Do 3D graphics artists have a place in comics?

[Wind-Breaker]

I'm an aspiring creator who makes my comics entirely 3d. I don't use poser. I use Maya, where I model, texture, rig, and light every character and scenery that’s in the comic. For a while now I've been searching for others who did the same thing, but unfortunately the most of the 3D artists I could find were doing erotic comics instead of traditional comics. The only exception I could find was John Van Fleet who's work I saw in Batman #663 "The Clown at Midnight".

So I went to the recent Chicago comiccon and brought copies of my comic with me. I searched through the artist alley trying to find someone who does 3D art as well. No luck. During my time there I attended a Greg Horn panel, where he broke down his technique with fans. During that panel, Horn revealed that over 10 years ago he tried 3D art work but editors didn't respond well. Even when he took out the 3d element editors he would still have a tough time, because editors would frown upon any artwork that looked "too digital".

Horn even made the argument on whether 3D artwork was real art or not, because of its surrealistic feel; and if someone had possession of your models/rig/sets they could render and duplicate your works. Horn currently uses a mix of traditional penciling and Photoshop for his works (which btw are outstanding).

So the experience got me questioning whether I should continue going this route or should I ditch the 3D work and focus on being more of a traditional penciler.

But first I wanted ask: As fans or creators, do you feel 3D artwork have its place in comics? Are 3D works any less art than works done via pencil, tablet, or paint? If you do feel that it does have its place, what are some examples (in movies, cartoons, stills etc) that you know of that you think would be an acceptable form of art that could work in a comic?

[Red Jack]

Yes. Provided it's REALLY good. Just like any artist.

If you just discovered POSER or MAYA and start throwing something together, it's not going to rise to the quality standard of mainstream comics. People simply won't want to spend money on it.

Dave Gibbons did this several years ago:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/The_Dome_Ground_Zero.jpg/250px-The_Dome_Ground_Zero.jpg


But this probably wouldn't be acceptable now because we're all so much more sophisticated when it comes to CGI. But, if it doesn't look AT LEAST this good, it's not ready.

Like anything, it's all in the final product. If it's kick ass, people will dig it. If not, not.

[K-DoG7p7]

"3D" art?
NO!
http://blog.cathy-moore.com/wp-content/poser_comic3.png


Digital art?
Yes
http://www.dccomics.com/media/product/1/2/12894_400x600.jpg
(yes I know its a cover.. but he is doing a GN and this is the closest to panels i have seen from him)

[dupont2005]

sure they do. not all comics have to be ink on bristol

[Corrina]

My brain mistranslated this for a minute as "do 3D sapphic artists have a place in comics."

Clearly, I've spent too much time reading particular threads lately.

[Free-Man]

They certainly do!

http://www.comicbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/newavengers43.jpg

[K-DoG7p7]

They certainly do!

http://www.comicbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/newavengers43.jpg

thats not "3d"

[Red Jack]

Mike Saenz did the first digital comic, Shatter

http://img01.otaden.jp/usr/sugaya/shatter_01.jpg (done with a Mac SE and a MOUSE!)

and then this for Marvel

http://www.stuartngbooks.com/saenz_iron_man_crash.jpg


and Pepe Moreno did this for DC

http://i23.tinypic.com/21kmsjq.jpg

there is certainly room for this kind of thing but, again, it has to be excellent.

[K-DoG7p7]

and none of them are 3d

[Red Jack]

Crash and DJ were modeled with software that predates Poser and Maya.

[VRaptorX]

I'm sure you can if you make it more stylized. It would likely be easier since all you'd need to do is just move a character instead of having to redraw them for the 90th time a day. Once you get the style you want it would be a much faster process.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I imediately thought of Sinkha.

http://www.coinbd.com/images/planches/20070610231849_t1.jpg

[Wind-Breaker]

Thanks a bunch for the input and examples guys. On thing I will admit about 3d art is that it’s really difficult to convey movement in frames. Despite the gestures and motion blurring, the frames can still come off as static. Another thing (that K-DoG7p7 pointed out) facial expressions can be tough to differentiate no matter how many blend shapes or expression models are made.

But I think I'm leaning more towards going more of the traditional penciler route (with tablet and Photoshop). Believe it or not, when I went to college to become a 3d artist, I took a bunch of different drawing courses, in addition to courses on color, painting, and other art courses. So I wouldn’t be starting over completely from scratch.

But keep the replies coming I’d like to hear more on how you guys feel about the subject.

[Tetsuo_man]

Angus Mckie who started as a traditional illustrator (and has also worked as a colorist) has done some interesting 3d comics. He did an interesting story he wrote and rendered for the Heavy Metal 20th aniversary hardcover.

[Glitchy]

People forget that 3D is just a tool, just like pen & ink; it's just newer. It's not a short cut - you try to cut corners, it's gonna show. In some ways it's probably harder because you have to shake the cold inorganicness of the medium otherwise things look...odd. (And remember, post production is your friend)

There's an artist by the name of Daniel Scott Gabriel Murphy who does amazing work with Poser and Photoshop.
Renderosity Gallery (http://www.renderosity.com/homepage.php?page=3&userid=29002)
His Homepage (http://www.alpc.com/main.html)
And on a lighter, more cartoony note, there's Dreamland Chronicles (http://www.thedreamlandchronicles.com/?p=4) which uses 3DSM. It's a web comic that's been running since 2006, but the layout is very comicbook-esque.

[JKCarrier]

Theoretically, sure. In practice, the current state of the technology is such that it's really, really difficult to do any kind of "realistic" figure that doesn't come off looking like a creepy mannequin.

There are some artists using 3D software for background elements, though. I remember John Byrne had a whole virtual city that he constructed for use in Wonder Woman. And that series Red Star (http://www.archangel-studios.com/comics/redstar/frame.htm) used a lot of CGI for the military hardware.

[Joshua Pantalleresco]

Ever check out Dreamland Chronicles? 3d is AWESOME if done right in comics.

[Reverend Smooth]

If your 3d art is poser-based (or even Maya, and so on) with no post-processing, absolutely not.

And to convey dynamism, you usually have to break the model's joints.

[Red Jack]

Ever check out Dreamland Chronicles? 3d is AWESOME if done right in comics.

AWESOME is right. I can't believe I forgot that. It's sitting right on my desk!

Run, don't walk.

[Tetsuo_man]

I'll always cite Angus Mckie in these debates because he is always a great creator whether within pencils and ink or whether using CGI.

[ssava]

First off...Thanks guys for mentioning Dreamland.
Much appreciated.

Secondly...
Yes. 3D is definitely a viable option. It's just expensive or time consuming. Or both.
If you're sculpting, rigging, setting up morphs, texturing your own characters. And also designing, texturing, and modelling your environments.
All by yourself. You're going to be a while.

I went the other route.
I hired character designers, modellers,riggers, etc.
Essentially, I write, storyboard, and pose, light, and render.
Cutting out a lot of work (but making it very expensive)

I think at this point in the stage of technology...you have to look at 3D comics as the same as doing an animated feature.
You need a qualified team. And you need a plan.

It's not like picking up a pencil. No matter what anyone says. It's a completely different animal.

I hope that helps. And good luck with your endeavors.
Scott

[ssava]

Some samples of what I've been doing, I guess are in order...

http://www.thedreamlandchronicles.com/comics/2007-03-09.jpg
http://www.thedreamlandchronicles.com/comics/2007-09-06.jpg
http://www.thedreamlandchronicles.com/comics/2008-01-29.jpg
http://www.thedreamlandchronicles.com/comics/2008-07-02.jpg

And feel free to check out the comic online.
www.thedreamlandchronicles.com

Thanks again.

[Red Jack]

dammit.

I effin LOVE that book.

[Night Swordsman]

My brain mistranslated this for a minute as "do 3D sapphic artists have a place in comics."

Clearly, I've spent too much time reading particular threads lately.

ROFLMAO! Best post of the day, Corrina. Thank you.

[Night Swordsman]

Wow. Dreamland Chronicles looks awesome.

[Reverend Smooth]

I hired character designers, modellers,riggers, etc.
Essentially, I write, storyboard, and pose, light, and render.
Cutting out a lot of work (but making it very expensive)

I think at this point in the stage of technology...you have to look at 3D comics as the same as doing an animated feature.
You need a qualified team. And you need a plan.Yeah. To get that level of quality, it really does need to be given that kind of production value. It's either a LOT of work or a LOT of money.

It should be noted that a lot of texture work is like picking up a pencil, but setting up a digital comic is far more complex than posing some poser dorks and pasting on wordbubbles and lensflares.

It's probably much more economical to actually draw it to get the same level of dynamism and detail. If you have the time or money, though...

[Lester C.]

There are some painted comics enhanced with computer graphics that come close to 3d, but other than a War Machine Mini written by Chuck Austen I'm hard pressed to think of any mainstream 3d comics published.

[ssava]

There are some painted comics enhanced with computer graphics that come close to 3d, but other than a War Machine Mini written by Chuck Austen I'm hard pressed to think of any mainstream 3d comics published.

Hey Lester...
I did Spider-Man using 3D back in 2002. It was a learning process. And you can see the progress from issue to issue.

A dream come true. A lot of fun. But definitely not my best work.

It's called Spider-Man Quality of Life.