x-men forever 7 preview

[steve2275]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=3344&disp=table

[steve2275]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=3335&disp=table

[steve2275]

.......................

[darknessatnoon]

Only one foot print? This is like Robinson Crusoe!

[creaky]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=3335&disp=table

That's kind of adorable.

[steve2275]

That's kind of adorable.
i got your adorable right http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=3338&disp=table there

[timbox]

Don't be mean, Hank.

[steve2275]

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/enlarge/WOKRULE001_int_Page_4 the starjammers

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/enlarge/WOKRULE001_int_Page_6 luna and crystal
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/enlarge/WOKRULE001_int_Page_7 luna and crystal

[RolandJP]

Awesome, Steve.


Marvel Super Hero Squad FTW!!

[AcesX1X]

"hank, what are you thinking?"

[timbox]

I can't get over that panel with Jean and Xavier combining their psychic powers. I think for the power combo to be even more effective, they should touch each other's temples instead of their own. I’m surprised that Xavier hasn’t already suggested this.

[steve2275]

I can't get over that panel with Jean and Xavier combining their psychic powers. I think for the power combo to be even more effective, they should touch each other's temples instead of their own. I’m surprised that Xavier hasn’t already suggested this.
a mind meld of sorts :tongue:

[worstblogever]

Only one foot print? This is like Robinson Crusoe!

I wouldn't be too scared. Even a giant with only one leg still has to abide by the rules of "one legged in an ass-kicking contest".

I can't get over that panel with Jean and Xavier combining their psychic powers. I think for the power combo to be even more effective, they should touch each other's temples instead of their own. I’m surprised that Xavier hasn’t already suggested this.

Also, Xavier's epic eyebrows have returned.


Honestly, this preview isn't too bad, although I admit, when the SHIELD agent says, "My God, it's HUGE!" I couldn't help but think, "That's what she said."

[Majinoaw]

Filthy Mutie - where are you so the Claremontian speak can begin.

This is the kind of issue from Claremont that I usually dodge. Sometimes the flashback issues sometimes go down like horsepills. 268 was the exception though for all you little uncle fans outthere.

[Filthy Mutie]

I can't wait to find out how mountains interfere with telepathy. Are they magic mountains!?

[Filthy Mutie]

I figured it out! The anomaly was found here, between Superman: The Ride and the Tasmanian Devil.

http://www.coasterforce.com/images/SFMM%20Map.jpg

[Majinoaw]

I can't wait to find out how mountains interfere with telepathy. Are they magic mountains!?

Moutains block the transmission of psychic energy.

[Filthy Mutie]

What the devil!?

http://www.themeparkreview.com/sfmm0227/sfmm16.jpg

[worstblogever]

Moutains block the transmission of psychic energy.

That's odd. Considering the number of times psychics have contacted each other in the Marvel Universe on like Wundagore Mountain, or in the middle of the Alps when looking for Factor Three.

Or when Professor X contacted Tessa to come help him when he was in the mountains of the Himalayas after fighting Lucifer.

[quillero]

That's odd. Considering the number of times psychics have contacted each other in the Marvel Universe on like Wundagore Mountain, or in the middle of the Alps when looking for Factor Three.

Or when Professor X contacted Tessa to come help him when he was in the mountains of the Himalayas after fighting Lucifer.

616 Xavier had transmission towers installed all over the globe.

[worstblogever]

616 Xavier had transmission towers installed all over the globe.

That clever bald bastard.

[Majinoaw]

That's odd. Considering the number of times psychics have contacted each other in the Marvel Universe on like Wundagore Mountain, or in the middle of the Alps when looking for Factor Three.

Or when Professor X contacted Tessa to come help him when he was in the mountains of the Himalayas after fighting Lucifer.

Or the number of old mutants...

[Goshin]

Well psychics in the 616 switched to the verizon telepathic network some time ago

[worstblogever]

Or the number of old mutants...

Or adamantium being poisonous... that pile just keeps getting bigger.

[quillero]

Or adamantium being poisonous... that pile just keeps getting bigger.

...and smellier.

[worstblogever]

...and smellier.

Heh. Yeah. At this point, we're averaging a major continuity error more than every other issue. (the other being the status of Xavier's legs after Muir Island Saga).

[Majinoaw]

Heh. Yeah. At this point, we're averaging a major continuity error more than every other issue. (the other being the status of Xavier's legs after Muir Island Saga).

Bout two an issue roughly. The Muir Island Saga probably never happened.

[Leogam]

im really not feeling this new concept that the more mutants use thier powers, the less time they have to live in thier lifespan. and the idea that thier are no older mutants in the world past 30 yrs of age. I much prefered the original notion that the older in age mutants had got, the more thier powers would decrease over time

[ZNOP]

Well, I'm still wondering why Franklin Richards is still 8 years old. It's been what:confused: 40+ years now?

[soul_eater]

im really not feeling this new concept that the more mutants use thier powers, the less time they have to live in thier lifespan. and the idea that thier are no older mutants in the world past 30 yrs of age. I much prefered the original notion that the older in age mutants had got, the more thier powers would decrease over time

I didn't like the reveal, it feels stupid, not sure what the point is, rather than give them pressure and make their life even more miserable.

Maybe it’s also because he wants to limit their powers? They won’t use their power all the time, now they will use them with care.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Only one foot print? This is like Robinson Crusoe!

More like Pynchon's "Vineland"

Looks good. I like the artist (and I never bothered to look at the credits so I have no idea who it is)

[DeadXMan]

I wouldn't be too scared. Even a giant with only one leg still has to abide by the rules of "one legged in an ass-kicking contest".


Also, Xavier's epic eyebrows have returned.


Honestly, this preview isn't too bad, although I admit, when the SHIELD agent says, "My God, it's HUGE!" I couldn't help but think, "That's what she said."

it will fry the compition with it's plasma canons.:wink:

[boodha]

More like Pynchon's "Vineland"

Looks good. I like the artist (and I never bothered to look at the credits so I have no idea who it is)

Yes, I agree, the art is pretty good. I hope that guy will do more issues for Forever.

[The Thunderbird]

Am I the only who noticed that the length of Jean's shirt suddenly changed for no reason?

[Blade X]

Or adamantium being poisonous... that pile just keeps getting bigger.

Again, adamantium is not poisonous. If it was, then both Hammerhead and Bullseye would be fead.

[DeadXMan]

error! error!

[DeadXMan]

Theres a vast difference between Kitty having one claw from Logan having his skeleton bonded to a hundred pounds of it. :rolleyes:

and thunderbird Stop looking at Jean's chest.:mad:

[worstblogever]

Again, adamantium is not poisonous. If it was, then both Hammerhead and Bullseye would be fead.

Y'know, except for all the times that Logan gets his powers taken away, and starts getting poisoned by it. Or when the Weapon X people have to point out that they chose him to have the adamantium bonded because his healing factor would compensate, and were it anyone else, he'd die.

So other than those times...

[Stephane Garrelie]

Y'know, except for all the times that Logan gets his powers taken away, and starts getting poisoned by it. Or when the Weapon X people have to point out that they chose him to have the adamantium bonded because his healing factor would compensate, and were it anyone else, he'd die.

So other than those times...

Not under Claremont. Not before 1991. What you got before this date is Logan so badly hurt that his healling factor can't follow, not adamantium poisoning.

[worstblogever]

Not under Claremont. Not before 1991. What you got before this date is Logan so badly hurt that his healling factor can't follow, not adamantium poisoning.



Well, even without that concept being introduced yet (even if Barry Windsor Smith's depiction of his body having to counter the adamantium in Weapon X was released in 1991)... he's still clocking in with at least a continuity error every other issue.

Xavier's legs, "no old mutants", and this latest, "Mountains blocking telepathy" crap.

[ExodusCloak]

Xavier's legs, "no old mutants", and this latest, "Mountains blocking telepathy" crap.

Claremont can't remember his continuity one issue ago (Eg Kitty and Storms eye) how do you expect him to remember all those other things.

[worstblogever]

Claremont can't remember his continuity one issue ago (Eg Kitty and Storms eye) how do you expect him to remember all those other things.

*shrugs*

Although, it does make me wonder if all the years he's been complaining about "editorial interference", it was people doing their job, and stopping him from pulling as many boners as this.

[ExodusCloak]

*shrugs*

Although, it does make me wonder if all the years he's been complaining about "editorial interference", it was people doing their job, and stopping him from pulling as many boners as this.

Not a good enough job, remember Psylockes telekinesis she was written at first not to have any fine control? She then ends up in Exiles and can alter herself molecularly to become invisible.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31849&KW=marvel&PN=0&TPN=7

Originally posted by John Byrne

Can a fan say that a writer is getting the characters wrong when they were largely his characters in the first place?

Sure. Take NEXT MEN, which are indisputably my characters (whereas it must be noted that, especially with the X-Men, Chris has to share). If and when JBNM returns, if I portray Jack as a swinging playboy and Tony as an indecisive klutz, I would expect readers to respond with "Huh? What happened?" And if there is no reasonable answer forthcoming -- if there is no in context reason for their dramatic shifts in personality -- then you could most definitely tell me I am getting them wrong!

Here's a thing about Chris that used to make me crazy when we were working together: he is in no way a slave to continuity, not even his own. In another thread I mentioned how important scenes were sometimes lost, because Chris had already done them in his head, so when he came to script the pages he wrote them as something else. I grew to dread the phrase "That's how I felt when I wrote it." It's the same thing with characterization. He will write the characters as suits his stories, not the stories as suits the characters.

And, like I said, given that this is the guy who piloted the X-Books to unprecedented heights, it's hard to argue that it doesn't work for him!

[worstblogever]

Interesting bit of insight there, E.C. Thanks.

[Blade X]

Y'know, except for all the times that Logan gets his powers taken away, and starts getting poisoned by it. Or when the Weapon X people have to point out that they chose him to have the adamantium bonded because his healing factor would compensate, and were it anyone else, he'd die.

So other than those times...

Remember, CC and Byrne's version of Wolverine had every single bone in his body replaced by adamantium, which would definitely kill a normal human being. Bullseye and Hammerhead have parts of their skeleton replaced with adamantium, and they haven't suffered any kind of adamantium poisoning. So CC going Kitty a single adamantium claw would not be poisonous to her.

[Blade X]

*shrugs*

Although, it does make me wonder if all the years he's been complaining about "editorial interference", it was people doing their job, and stopping him from pulling as many boners as this.

And yet, editorial didn't stop CC from making Bishop Aborigine (and yes I know that wasn't a technically a mistake or retcon, but it was a pretty stupid and unnecessary, IMO). Hell, the cuurent editorial regime at Marvel allows most of their creators to ignore continuity these days.

[Filthy Mutie]

And yet, editorial didn't stop CC from making Bishop Aborigine (and yes I know that wasn't a technically a mistake or retcon, but it was a pretty stupid and unnecessary, IMO). Hell, the cuurent editorial regime at Marvel allows most of their creators to ignore continuity these days.

I think it's a little of both, as always, but I get the feeling where CC is concerned the editors just try to nod and get through their day. He's a crazy, wild-eyed pseudo-scientist and he's hated on "them" publicly for so long now--I wouldn't want to be his handler, either.

I'd love to be an editor for Marvel.

[ExodusCloak]

Remember, CC and Byrne's version of Wolverine had every single bone in his body replaced by adamantium, which would definitely kill a normal human being. Bullseye and Hammerhead have parts of their skeleton replaced with adamantium, and they haven't suffered any kind of adamantium poisoning. So CC going Kitty a single adamantium claw would not be poisonous to her.

Replaced or bonded to?

[worstblogever]

And yet, editorial didn't stop CC from making Bishop Aborigine (and yes I know that wasn't a technically a mistake or retcon, but it was a pretty stupid and unnecessary, IMO). Hell, the cuurent editorial regime at Marvel allows most of their creators to ignore continuity these days.

Then what was the relevance to mention it?

And, if you weren't aware, as relates to the last statement, I don't just lay this stuff at CC's feet. I've spent most of the past week in other threads mentioning how "Utopia" has somehow shown that Cyclops is so amazing of a leader, he can devise a strategy where Asteroid M can be salvaged from the sun, to be pulled off the floor of the Pacific Ocean and used.

As bad as that is, the sheer number of errors in Forever blows my mind.

[creaky]

Remember, CC and Byrne's version of Wolverine had every single bone in his body replaced by adamantium, which would definitely kill a normal human being. Bullseye and Hammerhead have parts of their skeleton replaced with adamantium, and they haven't suffered any kind of adamantium poisoning. So CC going Kitty a single adamantium claw would not be poisonous to her.

I'm more puzzled by how attaining a single claw from Logan causes her to become Logan.

[Filthy Mutie]

I'm more puzzled by how attaining a single claw from Logan causes her to become Logan.

When ever I carry sharp objects, I feel like a grizzled Canadian samurai.

[the Hornet]

Some comments -

1. Except for the Jean-Logan retcon, I am fine with everything else and letting CC run with it (since we still have another version in 616)

2. CC's fleshing out of Bishop was what really made me like him and felt he became more interesting.

3. Funny how with the current team in comparision with Claremont's 80's team -

Lil 'ro is like the new Kitty Pryde
Kitty is the new Rachel Summers or maybe even Rogue
Sabretooth is the new Wolverine

[Disco Jess Minge]

Some comments -

1. Except for the Jean-Logan retcon, I am fine with everything else and letting CC run with it (since we still have another version in 616)

2. CC's fleshing out of Bishop was what really made me like him and felt he became more interesting.

3. Funny how with the current team in comparision with Claremont's 80's team -

Lil 'ro is like the new Kitty Pryde
Kitty is the new Rachel Summers or maybe even Rogue
Sabretooth is the new Wolverine
That's not coincidence, Claremont is just lazy.

[sherlockbones]

Well, even without that concept being introduced yet (even if Barry Windsor Smith's depiction of his body having to counter the adamantium in Weapon X was released in 1991)... he's still clocking in with at least a continuity error every other issue.

Xavier's legs, "no old mutants", and this latest, "Mountains blocking telepathy" crap.

telepathy is by far the most plotdevice controlled superpower. it´s range differs from cosmic to 200 miles depending on the stories need. i am pretty sure it was once canon that on earth xavier had a range below 1000 km to justify cerebro and to point out the effects of magneto´s tampering with earths magnetic field.

over the years i arrenged myself with this necessity. what stretches my believe much further than the range factor is the ability to simply "block" telepathy.
that wonderful technology is in the meantime courtsy of every low-budget character across the mu and renders this power to near uselessness. mostly it is only to interogate captured villans or force weaknesses out of heroes.

mental conditioning vs telepathy, if told right, is much more believeable cause it requires actual preparations, but wonder gizmo has degenerated telepaths to a point where i consider them boring

[worstblogever]

telepathy is by far the most plotdevice controlled superpower. it´s range differs from cosmic to 200 miles depending on the stories need. i am pretty sure it was once canon that on earth xavier had a range below 1000 km to justify cerebro and to point out the effects of magneto´s tampering with earths magnetic field.

Remind me of how Xavier and Lilandra first met? That's leaning more to the cosmic range. And hasn't Xavier contacted his students across the Atlantic before? Not to mention, my earlier comments about him having no problem using telepathy through some of the most famous mountain ranges in the world?

It's a problem now, because the problem could be solved too easily by telepathy now. And Claremont's too lazy to think of a better reason than "Erm... the mountains are blocking it." Weak.

[sherlockbones]

Remind me of how Xavier and Lilandra first met? That's leaning more to the cosmic range. And hasn't Xavier contacted his students across the Atlantic before? Not to mention, my earlier comments about him having no problem using telepathy through some of the most famous mountain ranges in the world?

It's a problem now, because the problem could be solved too easily by telepathy now. And Claremont's too lazy to think of a better reason than "Erm... the mountains are blocking it." Weak.

errr, you are just strenghtening my point. the xavier/lilandra thing says cosmic, but monthly publishing says no. after being halfway ok after issue 200 he could ve atleast send a short "don´t worry i´m fine" to his x-men

[Blade X]

Replaced or bonded to?

In the case of Bullseye, bonded. In the case of Hammerhead, adamamated plate in his head.

[Raptor]

Hate the art on the Hulk team up book.

[Blade X]

Then what was the relevance to mention it?

And, if you weren't aware, as relates to the last statement, I don't just lay this stuff at CC's feet. I've spent most of the past week in other threads mentioning how "Utopia" has somehow shown that Cyclops is so amazing of a leader, he can devise a strategy where Asteroid M can be salvaged from the sun, to be pulled off the floor of the Pacific Ocean and used.

As bad as that is, the sheer number of errors in Forever blows my mind.

I mentioned it because for all intents and purposes, Bishop was created to be and written as an African American.

And just so you know, CC has gone on record as saying that he will ignore some of his own continuity in XMF. At least he has forewarned us that this will happen, unlike some other creator writers. And since this is an out of continuity series set in it's own continuity, I don't have that big a problem with it. that being said, CC and his editors should try to keep the continuity consistent in XMF.

[Blade X]

That's not coincidence, Claremont is just lazy.

Because every other writer comes up with unique and original character personality types for every character.

[Blade X]

Not to mention, my earlier comments about him having no problem using telepathy through some of the most famous mountain ranges in the world?

It's a problem now, because the problem could be solved too easily by telepathy now. And Claremont's too lazy to think of a better reason than "Erm... the mountains are blocking it." Weak.

Did you ever think that it's easier for him to make telepathic contact with someone in a mountain range if that person happens to be in the same general area as he is. Especially if that person also has telepathic powers.

And yes, the whole "mountains is interfering with telepathy" thing is a plot device because the problem would have been too easily solved with telepathy.

[DeadXMan]

what are people bitching about chuck having trouble connecting to three members of SHIELD ( who are train to resist mind readers and/or uses devices to block telepathy) Thousands of miles away with no help from cerebro?


and perhaps it's not the mountains that are interfering, but what is onit.:wink:

[Blade X]

and perhaps it's not the mountains that are interfering, but what is onit.:wink:

I was thinking the same exact thing, and I was going to actually say that in one of my posts, but I didn't want to give the usual suspects more potential amunition to bash CC by saying something like "well he could have had either or Prof X say that something was interfering with their telepathy instead of specifically stating that it was the mountains". Remember, many (not all) of the people who hate CC's recent stories are looking for every little thing to bash his writing (which they have every right to do).

[peopleofpaper]

I like XMF. Why do they have their new crappy costumes on all of the covers but wear the old 90s ones inside the book most of the time?

[End of Time]

and perhaps it's not the mountains that are interfering, but what is onit.:wink:

As it stands now, I think it's amazing that people seem to think that it's the mountains themselves that are the problem. Remember people, Claremont is verbose... and he made it more than clear through the dialogue that there's something wrong with that stretch of land.

The other characters don't seem able to shut up about the weirdness there.

It's strange that people seem to have lost the ability to read... usually they bitch and moan about how much exposition there is, but for some strange reason they've all gone blind and seem to think that there's barely any text in those preview-pages. Claremont going for minimalistic? I think not. Read the freaking dialogue.

[ExodusCloak]

I was thinking the same exact thing, and I was going to actually say that in one of my posts, but I didn't want to give the usual suspects more potential amunition to bash CC by saying something like "well he could have had either or Prof X say that something was interfering with their telepathy instead of specifically stating that it was the mountains". Remember, many (not all) of the people who hate CC's recent stories are looking for every little thing to bash his writing (which they have every right to do).

As it stands now, I think it's amazing that people seem to think that it's the mountains themselves that are the problem. Remember people, Claremont is verbose... and he made it more than clear through the dialogue that there's something wrong with that stretch of land.

The other characters don't seem able to shut up about the weirdness there.

It's strange that people seem to have lost the ability to read... usually they bitch and moan about how much exposition there is, but for some strange reason they've all gone blind and seem to think that there's barely any text in those preview-pages. Claremont going for minimalistic? I think not. Read the freaking dialogue.

"Perhaps in unison we can punch through the natural interference generated by those mountains."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=3344&pg=6

Mountains generate a natural interference with psi in this Universe otherwise Xavier wouldn't bother to say it. Must be like my cell phone.

And that is probably the least significant of problems with his writing.

[End of Time]

"Perhaps in unison we can punch through the natural interference generated by those mountains."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=3344&pg=6

Ever hear of something called a flawed narrator?

Xavier is the one who states that the interference is natural, this is an assumption. Xavier has never been to the region, he hasn't analyzed the data from the region, he has no previous experience with that bit of land. Combine that with the fact that you have characters just stating out right that there's just a lot of weirdness going on there in general, and you have Xavier make an assumption on the cause of the interference.

Since when do characters have to be 100% in everything they say? Xavier is not above being wrong about things.

Since when do "natural mountains" block out radio, and create irrate weatherpatterns? You cvan quote the Xavier character like some autistic kid, but why don't you quote the shield agents who seem to drone on and on and on about the fact that regular tools for observation have been unable to even map the area properly. There's an electronic disturbance, the weather is even off, and the characters state that the region is just plain weird, and has been for some time now.

[ExodusCloak]

Ever hear of something called a flawed narrator?

Xavier is the one who states that the interference is natural, this is an assumption. Xavier has never been to the region, he hasn't analyzed the data from the region, he has no previous experience with that bit of land. Combine that with the fact that you have characters just stating out right that there's just a lot of weirdness going on there in general, and you have Xavier make an assumption on the cause of the interference.

Since when do characters have to be 100% in everything they say? Xavier is not above being wrong about things.

You've changed your tune from "Read the freakin' dialogue" to "flawed narrator". It indicates that he must have had problems with mountains before to even make that assumption.

[worstblogever]

Ever hear of something called a flawed narrator?

Xavier is the one who states that the interference is natural, this is an assumption. Xavier has never been to the region, he hasn't analyzed the data from the region, he has no previous experience with that bit of land. Combine that with the fact that you have characters just stating out right that there's just a lot of weirdness going on there in general, and you have Xavier make an assumption on the cause of the interference.

Since when do characters have to be 100% in everything they say? Xavier is not above being wrong about things.

Since when do "natural mountains" block out radio, and create irrate weatherpatterns? You cvan quote the Xavier character like some autistic kid, but why don't you quote the shield agents who seem to drone on and on and on about the fact that regular tools for observation have been unable to even map the area properly. There's an electronic disturbance, the weather is even off, and the characters state that the region is just plain weird, and has been for some time now.

Xavier may be a flawed narrator. That might explain it.

Except for the fact that it's Jean adressing Charles, and pointing out the natural interference.

[End of Time]

You've changed your tune from "Read the freakin' dialogue" to "flawed narrator". It indicates that he must have had problems with mountains before to even make that assumption.

why do you think the two are mutually exclusive? You have dialogue from a couple of characters. A bunch of them comment, in their dialogue that the region cannot be mapped due to various forms of interference. They state it by mentioning the fact that they've used tools for objective observation. Radio signals, visual telemetry, objective. It's in their dialogue.

Xavier, who has no such tools at his disposal, then makes a claim that it's because of natural interference

You seem wholly unwilling to place the entire conversation in its proper context and assign the roles that need to be assigned to the characters involved. You seem to take everything out of context, and then seem to judge on the whole thing in absolute terms.

By your logic I can make the following statements.

You think fictional characters should know everything. they are never wrong, and they should have the information available to them constantly. They can never forget, never speculate, they can only state facts. Every character is omniscient when uttering an observation or an opinion.

[ExodusCloak]

You think fictional characters should know everything. they are never wrong, and they should have the information available to them constantly. They can never forget, never speculate, they can only state facts. Every character is omniscient when uttering an observation or an opinion.

No, I think fictional characters who are veterans with their powers and have had experience using their powers in all types of environments should know whether or not their powers are hindered by natural interference from mountains.

[End of Time]

Xavier may be a flawed narrator. That might explain it.

Except for the fact that it's Jean adressing Charles, and pointing out the natural interference.

Christ, so it's JEAN who's wrong. Is Jean above being wrong then? Is Jean somehow NOT an unreliable narrator? Should Xavier immediately correct her? And even then, Xavier would still be an unreliable narrator.

Remind me of how Xavier and Lilandra first met? That's leaning more to the cosmic range. And hasn't Xavier contacted his students across the Atlantic before? Not to mention, my earlier comments about him having no problem using telepathy through some of the most famous mountain ranges in the world?

It's a problem now, because the problem could be solved too easily by telepathy now. And Claremont's too lazy to think of a better reason than "Erm... the mountains are blocking it." Weak.

As for the whole "oh noes I got a name wrong" here's a look at one of your earlier statements, in which you jump to the conclusion that Jean is NOT an unreliable narrator, and then you accuse the writer of not making her into an unrealiable narrator.

Take your pick:
What is it. Is Jean 100% correct in stating that it's a natural phenomenon, or is she an unreliable narrator?

I also think you're not very objective when it comes to Claremont, since you jump to conclusion immediately, by blaming it on laziness of the writer, when you haven't even read the story itself.

[End of Time]

No, I think fictional characters who are veterans with their powers and have had experience using their powers in all types of environments should know whether or not their powers are hindered by natural interference from mountains.

This isn't the sound of music, the hills aren't alive. Are Xavier and Jean constantly in contact with the Andes?

And here I was, thinking telepathy had its limits... silly me, thinking that inanimate objects don't have brains to telepathically communicate with. Silly me thinking that Xavier and Jean have both performed tests to see where in the world their telepathy works best.

You might have opened and closed hundreds of doors in your lifetime, but if you're standing in front of a closed door you've never opened, you're not going to know what's behind it.

Last time I checked, Xavier wasn't an expert on mountains and geology.

[ExodusCloak]

This isn't the sound of music, the hills aren't alive. Are Xavier and Jean constantly in contact with the Andes?

And here I was, thinking telepathy had its limits... silly me, thinking that inanimate objects don't have brains to telepathically communicate with. Silly me thinking that Xavier and Jean have both performed tests to see where in the world their telepathy works best.

You might have opened and closed hundreds of doors in your lifetime, but if you're standing in front of a closed door you've never opened, you're not going to know what's behind it.

Last time I checked, Xavier wasn't an expert on mountains and geology.

Jean without aid specifically scanned the Andes without aid before you can ask Slung for the scans. Last time I checked the X-Men have real word experience on whether or not their powers work in certain environments. It's the equivalent of Storm saying psionic static can inhibit her powers in Bloodties.

[worstblogever]

Christ, so it's JEAN who's wrong. Is Jean above being wrong then? Is Jean somehow NOT an unreliable narrator? Should Xavier immediately correct her? And even then, Xavier would still be an unreliable narrator.



As for the whole "oh noes I got a name wrong" here's a look at one of your earlier statements, in which you jump to the conclusion that Jean is NOT an unreliable narrator, and then you accuse the writer of not making her into an unrealiable narrator.

Take your pick:
What is it. Is Jean 100% correct in stating that it's a natural phenomenon, or is she an unreliable narrator?

I also think you're not very objective when it comes to Claremont, since you jump to conclusion immediately, by blaming it on laziness of the writer, when you haven't even read the story itself.

It just seems rather odd, that someone who encourage people not to blindly criticize, and to "read the freaking dialogue" to miss specifically, the exact point not just in the dialogue, but completely miss who was saying it as well.

And, as far as pointing out Claremont's laziness, I know I've read issues 1-6, as well as this preview. That seems to be plenty of evidence for me to have the opinion I do. You've read them too, right? Or did you mistakenly read a book by a different author, as per that dialogue mishap?

[worstblogever]

Jean without aid specifically scanned the Andes without aid before you can ask Slung for the scans. Last time I checked the X-Men have real word experience on whether or not their powers work in certain environments. It's the equivalent of Storm saying psionic static can inhibit her powers in Bloodties.

Plus the times I've mentioned Xavier has used telepathy through mountains, including the hunt for Factor Three, and summoning Tessa for help after he was assaulted by Lucifer in the Himalayas.

I mean, if telepathy doesn't work through mountains, you'd think the Shadow King would've started up mining companies in ancient times to level every last one of them. Unless he isn't one of those old mutants that suddenly don't exist anymore.

[Disco Jess Minge]

Because every other writer comes up with unique and original character personality types for every character.

You don't see how Claremont uses the same archetype with the near same dialogue over and over? He's always using some teenage character that has the same beat as Kitty, Jubilee, Rachel Grey, and Nocturne, and now Lil' Ro is the placeholder.

And now he's shaping Kitty to be the Psylocke/Sage/Rachel Summers dominatrix type character with the claw and sudden viciousness. This shit is tired.

[steve2275]

I like XMF.
so do i (and thats what i care about)

[Blade X]

"Perhaps in unison we can punch through the natural interference generated by those mountains."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=3344&pg=6

Mountains generate a natural interference with psi in this Universe otherwise Xavier wouldn't bother to say it. Must be like my cell phone.

And that is probably the least significant of problems with his writing.

The key words are "THOSE MOUNTAINS". In other words, there's something strange about those particular mountains that interferes with telepathy.

What are the other problems with his writing in this issue?

[Blade X]

You don't see how Claremont uses the same archetype with the near same dialogue over and over? He's always using some teenage character that has the same beat as Kitty, Jubilee, Rachel Grey, and Nocturne, and now Lil' Ro is the placeholder.

And now he's shaping Kitty to be the Psylocke/Sage/Rachel Summers dominatrix type character with the claw and sudden viciousness. This shit is tired.

All writers, not just CC, repeatedly use the same archetypes from their own previous work.

If you find this crap "tired", why the hell do you continue to torture yourself by continuing to read stories by a writer whose work you have obviously grown tired of? Why don't you do the mature sane thing and stop reading comics written by CC?

[AcesX1X]

those mountains should be investigated for their magical properties.

[steve2275]

The key words are "THOSE MOUNTAINS". In other words, there's something strange about those particular mountains that interferes with telepathy.

What are the other problems with his writing in this issue?truth spoken

[worstblogever]

those mountains should be investigated for their magical properties.

Thus, we are left with the conundrum... How can their properties be natural, and yet do something that's never been established in any other natural mountain? Are they made of the same stuff that naturally lines the Morlock Tunnels?

Within that mountain, are their Dwarven Morlocks mining away, singing "Heigh Ho" that Cerebro could never detect?

[End of Time]

Thus, we are left with the conundrum... How can their properties be natural, and yet do something that's never been established in any other natural mountain? Are they made of the same stuff that naturally lines the Morlock Tunnels?

Within that mountain, are their Dwarven Morlocks mining away, singing "Heigh Ho" that Cerebro could never detect?

You're just trolling.

You are not one bit interested in discussion. You've made up your mind about a writer, and if that writer was an actual poster here, you'd be banned for flaming and making personal attacks.

You seem to think that taking everything out of context and then snarking about it, is somehow funny. It might be funny, it might have been funny once, but right now you're just a broken record, playing the same damn thing over and over and over again. And it's not even witty or funny anymore, you're just going for a very obvious pattern with your posts concerning Claremont.

There's a preview, or a story, and you pick out one thing. You take it out of context, then try to embellish it, and you seem to just endlessly repeat the same snarky comment you made in your first post, in every subsequent post.

The problem of course, is that your initial snark wasn't all that funny. At least Novaya Havok had some kind of schtick to his insanity. You're not even outrageous enough to make it an over-the-top comment, instead you make something subdued enough to have it sound as if you're really just a very bitter person.

[DeadXMan]

You don't see how Claremont uses the same archetype with the near same dialogue over and over? He's always using some teenage character that has the same beat as Kitty, Jubilee, Rachel Grey, and Nocturne, and now Lil' Ro is the placeholder.

And now he's shaping Kitty to be the Psylocke/Sage/Rachel Summers dominatrix type character with the claw and sudden viciousness. This shit is tired.

I'll take it over the Fractionization of Uncanny.:rolleyes:

[Blade X]

Thus, we are left with the conundrum... How can their properties be natural, and yet do something that's never been established in any other natural mountain?

They can be "natural" the same way that Vibranium is natural in the MU. In other words, there could be some undiscovered FICTIONAL element or substance in those particular mountains that makes it difficult for telepathy to get through.

[RolandJP]

so do i (and thats what i care about)

Add my name to the list. I like XMF too!

[RolandJP]

those mountains should be investigated for their magical properties.

well CC did foreshadow something.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u102/NoPrize/Comics/X-forever.jpg

[worstblogever]

You're just trolling.

You are not one bit interested in discussion. You've made up your mind about a writer, and if that writer was an actual poster here, you'd be banned for flaming and making personal attacks.

You seem to think that taking everything out of context and then snarking about it, is somehow funny. It might be funny, it might have been funny once, but right now you're just a broken record, playing the same damn thing over and over and over again. And it's not even witty or funny anymore, you're just going for a very obvious pattern with your posts concerning Claremont.

There's a preview, or a story, and you pick out one thing. You take it out of context, then try to embellish it, and you seem to just endlessly repeat the same snarky comment you made in your first post, in every subsequent post.

The problem of course, is that your initial snark wasn't all that funny. At least Novaya Havok had some kind of schtick to his insanity. You're not even outrageous enough to make it an over-the-top comment, instead you make something subdued enough to have it sound as if you're really just a very bitter person.

I'll file this in the "You don't like this? Well, you're just a CC HATER!" pile.

[Blade X]

I'll file this in the "You don't like this? Well, you're just a CC HATER!" pile.

While I do think that you have some genuine honest and understandable gripes about CC's writing, I think that many of your criticisms are either hypocritical,bias, nitpicking,or straight up condescending and insulting.

[worstblogever]

While I do think that you have some genuine honest and understandable gripes about CC's writing, I think that many of your criticisms are either hypocritical,bias, nitpicking,or straight up condescending and insulting.

Thank you, Blade X, but your opinion was added to that same pile months ago.

[q.u.e.e.n.]

I'll file this in the "You don't like this? Well, you're just a CC HATER!" pile.

I don't think End of Time was just filing you under then 'CC Hater' list. He was just expressing the fact that you seemed to have trollish behavior. What he said didn't suggest that he disliked criticism for the book. In fact, from his post it would suggest that he would welcome thoughtful criticism. But what you said wasn't even criticism at all. Just silliness.

[Frank]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=3344&disp=table

Wow the artwork is atrocious. Is this how Grummett draws these days? It doesn't look anything like him.

[Blade X]

Wow the artwork is atrocious. Is this how Grummett draws these days? It doesn't look anything like him.

That's because Grummett didn't draw those pages.

[Blade X]

Thank you, Blade X, but your opinion was added to that same pile months ago.

Of course it was. I wouldn't expect nothing less from you.

[Frank]

That's because Grummett didn't draw those pages.

So who's the crappy artist?

[worstblogever]

I don't think End of Time was just filing you under then 'CC Hater' list. He was just expressing the fact that you seemed to have trollish behavior. What he said didn't suggest that he disliked criticism for the book. In fact, from his post it would suggest that he would welcome thoughtful criticism. But what you said wasn't even criticism at all. Just silliness.

A post, had a trace of silliness. The preceding pages? Not quite as much.

This whole "mountain of bullshit", so to speak, regarding continuity, including examples of the various times telepaths have been able to work around mountains is silliness?'

The only argument that makes any sense in opposition to it, is he's giving both Jean, and Xavier, a HUGE case of plot-induced stupidity, to think there's something natural about their telepathy ceasing to work in an situation where it's worked various times before. Someone else even pointed out that it's worked in this same range of mountains.

And, it's going to supposedly work as a "shock" when it turns out that Master Mold, from the earlier part of this series, has woke up, left a single footprint, and shlepped off into the mountain, and set up some kind of blocker for himself. Which, if that's what's going on, is hardly "natural interference".

So, no matter which way we deviate down the potential "Claremont excuse list", we end up with "forced stupidity on a character" or "ignoring continuity (again)".

They can pick their poison. Which, some would say happens when they spend money on this book.

[steve2275]

So who's the crappy artist?crappy? no fuckin way
steve scott the artist
just happens to have my first 2 names :tongue:

[Yogaflame]

Come on now! Telepathy has always been seen as a transfer and/or reception of psionic energy. Brains use electrical energy to transmit neural response/create thought. Telepaths must be able to pick up on that energy.

Since the early days, electro-magnetism has been intermingled with telepathy, as is evidenced by Magneto's ability(and later powerful elementals like Storm) to go head-to-head with Xavier due to his own abilities; and Cerebro, a machine of Xavier's own design that somehow mechanically/technologically amplifies Xavier's natural psionic ability.

So we have always accepted telepathy as some sort of energy transmission and something that can be affected by electromagnetic energy/geographic distance/technological machines. So why is it strange that Xavier and Jean cannot read something happening two continents away in a strange mountainous area without the use of Cerebro, and only after using each other's ability in unison, can one even get a peek [peak]?

That seems reasonable. If a configuration of earth(metal) can help their telepathy(Cerebro), why would it be unfathomable that a configuration of earth(mountains) could hinder their telepathy?

[worstblogever]

Come on now! Telepathy has always been seen as a transfer and/or reception of psionic energy. Brains use electrical energy to transmit neural response/create thought. Telepaths must be able to pick up on that energy.

Since the early days, electro-magnetism has been intermingled with telepathy, as is evidenced by Magneto's ability(and later powerful elementals like Storm) to go head-to-head with Xavier due to his own abilities; and Cerebro, a machine of Xavier's own design that somehow mechanically/technologically amplifies Xavier's natural psionic ability.

So we have always accepted telepathy as some sort of energy transmission and something that can be affected by electromagnetic energy/geographic distance/technological machines. So why is it strange that Xavier and Jean cannot read something happening two continents away in a strange mountainous area without the use of Cerebro, and only after using each other's ability in unison, can one even get a peek [peak]?

That seems reasonable. If a configuration of earth(metal) can help their telepathy(Cerebro), why would it be unfathomable that a configuration of earth(mountains) could hinder their telepathy?

Well, while all of these might be valid reasons, there is this, again:

Jean without aid specifically scanned the Andes without aid before you can ask Slung for the scans. Last time I checked the X-Men have real world experience on whether or not their powers work in certain environments. It's the equivalent of Storm saying psionic static can inhibit her powers in Bloodties.

So, the Andes have "naturally" developed the ability to block telepathy since when, how?

That's the point.

[End of Time]

So, the Andes have "naturally" developed the ability to block telepathy since when, how?

That's the point.

They're not talking about the entire mountain-range called the Andes.

ffs, why am I arguing with a troll?

[Blade X]

Well, while all of these might be valid reasons, there is this, again:



So, the Andes have "naturally" developed the ability to block telepathy since when, how?

That's the point.

But when Jean did that was she (a) using Cerebro or (b) physically on the scene in those very same mountains?

[ExodusCloak]

The key words are "THOSE MOUNTAINS". In other words, there's something strange about those particular mountains that interferes with telepathy.

What are the other problems with his writing in this issue?

Not this issue, since it's not out yet. But everything that John Byrne said about being irked about important scenes being lost and writing characters to fit stories as opposed to writing stories to fit characters which applies to his writing in general and this series.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Steve Scott is ok with me, i see in his art a mix of Neal Adams, Michael Golden & Jim Starlin
I particularly like this page:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/StephaneGarrelie/xmforev007_int_0003.jpg

[RolandJP]

Steve Scott is ok with me, i see in his art a mix of Neal Adams, Michael Golden & Jim Starlin
I particularly like this page:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/StephaneGarrelie/xmforev007_int_0003.jpg

CC does tend to draw some great artists. Cockrum. Byrne. Smith. (barry and Paul) Jim lee. Frank miller. Tim Seeley. Grummett. And the list goes on.

[alf_to_the_rescue]

I don't think End of Time was just filing you under then 'CC Hater' list. He was just expressing the fact that you seemed to have trollish behavior. What he said didn't suggest that he disliked criticism for the book. In fact, from his post it would suggest that he would welcome thoughtful criticism. But what you said wasn't even criticism at all. Just silliness.

Who let you out.

[Blade X]

Not this issue, since it's not out yet. But everything that John Byrne said about being irked about important scenes being lost and writing characters to fit stories as opposed to writing stories to fit characters which applies to his writing in general and this series.

That's a fair (and very true) criticism of CC's work. Of course, none of that really stood out or mattered to many (not all) us when we were first reading these stories at a younger age. As Byrne has said, this might have helped (cause it certainly didn't hurt) turn the X-Men into a hugely successful and top selling comic, not to mention multimedia sensation.

[Disco Jess Minge]

That's a fair (and very true) criticism of CC's work. Of course, none of that really stood out or mattered to many (not all) us when we were first reading these stories at a younger age. As Byrne has said, this might have helped (cause it certainly didn't hurt) turn the X-Men into a hugely successful and top selling comic, not to mention multimedia sensation.It became a multimedia sensation long after he left the title. Don't give him all the credit now.

[Blade X]

It became a multimedia sensation long after he left the title. Don't give him all the credit now.

Which was largely due to his work on the comic. remember, the first X-Men cartoon (PRYDE OF THE X-MEN) and the popular X-MEN arcade game came out while CC was still writing the book. And before you accuse me of downplaying the work of other X-Men creators, I would like to acknowledge that it was due largely to the work of Stan Lee,Jack Kirby,Roy Thomas,Neal Adams,Len Wein, Dave Cockrum,CC,and John Byrne that led to the X-Men becoming a huge multimedia sensation.

[worstblogever]

But when Jean did that was she (a) using Cerebro or (b) physically on the scene in those very same mountains?

Nope. It was when the X-Men were trying to find Karl Lykos near the Savage Land in X-Men (vol. 1) #61.

[direction9]

Which was largely due to his work on the comic. remember, the first X-Men cartoon (PRYDE OF THE X-MEN) and the popular X-MEN arcade game came out while CC was still writing the book. And before you accuse me of downplaying the work of other X-Men creators, I would like to acknowledge that it was due largely to the work of Stan Lee,Jack Kirby,Roy Thomas,Neal Adams,Len Wein, Dave Cockrum,CC,and John Byrne that led to the X-Men becoming a huge multimedia sensation.

that doesn't excuse any of those names from writing awful stories in 2009

[darknessatnoon]

that doesn't excuse any of those names from writing awful stories in 2009

Especially Jack Kirby. Did he do one of those horrible Manifest Destiny short stories?

[Blade X]

Nope. It was when the X-Men were trying to find Karl Lykos near the Savage Land in X-Men (vol. 1) #61.

Well unless things have changed about those mountains since X-MEN #61 (like something strange is now interfering with telepathy in that area), then it was either a simple mistake or a retcon.

[zonzorp]

Nope. It was when the X-Men were trying to find Karl Lykos near the Savage Land in X-Men (vol. 1) #61.

I would be very interested in your scan, since I see no such scene in #61.
In fact, Jean didn't explicitly use telepathy at any point during the Sentinel, Lykos, and Magneto/Savage Land stories.
Even if there were such a scene, it would have little relevance since much of a continent separates Tierra del Fuego from the Amazon. "Those mountains" refers to the immediate vicinity of the Shield team, not the entire 4,000 mile length of the Andes.

[Home made ectoplasm]

This is going to be funny if this telepathy resistant mountain is never mentioned again beyond this preview.

[worstblogever]

I would be very interested in your scan, since I see no such scene in #61.
In fact, Jean didn't explicitly use telepathy at any point during the Sentinel, Lykos, and Magneto/Savage Land stories.
Even if there were such a scene, it would have little relevance since much of a continent separates Tierra del Fuego from the Amazon. "Those mountains" refers to the immediate vicinity of the Shield team, not the entire 4,000 mile length of the Andes.

I'm not the one who said they had the scan in the first place. But that's the issue in question.

And really, now we're going with the "The Andes are a BIG mountain chain" defense, too?

Look, y'all can just keep your heads in the sand. At this point, I'm realizing that no matter how bad of an error that's made by Claremont, he's got someone, somewhere, who's willing to invent an excuse for him, when it's just simply that the guy has lapses where he contridicts his continuity. Often.

I'm just going to leave it at that rather than continue this through every 6 days after the previews, and 8 days after the issue comes out.

[zonzorp]

I'm not the one who said they had the scan in the first place. But that's the issue in question.
You did cite (U)XM 61. I just read that issue. There's no scene where Jean or anyone else telepathically locates Lykos/Sauron or anyone else, anywhere in the issue. That isn't an excuse, it is a plain fact. Now, perhaps, someone will find an actual example of someone telepathically scanning the Andes or some sub-region thereof.
And really, now we're going with the "The Andes are a BIG mountain chain" defense, too?
The Andes are big. If the Andes were rotated and superimposed on Eurasia, they would stretch from Portugal to northwest China. That is really, really big. Such a really big geological feature should be expected to vary in many of its properties, such as its transparency or opacity to telepathy.

If "The Andes are big" isn't an explanation, then you must also believe that the Shield tech problems also apply to the entire range, not just the specific region where the team was investigating. The electronic interference and psi-blockage are clearly intended to be different facets of the same phenomenon.

Look, y'all can just keep your heads in the sand. At this point, I'm realizing that no matter how bad of an error that's made by Claremont, he's got someone, somewhere, who's willing to invent an excuse for him, when it's just simply that the guy has lapses where he contridicts his continuity. Often.
Before condemning an error, make sure it is an error and not a legitimate plot point.

I'm just going to leave it at that rather than continue this through every 6 days after the previews, and 8 days after the issue comes out.
It's a selfless task you've undertaken, but perhaps the time has come to unshoulder the yoke, set down your burden, and take a well-deserved rest.

[mightiest_mortal]

Hehe cant scan telepathically through mountains:rolleyes: ... imagine how useless a telepath would be if they couldn't scan through bones.

[Frank]

Steve Scott is ok with me, i see in his art a mix of Neal Adams, Michael Golden & Jim Starlin
I particularly like this page:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/StephaneGarrelie/xmforev007_int_0003.jpg

It looks ike Grummett.

And Grummett was a problem to start with.

[steve2275]

They're not talking about the entire mountain-range called the Andes.

ffs, why am I arguing with a troll?
since when is wbe a troll?

[DeadXMan]

everyone is a troll in some form or another.

[jester1436]

everyone is a troll in some form or another.

What form of troll are you?

[darknessatnoon]

What form of troll are you?

deadXman is a troll in every form.

[DeadXMan]

I'm the kind that brings The Funk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZz5wacKcK8)

[jester1436]

the kind that brings The Funk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZz5wacKcK8)

Crack is wack.

[DeadXMan]

yes it is, that's why I use natural products.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8onbDZmAwhE

[darknessatnoon]

yes it is, that's why I use natural products.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYW7BUc2bCQ:wink:

The URL contained a malformed video ID.

Typical, deadXman. Just typical.

[RolandJP]

Crack is wack.


And Oxycontin should never be forgotten

[jester1436]

Typical, deadXman. Just typical.

Typical, but incredibly appropriate. Malformed links from a malformed troll in a thread about a malformed comic book.

[RolandJP]

I'm the kind that brings The Funk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZz5wacKcK8)
thanks for the link. I am all funked out! :redface:

[DeadXMan]

then on to the remix:biggrin:

[Joe Franklin]

everyone is a troll in some form or another.

I agree.

Here is a photo of me from Comicon.:biggrin:

http://taricho.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/beetlejuice.jpg

[Home made ectoplasm]

I agree.

Here is a photo of me from Comicon.:biggrin:

http://taricho.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/beetlejuice.jpg

Almost as good as DeadXMan's malformed link.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Got the new issue. I understand that this week the comics are only released tomorow in the US, so i'll wait until then to post my review, but i enjoyed the issue a lot.
Also: They have the new costumes, and Steve Scott draws a really bad-ass Logan (in the WW2 flashback) .