What social problem do you see being solved by technology?

[o1pickleboy]

With all of our problem in Society it seems like Technology sooner or later will be able to solve one of them. So what problem or problems do you see technology solving for us

Here a few possiblities I have thought of.

Drunk Driving- We built a car that has a autopilot. So there are no drivers anymore just riders.

Abortion- We create a way to transfer the fetus/emybro out of a woman body and can be brought to full term in a another woman body or in a test tube.

[Asmith]

Abortion- We create a way to transfer the fetus/emybro out of a woman body and can be brought to full term in a another woman body or in a test tube.

Why do we need to create new tech (or a slave class of wombs... you evil malevolent crypto-fascist sicko!) to deal with unwanted fetuses (feti?) when the tech to deal with them already exists and works like a charm? A Hoover to suck it out and a shoe to whack it with... If it ain't broke, why fix?

[Michael P]

None. At least, not by itself, and not without creating others.

[Tadhg]

None. At least, not by itself, and not without creating others.

That's not what Star Trek taught me.

[Chris N]

Once energy and goods are overabundant and tedious labor can be left to automation, we can abandon capitalism and begin working to better ourselves and our world.

[Tadhg]

Once energy and goods are overabundant and tedious labor can be left to automation, we can abandon capitalism and begin working to better ourselves and our world.

And assuming that a post-scarcity society does form when the technology emerges; you'll still end up creating new problems, the most prominent being overpopulation.

[Chris N]

And assuming that a post-scarcity society does form when the technology emerges; you'll still end up creating new problems, the most prominent being overpopulation.


I forgot to mention the colonization of other worlds as being a key factor.

[Asmith]

Once energy and goods are overabundant and tedious labor can be left to automation, we can abandon capitalism and begin working to better ourselves and our world.

Plus we can eat all the unemployed blue collar workers... or hunt them as recreation!

[Chris N]

Plus we can eat all the unemployed blue collar workers... or hunt them as recreation!

See Tadgh... lots of solutions to that overpopulation problem you were so worried about.

It will be a sane and perfect world... almost.

[Sean Walsh]

Humanity.


Bring on The Age of the MACHINE!!!

[Asmith]

It will be a sane and perfect world... almost.

And we can invent future tech to fix that too! The desanerator... the inperfecting lens...

[mikekerr3]

None. At least, not by itself, and not without creating others.

Doubling the carrying capacity of the planet, Ending Small pox, and doubling th life expentance of the majority of the people on earth were problems solved by tech

When I was youngPolio was rampant, tech solved that, Famines used to be caused by lack of food availability, now they are caused by thugs in uniforms and are far less common that a few decades ago. the planet makes more than enough food , thanks to tech, to feed even more than it's current population.

Globally infant mortality has decreased 3 fold at least, and Measles, Mumps, Dipteria, Typhiod anm\d TB no longer kill thousands yearly even in the developed world.

Tech has solved many of the worlds problem,s and caused far less problems than it solve, Luddite fantasies aside,

[Asmith]

Tech has solved many of the worlds problem,s and caused far less problems than it solve, Luddite fantasies aside,

That's excessively caring and fuzzy... but where are all the nuclear powered underwater cities filled with robot hookers to cure boredom...?

[o1pickleboy]

That's excessively caring and fuzzy... but where are all the nuclear powered underwater cities filled with robot hookers to cure boredom...?

There are out there.

We just decided to keep you in the dark on them.

[Paul McEnery]

I look forward to the blow up doll that also turns out the light and makes coffee in the morning.

[o1pickleboy]

I look forward to the blow up doll that also turns out the light and makes coffee in the morning.

they had them for a while but they got recalled because of a glitch that had them making decaf

[RolandJP]

With all of our problem in Society it seems like Technology sooner or later will be able to solve one of them. So what problem or problems do you see technology solving for us.

If the past 40 years are any indication.



Better Breast Augmentations and Brain altering chemicals.

[Athena Bast]

Instant translators shut up some ignorant twats.

[Asmith]

I look forward to the blow up doll that also turns out the light and makes coffee in the morning.

Oh sure, that sounds like a good idea... but before we know it they'll want the vote, to drive cars, smoke in public, and get a fair days pay for a fair days inflate-itude... Have we as men learned nothing??

[Chris N]

Instant translators shut up some ignorant twats.

I'd love for my computer to be equipped with a translator which automatically translates internet ramblings into content-filled sensible english.

[RolandJP]

I'd love for my computer to be equipped with a translator which automatically translates internet ramblings into content-filled sensible english.

I it want so too, way can say understand that people can me. lol

[Asmith]

I'd love for my computer to be equipped with a translator which automatically translates internet ramblings into content-filled sensible english.

...or just one that adds missing grammatical particles would be nice...

[howyadoin]

I it want so too, way can say understand that people can me. loliotreally.

[Paradox]

Internet porn addictions can cut down on STDs. :biggrin:

[mgs]

Here a few possiblities I have thought of.

Drunk Driving- We built a car that has a autopilot. So there are no drivers anymore just riders.

Abortion- We create a way to transfer the fetus/emybro out of a woman body and can be brought to full term in a another woman body or in a test tube.
I have to say, those are pretty good.

None. At least, not by itself, and not without creating others.
but, yes. As Michael states, there will always be problems. Particularly with the two aformentioned.

Once energy and goods are overabundant and tedious labor can be left to automation, we can abandon capitalism and begin working to better ourselves and our world.
I would like to think this would be true as I think technology can help with one natural resource, wood. Less paper = more trees and oxygen and hopefully, less pollution.

See Tadgh... lots of solutions to that overpopulation problem you were so worried about.

It will be a sane and perfect world... almost.
Yeah, more people = more greed, and more potential for those, 'at the top' to rule with an iron fist.

When I was youngPolio was rampant, tech solved that, Famines used to be caused by lack of food availability, now they are caused by thugs in uniforms and are far less common that a few decades ago. the planet makes more than enough food , thanks to tech, to feed even more than it's current population.

Globally infant mortality has decreased 3 fold at least, and Measles, Mumps, Dipteria, Typhiod anm\d TB no longer kill thousands yearly even in the developed world.
Surely, you are kidding! O.o

You think people are not starving on the planet today? And in developing nations obessity (using poorly made food) is actually a real concern. To the point that health care is out of control for them. You think because some diseases have (supposedly) been almost nullified (in non-third world nations) that our new diseases and problems have not more than made up for those? Technology has barely 'solved' anything, but instead replaced some of the difficulties of the ancient world with new ones. Technology is nothing without the politics and manpower to support and develop it. Mankind's greed, hatred and inefficency has effectively wiped out any advantages that technology has given us.

Check out this article in TIME for more:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh228/michaelphotos22/TIMEmagonfoodarticle.jpg

[Paradox]

mgs needs a translator?:

You think people are not starving on the planet today?

I don't think he said anything even resembling that.

[K'Nort]

I don't think he said anything even resembling that.

He really didn't.

We need them to hurry up with that translator.

[mgs]

I don't think he said anything even resembling that.

He really didn't.

We need them to hurry up with that translator.
but, it was implied that because there is apparently, 'enough food' that people starving isn't a concern. I admit, i got a little mixed up. but there, now it's straight.

[Paradox]

There IS enough food. It's just not getting to the starving people. I think that's the point he was making.

[Fenris]

The original point about starvation is a good one. Previously, people starved because crop yields were low; which is to say, nature wasn't providing as much as we wanted.

Technology can fix the failings of nature relatively easily. (Relatively!) We have much better crops, and therefore starvation is now mostly about politics.

The general effect of technology is to shift problems from the natural realm to the manmade. There is no plausible technology that could keep a brutal dictatorship from starving its people, because such governments generally control the technology itself.

So if we want to think of problems that will be solved by technology, look at the natural problems that still plague us.

(I guess. Pickle's original post specified "social problems," which... well, many possibilities of social problems being solved by technology veer into the seriously creepy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_of_the_Golds), because they involve relationships between people, and it's disturbing to talk of "solving" that kind of thing by technology rather than personal change.)

Medicine will probably continue to improve, meaning that diseases will become curable or treatable. We'll still die of something, because everyone dies of something eventually; but probably not the same things we die of today.

We'll hopefully learn methods of ecological repair; we will need them.

I doubt we'll ever have weather control, but we'll have buildings that are designed to resist natural disasters better than they do today.

õ
That's all that immediately comes to mind!

[mikekerr3]

Surely, you are kidding! O.o

You think people are not starving on the planet today? And in developing nations obessity (using poorly made food) is actually a real concern. To the point that health care is out of control for them. You think because some diseases have (supposedly) been almost nullified (in non-third world nations) that our new diseases and problems have not more than made up for those? Technology has barely 'solved' anything, but instead replaced some of the difficulties of the ancient world with new ones. Technology is nothing without the politics and manpower to support and develop it. Mankind's greed, hatred and inefficency has effectively wiped out any advantages that technology has given us.

Check out this article in TIME for more:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh228/michaelphotos22/TIMEmagonfoodarticle.jpg

there are 7 billion people in the world today and historically a tiny percentage of them are Starving, With tech from 100 years ago, Billions of those would be dead,

Check out the tech that Norman Borlaug alone developed, that alone saved between a quater and one billion lives

People are alive because of Agri-tech that would not be without it billions of them, starvation in the modern world can be almost exclusively blamed on governments a and armed factions that want it to exist, Of course with out tech hundreds of millions of those alive now would be dead from diseases that medical tech has wiped out or reduced the lethality of.

In my parents lifetimes typhoid and diphtheria outbreaks killed thousands in America at a time, In my lifetime Polio did the same, tech stopped that.

Have you ever had an infection, if so without modern tech the odds are better than 50=50 that you would have been buried days after you noticed. Ever stepped on a nail? You can thank the tech that make tetnus vaccine affordable for your life,

Ever needed an MRI Or A Cat Scan, medical life support after an accident or surgery? Those all require very high tech.

How many tens of thousands did small pox kill last year? Without tech life tends to fit the old description "ugly, brutal and short"

what probless has tech brough that even close to balance out the blessings, I am really curious to hear how many billions technology has killed somehow:biggrin:

[Asmith]

what probless has tech brough that even close to balance out the blessings, I am really curious to hear how many billions technology has killed somehow:biggrin:

Well I suppose if you added up all the worldwide automobile deaths and maimings from the last century...

[mikekerr3]

Well I suppose if you added up all the worldwide automobile deaths and maimings from the last century...

Then reduce that by the number number of deaths that would be caused by horses and slow transportation for things lie Ambulances and fire trucks, i doubt that number would be all that high,

Riding a horse or mule is more dangerous than riding a car, by quite a bit in fact. That's how my unlamented paternal grandfather died, a mule he was beating kicked him in the nads. The mule was put down, and people felt sorry for the mule.

[Paradox]

Heh, just because your car doesn't fight back when you beat it doesn't make it less dangerous. :tongue:

[Asmith]

Then reduce that by the number number of deaths that would be caused by horses and slow transportation for things lie Ambulances and fire trucks, i doubt that number would be all that high,

Riding a horse or mule is more dangerous than riding a car, by quite a bit in fact. That's how my unlamented paternal grandfather died, a mule he was beating kicked him in the nads. The mule was put down, and people felt sorry for the mule.

Well aside from your grandfather's secret fetishes with mules... you never really heard of too many head on horse collisions at 110km an hour...

[Paradox]

No drunk driving accidents, either. Hell, my grandfather counted on that. :wink:

Well, maybe if you let the horse drink, but...

[Asmith]

No drunk driving accidents, either. Hell, my grandfather counted on that. :wink:

Well, maybe if you let the horse drink, but...

Plus they didn't explode if you drove them over a cliff...

[thehod]

We're all geeks here.

Has our hobby not taught us anything?

http://extraordinaryintelligence.com/files/2009/05/terminator_movie__2_.jpg

Less tech people, its the only safe way.

[mikekerr3]

Well aside from your grandfather's secret fetishes with mules... you never really heard of too many head on horse collisions at 110km an hour...

No just being stepped on, kicked and falling off. Slower speeds but it was actually quite dangerous. I've seen stats from that time and it really was more dangeous than driving, at least per mile.

My grand ather was a mule skinner in a mine, so it wasn't a fetish.:biggrin: he died in 1926, Mules were in common use in America until the early fifties

He's unlamented because he thought a horsewhip was equally appropriate to his wife and children as a mule. My grandmother on the other hand brough her 10 children though the depression pretty much on her own.

One good thing about progress is that the evil slime he was would be in jail if he tried that now,:biggrin:

[mikekerr3]

Plus they didn't explode if you drove them over a cliff...

God damn, I hate that movie cliche'

[Asmith]

God damn, I hate that movie cliche'

my favourite part of that cliche is when the cars explode whilst in mid air... hilarious! I recall school yard arguments about all the exploding cars on television - it was generally agreed that American cars must just be made very poorly...

[Paradox]

Well, with the Ford Pinto as an example... :tongue:

"Really, all I did was LOOK at it and...KABLOOEY!"

[K'Nort]

but, it was implied that because there is apparently, 'enough food' that people starving isn't a concern. I admit, i got a little mixed up. but there, now it's straight.


You missed the second part of the same sentence.

Famines used to be caused by lack of food availability, now they are caused by thugs in uniforms and are far less common that a few decades ago.

That clearly says they still happen. Just for political reasons rather than supply reasons. There is absolutely enough food out there now. The breakdown is in distribution. When people starve now, it's because someone in their own government wants them to. Totally separate issue.

[howyadoin]

The breakdown is in distribution. When people starve now, it's because someone in their own government wants them to.Ethiopia, for example.

[o1pickleboy]

Internet porn addictions can cut down on STDs. :biggrin:

but caused a sharp increase in the cases of carpol tunnel

[o1pickleboy]

Why do we need to create new tech (or a slave class of wombs... you evil malevolent crypto-fascist sicko!) to deal with unwanted fetuses (feti?) when the tech to deal with them already exists and works like a charm? A Hoover to suck it out and a shoe to whack it with... If it ain't broke, why fix?

I would say there are million maybe billions that disagree with you

[Michael P]

I would say there are million maybe billions that disagree with you

Quite probably, but even those people are ignoring the disease in favor of the symptom. The real cause of unwanted fetuses is something that, as yet, no amount of technology has been able to solve: Human ignorance and short-sightedness.

[Tadhg]

I would say there are million maybe billions that disagree with you

What about the problem of caring for these children once they're born?

[o1pickleboy]

What about the problem of caring for these children once they're born?

well I can't account for all of them, but I recall there being a desire from couples looking to adopt for babies. So a good percentage would be adopted out.

[Donald M.]

I would say that technology should be used to cure all known diseases and extend the average lifespan to well over 200 years (with the usual signs of aging not showing up until you're at least 160), but public transportation it already crowded as it is.

[Michael P]

well I can't account for all of them, but I recall there being a desire from couples looking to adopt for babies. So a good percentage would be adopted out.

We already have more kids than couples willing to adopt them.

[o1pickleboy]

We already have more kids than couples willing to adopt them.

key word is kids. many couples only want babies.

[Michael P]

key word is kids. many couples only want babies.

I was talking about babies. Where do you think the older kids in long-term foster care come from?

[Tadhg]

Apparently, there are over 1.3 million abortions in the United States each year, that's an awful lot of babies to be adopted.

[o1pickleboy]

I was talking about babies. Where do you think the older kids in long-term foster care come from?

kids that parents lose custody of there kids to the state and/or kids that parent have passed on.


still 1.3 million babies is graves or in foster care?

[Tadhg]

still 1.3 million babies is graves or in foster care?


Do you think Foster care would be able to adequately care for the additional 20+ million children in the system?

[o1pickleboy]

Do you think Foster care would be able to adequately care for the additional 20+ million children in the system?

they would have to be a major increase in taxes and the opening of many many orphanages, but it could be done. The question is would they be enough support. Seems like the amount of money spend by the pro life side of the debate should be able to off set some of the cost

[o1pickleboy]

This discussion brings me to another social problem that could be solved by tech.


Teen pregnancy and unplanned pregs- the development of the fool proof 100% birth control. I can see it being done not as a pill that can be forgotten or a condom that can be broken, but a treatment done at birth that has to be undone to have reproduce. kinda like a vasectomy or tying of tubes only more affective and easier to perform.

[Michael P]

That's one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

[howyadoin]

This discussion brings me to another social problem that could be solved by tech.


Teen pregnancy and unplanned pregs- the development of the fool proof 100% birth control. I can see it being done not as a pill that can be forgotten or a condom that can be broken, but a treatment done at birth that has to be undone to have reproduce. kinda like a vasectomy or tying of tubes only more affective and easier to perform.Yeah, that couldn't possibly cause any health problems.

[Donald M.]

This discussion brings me to another social problem that could be solved by tech.


Teen pregnancy and unplanned pregs- the development of the fool proof 100% birth control. I can see it being done not as a pill that can be forgotten or a condom that can be broken, but a treatment done at birth that has to be undone to have reproduce. kinda like a vasectomy or tying of tubes only more affective and easier to perform.

You want children? Excellent, just pass this basic parental competency test and this genetic screening to ensure your children won't be diseased or deformed at birth or generally unhealthy or be predisposed to any nasty conditions.

Oh, and you'll have to be above a certain income level. The crime rate's simply plummeted since we instituted that one!

You are Christian, right?

[o1pickleboy]

That's one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

Well they all can't be winners

Yeah, that couldn't possibly cause any health problems.

This is internet fantasy tech no health problems at all

You want children? Excellent, just pass this basic parental competency test and this genetic screening to ensure your children won't be diseased or deformed at birth or generally unhealthy or be predisposed to any nasty conditions.

Oh, and you'll have to be above a certain income level. The crime rate's simply plummeted since we instituted that one!

You are Christian, right?

Who writes the questions for this competency test?

nope not a Christian. I consider myself agnostic if anything

[Donald M.]

Well they all can't be winners



This is internet fantasy tech no health problems at all



Who writes the questions for this competency test?

nope not a Christian. I consider myself agnostic if anything

I wasn't actually asking you any questions.

I was imagining a possible set of parenthood requirements in the sort of totalitarian state that would infertilize its citizens at birth in order to control who could have children and who can't.

Who writes the questions for the competency test? Why They do, of course.

The Christian bit was kind of a cheap shot, but really, silly Orson Scott Card novels aside, if anyone takes over this country by force it's gonna be the Conservatives.

Not that anyone will.

[o1pickleboy]

I wasn't actually asking you any questions.

I was imagining a possible set of parenthood requirements in the sort of totalitarian state that would infertilize its citizens at birth in order to control who could have children and who can't.

I see yeah that would be a major drawback of my tech idea. My idea didn't see the government making it mandatory. I was seeing it more of parents electing to having to done to their children to insure no teen pregnancies.

[howyadoin]

This is internet fantasy tech no health problems at allBy that logic, all social problems could be solved by technology. So there's nothing left to discuss.

[Donald M.]

I see yeah that would be a major drawback of my tech idea. My idea didn't see the government making it mandatory. I was seeing it more of parents electing to having to done to their children to insure no teen pregnancies.

That's almost worse.

Never mind the sticky moral issues of doing this to newborn who have no ability to understand or consent to the proceedure, the last thing many parents need is one more way to excuse not bother teaching their children any responsibility.

Then there's the issue of kids not bothering with condoms if they think there's a good chance they're infertile anyway, leading to a higher risk of STDs.

[Donald M.]

By that logic, all social problems could be solved by technology. So there's nothing left to discuss.

Yeah.

Then we'd be stuck in fucking Star Trek, having to seek out new life and new civilizations to stave off our boredom by finding new social problems to solve.

That is what Star Trek was about, right? At least from Next Generation on.

[howyadoin]

Yeah.

Then we'd be stuck in fucking Star Trek, having to seek out new life and new civilizations to stave off our boredom by finding new social problems to solve.Yeah, we'd have to invent robots with emotions, or something equally fucked in the head.

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy needs another key word:

key word is kids. many couples only want babies.

Angelina Jolie aside, most adoptive parents want white babies. :frown:

At least in the U.S.

[Paradox]

Donald M. shows the holes:

You want children? Excellent, just pass this basic parental competency test and this genetic screening to ensure your children won't be diseased or deformed at birth or generally unhealthy or be predisposed to any nasty conditions.

Oh, and you'll have to be above a certain income level. The crime rate's simply plummeted since we instituted that one!

You are Christian, right?

Sigh...it always sounds like a good idea until you start getting into the details. :frown:

[o1pickleboy]

That's almost worse.

Never mind the sticky moral issues of doing this to newborn who have no ability to understand or consent to the proceedure, the last thing many parents need is one more way to excuse not bother teaching their children any responsibility.

Then there's the issue of kids not bothering with condoms if they think there's a good chance they're infertile anyway, leading to a higher risk of STDs.

Like parents are doing such a good job with it now. Even if they did they are fighting uphill battle against teenage hormones.

you win with the STD's

[mikekerr3]

You want children? Excellent, just pass this basic parental competency test and this genetic screening to ensure your children won't be diseased or deformed at birth or generally unhealthy or be predisposed to any nasty conditions.

Oh, and you'll have to be above a certain income level. The crime rate's simply plummeted since we instituted that one!

You are Christian, right?


Christian has nothing to do with it, the question would be if he is an American or believes in basic human rights.

[Asmith]

I see yeah that would be a major drawback of my tech idea. My idea didn't see the government making it mandatory. I was seeing it more of parents electing to having to done to their children to insure no teen pregnancies.

That's called child abuse...

Here are some other ideas that will fit right in to your utopian future of loving caring parents... Stapling the stomaches of chilldren at birth to avoid teen obesity... gene therapy on babies to lower their risk of catching the gay... bathing babies brains in 'uppers' to avoid teen angst... electronic chips implanted in babies that give off electical shocks at the very thought of some words to stamp out teenage swearing... frontal lobotomies for babies to insure no teen rebelousness... Why not future tech to dye all babies the same colour to insure no diversity and the subsequent potential for racism...?

Your near perfect world where orphanages out number prisons and child abuse is done with a smile and a government stamp doesn't appeal to me, Pickles...

[o1pickleboy]

Christian has nothing to do with it, the question would be if he is an American or believes in basic human rights.

yes and whose definiton of basic human rights?

[Tadhg]

That's called child abuse...

Here are some other ideas that will fit right in to your utopian future of loving caring parents... Stapling the stomaches of chilldren at birth to avoid teen obesity... gene therapy on babies to lower their risk of catching the gay... bathing babies brains in 'uppers' to avoid teen angst... electronic chips implanted in babies that give off electical shocks at the very thought of some words to stamp out teenage swearing... frontal lobotomies for babies to insure no teen rebelousness... Why not future tech to dye all babies the same colour to insure no diversity and the subsequent potential for racism...?

Your near perfect world where orphanages out number prisons and child abuse is done with a smile and a government stamp doesn't appeal to me, Pickles...

It appeals to me though!

[howyadoin]

Here are some other ideas that will fit right in to your utopian future of loving caring parents... Stapling the stomaches of chilldren at birth to avoid teen obesity... bathing babies brains in 'uppers' to avoid teen angst...I dunno, those two sound kinda tempting.

[o1pickleboy]

That's called child abuse...

Here are some other ideas that will fit right in to your utopian future of loving caring parents... Stapling the stomaches of chilldren at birth to avoid teen obesity... gene therapy on babies to lower their risk of catching the gay... bathing babies brains in 'uppers' to avoid teen angst... electronic chips implanted in babies that give off electical shocks at the very thought of some words to stamp out teenage swearing... frontal lobotomies for babies to insure no teen rebelousness... Why not future tech to dye all babies the same colour to insure no diversity and the subsequent potential for racism...?

Your near perfect world where orphanages out number prisons and child abuse is done with a smile and a government stamp doesn't appeal to me, Pickles...

well I still disagree with the orphanages, but you all have definitely beat me into a corner on the child sterlization tech. I did not see this coming i will have to start thinking my tech ideas out more. Some of you have given a very grim view of the future and the misuses of tech.

[howyadoin]

Some of you have given a very grim view of the future and the misuses of tech.Most of that is based on the misuses of technology in the present, of course.

[Michael P]

This goes back to what I said earlier: treating the symptom, not the disease. If you want to stop unwanted pregnancies and the consequences thereof, then you need to get everyone to consider the consequences of sex before they have it, and take appropriate measures, every time. If anyone can come up with a technology that can do that, I'll nominate them for the Nobel Prize myself, but I'm not holding my breath.

Technology can make people healthier, better-fed, and longer-lived, but I haven't yet seen the invention that makes people wiser.

[o1pickleboy]

Most of that is based on the misuses of technology in the present, of course.

makes me wonder how many things I will see before I die and all the tech I would wish they could uninvent.

[Donald M.]

Christian has nothing to do with it, the question would be if he is an American or believes in basic human rights.

I already explained that, not interested in explaining it again.

[o1pickleboy]

I already explained that, not interested in explaining it again.

memory enhancers to prevent social confusion from misremembered events.

[Fenris]

well I still disagree with the orphanages, but you all have definitely beat me into a corner on the child sterlization tech. I did not see this coming i will have to start thinking my tech ideas out more. Some of you have given a very grim view of the future and the misuses of tech.

I agree with you about the first part. Orphans have many problems, but at least they're not dead, which makes this a real improvement.

As for the rest of Asmith's list, though, I can see a lot of these things being done by parents. Not control-freakish monster parents, necessarily, but normal people who are subject to all the usual forces of marketing and peer pressure.

("Well, hey, if you want your child to be a little tubbo, that's your business. But we sent our daughter in for the tummy-staple operation a year ago, and it worked out just fine. Personally, I think that a parent who doesn't give their child every advantage probably doesn't love them very much..." )

õ
Once it starts, it becomes hard to say no to!

[Paradox]

o1pickleboy should know the method:

Some of you have given a very grim view of the future and the misuses of tech.

That's what's supposed to be done with new tech. You first question should always be "how can this be horribly abused?" It's why I don't like the whole idea of a cashless society or factory installed GPS in cars.

[Asmith]

I would say there are million maybe billions that disagree with you

So you're saying that there's a very small minority that disagrees with me...

What confuses me is that you seem to be on the side of unwanted people who are in desperate need of being inside a woman to the point of re-structuring taxes and society to accomodate them... yet when unwanted people who are in desperate need of being inside a woman come on the internet you're happy to see them get banned...

[Michael P]

So you're saying that there's a very small minority that disagrees with me...

What confuses me is that you seem to be on the side of unwanted people who are in desperate need of being inside a woman to the point of re-structuring taxes and society to accomodate them... yet when unwanted people who are in desperate need of being inside a woman come on the internet you're happy to see them get banned...

Oh, well done, sir.

[o1pickleboy]

So you're saying that there's a very small minority that disagrees with me...

What confuses me is that you seem to be on the side of unwanted people who are in desperate need of being inside a woman to the point of re-structuring taxes and society to accomodate them... yet when unwanted people who are in desperate need of being inside a woman come on the internet you're happy to see them get banned...

Not to ruin the beauty of your post, but who's banning are you referring to?

[Kusanagi]

Probably mentioned already but, organ transplants the need for blood donation. I see a day where they can make organs and synthetic blood types in a lab. Wouldn't shock me if it happened in my lifetime.

[mikekerr3]

Probably mentioned already but, organ transplants the need for blood donation. I see a day where they can make organs and synthetic blood types in a lab. Wouldn't shock me if it happened in my lifetime.

Blood is pretty close, the military has had pretty good result with synthetic, and no the process will not be classified and will be available for license .

That's for the paranoid among you:biggrin:

[stelok]

Technology is not completely foolproof. All machines can be broken or worn out.
There may be still one defective machine in every one thousand machines.

I'm glad the DNA identification technology has already been patented so it can exonerate the innocents and excruciate the guilty.

I hope they use the cloning technology to bring the extinct animals that we humans killed back to life.

[K'Nort]

well I can't account for all of them, but I recall there being a desire from couples looking to adopt for babies. So a good percentage would be adopted out.

The appeal of babies is the reason that doesn't work. An amazing number of people who go through with giving birth decide they can't give the adorable little thing up after all. By the time they've changed their mind, the kid is a toddler and has gone through all sorts of neglect and abuse, and is thus passed over in favor of an infant from overseas and spends the rest of its life in foster care.

I don't think that's doing it any favors.

[o1pickleboy]

The appeal of babies is the reason that doesn't work. An amazing number of people who go through with giving birth decide they can't give the adorable little thing up after all. By the time they've changed their mind, the kid is a toddler and has gone through all sorts of neglect and abuse, and is thus passed over in favor of an infant from overseas and spends the rest of its life in foster care.

I don't think that's doing it any favors.

Stil as fenris said better than being dead

[K'Nort]

Stil as fenris said better than being dead

I'm not entirely convinced. Especially the ones you regularly see in the paper who get a few years of constant abuse and then die. That's not better.

[o1pickleboy]

I'm not entirely convinced. Especially the ones you regularly see in the paper who get a few years of constant abuse and then die. That's not better.

Well with my transfer tech the child would be remove from the mother who decide that she didn't want the child at the time she chose to have the child removed. The child would either be brought to term in a test tube or in the womb of its adoptive mother.

If it is a test tube the child would end up either be adopted out or in a orphage. If the child is adopted out the same screening process that going on now would apply. If the child ends up in a orphages the same standreds that apply now would be in effect.

If the baby is transfer to it's adoptive mother then that mother would go though all the screenings before she is even considered for the transfer.

I know abuse will still happen nothing is fool proof, but we have that today and no one is suggested instead of adopting out children or putting them in foster care we end there lives.

[Asmith]

Stil as fenris said better than being dead

...it's not all just one issue about what other people who will never be you, Mister Pickle, do with their bodies...

[o1pickleboy]

...it's not all just one issue about what other people who will never be you, Mister Pickle, do with their bodies...

But a woman control over she body is the only thing that makes me pro choice. After that issue is solved I choose life because the rest the problems no matter how hard they seem minor compared to the lives of all these babies

[Tadhg]

If it is a test tube the child would end up either be adopted out or in a orphage. If the child is adopted out the same screening process that going on now would apply. If the child ends up in a orphages the same standreds that apply now would be in effect.


I don't think you can just hand wave away this part. Your hypothetical would increase the number of children in foster care up to 40-times. You're not truly considering the ramifications of such technology.

[o1pickleboy]

I don't think you can just hand wave away this part. Your hypothetical would increase the number of children in foster care up to 40-times. You're not truly considering the ramifications of such technology.

Actually I am seeing the creation of thousands of orphanages across the nation. I see foster care not even being a option. I can see a huge increase in taxes to pay for all these super orphanages the we would have to build and mantain. I can see the cost being either double or triple what our current prison costs are.

All I am saying to me it is still worth it

[Tadhg]

Actually I am seeing the creation of thousands of orphanages across the nation. I see foster care not even being a option. I can see a huge increase in taxes to pay for all these super orphanages the we would have to build and mantain. I can see the cost being either double or triple what our current prison costs are.

All I am saying to me it is still worth it

Why do you think it'd only be double or triple?

[Asmith]

Actually I am seeing the creation of thousands of orphanages across the nation. I see foster care not even being a option. I can see a huge increase in taxes to pay for all these super orphanages the we would have to build and mantain. I can see the cost being either double or triple what our current prison costs are.

All I am saying to me it is still worth it

Isn't that the beginning of the arguement that ends with the same justification for harrassing pregnant women seeking legal medical options and the killing of doctors and the arson attacks on the clinics they work in...?

[K'Nort]

Actually I am seeing the creation of thousands of orphanages across the nation. I see foster care not even being a option. I can see a huge increase in taxes to pay for all these super orphanages the we would have to build and mantain. I can see the cost being either double or triple what our current prison costs are.

All I am saying to me it is still worth it

So you're free with other people's money in addition to their bodies.

And you definitely haven't thought about how much you'd be giving up in your own life in exchange for such a system. Your current education, for one thing.


The thousands of orphanages raises a separate question. That means you're deliberately creating kids that no one wants. Why do that?

[Asmith]

Why do you think it'd only be double or triple?

Well I suppose keeping the kids 2 to 3 to a small cell and feeding them nothing but gruel would seriously keep the costs down...

[o1pickleboy]

Why do you think it'd only be double or triple?

Well I do believe are current prison population was around 20 million. Which will your 1.3 million number times 18 years comes to around 23 million. You have roughly a equal number in population. You remove the cost of prison guards, expensive locks, cells and other equipment to prevent escapes. Then add in the costs for the increase in teachers, children councilors, and increased medical care. That is where I get my number.

[Tadhg]

Well I do believe are current prison population was around 20 million. Which will your 1.3 million number times 18 years comes to around 23 million. You have roughly a equal number in population. You remove the cost of prison guards, expensive locks, cells and other equipment to prevent escapes. Then add in the costs for the increase in teachers, children councilors, and increased medical care. That is where I get my number.

Our current prison population is 2 million not 20.

[o1pickleboy]

Well I suppose keeping the kids 2 to 3 to a small cell and feeding them nothing but gruel would seriously keep the costs down...

the cost of a meal in prison and the cost for a meal in a school cafeteria are about the same.

[o1pickleboy]

Our current prison population is 2 million not 20.

then the cost would be 20 to 30 times. Stil worth it

[K'Nort]

then the cost would be 20 to 30 times. Stil worth it

Worth what?

You're creating a slave labor breeding program that will devastate the national economy and I still can't tell why.

[Tadhg]

then the cost would be 20 to 30 times. Stil worth it

1.2 to 1.8 trillion dollars per year? That's a large chunk of our federal budget.

[Chris N]

I'm all for birth control becoming easier to use and more effective, but I'm not sure mandatory birth control is the way to go.

[StoneGold]

Worth what?

You're creating a slave labor breeding program that will devastate the national economy and I still can't tell why.

Why climb a mountain?

[K'Nort]

I'm all for birth control becoming easier to use and more effective, but I'm not sure mandatory birth control is the way to go.

Then you should be reassured to see that pickle has moved from mandatory birth control to banning it completely.

[Chris N]

Why climb a mountain?

Thanks SG. Exactly the answer I was failing to come up with.

[Tadhg]

Worth what?

You're creating a slave labor breeding program that will devastate the national economy and I still can't tell why.

Ooh. I hadn't considered the slave-labor aspect. Good idea. That could offset the cost. I like it. We don't allow them any status or afford them any rights. A near limitless supply of free labor. We could revolutionize our national economy with that.

[Chris N]

Then you should be reassured to see that pickle has moved from mandatory birth control to banning it completely.

That's good to know.

Finding a middle ground is for suckers.

[Asmith]

then the cost would be 20 to 30 times. Stil worth it

So when does it become not worth it for you...? Where's your 'line' you don't cross? Bankrupting a country and the resulting economic and personal hardship of tens of millions is acceptible to you, so what isn't?

[Chris N]

How many people does it take before it becomes wrong? Hmm? A thousand? Fifty thousand? A million? How many people does it take!

[K'Nort]

Ooh. I hadn't considered the slave-labor aspect. Good idea. That could offset the cost. I like it. We don't allow them any status or afford them any rights. A near limitless supply of free labor. We could revolutionize our national economy with that.

Well if you're factory farming tens of thousands of people incapable of functioning in society, I don't see what else you can do with them.

Well, food.

[Tadhg]

Well if you're factory farming tens of thousands of people incapable of functioning in society, I don't see what else you can do with them.

Well, food.

So after their usefulness as slaves is over, we make them into food and feed them to the next generation of slaves, cutting costs. This gets my official stamp of approval.

[Asmith]

So after their usefulness as slaves is over, we make them into food and feed them to the next generation of slaves, cutting costs. This gets my official stamp of approval.

Hmm... this is beginning to win me over as well... if we can get the little bastards to kill each other in gladitorial combat as well I'm entirely won over!

...This whole concept makes me want to impregnate as many teenage girls as possible and get the games started... though to be honest I didn't really require that much convincing...

[Tadhg]

Hmm... this is beginning to win me over as well... if we can get the little bastards to kill each other in gladitorial combat as well I'm entirely won over!


I was going to say that would just be a waste of resources, but a TV-deal and stadium tickets and concessions? It could make more money than the NFL. So. Another stamp of approval!

And it'd get people to stop complaining about overpaid athletes! Another win!

[Gary_B]

Well if you're factory farming tens of thousands of people incapable of functioning in society, I don't see what else you can do with them.

Well, food.

http://sfappeal.com/news/images/soylent_green-749218.gif

[Asmith]

I was going to say that would just be a waste of resources, but a TV-deal and stadium tickets and concessions? It could make more money than the NFL. So. Another stamp of approval!

And it'd get people to stop complaining about overpaid athletes! Another win!

Plus we could pit them against each other starting at age 5... they would be sooo cute! Their lil' helmets and tiny blood soaked swords, the winners waving their competitor's severed wee little arms about during their victory dances... Not every week of course... that would be a waste of human resources... but wouldn't it be an adorable way to celebrate Mothers Day?

[Mister Blisterfists]

Religion.

Religion will be solved by technology.

[Athena Bast]

Actually I am seeing the creation of thousands of orphanages across the nation. I see foster care not even being a option. I can see a huge increase in taxes to pay for all these super orphanages the we would have to build and mantain. I can see the cost being either double or triple what our current prison costs are.

All I am saying to me it is still worth it

Seeing as how Americans don't want to raise taxes to help the people there are now, this is difficult to fathom.

[Athena Bast]

Ooh. I hadn't considered the slave-labor aspect. Good idea. That could offset the cost. I like it. We don't allow them any status or afford them any rights. A near limitless supply of free labor. We could revolutionize our national economy with that.

Thus begins The Handmaid's Tale.

[Tadhg]

Thus begins The Handmaid's Tale.

Hey now! Men are just as capable of being enslaved as women in my eyes.

[Fenris]

I don't think you can just hand wave away this part. Your hypothetical would increase the number of children in foster care up to 40-times. You're not truly considering the ramifications of such technology.

By all means, let's not handwave away any of it.

The problem with this reform is that so many children will survive that we would have serious problems caring for them all. There are serious foster-care infrastructure issues, and caring for all these children will damage our economy.

So much the worse for the economy, then. The economy exists to improve people's lives, not vice-versa.

Many things would have to change with this sort of reform, no doubt. We'd have to institute a major reform of our foster-care system. (Although if it's really such a disaster of abuse and neglect, it's unclear to me why we shouldn't do that anyway.)

I don't know. I can see that the thread veered into joke territory somewhere along the way (thus leaving me behind in my dorkishness) but this strikes me as a very good, if complicated, idea.

õ
But who knows if we'll ever see it!

[howyadoin]

Probably mentioned already but, organ transplants the need for blood donation.Um... what?

There may be still one defective machine in every one thousand machines. Unless you calculated that on a defective machine.

But a woman control over she body is the only thing that makes me pro choice.If only there were a machine to solve the problem of illiteracy...

[Chris N]

If only there were a machine to solve the problem of illiteracy...

Already wished for earlier in the thread.

I'd love for my computer to be equipped with a translator which automatically translates internet ramblings into content-filled sensible english.

[RolandJP]

Diapers that dispose of themselves.

[K'Nort]

I don't know. I can see that the thread veered into joke territory somewhere along the way (thus leaving me behind in my dorkishness) but this strikes me as a very good, if complicated, idea.

õ
But who knows if we'll ever see it!

I wouldn't call it joke so much as horror because we can't see any line above which the plan is justified.

Which part do you consider good, if complicated?

[Arvandor]

Genetic advances will enable siblings to have children with drastically reduced chance of defects.

Because I guarantee you, before the end of this century, incest will be legal.

[Puma]

Because I guarantee you, before the end of this century, incest will be legal.

and why do you believe this?

[Chris N]

and why do you believe this?

Lots of states are letting the gays marry. Incest and bestiality will naturally follow.

[Michael P]

and why do you believe this?

Maybe it's more of a hope.

[Arvandor]

and why do you believe this?

Two reasons.

1. Many of the arguments used to defend homosexuality, also apply to incest, if you look at it dispassionately.
(Do not take this as anti-gay. I am pro-gay.)

2. The incest-rights movement has already begun. You can see it if you just pay attention. The media and certain segments of the entertainment industry are already taking steps to "normalize" incest.
It's subtle and far from widespread. Yet. But it's there.

So I repeat. Within 50 years the incest movement will be where the gay-rights movement is now. And by the end of the century it will be legal.

So if the thought of siblings getting married bothers you - I suggest you get over it. Fast.

[Puma]

Two reasons.

1. Many of the arguments used to defend homosexuality, also apply to incest, if you look at it dispassionately.
(Do not take this as anti-gay. I am pro-gay.)

2. The incest-rights movement has already begun. You can see it if you just pay attention. The media and certain segments of the entertainment industry are already taking steps to "normalize" incest.
It's subtle and far from widespread. Yet. But it's there.

So I repeat. Within 50 years the incest movement will be where the gay-rights movement is now. And by the end of the century it will be legal.

So if the thought of siblings getting married bothers you - I suggest you get over it. Fast.

Any details/evidence or is this just your opinion?

[Michael P]

Any details/evidence or is this just your opinion?

I would especially like to hear about these subtle incest-normalizing efforts on the part of the media and entertainment industries.

[Puma]

I would especially like to hear about these subtle incest-normalizing efforts on the part of the media and entertainment industries.

Me too.

I think Chris may have called this one.

[Tadhg]

I would especially like to hear about these subtle incest-normalizing efforts on the part of the media and entertainment industries.

Futurama and Arrested Development

[Puma]

Futurama and Arrested Development

Futurama? No one is related IIRC. Now Stewie from that other show has a weird relationship with his Mother.

[Tadhg]

Futurama? No one is related IIRC. Now Stewie from that other show has a weird relationship with his Mother.

Fry is his own grandfather.

[Puma]

Fry is his own grandfather.

Oh yeah, the Roswell episode.

[Tadhg]

Oh yeah, the Roswell episode.

And then there's "The Why of Fry." Total promotion of incest. Incest saves the universe! The agenda can't be more obvious.

[K'Nort]

So I repeat. Within 50 years the incest movement will be where the gay-rights movement is now. And by the end of the century it will be legal.

So if the thought of siblings getting married bothers you - I suggest you get over it. Fast.

I'm missing the connection between 85 years from now and fast.

[Winslow]

I'm missing the connection between 85 years from now and fast.

Yeah, 50 years from now I'll be worm food.

High quality Grade A worm food, but worm food nonetheless.

[Arvandor]

Yeah, 50 years from now I'll be worm food.

High quality Grade A worm food, but worm food nonetheless.

You might, but barring accident or disease I'll still be going.

So, while Fast is hyperbole, it's still inevitable, and I want to be psychologically prepared for the culture shock.

[Athena Bast]

Futurama and Arrested Development

Don't forget Ultimate Quicksilver and Ultimate Scarlet Witch!

[Nick Soapdish]

there are 7 billion people in the world today and historically a tiny percentage of them are Starving, With tech from 100 years ago, Billions of those would be dead,

Check out the tech that Norman Borlaug alone developed, that alone saved between a quater and one billion lives

People are alive because of Agri-tech that would not be without it billions of them, starvation in the modern world can be almost exclusively blamed on governments a and armed factions that want it to exist, Of course with out tech hundreds of millions of those alive now would be dead from diseases that medical tech has wiped out or reduced the lethality of.


That tiny percentage is 13.

13% of people in the world are starving. And the current food production of much of the world is heavily dependent upon fossil fuels and is energy-intensive so we're likely to be running into a problem soon.

Food isn't the real limiting factor though. It's water.

[K'Nort]

That tiny percentage is 13.

13% of people in the world are starving. And the current food production of much of the world is heavily dependent upon fossil fuels and is energy-intensive so we're likely to be running into a problem soon.

Food isn't the real limiting factor though. It's water.

Again, the real limiting factor is politics. For both food and water. The supplies are there. It's the distribution that is (deliberately) limited.

[Fenris]

I wouldn't call it joke so much as horror because we can't see any line above which the plan is justified.

Which part do you consider good, if complicated?

I'd thought it was joking because... well,

Why do we need to create new tech (or a slave class of wombs... you evil malevolent crypto-fascist sicko!) to deal with unwanted fetuses (feti?) when the tech to deal with them already exists and works like a charm? A Hoover to suck it out and a shoe to whack it with... If it ain't broke, why fix?

... This certainly seems like black humor in the standard Asmith mode, rather than a serious policy statement on behalf of the pro-choice momement.

The abortion debate is intractably locked between people who prioritize womens' control over their bodies, and people who prioritize saving their children's lives.

The pro-choice movement rightly argues that pregnancy is dangerous, difficult and lengthy, and is an enormous imposition on women. And that's a very good point. So an artificial womb would radically change the situation. Instead of choosing between abortion and a lengthy pregnancy, they're choosing between fetal destruction and fetal removal.

I consider this good because it saves several million lives, in a way that does not abridge womens' rights over their bodies. If that's not a positive good, then I'm not sure what is.

õ
Not meaning to turn this into an abortion thread!

[K'Nort]

So an artificial womb would radically change the situation. Instead of choosing between abortion and a lengthy pregnancy, they're choosing between fetal destruction and fetal removal.

I consider this good because it saves several million lives, in a way that does not abridge womens' rights over their bodies. If that's not a positive good, then I'm not sure what is.

õ
Not meaning to turn this into an abortion thread!

The artificial womb is hardly the issue. It's the warehousing of tens of thousands of orphans at an economically devastating cost and with no intention of eventual adoption. Especially considering that such a population would only exist if birth control is outlawed.

[Nick Soapdish]

Again, the real limiting factor is politics. For both food and water. The supplies are there. It's the distribution that is (deliberately) limited.

For water?

A lot of those starving people live in areas with scarce water and one of the biggest reasons that the water is getting scarcer is because it's being overused. The abundant water just isn't near those areas.

I agree about food except it's limited in the long term unless we can find a way to make it less fossil-fuel dependent.

[K'Nort]

For water?

A lot of those starving people live in areas with scarce water and one of the biggest reasons that the water is getting scarcer is because it's being overused. The abundant water just isn't near those areas.

There are even more people short on water because it's all being routed for factories and corporate agriculture. Plus there is no interest by the govt in investing in making the stuff that is available actually drinkable.

Which I guess is a variation on being overused. But my main point is that it's not the poor people doing the overusing.

[Gary_B]

Lots of states are letting the gays marry. Incest and bestiality will naturally follow.

It's a slippery, slippery slope!

[Michael P]

It's a slippery, slippery slope!

Speaking of which, anyone know how to take apart a bear trap really quickly?

[thehod]

There are times when I wished there was some form of technology to stop stupid people saying stupid things.

Then I realise that there is, and its been around for years....

http://media.costumesinc.com/costumesinc/SKUimages/large/60456.jpg

[Joe Rice]

Speaking of which, anyone know how to take apart a bear trap really quickly?

I only read the last page of this thread, but I don't need to read anymore. That's my favorite quote.

[Fenris]

The artificial womb is hardly the issue. It's the warehousing of tens of thousands of orphans at an economically devastating cost and with no intention of eventual adoption. Especially considering that such a population would only exist if birth control is outlawed.

Oh, more than tens of thousands. There are about eight hundred thousand abortions a year, so we'd get into the millions of children pretty quickly.

(Of course, numbers change. But since there's no way of guessing how much, or in what direction, we might as well use the statistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Number_of_abortions_ in_United_States) we've got.)

It would indeed cost a lot. And if this is the primary counterargument, then I confess I'm a little taken aback. It's not the prioritization I was expecting, I guess.


About the last point: what? You've lost me here. Who said anything about outlawing birth control?

It's true that, with the general condition of pregnancy avoided, there are much stronger arguments for outlawing abortion. If it's a choice between two different surgical procedures, rather than a choice between full pregnancy and abortion, then the pro-choice position becomes more abstract than functional.

But still, that wasn't what I was thinking of. I doubt that abortion could be banned, even under these circumstances, anytime soon in our political culture.

So why can this situation only exist with legal sanction? If the option were there, even without legal coercion, some women would choose it.

(How many? Who can say? But presumably some will, and with these numbers "some" can amount to quite a lot in objective figures.)


õ
Inconvenient as that may be!

[K'Nort]

Oh, more than tens of thousands. There are about eight hundred thousand abortions a year, so we'd get into the millions of children pretty quickly.

(Of course, numbers change. But since there's no way of guessing how much, or in what direction, we might as well use the statistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Number_of_abortions_ in_United_States) we've got.)

It would indeed cost a lot. And if this is the primary counterargument, then I confess I'm a little taken aback. It's not the prioritization I was expecting, I guess.

What were you expecting?

Adding tens of millions of completely non-functional people to our population would have socio-economic effects that would eclipse pretty much any other issue that I can think of.


And I doubt anyone is objecting to the transfer procedure or doubting that it would be a popular choice. It's the proposed fate of the rest that's the problem.

[Michael P]

It's not the prioritization I was expecting, I guess.


What, how they're going to be cared for during the three score and ten years after they're born, instead of the nine months before?

[Fenris]

What were you expecting?

Adding tens of millions of completely non-functional people to our population would have socio-economic effects that would eclipse pretty much any other issue that I can think of.

"Non-functional people"?

They'll be functional soon enough; it's not like the baby boom crippled our economy in the 1950s, after all. Child care is part of the natural economy; it's another set of needs that stimulates growth.


And I doubt anyone is objecting to the transfer procedure or doubting that it would be a popular choice. It's the proposed fate of the rest that's the problem.

Proposed fate? Proposed by whom? I feel like I'm missing half of the debate here, somehow.

õ
Increasingly baffled!

[Fenris]

What, how they're going to be cared for during the three score and ten years after they're born, instead of the nine months before?

I would like to think that, as functional adults, they would pretty much take of themselves for most of those seventy years.

õ
As well as pay into Social Security!

[K'Nort]

"Non-functional people"?

They'll be functional soon enough; it's not like the baby boom crippled our economy in the 1950s, after all. Child care is part of the natural economy; it's another set of needs that stimulates growth.

Tens of millions of people being raised in orphanages, which have no chance in this country of being a step above Soweto, are not going to emerge capable of functioning peacefully in society or earning more than they cost.



Proposed fate? Proposed by whom? I feel like I'm missing half of the debate here, somehow.

Fate of the people who choose not to go through the extraction process. Especially since part of Pickle's plan is to outlaw abortion as soon as this alternative exists.

[Athena Bast]

Of course, there's the whole thing with the father's rights if wants to raise the child instead of just giving to some other uterus' owner and companion.

I'm thinking a lot of people will get degrees in psychology and psychiatry just to deal with the children.

"I was grown in a vat in my father's basement, Doctor. I feel like some science experiment."

[StoneGold]

What, how they're going to be cared for during the three score and ten years after they're born, instead of the nine months before?

Robots.


Duh.

[Nick Soapdish]

There are even more people short on water because it's all being routed for factories and corporate agriculture. Plus there is no interest by the govt in investing in making the stuff that is available actually drinkable.

Which I guess is a variation on being overused. But my main point is that it's not the poor people doing the overusing.

I haven't kept up on the issue, but the water use by corporate agriculture and factories is generally more of a problem in the developed world. It's becoming a big problem in China.

Poor people aren't the main problem, but they are part of the problem if for no other reason than there are areas that they are overusing the water simply because there are too many people to sustainable support that population, even if they aren't a tenth as wasteful as we are here in the US.

[Chris N]

I think technology is like beer:

the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems

[Asmith]

I'd thought it was joking because... well,

... This certainly seems like black humor in the standard Asmith mode, rather than a serious policy statement on behalf of the pro-choice momement.
Well it was meant to be funny... but I'm a little more concerned that I have a 'standard' mode... makes me feel so damn... predictable! ...sigh...

And you're quite correct, no one should confuse me with a serious policy statement!

The abortion debate is intractably locked between people who prioritize womens' control over their bodies, and people who prioritize saving their children's lives.
That's a typo probably... but if not... well both of those are pro-choice. It's the interfering in other peoples childrens lives and bodies that causes the whoo-ha...

And for the exactly zero amount of people who are interested in what my stance is... I'm pro-choice, and to whatever extent a guy can have a choice in these matters (not the deciding vote anyway) but history has shown that my choice has always been to keep it. That's what pro-choice is about after all... choice. I don't believe that early stage fetuses are the same as people and even if I was convinced otherwise I still wouldn't have a problem with abortion.

...but I still think my original post on the topic was funnier...

Not meaning to turn this into an abortion thread!
heh. I don't think anyone has tried to do that... Reading over the thread you can see people going to quite some lengths to avoid the word 'abortion'... nobody wants yet another abortion thread - we know how they turn out and no one gets swayed either way. But I do get your viewpoint re: the highly hypothetical argument being discussed, and agree with it in essence, I just come down on the otherside from you is all.

I haven't kept up on the issue, but the water use by corporate agriculture and factories is generally more of a problem in the developed world. It's becoming a big problem in China.

Poor people aren't the main problem, but they are part of the problem if for no other reason than there are areas that they are overusing the water simply because there are too many people to sustainable support that population, even if they aren't a tenth as wasteful as we are here in the US.

So what we need is some kind of future tech that can reduce the number of poor people... I'm thinking something along the lines of a giant atomic powered robot called Mr. Stompy...

[o1pickleboy]

Technology could do a great job possibly in the areas of addiction. To date we have only had the addicts arrest their problem and relied on their will power to defeat it.

With studies on the brains of alcoholics scientists have discovered that alcohol bonds with dopamine and serotonin in the system. The combine form of all three of these together creates a super-addictive substance in the body. If science were able to inhibit the formation of this substance or reduce it. It could potentially reduce the number of alcoholics in the world. By reducing them it would greatly reduce societal problems caused by them. Drunk Driving, Broken homes, poverty, the beer vote

[Alexander the immortal]

I think addiction is something more deep than that. i.e I believe it has to do with memory as well.

if one was Alcoholic or one who was addicted to cigarettes (and still is actually) but stopped , often one cigarette or drink can bring back to the surface the addiction as strong as it was before he quit.



.........

But then again , if they where never addicted in the first place then they maybe wouldn't have to face that problem... (Their addiction being a part of the memory)

[o1pickleboy]

Biological Kids for Gay couples.

Scientist discover a way to create life from the combination of any two humans. meaning that the DNA of two men or two women can be join together just like it is at conception. Solves the problem that nature has created by allowing gay couple to have biological families and taking another step in the direction of equality

[Vakanai]

After reading this thread, I am convinced that we already have the technology to solve all social problems: Nukes. Because the only real social problem is humanity.

I for one hope technology never solves the one and only social problem, cause I rather like existing, despite the fact reality is a horrid place.

[Paul McEnery]

And you're quite correct, no one should confuse me with a serious policy statement!

OTOH, you're rarely, if ever, found in a teabagger's mouth.

[Michael P]

Biological Kids for Gay couples.

Scientist discover a way to create life from the combination of any two humans. meaning that the DNA of two men or two women can be join together just like it is at conception. Solves the problem that nature has created by allowing gay couple to have biological families and taking another step in the direction of equality

Hard-core homophobes will still call it unnatural and immoral.

Hell, legislation already on the books in some states to prevent human cloning may already outlaw it.

And, of course, all those kids not getting adopted now will continue to go unadopted, so it's not much of a solution from their point of view.

[o1pickleboy]

OTOH, you're rarely, if ever, found in a teabagger's mouth.

too bad you couldn't say the same.

[Asmith]

OTOH, you're rarely, if ever, found in a teabagger's mouth.

I'm not quite sure what that means... but I'll go with 'thank you'!

[Paul McEnery]

too bad you couldn't say the same.

Better that than the other way round!

[o1pickleboy]

Hard-core homophobes will still call it unnatural and immoral.

Hell, legislation already on the books in some states to prevent human cloning may already outlaw it.

And, of course, all those kids not getting adopted now will continue to go unadopted, so it's not much of a solution from their point of view.

Homophobia is a different social problem. This wouldn't change the hardliners they would be homophobes with or without Biological kid for gay couples.