What if the corpse in Batman's grave is....

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

...the Earth-Two Batman?

This is not a theory; this is pure dreaming on my part. I have no idea who'd have switched them and why. However, it would provide a very convenient Bruce Wayne body (should have the same DNA; could have fooled Superman in FC #6) and fit well with the Multiverse's return. If the Multiverse is back, then why can't E-2 Batman's grave and body be as well?

Plus, then we could have a Black Lantern Earth-2 Batman. We're getting a Black Lantern Earth-2 Superman, so I think it's only fair. You just know Black Hand is going to turn those bones into a BL at some point; this would make for a really fun twist.

Your thoughts?

[Sijo]

Hey, not a bad theory. But the E-2 Batman was decades older than the current one, surely his bones would show signs of aging any good autopsy would notice?

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Batman is always prepared for anything, so Earth-2 Batman did NOT have osteoperosis. :biggrin:

[The Chief5425]

Hey, not a bad theory. But the E-2 Batman was decades older than the current one, surely his bones would show signs of aging any good autopsy would notice?

Do we know that an autopsy was done? I'd think not, particularly since they're trying to keep Bruce Wayne's death quiet.

It's a great theory!

[Captain Jim]

Or, for that matter, the other Batman that was in Countdown - the one who gave Jason the Red Robin costume.

[Jake V]

My personal theory is that its the Batman from Earth-51, everyone was dead there (making it appealing to Black Hand/Nekron), so its not like anyone would be missing it, and since thats where the new gods eventually went, they might have already had a connection to there.

[Captain Jim]

My personal theory is that its the Batman from Earth-51, everyone was dead there (making it appealing to Black Hand/Nekron), so its not like anyone would be missing it, and since thats where the new gods eventually went, they might have already had a connection to there.

Is that the same earth I alluded to above? My copies of Countdown are buried away, and I can't remember.

[Jake V]

Is that the same earth I alluded to above? My copies of Countdown are buried away, and I can't remember.

Might be. I dunno, I never read Countdown.

[Captain Jim]

You're lucky. :biggrin:

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

I've read that Batman's cowl supposedly looked different between when Darkseid zapped him and when Superman found him. I need to dig out my copy of FC #6. Can anybody confirm? If so, does it look like any other particular dead Batman?

Again, this is not a theory. If it were a theory, I'd have clues to back it up. This is a hypothesis.

[nepenthes]

I've read that Batman's cowl supposedly looked different between when Darkseid zapped him and when Superman found him. I need to dig out my copy of FC #6. Can anybody confirm? If so, does it look like any other particular dead Batman?

When Batman approaches Darkseid we can see three holes in his cowl from when he was hooked up to the machine in Last Rites. The corpse that Superman holds clearly doesn't have these holes anymore. it may not or may not be signifigant

[DonC]

If that turned out to the be the case, I would throw my hands up in disgust and then come on here and complain about how much I hate the infinite/52 Earths concept.

[Angelo2113]

When Batman approaches Darkseid we can see three holes in his cowl from when he was hooked up to the machine in Last Rites. The corpse that Superman holds clearly doesn't have these holes anymore. it may not or may not be signifigant

I noticed that too, but I was just thinking it was the different artists. J.G. Jones, I believe, drew Batman and Darkseid confrontation, and I know Doug Mahnke drew Superman holding Batman at the end of FC #6.

[Mat001]

Most likely, but you never know about that. It could've been intentional with the cowl.

[Captain Jim]

Well, this much we know for certain. That isn't Bruce's skeleton; Didio said so some time ago.

[Steven Caldwell]

it's bob kane.

shhhhhh

[Excelsior Prime]

From what I gather, and in spite of Didio's misdirection, that is Bruce's skeleton.

We know the Omega Sanction can leave people in a state of "temporal flux" to use a ST:TNG term.

I think the Caveman Bruce is more symbolic than anything else. His soul/essence is traveling through time. His body was destroyed by the beams in FC 6.

This gives more weight to "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?" Bruce is on his way back to his own body and his own life.

How will he get his body back? Blackest Night.

And yes, I know this is what happened to Steve Rogers.

[Captain Jim]

From what I gather, and in spite of Didio's misdirection, that is Bruce's skeleton.

That would require more than misdirection, it would make it an outright lie. And I kind of doubt he'd do that.

[shaxper]

Personally, I'd love for them to do some storyline with Bruce in prehistoric times that deals with time travel and somehow results in Bruce dying and ending up as the corpse at the end of FC. Maybe it's one last rogue Monitor trying to fix all the loose endings.

I know Dan said it wasn't really Bruce, but as long as Bruce is still alive somewhere, fans are never going to be content with Dick as Batman in the long run.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Personally, I'd love for them to do some storyline with Bruce in prehistoric times that deals with time travel and somehow results in Bruce dying and ending up as the corpse at the end of FC. Maybe it's one last rogue Monitor trying to fix all the loose endings.

I know Dan said it wasn't really Bruce, but as long as Bruce is still alive somewhere, fans are never going to be content with Dick as Batman in the long run.

It works for me. Frankly, if Dick is un-Batmaned again, I'll be cheesed.

[IvCNuB4]

The current Earth-2 is not the same "Earth-2" as pre-COIE. But if the current Earth-2 has a dead older Batman I supposed this could work initially .....

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

The current Earth-2 is not the same "Earth-2" as pre-COIE. But if the current Earth-2 has a dead older Batman I supposed this could work initially .....

Well, yeah. To clarify, I'd love it if the body were the pre-COIE Earth-2 Batman, if only to give Black Lantern Superman a buddy.

And come on, you know there will be some mass resurrection at the end of this story. I'd love it if Black Lantern Batman returns to life, looks around at all the heroes introduced since 1979, and says "Who ARE you people? And Helena, WHAT are you wearing?"

[CountAchilles]

Well, yeah. To clarify, I'd love it if the body were the pre-COIE Earth-2 Batman, if only to give Black Lantern Superman a buddy.

And come on, you know there will be some mass resurrection at the end of this story. I'd love it if Black Lantern Batman returns to life, looks around at all the heroes introduced since 1979, and says "Who ARE you people? And Helena, WHAT are you wearing?"


Haha.. Nice.

Anyways,I don't think Didio's the kind of person to lie about such things. And maybe,we're looking too much into the "Superman holding Batman's skeleton" picture. As said,it was a change of artists and a few things could've been conveniently overlooked. And,I for one would love to see a parallel story regarding prehistoric Bruce and his "adventures".

[Lemurion]

I've read that Batman's cowl supposedly looked different between when Darkseid zapped him and when Superman found him. I need to dig out my copy of FC #6. Can anybody confirm? If so, does it look like any other particular dead Batman?

Again, this is not a theory. If it were a theory, I'd have clues to back it up. This is a hypothesis.

Yes there is a difference between the cowl Bruce was wearing when he shot Darkseid and the cowl on the skeleton Clark carried out. I also heard on another board that Doug Mahnke said it was deliberate and if I remember correctly a "clue."

[celticguy]

Or, for that matter, the other Batman that was in Countdown - the one who gave Jason the Red Robin costume. or one of a number of bats that were shown in the mini where they gathered 3 version of a bunch of heros and had then fight it out.

Also Power Girl just had a run in with a version of E2 so who knows what is out there that Darkseid could have plucked in to be found as a corpse.

[TheSymptom]

That would require more than misdirection, it would make it an outright lie. And I kind of doubt he'd do that.

Practically from the beginning of R.I.P., the majority opinion was convinced that the new Batman and Robin would be Dick and Damian. Even just weeks shy of the reveal, DiDio said in an interview (I'd have to go digging) that he found it so funny that the majority of the buzz on the internet had decided who the new team was, and that he was so amused that they were all so wrong. The reveal comes, and they're all so RIGHT.

The man isn't above lying, even if it's just to make you doubt your idea of the story for 3 seconds.

[Infinity Man]

I take this to mean that we do not know how or why Batman was sent back in time, nor who it is in Batman's grave? I thought I was missing something huge for a while.

[shaxper]

I take this to mean that we do not know how or why Batman was sent back in time, nor who it is in Batman's grave? I thought I was missing something huge for a while.

I assumed the time travel thing was a byproduct of firing the "God bullet" at Darkseid. After all, Darkseid fired the same bullet backward through time to kill Orion at the beginning of FC.

My memory is fuzzy, but if this occurred around the same time that Supes wished everything back into being, it stands to reason that the original Batman was fried or sent back in time with the second wished into existence a moment later and receiving the other fate.

[Infinity Man]

I assumed the time travel thing was a byproduct of firing the "God bullet" at Darkseid. After all, Darkseid fired the same bullet backward through time to kill Orion at the beginning of FC.

My memory is fuzzy, but if this occurred around the same time that Supes wished everything back into being, it stands to reason that the original Batman was fried or sent back in time with the second wished into existence a moment later and receiving the other fate.

That is true I forgot about the time traveling effect of the bullet.

[Captain Jim]

Practically from the beginning of R.I.P., the majority opinion was convinced that the new Batman and Robin would be Dick and Damian. Even just weeks shy of the reveal, DiDio said in an interview (I'd have to go digging) that he found it so funny that the majority of the buzz on the internet had decided who the new team was, and that he was so amused that they were all so wrong. The reveal comes, and they're all so RIGHT.

The man isn't above lying, even if it's just to make you doubt your idea of the story for 3 seconds.

I think you've got your facts mixed up. That was something that was said at a convention in Europe and it wasn't that no one on the internet had guessed, but that the people at the convention hadn't seemed to have guessed.

[Tequilamokinbrd]

Mark my words, the skeleton is not Bruce's...


It's Jean Paul Valley's.



Ever since the scene where Hal showed Barry everyone that died and Azrael made the cut as someone Hal thought he should show Barry, I couldn't help but think it was a clue.


Why in the heck would Hal show him Azrael of all people? He debuted after Barry was dead for some good time, and died well before Barry came back. I can't think of a reason why Hal would think, "Oh, then there was the guy that replaced Batman for a bit that I never in my life met. Barry needs to know of his passing".

I mean, why not show Orpheus? Why not show him Power Boy? Of all the heroes that debuted & died while Barry was away, why Azrael?


Maybe because his whole deal was that he was brainwashed into thinking he was the angel of death, and death is what this whole thing is about.

[CountAchilles]

Mark my words, the skeleton is not Bruce's...


It's Jean Paul Valley's.



Ever since the scene where Hal showed Barry everyone that died and Azrael made the cut as someone Hal thought he should show Barry, I couldn't help but think it was a clue.


Why in the heck would Hal show him Azrael of all people? He debuted after Barry was dead for some good time, and died well before Barry came back. I can't think of a reason why Hal would think, "Oh, then there was the guy that replaced Batman for a bit that I never in my life met. Barry needs to know of his passing".

I mean, why not show Orpheus? Why not show him Power Boy? Of all the heroes that debuted & died while Barry was away, why Azrael?


Maybe because his whole deal was that he was brainwashed into thinking he was the angel of death, and death is what this whole thing is about.

Not really.

In the Agent Of The Bat arc,Azrael is seemingly killed in the series' final issue, shot with two specially-coated bullets while battling archenemies Scratch and Carlton Lehah. However, his body is never recovered.

Hard to find a skeleton,if you didn't even recover the body isn't it?