Chaykin

[Leocomix]

In his latest column, Steven put Chaykin in his proper place amongst the giants of comic books. American Flagg, Blackhawk, Black Kiss, Twilight and American Century are masterpieces. It's a bit stupid that creators need lengthy runs on notable characters to be noticed.
I don't know if this last is true. Daredevil, Swamp Thing, Captain Britain, Marvelman, Sandman, Animal Man, Doom Patrol were at best minor before creators made them famous. But it's true that Chaykin had no lengthy run on notable properties. He did twelve issues on Blade (excellent run) but the series was cancelled, his work on Blackhawk and Shadow relaunched the characters. He had several consecutive issues of his own creations.
I think there is just a lack of critical recognition of his work. His peers need to step up and orient their fans to his work either by writing introductions or blurbs.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I don't know if this last is true. Daredevil, Swamp Thing, Captain Britain, Marvelman, Sandman, Animal Man, Doom Patrol were at best minor before creators made them famous. But it's true that Chaykin had no lengthy run on notable properties.

I think you answered your own point - these were all pre-existing properties, all, with the exception of Marvelman, from Marvel and DC.
And so rightly or wrongly, get more fan attention than a creator owned series.
Also, they all had longer runs from the creators that made them big than Chaykin has done on any of his books.

[Imaginos666]

The Shadow was the book that made me first take notice of Chaykin. I'd seen his work before (Star Wars, Dominic Fortune) but had read those stories at an age when the concepts like "writers" and "artists" weren't an issue for me.

When I was 10, my father told me about The Shadow radio shows, and I was immediately sold on the character. It wasn't until I was 15, though, that I came across my first actual Shadow story ... Chaykin's mini series. I loved it, and loved the following Helfer/Sienkiewicz/Baker series, as well (I understand Chaykin wrote the bible that was used for much of the series.)

It wasn't until a few years ago that I learned that The Shadow has a pretty rigid, fundamentalist following that HATED these stories. Some people have no sense of humour, I guess.

Also: Power & Glory is an underrated classic.

[bartl]

It's a bit stupid that creators need lengthy runs on notable characters to be noticed.
Well, there IS a mechanism. Even if it's a low selling comic, it has a readership, many of whom communicate with other readers. With a new comic from a major publisher, there will be advertising, at least in the publisher's other comics. With a new comic from an non-major publisher, a writer or artist having a fan base will also help with sales. But an unknown writer writing for a new comic from a non-major publisher is pretty much only going to sell through to the steadily decreasing number of readers/collectors who buy everything on the stand. Which means, among other things, not enough pre-sold copies to even get on the stands in the first place.

[Darrell D.]

The Shadow was the book that made me first take notice of Chaykin. I'd seen his work before (Star Wars, Dominic Fortune) but had read those stories at an age when the concepts like "writers" and "artists" weren't an issue for me.

When I was 10, my father told me about The Shadow radio shows, and I was immediately sold on the character. It wasn't until I was 15, though, that I came across my first actual Shadow story ... Chaykin's mini series. I loved it, and loved the following Helfer/Sienkiewicz/Baker series, as well (I understand Chaykin wrote the bible that was used for much of the series.)

It wasn't until a few years ago that I learned that The Shadow has a pretty rigid, fundamentalist following that HATED these stories. Some people have no sense of humour, I guess.

Also: Power & Glory is an underrated classic.

Power and Glory is great.
The Shadow pissed off a lot of fans, but the mini and the ongoing was a blast. Fun, sexy and irreverent. The design work on the Blackhawk mini was top-notch.
The Twilight series with Jose Luis Garcia was also fun...and of course, it pissed a lot people off, as usual. I can't imagine a series like that getting past the pitch stage at DC these days.

[Paul McEnery]

I followed Chaykin from the beginning. Had that Nick Fury comic. Had Empire. Had Swords of Heaven. The thing I always liked about him was that there was something wrong about the work, something that dug into your eyeballs like a parasite that wouldn't ever leave, and would make you see pointess lines that led from the protagonist off through the bleed to the edge of the page... and like it.

And I was real sorry TimeSquared was a marketing disaster. Looking back, doing it as a backup feature in Flagg would have been the way to go to build an audience. And not those flimsy "graphic novels" that nobody ever liked and always gave the impression to everyone of being a ripoff.

Seems to me that's something that had a lot of juice in it, and might could actually work as a revival.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I followed Chaykin from the beginning. Had that Nick Fury comic. Had Empire. Had Swords of Heaven. The thing I always liked about him was that there was something wrong about the work, something that dug into your eyeballs like a parasite that wouldn't ever leave, and would make you see pointess lines that led from the protagonist off through the bleed to the edge of the page... and like it.

And I was real sorry TimeSquared was a marketing disaster. Looking back, doing it as a backup feature in Flagg would have been the way to go to build an audience.

What about The Flash show, eh?



They call them 'Premiere Editions' these days.

[QUOTE]
Seems to me that's something that had a lot of juice in it, and might could actually work as a revival.

Does anyone know how the new Flagg editions went down?

There seemed to be a lot of hoo-hah when first announced, but then it was delayed for years, and then actually released with barely a whisper.
I only picked up the first one the other week after Steven's first Chaykin love-in, as it reminded me to go look for it, and I was shocked that both volumes had come out.

Heck, last year Chaykin was down here for a con, and I was pretty sure at the time it was supposed to have been timed with the release of them.
As it was, it was just him with nothing new to sell/promote, except upcoming Wolverine work - and even he didn't seem that enthused, or interested, in talking about it.

[Steven Grant]

What about The Flash show, eh?

You can't begin to imagine what a crazy nightmare THE FLASH was.

- Grant

[Imaginos666]

You can't begin to imagine what a crazy nightmare THE FLASH was.

- Grant

I was surprised to see Chaykin's name in the credits to that show because it sure didn't have his fingerprints on it. I assumed it was a case of hiring a "comic book guy" and then micromanaging his contributions into oblivion.

[Steven Grant]

I was surprised to see Chaykin's name in the credits to that show because it sure didn't have his fingerprints on it. I assumed it was a case of hiring a "comic book guy" and then micromanaging his contributions into oblivion.

Not the producers. Howard and his writing partner John Moore worked with them pretty well, as far as I remember. Problem was it was CBS' most expensive show at the time, so the network sat on it like an 8000 lb gorilla, and had no real concept of what the show should be, so they sent memos once or twice a week, changing the direction, often 180 degrees, constantly causing them to scrap scripts and write new ones pretty much overnight. It wasn't the best milieu for self-expression, but Howard & John were very professional about it the whole way through and did what was necessary. Putting Howard's fingerprints on it wasn't necessary; he wasn't the showrunner, and fingerprints are the showrunner's job. But they're still there, though you may have to look into the cracks to see them.

Though I'm sure THE FLASH wasn't that rare a case, and networks often try to "fix" their shows in similar ways.

- Grant

[Imaginos666]

Not the producers. Howard and his writing partner John Moore worked with them pretty well, as far as I remember. Problem was it was CBS' most expensive show at the time, so the network sat on it like an 8000 lb gorilla, and had no real concept of what the show should be, so they sent memos once or twice a week, changing the direction, often 180 degrees, constantly causing them to scrap scripts and write new ones pretty much overnight. It wasn't the best milieu for self-expression, but Howard & John were very professional about it the whole way through and did what was necessary. Putting Howard's fingerprints on it wasn't necessary; he wasn't the showrunner, and fingerprints are the showrunner's job. But they're still there, though you may have to look into the cracks to see them.

Though I'm sure THE FLASH wasn't that rare a case, and networks often try to "fix" their shows in similar ways.

- Grant

Still, there's nothing wrong with The Flash that an appearance of a sociopathic transsexual assassin in hot-pink lingerie wouldn't have fixed.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit this, but I had the "Chaykin Haircut" in high school. You know ... the haircut that seems to appear on a LOT of his protagonists.
http://www.comicsbulletin.com/news/images/0408/flagg.jpg

[Steven Grant]

I'm a little embarrassed to admit this, but I had the "Chaykin Haircut" in high school. You know ... the haircut that seems to appear on a LOT of his protagonists.

Nothing to be embarrassed about.

Unless you had it on purpose.

- Grant

[Imaginos666]

Nothing to be embarrassed about.

Unless you had it on purpose.

- Grant

Oh, it was on purpose. It was just one of many regrettable hairstyles I had in high school.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Oh, it was on purpose. It was just one of many regrettable hairstyles I had in high school.

Did you take an American Flagg issue in to show the barber/hairdresser?

That's so uncool it's cool!

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Double post.

Now that's uncool.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Oh, it was on purpose. It was just one of many regrettable hairstyles I had in high school.

Did you take an American Flagg issue in to show the barber/hairdresser?

That's so uncool it's cool!

[Imaginos666]

Did you take an American Flagg issue in to show the barber/hairdresser?

That's so uncool it's cool!


I stopped short of doing that ... even as odd a decision as that haircut was, taking a comicbook to a hair salon seemed a bit much.

And yes, I know how ridiculous that sounds.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

You can't begin to imagine what a crazy nightmare THE FLASH was.

- Grant

Were you involved, or just heard about it?

I was pretty young when it came out - I had nightmares about the character tied to the back of the motorcycle and blown up in the first episode - but even as a kid found it a bit of an odd show.
Sometimes Mark Hamil was running around as a super villain, sometimes someone was experimenting on homeless people.

[Steven Grant]

Were you involved, or just heard about it?

I was pretty young when it came out - I had nightmares about the character tied to the back of the motorcycle and blown up in the first episode - but even as a kid found it a bit of an odd show.
Sometimes Mark Hamil was running around as a super villain, sometimes someone was experimenting on homeless people.

I was peripheral, hung out with Howard quite a bit at the time and hung out at the Flash offices a little. Almost sold them an episode that Howard & John loved, the producers loved, the actors loved, the studio loved... and the network killed on the grounds that audiences wouldn't understand it... Was going to pitch a second one but the show was canceled by then...

- Grant

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I was peripheral, hung out with Howard quite a bit at the time and hung out at the Flash offices a little. Almost sold them an episode that Howard & John loved, the producers loved, the actors loved, the studio loved... and the network killed on the grounds that audiences wouldn't understand it... Was going to pitch a second one but the show was canceled by then...

- Grant

How complex an idea was it?

I mean, Flash readers could handle Earth 2, and they were young kids thirty years before the show was on...

[Steven Grant]

How complex an idea was it?

I mean, Flash readers could handle Earth 2, and they were young kids thirty years before the show was on...

It was less complex than that. The concept wasn't even especially original for TV.

- Grant

[David G]

Were you involved, or just heard about it?

I was pretty young when it came out - I had nightmares about the character tied to the back of the motorcycle and blown up in the first episode - but even as a kid found it a bit of an odd show.
Sometimes Mark Hamil was running around as a super villain, sometimes someone was experimenting on homeless people.

I can explain that. When it began, the studio wanted the show to have typical storylines. For one, they didn't want the Flash to have a costume. They wanted a guy in a tracksuit with lights on his tennis shoes. There's an even an episode where the Flash has to care for an abandoned baby. The producers and writers wanted to do a sci-fi and super-hero show, so there were clashes with the network from the beginning. By the time the show incorporated more fantastic elements - about halfway through its run - it was clear the show wasn't going to be renewed. Too many timeslot changes, pre-emptions and some studio politics all contributed to the show's end.

[Steven Grant]

I can explain that. When it began, the studio wanted the show to have typical storylines. For one, they didn't want the Flash to have a costume. They wanted a guy in a tracksuit with lights on his tennis shoes. There's an even an episode where the Flash has to care for an abandoned baby. The producers and writers wanted to do a sci-fi and super-hero show, so there were clashes with the network from the beginning. By the time the show incorporated more fantastic elements - about halfway through its run - it was clear the show wasn't going to be renewed. Too many timeslot changes, pre-emptions and some studio politics all contributed to the show's end.

As I recall, CBS was a much bigger obstacle to the show than Warners was. As far as I know, all the shifting dictates on show direction, preemptions and slot shifts were the network's doing. It didn't help that the show was CBS' most expensive at the time.

- Grant

[David G]

As I recall, CBS was a much bigger obstacle to the show than Warners was. As far as I know, all the shifting dictates on show direction, preemptions and slot shifts were the network's doing. It didn't help that the show was CBS' most expensive at the time.

- Grant

Grant,

Yes, that's true. It was the network, not Warners.

David

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

By the time the show incorporated more fantastic elements - about halfway through its run - it was clear the show wasn't going to be renewed. Too many timeslot changes, pre-emptions and some studio politics all contributed to the show's end.

That makes sense, I was about seven or eight at the time it came out, and I remember I stopped watching it after a bit, as it wasn't the show I'd wanted, and then a friend who'd taped a few episodes showed them to me later and I liked them a lot more - all I can remember of the one's I liked is Mark Hamil as the Trickster had The Flash under his control and the Flash stopping bullets and saying 'Guns don't kill people, Bullets do' - and at that age, I thought it was the greatest line ever.
Seriously, it had me and my mate in tears laughing.
If they'd had more like that episode, and less of 'gangster uses Flash to cheat at gambling', then the show probably would have picked up a younger following.

[David G]

That makes sense, I was about seven or eight at the time it came out, and I remember I stopped watching it after a bit, as it wasn't the show I'd wanted, and then a friend who'd taped a few episodes showed them to me later and I liked them a lot more - all I can remember of the one's I liked is Mark Hamil as the Trickster had The Flash under his control and the Flash stopping bullets and saying 'Guns don't kill people, Bullets do' - and at that age, I thought it was the greatest line ever.
Seriously, it had me and my mate in tears laughing.
If they'd had more like that episode, and less of 'gangster uses Flash to cheat at gambling', then the show probably would have picked up a younger following.

Had there been a second season, the plan was to open with a possible 2-parter that teamed Mirror Master, Captain Cold and the Trickster. It never went beyond the "wouldn't it be cool if..." stage.

[Darrell D.]

It's funny, but the Batman: Dark Allegiances One shot that Chaykin did it the 90's was probably the best Batman story released that year; and probably the most ignored.

[bartl]

As I recall, CBS was a much bigger obstacle to the show than Warners was. As far as I know, all the shifting dictates on show direction, preemptions and slot shifts were the network's doing. It didn't help that the show was CBS' most expensive at the time.
From what I heard at the time, it was still "on the bubble", with a tiny chance of being renewed, but John Wesley Shipp's coming out of the closet killed that (remote) possibility (I can't find a reference, but I seem to remember that the story at the time was that Shipp's coming out is what triggered the series being moved to a death sentence time slot).

[Steven Grant]

From what I heard at the time, it was still "on the bubble", with a tiny chance of being renewed, but John Wesley Shipp's coming out of the closet killed that (remote) possibility (I can't find a reference, but I seem to remember that the story at the time was that Shipp's coming out is what triggered the series being moved to a death sentence time slot).

As far as I know, that qualifies as an urban legend. If it was ever "on the bubble," a $1.1 mil or so cost per episode and ratings in the 60s popped the bubble, since in that era a top ten show would've have difficulty justifying that price tag. The show was moved into the death sentence time slot to burn off the remaining episodes because they weren't about to simply flush anything that cost $1.1m per.

- Grant

[Frank]

Wait, JWS is gay? Never heard about this.

I remember liking Flash even if it was simplistic. A lot of the mood and style was heavely borrowed from the Tim Burton Batman movie as this timeless dark city with some 1940s cars and so forth. But I lost interests when they kept having re-runs.

[Iangould]

Just a quick note to let people know that Dynamite has just rereleased Power & Glory.

[Imaginos666]

Just a quick note to let people know that Dynamite has just rereleased Power & Glory.


How do? Hardback, trade or an issue-by-issue reprint? And is the Christmas special included?

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

How do? Hardback, trade or an issue-by-issue reprint? And is the Christmas special included?

It's a trade.

[sweetdreams]

I love Chaykin. American Flagg? was one of my first GNs. Love him.

[jmyoung]

I have a single volume that has 1 - 14. Was there a second hardcover volume?

[jmyoung]

That's American Flagg, BTW.