Who's stronger?

[spiderwire]

Who's stronger Cage, Ares, Doc Sampson, Wrecker, Venom, or Thing? Pretty sure Thing is strongest in this group but not sure about Doc or Ares. Can somebody line trhem up maybe add some if you like?

[wayfarejourneyman]

Who's stronger Cage, Ares, Doc Sampson, Wrecker, Venom, or Thing? Pretty sure Thing is strongest in this group but not sure about Doc or Ares. Can somebody line trhem up maybe add some if you like?

Sampson and Ares are in the same league, I think. MacVenom should be pretty powerful too -- the scorpion was already significantly stronger than spiderman -- but less so than Ares. Cage is certainly the low man on the totem poe, abd the wrecker gets weaker when he empowers the wrecking crew.

Does cage still roll around with the Wreckers crowbar?

[FlyingFox]

Sampson and Ares are in the same league, I think. MacVenom should be pretty powerful too -- the scorpion was already significantly stronger than spiderman -- but less so than Ares. Cage is certainly the low man on the totem poe, abd the wrecker gets weaker when he empowers the wrecking crew.

Does cage still roll around with the Wreckers crowbar?

Nope. The Wrecker has his crowbar. Venom and the Wrecker are about equal. Cage is definitely the weakest.

[Kasper Cole]

Nope. The Wrecker has his crowbar. Venom and the Wrecker are about equal. Cage is definitely the weakest.

The crowbar situation is up in the air IMO. To my knowledge Bendis' had Cage keeping the crowbar then out of nowhere he was seen with another one.

Cage is definitely the weakest one out of the group...He needs a bit of a boost IMO, all he has is super strength and unbreakable skin but he fights people WAY stronger than him.

[spiderwire]

1. Hulk
2. Rulk/Juggarnaut
3. Thor/Hercules
4. Apocalypse
5. Namor
6.Blue Marvel/Sentry
7. Thing/Colussus
8. Ares/Doc Sampson/Venom/Strong Guy
9. Shaw/She-Hulk/Ms. Marvel/Wonderman
10. Cage/Spiderman/Moonstone

[GozertheGozarian]

1. Hulk
2. Rulk/Juggarnaut
3. Thor/Hercules
4. Apocalypse
5. Namor
6.Blue Marvel/Sentry
7. Thing/Colussus
8. Ares/Doc Sampson/Venom/Strong Guy
9. Shaw/She-Hulk/Ms. Marvel/Wonderman
10. Cage/Spiderman/Moonstone
Namor is too low. He's stronger than baseline Hulk.

[son of jorel]

1. Hulk
2. Rulk/Juggarnaut
3. Thor/Hercules
4. Apocalypse
5. Namor
6.Blue Marvel/Sentry
7. Thing/Colussus
8. Ares/Doc Sampson/Venom/Strong Guy
9. Shaw/She-Hulk/Ms. Marvel/Wonderman
10. Cage/Spiderman/Moonstone

thor has already shown he can kick juggernauts ass without his forecefield.

wonderman is stronger than thing and colossus apocalypse and arguably namor. he actually got the better of thor in a fist fight. strong guy, venom, doc samson and ares aint doing that.

no way are ares doc samson and venom stronger than she hulk who is class 100. venom is NOT class 100.

rulk has beaten green hulk twice now, and even killed him once.

sentry is stronger than namor ( who needs water to hang with the big boys)

thor rulk and hulk should be at the top. juggy and sentry 2nd places.

[Aelle3]

is there a list of all the top 100 class heroes?

[Jim Thompson]

1. Hulk
2. Rulk/Juggarnaut
3. Thor/Hercules
4. Apocalypse
5. Namor
6.Blue Marvel/Sentry
7. Thing/Colussus
8. Ares/Doc Sampson/Venom/Strong Guy
9. Shaw/She-Hulk/Ms. Marvel/Wonderman
10. Cage/Spiderman/Moonstone
Honestly, I think it's a tie for the number one position between:

Thor
Hulk
Rulk
Hercules
Sentry

[rocky123]

Honestly, I think it's a tie for the number one position between:

Thor
Hulk
Rulk
Hercules
Sentry

I pretty much agree except for Rulk. It was shown that once Thor actually took him seriously Rulk admitted Thor probably could have killed him had Hulk not interfered. Throw Blue Marvel onto the list and I think any one of them could be strongest depending on the needs of the writer.

[Sighphi]

Ares is a god..... why is he being compared to samson (a weak hulk ) and venom?

[rocky123]

Ares is a god..... why is he being compared to samson (a weak hulk ) and venom?

Well honestly, and I fell into this a bit as well, we seem to have twisted the OP's question a bit. His question was simply 'who's stronger' which gradually looks to have become 'who can beat who'. While I agree Venom is a stretch I don't know how far fetched it is to compare Ares to Samson in plain old brute strength. Can Ares destroy him in combat? Most likely, he is the god of war and all. Can he beat him on the bench press? Maybe, maybe not.

With that in mind I'll say my list is:


Hulk
Blue Marvel/Sentry
Thor
Rulk


With the same caveat I mentioned earlier, any of these guys can be #1 depending on the needs of the writer.

[XPac]

is there a list of all the top 100 class heroes?

Here's a partial list, though it's not complete and a bit outdated in some aspects.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/strengthlevels/100.htm

[Hrungr]

Cage, Ares, Doc Sampson, Wrecker, Venom, or Thing

The Thing - strongest of those above, ranked anywhere between Class 85 and low Class 100.

Doc Samson - He is as strong as a calm Green Hulk back in the seventies-eighties (of course, the Hulk's gotten stronger since then). Though we've recently learned that due to Mokok's experiments he can "Hulk out" into the evil "Samson", who is solidly Class 100 (stronger than Jen) and would top this list.

Ares - He's very strong, just a bit under Samson.

Wrecker - probably next in line (especially if he's not power-sharing), though it gets a little nebulous when we get to the mid-tiers. Sometimes Wrecker seems more in Ares-class, othertimes barely above Spidey.

Cage - likely stronger than Wrecker if he's power-sharing, but Cage varies wildly from barely Spidey class to trading blows with guys like the Rhino.

Venom - varies. In his most reserved, human-sized form he's above Spidey, but not to a huge degree. In his more gargantuan forms he's probably near Ares-class.

[adamantiumhip]

sentry is on par with uber hulk- he and hulk fought to a draw (well at least untill he let banner knock him out but that was a free shot).

[son of jorel]

I pretty much agree except for Rulk. It was shown that once Thor actually took him seriously Rulk admitted Thor probably could have killed him had Hulk not interfered. Throw Blue Marvel onto the list and I think any one of them could be strongest depending on the needs of the writer.

yeah but that was odinforce thor. he has since lost that power.

[Hrungr]

sentry is on par with uber hulk- he and hulk fought to a draw (well at least untill he let banner knock him out but that was a free shot).
In WWH Sentry was unleashing massive energy attacks as well as his fists so it wasn't just a contest of strength vs strength. He didn't "let" Banner knock him out though, the Sentry lost control and went all-out and thanked Bruce for stopping him before falling.

[Hrungr]

One thing to keep in mind with the Red Hulk is that is a gamma/cosmic energy absorber too which is why he has an edge against the Hulk. If you look back at some of their earlier fights now you can see it in those times he's got a hold of the Hulk.

[son of jorel]

i'd say red hulk is stronger than green, but green has the ability to eventually get stronger than red.

[Hrungr]

i'd say red hulk is stronger than green, but green has the ability to eventually get stronger than red.
No question Red Hulk's baseline is higher.

[marshal99]

Sasquatch should be up there , he was stronger than hulk's baseline starting out as shown in that hulk annual where they fought. However , once hulk rage grew , he overpowered sasquatch afterwards. Sasquatch was also stronger than thing when they fought in an old issue of marvel 2 in 1.

[Avenger08]

1. Hulk
2. Rulk/Juggarnaut
3. Thor/Hercules
4. Apocalypse
5. Namor
6.Blue Marvel/Sentry
7. Thing/Colussus
8. Ares/Doc Sampson/Venom/Strong Guy
9. Shaw/She-Hulk/Ms. Marvel/Wonderman
10. Cage/Spiderman/Moonstone

Wow SOOOO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS LIST
(im excluding blue marvel because i have little knowledge on the character)

Also, in terms of sheer physical strength-

10. Namor
9. Doc Samson
8. Ms. Marvel/ Moonstone/ Wonderman
7. Ares/ Hercules
6. Colossus
5. The Thing
4. Sentry
3. Rulk
2. Thor
1. Hulk

You REALLLY put Namor in the 5th PLACE!!!!!!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Kasper Cole]

Ares is a god..... why is he being compared to samson (a weak hulk ) and venom?

Ares gets compared to Samson because he's a weak Hercules...Ares seems to be more durable than anything else.

[spiderwire]

Wow SOOOO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS LIST
(im excluding blue marvel because i have little knowledge on the character)

Also, in terms of sheer physical strength-

10. Namor
9. Doc Samson
8. Ms. Marvel/ Moonstone/ Wonderman
7. Ares/ Hercules
6. Colossus
5. The Thing
4. Sentry
3. Rulk
2. Thor
1. Hulk

You REALLLY put Namor in the 5th PLACE!!!!!!!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Yeah, if you look at the list close you would notice 1-6 are true class 100. Namor probably has an edge underwater but wouldn't Thor have one in Asgard and the Hulk in a nuclear storm? Apocalypse is on the list because unlike everybody else his strength has never been tested at upper limits but we know he has to be in the class 100 range.

[GozertheGozarian]

Thing and Collossus are not class 100.

[Hrungr]

Well if you really want to get into a Top Strength list (currently living):

1. Hulk - potentially.
2. Red Hulk/Sentry (full power)/Gladiator (high confidence)/Apocalypse/Count Neferia
3. Thor/Hercules/Beta Ray Bill/Namor (in water)/Gilgamesh/Xenith/WWHulkbuster Iron Man/Juggernaut
4. A-Bomb/Silver Surfer (charged up)/Korg/Atlas/Wendigo (high end one)/"Evil" Samson.
5. Wonderman/She-Hulk/Lyra (Zen Mode)/Colossus/Binary/Groot/Skaar/Molly Hayes (potential)
6. Extremis Iron Man/Thing/Titania
7. Doc Samson (normal)/Ares (only slightly less than Doc.)
8. Thundra/Ms. Marvel (normal)/etc.

[Mobey Wee]

I never think of Wonderman when I consider this list. Anyone have any references? I don't disagree, I'd just like to see him pushing himself.

[son of jorel]

I never think of Wonderman when I consider this list. Anyone have any references? I don't disagree, I'd just like to see him pushing himself.

here you go. pretty impressive:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t361853.html

[Hrungr]

I never think of Wonderman when I consider this list. Anyone have any references? I don't disagree, I'd just like to see him pushing himself.
In the beginning, Simon used to match up well with Thor strength-wise, though his stock has fallen since those days and he's not quite in that class anymore.

[rocky123]

Well if you really want to get into a Top Strength list (currently living):

1. Hulk - potentially.
2. Red Hulk/Sentry (full power)/Gladiator (high confidence)/Apocalypse/Count Neferia
3. Thor/Hercules/Beta Ray Bill/Namor (in water)/Gilgamesh/Xenith/WWHulkbuster Iron Man/Juggernaut
4. A-Bomb/Silver Surfer (charged up)/Korg/Atlas/Wendigo (high end one)/"Evil" Samson.
5. Wonderman/She-Hulk/Lyra (Zen Mode)/Colossus/Binary/Groot/Skaar/Molly Hayes (potential)
6. Extremis Iron Man/Thing/Titania
7. Doc Samson (normal)/Ares (only slightly less than Doc.)
8. Thundra/Ms. Marvel (normal)/etc.

A good list but I can't see Rulk on the same level as a full power Sentry not do I see a charged up Surfer below Namor or on the same level as A-Bomb. I think a charged up Surfer is solidly on par with anyone on this list.

[Mobey Wee]

Where would you puts Juggs after his WWH X-Men 'power-up'?


and just for the record, I'm on board for consistent power up for Luke Cage:biggrin:.

[Kasper Cole]

Where would you puts Juggs after his WWH X-Men 'power-up'?


and just for the record, I'm on board for consistent power up for Luke Cage:biggrin:.

I don't even know if you can call what Cain got a power up, he just got back some of what he had before, he's still not a full power I think. Cain is up there with Rulk, Herc, and Thor...Hulk always gets the number 1 spot, being strong is his thing and you can't really take that from him, just like being fast in the Flashe's thing.

[Hrungr]

A good list but I can't see Rulk on the same level as a full power Sentry not do I see a charged up Surfer below Namor or on the same level as A-Bomb. I think a charged up Surfer is solidly on par with anyone on this list.
In that Tier 2 it's a bit nebulous, you can argue that Sentry uses a lot of EP in his fights with top tiers so his exact strength is uncertain (though clearly very high). Surfer (charged up) used to be solidly on the Thor tier, but he seems to be not quite there in the last couple of decades. He relys on his EP so much that actual strength feats are rare and he's been batted about by the Hulk and a few others during this time. He's gotten a power up from Galactus during Annihilation so perhaps he could reach those levels if he wanted, but I would want to see it first.

[ShaunN]

1. Hulk
2. Rulk/Juggarnaut
3. Thor/Hercules
4. Apocalypse
5. Namor
6.Blue Marvel/Sentry
7. Thing/Colussus
8. Ares/Doc Sampson/Venom/Strong Guy
9. Shaw/She-Hulk/Ms. Marvel/Wonderman
10. Cage/Spiderman/Moonstone

I think that the Sentry should be at the top of this list. Whatever you think of him, it's been established that he is much stronger than baseline Hulk. Also, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the Marvel Handbook put Juggernaut below Thor in raw strength?

[ShaunN]

In the beginning, Simon used to match up well with Thor strength-wise, though his stock has fallen since those days and he's not quite in that class anymore.

Is this established fact? If so, when did WM get depowered? As it is, my recollection is that WM is one of those characters who doesn't get a lot of respect. In his own title, he beat the Abomination and, one time, he even fought the smart Hulk (who is one of the most powerful versions of Hulk) to a standstill.

In his recent appearances in the Avengers, I've had the sense that WM is back near that level though, again, he doesn't get a lot of respect.

On this list, he should be near the top - he's definitely stronger than the Thing, for example.

It's curious - WM is immortal, invulnerable, able to fly, almost as strong as Thor at his regular power levels, capable of increasing his strength and size through ionic power - yet is still seen as a second tier hero! He definitely needs a good writer.

[son of jorel]

I don't even know if you can call what Cain got a power up, he just got back some of what he had before, he's still not a full power I think. Cain is up there with Rulk, Herc, and Thor...Hulk always gets the number 1 spot, being strong is his thing and you can't really take that from him, just like being fast in the Flashe's thing.

i think juggernaut got a lil 'powerup' from cyttorak. juggernaut stood up to and gave wwhulk a good old tussle. not easy since this is arguably hulks strongest incarnation

[ShaunN]

Just a reply to the comment on the Surfer - it seems to me that the Surfer is in a class by himself. He has been consistently portrayed as stronger than the Hulk when he wants to be. (The most recent example is as the Silver Savage on Sakaar). And, through most of their meetings, he has usually easily beaten the Hulk - normally by draining the Hulk's power or forcing a change (such as in Hulk #250).

The Surfer has been portrayed somewhat inconsistently in his meetings with Thor where, for some strange reason, we are often left with the impression that Thor is as powerful as the Surfer - at least in his ability to generate energy, if not in the variety of ways he can use that energy.

However, most recently, the Surfer has been increased in power by Galactus. That means that he is probably a head above anyone on this list, maybe even the Sentry. (Who beat Terrax is about a minute) The newly-powered up Surfer beat the crap out of Beta Ray Bill (who should also be on this list). Bill has been established as Thor's equal, in every way. So that should tell us something about where the Surfer stands now.

(I'm going to explain away the Surfer's dismal showing against Rulk as due to his inexperience with his power and the fact that everything to do with Rulk is so ludicrous that I'm hoping it will all be retconned out of existence at some point!)

[Ken Ashcroft]

Honestly, I think it's a tie for the number one position between:

Thor
Hulk
Rulk
Hercules
Sentry

I wouldn't include the Red Hulk as he's definitely a villian rather than a hero and if you are going to include villians there's a whole gang of them that would be up amongst there.

If you are going to include hero types only then you would also have to include the likes of Beta Ray Bill, the Forgotten One (Gilgamesh), Gladiator and Hyperion (Regular MU version) on your list.

[Hrungr]

Is this established fact? If so, when did WM get depowered? As it is, my recollection is that WM is one of those characters who doesn't get a lot of respect. In his own title, he beat the Abomination and, one time, he even fought the smart Hulk (who is one of the most powerful versions of Hulk) to a standstill.
Simon's gone through a number of changes through the years, energy forms, died, came back, even depowered at one point I think. Currently he we know he's ~Class 100, but he's certainly not in same class as the real heavyweights. Herc beat him soundly in his own book, Korg defeated him in WWH and he hasn't made any real impressive victories in ages. The Hulk in past has taken on whole Avenger lineups with him included and more than once.

[Kasper Cole]

Just a reply to the comment on the Surfer - it seems to me that the Surfer is in a class by himself. He has been consistently portrayed as stronger than the Hulk when he wants to be. (The most recent example is as the Silver Savage on Sakaar). And, through most of their meetings, he has usually easily beaten the Hulk - normally by draining the Hulk's power or forcing a change (such as in Hulk #250).

The Surfer has been portrayed somewhat inconsistently in his meetings with Thor where, for some strange reason, we are often left with the impression that Thor is as powerful as the Surfer - at least in his ability to generate energy, if not in the variety of ways he can use that energy.

However, most recently, the Surfer has been increased in power by Galactus. That means that he is probably a head above anyone on this list, maybe even the Sentry. (Who beat Terrax is about a minute) The newly-powered up Surfer beat the crap out of Beta Ray Bill (who should also be on this list). Bill has been established as Thor's equal, in every way. So that should tell us something about where the Surfer stands now.

(I'm going to explain away the Surfer's dismal showing against Rulk as due to his inexperience with his power and the fact that everything to do with Rulk is so ludicrous that I'm hoping it will all be retconned out of existence at some point!)

The surfer quite simply should never be included on these types of lists. Even before his upgrade he basically had the power to do ANYTHING. He can be as strong, fast, durable, as he needs to be for any given situation.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Simon's gone through a number of changes through the years, energy forms, died, came back, even depowered at one point I think. Currently he we know he's ~Class 100, but he's certainly not in same class as the real heavyweights. Herc beat him soundly in his own book, Korg defeated him in WWH and he hasn't made any real impressive victories in ages. The Hulk in past has taken on whole Avenger lineups with him included and more than once.
Wonderman was briefly boosted up to Hulk/Thor level back in his solo series as a result of some negabomb(?) during the Galactic Storm storyline and he showed this by fighting the Hulk to a standstill which left them wondering :smile: at the end of the fight who was truly stronger but after he was killled again in Forceworks #1, he was brought back in his new purple energy form in the Avengers book by Kurt Busiek and it seemed that he was back to his regular pre-solo series powerlevel. Class 100 but clearly not quite up to the level of Thor/Hulk/Herc.

[rocky123]

Just a reply to the comment on the Surfer - it seems to me that the Surfer is in a class by himself. He has been consistently portrayed as stronger than the Hulk when he wants to be. (The most recent example is as the Silver Savage on Sakaar). And, through most of their meetings, he has usually easily beaten the Hulk - normally by draining the Hulk's power or forcing a change (such as in Hulk #250).

The Surfer has been portrayed somewhat inconsistently in his meetings with Thor where, for some strange reason, we are often left with the impression that Thor is as powerful as the Surfer - at least in his ability to generate energy, if not in the variety of ways he can use that energy.

However, most recently, the Surfer has been increased in power by Galactus. That means that he is probably a head above anyone on this list, maybe even the Sentry. (Who beat Terrax is about a minute) The newly-powered up Surfer beat the crap out of Beta Ray Bill (who should also be on this list). Bill has been established as Thor's equal, in every way. So that should tell us something about where the Surfer stands now.

(I'm going to explain away the Surfer's dismal showing against Rulk as due to his inexperience with his power and the fact that everything to do with Rulk is so ludicrous that I'm hoping it will all be retconned out of existence at some point!)

The surfer quite simply should never be included on these types of lists. Even before his upgrade he basically had the power to do ANYTHING. He can be as strong, fast, durable, as he needs to be for any given situation.

Agreed, that's why I said charged up he's on par with any hero in the MU. He basically uses the power cosmic to augment his strength to whatever level he needs it to be. Like the Hulk, Surfer's baseline is NOWHERE near his upper limit.

[ZNOP]

Thing and Collossus are not class 100.

That's debatable at the very least:biggrin: Dig it:cool:


wikipedia.org (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jamdav86/Strength_level_(comics))

marveldirectory.com (http://www.marveldirectory.com/strengthlevels/100.htm)

marvel.wikia.com (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Strength_Class_100)

herochat.com (http://herochat.com/forum/index.php?topic=167085.0;wap2)

www.comicvine.com (http://www.comicvine.com/strength-level/12-47520/)

[Alphaxman]

Well if you really want to get into a Top Strength list (currently living):

1. Hulk - potentially.
2. Red Hulk/Sentry (full power)/Gladiator (high confidence)/Apocalypse/Count Neferia
3. Thor/Hercules/Beta Ray Bill/Namor (in water)/Gilgamesh/Xenith/WWHulkbuster Iron Man/Juggernaut
4. A-Bomb/Silver Surfer (charged up)/Korg/Atlas/Wendigo (high end one)/"Evil" Samson.
5. Wonderman/She-Hulk/Lyra (Zen Mode)/Colossus/Binary/Groot/Skaar/Molly Hayes (potential)
6. Extremis Iron Man/Thing/Titania
7. Doc Samson (normal)/Ares (only slightly less than Doc.)
8. Thundra/Ms. Marvel (normal)/etc.


I like your list but I would tweak it a little.
Silver Surfer should be high (charged up) and She-Hulk should be high if Jenifer works out. She did beat the Champion and was stronger than Hercules when she got back to Earth.

A-Bomb is a lot weaker than that and Ares beat him pretty thoroughly.

I feel Colossus is always under written. He should be a lot stronger after the Mutant Massacre but he is in the right spot.

Binary should be up there with Thor. She was in the high 100 class strength wise. Carol fully charged should be at that level for a short time.

[son of jorel]

:biggrin:

look at the powers section. now are you gonna say written by 'biased fanboy' or am i?

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Thor_(Thor_Odinson)

[Hrungr]

I like your list but I would tweak it a little.
Silver Surfer should be high (charged up) and She-Hulk should be high if Jenifer works out. She did beat the Champion and was stronger than Hercules when she got back to Earth.
Surfer could potentially be there, but I can't think of any appearance in the last 20 years that would put him there. If he does get a high end strength showing at some point, I'll revise it.

And I agree that Jen's strength after her training with Gamora put her in the Tier 2 category as she was even stronger than Hercules. But it didn't last very long and she's back down low-end Class 100.

A-Bomb is a lot weaker than that and Ares beat him pretty thoroughly.
It's a bit nebulous as I think Ares showing was more skill than brute strength. A-Bomb went toe-to-toe with Red Hulk and fared surprisingly well so I kind of split the difference in my ranking. It could also be that A-Bomb under Rick's control can't tap into A-Bomb's full strength, but that's just conjecture.

I feel Colossus is always under written. He should be a lot stronger after the Mutant Massacre but he is in the right spot.

Binary should be up there with Thor. She was in the high 100 class strength wise. Carol fully charged should be at that level for a short time.
Binary is only really on that level if she absorbs a massive amount of power (like an nuke) so I ranked her more in line with her typical Binary showings.

[son of jorel]

Binary is only really on that level if she absorbs a massive amount of power (like an nuke) so I ranked her more in line with her typical Binary showings.

i think ms marvel should be given her binary powers back if marvel are gonna be pushing this character as the premier female hero ( and bearing the company name) at least giver her the power to back it up.

[Kasper Cole]

i think ms marvel should be given her binary powers back if marvel are gonna be pushing this character as the premier female hero ( and bearing the company name) at least giver her the power to back it up.

I thought she still had her binary powers, she just doesn't use them all that often...

[Hrungr]

I thought she still had her binary powers, she just doesn't use them all that often...
She could only become Binary if she absorbed a high dose of energy and reverted back when she used it up.

[Drdmx]

Can someone clarify regarding The Professor Hulks strength levels? I saw him referred to as the most powerful incarnations in this thread, but isnt this only at baseline? In other words, he's the most powerful incarnation perhaps, but only fresh into a fight?

In fact, didnt the Savage Hulk persona (that beat Onslaught) need the Professor turned off in order to actually get the job done?

I feel as if hands down, the Gravage and Green Scar personalities are one and the same, and that personality is the most powerful incarnation demonstrated to date. (Considering what he was pushed to during WWH).

Oh, and if you consider the Maestros personality to be "The Professor", I would agree. However, its important to keep in mind what the Hulk said about him being "completely mad" and how that could have augmented his strength. Also, the planet at that time was soaked in radiation, in which the Hulks body seemed to soak up, increasing his strength over time.

[adamantiumhip]

In fact, didnt the Savage Hulk persona (that beat Onslaught) need the Professor turned off in order to actually get the job done?
.

Technically, Hulk never beat Onslaught, he played exactly into Onslaught's hands. Onslaught manipulated him.

[adamantiumhip]

In WWH Sentry was unleashing massive energy attacks as well as his fists so it wasn't just a contest of strength vs strength. He didn't "let" Banner knock him out though, the Sentry lost control and went all-out and thanked Bruce for stopping him before falling.


From what I remember, didn't the fight basically go toe to toe untill both men transformed and Banner KO'ed Bob?

To me personally that doesn't count as a Hulk victory since it was their alter egos clashing.

[Drdmx]

Technically, Hulk never beat Onslaught, he played exactly into Onslaught's hands. Onslaught manipulated him.

I read it as him beating the physical manifestation of Onslaught, which really no one else was able to do. The way you say it, it makes it seem as if Onslaught wasnt trying. I really dont think that was the case.

[Hrungr]

Can someone clarify regarding The Professor Hulks strength levels? I saw him referred to as the most powerful incarnations in this thread, but isnt this only at baseline? In other words, he's the most powerful incarnation perhaps, but only fresh into a fight?
The Professor Hulk had a baseline strength that was higher than Savage's and his intelligence and attitude made him quite formidable. He could get angrier/stronger (until he imposed the "Savage Banner" limitation on himself), but he couldn't reach the levels of anger that the Savage or Gravage Hulk could. The strong Banner element kept it in check.

In fact, didnt the Savage Hulk persona (that beat Onslaught) need the Professor turned off in order to actually get the job done?
He did. As the Professor Hulk said, he needed Banner turned "off" (essentially breaking the merger before the "Professor" retcon) so that the Savage Hulk could go foaming-at-the-mouth mad and tackle Onslaught.

I feel as if hands down, the Gravage and Green Scar personalities are one and the same, and that personality is the most powerful incarnation demonstrated to date. (Considering what he was pushed to during WWH).
Agreed. The Gravage/Green Scar Hulk is most dangerous incarnation short of Worldbreaker.

Oh, and if you consider the Maestros personality to be "The Professor", I would agree. However, its important to keep in mind what the Hulk said about him being "completely mad" and how that could have augmented his strength. Also, the planet at that time was soaked in radiation, in which the Hulks body seemed to soak up, increasing his strength over time.
Yeah, decades of absorbing all the fallout radiation certainly helped boost his strength in addition to simply being the Hulk for so long he could anticipate a lot of the younger's actions/tactics.

[Hrungr]

From what I remember, didn't the fight basically go toe to toe untill both men transformed and Banner KO'ed Bob?

To me personally that doesn't count as a Hulk victory since it was their alter egos clashing.
It wouldn't have been if it was just their alter egos clashing from the beginning, but it is a Hulk victory in that they fought until they powered down and Banner finished him off. That said, it's a testament to the Hulk's power in that Banner was able to Hulk out again moments later when Miek skewered Rick and turned into "Worldbreaker" moments after that. It's a good thing Sentry was still taking a nap. :biggrin:

[Ken Ashcroft]

Did Greg Pak make up that part with Sentry turning back to puny powerless Bob because he wasn't allowed to show the Hulk actually overpowering the Sentry in a physical fight? It's just that I've always thought that the Sentry's form was permanent and he doesn't change back and forth like the Hulk does?

Had he ever done that apart from that one story?

[adamantiumhip]

It wouldn't have been if it was just their alter egos clashing from the beginning, but it is a Hulk victory in that they fought until they powered down and Banner finished him off. That said, it's a testament to the Hulk's power in that Banner was able to Hulk out again moments later when Miek skewered Rick and turned into "Worldbreaker" moments after that. It's a good thing Sentry was still taking a nap. :biggrin:

That is true, although world war hulk was retarded overall. I hate that they give hulk this uncappable power limit, might as well be a dc character.

say speaking of which, remember when superman punched him into a mountain and ko'ed him? :D

[rocky123]

Agreed. The Gravage/Green Scar Hulk is most dangerous incarnation short of Worldbreaker.

Does War Hulk not count? Probably not because I believe he was augmented.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Now that Marvel has the rights to Marvel Man/Miracle Man (unless things have changed again), I wonder if he will be introduced into the Regular Marvel Universe and if so, just have powerful he will be compared to the all the elite Marvel strongmen?

[FlyingFox]

Geez, seems like people have a problem with the Hulk being the best.

From what I remember, didn't the fight basically go toe to toe untill both men transformed and Banner KO'ed Bob?

To me personally that doesn't count as a Hulk victory since it was their alter egos clashing.

Why doesn't it count as a victory? Why would the Sentry revert back to Bob unless he was beaten by the Hulk or he expended too much energy? Banner didn't collapse did he? He even hulked out seconds later. Last man standing. Seems like a victory to me.

Does War Hulk not count? Probably not because I believe he was augmented.

Of course he counts. The only thing augmenting him was his own anger and abilities. Thats not unfair is it? Thats like saying the Silver Surfer can't use the power cosmic to augment his own strength.

[Hrungr]

Of course he counts. The only thing augmenting him was his own anger and abilities. Thats not unfair is it? Thats like saying the Silver Surfer can't use the power cosmic to augment his own strength.
While I agree about the Sentry fight, War Hulk (not to be confused with WWH) was augmented by Apocalypse and so was just a one-off.

[Drdmx]

Im sure there's been no connection between the two in panel, but War was essentially Gravage Hulk who was augmented by Apocalypse by the removal of shrapnel from the Hulks head. His power manifested in the Green glow which covered his body.

In World War Hulk we saw a similar effect, albeit not controlled as with the horseman version of fthe Hulk.

Again, the connections never been made in panel, but could the conclusion be drawn that Apocalypse almost gave the Hulk the means to control his anger, and therefore his own strength? Or is that too much of a stretch? Just cause it was drawn differently doesnt mean the two couldnt be related... ya know? That doesnt have to be the explanation, but i think it'd made an interesting way to connect the two.

[rocky123]

Geez, seems like people have a problem with the Hulk being the best.



Why doesn't it count as a victory? Why would the Sentry revert back to Bob unless he was beaten by the Hulk or he expended too much energy? Banner didn't collapse did he? He even hulked out seconds later. Last man standing. Seems like a victory to me.



Of course he counts. The only thing augmenting him was his own anger and abilities. Thats not unfair is it? Thats like saying the Silver Surfer can't use the power cosmic to augment his own strength.

OK, wasn't sure if the implants amped him up in any way but after rereading it looks like all Apocalypse did was remove some shrapnel from his head. This version of the Hulk should then probably be considered the strongest I think. He overloaded the Absorbing Man and stopped Juggernaut in his tracks. No other version of Hulk was able to do that, not even WWH.

[thronzeblast]

Thing and Collossus are not class 100.

I dont know about Thing but Collossus most recent bio has him listed as a 100 tonner thats not the only one I have seen him listed as one either.

[XPac]

I dont know about Thing but Collossus most recent bio has him listed as a 100 tonner thats not the only one I have seen him listed as one either.

I've seen it mentioned in places... but honestly I've never gotten that impression from the actual character.

He seems to come up short against every class 100 guys I've ever seen him against. Juggy, Gladiator, and Hulk all seemed to decisively outclass him.

Sasquach (who isn't listed at class 100) seemed stronger too, though most say Collossus has upgraded since. If he is class 100 he's the celler dweller in that class because I don't think he's got any really good showings against any of the established powerhouses.

[Drdmx]

I think old Petey serves better as a sub class 100. Considering he's part of a team, he sort of works better that way. Being a class 100 on a team sort of takes away from the whole "team" aspect and you start to wonder whats the use of all the others....

[vanhelsing2004]

Ben needs more strength feats like this.

http://enterthestory.com/fantastic_four.html

http://enterthestory.com/images/ff_92a.jpg

[Sabaition]

Who's stronger Cage, Ares, Doc Sampson, Wrecker, Venom, or Thing? Pretty sure Thing is strongest in this group but not sure about Doc or Ares. Can somebody line trhem up maybe add some if you like?

Looks liek some people got off subject.

Last time I heard Ben was high end class 90 brick. Ares is actually been suggested to be low end class 90. So it's between them.

Thing
Ares
Doc Sampson
Wrecker
Cage
Venom

[thronzeblast]

I've seen it mentioned in places... but honestly I've never gotten that impression from the actual character.

He seems to come up short against every class 100 guys I've ever seen him against. Juggy, Gladiator, and Hulk all seemed to decisively outclass him.

Sasquach (who isn't listed at class 100) seemed stronger too, though most say Collossus has upgraded since. If he is class 100 he's the celler dweller in that class because I don't think he's got any really good showings against any of the established powerhouses.

I dont think just being listed as a class 100 puts you in the same league as guys like Hulk, Gladiator, or Thor thier high end and have multiply feats to back it up.Sasquatch is IMO a 100 tonner even if he is not listed as one.

This is a guy that threw a 250 ton DC-10 1000 feet in reverse, crashing into a building even while the engines were still fired up. The engines were stated to produce 150,000 pounds of thrust and dragged a fully equiped destroyer ashore lifted it out of the water while is was repaired and then pushed it back out to sea.

[XPac]

I dont think just being listed as a class 100 puts you in the same league as guys like Hulk, Gladiator, or Thor thier high end and have multiply feats to back it up.Sasquatch is IMO a 100 tonner even if he is not listed as one.

This is a guy that threw a 250 ton DC-10 1000 feet in reverse, crashing into a building even while the engines were still fired up. The engines were stated to produce 150,000 pounds of thrust and dragged a fully equiped destroyer ashore lifted it out of the water while is was repaired and then pushed it back out to sea.

Well, that's the problem with feats like that. Writers don't often do the math.

I recall when the Champion challenged all the Class 100 guys in the MU to a boxing match... guys like Collosus and Sasquach got spanked. Thor, Hulk, and Wonder Man were all DQed (which is kinda lame since they were the strongest guys there... Champion kinda wussed out there), while Thing lasted a few rounds.

To me, that sort of established Sasquach and Thing in the that sub Class 100 region. Sasquach had a few good showings when he first debuted... but everything since then hasn't been too impressive. He got stomped pretty bad by the wrecking crew... She-Hulk for example has done much better against them.

Maybe the problem is Sasquach is strong and he just can't fight, I don't know... but he doesn't really delliver.

[Hrungr]

I dont think just being listed as a class 100 puts you in the same league as guys like Hulk, Gladiator, or Thor thier high end and have multiply feats to back it up.Sasquatch is IMO a 100 tonner even if he is not listed as one.

This is a guy that threw a 250 ton DC-10 1000 feet in reverse, crashing into a building even while the engines were still fired up. The engines were stated to produce 150,000 pounds of thrust and dragged a fully equiped destroyer ashore lifted it out of the water while is was repaired and then pushed it back out to sea.
Sask's had some pretty low showings as well, but I think it's fair to say on average he's around Thing's level. He's hampered a bit by the fact that his durability to penetrating weapons seems to be less than most others in his class. He's been impaled on wooden stakes and shot IIRC.

[Sabaition]

I dont think just being listed as a class 100 puts you in the same league as guys like Hulk, Gladiator, or Thor thier high end and have multiply feats to back it up.Sasquatch is IMO a 100 tonner even if he is not listed as one.

This is a guy that threw a 250 ton DC-10 1000 feet in reverse, crashing into a building even while the engines were still fired up. The engines were stated to produce 150,000 pounds of thrust and dragged a fully equiped destroyer ashore lifted it out of the water while is was repaired and then pushed it back out to sea.

When Sasquatch first appeared he was about Hulk level. However unless his showings have gotten better, he is much weaker. During the Infinity Crusades Thing was one hand choking him out. With Sas claiming he was much weaker the Ben.

However I think him being weaker was part of a some effect from a Alpha Flight event and proble but up to near 100class again.

[marshal99]

When Sasquatch first appeared he was about Hulk level. However unless his showings have gotten better, he is much weaker. During the Infinity Crusades Thing was one hand choking him out. With Sas claiming he was much weaker the Ben.

However I think him being weaker was part of a some effect from a Alpha Flight event and proble but up to near 100class again.

Years before the infinity crusade , sasquatch was overpowering Ben in marvel two in one and was clearly superior in strength and might. However since then , he did die for a while and came back later , his current body is not his original body , his current body was formerly that of his teammate snowbird so maybe why he's not as powerful as before ?

[adamantiumhip]

I read it as him beating the physical manifestation of Onslaught, which really no one else was able to do. The way you say it, it makes it seem as if Onslaught wasnt trying. I really dont think that was the case.

If you recall, Onslaught was holding him down and taunting him while Hulk was getting stronger. Now Onslaught was made up of two fairly smart guys, so I imagine he knew the hulk's ''madder, stronger'' thing.

Once Hulk cracked Onslaught's armour, he was no longer physical, which was his plan all along. How do you beat a being that you can't touch? The only way was for the heroes to sacrafice themselves.

So really, hulk played exactly into onslaught's hands. He just didn't figure on everyone sacraficing themselves to destroy him.

[adamantiumhip]

Geez, seems like people have a problem with the Hulk being the best.



Why doesn't it count as a victory? Why would the Sentry revert back to Bob unless he was beaten by the Hulk or he expended too much energy? Banner didn't collapse did he? He even hulked out seconds later. Last man standing. Seems like a victory to me.

.

And Hulk reverted back to Banner too, so Sentry obviously wore hulk down as well. It doesn't count because it was Banner ko'ing Bob, not sentry being ko'ed by Hulk. They clearly wore each other out, and as you say, Sentry expanded too much energy, not just battling hulk, but pretty much destroying everything around him.

Bannner ko'ed Bob, remember that. Sentry never got ko'ed by Hulk ;)

Also Hulk isn't really the best. Been beaten by Wolverine, the Void, Superman, Batman and many others.

[Sabaition]

Years before the infinity crusade , sasquatch was overpowering Ben in marvel two in one and was clearly superior in strength and might. However since then , he did die for a while and came back later , his current body is not his original body , his current body was formerly that of his teammate snowbird so maybe why he's not as powerful as before ?

Oh snap, I forgot he died... I think was is the reason for the depowered Sas. Unless he's gotten a power up.

[Drdmx]

If you recall, Onslaught was holding him down and taunting him while Hulk was getting stronger. Now Onslaught was made up of two fairly smart guys, so I imagine he knew the hulk's ''madder, stronger'' thing.

Once Hulk cracked Onslaught's armour, he was no longer physical, which was his plan all along. How do you beat a being that you can't touch? The only way was for the heroes to sacrafice themselves.

So really, hulk played exactly into onslaught's hands. He just didn't figure on everyone sacraficing themselves to destroy him.

So your interpetation is that the Hulk released Onslaught unwittingly? Why would he need the Hulk to release him? His armor wasnt a trap... it would make more sense that he just knew he had his final form to fall back on.

Reed Richards made the comment that he was evolving all along. It doesnt make sense that Onslaught would "time" the Hulk cracking his armor at that exact moment and that his evolution was complete at that exact moment and needed someone to release him. I really dont think that's what was happening on panel at all.... or the writer would have made some sort of allusion to it.

[adamantiumhip]

So your interpetation is that the Hulk released Onslaught unwittingly? Why would he need the Hulk to release him? His armor wasnt a trap... it would make more sense that he just knew he had his final form to fall back on.

Reed Richards made the comment that he was evolving all along. It doesnt make sense that Onslaught would "time" the Hulk cracking his armor at that exact moment and that his evolution was complete at that exact moment and needed someone to release him. I really dont think that's what was happening on panel at all.... or the writer would have made some sort of allusion to it.


His armour cracked and released his true form.

Onslaught even has a whole monologue in the book about it from what I remember.


His shell was the thing holding him back, and hulk kindly cracked it for him.

doesn't reed also say they are ''fools'' for not realising onslaught was evolving and unleashing the hulk on him played right into his plans?

I'm pretty sure he says something to that effect but I'd need the issue on hand to correct myself.

[ZNOP]

His armour cracked and released his true form.

Onslaught even has a whole monologue in the book about it from what I remember.


His shell was the thing holding him back, and hulk kindly cracked it for him.

doesn't reed also say they are ''fools'' for not realising onslaught was evolving and unleashing the hulk on him played right into his plans?

I'm pretty sure he says something to that effect but I'd need the issue on hand to correct myself.

No need to go fishing... That's exactly how it went down.

[Drdmx]

It's quickly dissolving into one of those situations where we're almost saying the same thing, where it starts to get repeatitive.

There's no dispute that the Hulk cracked Onslaughts armor.

There's no dispute that he was "evolving" the entire time.

There's also no dispute about what reed said.

What I am saying is that Onslaught wasnt trapped in his armor.

Sure, Hulk cracked the armor, and he had been evolving into thought the entire time. But it doesnt make sense that if he were trapped in his armor, that he would put up any type of resistance against physical force.

You mentioned earlier how Onslaught was a pretty "smart" guy. If he was just waiting until the "bread was ready" to hop out of the oven, why even engage the heroes? He was damn near omnipotent. How smart is it to engage in a battle when he could just wait, and then once he's ready, appear in front of them all and say "Hit me!" What kind of writing would that be?

[adamantiumhip]

It's quickly dissolving into one of those situations where we're almost saying the same thing, where it starts to get repeatitive.

There's no dispute that the Hulk cracked Onslaughts armor.

There's no dispute that he was "evolving" the entire time.

There's also no dispute about what reed said.

What I am saying is that Onslaught wasnt trapped in his armor.

Sure, Hulk cracked the armor, and he had been evolving into thought the entire time. But it doesnt make sense that if he were trapped in his armor, that he would put up any type of resistance against physical force.

You mentioned earlier how Onslaught was a pretty "smart" guy. If he until the "bread was ready" to hop out of the oven, why even engage the heroes? He was damn near omnipotent. How smart is it to engage in a battle when he could just wait, and then once he's ready, appear in front of them all and say "Hit me!" What kind of writing would that be?


But his armour was holding him back and trapping him.

Why do you think Reed says they played right into his hands?

His purest form was trapped inside the armour and he needed out. You said it yourself, if he was evolved and didn't need his armour, why engage them? Why not just come out if his armour wasn't holding him back? The awnser is simple; he needed the armour cracked , and Hulk was the guy to do it.

I'm not sure how you can misinterpret reed saying they played exactly into his hands by destroying his armour for him.

And sure it makes sense for him to resist. Don't you think the heroes would have found it slightly supicious if he suddenly put up no resistance and let them pound on him? Why would they unleash Hulk on him if he were already getting whooped? It makes all kinds of sense for him to fight if you think about it. If he didn't fight and says ''hit me!'' don't you think one of the heroes (including reed and tony, two of the smartest heroes alive) think ''Hmm, gee, maybe if he isn't fighting and wants us to hit him, it might not be the smartest thing to do''? Not to mention, he needed hulk fully enraged. Not really fighting back wouldn't do it.

[babybro]

What I want to know is why very few people are adding blue marvel to their list. People were claiming that he's too powerful to be on a team, and yet he's not even in the majority of people top ten? Even WM is with the avengers most of the time and he's on plenty of people's list.

[Hrungr]

What I want to know is why very few people are adding blue marvel to their list. People were claiming that he's too powerful to be on a team, and yet he's not even in the majority of people top ten? Even WM is with the avengers most of the time and he's on plenty of people's list.
Lol, I completely forgot about BM, I'll amend my list for next time. He's in the same league as Thor & Herc IIRC.

[Drdmx]

But his armour was holding him back and trapping him.

Why do you think Reed says they played right into his hands?

His purest form was trapped inside the armour and he needed out. You said it yourself, if he was evolved and didn't need his armour, why engage them? Why not just come out if his armour wasn't holding him back? The awnser is simple; he needed the armour cracked , and Hulk was the guy to do it.

I'm not sure how you can misinterpret reed saying they played exactly into his hands by destroying his armour for him.

And sure it makes sense for him to resist. Don't you think the heroes would have found it slightly supicious if he suddenly put up no resistance and let them pound on him? Why would they unleash Hulk on him if he were already getting whooped? It makes all kinds of sense for him to fight if you think about it. If he didn't fight and says ''hit me!'' don't you think one of the heroes (including reed and tony, two of the smartest heroes alive) think ''Hmm, gee, maybe if he isn't fighting and wants us to hit him, it might not be the smartest thing to do''? Not to mention, he needed hulk fully enraged. Not really fighting back wouldn't do it.

There was no misinterpetation of what Reed said. Reed meant that his final form was what he was after all along. Not since the beginning of that specific battle.


As far as his resistance, youre taking what I said out of context. It's Onslaught. The guy that at the time was one step down from omnipotence. He teleports. He can go intangible. He doesnt even need to BE at the scene of the battle. If he's waiting to finish evolving so that Hulk can hit him hard enought to crack his armor, he can just wait until he's ready, appear in front of them all, and let them attack. Again, it doesnt make sense that he'd even engage them ahead of time if his armor was a trap.


At the end of the day, I suppose it's open to interpetation. You just have to go by what you see in panel. You apparently are basing your contention solely on what Reed and Onslaught said. I'll go by what they said as well, but I'll just apply it to a larger scale.

I think Onslaught overestimated himself, and underestimated the heroes. You saw it many times during the event when he was caught off guard or weakened after a fight. (Rogue and Vision merging to break through his force field and stagger him). Hulk cracking his armor and defeating his physical form was just another example of the same thing.

[jarrod]

Captain Britain is stronger than all of them! Combined! When he feels like it! :biggrin:

[adamantiumhip]

There was no misinterpetation of what Reed said. Reed meant that his final form was what he was after all along. Not since the beginning of that specific battle.


As far as his resistance, youre taking what I said out of context. It's Onslaught. The guy that at the time was one step down from omnipotence. He teleports. He can go intangible. He doesnt even need to BE at the scene of the battle. If he's waiting to finish evolving so that Hulk can hit him hard enought to crack his armor, he can just wait until he's ready, appear in front of them all, and let them attack. Again, it doesnt make sense that he'd even engage them ahead of time if his armor was a trap.


At the end of the day, I suppose it's open to interpetation. You just have to go by what you see in panel. You apparently are basing your contention solely on what Reed and Onslaught said. I'll go by what they said as well, but I'll just apply it to a larger scale.

I think Onslaught overestimated himself, and underestimated the heroes. You saw it many times during the event when he was caught off guard or weakened after a fight. (Rogue and Vision merging to break through his force field and stagger him). Hulk cracking his armor and defeating his physical form was just another example of the same thing.


It's not really open to interpretation though.

Reed has a monologue about it. Onslaught has a monologue about it. Reed basically admits that Hulk smashing his armour is what Onslaught wanted all allong.

I don't really see how you can see that as ''open to interpretation''.

[rocky123]

What I want to know is why very few people are adding blue marvel to their list. People were claiming that he's too powerful to be on a team, and yet he's not even in the majority of people top ten? Even WM is with the avengers most of the time and he's on plenty of people's list.

Yep, I had BM on my list along with Hulk, Thor, Sentry and Hercules. I must admit though that I knew nothing about WM and after seeing this thread I checked out a respect thread on him and he had some damn impressive strength showings particularly a one handed toss of one of his workout dumbbells that Thing admitted he was lucky to even be picking up.

[Drdmx]

It's not really open to interpretation though.

Reed has a monologue about it. Onslaught has a monologue about it. Reed basically admits that Hulk smashing his armour is what Onslaught wanted all allong.

I don't really see how you can see that as ''open to interpretation''.

Canon is only what you see in panel. Im looking at the issue as I type this.

Onslaught says the he is no longer a physical force that can be blugeoned into submission, that he is thought itself, and how thought equals reality. Where in that monologue does he say he suckers the Hulk into cracking his armor?


Reed says theyve been fools, and that he's been evolving all along, that they now see his final form, and he's free to spread across the world. Thats not an admission that they shouldnt have dealt with Onslaughts physical form. It's a statement referring to no one catching on that he had been evolving from the start.

"Basically admitting" sounds alot more like going with the "open to interpretation" approach to me. But hey, to each his own...

[adamantiumhip]

Canon is only what you see in panel. Im looking at the issue as I type this.

Onslaught says the he is no longer a physical force that can be blugeoned into submission, that he is thought itself, and how thought equals reality. Where in that monologue does he say he suckers the Hulk into cracking his armor?


Reed says theyve been fools, and that he's been evolving all along, that they now see his final form, and he's free to spread across the world. Thats not an admission that they shouldnt have dealt with Onslaughts physical form. It's a statement referring to no one catching on that he had been evolving from the start.

"Basically admitting" sounds alot more like going with the "open to interpretation" approach to me. But hey, to each his own...

Ok, so basically, Hulk beat him by making him uber powerful and god like?

Yay Hulk then, if his interpretation of ''beating someone'' means making them a billion times more powerful. Ha.


And let's use common sense here, if the guy's goal was to break from his shell and become psionic energy, wouldn't it make sense to get the strongest guy in the group he's fighting to smash his armor so he can break free? Or do you think that he was unevolved up untill the exact moment in time when Hulk broke his shell and he suddenly became god like? Isn't that a bit convienient? He suddenly just evolved as soon as Hulk broke his armour? Please. Let's think about it logically eh?

To me, this seems obvious, but I kinda have this issue that I use common sense and logic :tongue:

[marshal99]

Comic book logic , try not to think too much about it. :wink:

[mikekerr3]

Ares is a god..... why is he being compared to samson (a weak hulk ) and venom?

Balder is a god also and he's about as strong as Spidey, being a god in the MU has surprisingly few benefits. Do you think that SIf is stronger than Strong guy? She's a god also.

Ares is about the same strength as Venom or Samson and until Bendis got to him weaker than people like Wonderman, Colossus or The Thing. He never has been a class 100+ brick

[mikekerr3]

A good list but I can't see Rulk on the same level as a full power Sentry not do I see a charged up Surfer below Namor or on the same level as A-Bomb. I think a charged up Surfer is solidly on par with anyone on this list.
Except when BP has him in a armlock:tongue:

[cduceil]

Here's a partial list, though it's not complete and a bit outdated in some aspects.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/strengthlevels/100.htm

That directory is garbage; it lists 'Galactus' as having Class 100 Strength (bulls * * t). So Galactus creates heralds that rival his physical strength, yeah right.

If you want accurate details of these characters, visit:

http://www.classicmarvelforever.com

[XPac]

That directory is garbage; it lists 'Galactus' as having Class 100 Strength (bulls * * t). So Galactus creates heralds that rival his physical strength, yeah right.

If you want accurate details of these characters, visit:

http://www.classicmarvelforever.com

CLass 100 means anything over 100 tons.

It doens't mean all people who are class 100 have equal strength. Whether you can lift 200 tons or 2 million tons, it's still falls under that category.

[rocky123]

Except when BP has him in a armlock:tongue:

Yeah that was horrible, belongs up there with the Hulk getting constricted by a snake :rolleyes:

[XPac]

Yeah that was horrible, belongs up there with the Hulk getting constricted by a snake :rolleyes:

Yeah, I'm half expecting Black Panther, that snake, and the brick that was thrown at the Silver Surfer back in the day to show up on someone's Class 100 list.

Writer sometimes do funny funny things.

[Ken Ashcroft]

Also Hulk isn't really the best. Been beaten by Wolverine, the Void, Superman, Batman and many others.

Is there anybody who has never been beaten?

[mikekerr3]

Yeah, I'm half expecting Black Panther, that snake, and the brick that was thrown at the Silver Surfer back in the day to show up on someone's Class 100 list.

Writer sometimes do funny funny things.

You say funny, I just use the word stupid myself.

[Drdmx]

Ok, so basically, Hulk beat him by making him uber powerful and god like?

Yay Hulk then, if his interpretation of ''beating someone'' means making them a billion times more powerful. Ha.


And let's use common sense here, if the guy's goal was to break from his shell and become psionic energy, wouldn't it make sense to get the strongest guy in the group he's fighting to smash his armor so he can break free? Or do you think that he was unevolved up untill the exact moment in time when Hulk broke his shell and he suddenly became god like? Isn't that a bit convienient? He suddenly just evolved as soon as Hulk broke his armour? Please. Let's think about it logically eh?

To me, this seems obvious, but I kinda have this issue that I use common sense and logic :tongue:

You seem to enjoy taking what I say and twisting it. I never said Hulk beat Onslaught outright. As a matter of fact, the fartheset I've taken it is that he beat Onslaughts phsycial manifestation. Again, I'm good at just leaving it at that. No win, just no more physical Onslaught.

I also am not the one who stated that Onslaught waited until that exact moment to get his armor cracked, manipulating the Hulk. That was actually you who stated that he was done evolving at that moment. You're right.. very convienient. Feel free to check the issue again, or any database you'd like. Heres two right now in case you need it....

http://marvel.com/universe/Onslaught_%28entity%29

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Onslaught_(Psychic_Entity)

There's no where that it mentions that Onslaught had this grand scheme of manipulating the Hulk at the exact moment he was done evolving. He simply had his armor cracked by the Hulk.

I'll leave it that. I dont know what else to provide you other than the examples of Onslaught underestimating the heroes during the event, references, and dialogue in order to contend with Reeds statement of "He's been evolving all along!" that you seem so desperate to cling to. Common sense indeed...Ha.

[adamantiumhip]

You seem to enjoy taking what I say and twisting it. I never said Hulk beat Onslaught outright. As a matter of fact, the fartheset I've taken it is that he beat Onslaughts phsycial manifestation. Again, I'm good at just leaving it at that. No win, just no more physical Onslaught.

I also am not the one who stated that Onslaught waited until that exact moment to get his armor cracked, manipulating the Hulk. That was actually you who stated that he was done evolving at that moment. You're right.. very convienient. Feel free to check the issue again, or any database you'd like. Heres two right now in case you need it....

http://marvel.com/universe/Onslaught_%28entity%29

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Onslaught_(Psychic_Entity)

There's no where that it mentions that Onslaught had this grand scheme of manipulating the Hulk at the exact moment he was done evolving. He simply had his armor cracked by the Hulk.

I'll leave it that. I dont know what else to provide you other than the examples of Onslaught underestimating the heroes during the event, references, and dialogue in order to contend with Reeds statement of "He's been evolving all along!" that you seem so desperate to cling to. Common sense indeed...Ha.


You misunderstand a lot of things, including the comic actually ;)

It's ok, you just didn't get it.

I never said Onslaught was finished evolving at that moment. He was already evolved, he just needed to break out of his shell. I thought that would be common sense at this point but I suppose not. I never once stated he just evolved at that moment, simply that he needed his armour cracked.to be fully free.

And you should read what reed says. That's called ''exposition'', which is what writers use to divulge plot points and sum things up.

So he had the hulk pinned down, and instead of beating on him, he keeps taunting him? You are saying that you would just taunt the hulk and make him madder, than try to pound him into mush if you truly wanted to beat him? That makes no sense.

It's ok though, I know Hulk fans can't possibly admit that he's not the strongest, because that's why they like him rather than liking his character. I understand your denial :)

[Jess C.H.]

I'm not going to deal with any of the cosmic characters or gods, whith the exception of Thor. Earthbound Marvel characters only for me. OK, top ten, here we go.
1. Apocalypse (Fresh from hybernation)
2.Juggernaut (full power)
2A.Hulk (mad as can be)(exactly how mad can one get?)
4.Thor
5.Hercules
6.Namor
7.Colossus (he's actualy been considered class 100 for the last decade now)
8.Abomination
9.The Thing
10.Captain Brittain

[Frank]

I'm not going to deal with any of the cosmic characters or gods, whith the exception of Thor. Earthbound Marvel characters only for me. OK, top ten, here we go.
1. Apocalypse (Fresh from hybernation)
2.Juggernaut (full power)
2A.Hulk (mad as can be)(exactly how mad can one get?)
4.Thor
5.Hercules
6.Namor
7.Colossus (he's actualy been considered class 100 for the last decade now)
8.Abomination
9.The Thing
10.Captain Brittain

That's a pretty good summation. I would probably put Thor and Herc as equals, however. I don't see why the legendary Hercules of myth should be less strong than Thor in my opinion.