Did Tim outgrow his Robin identity too fast?

[The Shadow]

I was at my LCS and I got my copy of Red Robin #3 (haven't read it yet) and I was wondering if anyone thought Tim outgrew his Robin identity too fast?

Dick Grayson was Robin from 1940 until he became Nightwing in 1984. That's 44 YEARS as Robin. He was allowed to grow up, join and lead the Titans and even go to college. but all that took place over four plus decades.

Tim, on the other hand, is introduced in 1989 and becomes Robin (officially) in 1990. And in 2009, just 19 years later (and less than half the time Dick was Robin), he's done and is now Red Robin.

I know there were differences in the times each were Robin and Tim had his own series as Robin... but I still think there was maaaaaaaaaany more stories to be told.

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Why?

[Jorriss]

I think it was the right time. He was simply too good to be Robin the sidekick any further. Dick and Bruce are both still considerably better crime fighters but Tim is better, perhaps by a lot, than when Dick started as Nightwing.

[Personamanx]

It's not that Tim Outgrew being Robin. It's that he was replaced, and pushed out of the Robin Identity. He coud have gone on a few more years, but he might as well have done it now.

[BloodOps]

It was about that time, he was too good to be Robin anymore and needed to go venture out by himself and make a name for himself other than "Batman's sidekick."

[Syrant]

Is he really done being Robin, though? Maybe I'm just in denial, but I always thought he would be normal Robin again eventually.

[BloodOps]

Anyone else notice that during Final Crisis Tim was Red Robin during that??

[px2418]

his time as robin may have been shorter but he diffidently grew a lot, and has matured to a point where he can function as a hero on his own, the fact that he did this faster than dick just further proves the point that he better than being robin, i just really don't like the name red robin, it worked in kingdom come for a grown up dick but Tim should have picked a better identity. i do understand how hard it is to start a new character even when it is just a new name for an old character, maybe he should of become nightwing

[The Shadow]

Is he really done being Robin, though? Maybe I'm just in denial, but I always thought he would be normal Robin again eventually.
Hmmmm... interesting.... perhaps he's not... but going back would seem like a regression. Unless he does sort of a reclaiming of his identity.

[Jorriss]

Hmmmm... interesting.... perhaps he's not... but going back would seem like a regression. Unless he does sort of a reclaiming of his identity.
I'm mixed on regression. Is Robin simply a training position or did Tim make it into his own? I'm leaning towards training. I think he'll have to find his own identity now.

[The Lucky One]

I was actually thinking about that earlier tonight, about how Dick was Robin for so much longer. I eventually decided there are two main reasons for that (and maybe more, but these are what I came up with):

1) For a lot of Dick's run as Robin, characterization was at a minimum. During the Golden Age and some of the Silver Age, you didn't really get inside the characters' heads much; psychoanalysis was waaaay too complex for funny books. During the '40s and '50s Dick didn't really have much personality, or Bruce either for that matter. Just as an estimate, I'd say it wasn't until the mid '60s at least that readers started finding out how Dick felt about anything of consequence. Taken from that standpoint, Tim has had almost as much character development in 19 years as Dick did in the 40+ years before he took on the Nightwing identity.

2) Nowadays comics are written with an eye toward referencing past continuity. Back in the '40s and '50s, kids got their comics from the newsstand and there was no such thing as a "comic shop." Ergo, no back issues, and ergo ergo, no referencing past events. You could touch on Dick's basic origin, maybe, but that's about it; it's how it had to be, since in theory every six years the readership would have completely turned over. These days comics frequently reference things that happened before and most fans are adults who have been reading for years and years, so Tim's adventures don't occur in a vacuum the way many of Dick's did.

That's just my opinion, of course, but I think those two things go a long way toward explaining it. Not that I was clamoring to see Tim move on from the role, and I expect he probably will retake it someday, but time will tell.

-D

[nepenthes]

1) For a lot of Dick's run as Robin, characterization was at a minimum. During the Golden Age and some of the Silver Age, you didn't really get inside the characters' heads much; psychoanalysis was waaaay too complex for funny books. During the '40s and '50s Dick didn't really have much personality, or Bruce either for that matter. Just as an estimate, I'd say it wasn't until the mid '60s at least that readers started finding out how Dick felt about anything of consequence. Taken from that standpoint, Tim has had almost as much character development in 19 years as Dick did in the 40+ years before he took on the Nightwing identity.

2) Nowadays comics are written with an eye toward referencing past continuity. Back in the '40s and '50s, kids got their comics from the newsstand and there was no such thing as a "comic shop." Ergo, no back issues, and ergo ergo, no referencing past events. You could touch on Dick's basic origin, maybe, but that's about it; it's how it had to be, since in theory every six years the readership would have completely turned over. These days comics frequently reference things that happened before and most fans are adults who have been reading for years and years, so Tim's adventures don't occur in a vacuum the way many of Dick's did.

That's just my opinion, of course, but I think those two things go a long way toward explaining it. Not that I was clamoring to see Tim move on from the role, and I expect he probably will retake it someday, but time will tell.

-D

yeah this is what it's all about. Comics are that much more fluid these days a that comparsion between Tim and Richards time in the suit is irrelevant.

Considering the context of Tims transition I think I don't think it was "too fast", it was just unexpected. He didn't gradually move on his own accord like Richard did, but what's happened with Batmans dissapearance, Damian and Red Robin etc makes perfect sense. It feels perfectly natural in that regard.

If Tim had a level head at the moment...I think he's an intelligent and fair enough guy to see that Damian is the one that needs to be beside Dick most right now. He'll admit this later on, right now he's just too torn up to get there.

hey at least he didn't die like Jason Todd, or fake his death like Stephanie

[Retro315]

Anyone else notice that during Final Crisis Tim was Red Robin during that??

He wasn't.

The only time I remember seeing Tim Drake in Final Crisis was during Article X, and then POSSIBLY in the Fortress of Solitude with Supergirl and a bunch of refugees. He was just plain Robin (in the great One Year Later red/yellow/black costume).

And since Battle for the Cowl happened a few months AFTER Final Crisis, and he was still regular Robin in BFTC ... at least until he threw on the 60's/70's blue with yellow oval bat-costume ... those flashbacks of him as Red Robin in Final Crisis are art mistakes. (Or there was an elaborate situation during Final Crisis where Robin put on the Red Robin costume he'd just gotten to try to throw the Justifiers off his trail).

[the Hornet]

well he had a longer run than Jason did.

[Mundungus]

I never thought of the Robin identity as a "training" identity. I always thought it was just the name that Dick took on and became a "legacy" identity after other individuals took it up.

[CountAchilles]

I dont think so.

It was just bound to happen. Drake is much more of a detective than Grayson,plus he's more like Bruce too. I guess he's been waiting to etch an identity for himself for a while.Events of RIP,just became the ideal catalyst for his new 'Red Robin' persona.

Personally,I'd hate to see him go back to being the Boy Wonder.

[nepenthes]

He does need a new identity after Red Robin runs it's course though. That's gonna be a fun job for whoever gets to write it

Definitly stick with the bird related theme. Falcons, eagles are all overused by this point. Red Raven would be cool if it wasn't taken, ravens are supposed to be the most intelligent among birds. Red Wing was suggested, Scarlet Sparrow ha

it could be something honouring Conor or Superboy, like how Nightwing honours Superman somehow. Nightwing, Nighthawk. Connor Hawke

[Boy Constrictor]

I don't think he needs a whole new identity, but mos def a name change.

If they were to actually come up with a decent one I wouldn't mind them changing it or even retconning it arbitrarily in the comic.

[F1uke]

Yes, I think he definitely outgrew his Robin identity too fast.

I wouldn't mind him pairing back up with either Bruce or Dick (the other gets Damian) once Bruce returns.

[The Shadow]

I wouldn't mind him pairing back up with either Bruce or Dick (the other gets Damian) once Bruce returns.
Interesting!

I think I would like to mix it up... Damien is with Dick now and Tim was with Bruce for a while... switch em up for something new.

[The Shadow]

I was actually thinking about that earlier tonight, about how Dick was Robin for so much longer. I eventually decided there are two main reasons for that (and maybe more, but these are what I came up with):

1) For a lot of Dick's run as Robin, characterization was at a minimum. During the Golden Age and some of the Silver Age, you didn't really get inside the characters' heads much; psychoanalysis was waaaay too complex for funny books. During the '40s and '50s Dick didn't really have much personality, or Bruce either for that matter. Just as an estimate, I'd say it wasn't until the mid '60s at least that readers started finding out how Dick felt about anything of consequence. Taken from that standpoint, Tim has had almost as much character development in 19 years as Dick did in the 40+ years before he took on the Nightwing identity.

2) Nowadays comics are written with an eye toward referencing past continuity. Back in the '40s and '50s, kids got their comics from the newsstand and there was no such thing as a "comic shop." Ergo, no back issues, and ergo ergo, no referencing past events. You could touch on Dick's basic origin, maybe, but that's about it; it's how it had to be, since in theory every six years the readership would have completely turned over. These days comics frequently reference things that happened before and most fans are adults who have been reading for years and years, so Tim's adventures don't occur in a vacuum the way many of Dick's did.

That's just my opinion, of course, but I think those two things go a long way toward explaining it. Not that I was clamoring to see Tim move on from the role, and I expect he probably will retake it someday, but time will tell.

-D
Great post and some valid points!!

[jbwbubba]

Well, Dick was Robin for a number of years but never really aged and no one cared. Under Tim he has aged and several year spanning epics have occurred like No Man's Land and 52 among others which caused him to age 4-5 years in a 20 year span (bottle it and sell it to hollywood).

He could have continued as Robin for a few more years and part of me hope he returns to the Robin mantle(and damien goes the way of Jason), since I thought he moved beyond simple sidekick. Tim really developed Robin into his own hero, part of that was editorial decisions like focusing on dark brooding Bats more in his books and Robin getting his own series for many years.

[The Shadow]

part of me hope he returns to the Robin mantle(and damien goes the way of Jason)
I also hope Damien goes the way of Jason... but first I'd like Jason to go BACK the way of Jason! LOL :biggrin:

[the-wolf]

Way too fast. How old is Bruce again? 83, 84? Something like that. Seriously, if you count Steph and Damien that's 5 Robins. I don't care how you compress the time lines or group the ages, it's just ridiculous. Realistically, by the time Tim actually gets to college age Bruce should be retired.

I can't wait to see who's going to be Robin 6. Batman's supporting cast is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too small.

[Doug Seid]

I'm in the minority, but I don't think Red Robin is that bad of a name. Tim loved being Robin, only ever wanted to be Robin, and had the name of Robin taken from him. It makes perfect sense that he would keep calling himself Robin, imo..

I think the costume/name will take getting used to, but I'm already starting to like it.

[FeminineMystique]

I was at my LCS and I got my copy of Red Robin #3 (haven't read it yet) and I was wondering if anyone thought Tim outgrew his Robin identity too fast?

Dick Grayson was Robin from 1940 until he became Nightwing in 1984. That's 44 YEARS as Robin. He was allowed to grow up, join and lead the Titans and even go to college. but all that took place over four plus decades.

Tim, on the other hand, is introduced in 1989 and becomes Robin (officially) in 1990. And in 2009, just 19 years later (and less than half the time Dick was Robin), he's done and is now Red Robin.

I know there were differences in the times each were Robin and Tim had his own series as Robin... but I still think there was maaaaaaaaaany more stories to be told.

Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Why?

Well he wasn't allowed to grow up that much as if he had been he'd be many years older than Bruce is now:tongue:

[Lester C.]

Tim Drake has been Robin for fans 20 years this December. In comic book time while they keep regressing his age, he has been Robin for years due to big events that force time in the Batman universe to force ahead chronologically. I think it's high time he went on his own, but admit am not thrilled with his current direction. I'm not saying he isn't in good hands, he is, I just don't like the direction.

[Protoman]

Anyone else notice that during Final Crisis Tim was Red Robin during that??

what? no he wasnt

[Lester C.]

Way too fast. How old is Bruce again? 83, 84? Something like that. Seriously, if you count Steph and Damien that's 5 Robins. I don't care how you compress the time lines or group the ages, it's just ridiculous. Realistically, by the time Tim actually gets to college age Bruce should be retired.

I can't wait to see who's going to be Robin 6. Batman's supporting cast is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too small.

Logically speaking Bruce should be in his late forties because of Dick pushing thirty as Nighwing was canacly as 26 before One Year later in his Year One Mini as well as other sources that suggest late twenties. And if Dick was the same age as Bruce when Bruce took him in the math not that hard. That said everyone writes Bruce as a man in his early thirties even though that doesn't make sense so who knows how old he really is or will be when they bring him back.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I think Tim did graduate too fast. Robin isn't a kid identity, it's a teen identity. Okay, Dick is the only one who successfully graduated from Robin to another identity (whereas Jason and Steph died, came back, then went on their merry way), but I think after Robin, you should move on to an adult identity.

The thing is, Tim Drake/Wayne is not an adult. They had to give him a growth spurt or bulk up his costume just to look the part. And what about his education? He doesn't even have a high school degree. He doesn't seem mentally prepared for this. His current estrangement from Dick and Damien is proof enough of that, but how many times has Tim debated whether or not he should be on the path to be Batman or a full time costumed hero as an adult? That was never really addressed and resolved. Tim hasn't thought about this rationally, and more than anyone else, Tim would put a lot of thought into this.

Having said that, though, if they did a long arc about Tim graduating from high school and debating on what to do now, heavily considering his costumed career, and ultimately coming to the decision that he wants a new identity to show that he's fully committed to the job, I think it could be a smooth transition. He's about 18 now anyway, and he's been Robin for a number of years, both our time and comic book time.


Definitly stick with the bird related theme. Falcons, eagles are all overused by this point. Red Raven would be cool if it wasn't taken, ravens are supposed to be the most intelligent among birds. Red Wing was suggested, Scarlet Sparrow ha

it could be something honouring Conor or Superboy, like how Nightwing honours Superman somehow. Nightwing, Nighthawk. Connor Hawke

Red Canary :wink:

[Doug Seid]

I think Tim did graduate too fast. Robin isn't a kid identity, it's a teen identity. Okay, Dick is the only one who successfully graduated from Robin to another identity (whereas Jason and Steph died, came back, then went on their merry way), but I think after Robin, you should move on to an adult identity.

The thing is, Tim Drake/Wayne is not an adult. They had to give him a growth spurt or bulk up his costume just to look the part. And what about his education? He doesn't even have a high school degree. He doesn't seem mentally prepared for this. His current estrangement from Dick and Damien is proof enough of that, but how many times has Tim debated whether or not he should be on the path to be Batman or a full time costumed hero as an adult? That was never really addressed and resolved. Tim hasn't thought about this rationally, and more than anyone else, Tim would put a lot of thought into this.

Having said that, though, if they did a long arc about Tim graduating from high school and debating on what to do now, heavily considering his costumed career, and ultimately coming to the decision that he wants a new identity to show that he's fully committed to the job, I think it could be a smooth transition. He's about 18 now anyway, and he's been Robin for a number of years, both our time and comic book time.

I seem to remember Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing before he graduated college, but I could be wrong.

As for Tim, the bit about him not graduating high school is somewhat offsetting.. He was trying to clone his best friend for crying out loud! That is well past high school science. :wink:

As for heavily considering his costumed career.. he has. A lot. He even quit for awhile. The sadistic thing about Tim's story is, he willingly became robin because he knew batman needed a robin and that no one else was going to do it. No tragedy, no real motivation other than he thought it was the right thing to do. And because he became robin, his life as all but been destroyed. His father was killed, his girlfriend was killed, (it got better :P) and every time he tries to hang up the cape, he gets pulled back in. He went through most of his career thinking he was only ever going to be robin. He never wanted to go solo, or to replace batman, although he would if he felt it was needed.. and has, because he feels he has to. Tim's sense of duty is so strong, that he couldn't quit for good if he wanted to.

The other thing is, that Tim's been flying solo for a long time, 183 issues. Especially lately, since the 'one year later' event and beyond, Tim has been much less an apprentice to Bruce and more of a partner. So when Dick said "You aren't my protege.. you're my equal" he really hit on why Tim is ready to move on. Some may see it otherwise, but I see Robin as the role of a sidekick, and Tim hasn't been a sidekick so much as a partner a long time now.

Once the dust clears and the entire Batman: Reborn thing is over, I think we will pretty much have what we had to begin with: Tim Drake/Wayne, the costumed detective, holding down a great solo series because he is allowed to grow and change at a much faster pace than the rest of the Bat-Family who have 40+ years of history to live up to. Different name / costume, whatever. Tim as a character is more than just the role he plays.

.... haha ok my tim drake fanboyism is bleeding through pretty thick here, but oh well.

[90'sCartoonMan]

As for heavily considering his costumed career.. he has. A lot. He even quit for awhile. The sadistic thing about Tim's story is, he willingly became robin because he knew batman needed a robin and that no one else was going to do it. No tragedy, no real motivation other than he thought it was the right thing to do. And because he became robin, his life as all but been destroyed. His father was killed, his girlfriend was killed, (it got better :P) and every time he tries to hang up the cape, he gets pulled back in. He went through most of his career thinking he was only ever going to be robin. He never wanted to go solo, or to replace batman, although he would if he felt it was needed.. and has, because he feels he has to. Tim's sense of duty is so strong, that he couldn't quit for good if he wanted to.

Yeah, that's my point, Tim is always thinking about his career, and very often it leads him to the conclusion of "I'm Robin, I have to be Robin, Batman's partner, and for right now, that's good enough". He'd never quit, but there must've been a lot he thought over before graduating from Robin. I don't think any explanation has been satisfactory. He was unrecognizable at the end of his book, and in Battle for the Cowl, we never really got inside his head when he put on the Batman costume. Compare that to his portrayal in Sins of Youth when he was forced to grow up physically and how much that turned him inside out.


The other thing is, that Tim's been flying solo for a long time, 183 issues. Especially lately, since the 'one year later' event and beyond, Tim has been much less an apprentice to Bruce and more of a partner. So when Dick said "You aren't my protege.. you're my equal" he really hit on why Tim is ready to move on. Some may see it otherwise, but I see Robin as the role of a sidekick, and Tim hasn't been a sidekick so much as a partner a long time now.

Once the dust clears and the entire Batman: Reborn thing is over, I think we will pretty much have what we had to begin with: Tim Drake/Wayne, the costumed detective, holding down a great solo series because he is allowed to grow and change at a much faster pace than the rest of the Bat-Family who have 40+ years of history to live up to. Different name / costume, whatever. Tim as a character is more than just the role he plays.

Tim would probably be the last person to think he's on an equal playing field as Batman and Nightwing, which is why it was good to hear that from Dick, but Tim was being irrational and his reasons for becoming Red Robin made little sense.

I hope you're right about the dust settling, that's where Tim as a character deserves to be. Provided he decides to do something education or careerwise, he's been in major flux since the "Uncle Eddie" deception.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a Tim fanboy myself.

[Name Already Taken]

The new costume and name change are only temporary to begin with. Although I can see a brief time with Bruce back and Damian as Robin once the Batman Reborn dust settles. Tim will be back as Robin sooner than you think, once the creative arcs play out for his RR title and after Bruce gets reestablished as Batman.

BUUUUTTT, I won't sit here and lie. I think that after 20 years + since Tim's introduction as Robin, they aged him a bit quick to near legal age (18). I liked what Tim has dealt with as a teenager along with him in Young Justice as a Teen Titan. Even if Bruce returns a bit rejuvenated from his Omega Sanction ordeal through whatever plotline, it won't change the fact Tim is an adult by that timeframe. He is old enough to strike it out on his own, but still fleshing out his identity under a mask. And what you're left with is a great legacy character who has no place to go id wise like Dick Grayson as Nightwing. Tim may be great on his own, but how he acts and who he is will always be defined will be his connection to Batman. It sucks, but that will always hold true.

[Doug Seid]

Yeah, that's my point, Tim is always thinking about his career, and very often it leads him to the conclusion of "I'm Robin, I have to be Robin, Batman's partner, and for right now, that's good enough". He'd never quit, but there must've been a lot he thought over before graduating from Robin. I don't think any explanation has been satisfactory. He was unrecognizable at the end of his book, and in Battle for the Cowl, we never really got inside his head when he put on the Batman costume. Compare that to his portrayal in Sins of Youth when he was forced to grow up physically and how much that turned him inside out.

Yep, Sins of Youth and Titans Tomorrow both had him come to the same conclusion.. "I don't want to become Bruce Wayne." But it's happening regardless, that's the irony of it. Titans tomorrow had another line I loved.. the future Tim Drake, as a batman who is willing to 'Cross the line', says to Tim "You know that I am inevitable" and Tim replies "I know."

Yeah, I would agree that Tim's characterization in Battle for the Cowl was lacking. But I didn't find it surprising at all that Tim put the costume on so quickly. He probably had the best understanding of just how volatile the city was at that moment as a result of running those chaos programs over and over, and knew just how much batman influenced things. I think he also has a near compulsion to do what he knows is the right thing, trying to ignore his emotions. The thing is, he can't always keep control like Bruce does, and the stress finally makes him snap by the time Red Robin #1 rolls around.


Tim would probably be the last person to think he's on an equal playing field as Batman and Nightwing, which is why it was good to hear that from Dick, but Tim was being irrational and his reasons for becoming Red Robin made little sense.


He was being irrational, I think that was the point. He doesn't really deal with death all that great anymore. Back when his father was killed, he took it hard but accepted it. By the time Superboy died, he was refusing to accept that he couldn't bring him back by cloning him, and now, with Bruce, He is flat out refusing to believe that he is dead. And then there is all that craziness in red robin #3, so maybe he isn't just in denial.


I agree that there was pretty much no reason for him to become red robin. Go Go Editorial! But Chris Yost isn't doing to bad a job of picking up the pieces. I think the Idea that Tim knows he's going to be a dick so he put's on Jason's costume is pretty funny though. 'Jason is going to be blamed for whatever I do, so F*** it.'

tl;dr: In this post: shameless rationalization.

[Captain Jim]

The new costume and name change are only temporary to begin with. Although I can see a brief time with Bruce back and Damian as Robin once the Batman Reborn dust settles. Tim will be back as Robin sooner than you think, once the creative arcs play out for his RR title and after Bruce gets reestablished as Batman.

You're saying that like it's an established fact, but you're really just guessing. I tend to think otherwise.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

You're saying that like it's an established fact, but you're really just guessing. I tend to think otherwise.

I completely agree with you on this one Jim. There has been very little if anything to indicate a complete regression upon Bruce's eventual return to the mantle of the Bat.

[Jorriss]

I completely agree with you on this one Jim. There has been very little if anything to indicate a complete regression upon Bruce's eventual return to the mantle of the Bat.
Yeah, I suspect when Bruce returns Damian stays Robin, Dick goes to Nightwing but with a larger presence in the DCU and Tim Drake takes on a Nightwing esque role.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Yep, Sins of Youth and Titans Tomorrow both had him come to the same conclusion.. "I don't want to become Bruce Wayne." But it's happening regardless, that's the irony of it. Titans tomorrow had another line I loved.. the future Tim Drake, as a batman who is willing to 'Cross the line', says to Tim "You know that I am inevitable" and Tim replies "I know."

Oh yeah, the first time they brought out the Future Titans, it worked for Tim acknowledging his destiny. Hopefully he doesn't become that kind of Batman, though!

He was being irrational, I think that was the point. He doesn't really deal with death all that great anymore. Back when his father was killed, he took it hard but accepted it. By the time Superboy died, he was refusing to accept that he couldn't bring him back by cloning him, and now, with Bruce, He is flat out refusing to believe that he is dead. And then there is all that craziness in red robin #3, so maybe he isn't just in denial.


I agree that there was pretty much no reason for him to become red robin. Go Go Editorial! But Chris Yost isn't doing to bad a job of picking up the pieces. I think the Idea that Tim knows he's going to be a dick so he put's on Jason's costume is pretty funny though. 'Jason is going to be blamed for whatever I do, so F*** it.'

All that stress and loss is bound to get to anyone, but I don't want to read about a broken hero who distances himself from his family and only makes things worse for himself. It's a shame to see this is his new status quo. We're going to need another Timmy!

[Hush Little Batman]

I know DC likes to envision Bruce as being a man in his early to mid-thirties, so that would make Dick in his mid-twenties or so, right? Last I checked in on Tim Drake (and this was YEARS ago), he was supposed to be in his teens and in high school (Chuck Dixon years).

From some of the pictures I see online of Red Robin (god, what a stupid name that is. It was stupid in Kingdom Come and remains so today imho), he's being drawn as if he's a grown man.

So, my question is simple.*

How old is Tim supposed to be now that he's left the nest?

*The answer however, may be more complicated. :tongue:

[CountAchilles]

I know DC likes to envision Bruce as being a man in his early to mid-thirties, so that would make Dick in his mid-twenties or so, right? Last I checked in on Tim Drake (and this was YEARS ago), he was supposed to be in his teens and in high school (Chuck Dixon years).

From some of the pictures I see online of Red Robin (god, what a stupid name that is. It was stupid in Kingdom Come and remains so today imho), he's being drawn as if he's a grown man.

So, my question is simple.*

How old is Tim supposed to be now that he's left the nest?

*The answer however, may be more complicated. :tongue:



Late teens would be my guess. A few years off Dick,at most.

[CountAchilles]

You're saying that like it's an established fact, but you're really just guessing. I tend to think otherwise.

You're not alone. I just can't see the whole "things falling into their old slots" happening. Tim like Dick should carve a completely new identity for himself.

[Ben Reilly#6]

I know DC likes to envision Bruce as being a man in his early to mid-thirties, so that would make Dick in his mid-twenties or so, right? Last I checked in on Tim Drake (and this was YEARS ago), he was supposed to be in his teens and in high school (Chuck Dixon years).

From some of the pictures I see online of Red Robin (god, what a stupid name that is. It was stupid in Kingdom Come and remains so today imho), he's being drawn as if he's a grown man.

So, my question is simple.*

How old is Tim supposed to be now that he's left the nest?

*The answer however, may be more complicated. :tongue:

As it's been mentioned before, pretty close to eighteen. I mean, if you go by the supposed 15-year sliding timescale (as well as Morrison's "revisions"), then he's only been Robin for the last five years (starting at age thirteen). A bit troublesome, but it makes sense.

[Jorriss]

As it's been mentioned before, pretty close to eighteen. I mean, if you go by the supposed 15-year sliding timescale (as well as Morrison's "revisions"), then he's only been Robin for the last five years (starting at age thirteen). A bit troublesome, but it makes sense.
Yup, I always took him to be late 17, maybe early 18. Although, is he a junior or senior in HS?

[SpideyAvenger]

While I wouldn't have a problem with Tim staying Red Robin when Bruce comes back but I get the feeling that he'll be Robin again at some point.

[celticguy]

I would have expected someone to say this before now but I think Tim did establish robin as a seperate idenity from Batman.

Granted Batman and Robin will always go together but with his own book and time in Young Justice and TT he was matured in a way Dick was only allowed to do as nightwing.

He stepped up to partner more than just sidekick.

I could see him back as Robin, but I do not consider it a certain fate. Most likely it will have more to do with how Damien is accepted and if the RR tittle takes off long term.

An adult Robin has been done before.

[Jorriss]

I would have expected someone to say this before now but I think Tim did establish robin as a seperate idenity from Batman.

So there is definitely something there, in that Robin isn't simply just a title you get until you graduate. In the same way Dick did, it's a progression in which the sidekick role is slowly just pushed out.

But I'd think when it comes down it, as long as one is Robin they are fundamentally still in the shadow of Batman, are expected to answer to Batman and can't really be called an 'individual' hero.

No doubt though, he's pretty close to his own hero.

[The Lucky One]

Yup, I always took him to be late 17, maybe early 18. Although, is he a junior or senior in HS?

If I'm not mistaken, Tim was about 13 when he first started training to be Robin, and 14 (or near the end of his thirteenth year) when he took on the mantle. He was stated to be 15 during Young Justice (Bart was 14, Kon was 16); however, that was before No Man's Land, which IIRC was supposed to take place over more than a year of DCU time, so he would have been 16 when it was over and as a Teen Titan. If we then include One Year Later, then even with extreme time compression Tim would absolutely have to be a minimum of 17 now, if not 18.

I do remember at one point in his solo title he was definitively stated as being a junior, but with No Man's Land, in theory he'd be at least a year behind his normal grade; so if he's 17, or even early 18, he might still only be a junior.

-D

[Mister Blisterfists]

Tim did not outgrow being Robin, because when Bruce gets back, and puts everything right, Tim will be Robin again.

[celticguy]

So there is definitely something there, in that Robin isn't simply just a title you get until you graduate. In the same way Dick did, it's a progression in which the sidekick role is slowly just pushed out.

But I'd think when it comes down it, as long as one is Robin they are fundamentally still in the shadow of Batman, are expected to answer to Batman and can't really be called an 'individual' hero.

No doubt though, he's pretty close to his own hero.


yeah the Batman shadow is huge but becoming nightwing never really got Dick out from under it and I don't think being Red Robin or whoever would do it for Tim. Batman and Robin will always roll of the tongue but TIm's Robin has carved out his own identity as much as he can.

Second generation heros will alwys seem derivative of their sires. Tempest will always be aqualad to some, Arsenal or Red Arrow will always be Speedy to some.

The Flash and GL Identites have a tradition of being shared so the shadow is not as big, or it is not the same I should say.

[Jorriss]

yeah the Batman shadow is huge but becoming nightwing never really got Dick out from under it and I don't think being Red Robin or whoever would do it for Tim. Batman and Robin will always roll of the tongue but TIm's Robin has carved out his own identity as much as he can.
Actually, hopefully with Bruce being 'dead,' it finally allows everyone to truly step out of his shadow.


Second generation heros will alwys seem derivative of their sires. Tempest will always be aqualad to some, Arsenal or Red Arrow will always be Speedy to some.
Yeah, I wish people did hold on so tightly to viewing side kicks as sidekicks forever.