If Marvel was rebooted, what should be removed from the universe?

[ijffdrie]

just wondering, if the 616 was rebooted(total reboot, not like ultimate) what elements of the marvel universe would you leave out?

[Cloudman]

Jeph Loeb.

[chrissstopher]

and Greg Land

[Sighphi]

/thread. .

[Shellhead]

Mutants. I like the idea of mutants, but the whole persecuted minority thing doesn't fit in with all the other superhumans running around. I would reboot with the mutants in one reality and most of the rest of the Marvel Universe in another reality.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Nothing. Marvel is a cornucopia.

[Monty_Cristo]

stuff i'd leave out:

Pym beating up his ex, Immortus tampering excuse, and Triune Understanding "healing." just establish Pym as an edgy mad scientist from the get-go. Reed's the smartest. Stark's the suavest. Banner's tragic loner. Doom's the tragically arrogant one. and Pym's the pill popping one w/ the science version of "middle child syndrome."

Xorn being Magneto; just let Xorn be his own character since people liked the design so much.

Cyclops poor treatment of Madelyne Pryor & his child.

Scott Lang's death. i think he should have been injured during Disassembled & happily retired of his own free will.

Deadpool's goofier elements. i liked Ryan Reynolds take on him in the first half of Wolverine Origins. he seemed to be more serious minded but w/ a biting sense of humor as you'd expect from a professional killer.

almost everything that Austen did to the X-Men.

Puck's sorceror origin. i think he should have always been an athletic dwarf. there are plenty of other ways to augment that.

everything that happened to Tessa after she left the Hellfire Club's employ. i'm cool w/ her being a spy for Xavier but simple is sometimes better.

Donyell Taylor


Polaris being depowered
---

stuff i'd include:

Sue would have been a talented scientist (& arguably marvel's smartest heroine w/ Alyssa Moy as a rival) herself whose initial admiration for Reed led to a deeper attraction.

Janet Van Dyne would have become a much stronger character after divorcing Pym, kept that characterization, learned to do the Giant-Woman thing of her own accord, & eventually got to the point where she and Pym had a comfortable relationship (w/o being **** buddies).

Osborn would have been a credible threat from the beginning so this Dark Reign stuff would be more believable.

David Alleyne would become the new Night Thrasher after Stamford

the Mad Thinker would organize the last wave of New Warriors & use their anti-authority natures to his own ends; eventually betraying them

Hercules would always been as entertaining as he is now.

[Iron Maiden]

Mutants. I like the idea of mutants, but the whole persecuted minority thing doesn't fit in with all the other superhumans running around. I would reboot with the mutants in one reality and most of the rest of the Marvel Universe in another reality.

It seems that's the way it has been for quite a while. As for the persecution minority thing, I agree...what was the figure before the Genosha disaster, etc...that there were 16 million mutants? I was surprised by that because when I used to read Uncanny X-Men many year ago, I don't recall there being such huge numbers out there. I doubt very much that the average citizen would know that the Beast and Cyclops were mutants yet the Thing and Spider-Man are not.

[RolandJP]

Mutants. I like the idea of mutants, but the whole persecuted minority thing doesn't fit in with all the other superhumans running around. I would reboot with the mutants in one reality and most of the rest of the Marvel Universe in another reality.

I knew a fireman who was trying to save a persons life with CPR..and the person said I would rather die than let your (insert derogatory minority word) lips touch mine. Another example: Famed Country And Western singer Hank William's daughter was in a car accident she was delivered to the hospital. Most of the primary care/emergency personnel were minorities--Hank Williams arrived asked for white doctors and surgeons. This happened in 2005

Now if that could happen in RL, why wouldn't some people be prejudiced against certain segments of the superhero population??

[raskal66]

I'd ix-nay the $3.99 and actually try to attract new readers rather than having the older ones cannibalize themselves in what appears to be a scorched earth policy when it comes to growing interest in the medium. I'd keep all the characters, but do away with overly redundant titles and pointless minis.

Wolverine could use a few less titles. X-Men could be pared down along with the library of Avenges offerings. Without all the excessive overhead from minis and overkill, popular titles that aren't the best sellers like Exiles, AOA, and Captain Britiain might not have to be killed off as quickly.

[XPac]

I'm not a fan of retcons in general. But if they were going to do it anyways...

I'd eliminate everything done with the Beyonder after Secret Wars 2. The retcons there only made things worse. IF they're going to bring him back (which is something I don't think ever needs to happen), bring him back as the Beyonder. Not as a cosmic cube or as an Inhuman or whatever.

I'd retcon Alpha Flights death somehow. That ended up kind of a waste, since Omege Flight never got off the ground anyways.

And I'd retcon away Black Panther's armbar on Surfer, cause that was just really dumb.

[John Zaleski]

before anybody says it, i think sentry should stay! well either just him or captain marvel man. sins past should be removed. wolverine's 5k titles a month. and thats good enough for me :biggrin:

[ijffdrie]

It seems that's the way it has been for quite a while. As for the persecution minority thing, I agree...what was the figure before the Genosha disaster, etc...that there were 16 million mutants? I was surprised by that because when I used to read Uncanny X-Men many year ago, I don't recall there being such huge numbers out there. I doubt very much that the average citizen would know that the Beast and Cyclops were mutants yet the Thing and Spider-Man are not.

32 million actually, half died at genosha

[Iron Maiden]

Wow... thanks for the correction. That's even more than I thought. It's kind of stretching things that a minority anymore. They should have been the most powerful nation on Marvel Earth.

[UserIDGoesHere]

Mutants. I like the idea of mutants, but the whole persecuted minority thing doesn't fit in with all the other superhumans running around. I would reboot with the mutants in one reality and most of the rest of the Marvel Universe in another reality.
I think it worked when there were lots of mutants and more were being born every day. I don't think it makes any sense now for the heroes or villains. They've really ruined the point of the X-Men and what made them different, IMO.

[Berkey]

And I'd retcon away Black Panther's armbar on Surfer, cause that was just really dumb.

LOL yeah I was really not a fan of that myself.

Banshee's death, dammit why?

Sentry, (unless they can depower him by the end of dark reign, getting rid of his void and making him possible to write)

Mutants going back to adventures, rather than everything being about fighting to survive.

Galactus and his vulnerability. it seems as of late he has been getting bested, when i remember way back that he and the Power cosmic had the ability to not only destroy worlds and star systems, but recreate them down the the smallest living thing. I'd like to see he be more of a super powerhouse, which I know makes it harder to write, but what can you do.

That's off the top of my head for now

[Brother Justin Crowe]

Jeph Loeb.

and Greg Land

These.

I'd also alter the origins of some of the characters:
- Frank Castle is a cop and a veteran of some unnamed war. That way, worrying about his age becomes pointless.
- Namor is not a mutant.
- The Fantastic Four, The Hulk, Spider-Man, etc. have the radiation elements removed from their origins, blending their Ultimate beginnings with the Ellis take on their analogues in Planetary.
- Peter Parker never, ever, ever makes a deal with a devil. With great power comes great responsibility, after all.
- Victor van Damme, imprisoned in a concentration camp as a child in World War II, was freed by the joint forces of The Invaders and The Howling Commandos. Years later, upon discovering the identity of Doctor Doom, Steve Rogers and Nick Fury become emotionally conflicted and jaded, and thus begins a personal vendetta against Doom.
- The X-Men are still mutants, but exist in their own pocket universe, as suggested up-thread. This universe may or may not have its own non-superpowered versions of characters like Jen Walters and Matt Murdock (as lawyers, of course), Nick Fury (as head of the FBI), Tony Stark (an industrialist with an alcohol issue and certainly no suit of armor), etc. Non-mutant characters critical to the mythos, including Senator Kelly, Deadpool, Reverend Stryker, Mr. Sinister, Fred Duncan, Juggernaut and others exist in this world. The Shi'Ar, etc., do not, and exist (if at all) solely in the main nuMU. Magneto's name -- and religion -- are unknown, as he has used multiple aliases over the years, including Erik Lensherr, Max Eisenhardt, Magnus Maximoff and others. He was most certainly in Auschwitz and watched helplessly as his family died. He was not part of the Sonderkommando. Only Xavier, Polaris and the Maximoff twins may have any idea as to what his true name may be, and if they know, they're not telling. Cyclops' dad is not a space pirate, because that's stupid. There is no third Summers brother.
- The Eternals also have their own pocket world.

The following rules apply to all universes:
- Time travel is a no-no. Sorry, Cable, Bishop, etc. You guys just complicate things.
- Rules for alternate realities are firmly set in place. No alternate futures -- "there is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
- The rules of magic in nuMarvel are clearly defined from the start, making sure stupidity like "There's no such thing as chaos magic" and One More Day never happen again.
- Time passes in nuMU at an established, set pace. Maybe every five publishing years = one real year. This allows for a sense of realism and the potent sense that things won't be "this way" (whatever that is) forever. It will also allow for more organic storytelling.
- Sorry Norman, Harry, May, Janet, Piotr, Clint, Bobbi, Jean, Steve and everyone else -- dead is dead.

[jarvSthe1]

I'm not a fan of retcons in general. But if they were going to do it anyways...

I'd eliminate everything done with the Beyonder after Secret Wars 2. The retcons there only made things worse. IF they're going to bring him back (which is something I don't think ever needs to happen), bring him back as the Beyonder. Not as a cosmic cube or as an Inhuman or whatever.

i like what Jim Valentino had planned to do with the Beyonder when he was writing Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Berkey]

These.


- Time passes in nuMU at an established, set pace. Maybe every five publishing years = one real year. This allows for a sense of realism and the potent sense that things won't be "this way" (whatever that is) forever. It will also allow for more organic storytelling.
.

I could never understand people's concern over the real age of a character. No offense, but I could care less how long spiderman stays a young man, i mean lets face it if you don't mind reading books about magic, super beings, aliens and gods than the idea of real time aging should be the lest of people's worries of how to make the characters "more real". Like i said each to their own, but I hope to read about nick fury as an old man and spiderman as a late 20's punk when I'm fifty.

[mikekerr3]

If the recent Spider-man reboot is any clue, what would be missing are random things that Joe Q didn't like.

[Berkey]

I think reboots can be helpful (can being the key word, not implying that they should be used) but they usually leave the long time readers trying to place the past evets together, that at the point of the boot would have never happed. look at spiderman, i'm sure we could come up with a ton a little events that technicaly never happed now as of the rebbot, which isn't a crucial detail, but for one's who have been reading the title for a long time those little things mean much more to them.

[Hullababy]

I....hate.....reboots.

That said, retcons done for the greater good are fine. But total reboots are a big NO!

[Just a Shadow]

I don't like reboots but if it had to be done then i'd go with:

- Just about all Doom stuff since and including Unthinkable. I want him to go back to being a man of honor and Unthinkable destroyed much of that. It has subsequently been made much worse with idiot ideas like Doom having a master who taught him about "villainy."

- The Sentry

- OMD. I want the marriage restored but am open to them ending it properly (like a divorce).

[XPac]

i like what Jim Valentino had planned to do with the Beyonder when he was writing Guardians of the Galaxy.

Out of curiosity, what was he going to do with the Beyonder?

[LungerTony]

Mutants. I like the idea of mutants, but the whole persecuted minority thing doesn't fit in with all the other superhumans running around. I would reboot with the mutants in one reality and most of the rest of the Marvel Universe in another reality.

I would drop the persecuted minority mentality of mutants as well.

I would also drop the idea that mutants represent another species separate from the human race as well. It's silly to me.
They are human beings - just mutated human beings. I find it so dumb they act like a separate species from humanity.

[Expletive Deleted]

Out of curiosity, what was he going to do with the Beyonder?Valentino talked a lot about his plans over on the Image message boards (http://www.imagecomics.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=144).

#34—“Down Time II”

Back en route to Earth, Vance is overjoyed at Aleta’s return to corporal form, but he is also royally pissed at his teammates for their actions. Everyone gets a dressing down and Nikki, especially, would change as a result, growing progressively more mature in her actions from this point forward.

As a result of his conversations with Captain America and Marvelboy, not to mention the loss of his shield (Cap, of course, resumes possession of the now single shield), Vance quits his Major Victory personae, dons his familiar black-and-white uniform (sans face mask) and dubs himself Major Astro.

The Guards drop Cap and Marvelboy off on Earth before preparing to return to their own time and Yellowjacket is inducted into the team. They head back to the 31st Century, but their journey will have a couple of detours.

NOTE: It was my plan all along to have Vance give up the Major Victory personae in this story. Vance was, from the start, the presumed leader of the team, but he was always portrayed as being bitter, cynical and whiny. My goal, up to this point—in getting him out of the containment suit, in the loss of Aleta, in his attempt to become an ersatz version of his idol and in his confronting his younger alternative self and Cap, was to bring him to the point where he was his own man, comfortable enough with who he is to BE the leader he was supposed to be.

#35-36—“Amazing Adventures”

On their way to the 31st Century, Dry-Dock hits a time rift and the Guardians find themselves back on Earth shortly after the War of the Worlds, where they meet Killraven.

Now in his fifties, he is a warrior without a war. The Martians have been defeated, the Freemen disbanded and Killraven finds himself wandering aimlessly.

These two issues would have given the full story of what happened to Earth’s super-heroes (the Martians infected them with a virus—a turnaround on the original H.G. Wells story) and finding himself attracted to Yellowjacket (and she to him), he would have joined the team, returning with the Guardians to the far future.

NOTE: My plan here was to have it revealed that Jon Raven was actually the son of Franklin Richards, thus tying his legacy to Marvel’s first family. I’m not sure if they would have let me bend things that far, but I would have given it a shot.

#37-39—“Kang’s Legion”

The Guards finally arrive in their own era, but in the wrong reality. In this dimension, a young Kang has just begun to conquer with the aid of a large and rather familiar group of super-beings.

The Guardians put up a valiant struggle, but are simply outgunned and face their first real defeat. Sensing that their sacrifice would upset the fragile skein of the multi-verse, this reality’s Watcher whisks them back to their own dimension.

NOTE: Kang’s Legion would have been a combination of Force and Rancor’s Lieutenants, finally revealing something that I’d planned all along but no one ever picked up on, despite several hints (such as Interface’s planet, Uloc being Colu spelled backwards, Eightyfive’s costume, etc.). When combined, the two teams Force and the Lieutenants, are the Legion of Super-Heroes. Consider: Interface (Brianiac 5 and Element Lad), Brahl (Phantom Girl), Scanner (Dawnstar), Photon (Wildfire), Shaddo (Shadow Lass), Broadside (Starboy, only she draws her power from planets, not the stars and uses it to increase her own mass/density, hence her strength), Eightyfive (Cosmic Boy in Mon-El drag), Rancor (Timberwolf), Mind-Scan (Saturn Girl), Replica (Chameleon), Blockade (Colossal Boy/Blockade Boy), Blaster (Ultraboy), Tachyon (my idea of Reflecto) and “new Legionnaires” Bat-Wing, Rhodney and Side-Step (although, coincidentally, she would have conformed to Gates who was added to the Legion years after this). To drive the point further home (beyond the story arc’s title) there would have been a couple of new members—Electron (Lightning Lad), Nova (Sun Boy) and a teen-age Gladiator (Superboy). It was Force’s and the Lt.’s powers (and not their physical appearance) that were the key to who they were supposed to be. I had made a conscious effort not to be as obvious as the Imperial Guard, but I guess I was too oblique as no one ever caught it.


#40—“Wedding Day (Down Time III)”

This would have probably been a double-sized issue (if I had my way) as there would be so much ground to cover, with so many characters to catch up on. Needless to say, the Guardians return home, and they and the Galactic Guardians unite as Vance and Aleta tie the knot!

That’s it! No villains, no “action” just a nice romantic story and some character development. Yondu would have presided over the ceremony (of course) and every member of both teams, save Starhawk, would be there. The Galactics would meet the Guards’ new members Killraven and Yellowjacket and the Guards would meet their new member…Gladiator (much to their surprise after meeting a younger version of the character in the Legion story).

#44—“His Name Is Doom”

Picking up on a story thread not mentioned since issue #23, Dr. Doom (NOT in Wolverine’s skeleton—how does one WEAR a skeleton, anyway?), whose consciousness has been transplanted into a robot body, makes his presence known to a honeymooning Vance and Aleta. Recognizing the despot, Vance immediately attacks, but Doom manages to convince him (through the far more level-headed Aleta, no doubt) that he is an ally for a greater threat about to hit the Earth (as predicted in that self-same issue #23).

While Doom will NOT become a Guardian, he will assist them--and probably die heroically early on--in the battle to come (which starts in the very next issue).


#45-50—“The Protégé War”

The entire series would have been building up to this storyline. I saw issue #50 as being double or even triple sized with only splashes and double-splashes (and where, obviously, the shit would truly hit the fan).

The Universal Church of Truth, led by the Protégé, guided by Malevolence and with their new converts, the Stark, invades the Earth! Malevolence’s father, Mephisto will join the young god (most likely killing his daughter along the way). While Force and the Galactic Guardians would join the Guards in trying to protect the planet (I would have figured out some reason or another why Force would join the side of the angels for this battle).

Unfortunately, even with all of their powers, they fail.

The Earth would have been destroyed. Sensing the release of energy, Galactus (the Keeper in tow) rushes there to consume the Earth’s energy. Upon seeing the world-eater, the Protégé attempts to “learn” his power while he’s feasting. The energy backlash causes the youngster to absorb him instead, killing Galactus and sending the Protégé into a comatose state, expelling energy that threatens to destroy the universe. The child is then plucked from Eternity by the Living Tribunal and reverts to his cocoon state Keep in mind the Protege was very similar to Adam Warlock).

Left without their god and with most of their fleet destroyed in battle, the Stark and UCT give up the battle. The Galactics will quarantine the remaining fleet.

In Epilogue 1, we see the fate of the Protégé. His mind wiped completely clean of all his life experiences. His cocoon will become a universe unto itself. Over time, he will age and, as an adult, he will venture back into Eternity’s universe, there to seek the experiences and knowledge he was denied…as the Beyonder!

Epilogue 2: When the smoke clears and the heads have been counted, the Guardians will discover that Vance had been killed (yes, we would have seen him die and we would have seen his body).

#51—“Aftermath”

The Guardians (with Force and the Galactics) bring Vance’s body to Centauri IV where Yondu presides over his funeral. There, each must decide what they’re going to do now. Without Vance, should the team disband?
Killraven and Yellowjacket elect to quit. They will explore the vast universe together. Yondu will stay on Centauri IV and Photon quits Force to join him as his mate. Aleta, Charlie, Nikki and Talon decide to carry on Vance’s work in his honor as the Guardians of the Galaxy. Firelord becomes an active member and Broadside and Eightyfive switch sides to join them. Interface, Tachyon and Scanner take off to find new members for Force, rejecting Marty’s offer to join the Galactic Guardians (who will also continue in Vance’s name).

NOTE: While Vance’s death would shock and disappoint many faithful readers my feeling was that the character had come full circle, becoming the man he had always wanted to be. His death would create a renewed purpose in both teams to live up--not only to his ideals and examples, but also to those of the man he admired most, Captain America.

And then--?

My plan was to take the book to issue #51 and then turn it over…unless more ideas came to me. Had I continued I was fairly certain that I wanted to do at least a full year wherein they met no one with ANY ties to the Marvel Universe. I wanted them to encounter new aliens, new villains and new worlds.

There's more in the link.

[G. Wayne]

before anybody says it, i think sentry should stay! ...

I agree, but the Sentry needs a clarified origin. It's been messed up six ways from the fifth Tuesday of next month since New Avengers. (Unless, of course, that's the idea and it's -supposed- to be some sort of goofy meta-commentary on continuity. But if that's the case, that's pretty dumb too.)