contructs, but I meant general creative things as opposed to just simple, partical things. I agree that in the midst of battle you shouldn't worry about looks, but sometimes there's more to battle than just straightforward, 'I hit you, you fall down'.

The example I gave with the mech armor is a good one. That guy was much bigger than Kyle, and a lot stronger. Building the mech helped him go more toe to toe with the dude. Sometimes, even in battle, it pays to think outside the box, and even a little creativity is a good thing in that situation.

Yes absolutely I agree that being creative when it counts is the right thing to do. That said, in GL v3 #46, Hal too built himself an armor to squash Mongul after he had shattered Hal's arms and knees. That was a pretty badass moment too. Also I like the difference in constructs. It shows that their personalities are from from being the same.

[Karl O'Neill]

GG
Hal was not specifically mentioned at all, nor implied really.

I am not picking on Kyle. I never mentioned him.

I just think they over the top constucts are fucking silly:biggrin: .

Why would sinestro create a big construct of KILOWOG to beat down on the red lantern leader ATROCITUS in the secret origin arc. I mean 1) he doesn't know Kilowog that well, and how menacing is kilowog to atrocitus when he doesn;t know him either!

Lol

[Raharu]

I am not picking on Kyle. I never mentioned him.

Oh, I thought you did. My bad then

[bongoes]

Mark Waid contrasts the unlikely pairing of Hal Jordan & Bruce Wayne
-
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/GuichoYojimbo/HalJordanBruceWayne_BravetheBold_Wa.jpg
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/GuichoYojimbo/HalJordanBruceWayne_BravetheBold-1.jpg
That's awesome.

[Raker616]

Yeah that panel is awesome, that's why it's such a shame that Waid isn't writting for DC anymore because he's always written a great Hal Jordan.

[Karl O'Neill]

Yeah that panel is awesome, that's why it's such a shame that Waid isn't writting for DC anymore because he's always written a great Hal Jordan.

He will be back some day. You wait and see.

[the Hornet]

Before I felt he was dull. Now I think he is awesome! Damn you Geoff !And yet, John is my favorite GL. Damn you Justice League Animated!

[Talisman]

I love him. Who cares if he's a uber right winger, who digs on Sarah Palin's cougar look. We all have faults.

[Mobey Wee]

THAT kind of panel is exactly why I roll my eyes. All being "who's the alpha dog" and all.

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

But not arrogant gay people? Just wondering. I just don't tend to use gay and straight when trying to describe someone, I don't think it does much to really define a personality. AND it made me sad because I'm straight. And I don't want to annoy you with my oozing macheesemo:biggrin:(OK, it's not really oozing so much as seeping out slowly).


I love him. Who cares if he's a uber right winger, who digs on Sarah Palin's cougar look. We all have faults.

and those are some major faults. but yeah, I still love him.

[Munkiman]

Risking the fact that a lot of people in CBR would crucify me, I was just wondering - do you LIKE Hal Jordan?


I personally can not stand him. He's too heterosexually "macho-shit" that I actually roll my eyes every time he makes an "Oooh I'm so alpha male" statement.

REASONS:

1) His flying without his ring pisses the hell off me. I just don't get it. Hasn't he learned from one too many incidents of flying with no ring.
2) He blatantly disrespects Batman for no reason.
3) His attitude towards Cowgirl and Carol Ferris? URGH
4) His grandstanding monologue at the start of Cry for Justice. And, no, don't say it's out of character. It's so Hal.
5) And punching a commanding officer? Honestly. Who does that?

Next to him, Guy Gardner's actually tolerable. I SUPER prefer Kyle Rayner...but that's just 'cause when I read Kyle I actually think he's gay and that Jade et. al are just mustaches.
I like Hal for the "overcoming fear" thing. I haven't really read much stuff with Kyle on his own, though, but I definitely like Hal more than Guy or John.

1) Every superhero needs a day job. :P Hal was a pilot before he was a Green Lantern, he loved flying a plane and he's not just going to abandon that. It also gives him a connection with his late father.
2) I dunno about before, but Batman didn't trust Hal because of the Parallax thing, and also didn't like him as a person. But really, their personalities just seem to oppose each other. Can't be helped.
3) I dunno about a lot of the recent stuff, like Cowgirl, but... Man Without Fear. It's not about being macho, it's just emphasizing his kinda reckless attitude.
4) Haven't read it.
5) He admits that it's a mistake afterward. He just wanted to quit the Air Force so he could see his mom one last time, but he was too concerned with his image, plus he had just found out his mom was dying and that can make a person pretty emotional. So yeah, I'd blame it on the circumstances - it's not like he just goes around punching commanding officers all the time.

Why would sinestro create a big construct of KILOWOG to beat down on the red lantern leader ATROCITUS in the secret origin arc. I mean 1) he doesn't know Kilowog that well, and how menacing is kilowog to atrocitus when he doesn;t know him either!
Sinestro knows Kilowog. Kilowog's a pretty prominent GL. I'm pretty sure he did basic training for Sinestro, too - Abin Sur was just his mentor later on, just like Sinestro was for Hal.

[Raker616]

Originally Posted by Talisman
I love him. Who cares if he's a uber right winger, who digs on Sarah Palin's cougar look. We all have faults.

While I have no doubt that Palin is right up Hal's lane, I really don't get the uber right wing stuff (I like to ignore most of his HTH portrayl myself). To me Hal if anything would be an independant who's a hawk when it comes to defense and a liberal when it comes to letting people be who they are.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

THAT kind of panel is exactly why I roll my eyes. All being "who's the alpha dog" and all.

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

And how would you feel about Hal if he were an arrogant homosexual? The character would be virtually the same Alpha Male type, so what does sexual orientation have anything to do with this? Does Northstar piss you off too? Does Achilles piss you off?

Your issue with Hal sounds like it has more to do with the people who've encountered in the real world, not a fictional character like Hal.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

You mean Bruce isn't an arrogant heterosexual man ? Oh wait...

Nobody with a straight face can accuse Bruce of being heterosexual. Not after "Batman & Robin" AKA Bat-Nipples On Ice!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I love him. Who cares if he's a uber right winger, who digs on Sarah Palin's cougar look. We all have faults.

Maybe the Hal in Robinson's Cry For Justice (JUUUUUSSSSTTIIIICCE!), but not the Hal Jordan Johns, Cooke, Jones, Englehart, Wien, Wolfman or Broome wrote for the past half century. Even O'Neil's Hal wasn't a right-winger--he was just a Straw-Man.

Hell, Hal even referred to himself as a bleeding-heart liberal at one point. That disqualifies him from being a Republican ever, no matter how many times he quotes John McCain or tortures Clayface.

Now Batman? There's a Republican.

[ryerye17]

Oh come on!

Green Lantern Rebirth - the whole bit between Hal Jordan and Batman was quite frankly rather useless. Geoff just placed it in there to reinforce that his Green Lantern is more "badass" than Batman.

[Hullababy]

Oh come on!

Green Lantern Rebirth - the whole bit between Hal Jordan and Batman was quite frankly rather useless. Geoff just placed it in there to reinforce that his Green Lantern is more "badass" than Batman.

Nothing to enforce about that. He is more badass than Batman anyway :tongue:

Also, lets not forget how many times Batman disrespected Hal before that. He refused to think of him as anything else other than a murderer. The dude was so full of himself that he couldn't even appreciate that if not for Hal, he and the entire planet earth would be ice cream. Batman had it coming and I was glad when Hal whacked him.

Also Hal might be cocky but he isn't an arrogant ass to his friends. Can't say the same for Batman.

[Pól Rua]

Oh come on!

Green Lantern Rebirth - the whole bit between Hal Jordan and Batman was quite frankly rather useless. Geoff just placed it in there to reinforce that his Green Lantern is more "badass" than Batman.

No, that was just there to pander to fanboys who were all chuffed that 'their' Green Lantern was back.
And frankly, yeah, Geoff Johns does write Hal as a bit of an 'alpha dog dick', but that's only because he's a terrible writer who can't write someone who's brave (sometimes to the point of recklessness) without making him into some sort of Dexter St.Jock caricature.

But then again, with everyone complaining that their heroes are 'too perfect', we're seeing it everywhere. Anyone with a minor character defect is having it transformed into a crippling psychosis.

Batman, who was once a highly disciplined and well-trained guy with a couple of abandonment issues is now a grim, semi-fascistic sociopath.

Same for Hal. Because fans today can't just accept that someone is brave, strong willed, forthright and heroic (because that's 'too perfect') today's writers have to turn him into some sort of preening alpha male dick.

Be careful what you wish for, I guess...

[aut0matic]

Same for Hal. Because fans today can't just accept that someone is brave, strong willed, forthright and heroic (because that's 'too perfect') today's writers have to turn him into some sort of preening alpha male dick.

Be careful what you wish for, I guess...

i don't agree with your assesment of hal being a "preening alpha male dick," but then again that is the main reason i love black adam. with him it works, none of the heroes like or trust him, he doesn't hide the fact that he's a dick, actually he's proud of it. and he's damn powerful, so who's going to stop him from continuing on his merry dick life so dickishly?

not everybody can be superman, (nor should they be) and it's good to have different heroes with different personalities. you can still be arrogant and be a hero, i don't see it being contradictory at all and i'm sure it's not against the superhero handbook... i like a little arrogance because it's a trait i can relate to with the character. kyle fans say they can "relate" to him because he's so average and nerdy or angsty or whatever reason, why find it so hard to believe that some people can relate to someone completely different than that?

[The Chief5425]

I love this page.


Same here (the Brave and the Bold #1 page, in case it didn't copy over). "I wish Barry could have lived to see you with money" is arguably my favorite line in any comic book, ever. One of the advantages of having Barry dead was that characters were actually allowed to miss him.

[Raker616]

It's also great that Hal got over on Batman yet again and the look on his face is pretty priceless i'm going to have to re-read the entire arc again that was one of my favorites since i came back to comics.

[Lupek]

Hal is the best thing going in superhero comics nowadays, let alone DC comics.

[Pól Rua]

i don't agree with your assesment of hal being a "preening alpha male dick," but then again that is the main reason i love black adam. with him it works, none of the heroes like or trust him, he doesn't hide the fact that he's a dick, actually he's proud of it. and he's damn powerful, so who's going to stop him from continuing on his merry dick life so dickishly?
There's a difference though, because Black Adam is a mass-murdering fascist supervillain.
You might as well say the same about Lex Luthor or the Joker.


not everybody can be superman, (nor should they be) and it's good to have different heroes with different personalities. you can still be arrogant and be a hero, i don't see it being contradictory at all and i'm sure it's not against the superhero handbook... i like a little arrogance because it's a trait i can relate to with the character. kyle fans say they can "relate" to him because he's so average and nerdy or angsty or whatever reason, why find it so hard to believe that some people can relate to someone completely different than that?
Yeah, but there's a difference between being 'a little arrogant' and being a dick about it. Hal Jordon was always a cocky, forthright cat. Brave to the point of recklessness and prone to jumping in feet first and thinking about how he's gonna get back out later.
It seems that today's fans don't like that sort of character. They don't want their heroes to be heroic... they think that it makes them boring or too perfect. They want a pack of neurotic, dickish crybabies.

'New Frontier' was good, wasn't it?

[Jarath]

Risking the fact that a lot of people in CBR would crucify me, I was just wondering - do you LIKE Hal Jordan?


I personally can not stand him. He's too heterosexually "macho-shit" that I actually roll my eyes every time he makes an "Oooh I'm so alpha male" statement.

REASONS:

1) His flying without his ring pisses the hell off me. I just don't get it. Hasn't he learned from one too many incidents of flying with no ring.
2) He blatantly disrespects Batman for no reason.
3) His attitude towards Cowgirl and Carol Ferris? URGH
4) His grandstanding monologue at the start of Cry for Justice. And, no, don't say it's out of character. It's so Hal.
5) And punching a commanding officer? Honestly. Who does that?

Next to him, Guy Gardner's actually tolerable. I SUPER prefer Kyle Rayner...but that's just 'cause when I read Kyle I actually think he's gay and that Jade et. al are just mustaches.

Hal isn't my favourite of the Green Lanterns but I'm not sure I agree with all your points here.

Is his thing with Batman for no reason? Batman has a bit of an attitude problem and hates it when others even suggest they might no better than he does. The way he treated Hal when he returned was out of order. Also Hal is as head strong as Bruce which means their personalities are going to clash. But they buried the hatchet later and the scene where Hal offered Bruce the ring was one of my favourite Hal scenes.

You say the Cry for Justice dialogue may be in character for Hal but from what I've read the dialogue is just a bit shoddy. It's kind of default Hal, rather than being written by someone who is passionate about character, like Johns.

The punching the commanding officer thing was explained. It's because he couldn't bring himself to quit so it was his only way out of the Air Force so that he could see his dying mother.

The flying without the ring thing is just a quirk of the character so I guess that's just subjective as to whether you like it or not. I enjoyed the scenes where he berated himself for not wearing it when they were shot down and captured.

I agree that sometimes he is a bit too macho. Guy can pull it off because he doesn't care what people think of him.

Sorry if I've repeated anything others have said in the thread it's just I need to go to bed and don't have time to read all this thread tonight.

Oh and to answer the original question of the thread. I think Hal is ok. I think that under alot of writers I wouldn't like him, but Johns has developed him in a way that I enjoy. I prefer Kyle and I think Guy is a brilliant character under both Gibbons and Tomasi. Still love when he says "My nipples just got hard." in the Dark Side of Green.

[Jess C.H.]

Jose Medina in Tucson, also known as Luis. Make yourself known my friend. Your friend in Florida is hangin out in the Ororo Munroe/Storm apreciation thread.

[dupersuper]

I agree with everything except for the part about Kyle. Unlike most people seem to be I love Hal and Kyle. Hal is my favorite comic character ever. But Kyle is also one of my favorites. That's why Green Lantern is so perfect for me right now, There's a book focusing on my favorite character and another on one of my other favorites (plus it has Guy and the alien GLs which is a bonus.) The only thing we need now is to give John some room in the spotlight.

I agree, I never got the either/or mentality a lot of GL fans buy into. I've read great stuff with Hal, John, Kyle, Guy, Alan, Jade, Mogo, Kilowog, Ch'p, Salaak et al...all written as interesting characters in cool stories. I've enjoyed the childish fun of the silver age Hal, the political awareness of the GL/GA stories, the introspective Gerard Jones days, the tortured villian-turned redemption-seeking Spectre, then the redeemed Hal in the awsomeness of Sinestro War and Blackest Night, I've enjoyed Guy as JLI comic relief, Kyle as everyman artist by Marz and jr member of the Morrison space god pantheon, John in Mosaic (which nicely tied his GL/GA intro, Action Comics Weekly, GL special and CO appearances into a coherant character), and in JLU, The rest of the corps in other stories (by Moore, Gibbons, Tomasi, etc.), Alan in JSA...it's all good.

[dupersuper]

Is his thing with Batman for no reason? Batman has a bit of an attitude problem and hates it when others even suggest they might no better than he does. The way he treated Hal when he returned was out of order. Also Hal is as head strong as Bruce which means their personalities are going to clash. But they buried the hatchet later and the scene where Hal offered Bruce the ring was one of my favourite Hal scenes.


I agree with some of this; Batman treating Hal shabbily when he returned was hardly "out of order". This being long before any one knew about Paralax, as far as every one knew, Hal went nuts, assaulted several GL's, cut off Boodikas hand, killed Kilowog, Sinestro and all but 1 Guardian, fought his friends, and tried to restart the entire timeline. Mistrust is understandable. I do like the idea that they didn't get along in the early days because they're both so strong willed, because Hal is impetous and Batman a planner, because Hal was 1 of the few that didn't fear Bats at all, etc...then those feelings came back to the surface when Bats thought Hal betrayed them.

[greatmetropolitan]

I think the reason a lot of people don't like Hal is that he is basically the dumb jock from high school who did the stupid irresponsible thing and somehow gets praised as a hero for it. He gets the girl for playing football while you get into an ivy league college kind of thing.

I think that especially rubs the wrong way in DC, as I see DC being the more alternative/geeky/science kids to marvel's fratboy jocks of the comics world.

Hal Jordan SHOULD be a likable character. Just look and Ben Browed in SG1 to see a Hal done right. David Boreanaz in Bones.

But, no. We get Mary-sue Hal who even has cool imperfections (He's a risk-taker dammit!) which make him perfect. Pass. Give me a character the writer doesn't wanna tongue kiss.

[Seven_Ride]

I think the reason a lot of people don't like Hal is that he is basically the dumb jock from high school who did the stupid irresponsible thing and somehow gets praised as a hero for it. He gets the girl for playing football while you get into an ivy league college kind of thing.
See, but he's not a dumb jock from high school character. In most of the stories from BEFORE Hal became so controversial in the 90s, he was a noble, self-sacrificial character and talented hero, with a knack for mis-stepping into trouble but an even better knack for getting out. He was a likeable person with a Han Solo-ish charm, in comparison to the so-serious Batman and straight-laced Superman. He and Green Arrow had actual lives, some faults and even messed up from time to time. But they were highly moral and loyal, each in their way. They were a unique part of DC's landscape.

But post-ET, some view him in a VERY skewed light. I guess Hal from the 90s was a hateable character, which means fans who remember that era may simply always hate Hal, regardless.

I think everyone should forget Hal from the late 80s onward and just go read New Frontier. THAT's Hal Jordan.

[Hullababy]

I think the reason a lot of people don't like Hal is that he is basically the dumb jock from high school who did the stupid irresponsible thing and somehow gets praised as a hero for it. He gets the girl for playing football while you get into an ivy league college kind of thing.


Firstly, people who don't like him are in the minority compared to how many like him.

What stupid thing did he do that he got praised as a hero for ? He did a lot of stupid things before becoming a GL but he was never praised for it. He was thrown out of the air force, people weren't even ready to let him fly again. The fact that he was so flawed before becoming a GL makes it even more fascinating that he goes on to become the best officer of an intergalactic police force.

[Hullababy]

I think everyone should forget Hal from the late 80s onward and just go read New Frontier. THAT's Hal Jordan.

Amen to that. New Frontier is a great Hal Jordan story.

[Seven_Ride]

What stupid thing did he do that he got praised as a hero for ? He did a lot of stupid things before becoming a GL but he was never praised for it.
The point of making mistakes is to show heroism in overcoming failure. But it seems for those who don't like Hal, they prefer to view it as him being rewarded for bad behavior.

As I said earlier, there's a LOT of carried baggage amongst internet fans. It makes itself heard all the time.

[snarkbunny]

I don't hate Hal, but I don't love the character either. Of the 4 earth GLs, Guy's my personal favourite and I've always enjoyed the Green Lantern Corps. Once Blackest Night is over, I will probably go back to just picking up GLC instead of both GLC and GL.

I did find Hal as Parallax more interesting than Hal as GL, angsty insane villains amuse me.

[ryerye17]

Let's look at Hal as opposed to the DC Big Three.

The Trinity are the highest of high. They're powerful, but they're not infallble. They all make mistakes and we love them for it. But they make CRUCIAL choices - they don't do it based on ego alone.

Superman is the cream of the crop. He's the legend all superheroes aspire to be. AND, he's also super-nice. His holier-than-thou attitude pisses of a lot of people (Smallville) especially his no-kill policy. Yet, it's through this that makes him Superman. You remember the main reason the Batman movie was more succesful than the Superman one? Because most people don't want to see a person who's not only physically better than them - but morally too.

Batman's screwed up BIG TIME. But he's a strategist. Brother Eye was there for a reason. The files he had on JLA (Tower of Babel) were there for a reason. He's bitchy for a reason - he's the goddamn Batman. He defeats metahumans as an ordinary person.

Wonder Woman's a warrior princess/ambassador of peace. She also murdered Maxwell Lord. But it wasn't an ego thing - it was because it was necessary.

So Superman doesn't kill even in extreme circumstances, Batman builds countermeasure for every superhero and Wonder Woman murdered Maxwell Lord.



...and Hal Jordan doesn't wear his ring when he flies. I JUST DON'T GET IT. It's stupid. He doesn't seem like...a member of the Trinity.


It's just like Superman using the power-robbing Kryptonite when he goes into his Clark Kent identity just because he doesn't want to be Super all the time. Or Batman putting himself in an amnesiac trance to forget his martial arts moves when he's Bruce Wayne.

Still remember Linda Carter's Wonder Woman? She had to transform! And of course the aftermath of Who is Wonder Woman where she's powerless as Diana Prince. That was silly.

[Alex L]

Nothing to enforce about that. He is more badass than Batman anyway :tongue:

Also, lets not forget how many times Batman disrespected Hal before that. He refused to think of him as anything else other than a murderer. The dude was so full of himself that he couldn't even appreciate that if not for Hal, he and the entire planet earth would be ice cream. Batman had it coming and I was glad when Hal whacked him.

Also Hal might be cocky but he isn't an arrogant ass to his friends. Can't say the same for Batman.

But.. he was a murderer.

Indirectly, in that when he depowered the Corps anyone who was in space was instantly exposed to vacuum and presumably many of them died.

Directly, in the case of Sinestro and Kilowog.

If you shoot someone in cold blood during a bank robbery, then rescue a kid from a house fire, it doesn't erase the fact that you shot someone.

And while other heroes in the DCU may be willing to forgive, it makes perfect sense that Batman -- a persona created because of murder -- would not.

...and Hal Jordan doesn't wear his ring when he flies. I JUST DON'T GET IT. It's stupid. He doesn't seem like...a member of the Trinity.


In fairness, he got bit in the ass hard for that one when he and his teammates were shot down and held as POW's. It's the blackjack scene, but this time he hit bust.

[Jarath]

Let's look at Hal as opposed to the DC Big Three.

The Trinity are the highest of high. They're powerful, but they're not infallble. They all make mistakes and we love them for it. But they make CRUCIAL choices - they don't do it based on ego alone.

Superman is the cream of the crop. He's the legend all superheroes aspire to be. AND, he's also super-nice. His holier-than-thou attitude pisses of a lot of people (Smallville) especially his no-kill policy. Yet, it's through this that makes him Superman. You remember the main reason the Batman movie was more succesful than the Superman one? Because most people don't want to see a person who's not only physically better than them - but morally too.

Batman's screwed up BIG TIME. But he's a strategist. Brother Eye was there for a reason. The files he had on JLA (Tower of Babel) were there for a reason. He's bitchy for a reason - he's the goddamn Batman. He defeats metahumans as an ordinary person.

Wonder Woman's a warrior princess/ambassador of peace. She also murdered Maxwell Lord. But it wasn't an ego thing - it was because it was necessary.

So Superman doesn't kill even in extreme circumstances, Batman builds countermeasure for every superhero and Wonder Woman murdered Maxwell Lord.



...and Hal Jordan doesn't wear his ring when he flies. I JUST DON'T GET IT. It's stupid. He doesn't seem like...a member of the Trinity.


It's just like Superman using the power-robbing Kryptonite when he goes into his Clark Kent identity just because he doesn't want to be Super all the time. Or Batman putting himself in an amnesiac trance to forget his martial arts moves when he's Bruce Wayne.

Still remember Linda Carter's Wonder Woman? She had to transform! And of course the aftermath of Who is Wonder Woman where she's powerless as Diana Prince. That was silly.

I didn't realise a hero had to live up to the standards of the trinity in order for people to like them? The whole point of Hal Jordan is that he is a man that conquers fear. He was also a cocky, arrogant pilot before he even got the ring. It's also his true passion. Just like a surfer wouldn't go surfing with a life jacket, Hal doesn't fly with his ring. It makes perfect sense in my mind.

[Hullababy]

...and Hal Jordan doesn't wear his ring when he flies. I JUST DON'T GET IT. It's stupid. He doesn't seem like...a member of the Trinity.




Why should he seem like a member of the trinity ?

[dupersuper]

Let's look at Hal as opposed to the DC Big Three.

The Trinity are the highest of high. They're powerful, but they're not infallble. They all make mistakes and we love them for it. But they make CRUCIAL choices - they don't do it based on ego alone.

Superman is the cream of the crop. He's the legend all superheroes aspire to be. AND, he's also super-nice. His holier-than-thou attitude pisses of a lot of people (Smallville) especially his no-kill policy. Yet, it's through this that makes him Superman. You remember the main reason the Batman movie was more succesful than the Superman one? Because most people don't want to see a person who's not only physically better than them - but morally too.

Batman's screwed up BIG TIME. But he's a strategist. Brother Eye was there for a reason. The files he had on JLA (Tower of Babel) were there for a reason. He's bitchy for a reason - he's the goddamn Batman. He defeats metahumans as an ordinary person.

Wonder Woman's a warrior princess/ambassador of peace. She also murdered Maxwell Lord. But it wasn't an ego thing - it was because it was necessary.

So Superman doesn't kill even in extreme circumstances, Batman builds countermeasure for every superhero and Wonder Woman murdered Maxwell Lord.



...and Hal Jordan doesn't wear his ring when he flies. I JUST DON'T GET IT. It's stupid. He doesn't seem like...a member of the Trinity.


It's just like Superman using the power-robbing Kryptonite when he goes into his Clark Kent identity just because he doesn't want to be Super all the time. Or Batman putting himself in an amnesiac trance to forget his martial arts moves when he's Bruce Wayne.

Still remember Linda Carter's Wonder Woman? She had to transform! And of course the aftermath of Who is Wonder Woman where she's powerless as Diana Prince. That was silly.

I agree with everything you say...except I have no idea why Hal SHOULD seem like a member of the trinity, As the name "trinity" makes quite plain, he is not.


I think everyone should forget Hal from the late 80s onward

But then they'd miss the Gerard Jones run. I LIKE the Gerard Jones run...:frown:

[dupersuper]

Give me a character the writer doesn't wanna tongue kiss.

Glorious Gilly? She-Thing? Atrocious? Junior? Nekron? Two-Face? Morgainne LeFey?

[Jolly Mon]

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

You realize if I said "Emo homosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry", I'd be tarred & feathered, branded as a homophobe, and probably banned. You've made it clear that you prefer characters that are gay (or you can imagine are gay), so perhaps you could lighten up on characters that people enjoy that are written to the other extreme. Isn't there room for more than one type?

[kalorama]

THAT kind of panel is exactly why I roll my eyes. All being "who's the alpha dog" and all.

Arrogant heterosexual people just piss me off I'm sorry.

But arrogant homosexual people are A-OK?

[Raker616]

Originally Posted by ryerye17
Let's look at Hal as opposed to the DC Big Three.

The Trinity are the highest of high. They're powerful, but they're not infallble. They all make mistakes and we love them for it. But they make CRUCIAL choices - they don't do it based on ego alone.

Superman is the cream of the crop. He's the legend all superheroes aspire to be. AND, he's also super-nice. His holier-than-thou attitude pisses of a lot of people (Smallville) especially his no-kill policy. Yet, it's through this that makes him Superman. You remember the main reason the Batman movie was more succesful than the Superman one? Because most people don't want to see a person who's not only physically better than them - but morally too.

Batman's screwed up BIG TIME. But he's a strategist. Brother Eye was there for a reason. The files he had on JLA (Tower of Babel) were there for a reason. He's bitchy for a reason - he's the goddamn Batman. He defeats metahumans as an ordinary person.

Wonder Woman's a warrior princess/ambassador of peace. She also murdered Maxwell Lord. But it wasn't an ego thing - it was because it was necessary.

So Superman doesn't kill even in extreme circumstances, Batman builds countermeasure for every superhero and Wonder Woman murdered Maxwell Lord.



...and Hal Jordan doesn't wear his ring when he flies. I JUST DON'T GET IT. It's stupid. He doesn't seem like...a member of the Trinity.


It's just like Superman using the power-robbing Kryptonite when he goes into his Clark Kent identity just because he doesn't want to be Super all the time. Or Batman putting himself in an amnesiac trance to forget his martial arts moves when he's Bruce Wayne.

Still remember Linda Carter's Wonder Woman? She had to transform! And of course the aftermath of Who is Wonder Woman where she's powerless as Diana Prince. That was silly.

First off if you think all Hal Jordan is known for is flying without his ring, something be the way that has been explained indepth already you obviously don't get him and never will.

What makes Hal imo better than the holy trinity is that with or without the ring he's still the same heroic person. Hal doesn't need to hide behind the mask and alterego to do something, if he sees a woman getting robbed he'll jump in and take down the badguy without powers. Hal is the guy that will run into a burning building without any powers and look to help anyone out because that's just the kind of person he is.

Hal also when he puts on the GL costume, doesn't have an act that he puts on just because he's a hero he's the same at all times it makes more real than other heroes who seem to be putting on an act when in costume. Hal first impulse when Abin Sur crashed was not fear or shock it was to help this strange alien who needed it that is what makes him a great hero not the ring or anything else.

[Aziz Abbasi]

My introduction to the realm of "Green Lantern" was through Hal's Silver Age comics, I really loved and enjoyed every issue of it, I still do

Hal is my favorite Lantern

[TeamED209]

i dislike hal but i like the stories he's in....

perhaps a poll should have been made for this thread

[dupersuper]

First off if you think all Hal Jordan is known for is flying without his ring, something be the way that has been explained indepth already you obviously don't get him and never will.

What makes Hal imo better than the holy trinity is that with or without the ring he's still the same heroic person. Hal doesn't need to hide behind the mask and alterego to do something, if he sees a woman getting robbed he'll jump in and take down the badguy without powers. Hal is the guy that will run into a burning building without any powers and look to help anyone out because that's just the kind of person he is.


If you think this doesn't apply to the Trinity, you obviously don't get Supes, Bats and WW (I'm assuming that's who you meant). You think Clark Bruce or Diana would, what, just walk past a mugging if they didn't have their costume handy? How many times have Superman and Wonder Woman been powerless in stories that were just to drive home the fact that they're not heroes just because of those powers?

[Hullababy]

If you think this doesn't apply to the Trinity, you obviously don't get Supes, Bats and WW (I'm assuming that's who you meant). You think Clark Bruce or Diana would, what, just walk past a mugging if they didn't have their costume handy? How many times have Superman and Wonder Woman been powerless in stories that were just to drive home the fact that they're not heroes just because of those powers?

I think what he means to say is that Hal Jordan the Green Lantern and Hal Jordan the man aren't too different from each other unlike Batman or Superman whose secret identities are like a whole different personality.

[show name]

I like Hal Jordan. I think comparing him to a high-school jock only works on the superficial level. Yes, he likes the ladies and has a strong penchant for derring-do, and perhaps he can be fairly accused of cockiness at times, but he is not aggressive, domineering, or disrespectful (though at times he's insubordinate). His personality is fairly warm most of the time. Like others I also really dug the New Frontier version, and I also like reading the Geoff John's version.

I haven't read much Kyle. I started reading a couple trades and was liking his character for the most part, until I got to the story where a gay friend of his was badly beaten and hospitalized by a bigot. As I recall it, Kyle entered the prison cell of the attacker in a state of rage and used his ring to brutalize and torture him. I found this act pretty repugnant on a moral level. The ring is the so-called most powerful weapon in the universe, it wasn't made for personal vendettas or for torturing people after they've already been incarcerated. What he did was certainly understandable from an emotional level, but it doesn't meet the moral standard for superheroes, IMO.

Call Hal an alpha-male if you like, but he's no bully. I can't see Hal, John, or Alan Scott doing what Kyle did...at worst they might have entered the prison cell, took off their rings, and fought the guy in a fair fight. I stopped reading the Kyle run after that.

If people who know the Kyle character better say that that particular story moment is out of character for him, I'll accept that (it's not like Hal doesn't have a huge blotch on his career, either). But if people say that's pretty much in character for him, it's going to be hard for me to respect him as much. That said, I liked Kyle in Rebirth and the post-Rebirth stories I've seen him in. His small JLU appearances have been pretty good, too.

Not trying to start a Hal/Kyle war...but these thoughts have come up for me whenever I see posts putting down Hal in favor of Kyle. (Although no one's really done that on this thread so maybe it was inappropriate for me to post this :confused:?)
Anyway, Hal may be old school, but there are some very good things about old school.

[Raharu]

I'm not sure what story you are specifically referencing, as I don't really remember it, but I assume it was fairly early on? The thing about Kyle is that he grew as a character into a hero, he didn't start out as a hero that always took the 'right' route. One of the main reasons people didn't like him at first (outside the whole Emerald Twilight situation) was because he was somewhat silly, whiny, and selfish in the first bit of his career, but he really grew over time to a great hero.

Like now, over in GLC, I believe he and others of the Corps decided against execution of prisoners without taking them to a fair trail first.

[ryerye17]

I like Hal Jordan. I think comparing him to a high-school jock only works on the superficial level. Yes, he likes the ladies and has a strong penchant for derring-do, and perhaps he can be fairly accused of cockiness at times, but he is not aggressive, domineering, or disrespectful (though at times he's insubordinate). His personality is fairly warm most of the time. Like others I also really dug the New Frontier version, and I also like reading the Geoff John's version.

I haven't read much Kyle. I started reading a couple trades and was liking his character for the most part, until I got to the story where a gay friend of his was badly beaten and hospitalized by a bigot. As I recall it, Kyle entered the prison cell of the attacker in a state of rage and used his ring to brutalize and torture him. I found this act pretty repugnant on a moral level. The ring is the so-called most powerful weapon in the universe, it wasn't made for personal vendettas or for torturing people after they've already been incarcerated. What he did was certainly understandable from an emotional level, but it doesn't meet the moral standard for superheroes, IMO.

Call Hal an alpha-male if you like, but he's no bully. I can't see Hal, John, or Alan Scott doing what Kyle did...at worst they might have entered the prison cell, took off their rings, and fought the guy in a fair fight. I stopped reading the Kyle run after that.

If people who know the Kyle character better say that that particular story moment is out of character for him, I'll accept that (it's not like Hal doesn't have a huge blotch on his career, either). But if people say that's pretty much in character for him, it's going to be hard for me to respect him as much. That said, I liked Kyle in Rebirth and the post-Rebirth stories I've seen him in. His small JLU appearances have been pretty good, too.

Not trying to start a Hal/Kyle war...but these thoughts have come up for me whenever I see posts putting down Hal in favor of Kyle. (Although no one's really done that on this thread so maybe it was inappropriate for me to post this :confused:?)
Anyway, Hal may be old school, but there are some very good things about old school.

How..how..how dare you. I dunno. That Kyle-gay-bashing issue was legendary. I personally loved it, speaking not only as a gay person but also as a person of sensibility.

In case you haven't noticed, that storyarc gave Winnick a GLAAD award.

And, yes, he did torture an inmate for information. But that's 'cause Kyle's screws up like everyone else. And anyone in that situation would act the same way.

[Carter Hall]

I love the Hal, personally, but I do think the way Robinson writes him is really out of character. I can't say I blame anyone for being annoyed at the "Alpha male" dialogue he churns out.

Other than that, I like how Hal is mature yet conflicted, noble yet rebellious. I love Kyle, too, but Kyle always struck me more as my little brother wearing a ring.

[Jolly Mon]

How..how..how dare you. I dunno. That Kyle-gay-bashing issue was legendary. I personally loved it, speaking not only as a gay person but also as a person of sensibility.

In case you haven't noticed, that storyarc gave Winnick a GLAAD award.

And, yes, he did torture an inmate for information. But that's 'cause Kyle's screws up like everyone else. And anyone in that situation would act the same way.

Actually, what he did was a crime. And no, anyone in that situation would not act the same. Gay-bashing is wrong, but torturing someone weaker than you (no matter how bad the person is) and who is already in jail is wrong too. Or do you think the ends justify the means because it strikes close to home for you?

[ryerye17]

Actually, what he did was a crime. And no, anyone in that situation would not act the same. Gay-bashing is wrong, but torturing someone weaker than you (no matter how bad the person is) and who is already in jail is wrong too. Or do you think the ends justify the means because it strikes close to home for you?

Remember what he said to Batman?

"You pull this stunt off at least five times before breakfast."

or something to that effect. Because you know if Batman did it, it's okay.

[Raharu]

Okay, I honestly do not remember this story, what exactly did Kyle do to the guy?

[jgiannantoni05]

I like how Hal is mature yet conflicted, noble yet rebellious.

I agree. I greatly prefer Hal Jordan. Sometimes though, some writers just don't write him correctly. Johns dead nails how Hal should be written.

DC was quite right in returning Flash and GL and others to their most iconic incarnations. Sticking to the most iconic incarnations is how these "lesser than Batman & Superman" characters can take off into other media and capture the world, not just comic fans. I want GL to someday be a comic series that is a household name, a series that leads to many successful films, shows, etc. Johns want GL to take off, and so do I.

[Raharu]

They had thirty years to do that before they were replaced, I don't think putting them back to their 'iconic' status is going to suddenly change that

[Hullababy]

They had thirty years to do that before they were replaced, I don't think putting them back to their 'iconic' status is going to suddenly change that

Its already started. Just wait till the movie gets out.

[Raharu]

I don't really think the restoration of the iconic GL had much to do with that, it was more a case of WB finally getting things together with other characters outside Batman & Superman.

Although, that's still to be seen if they do, we'll just have to wait

[show name]

I'm not sure what story you are specifically referencing, as I don't really remember it, but I assume it was fairly early on? The thing about Kyle is that he grew as a character into a hero, he didn't start out as a hero that always took the 'right' route. One of the main reasons people didn't like him at first (outside the whole Emerald Twilight situation) was because he was somewhat silly, whiny, and selfish in the first bit of his career, but he really grew over time to a great hero.


Yes, I think it was early, a 90's story. That's good to hear that his character development arc has been in the upward direction. I can see then why his fans like him so much...he was "one of us" and through many trials and learning from mistakes he eventually rose to the rank of true hero.


Like now, over in GLC, I believe he and others of the Corps decided against execution of prisoners without taking them to a fair trail first.

Cool. I've been reading GL but have not yet read the GLC stuff yet.

How..how..how dare you. I dunno. That Kyle-gay-bashing issue was legendary. I personally loved it, speaking not only as a gay person but also as a person of sensibility.


I know...it's not about the gay-bashing though...I've had many close friends who were gay/bi/lesbian and I strongly oppose all forms of intolerance and persecution, and as a member of a visible minority I've endured more than my share. I don't in any way condone what the gay-basher did. But even though I respect Kyle's dedication to his friend and to justice, I don't like that he used the ring in the way he did.


In case you haven't noticed, that storyarc gave Winnick a GLAAD award.


Oh, I'm not knocking the story or Winnick's writing, I'd been enjoying his run up to that point, and I'm happy he tackled the gay-bashing issue. But that prison torture scene really turned me off and I didn't continue reading the title after that because I didn't want to see more of the same. From a gut emotional level I understand what Kyle did, but I don't approve of it.


And, yes, he did torture an inmate for information. But that's 'cause Kyle's screws up like everyone else.

Sure, that's fine, if it was part of his character growth and he later realized it was an abuse of power (and somewhat cruel), and didn't repeat it, then that's laudable.

So as someone who seems to know his character better than I do, would you say that it's no longer something he would do, now that he's matured?

[Raharu]

I would say yes, I think. Like I gave with the GLC example, but I can't say I remember him torturing anybody or anything in recent memory. The last thing I remember him doing something like that is when he shot Major Force's head off into space (or something that) after a big fight with him, but Force is nearly immortal if memory serves so he's kind of an exceptional case I guess.

[Mobey Wee]

If you're enjoying Johns' GL, I would definitely suggest GLC as well. I've finally found another DC writer I enjoy in Tomasi (sp?).

I've never heard about the torture scene, that's actually slightly disturbing. A cop, breaking into a jail cell, so he can bring down some cruel and unusual punishment on somebody already convicted and serving their sentence? Just curious, does the word torture apply? Did he use his ring to throw the guy around a bit, or was he torturing him? Either way, I still like Kyle, I just don't really want to read a solo book about him.

[SMKSPY]

Yes, I think it was early, a 90's story. That's good to hear that his character development arc has been in the upward direction. I can see then why his fans like him so much...he was "one of us" and through many trials and learning from mistakes he eventually rose to the rank of true hero.


That storyline is from late 2002, and I think the fallout of it led him to runaway to Space so that he could find himself.

[Alex L]

I'm not sure what story you are specifically referencing, as I don't really remember it, but I assume it was fairly early on? The thing about Kyle is that he grew as a character into a hero, he didn't start out as a hero that always took the 'right' route. One of the main reasons people didn't like him at first (outside the whole Emerald Twilight situation) was because he was somewhat silly, whiny, and selfish in the first bit of his career, but he really grew over time to a great hero.


That was significantly later on; definitely in the last third of his time headlining GL.

How..how..how dare you. I dunno. That Kyle-gay-bashing issue was legendary. I personally loved it, speaking not only as a gay person but also as a person of sensibility.

In case you haven't noticed, that storyarc gave Winnick a GLAAD award.

And, yes, he did torture an inmate for information. But that's 'cause Kyle's screws up like everyone else. And anyone in that situation would act the same way.

I personally disliked it, but maybe that's 'cuz I live in SF, I've read gay-penned fiction in school and had talks given by gay people in middle school so nothing about this seems particularly revolutionary to me personally.

The whole storyline came across like an after-school special.

[show name]

If you're enjoying Johns' GL, I would definitely suggest GLC as well. I've finally found another DC writer I enjoy in Tomasi (sp?).


Okay, I'll check GLC out.

Just curious, does the word torture apply? Did he use his ring to throw the guy around a bit, or was he torturing him?

Unfortunately the word torture does apply. I won't go into details as it was a bit unpleasant and I also don't want to paint Kyle as a villain, but what he did was in fact painful and methodical, and it did long-term damage to the guy, who was immobilized the whole time. But Kyle was not cold or sadistic about it by any means...he was clearly depicted as being in a state of extreme rage and anguish IIRC.

That storyline is from late 2002, and I think the fallout of it led him to runaway to Space so that he could find himself.

Interesting. Maybe I'll read that to balance out my view of Kyle. What's the name of that flight into space story arc?

[SMKSPY]

Interesting. Maybe I'll read that to balance out my view of Kyle. What's the name of that flight into space story arc?

I don't really remember. I know the issue that Kyle's friend got beat up was 154 (the title's run end at 181), and it also happened around the time of the Obsidian Age arc in JLA, which left other emotion scars on him.

[dupersuper]

How..how..how dare you. I dunno. That Kyle-gay-bashing issue was legendary. I personally loved it, speaking not only as a gay person but also as a person of sensibility.

In case you haven't noticed, that storyarc gave Winnick a GLAAD award.

And, yes, he did torture an inmate for information. But that's 'cause Kyle's screws up like everyone else. And anyone in that situation would act the same way.

I don't have that GL issue, but given the way Hals group just treated the guy they thought was Prometheus in Cry for Justice, it's not like he can claim the torture high ground anymore.

[Cardinal!]

I have liked Hal on occasion in the past, but I also don't particularly care for the current "OMG I hope he asks me to the prom!" huffing up that Geoff Johns likes to give him. On the other hand, I've found him to be fairly likable in other portrayals (New Frontier). Overall, Hal's alright, but I have a pretty long list of Lanterns that I rank above him. I'll take Kyle, Kilowog, Alan Scott, Arisia, Soranik, Bzzdt, or Sodam over Hal any day of the week.

[dupersuper]

Its already started. Just wait till the movie gets out.

The movies can use whichever incarnation they like, no matter who's in the comics.

[Syrant]

As someone who just got into Green Lantern, I don't hate Hal, or anything. First impressions, his personality is a little dull. There's nothing about him that really pulls me in.

I just jumped in a little before Blackest Night, and I've also been reading the Corps titles to get to know the characters. Reading about Hal is interesting to me, but because of the situations he's in. I'm not really attached to his character. I've actually become more attached to Soranik Natu and Larfleeze then him.

Kyle would have to be my favorite. I actually like the hated Guy Gardener, though. So my opinion can probably be taken with a grain of salt.

[Raharu]

That storyline is from late 2002, and I think the fallout of it led him to runaway to Space so that he could find himself.

Oh, I remember the whole space thing, but I can't really recall this particular story. What exactly did he do to the guy?

[Hullababy]

The movies can use whichever incarnation they like, no matter who's in the comics.

Its already been confirmed that the movie's going to feature Hal.

[show name]

I don't have that GL issue, but given the way Hals group just treated the guy they thought was Prometheus in Cry for Justice, it's not like he can claim the torture high ground anymore.

I haven't read "Cry for Justice", but if what you say is true that is somewhat sad and disappointing.

[Hullababy]

I haven't read "Cry for Justice", but if what you say is true that is somewhat sad and disappointing.

Anything in Cry for Justice shouldn't be considered canon. Just my opinion.

[dupersuper]

Its already been confirmed that the movie's going to feature Hal.

That's not my point; I'm saying returning to "iconic" versions in the books isn't needed because the movies and tv shows use whichever they like anyway, so that's a sucky argument for returning Hal. If the movie's a big hit, then using Hal in the books might add to the bump in comic sales, but it won't affect movie grosses 1 wit.

[Freakzeek]

I like Hal, i just often feel that his personality suffers for the sake of the plot

[the henchman]

i was reading this thread and two things popped into my mind.

1. i like hal jordan way more than kyle.

and

2. why do people think kyle's gay? hasn't he bagged a gang of super hero chicks? is it because he's an artist? is it a weird case of wishful thinking? i pick up more of a gay vibe from jerry "i'm thin, i'm neat, i'm in my 30s" seinfeld than kyle.

[Hullababy]

That's not my point; I'm saying returning to "iconic" versions in the books isn't needed because the movies and tv shows use whichever they like anyway, so that's a sucky argument for returning Hal. If the movie's a big hit, then using Hal in the books might add to the bump in comic sales, but it won't affect movie grosses 1 wit.

:confused:

Rebirth started in 2004. Whats that got to do with the movie ? :confused:

Besides what I was saying was the movie will add to people's knowledge of who Hal Jordan is. Didn't Batman become a household name after the 60s tv show or the Tim Burton movie ? Thats what I am saying. Other than Batman and Superman, other heroes have never had much public exposure other than animated shows. So I think the movie will help in letting more people be aware of who the Green Lantern is. Never did I say it will affect comic book sales or that using him in the comics will affect movie grosses.

[oanswat]

I love Hal. He's Captain Kirk and Han Solo rolled into one. He's got the most powerfull weapon in the universe but he doesn't need that to get a threesome with huntress and lady blackhawk. He's fearless, capable and he knows it. He's not arrogant, he's just confident.

Kyles great, he's the most creative and likable of the GL's but when things go haywire you don't want to run to kyle, you go to Hal. Hal calls the shots.

Batman and Lanterns don't get along, nuff said on that subject I think.

As for the ringless flying, as far as I can recall he hasn't flown without the rign since the POW incident.

[oanswat]

No, that was just there to pander to fanboys who were all chuffed that 'their' Green Lantern was back.
And frankly, yeah, Geoff Johns does write Hal as a bit of an 'alpha dog dick', but that's only because he's a terrible writer who can't write someone who's brave (sometimes to the point of recklessness) without making him into some sort of Dexter St.Jock caricature.

But then again, with everyone complaining that their heroes are 'too perfect', we're seeing it everywhere. Anyone with a minor character defect is having it transformed into a crippling psychosis.

Batman, who was once a highly disciplined and well-trained guy with a couple of abandonment issues is now a grim, semi-fascistic sociopath.

Same for Hal. Because fans today can't just accept that someone is brave, strong willed, forthright and heroic (because that's 'too perfect') today's writers have to turn him into some sort of preening alpha male dick.

Be careful what you wish for, I guess...

He's the MOST willfull person on this planet and probably in the entire sector of space and you don't think it makes sense that he has an extreme personality?

[oanswat]

Let's look at Hal as opposed to the DC Big Three.

The Trinity are the highest of high. They're powerful, but they're not infallble. They all make mistakes and we love them for it. But they make CRUCIAL choices - they don't do it based on ego alone.

Superman is the cream of the crop. He's the legend all superheroes aspire to be. AND, he's also super-nice. His holier-than-thou attitude pisses of a lot of people (Smallville) especially his no-kill policy. Yet, it's through this that makes him Superman. You remember the main reason the Batman movie was more succesful than the Superman one? Because most people don't want to see a person who's not only physically better than them - but morally too.

Batman's screwed up BIG TIME. But he's a strategist. Brother Eye was there for a reason. The files he had on JLA (Tower of Babel) were there for a reason. He's bitchy for a reason - he's the goddamn Batman. He defeats metahumans as an ordinary person.

Wonder Woman's a warrior princess/ambassador of peace. She also murdered Maxwell Lord. But it wasn't an ego thing - it was because it was necessary.

So Superman doesn't kill even in extreme circumstances, Batman builds countermeasure for every superhero and Wonder Woman murdered Maxwell Lord.



...and Hal Jordan doesn't wear his ring when he flies. I JUST DON'T GET IT. It's stupid. He doesn't seem like...a member of the Trinity.


It's just like Superman using the power-robbing Kryptonite when he goes into his Clark Kent identity just because he doesn't want to be Super all the time. Or Batman putting himself in an amnesiac trance to forget his martial arts moves when he's Bruce Wayne.

Still remember Linda Carter's Wonder Woman? She had to transform! And of course the aftermath of Who is Wonder Woman where she's powerless as Diana Prince. That was silly.

None of them are thrill seakers. batman plans his plan sessions, clark drinks milk and diana is a princess. Hal strapps himself to a rocket to see if it'll explode... for a living.

It's not stupid, he's just not afraid. He knows it's possible but he's interested in living life rather than playing it safe. He works hard and he plays hard then he goes out and bangs a bunch of chicks. After that he hangs out with his buddy who has no super powers yet fights crime anyway. He's like the Fonze for god's sake, what's not to love?

[Hullababy]

None of them are thrill seakers. batman plans his plan sessions, clark drinks milk and diana is a princess. Hal strapps himself to a rocket to see if it'll explode... for a living.

It's not stupid, he's just not afraid. He knows it's possible but he's interested in living life rather than playing it safe. He works hard and he plays hard then he goes out and bangs a bunch of chicks. After that he hangs out with his buddy who has no super powers yet fights crime anyway. He's like the Fonze for god's sake, what's not to love?

This man speaks the truth.

[oanswat]

As someone who just got into Green Lantern, I don't hate Hal, or anything. First impressions, his personality is a little dull. There's nothing about him that really pulls me in.

I just jumped in a little before Blackest Night, and I've also been reading the Corps titles to get to know the characters. Reading about Hal is interesting to me, but because of the situations he's in. I'm not really attached to his character. I've actually become more attached to Soranik Natu and Larfleeze then him.

Kyle would have to be my favorite. I actually like the hated Guy Gardener, though. So my opinion can probably be taken with a grain of salt.

The thing about Guy is that he used to be a total douche. He's matured a lot since he got the ring back. He's become a much more likable Guy.

[Hullababy]

The thing about Guy is that he used to be a total douche. He's matured a lot since he got the ring back. He's become a much more likable Guy.

I 100% agree.

The Guy Gardner before Rebirth was a complete A grade jerk. The present Guy is a much more likeable version of the character.

[ryerye17]

I liked Guy in Giffen-DeMatteis :)