Computer smart people, give some ideas here?

[Alex]

The friend who built my last computer a few years back is at it again, my instructions this time were
"I want it to be able to run games nicely, get me a deal."
As far as i know, the most important thing to this is the processor and video card, so in my price range he has found...
Nvidia GeForce GTX 260x2
I've never actually had 2 cards in the same computer, i know a lot of people think highly of the setup, but i can't actually figure out what it does. I'm pretty sure it doesn't double the power, as it were, but what benefits am i going to notice here?
He told me the reason he is going with 2 GTX 260's is because he found a great deal on them, he's getting both for the cost of one, i think it was a GTX280, which is the higher model, and said two of the 260 would outperform one. And he said he didn't think crossfire is as good as SLI, so ATI wasn't an option (Price was also an issue though, i had looked at it myself, and benchmarks i saw didn't justify the price)

Intel Core3 I7-975 3.33GHz, 8MB cache is the processor, which i haven't been able to ask anyone about since it's apprently the newest thing.

So, from that little info, can anybody give me a preview of what i should be seeing? I have a full list of specs from him, but i'm not sure if anything else is relevant.

[bw38]

sounds like a very powerful machine you're building there. must be pretty pricey. personally i don't think it's worth spending that much cash on a video card, considering new stuff will constantly be coming out, but if you're a heavy gamer and must have the latest and greatest and price isn't an issue, eat your heart out.

if you don't mind me redirecting you, there's a forum that i've found quite helpful in the past when it comes to tech stuff. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/hwreviews no need to sign up, you can post anonymously.

i tried finding reviews online for that video card, but no cigar.

[bw38]

http://forums.slizone.com/index.php?showtopic=23084

[The Shelf]

I looked up your processor on Newegg, and it alone is $1000. Seems a little overboard to me, but if you've got the cash for it, then more power to you. I'm sure it'll last you a long time, though. The graphics cards sound like a good choice to me if he can get you a good deal on them.

On a side note, RAM is relatively cheap, so I'd get as much as your motherboard will allow. It sounds like your CPU is 64-bit, so the motherboard should be the limiting factor here instead of the CPU (32-bit systems only allow up to 4 GB of RAM).

[Rollerblader]

The friend who built my last computer a few years back is at it again, my instructions this time were
"I want it to be able to run games nicely, get me a deal."
As far as i know, the most important thing to this is the processor and video card, so in my price range he has found...
Nvidia GeForce GTX 260x2
I've never actually had 2 cards in the same computer, i know a lot of people think highly of the setup, but i can't actually figure out what it does. I'm pretty sure it doesn't double the power, as it were, but what benefits am i going to notice here?
He told me the reason he is going with 2 GTX 260's is because he found a great deal on them, he's getting both for the cost of one, i think it was a GTX280, which is the higher model, and said two of the 260 would outperform one. And he said he didn't think crossfire is as good as SLI, so ATI wasn't an option (Price was also an issue though, i had looked at it myself, and benchmarks i saw didn't justify the price)

Intel Core3 I7-975 3.33GHz, 8MB cache is the processor, which i haven't been able to ask anyone about since it's apprently the newest thing.

So, from that little info, can anybody give me a preview of what i should be seeing? I have a full list of specs from him, but i'm not sure if anything else is relevant.
CrossfireX (the current newest gen) is actually better than SLi in terms of how much extra performance you're getting for an additional card.

But now is probably the worst time to build a computer as the ATi 5850 & 5870 are rolling out in Sept & will be in stores for purchase the beginning of Oct. These new cards, 1 of them will destroy 2x 260s core 216s. And will be cheaper. And will support DirectX 11.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour-amd-dx11-cypress-is-radeon-hd-5870--hd-5850/7469.html?doc=7469

For a CPU right now the Phenom II X4 is the best bang/buck you can get.

Here's the best bang/buck build I can put together atm.

AMD Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
$169.99
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103696)

or if you don't have vista (assuming you dont want to stick w/ XP after Win 7 comes out)
Phenom II X4 945 + Vista Home Premium w/ coupon for free Win 7 Home Premium $264 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.235896.19-103-696)

or for i7
Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
$280 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202)

& w/ vista + free Win 7 coupon $375 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.235896.19-115-202)



For MoBos. Gigabyte is my #1 brand rec. Then Asus. Then DFI.
GIGABYTE GA-MA790XT-UD4P AM3 DDR3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
$112 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128378)

or if you're going i7, i would recc waiting for the Lynnfield mobos to come out.
The Asus P7P55D (http://hothardware.com/News/Asus-P7P55D-Premium-Lynnfield-Motherboard-Sneak-Peek/) in particular looks very good.
.

power supply quality is VERY important to having a stable, reliable computer.
some brands which are considered good right now are. Seasonic, Zalman, PC Power & Cooling, Enermax, & some Corsair (the ones based on Seasonic designs, e.g. TX650W, not TX750W which is based on Channel Well designs), or BFG has some good ones that are cheaper. http://www.jonnyguru.com/ is a good site for PSU reviews.

ENERMAX MODU82+ EMD625AWT 625W ATX12V Ver.2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Compatible w/Core i7 Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail $140 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194027)

or if you want to be futureproofed (if you will go 5870 crossfireX {up to 4 cards supported in crossfireX} after they come out)
ENERMAX REVOLUTION85+ ERV950EWT 950W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Compatible w/Core i7 Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194040)
.

Cases. Brands I like. Lian-Li, Antec, Cooler Master

If you have the money I'd recc (though if u have the money for this you'd probably want to go Core i7 as ur not looking for value, just thought i'd show u the best case)
LIAN LI ARMORSUIT PC-P50 Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
$190 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112240)

for bang/buck, nothing beats this atm (note: if you go tri or quad card, get the twelve hundred instead)
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
$105 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021)
.

RAM
Brands i like. Corsair XMS2 or 3, Crucial Ballistix, Patriot


CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TR3X6G1333C9 - Retail $95 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145220)
.

video card, ATi 5870 or 5850. 5850 will probably debut at around $200-250. 5870 will debut around $320-400. 5850 will come w/ 1GB GDDR5. 5870 w/ 1 or 2GB GDDR5.


Hard Drives. I recc the Western Digital Black series, the best drives out atm. Stay away from the Green series, they have reliability problems right now.
.

Sound card. You dont really need one as most mobos come w/ decent sound now. But if you want one for perfect audio there's only 1 card I'd recc.

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional 70SB088600002 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Express Interface Sound Card - Retail
$119 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102019)

[Alex]

I looked up your processor on Newegg, and it alone is $1000. Seems a little overboard to me, but if you've got the cash for it, then more power to you. I'm sure it'll last you a long time, though. The graphics cards sound like a good choice to me if he can get you a good deal on them.

On a side note, RAM is relatively cheap, so I'd get as much as your motherboard will allow. It sounds like your CPU is 64-bit, so the motherboard should be the limiting factor here instead of the CPU (32-bit systems only allow up to 4 GB of RAM).

Thanks for the info everyone, first of all.
On the RAM issue, i think he's putting 8 gigs in, said it could go to twelve, but said in the foreseable future i would never do anything that would need 12gb of ram.

[titanfan]

What kind of games are you planning to run? If you're a hardcore gamer and want to run the latest and greatest stuff, I don't think the setup is overboard.

On the other hand, if we're talking minesweeper and solitaire....

[Alex]

What kind of games are you planning to run? If you're a hardcore gamer and want to run the latest and greatest stuff, I don't think the setup is overboard.

On the other hand, if we're talking minesweeper and solitaire....

Well, im looking to play the new stuff.
Right now i play WoW, and i try other games but they tend to stutter, and i can't run at full graphics.

[bw38]

it's your call of course, but i certainly don't think you need to go overboard and pay that much for a graphics card. it's a bit depressing because in a few months the cost will go down so drastically and newer and better cards will come out. of course that's how it is with all technology, but that's why i personally never go all out on any component. think of it this way, you can do either of these two methods, assuming you're spending $1000 on the video card:
1 ) spend $1000 on video card and not upgrade again for another 4 yrs. the graphics card by then will be out dated.
2 ) spend less $500 on a video card now and upgrade again in 2 yrs if you need to for the same amount. split the money however you wish and upgrade in whatever time you deem necessary.

the point being of course that you probably will get more in the long run out of your money if you don't put all your eggs on a single build right now. again if you have the money, more power to you. just seems overly excessive.

[Rollerblader]

a GTX 260 core 216 is not $1,000. It's standard 150 now.

You can even get a GTX 275 for 150 when u look.

e.g. http://www.frys.com/product/5892363

I still think it's silly to upgrade now though when the P55 Lynnfield, Windows 7, & ATi's DirectX 11 40nm next gen cards are just one month away.

It's your money though :tongue:

[Alex]

Some remarked earlier that my processor was 1000 dollars, which is actually about right.
The cards are nowhere near that, they are actually really resonable, on line with what Roller pointed out.
The processor is excessive, it's basicly intel's "Hey, overclock this" model, and i haven't read anything about something better coming down the pipe, so i'm not skimping on it, and it's by far the most expensive part of the machine.

[jboncha]

I dont know why people insist on buying/building gaming PCs.
You can get a much better and cheaper machine that is compatible with every game made for it when you purchase a console.
The funniest most recent things is that "PC" commercial where a kid and his mom go looking for a gaming PC and they are so wowed that it has BLU RAY.
They had to have paid close to $1000 for that computer when they could have got a PS3 with blu ray for the newly discounted price of $299.

[bw38]

I dont know why people insist on buying/building gaming PCs.
You can get a much better and cheaper machine that is compatible with every game made for it when you purchase a console.
The funniest most recent things is that "PC" commercial where a kid and his mom go looking for a gaming PC and they are so wowed that it has BLU RAY.
They had to have paid close to $1000 for that computer when they could have got a PS3 with blu ray for the newly discounted price of $299.
there's are 2 very good reasons for why people buy/build gaming PCs. 1) it usually has better graphics than the console version of the game and 2) there are sometimes mods for the games that you can use to enhance your gaming experience.

The PS3 has a Blu-Ray player which is all great but it can not do those two things I just mentioned. Btw I have a PS3, but if the game comes out for PC I usually get it for PC unless there's some incentive to really get it for PS3.

[bw38]

btw i completely misread one of the earlier comments and thought it was the video card that was $1000. i see now that it's the CPU. what i said still holds true to some extent for CPUs so long as your motherboard supports newer CPUs that come out 2 yrs later.

[jboncha]

there's are 2 very good reasons for why people buy/build gaming PCs. 1) it usually has better graphics than the console version of the game and 2) there are sometimes mods for the games that you can use to enhance your gaming experience.

The PS3 has a Blu-Ray player which is all great but it can not do those two things I just mentioned. Btw I have a PS3, but if the game comes out for PC I usually get it for PC unless there's some incentive to really get it for PS3.

Those are both very good reasons but for me they wouldnt make up for the difference in price I would end up paying.
I'll stick with my XB360 for games and use my laptop for other things.

[Rollerblader]

I dont know why people insist on buying/building gaming PCs.
You can get a much better and cheaper machine that is compatible with every game made for it when you purchase a console.
The funniest most recent things is that "PC" commercial where a kid and his mom go looking for a gaming PC and they are so wowed that it has BLU RAY.
They had to have paid close to $1000 for that computer when they could have got a PS3 with blu ray for the newly discounted price of $299.

you obviously have never played a modern game on an even mid range gaming PC.

for example. Here is Call of Duty 4. How it will appear on a 1080p TV

On PC (http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/233/iw3sp2008021803484118ss8.jpg)

on consoles (http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1733/1080p6jpgtg9.jpg)

My PC cost around $500 to build 8 months ago and i get 70-80 FPS 1080p most settings at max.

[Alex]

I dont know why people insist on buying/building gaming PCs.
You can get a much better and cheaper machine that is compatible with every game made for it when you purchase a console.
The funniest most recent things is that "PC" commercial where a kid and his mom go looking for a gaming PC and they are so wowed that it has BLU RAY.
They had to have paid close to $1000 for that computer when they could have got a PS3 with blu ray for the newly discounted price of $299.

I skipped blu ray for an entirely different reason :-)
There's a few smaller things i could mention. There are still games that come for the pc that won't come to home systems, off the top of my head, Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2.
One of my big concerns is i still prefer keyboard/mouse over controller, so first person shooters on consoles don't light my fire.

I mentioned i play wow, i can assume i might play another mmo in the future, and that's not happening on the home systems (IE: FF 11 was garbage and i don't have much hope for the sequel, nor do i want to type things in with a controller.)
So, it isn't compatible with all games, it is with some, and we are at the point again where it will look better on a pc then it will on a console, as they tech has reached that point again.
And another thing i didn't mention is i've recently gotten into video recording and editing, and a ps3 or xbox isn't going to let me do that. Also, a cheaper pc wouldn't have the power i want to encode video or even properly run the software.

So, while i wouldn't fight you over your coments, and while i do think sometimes people go "overboard" when you consider upgrades are always around the corner, i wouldn't punt my nice lil pc to the corner in favor of a console.

Edit: So i guess maybe i should have mentioned the none game stuff i was doing, but this is the games boards.

[Rollerblader]

And another thing i didn't mention is i've recently gotten into video recording and editing, and a ps3 or xbox isn't going to let me do that. Also, a cheaper pc wouldn't have the power i want to encode video or even properly run the software.
Actually you can do video work on the PS3, but you need to connect it to PC. And, this might be dead now that sony removed the load OS function from their firmware.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/codecsys-video-encoding-on-ps3-article?page=2

[Tadhg]

I dont know why people insist on buying/building gaming PCs.

Because they have different priorities and wants than you.

You can get a much better and cheaper machine that is compatible with every game made for it when you purchase a console.


Not better.

[Rollerblader]

may not even be cheaper too, depending on how many games you play. PC games generally go for $10 less at launch.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

The correct option is to be like me a get a 360, PS3, Wii, and gaming PC. :tongue:

PC vs. consoles is pretty damn subjective when it comes to what's "better" though. Both ways have advantages over the other. It all really comes down to what the gamer is looking for.

As far as PC gaming goes, though, I find it incredibly frustrating. I almost never get the performace I should be getting with my rig, and I feel like I spend more time troubleshooting than actually playing the damn games sometimes. When it works, it's great...but I would consider console gaming superior simply for the fact that I don't ever have to worry about that kind of stuff. If I actually got the performance that a PC like mine is supposed to have, I would be more inclined to game on it. But it's gotten so frustrating that if a game comes out on both PC and console, 9 times out of 10 I'll just get the console version.

EDIT: Rollerblader, those CoD shots are misleading. CoD4 looks WAY better than that on a PS3. Of course the PC version still looks better, but it's not even close to the difference those screens make it look like. Those screens look like someone forgot to use HD cables to connect their console to their HDTV.

But this thread isn't about PC vs. consoles. Alex, your new system will be fine. In fact, it's kind of overkill. But you should be pretty future-proofed for a while, too. Blizzard games(WoW/Starcraft/Diablo) will pose no problem, as Blizzard never makes their games cutting-edge on the technical end. Most games you will probably be able to max out completely, aside from poorly-optimized ones.

[Alex]

But this thread isn't about PC vs. consoles. Alex, your new system will be fine. In fact, it's kind of overkill. But you should be pretty future-proofed for a while, too. Blizzard games(WoW/Starcraft/Diablo) will pose no problem, as Blizzard never makes their games cutting-edge on the technical end. Most games you will probably be able to max out completely, aside from poorly-optimized ones.

I feel warm and fuzzy now, thank you.

I actually have been doing tons of research since i started this thread just so i can familarize myself with all the ins and outs of pc's.
So thanks for the input everyone.

[Rollerblader]

EDIT: Rollerblader, those CoD shots are misleading. CoD4 looks WAY better than that on a PS3. Of course the PC version still looks better, but it's not even close to the difference those screens make it look like. Those screens look like someone forgot to use HD cables to connect their console to their HDTV.
Nope they're not. They just appear that way because your monitor is displaying them more accurately than your TV. TVs generally have worse color reproduction because of their "dynamic contrast" which actually changes the picture.

The pictures were capped using Digital Foundry equipment w/ forced PS3 upconversion. The fact that the 360 is almost identical means that IW actually used a better than normal software upconversion. (as the 360 almost always has better scaling due to having an ATi AVIVO scaler built into the GPU. The PS3's RSX is broken in that it can only scale horizontally.)

The reason the image looks so bad in comparison is because you're seeing it next to the PC shot that's really 1080p native.

Call of Duty 4 on PS3 & 360 = 1024x600 (2x AA)

see the following links for proof & explanation

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

Some of you might be wondering how games like Call of Duty 4 (1.71:1) , Halo 3(1.8:1) , Metal Gear Solid 4 (4:3) can have rendering resolutions that are not 16:9 aspect ratio. All you need to learn about is anamorphic widescreen. The image is squeezed into the rendered resolution but is then stretched to the proper 16:9 presentation.

Playstation 3
Call of Duty 4 = 1024x600 (2x AA)

Xbox 360
Call of Duty 4 = 1024x600 (2xAA)




http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/x360-vs-ps3-face-off-round-six-article
Both versions are also operating at a sub-HD resolution - 1024x600 to be precise - but the scaling up to both 720p and indeed 1080p looks decent enough thanks to anti-aliasing being present on the base image. Certainly, frame-rate is not an issue; both games run (for the most part) at a smooth 60fps, and I for one would take that arcade-like precision and crispness of response over a boost in resolution any day.

[Rollerblader]

alex, in case you havent been keeping up w/ the tech news.

The LGA 1156 i7 & i5s are out now.

So are P55 mobos

And lots of info on ATi's DX11 5850 & 5870 is coming out.

- double the transistors of the RV770 (4870 & 4890)

- 1600 shaders !!!

- more than double the GFlops

- 5870 plays crysis w/ a MIN of 30FPS & max 55FPS at
1900x1200 4XAA+16AF DX10 Very High
(about the same as 3x 4870s in tri-crossfireX)
* and this is w/ BETA drivers even!

- can out put to 6 displays at once (eyefinity)

[Alex]

alex, in case you havent been keeping up w/ the tech news.

The LGA 1156 i7 & i5s are out now.

So are P55 mobos

And lots of info on ATi's DX11 5850 & 5870 is coming out.

- double the transistors of the RV770 (4870 & 4890)

- 1600 shaders !!!

- more than double the GFlops

- 5870 plays crysis w/ a MIN of 30FPS & max 55FPS at
1900x1200 4XAA+16AF DX10 Very High
(about the same as 3x 4870s in tri-crossfireX)
* and this is w/ BETA drivers even!

- can out put to 6 displays at once (eyefinity)
Someone was telling me about that yesterday.
But my computer is mostly finished at this point, my friend is out of town though so i'm not getting it for a few weeks.
I'm alright with what i got :-)