Amazons and Families

[WorstThingUS]

One very interesting thing Gail Simone has touched on in two mediums has always been in the back of my mind in regards to Amazons: having children (mainly because every other story seems to have half the Amazons getting wiped out). We know the Bana-Mighdall were mortal so they had no choice, but for the women of Themyscria was it worth the price of immortality and being free of male domination? The loss of children and possibly a husband? In the Wonder Woman animated movie, it's made clear that what seemed like a good idea a few thousand years ago might not hold up. Also, in the book we learn the yearning for children never left a great many Amazons who carried around wooden totems for the children they would never have. Also, when scattered around the world, we saw a few leaving husbands. Now we have Zeus ordering marriages. Taking for granted that, in the end, the Amazons will hopefully be free of Zeus again, how many would choose to still pursue that end? We know not every Amazon wants either a man or children, but still might. Is there room on Themyscria for them?

[SJNeal]

This was one of the more fascinating things to come out of "Rise of the Olympian" (not that the whole thing wasn't fantastic!)

I really look forward to seeing where Gail goes with this; we've seen Themyscira/the Amazons wiped out/disappear before, but we've never seen them forced into this kind of situation. Should be interesting.

[Gail Simone]

This is a great question.

I think, and I want to be delicate here, but this is one of the few situations where Wonder Woman having mostly male writers did the series a bit of a disservice. Not that the guys didn't write wonderful stories, they did, but as a female writer, when I think of an island without men, it's not the lack of sex that first strikes me as something that would bend the Amazon viewpoint (because you don't need a man, or even anyone else,really, for that). It's the lack of children, not just for the moment, but forever, for thousands of years.

Nothing has ever been said that the DESIRE to have children was taken from the Amazons. So I think some, like Alkyone, would see the potential for endless jealousy of Hippolyta's child. MOST of the Amazons, in my vision of them, consider Diana their daughter, not their sister (which is why I can't see Diana sleeping with an Amazon from Theymiscira).

The whittle babies are, in Mark Waid's words, the scariest thing that's ever been in the book, and I think they ARE a little scary and horribly tragic. They are a symbol of what the Amazons have never been allowed to have, and provide scant comfort.

I'm a mother...there is something tremendously tribal about the entire experience. I think the Amazons have replaced motherhood with a lot of ritual and art and aggression. But it's not the same.

[aegisbearer]

This is a great question.

I think, and I want to be delicate here, but this is one of the few situations where Wonder Woman having mostly male writers did the series a bit of a disservice. Not that the guys didn't write wonderful stories, they did, but as a female writer, when I think of an island without men, it's not the lack of sex that first strikes me as something that would bend the Amazon viewpoint (because you don't need a man, or even anyone else,really, for that). It's the lack of children, not just for the moment, but forever, for thousands of years.

If Wonder Woman is leave any legacy to the world, it will be in how the children grow up having been influenced by her, whether they are Amazon children or those from Man's World. This topic hasn't been broached before, and I am excited to see how you handle this. Speaking as a gay man who would love the chance to be a father, including children as an element of what is lacking on Themyscira seems to be a logical progression.


Nothing has ever been said that the DESIRE to have children was taken from the Amazons. So I think some, like Alkyone, would see the potential for endless jealousy of Hippolyta's child. MOST of the Amazons, in my vision of them, consider Diana their daughter, not their sister (which is why I can't see Diana sleeping with an Amazon from Theymiscira).

The Amazons have been portrayed as sisters of Diana, and she has called them "sister", so seeing them as mother-figures to her does change the status quo a bit. I never thought about the idea of Diana sleeping with an Amazon from Themyscira (if anything, it would be someone from Man's World), but that thought does bring us into some uncharted territory.


The whittle babies are, in Mark Waid's words, the scariest thing that's ever been in the book, and I think they ARE a little scary and horribly tragic. They are a symbol of what the Amazons have never been allowed to have, and provide scant comfort.

I'm a mother...there is something tremendously tribal about the entire experience. I think the Amazons have replaced motherhood with a lot of ritual and art and aggression. But it's not the same.

Gail, the whittle babies (which I am sure will be seen at some point) do have that tragic element, especially to a race of women who have rarely had positive experiences with men, let alone a relationship where they could have children. I think the animated movie touched upon it too, when Persephone tells Hippolyte that the Amazons may be warriors, but they are women, too. I think when Alkyone had Gennes killed, I cried a little. Being denied even the simulation of parenthood is horrible tragic, and seeing that it had brought Gennes to imagining the doll was real made me realize how important it is for these women to have children.

If the Amazons truly want to set the example to the world, it's not as warriors; it's as mothers.

[vanityman]

i'm surprised the amazons didn't take on pets as a replacement for children; there have to be some crazy cat women on the island somewhere, no?

[shanejayell]

Is it still canon that the Amazons adopted children brought to the island? I seem to recall that from Perez's run....

[MinaRho1]

i'm surprised the amazons didn't take on pets as a replacement for children; there have to be some crazy cat women on the island somewhere, no?

i thought Poly was nearing cat-lady territory when she was feeding the mythical themysciran beasts. Leave it to the Amazons to make cat-lady animal hoarding seem cool.

[cockrumfan]

I think we saw something very similar in the Priest story from 137-138 with Hippolytia, as far as Amazons in the American family idea goes. I think it'll be great to see explored, and, quite honestly, I'd love to see an opposites attract situation with one of the Amazons, where they fall for the Ted Kord type of guy.

[Shatagni]

Is it still canon that the Amazons adopted children brought to the island? I seem to recall that from Perez's run....

Your talking about the "Send Forth" custom. They do care of shipwrecked baby girls but don't really adopt them. They nurse them, bless them with one of their amazonian gifts and then send them off to hopefully be adopted by someone else.

I suppose if we were to fit them into canon, This was the closest the Amazons came to paternity.

[Wonder Watcher]

I don't think that bit of canon fits in with Gail's denial of motherhood take on the Amazons as it would partially offset the problem - although add more pain when they had to give those children up again, for ever.

Cutting out the lost babies does undo an important bit of the Perez reboot with respect to Julia Kapetellis but Gail's already started playing with the origin story so at this stage it's hard toreally knows what in and what's out.

I too find the idea of Diana sleeping with one of the Amazon's slightly odd.

I think the unrequited desire for children has been partially expressed in the importance of Diana to all the Amazons but definitely not as explicity as we now see. The jealousy angle is definitely new.

I'm not sure 'events' will allow it to happen (new Amazon babies) but I think there's room on Themyscira for children. It'd certainly take some of the pressure of Diana but at the same time remove some of her uniqueness - the only child of the Amazons.

There'd be an invevitable knock on effect that she'd no longer be the obssessive centre of every Amazon's attention, although I'm sure she'd cope with that.

[CarolStrick]

Back in the Perez run, an unknown number of Themies left the island to explore/emigrate to the outside world. If they'd wanted, they could have found husbands, had and/or adopted kids, whatever.

The Banas kept their menfolk enslaved under hideous conditions. Each and every Bana is a naturally-born child. The Bana have family units.

In the Jimenez era, we saw men immigrating to Paradise Island and becoming citizens. Probably some marriages and/or liaisons developed from that. Donna informed us that "dozens" of children were adopted by the Amazons.

This idea was literally dropped during the Rucka era, never to be referred to again. By anyone.

Thus I think that even before the Amazon Diaspora the situation about Amazons and babies had vastly changed from what it was the day Diana was born and the Circle was imprisoned.