A Neophyte Batman Fan Seeking His Best Solo Adventures!

[arp2008]

Hi, everyone. This thread is in the same vain as cjam93's EXCEPT, as the thead title already makes clear, I'm here in search of his best SOLO adventures sans the boy wonder Robin. I am not a fan of the teen sidekick in any of his interations nor have I ever been. If there's one flaw I have with the entire Batman mythos, its him. So not having a single DC title in my collection and finding Marvel's Dark Reign storyline becoming tedious and annoyingly ubiquitous, I turn to you, the Batman aficionados of the CBR message boards, for your wisdom. I wish your erudite and extensive knowledge of Batman publication history will lead me to some well acclaimed stories I can collect with pride and savor with gusto. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Now, there a few things to keep in mind. All of the stories recommended should be in continuity, fairly recent (if its printed on news print, don't bother), DEVOID OF ROBIN , present him in a serious, realistic world similar to that of The Dark Knight yet still be firmly rooted in the DCU, free of his more guady DCU compatriots save for Superman, feature his greatest rogues (Joker, Mr. Freeze, Catwoman, Bane, etc), have him have to use his sometimes underutilize detective skills, and be depicted by some deadal artists with a rough, heavily shadowed noir style like that of Mr. Alex Maleev and Mr. Michael Lark. Jim Lee's style is a favorite of mine, too. You know what? What I'm looking for is pretty much The Dark Knight film set in the DCU.

Wow. All right, guys. I know I seem very picky here, but I'm the kind of fan who knows what he wants. Are you up to the challenge? If so, strike back below and be the first to help introduce me to the DCU's Dark Knight at his finest! Thanks in advance to all who contribute! :smile:

Apropos, the Batman I'd prefer is Bruce Wayne, not Dick. The latter hasn't grown on me yet.

Postscript, Mods please don't deleted or move this threas! I tired to distiguish this opeing post ennough so it won't be merged with cjam93's. If you do take the aforementioned actions, however, I understand, but if you don't HAVE TO, please don't! :eek:

[Doug Seid]

Well, Batman: Year One would be an obvious choice, for that matter anything Batman by Frank Miller as he seems to share your hatred for the boy wonder.

So, Batman: Year One, The Dark Knight Returns and The Dark Night Strikes Again, although the latter two aren't in continuity.

Edit: Actually, I just remembered that The Dark Knight Returns has a robin, Although I would still recommend it.

[Kirayoshi]

The obvious place to start would be Batman: Year One, by Frank Miller and David Mazzuchelli. His earliest adventures, dealing with both gangs and a corrupt police system. If you liked Batman Begins, this would be up your alley.

Alan Moore's Killing Joke gives you a Joker that you can easily recognize from Dark Knight. His goal is to drive Gordon and Batman, the two sanest people he knows, completely mad. When he tells Batman, "All it takes is one bad day," you can see the way he manipulated Harvey Dent in the movie.

Edit: it may look cartoony, but I'd also recommend Paul Dini and Bruce Timm's Mad Love, the origin of Harley Quinn. Set in the DCAU, but a lot darker than the cartoon could usually get away with(when they adapted the comic into an episode of the cartoon, they did tone it down just a little, IIRC).

[arp2008]

Edit: Actually, I just remembered that The Dark Knight Returns has a robin, Although I would still recommend it.That little orange haired chick right? Yea, no thanks.

[arp2008]

The obvious place to start would be Batman: Year One, by Frank Miller and David Mazzuchelli. His earliest adventures, dealing with both gangs and a corrupt police system. If you liked Batman Begins, this would be up your alley.I'm trying to avoid anything pertaining to his origin. I've lived through it so many times between the stellar animated series of the early 90's and the movies its eye soar. Thanks, though. I will give Year One an honest try if I can track it down.

Alan Moore's Killing Joke gives you a Joker that you can easily recognize from Dark Knight. His goal is to drive Gordon and Batman, the two sanest people he knows, completely mad. When he tells Batman, "All it takes is one bad day," you can see the way he manipulated Harvey Dent in the movie. I know of this story already and how it ends. It was one of those tales that was so good it was spoiled before I even realized what it was. Similar to Darth Vaders being Lukes father.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Arp seriously you dont like comics do you. Youre one of the most picky people ive ever seen, i guess that means you do like comics cause you love to bitch about them :tongue: dont worry about batman year one because it was printed on ole yucky newsprint. You might enjoy a death in the family, you hate robin and all the different versions so you may enjoy this tale although this story was also origionally printed in news print as well.

[arp2008]

Arp seriously you dont like comics do you. Youre one of the most picky people ive ever seen, i guess that means you do like comics cause you love to bitch about them :tongue: dont worry about batman year one because it was printed on ole yucky newsprint. You might enjoy a death in the family, you hate robin and all the different versions so you may enjoy this tale although this story was also origionally printed in news print as well.
Didn't know you come around these parts too often. How about some good, recent stories you enjoyed that had Robin no where in sight or in dialogue and was not on news print, huh?

[jgiannantoni05]

will lead me to some well acclaimed stories
With your rigid criteria, you won't even scratch the surface of well acclaimed Batman comic stories. This I guarantee.

There aren't many (good) stories that fit your ridicously rigid criteria; Robin III has been with Batman since 1989.


There is like Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth, Killing Joke (spoiled for you in some way I don't understand as it's not really a mystery), The Man Who Laughs, Batman and the Monster Men..all that I can think of. Long Halloween..brilliant, Nolan used it a ton...but "newsprint" I guess.

You might get Gotham Central: Unresolved Targets (but Batman is not in it much, it's the GCPD vs The Joker).


What I'm looking for is pretty much The Dark Knight film set in the DCU.
Consider abandoning the Batman comics, and just waiting for Nolan's next Batman film. Seriously.

Robin. I am not a fan of the teen sidekick in any of his interations nor have I ever been. If there's one flaw I have with the entire Batman mythos, its him.
Well, the Batman comic mythos became flawed a mere ten issues after Batman first appeared in 1939 then, according to your logic. Batman's creators freely wanted Robin (contrary to popular belief, it wasn't just a pander to children, they wanted Batman to have a Watson).
________
Yamaha Tt600 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Yamaha_TT600)

[Doug Seid]

It's not staring batman, but the current detective comics run staring batwoman is really good. And it has no robin! And its on shiny paper!

It may be worth your time to look at some other costumed adventurer series that are out there. Manhunter, Question, Vigilante.

The reason I say this is because robin is part of the batman story, no avoiding it. If you're going to try to ignore robin, you're going to end up ignoring just about every great batman story out there.

The Robin in the comics isn't the one from the cheesy 50's tv show, or the one from the horrible 90's movies. He's actually a really well developed, interesting character. I know a lot of of people can't stand him, and I don't expect to change your mind, but I figured I might as well say what most fans of the batman series have already realised.

[yadadaimhollaing]

Didn't know you come around these parts too often. How about some good, recent stories you enjoyed that had Robin no where in sight or in dialogue and was not on news print, huh?

Ive just recently started coming around. Im becoming a new batfan. I come here for the knowledge these experienced bat readers can drop on me.

Honestly i dont know what stories wouldnt feature robin. I havent read much batman yet. Im currently amassing a good size run before i actually start reading the title. Id maybe suggest the new streets of gotham title but i do think i remember seeing robin when i flipped through it.

[arp2008]

Ive just recently started coming around. Im becoming a new batfan. I come here for the knowledge these experienced bat readers can drop on me. Same here. With such an incredibly extensive publication history finding an accessible point for any of the Batman titles is a bit daunting hence the creation of this thread. I try coming here once in a while to if see I'll pick up on anything good.

Im currently amassing a good size run before i actually start reading the title. What do you mean by this exactly?

Id maybe suggest the new streets of gotham title but i do think i remember seeing robin when i flipped through it.That title doesn't seem too bad at all but I'm more interested in stores featuring Bruse rather than time.

[arp2008]

It's not staring batman, but the current detective comics run staring batwoman is really good. And it has no robin! And its on shiny paper!To tell you truth, its taking every fiber of my being to not plop down my $4 and give that title a try given how extraodinary the artistry is by Mr. William III. I want to wait it out a little first, though, and see where the story goes. I'd hate buying a title for the aritsrty alone for when that artist does leave the title it would lose any and all appeal.

It may be worth your time to look at some other costumed adventurer series that are out there. Manhunter, Question, Vigilante.I know of these character and all are noe I'd add to my comic library. Ever.

The reason I say this is because robin is part of the batman story, no avoiding it. If you're going to try to ignore robin, you're going to end up ignoring just about every great batman story out there.I was afraid of this, but I know there some good stand alone Batman stories out there besides the Year One already recommended.

The Robin in the comics isn't the one from the cheesy 50's tv show, or the one from the horrible 90's movies. He's actually a really well developed, interesting character. I know a lot of of people can't stand him, and I don't expect to change your mind, but I figured I might as well say what most fans of the batman series have already realised.I know this much, but the simple idea of Batman allowing an adolesence to engage in vigilatism alongside him is too ridiculous to tolerate. I find that Batman works best alone anyway.

[nepenthes]

What I'm looking for is pretty much The Dark Knight film set in the DCU.

It's called Gotham Central. Rucka, Brubaker and Lark. There are several volumes, start with Unresolved Targets featuring The Joker

Otherwise check out Long Halloween, The Joker GN, Year One, Gothic, Arkham Asylum, Killing Joke and then you might be ready to begin getting over your obstacles, because what most people have already told you is correct


the simple idea of Batman allowing an adolesence to engage in vigilatism alongside him is too ridiculous to tolerate. I find that Batman works best alone anyway.

How do you know this though? because it's clear you havn't read many of the comics in the first place. This is just an idea you have from watching the movies and cartoon. This is like saying Marvels Fantastic Four obviously suck because I saw that crappy movie, the X-Men should only ever wear leather, and Venom is a little douche Topher Grace he was lame.

With your limits your cutting out basically every other good Batman story before you've even given them a chance ------------> Dark Knight Returns for example. You must have heard of that, it's pretty much THE book for alot of reasonable people. Other good introductions to the larger batworld will be Hush, Contagion, Batman & Son and All Star B&R (the best Robin intro ever).

Pretty much everyone starts out hating on Robin. It's nothing special. Though the seven books I listed first are all outstanding-to-decent reads themselves and should keep you busy a for a while

[discodicky]

I know this much, but the simple idea of Batman allowing an adolesence to engage in vigilatism alongside him is too ridiculous to tolerate. I find that Batman works best alone anyway.
If you find that Batman works best alone then you must know a plethora of stories that ignore Robin. The Dark Knight was an interpretation of Batman that missed some of the fundamental parts of the character - specifically Robin. Having Batman without Robin is the equivalent of Spider-man without being able to fire webs and climb walls. Ultimately if you can tolerate Robin cropping up in the occasional issue, I suggest you pick up Paul Dini's Detective run, although the best issue of that run was a Robin and Joker story.

The other thing I have a problem with is you hating newsprint. The paper stock is often appropriate to the story. In other words, having a dark, twisted story like the Long Halloween on über-shiny paper wouldn't work. What's with the obsession with shiny paper? Give me traditional stock any day.:biggrin:

[mofo]

Joker by Azzarello and Bermejo
It's only got Batman in one scene since the story mostly follows the Joker. But there is no robin. And the art is beautiful.
The story is pretty good... new Batman readers would love the portrayal of the Joker (well...maybe....it's sorta similar to Heath Ledger but....not quite) but its nothing new to veteran batman readers.

As mentioned by previous posters, Gotham Central is daaaaammmn good but is more focused on the GCPD and not Batman and Robin

The current Detective comics is SUPERB (in terms of art AND writing). Only 2 issues have come out so its a good time to jump in

The Man Who Laughs is about Jokers first crime after his deformation. No robin and awesome art and writing.

The Batman: Black & White volumes consist of short stories about the Bat. I believe they are almost solely focused on Batman. Volume 1 is the best though

And finally (I've saved the very best for last), Batman: Year 100 is brilliant. It does have a Robin in it but not in the way you would think (he's a mechanic IIRC, so your idea of an adolescent helping Batman is not here). Also, it has arguably the most realistic portrayal of Batman ever (and the story is set in the near future too! Quite an accomplishment)

[arp2008]

It's called Gotham Central. Rucka, Brubaker and Lark. There are several volumes, start with Unresolved Targets featuring The JokerIsn't Gotham Central more of a police procedural focusing on the Gotham PD rather than Batman's nightly vigilantism?

Otherwise check out Long Halloween, The Joker GN, Year One, Gothic, Arkham Asylum, Killing Joke and then you might be ready to begin getting over your obstacles, because what most people have already told you is correctThanks for the recommensations. Are all you listed in continuity with the DCU, or stand alone tales?


How do you know this though? because it's clear you havn't read many of the comics in the first place. This is just an idea you have from watching the movies and cartoon. This is like saying Marvels Fantastic Four obviously suck because I saw that crappy movie, the X-Men should only ever wear leather, and Venom is a little douche Topher Grace he was lame.I know Robin from the Emmy award winning Batman: The Animated Series of the early ninties and even then, when he was features in some the series most highly acclaimed stories, I didn't care for him. For what I've see, his comic counterpart is even more colorfully animated that the Batman: TAS series version and that, in and of it self, is a huge turn off.

With your limits your cutting out basically every other good Batman story before you've even given them a chance ------------> Dark Knight Returns for example. You must have heard of that, it's pretty much THE book for alot of reasonable people. Other good introductions to the larger batworld will be Hush, Contagion, Batman & Son and All Star B&R (the best Robin intro ever). is Hush one of the better recent Batman stories?

Pretty much everyone starts out hating on Robin. It's nothing special. Though the seven books I listed first are all outstanding-to-decent reads themselves and should keep you busy a for a whileI'll definitely look into them. Thanks for your time!

[arp2008]

If you find that Batman works best alone then you must know a plethora of stories that ignore Robin. The Dark Knight was an interpretation of Batman that missed some of the fundamental parts of the character - specifically Robin. Having Batman without Robin is the equivalent of Spider-man without being able to fire webs and climb walls. Ultimately if you can tolerate Robin cropping up in the occasional issue, I suggest you pick up Paul Dini's Detective run, although the best issue of that run was a Robin and Joker story.Wow. I'm really surprised there are so many advocates for Robin and this thread isn't barely two pages in. All right. I'll trust you guys since you know more than I do. What issue was Dini's run on detective? Incidentally, is Batman the flagship Batman title? If not, what is the ASM of the Batman comics?

The other thing I have a problem with is you hating newsprint. The paper stock is often appropriate to the story. In other words, having a dark, twisted story like the Long Halloween on über-shiny paper wouldn't work. What's with the obsession with shiny paper? Give me traditional stock any day.:biggrin:Newsprint issue will more than likely be very hard to find, expensive, to and in poor condition.

[arp2008]

Joker by Azzarello and Bermejo
It's only got Batman in one scene since the story mostly follows the Joker. But there is no robin. And the art is beautiful.Good gracious were you right about the art! I just googled and was stunned at what I saw. I heard the art in this comic was good, but this is the only time I've really ever bothered to look it up. IMO, this may very well rival Mr. Williams artistry in Detective Comics. I mean, Wow!

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/Images/JOKER%20%231%20001-034-8.jpg

The story is pretty good... new Batman readers would love the portrayal of the Joker (well...maybe....it's sorta similar to Heath Ledger but....not quite) but its nothing new to veteran batman readers.I'm well versedin everything Joker but I'll give this a look see if only for the artistry.

As mentioned by previous posters, Gotham Central is daaaaammmn good but is more focused on the GCPD and not Batman and RobinYea, thats what I thought.

The current Detective comics is SUPERB (in terms of art AND writing). Only 2 issues have come out so its a good time to jump inI'm giving the story some time to develop before I jump in. I really want to now, though. Those pages are so stunning I fear I if I were to buy an issue I'd tear out the interiors and hang them on my walls.

The Man Who Laughs is about Jokers first crime after his deformation. No robin and awesome art and writing.Look for more Batman oriented comics. But thanks for the suggestion.

The Batman: Black & White volumes consist of short stories about the Bat. I believe they are almost solely focused on Batman. Volume 1 is the best thoughNot in continuity?

And finally (I've saved the very best for last), Batman: Year 100 is brilliant. It does have a Robin in it but not in the way you would think (he's a mechanic IIRC, so your idea of an adolescent helping Batman is not here). Also, it has arguably the most realistic portrayal of Batman ever (and the story is set in the near future too! Quite an accomplishment)Batman: Year 100? Never heard of that one.

[Personamanx]

I wish I could add. But I've always found all of the Robin's to be more interesting than Bruce Wayne.

Probably the Best Batman book right now is "Batman & Robin". Seriously Love or Hate the concept of Robin you owe it to yourself to read this. It's only two issues in so You could easily pick it up.

[arp2008]

I wish I could add. But I've always found all of the Robin's to be more interesting than Bruce Wayne.

Probably the Best Batman book right now is "Batman & Robin". Seriously Love or Hate the concept of Robin you owe it to yourself to read this. It's only two issues in so You could easily pick it up.I'm in awe. Another advocate for Robin. Truth be told, you are slowly but surely beginning to change my mind. I always though Robin is what was most wrong with the Batman's world if anything at all, but the lot of you are more or less say he's as intergral to Batman stories as air is to maintaining life. Its astounding!

[Jared]

I knew the main beats of The Killing Joke long before I read it. It's not the sort of story that's hindered by that.

There's a reason Year One (and DKR) tops virtually every list of Batman trades you'll find on the internet, and why it comes up in every recommendation thread. It's the definitive Batman comic. It's also the foundation Batman's post-crisis continuity.

But, speaking of continuity, "Joker" probably doesn't count. The same goes for "Lovers and Madmen", but both might be right up your alley in terms of the kind of story you want. Both are gritty, Joker-scarred, and Robin-free.

The Man Who Laughs is in continuity, and is a very good Joker story as well, as the tale of their first appearance. The TPB also includes an unrelated modern teamup of Batman and a Green Lantern.

Batman vs. Predator is much better than it has any right to be. I have no idea what the trade is printed on, I seldom pay that any mind. Because it's an intercompany crossover, it's probably not continuity, sadly. But if you like Batman (which you obviously do) and also happen to like Predator (especially the first movie), this really kicks ass.

As for Robin, while I believe that movies are better off without him, in recent years I've come around to accepting, and even embracing his role in the comics. An always-alone Batman just can't work in so many titles over so many years. Dark Victory, the sequel to The Long Halloween, introduces him about halfway through.

[arp2008]

I knew the main beats of The Killing Joke long before I read it. It's not the sort of story that's hindered by that.

There's a reason Year One (and DKR) tops virtually every list of Batman trades you'll find on the internet, and why it comes up in every recommendation thread. It's the definitive Batman comic. It's also the foundation Batman's post-crisis continuity. What are the single issues? Or is Batman: Year One originally a graphic novel?

But, speaking of continuity, "Joker" probably doesn't count. The same goes for "Lovers and Madmen", but both might be right up your alley in terms of the kind of story you want. Both are gritty, Joker-scarred, and Robin-free. Very nice! I like a more Batman in my stories. Both will get a look from me though, especially Joker. That is for sure.

Batman vs. Predator is much better than it has any right to be. I have no idea what the trade is printed on, I seldom pay that any mind. Because it's an intercompany crossover, it's probably not continuity, sadly.Yea, that doesn't too in continuity at all.

[Jared]

What are the single issues? Or is Batman: Year One originally a graphic novel?

It was originallly a four-issue mini series from the late 80s. I don't know if it'd be difficult or costly to track down single issues, but the trade is readily available.

Very nice! I like a more Batman in my stories. Both will get a look from me though, especially Joker. That is for sure.

Yea, that doesn't too in continuity at all.[/QUOTE]

The story is such that if it were referenced in continuity, there wouldn't be anything out of place about it. Much weirder stuff has happened to Batman than an alien hunting him for sport.

[nepenthes]

Isn't Gotham Central more of a police procedural focusing on the Gotham PD rather than Batman's nightly vigilantism?

Batman only shows up occasionally however his presence in the city and among the police is felt the whole time. it's part of the book. and it's still better than alot of general batman trades and the closest thing to TDK the film imo. The Joker story in that trade is one of the best

Are all you listed in continuity with the DCU, or stand alone tales?

Killing Joke and Long Halloween were both originally conceived outside of continuity but their events were adopted in after release. The shooting of Barbara Gordon, Jokers multiple choice origin, the fall of Harvey Dent and the Rise of the Freaks are all major points of continuity. Gothic and Arkham Asylum are in a blurry area.- niether reference outside elements and standalone as stories, it's really up to the reader. I say they are. Year One definitly is. Joker strictly speaking is not but there's nothing in there that says it coulndn't be fitted into the larger picture imo

I know Robin from the Emmy award winning Batman: The Animated Series of the early ninties and even then, when he was features in some the series most highly acclaimed stories, I didn't care for him. For what I've see, his comic counterpart is even more colorfully animated that the Batman: TAS series version and that, in and of it self, is a huge turn off.

this will change the more you read :cool:

is Hush one of the better recent Batman stories?

Yeah I guess. Maybe not so much "better" as it is important and well-received. The first part of this decade was taken up with stuff like Fugitive and War Crimes which personally leave me cold and are easily swept aside in the timeline of continuity. Among this Hush definitly stands out as a major event. It sold like crazy and kind of marked a turning point for the titles, for better or worse. It's also pretty nonsensical and overblown, but ultimately fun is what is matters

[arp2008]

Batman only shows up occasionally however his presence in the city and among the police is felt the whole time. it's part of the book. and it's still better than alot of general batman trades and the closest thing to TDK the film imo. Is or was this an ongoing?

The Joker story in that trade is one of the best I'm about to find out for myself! :biggrin: That art has me salivating!


Killing Joke and Long Halloween were both originally conceived outside of continuity but their events were adopted in after release. The shooting of Barbara Gordon, Jokers multiple choice origin, the fall of Harvey Dent and the Rise of the Freaks are all major points of continuity. Gothic and Arkham Asylum are in a blurry area.- niether reference outside elements and standalone as stories, it's really up to the reader. I say they are. Year One definitly is. Joker strictly speaking is not but there's nothing in there that says it couldn't be fitted into the larger picture imo:cool:

this will change the more you read :cool:Doubtful. I didn't like the Robin from the animated series and that was a more mature and serious take on the character. From what I see of the comics Robin, he is a young, fruitfully dressed, blitheful kid who impossibly trounces criminals twice his size and many times his stength with ease. Not what I like in my cup of hot chocolate.

Yeah I guess. Maybe not so much "better" as it is important and well-received. The first part of this decade was taken up with stuff like Fugitive and War Crimes which personally leave me cold and are easily swept aside in the timeline of continuity. Among this Hush definitly stands out as a major event. It sold like crazy and kind of marked a turning point for the titles, for better or worse. It's also pretty nonsensical and overblown, but ultimately fun is what is mattersI'll see to Hush. However, Loebs absoultely abhorrant Hulk title and panned Ultimatum series makes anything with his name on seem detestable right now.

[discodicky]

I'll see to Hush. However, Loebs absoultely abhorrant Hulk title and panned Ultimatum series makes anything with his name on seem detestable right now.
I could not agree with you more, especially after Ultimates 3. However, in both Long Halloween and Hush he writes quite well. By that I mean that some of his characterizations are a bit odd but it generally works well.

Good luck and good hunting.

[discodicky]

Oh and btw, check out Batman and Robin - the Robin character is of very different stock to other Robins, he's a psychopath!

[Chiroptera]

[QUOTE] Is or was this an ongoing?

I'm about to find out for myself! :biggrin: That art has me salivating!


:cool:

Doubtful. I didn't like the Robin from the animated series and that was a more mature and serious take on the character. From what I see of the comics Robin, he is a young, fruitfully dressed, blitheful kid who impossibly trounces criminals twice his size and many times his stength with ease. Not what I like in my cup of hot chocolate.

I'll see to Hush. However, Loebs absoultely abhorrant Hulk title and panned Ultimatum series makes anything with his name on seem detestable right now.


I can understand where you're coming from in all of this. I've never been a big robin fan myself (though there are some stories with him in it that I adore) and I definitely understand your hesitations on Loeb, but trust us. The Long Halloween and Dark Victory completely worth your time and money.

They're both incredible stories that show that, when the mood strikes just right and the planets align in his favor, Loeb can actually make some incredible, incredible work.

[Jorriss]

Batman and the Mad Monk


...Batman: Shadow of the Bat 1,000,000

[Jim Thompson]

Has someone mentioned Batman: Faces and/or the Batman/Grendel crossovers? Those are excellent.

[Infinity Man]

As someone else who is not a fan of the Robins (they're fine on their own, but I don't like Batman having a sidekick) I can sympathize with the thread starter. Though they have already been recommended, I will also support Batman Year One, and Hush. In fact I believe that Hush was released as a single volume today. The Killing Joke by Alan Moore is pretty cool too. I have not gotten to read it, but I've heard people gush about how good The Long Halloween is.

[Jared]

Has someone mentioned Batman: Faces and/or the Batman/Grendel crossovers? Those are excellent.

I was going to suggest Grendel, but it's another non-canon crossover.

Killing Joke and Long Halloween were both originally conceived outside of continuity but their events were adopted in after release. The shooting of Barbara Gordon, Jokers multiple choice origin, the fall of Harvey Dent and the Rise of the Freaks are all major points of continuity. Gothic and Arkham Asylum are in a blurry area.- niether reference outside elements and standalone as stories, it's really up to the reader. I say they are. Year One definitly is. Joker strictly speaking is not but there's nothing in there that says it coulndn't be fitted into the larger picture imo

I believe Morrisson's take on Arkam Aslyum is that it is continuity, but as a dream that Batman has, leading into the way Grant wrote him in JLA.

Joker would actually take quite a bit of retconning to fit, given the portrayals of Croc, Riddler, and the Joker having scars which he only acquired soon before Bruce's dissapearance. If they do want to put it in continuity someday, I suspect they'll have to place it after Bruce returns.

[nepenthes]

Is or was this an ongoing? .

It was an ongoing that ended around 2005 I think, 40 issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotham_Central

I believe Morrisson's take on Arkam Aslyum is that it is continuity, but as a dream that Batman has, leading into the way Grant wrote him in JLA.

Joker would actually take quite a bit of retconning to fit, given the portrayals of Croc, Riddler, and the Joker having scars which he only acquired soon before Bruce's dissapearance. If they do want to put it in continuity someday, I suspect they'll have to place it after Bruce returns.

Visual appearance doesn't really factor into whether something is canon or not for me. All these characters have had different looks over time.

If I had to place the Joker GN in a timeline it would be in the earlier years when Croc was still a half normal guy, Two-Face had just taken control of the mobs (see TLH), Riddler was experimenting with different looks and Joker was inbetween his prankster/theif phase and mass murdering psycho phase. They wouldn't have released him from prison if he was known as an unstoppable spree killer already. no biggie.

[Jared]

Was Killer Croc ever a black gangsta in normal continuity?

[Jorriss]

Was Killer Croc ever a black gangsta in normal continuity?
no, I can't think of him being that way any place outside of 'Joker.'

[arp2008]

I could not agree with you more, especially after Ultimates 3. However, in both Long Halloween and Hush he writes quite well. By that I mean that some of his characterizations are a bit odd but it generally works well.Those are two of the first stories that registered when I thought of finding my way into some nice Batman comics. In spite of the fact, as I already said, as soon I saw Loebs name in the credits my w9illingness quickly turned to hesitation. I will give them a chance, though. They must be as luaded as they are for good reason.

Good luck and good hunting.Thanks.

Oh and btw, check out Batman and Robin - the Robin character is of very different stock to other Robins, he's a psychopath!Psycho Robin, blithe Rogin, gaudy Robin; there all the same to me: LAME!

[Jorriss]

Psycho Robin, blithe Rogin, gaudy Robin; there all the same to me: LAME!
Have you really looked at Robin from a perspective where he isn't Batmans partner? There are a lot of solo stories for Tim Drake, or a team up with him and Nightwing, that are simply fantastic.

[arp2008]

I can understand where you're coming from in all of this. I've never been a big robin fan myself (though there are some stories with him in it that I adore) and I definitely understand your hesitations on Loeb, but trust us. The Long Halloween and Dark Victory completely worth your time and money.

They're both incredible stories that show that, when the mood strikes just right and the planets align in his favor, Loeb can actually make some incredible, incredible work.All right. Its good to know you share my perspective yet still hold those book in high enough regard recommend them. They've definitely made the list (assuming the art hold up my insane scrutiny).

[arp2008]

Have you really looked at Robin from a perspective where he isn't Batmans partner? There are a lot of solo stories for Tim Drake, or a team up with him and Nightwing, that are simply fantastic. Tim Drake is my least favorite of them all. If theres any Robin I'd like to see in a Batman story its Dick as Nightwing. Other than that, Robins are and forever will be what I find to be the only flaw in Batmans world.

[Personamanx]

Well if Tim is your most disliked than there's just no Changing ya.
We can now All stop trying to convince you that the Robin's do not suck.

[arp2008]

As someone else who is not a fan of the Robins (they're fine on their own, but I don't like Batman having a sidekick) I can sympathize with the thread starter. Though they have already been recommended, I will also support Batman Year One, and Hush. In fact I believe that Hush was released as a single volume today. The Killing Joke by Alan Moore is pretty cool too. I have not gotten to read it, but I've heard people gush about how good The Long Halloween is.Yep. Several contributers have already recommended all those you mentioned. With over 800 plus issues in Detective Comics and 600 plus Batman, not to mention whatever other titles I've forgot to name, are those really all there is of GOOD stories free of Robins existence?

Well if Tim is your most disliked than there's just no Changing ya.Why do you say that? Is he, in your opinion, the best of all?

[nepenthes]

Was Killer Croc ever a black gangsta in normal continuity?

He was a gang leader when he was first introduced in the early 80's - showing up to meetings and clubhouses and throwing everyone aound, but they weren't really doing the gangsta thing in comics back then I suposse. Azzarello first pimped him out in Broken City, all furs and jewelry and ghetto talk, that was about 2004

Yep. Several contributers have already recommended all those you mentioned. With over 800 plus issues in Detective Comics and 600 plus Batman, not to mention whatever other titles I've forgot to name, are those really all there is of GOOD stories free of Robins existence?

Why do you say that? Is he, in your opinion, the best of the all?

All the stories we've recomended are trades only, very different from the material avaialble in singls and back bins, there's years worth of stuff uncollected and countless good stories without Robin. They're old school though so you probably wouldn;t get into them straight away. A starting in trades is just so much easier.

Anything from the Moench/Kelly or Wagner/Grant/Breyfogle runs from the early 90's would be worth sampling, just look for an interesting cover with those names on it

All the Robins are very different. The stories with Tim are probably the best, as a character I like Dick but as a 'Robin' I like Jason Todd in the role.


Psycho Robin, blithe Rogin, gaudy Robin; there all the same to me: LAME!

ha you have no idea what Damian's actually like :cool: . seriously pick up Batman & Robin 1 and 2, it's only two issues, an off-the-wall ongoing series that you can get it on from the beginning and you have a chance to see how Robin can actually work. Even putting Robin or Dick Gryson aside this would be a great place to start reading batman right here, it's just a good comic

there's a point to the colours of the costume btw

[Infinity Man]

Yep. Several contributers have already recommended all those you mentioned. With over 800 plus issues in Detective Comics and 600 plus Batman, not to mention whatever other titles I've forgot to name, are those really all there is of GOOD stories free of Robins existence?

I'm sure there is more, but the problem is I'm new to this, so I'm still looking for good ones too. Another problem is, because I'm new, I can't say "you should try to hunt down Detective Comics # whatever". I don't have that much knowledge, or that much of a collection yet.

[Personamanx]

Yep. Several contributers have already recommended all those you mentioned. With over 800 plus issues in Detective Comics and 600 plus Batman, not to mention whatever other titles I've forgot to name, are those really all there is of GOOD stories free of Robins existence?

Why do you say that? Is he, in your opinion, the best of the all?

Well I probably would not be reading DC if Tim did not get me hooked.

[Jorriss]

Why do you say that? Is he, in your opinion, the best of the all?
When it comes to being Robin, without a doubt. Dick Grayson as Nightwing is a different story, but Drake is the best Robin by a mile.

[arp2008]

All the stories we've recomended are trades only, very different from the material avaialble in singls and back bins, there's years worth of stuff uncollected and countless good stories without Robin. They're old school though so you probably wouldn;t get into them straight away. A starting in trades is just so much easier. Understandable. :smile:

Anything from the Moench/Kelly or Wagner/Grant/Breyfogle runs from the early 90's would be worth sampling, just look for an interesting cover with those names on it Those I'll take some time to find.

ha you have no idea what Damian's actually like :cool: . seriously pick up Batman & Robin 1 and 2, it's only two issues, an off-the-wall ongoing series that you can get it on from the beginning and you have a chance to see how Robin can actually work. Even putting Robin or Dick Gryson aside this would be a great place to start reading batman right here, it's just a good comic Its been reviewed as one of the best of the relaunched Batman line fo comics. It's not one I'll ignore.

there's a point to the colours of the costume btwPlease, elucidate. I have a feeling I know what your going to say, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as they say.

[arp2008]

When it comes to being Robin, without a doubt. Dick Grayson as Nightwing is a different story, but Drake is the best Robin by a mile.Hush features Nightwing significantly, does it not? If not that I wouldn't mind any stories where him and Batman are together.

Well I probably would not be reading DC if Tim did not get me hooked.Wow. That really says a lot! Do you remember THE story that made him your favorite Robin, or was it a over period of time and several stories that made your appreciation for the character grow? If so, what were the best of those?

[Jorriss]

Hush features Nightwing significantly, does it not? If not that I wouldn't mind any stories where him and Batman are together.
It does not. He's in it, but hardly significant. Tim Drake is in Hush about equal to Nightwing though.

In either event, Nightwing is in Hush as a plot device for Batman, you don't really get to learn or get a feel for Nightwing as a character much.

[Personamanx]

Wow. That really says a lot! Do you remember THE story that made him your favorite Robin, or was it a over period of time and several stories that made your appreciation for the character grow? If so, what were the best of those?

Well I only got into comics somewhat recently 2004-05ish. And at first I was strictly Marvel, but Out of Curiousity I read some of my Friends issues of the "Robin" ongoing. They were the "One Year Later" issues. Not certain on the Numbers because like I said they were my Friend's comics. In General I think all of the Robin Ongoing was pretty good (The Issues I've read have been anywhere from the Earliest issues to the final ones) I know you you probably won't want to read the Robin Ongoing but it was a good read. So is the new "Red Robin" Series starring Tim Drake. But if you read some of his ongoing I think you could find some appreciation or at least tolerance of th Robin's or at least Tim Drake.

But If you read the On Year Later Issues, and don't find some value in Tim Drake I cannot see your opinion changing.

[Captain Jim]

Incidentally, is Batman the flagship Batman title? If not, what is the ASM of the Batman comics?

It was until just recently, but since June, Batman & Robin is now considered the flagship title.

[mofo]

Look for more Batman oriented comics. But thanks for the suggestion.

Not in continuity?

Batman: Year 100? Never heard of that one.

Sorry for the late reply...

The man who laughs is not focused on the Joker. It's focused on Batman and Jim Gordon and how they deal with the Joker

Batman: Black & White is a mix of in continuity and out-of-continuity stories i believe....

Check out Batman: Year 100. I think it's good enough to be deemed a "classic". Some psychotic art too (we need more Paul Pope on Batman!)

[Deason]

It was originallly a four-issue mini series from the late 80s. I don't know if it'd be difficult or costly to track down single issues, but the trade is readily available.

Batman: Year One was originally published as just four more regular issues of the Batman monthly comic book, #404-407 from memory. (Surely among the best and most influential regular issues of Batman ever printed!) It had what they now call "trade dress" of "Batman: Year One", and was a "mini-series within a series". These issues were among the first Batman books edited by Denny O'Neil.

As for top-notch Batman stories without Robin, many of the first 99 issues of Batman:Legends of the Dark Knight are outstanding and none of them have Robin in sight. There have been threads in the past where people have recommended their favourite arcs from this great book. Pretty much anything in the first 50 issues is both interesting and well done, and much, if not all, of the later parts of the series live up to this.

[fraggaboom]

I just put together a complete Doug Moench/Kelley Jones Batman run at Chicago Comic-con. I don't think I paid more than $1.50 for an issue, and most were less. The run's never been collected, but it's pretty much Robin-free and shouldn't be too terribly difficult to find.

You could also try Gotham After Midnight. It's got sweet Kelley Jones art, pretty sure there are no Robins, and it was just recently collected.

[arp2008]

I just put together a complete Doug Moench/Kelley Jones Batman run at Chicago Comic-con. I don't think I paid more than $1.50 for an issue, and most were less. The run's never been collected, but it's pretty much Robin-free and shouldn't be too terribly difficult to find.What happens in that run?

You could also try Gotham After Midnight. It's got sweet Kelley Jones art, pretty sure there are no Robins, and it was just recently collected.GAM doesn't sound too familiar. Is it in continuity?

It was until just recently, but since June, Batman & Robin is now considered the flagship title. I've heard many good things about it save for one pressing criticism many seem to share every month - it finishes too fast. I hate that more than anything else in a comic. I like to get my money's worth.

Well I only got into comics somewhat recently 2004-05ish. And at first I was strictly Marvel, but Out of Curiousity I read some of my Friends issues of the "Robin" ongoing. They were the "One Year Later" issues. Not certain on the Numbers because like I said they were my Friend's comics. In General I think all of the Robin Ongoing was pretty good (The Issues I've read have been anywhere from the Earliest issues to the final ones) I know you you probably won't want to read the Robin Ongoing but it was a good read. So is the new "Red Robin" Series starring Tim Drake. But if you read some of his ongoing I think you could find some appreciation or at least tolerance of th Robin's or at least Tim Drake.

But If you read the On Year Later Issues, and don't find some value in Tim Drake I cannot see your opinion changing.As long as the Robin character exists, period, my opinion won't change.

It does not. He's in it, but hardly significant. Tim Drake is in Hush about equal to Nightwing though.

In either event, Nightwing is in Hush as a plot device for Batman, you don't really get to learn or get a feel for Nightwing as a character much.The only way I see my self tolerating Robin in a Batman story is through Nightwing. Does anyone have any good recent Batman and Nightwing stories in mind?