How Can You Not Love Ethan Van Sciver? [Archive]

Lester C.

08-08-2009, 12:38 PM

Ethan is unfailingly polite and a very good artist with a popular style. If it weren't for his political opinions, which he is constitutionally entitled too even though they scare the hell out of me, I really think he'd be much more popular. I honestly think if he were a closet conservative his career would have a higher trajectory than it is now. I realize with titles like Flash and Green Lantern you might not think his career is suffering, but I honestly think his political leanings are what keeping him from the next and final tier of work like Final Criss, Infinite Crisis, Blackest Night etc. His political leaning also limit him, as I can't think of any major openly conservative Marvel talent.

bert

08-08-2009, 12:52 PM

I'm not a fan of his politics, but I've enjoyed interacting with him here at CBR and also in real-live when I've said hello to him at cons. (I think it was a Dragon*con, but it could have been at SDCC back in 05).

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 12:55 PM

I was unaware of any Right-Wing leanings. What has he said that's been controversial?

Spackling Compound

08-08-2009, 12:56 PM

Not only is he one of the best artists in comics, he is freaking hysterical.

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ethan+van+sciver&init=quick#/video/video.php?v=1185047021626

You've got to check out his video section.

Seriously.

Isn't he conservative? I think that's pretty much a no-no for the YABSers.

Lester C.

08-08-2009, 12:56 PM

Because he's a filthy conservative nutjob! Grahh!

Nutjob is inappropriate. I don't dispute that he is on the extreme end of the conservative spectrum and if his politics were enacted I'd leave the country. However nuts jobs are insane and, more importantly, a danger to themselves and others which is why we lock them up even though they haven't done anything wrong. As much as you disagree with Ethan's politics there is nothing emotionally unstable about him.

Alex L

08-08-2009, 12:59 PM

Lester C.

08-08-2009, 01:04 PM

This video either has been removed from Facebook or is not visible due to privacy settings.

Not a fan of the guy's politics, but that's far from a deal-breaker for me. We've all got our own ways of seeing the world.

I do know of one indy writer who has had... less-than-ideal interactions with EVS, and is boycotting any titles he's working on.

For me politics isn't a deal breaker but whether or not I like the person is. For instance I agree with almost everything Peter David says, but because he is...abusive to people who disagree with him, I can no longer read his work even though he was once one of my favorite novelists of all time.

Conversely I can still read works by Ethan Van Sciver and Chuck Dixon even though I disagree passionately with their political views, because they seem to be nice guys.

friginator

08-08-2009, 01:14 PM

I was unaware of any Right-Wing leanings. What has he said that's been controversial?

Here's the whole thing in the words of Mightgodking:

It is always interesting to see a comics professional reveal themselves as a right-wing nabob, but my favorite bit comes when, after Van Sciver asserts that the United States is a good place to live in terms of having a high degree of social mobility and people rapidly point out that compared to most other first-world nations the USA actually is notso-hotso on the social mobility scale, that he resorts to sarcasm and moving the goalposts.

Still, I would encourage Van Sciver to blather some more about his political and economic philosophies, because he has a long way to go before he can catch up to the likes of John Byrne or (glory hallelujah!) Dave Sim.

Mightygodking has spoken! I read that particular discussion, and Van Sciver was simply arguing his point, albeit a conservative one. You could say that he was a little rude about some of it, but he's not some crazy wacko. This is a fairly liberal board, so arguments like his just get more scrutiny. Also, Van Sciver was very open and gracious about Mightygodking's accusations in a later thread. Regardless of whether someone agrees with him or not, he's just saying what he believes, andin my opinion there's nothing wrong with that.

Nutjob is inappropriate. I don't dispute that he is on the extreme end of the conservative spectrum and if his politics were enacted I'd leave the country. However nuts jobs are insane and, more importantly, a danger to themselves and others which is why we lock them up even though they haven't done anything wrong. As much as you disagree with Ethan's politics there is nothing emotionally unstable about him.

That was actually meant as a joke. I probably shlould have made that clearer. I actually agree with a few of his opinions.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 01:15 PM

I honestly think if he were a closet conservative his career would have a higher trajectory than it is now. I realize with titles like Flash and Green Lantern you might not think his career is suffering, but I honestly think his political leanings are what keeping him from the next and final tier of work like Final Criss, Infinite Crisis, Blackest Night etc. His political leaning also limit him, as I can't think of any major openly conservative Marvel talent.

Well, as someone who ISN'T a closet conservative ...

I remember posting after the Dixie Chicks imbroglio about how if they had kept their mouths shut, their sales wouldn't have taken a huge dip and they'd be making a lot more money, much like how Dolly Parton tends to stay out of politics and for that exact reason. Entertainers are paid to entertain, and the second they take a side, they then alienate half of their paying audience. Well ...the general consensus on that thread was that the Dixie Chicks were Brave, Courageous Souls Speaking Their Minds and that Money is Less Important than Their Personal Beliefs, and These are Brave Performers to whom Money Takes a Back Seat To Conviction.

Well guess what? If it applies to the Dixie Chicks ... then it applies to Ethan.

I should also point out that if Gail had brought up Steve Englehart, then no one would be talking about his politics.

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 01:24 PM

This reminds me of Colleen Coover.
As some of you know, she did a piece for the gay rights campaign, No H8 a month or two ago.

When I talked to her, she said she was reluctant to post it on her site, as being a freelance artist, her entire livelihood depends on companies going to her site, looking at her portfolio, and then hiring her. Seems to me that it was probably a wise decision.

Lester C.

08-08-2009, 01:27 PM

Well, as someone who ISN'T a closet conservative ...

I remember posting after the Dixie Chicks imbroglio about how if they had kept their mouths shut, their sales wouldn't have taken a huge dip and they'd be making a lot more money, much like how Dolly Parton tends to stay out of politics and for that exact reason. Entertainers are paid to entertain, and the second they take a side, they then alienate half of their paying audience. Well ...the general consensus on that thread was that the Dixie Chicks were Brave, Courageous Souls Speaking Their Minds and that Money is Less Important than Their Personal Beliefs, and These are Brave Performers to whom Money Takes a Back Seat To Conviction.

Well guess what? If it applies to the Dixie Chicks ... then it applies to Ethan.

I should also point out that if Gail had brought up Steve Englehart, then no one would be talking about his politics.

The Dixie Chicks comment was made right after 9-11 so ANY critique of the Bush administration would have been met with scorn. As a general rule though if you are liberal you can run your mouth off as much as you want and it's not really going to hurt you. Not the case with conservatives.

FeminineMystique

08-08-2009, 01:30 PM

The Dixie Chicks comment was made right after 9-11 so ANY critique of the Bush administration would have been met with scorn. As a general rule though if you are liberal you can run your mouth off as much as you want and it's not really going to hurt you. Not the case with conservatives.

That's because when conservatives run their mouths of it generally ends up being stupid, bigoted, ignorant or a gloriously repulsive combination of all three.

Lester C.

08-08-2009, 01:34 PM

That's because when conservatives run their mouths of it generally ends up being stupid, bigoted, ignorant or a gloriously repulsive combination of all three.

Even if that were the case, they still have a right to be heard. Everyone has the right to be heard, even if you hate what they say. Especially if you hate what they say, freedom of speech is one of the reasons why even a cynic like me loves my country.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 01:36 PM

The Dixie Chicks comment was made right after 9-11 .

Lester, they said it on March 10th of 2003 ... something like a year and a half afterwards.

Lester C.

08-08-2009, 01:39 PM

Lester, they said it on March 10th of 2003 ... something like a year and a half afterwards.

Wasn't that the month and year the Iraq war started? If it was than my point still applies, because the Bush Administration would have been wildly popular at the start of a war.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 01:41 PM

That's because when conservatives run their mouths of it generally ends up being stupid, bigoted, ignorant or a gloriously repulsive combination of all three.

I so must add this to the list of Liberal Generalities on YABS.

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 01:43 PM

Samy

08-08-2009, 01:47 PM

We all loving bashing conservative idiots when they say something biggoted, but how come liberals are rarely held accountable for thier words.Because they're on our side. People love finding faults in the opposing side but are all too eager to forgive their own side.

And the Internet is a liberal domain.

I'm sure at GOP conventions it's the other way around, they love bashing liberal idiots but rarely hold conservatives accountible.

It's all in what crowd you are.

FeminineMystique

08-08-2009, 01:48 PM

I so must add this to the list of Liberal Generalities on YABS.

I did say "Generally" not all the time. I'm not saying all conservatives are bigoted, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of them ARE.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 01:52 PM

I'll never understand how the media works. We all loving bashing conservative idiots when they say something biggoted, but how come liberals are rarely held accountable for thier words.

Hell, Wanda Sykes said (albeit jokingly) that she hoped Rush Limbaugh's heart failed. Is that not terrible?

The last time I can think of any liberal star being seriously chastized is when Sharon Stone said she thought the horrific school collapses in China were a result of Karma for the governent bullying Tibet.

Leaving the media out of it, it occurs here because the clear majority of posters here on YABS are left of center politically, and as a result Liberal positions are simply considered normal, and anything that deviates from what the majority agrees on must be attacked, just looking on this thread which shouldn't even be about politics at all. Like I said earlier, had Gail mentioned someone of a liberal bent, their politics would never have come up.

Of late I've started to notice an increase in politically-based snobbery/bigotry here, and it's starting to annoy me. I would think Ethan's art and storytelling awesome even were I a liberal, but apparently you can't say one good thing about a conservative anywhere on YABS without a mob grabbing pitchforks and torches, based on what I see here on this very thread.

We should be talking about how awesome Ethan is, and as far as the politics ... this is thread derailment that I'm against. Yes, you heard that right folks!

FeminineMystique

08-08-2009, 01:55 PM

Leaving the media out of it, it occurs here because the clear majority of posters here on YABS are left of center politically, and as a result Liberal positions are simply considered normal, and anything that deviates from what the majority agrees on must be attacked. Like I said earlier, had Gail mentioned someone of a liberal bent, their politics would never have come up.

Another reason why YABS is an awesome forum to post on:biggrin:

Samy

08-08-2009, 01:55 PM

I think everybody should just stop with words and start posting pix because one picture is worth a thousand words.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 02:05 PM

I did say "Generally" not all the time. I'm not saying all conservatives are bigoted, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of them ARE.

And I would counter by saying people in general are bigoted. I lived at one point in a place that would be considered a liberal mecca, and I never saw such racism as I saw there, most of it directed towards their hired help. Heck, when I started coming out, I got more support from the Young Republicans than anyone else, and I was out there with my electric blue hair at that point.

Let's take your statement and put it this way, a lot of liberals are bigoted too. Someone can easily share their general outlook on political matters and not be a bigot, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of them are.

Samy

08-08-2009, 02:08 PM

http://comicoverload.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/gl7sm.jpg

http://blogdosadovski.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/sinestro-corps-war.jpg

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/news/images/0807/flash_rebirth.jpg

Spackling Compound

08-08-2009, 02:11 PM

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 02:15 PM

What I really liked about Evan is all the thinking he puts into his work that you don't normally see ... there was an interview he did in one of the GL books where he discussed what every insignia should look like and why.

Okay, that and how in GL: Rebirth, how he differentiated each GL with a different way of rigns working.

In fact, the only thing I can think of that Ethan did that ever looked wierd to me was how when Guy Gardner reappeared in Rebirth, how it looked like he had a bald spot! :eek:

Weetomuncher

08-08-2009, 02:16 PM

I'm a Conservative myself and my parents also vote for the Conservative party.

I have some strict views on things like crime and terrorism but I think I'm moderate on many other issues. I don't agree with xenophobic wackos and the difference between keeping control and going over the top can be small at times.

Moderate Conservatism doesn't do any harm, it is the closet nazis and the people who want to preserve everything the way it was in the 'good old days' who bring shame on Conservatives.

Samy

08-08-2009, 02:17 PM

Yeah, I can concur on that. Not just a mindless drawing machine but a thinking one. Have to respect that.

friginator

08-08-2009, 02:19 PM

And I would counter by saying people in general are bigoted. I lived at one point in a place that would be considered a liberal mecca, and I never saw such racism as I saw there, most of it directed towards their hired help. Heck, when I started coming out, I got more support from the Young Republicans than anyone else, and I was out there with my electric blue hair at that point.

Let's take your statement and put it this way, a lot of liberals are bigoted too. Someone can easily share their general outlook on political matters and not be a bigot, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of them are.

Exactly! Thank you. There are bigots in every political group, race or country. People see the bigotry they want (even if it's not there), but they never let themselves realize that it's not exclusive to anyone. Including conservatives. People think christians and republicans, both associated with conservatives, are automatically bigots. It's just not true.

beetlebum

08-08-2009, 02:24 PM

Threads like this get my hackles up.

They just reinforce that some people are content to reduce another set of individuals to essentialist assumptions, viewed through the lens of anamorphosis, filtered by bias.

The hilarious thing is that the same people who are doing this are the ones who also claim to be "against" using generalities and stereotypes.

But I guess inductive reasoning and using broad brushes are okay when it comes to conservatives.

The thing is, some of us are on your side when it comes to think like marriage for same-sex couples. You run the risk of potentially isolating your supporters when you say "conservatives are like [x]".

I'd encourage you to read the works of Russell Kirk, Andrew Sullivan and Fareed Zakaria to gain greater insight on what conservatism is about.

But then again, maybe some of you just need to keep The Other at an arms length, because you need a perceived enemy and "righteous cause."

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 02:25 PM

And I would counter by saying people in general are bigoted. I lived at one point in a place that would be considered a liberal mecca, and I never saw such racism as I saw there, most of it directed towards their hired help. Heck, when I started coming out, I got more support from the Young Republicans than anyone else, and I was out there with my electric blue hair at that point.

Let's take your statement and put it this way, a lot of liberals are bigoted too. Someone can easily share their general outlook on political matters and not be a bigot, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of them are.

I live in Chicago, and I've encountered some racism in Lincoln Park, which is supposed to be a very "post-modern trendy hipster" area. So I do agree with you here, 100 %.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 02:45 PM

Re-railing thread now! Back to the awesomeness that is Ethan!

Oh, I so wish I had this in my room ...

http://comicrelated.com/graphics/solicits/dc/oct09/1SpecialEvent/BN04_solicit.jpg

Michael P

08-08-2009, 02:47 PM

'E smells funny.

Alex L

08-08-2009, 02:51 PM

We should be talking about how awesome Ethan is, and as far as the politics ... this is thread derailment that I'm against. Yes, you heard that right folks!

I dunno, his artwork is awful purty but -- especially after Flash: Rebirth -- I'm not convinced it portrays motion all that well.

To me, as the artwork gets more detailed, the panels start to look more like stop-motion photography; a series of moments in time instead of the more fluid actions you get through more cartoonish illustrations.

Or maybe I'm just rambling.

Karl O'Neill

08-08-2009, 02:53 PM

Re-railing thread now! Back to the awesomeness that is Ethan!

Oh, I so wish I had this in my room ...

http://comicrelated.com/graphics/solicits/dc/oct09/1SpecialEvent/BN04_solicit.jpg

That is by Ivan reis as it is signed by him.

But I agree.

Ethan is a top guy and a great artist.

Did you know he sent me a copy of the hard-to-get FLASH: IRON HEIGHTS one shot that he done with Geoff Johns years ago.

No charge. Signed, sealed and delivered.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 03:03 PM

Darnit, you're right! That WAS Reis!

Okay then ...

http://www.comicbitsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/warofindies.jpg

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 03:17 PM

Darnit, you're right! That WAS Reis!

Okay then ...

http://www.comicbitsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/warofindies.jpg

Is this for War of Independents?

That JonoGuy

08-08-2009, 03:23 PM

I'm not a huge fan of his, but I have enjoyed some of his cover work.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/315/76954-142196-jean-grey.jpg

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 03:26 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9241/364755-18127-128217-1-justice-league-of-am_super.jpg

Wow....:eek:

Samy

08-08-2009, 03:29 PM

That Queen Bee cover makes me hungry for melted cheese...

friginator

08-08-2009, 03:35 PM

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/x-men/124-1.jpg

http://www.comicrelated.com/gallery/greenlanternrebirth/greenlanternrebirth2.jpg

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 03:48 PM

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/52_4H-Cv1.jpg

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 03:51 PM

http://www.emeralddawn.com/checklists/images/greenlantern9alt.jpg

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 03:56 PM

Love his Emma Frost:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/1013/88421-9121-106161-1-new-x-men_super.jpg

Kevinroc

08-08-2009, 03:58 PM

http://www.newsarama.com/preview_images/dcnew/apr09/5/fls_mercury_falling_cvr.jpg

Samy

08-08-2009, 03:59 PM

Why is there an enormous testicle on Max's jaw?

friginator

08-08-2009, 04:07 PM

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9241/364755-18127-128217-1-justice-league-of-am_super.jpg

I want to love that cover, but it's hard once you've read what's behind it.

Sabrinaset

08-08-2009, 04:19 PM

Just hope that makes up for confusing his work for Reis' ... :redface:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Ethan_Van_Sciver_2007.jpg/512px-Ethan_Van_Sciver_2007.jpg

spidervenom

08-08-2009, 04:24 PM

I believe I met him in artist alley at sdcc last year, good man.

Free-Man

08-08-2009, 04:28 PM

Just hope that makes up for confusing his work for Reis' ... :redface:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Ethan_Van_Sciver_2007.jpg/512px-Ethan_Van_Sciver_2007.jpg

DOUBLE CHIN ALERT!!!:tongue:

Mister Blisterfists

08-08-2009, 05:20 PM

I could do without all the fanatical towing of the right wing agenda, but I like his art, and he's a pretty damn good guy.

always fun to speak with at a con. AND he's an "Impulse" artist, so that's a bonus.

just wish he'd come to PITTSBURGH, but again, his political agenda gets in the way of that. To each his own, though. He's got every right to believe it.

I do love his art, and his personality (at least when not talking politics, as we are diametrically opposed). He is a great, and friendly professional.

Absolutely polite, as was stated before. And genuinely appreciative of his fans, especially fans of his early work (such as myself, who is an unabashed Impulse fan).

Kevinroc

08-08-2009, 05:45 PM

Why is there an enormous testicle on Max's jaw?

Because Ethan's Max is modeled after Jay Leno. :wink:

scout1279

08-08-2009, 06:13 PM

I'm not overly familiar with EVS's work, since he hasn't been on too many projects that I've had much interest in reading, but I've really liked what I've seen. His Newsarama column never failed to crack me up though. He's insane, but in the good way.

FeminineMystique

08-08-2009, 07:20 PM

I want to love that cover, but it's hard once you've read what's behind it.

True. but no story, no matter how badly written, can make me entirely dislike that cover:biggrin: :wink:

bert

08-08-2009, 08:06 PM

and no one has posted any of the art that originally put him on the map in the Comics world?

"CyberFrog"

http://www.robotplanet.co.uk/USERIMAGES/CYBER-FROG-VOL-1.JPG

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm67/vander_spawn/Collection/cbf2.jpg?t=1249783571

DavidAllred

08-08-2009, 08:29 PM

http://www.numbmonkey.com/SeanStoryImages/GLantern4.jpg

One of my all time favs. I've got the Flash Rebirth cover hanging on the wall behind me, and of all days I have on an EVS GL t-shirt. He signed my GL:Rebirth #1 for my son in Knoxville last year. Got to chat briefly with him... stand up guy.

Look forward to the day when an EVS thread can get cranking without mentioning his politics. Seems to be one of the few that sparks debate. Guess he's his own man, so I agree or disagree, I like that too.

Cam63

08-08-2009, 08:32 PM

Because he's a filthy conservative nutjob! Grahh!

I used to think nutjobs were liberal.

...or liberal-ish.

mgs

08-08-2009, 11:07 PM

Hell, Wanda Sykes said (albeit jokingly) that she hoped Rush Limbaugh's heart failed. Is that not terrible?
On that I have to say, The Daily Show tried to make like she was making a joke about it or something. But I did not see that statement made in any context, other than, she wants him to die.

Now, that might be her case and political/personal belief, but it was a bit shocking to hear, whether or not I agree with her.

and no one has posted any of the art that originally put him on the map in the Comics world?

"CyberFrog"
"] ("http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm67/vander_spawn/Collection/cbf2.jpg?t=1249783571[/IMG)
Oh, definitely bert! I loved those comics!! :smile:

But Ethan has publically denounced his role in creating those. :frown:

btw, I wonder which ring he'd give to Cyberfrog? :confused:

TROUBLEZ

08-08-2009, 11:30 PM

mgs

08-08-2009, 11:40 PM

He also brought up his penis size which was weird.

Not knowing the discussion, that may have had something to do with something that happened a while ago in which some artist, maybe it was James Kolchalka, posted or put his penis in one of his books. *remembers* Oh, wait! That was Rob Schrab!

So, I think that may have been after...but not sure, anyways, I think there was some brief discussion or something, or maybe I'm really not remembering what happened on that..hmm...sorry. :redface:

40footwolf

08-08-2009, 11:53 PM

I disagree with Tucker Stone's assessment, but he put his problems with Van Sciver's artwork pretty hilariously worded, as usual, and I can totally see where he's coming from:

"Some people really enjoy the Ethan Van Sciver style of comics artwork. Not us. It's unbearable to look at, this mishmash of insanely detailed bullshit, a comic that laughs right in the face of the density of a Paul Gulacy fight scene or a Bryan Hitch cityscape and says "Nah, that ain't how you do it. Needs more fucking lines." There's just no flow to any of this stuff, the idea that less could ever be more gets fired off in a cannon. The screw-up stuff--like the page where Barry's shirt is clearly a white button up, only to become a red button up with Flash lightning bolt--that's general super-hero comic book art fuck-up, so it's not a huge problem. It's the contempt for comics that comes through, the idea that things like a panel layout that cares at all for high-falluting art fag notions like "readability" that's so repellent about this shit."

Sabrinaset

08-09-2009, 12:03 AM

I don't have a problem with Van Sciver's political leanings. It's the way he goes about it that I dislike.

In a thread here he was being very obtuse in the discussion, to the point of changing his signature to, "Not all liberals are deviants but all deviants are liberal."
He also brought up his penis size which was weird.

Instead of bringing up some intelligent points he came across as immature, rude and ignorant.

I wouldn't buy comics with his art if it he had been a liberal and still had the same attitude around here.

Which then brings us back to the point that it's a-okay if a liberal does it, but if a conservative does ... hey, don't we have someone here whose sig for well over a year has been "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives. ~ John Stuart Mill" WHY, YES WE DO! (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/member.php?u=7936)

But when a non-conservative says it, I bet that kind of wording doesn't seem so bad to you now, does it?

I can't defend the penis size thing though! :wink:

Flâneur

08-09-2009, 04:37 AM

I think some of his artwork is great but I'd not lay down a dollar for his work, not after the debacle that went down at X-Fan ages ago where he trolled all the queer people until they left. His posts here have convinced me he is of still that same mentality but just acts out less out of respect for Gail. So that's less of an issue with his conservatism and more his being an arse hat to people who he's not sympathetic to, ideologically.

Still, I do love his Green Lantern designs.

the4thpip

08-09-2009, 04:48 AM

Nutjob is inappropriate. I don't dispute that he is on the extreme end of the conservative spectrum and if his politics were enacted I'd leave the country. However nuts jobs are insane and, more importantly, a danger to themselves and others which is why we lock them up even though they haven't done anything wrong. As much as you disagree with Ethan's politics there is nothing emotionally unstable about him.

I think the "McCarthy was a good guy" stance would put anybody firmly in nutjob territory, no?

the4thpip

08-09-2009, 04:52 AM

http://www.comicrelated.com/gallery/greenlanternrebirth/greenlanternrebirth2.jpg

I always considered that one of Ethan's weakest efforts. It looks like the Hal Jordan float at Macy's Thanksgiving Parade.

the4thpip

08-09-2009, 04:56 AM

He also brought up his penis size which was weird.

Instead of bringing up some intelligent points he came across as immature, rude and ignorant.

In Ethan's defense, he does have a juvenile approach to sexuality. He used to hide the word "sex" in his drawings to be clever.

EMeadow

08-09-2009, 05:27 AM

In Ethan's defense, he does have a juvenile approach to sexuality. He used to hide the word "sex" in his drawings to be clever.

Ethan's got a lot juvenile approaches to a lot of his political leanings as welll, which is why on the Bendis Board he ends most sentences with a smiley face.

He's one of the good conservatives, far more to center then anyone thinks. Trust me, he handles himself very well in the major poltical threads on Jinxworld. We're always glad to have his dissenting opinion and discussions.

Cause he will make fun of the more hardcore conservatives on the board as well. :biggrin:

I mean, come on he *loves* Ann Coulter. You know he's just horsing around! :biggrin:

Lester C.

08-09-2009, 06:41 AM

I think the "McCarthy was a good guy" stance would put anybody firmly in nutjob territory, no?

That's his political opinion, which I admit scare the hell out of me. But his actions have been uniformly civil. He has a reputation for being nice, but extreme in his political opinions which he is entitled to have under the Constitution.

the4thpip

08-09-2009, 08:46 AM

That's his political opinion, which I admit scare the hell out of me. But his actions have been uniformly civil. He has a reputation for being nice, but extreme in his political opinions which he is entitled to have under the Constitution.

Somebody here claimed that he was "trolling the queers" on another board. Now, I have not heard about this and I would like some more details about that before I agree on his civility.

shrike

08-09-2009, 09:01 AM

I don't know him as a person so I won't discuss if I 'love' him or not.

His work is very Phil Jimenez-ish. It's better than most artists currently out there but it's still not my cup of tea.

rick

08-09-2009, 09:05 AM

Spackling Compound

08-09-2009, 09:09 AM

In Ethan's defense, he does have a juvenile approach to sexuality. He used to hide the word "sex" in his drawings to be clever.

Or maybe he was being ironic and alluding to some of the old EC hidden words.

But good wording there: "defense" in regard to juvenile approaches to sexuality.

"Hey, hey, guys, he may be a conservative but he laughs at cum and boobies."
"Aww..ok, he's sort of like us. Haha...fisting!"
"Exactly!"

Spackling Compound

08-09-2009, 09:09 AM

Back when Ethan was posting on YABS he would write things that would make Samurai seem reasonable.

I don't care how good an artist he is, and honestly he isn't that good to begin with, he is just plain suspect as a human being.

He defended gay marriage pretty reasonably. His writing on it is still not lost in the YABS graveyard.

rick

08-09-2009, 09:11 AM

He defended gay marriage pretty reasonably. His writing on it is still not lost in the YABS graveyard.

Gay Marriage is not the only issue on the planet, and a person can support gay rights and still be a total dick.

Spackling Compound

08-09-2009, 09:23 AM

Gay Marriage is not the only issue on the planet

New here, rick?

the4thpip

08-09-2009, 01:12 PM

friginator

08-09-2009, 02:00 PM

I don't care how good an artist he is, and honestly he isn't that good to begin with, he is just plain suspect as a human being.
Yeahbuwhat? Clearly something is either wrong with you, or wrong with everbody else.

40footwolf

08-09-2009, 02:38 PM

Yeahbuwhat? Clearly something is either wrong with you, or wrong with everbody else.
You're right, dudes can't have opinions on stuff. That's part of the Constitution, right? No opinions?

friginator

08-09-2009, 02:52 PM

"Suspect as a human being"? Based on what? Posts he's made on the internet?

Alex L

08-09-2009, 03:03 PM

"Suspect as a human being"? Based on what? Posts he's made on the internet?

That would be an insight into his psyche, so it's far from out of the question.

(As a general thing, not as it applies to any one particular person.)

Mister Blisterfists

08-09-2009, 04:40 PM

Sooo.....he's Pro-Gay Marriage?

if so, he's not nearly as polarizing as I thought....

I may have to re-evaluate my opinion of him completely!

though, my opinion of him is that he's a very nice guy, that won't change. the only thing that'll change is that I think he's even NICER than I thought.

I have conservative friends, I even have friends in the clergy. We keep it civil, as we don't ususally bring up politics.

Sabrinaset

08-09-2009, 04:54 PM

Gay Marriage is not the only issue on the planet, and a person can support gay rights and still be a total dick.

Soooo by that same logic, a person could be ANTI-gay marriage and be a great person to have around then?

stealthwise

08-09-2009, 04:55 PM

Soooo by that same logic, a person could be ANTI-gay marriage and be a great person to have around then?

I don't see why not.

spidervenom

08-09-2009, 04:57 PM

sheez, why is that everyone has it out for Ethan?

friginator

08-09-2009, 05:07 PM

sheez, why is that everyone has it out for Ethan?

This is a very liberal board. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

stealthwise

08-09-2009, 05:11 PM

This is a very liberal board. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I think it has more to do with the types of posts Ethan has made in the past, which have been flippant, disrespectful, and occasionally downright rude. Not all that different from a lot of posters here, but he doesn't post quite as often, so that leaves a lasting impression with many, and his political orientation doesn't help either, as you pointed out.

Guest_1001

08-09-2009, 05:14 PM

Exactly! Thank you. There are bigots in every political group, race or country. People see the bigotry they want (even if it's not there), but they never let themselves realize that it's not exclusive to anyone. Including conservatives. People think christians and republicans, both associated with conservatives, are automatically bigots. It's just not true.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, friginator. Very well said. :smile:

As for Ethan Van Sciver, this is the first I've heard of him (being more of a Marvel fan than a DC one) but I like what I see. Don't know if he'll ever be one of my favourites but I could definitely read certain books month after month if he was illustrating it.

friginator

08-09-2009, 05:19 PM

I think it has more to do with the types of posts Ethan has made in the past, which have been flippant, disrespectful, and occasionally downright rude. Not all that different from a lot of posters here, but he doesn't post quite as often, so that leaves a lasting impression with many, and his political orientation doesn't help either, as you pointed out.

Yeah, he's definitely been rude at times, but he doesn't deserve crap like "suspect as a human being."

stealthwise

08-09-2009, 05:22 PM

Yeah, he's definitely been rude at times, but he doesn't deserve crap like "suspect as a human being."

I didn't follow closely the conversations that Rick had with him, but I wouldn't be surprised if stuff didn't come up that would have led Rick to state the above. Everyone has differing opinions at YABS, and when things like politics and personal beliefs get discussed, there are going to be harsh words tossed around.

rick

08-09-2009, 05:30 PM

Yeah, he's definitely been rude at times, but he doesn't deserve crap like "suspect as a human being."

Sure he does.

From what I've seen of his views, his attitudes and how he plays with others, he's a complete dick.

And for the record I only mention it because Gail asked how someone could possibly not love the guy.

In my opinion, it's easy.

Spackling Compound

08-09-2009, 06:14 PM

This is a very liberal board. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Not only is it a "very liberal board" but it is an obviously very liberal board. Read the instructions (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6880930&postcount=1)!

2a.) Examples of Trolling:
Starting threads that are intentionally inflammatory or specifically intended to insults other posters. That also applies to individuals who post on forums other than YABS at CBR. i.e. Do not come to YABS to complain about and/or insult someone from Comm. Do not come to an obviously very liberal board and post hate speech against any group based on race, creed, color, or sexual orientation. There are entire forums on the internet for that kind of hatred, go post it there. You are welcome to start a thread with dissenting viewpoints, just as long as you are not hateful about it. We support Free Speech, not Hate Speech.

rick

08-09-2009, 06:16 PM

Not only is it a "very liberal board" but it is an obviously very liberal board. Read the instructions (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=6880930&postcount=1)!

It's not like they are legally obligated to treat both political views equally.

Besides liberalism is just plain more fun.

Spackling Compound

08-09-2009, 06:34 PM

It's not like they are legally obligated to treat both political views equally.

Besides liberalism is just plain more fun.

Meh...

It's just like having a sign that says, "Don't be bring that uppity conservative crap in here. We don't take to your kind."

rick

08-09-2009, 06:37 PM

Meh...

It's just like having a sign that says, "Don't be bring that uppity conservative crap in here. We don't take to your kind."

I guess I don't see any problems with that.

If conservatives want to rant, let them go over to Alvaro.

They could use the posters anyway.

Sabrinaset

08-09-2009, 06:47 PM

It's just like having a sign that says, "Don't be bring that uppity conservative crap in here. We don't take to your kind."

I guess I don't see any problems with that.

Well, we'll try not to disturb the liberal groupthink TOO much here, Rick, just for you... because at least you're honest about it.

rick

08-09-2009, 06:49 PM

Well, we'll try not to disturb the liberal groupthink TOO much here, Rick, just for you... because at least you're honest about it.

Now Bree, you know perfectly well that I'm just dicking around.

Sabrinaset

08-09-2009, 06:51 PM

Now Bree, you know perfectly well that I'm just dicking around.

Uhm, actually I didn't think you were joking :redface: ... maybe you needed a smiley at the end of that sentence?

rick

08-09-2009, 06:53 PM

Uhm, actually I didn't think you were joking :redface: ... maybe you needed a smiley at the end of that sentence?

But people keep telling me that emoticons are the work of the devil!!!!! :eek:

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 02:20 PM

Uhm, actually I didn't think you were joking :redface: ... maybe you needed a smiley at the end of that sentence?

I think he turned it into joking when he was called on it by the lone blonde, lesbian moderate-conservative on the board.

Oh...and " :biggrin: "

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 02:56 PM

It's like attending my funeral as a ghost! And I hope my funeral does go a bit like this.

Any of you liberals who are progressive enough to see past my McCarthyite views in order to support my work should know, all profits go straight to the Heritage Foundation, and to the construction of massive work camps to house you all after Obama is finally impeached!! :evilsmile:

I love you too, Gail! :)

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 02:58 PM

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 03:06 PM

Phew.. a smiley. Because without it, people would think you weren't joking.

You...were kidding, right?

What? No! ;)

thehod

08-10-2009, 03:13 PM

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 03:18 PM

Whilst I doubt that myself and Ethan would ever see eye-to-eye on our politics, I do find his art to be of the type that I like. I've particularly liked his costume designs for the members of the various coloured corps members.

Thanks, thehod. And don't worry, soon the only ones who do not see eye to eye with me will have the excuse of being in a kneeling position. You are clearly no such peasant.

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 03:21 PM

Thanks, thehod. And don't worry, soon the only ones who do not see eye to eye with me will have the excuse of being in a kneeling position. You are clearly no such peasant.

Unless they are eye to third eye...which totally would win more liberals!

gryhpon

08-10-2009, 03:48 PM

im hoping to meet you at fan expo canada this year. i tried to meet you last year but i was unable. your art rocks.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 04:47 PM

im hoping to meet you at fan expo canada this year. i tried to meet you last year but i was unable. your art rocks.

Cool, can't wait to see you! Make sure and say, "I'm gryphon from CBG" when you come up, so that I can give you a prize. :smile:

Gail Simone

08-10-2009, 04:50 PM

Sure he does.

From what I've seen of his views, his attitudes and how he plays with others, he's a complete dick.

And for the record I only mention it because Gail asked how someone could possibly not love the guy.

In my opinion, it's easy.

Meh, people think the exact same thing about you, Rick. I get more requests for you to be banned than anyone save Samurai and Briareos.

I'm not saying I agree, I'm just making a point. Lots of people think I'm a dick. Lots of people think you're a dick.

That alone doesn't make someone a 'suspect human being.'

And a LOT of what Ethan says is just intentional shit stirring, I do it myself occasionally.

SUPERECWFAN1

08-10-2009, 05:03 PM

I wanna say this....I posted this in the other thread.... but yeah it goes without saying...Ethan was very great at Heroes Con the day I attended. He was trying his best to sign everyones books before his DC Panel. Rushing to do it and even though I missed my shot , I thought it was cool...he was running late to sign and help everyone out.

Then I came back and he started drawing for a boy in a wheelchair. I thought....thats damn cool to watch him take all that time drawing for him. Even though I missed my shot at gettin a book signed , I walked away thinking he was one of the best pro's in the business.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:04 PM

That's what these filthy leftwingers don't understand SuperECW...I am an angel. :smile:

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 05:07 PM

I'm just not seeing how his views make him a bad person. Hell, has he gone as far as to say he wants to bring back lynching or something?

I may not agree with his political views, but I seriously don't get how not being an enviromentalist makes him an asshole.

This is the horse meat thread all over again...:rolleyes:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:11 PM

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 05:12 PM

I'd like to lynch Keith Olbermann, does that count?

When you go for Maddow, you're in dangerous territory.

gryhpon

08-10-2009, 05:15 PM

Cool, can't wait to see you! Make sure and say, "I'm gryphon from CBG" when you come up, so that I can give you a prize. :smile:

will you be there all weekend or just one or two of the days?

SUPERECWFAN1

08-10-2009, 05:18 PM

That's what these filthy leftwingers don't understand SuperECW...I am an angel. :smile:

You are......you can even draw all of god's Earthly choir and make me wanna buy it. You can call it :

Blackest Night : God's Earthly Angels. (will sell like hotcakes !:tongue: )

I'd like to lynch Keith Olbermann, does that count?

To be honest I wish Keith would go back to ESPN. Used to love him on Sportscenter.

The funniest Olbermann moment I thought was when they had Ben Affleck did that impression on SNL. Where he had Olbermann do his rant that makes no damn sense.... :wink:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:18 PM

When you go for Maddow, you're in dangerous territory.

Oh, she's next. Is she worshiped here?

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:20 PM

will you be there all weekend or just one or two of the days?

gryphon, I'm staying all weekend for this one (it's too long of a flight to just pop in the for day, right? I'm in Charlotte NC) and I promise to sit down and WORK the whole time. So you should have no problem finding me.

gryhpon

08-10-2009, 05:22 PM

gryphon, I'm staying all weekend for this one (it's too long of a flight to just pop in the for day, right? I'm in Charlotte NC) and I promise to sit down and WORK the whole time. So you should have no problem finding me.
whooo! thats great since i can only go on the sunday

i look forward to meeting you. you are awesome, and your art on green lantern rebirth was the best there was in a green lantern comic till then

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 05:22 PM

As long as he tapes Maddow's big mouth first, I'd be fine.:tongue:

And since he's such an awful conservative, I assume he's refused to draw Kyle Rayner and draws John Stewart like Clarence Thomas.

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 05:24 PM

As long as he tapes Maddow's big mouth first, I'd be fine.:tongue:

And since he's such an awful conservative, I assume he's refused to draw Kyle Rayner and draws John Stewart like Clarence Thomas.

Clarence Thomas has drawn John Stewart? Was that in the limited series "CRY FOR supreme JUSTICE"?

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 05:31 PM

Clarence Thomas has drawn John Stewart? Was that in the limited series "CRY FOR supreme JUSTICE"?

No. He OBVIOUSLY makes all black characters from GL, to Black Lightning, to Vixen LOOK LIKE Thomas. It's an evil conservative plot.:tongue:

Village Idiot

08-10-2009, 05:34 PM

I'd like to lynch Keith Olbermann, does that count?

Isn't it against the law to threaten to harm a person?

Village Idiot

08-10-2009, 05:35 PM

Oh, she's next. Is she worshiped here?

Not just once, but twice?

Village Idiot

08-10-2009, 05:36 PM

As long as he tapes Maddow's big mouth first, I'd be fine.:tongue:

James, you should be better than this. Perhaps you just got caught up in the hysteria?

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Isn't it against the law to threaten to harm a person?

Sure! Which is why I'd like to make it legal to harm Olbermann. And then Maddow. I'd never break the law.

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 05:38 PM

James, you should be better than this. Perhaps you just got caught up in the hysteria?

I'd never suggest acually harming her. But I personally don't care for media talking heads in general, and frankly, I really think it was uncool to hijack this thread and make it into "Fuck Ethan because he voted McCain" thread.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:38 PM

James, you should be better than this. Perhaps you just got caught up in the hysteria?

It was the Hope and Change I offered YABS.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:39 PM

I'd never suggest acually harming her. But I personally don't care for media talking heads in general, and frankly, I really think it was uncool to hijack this thread and make it into "Fuck Ethan because he voted McCain" thread.

I have a tshirt that says that, and I wear it to conventions. So far it hasn't worked.:frown:

Sabrinaset

08-10-2009, 05:39 PM

I defend Ethan and Conservatism here but do *I* get a shout out?

Meh! I'm sending the Blonde Lantern Corps out now! :mad:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:41 PM

I defend Ethan and Conservatism here but do *I* get a shout out?

Meh! I'm sending the Blonde Lantern Corps out now! :mad:

Sabrinaset, you certainly get a shout out! And lots of heart smiley icons that I don't know how to make here on CBR.

SUPERECWFAN1

08-10-2009, 05:41 PM

I defend Ethan and Conservatism here but do *I* get a shout out?

Meh! I'm sending the Blonde Lantern Corps out now! :mad:

BLONDE LANTERN CORPS : BLACKEST NIGHT !

What do you say Ethan ? It screams money. Just like the God Lantern Corps Idea I proposed. (hey its not like Johns should corner the market on all these Corps can he ?)

Village Idiot

08-10-2009, 05:42 PM

I'd never suggest acually harming her. But I personally don't care for media talking heads in general, and frankly, I really think it was uncool to hijack this thread and make it into "Fuck Ethan because he voted McCain" thread.

I pretty much don't care how a person votes. But this constant hatred being fostered by the right is coming very close to being constant urging to violence.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:43 PM

I pretty much don't care how a person votes. But this constant hatred being fostered by the right is coming very close to being constant urging to violence.

And how's the left hand side of your brain? :eek:

gryhpon

08-10-2009, 05:43 PM

I defend Ethan and Conservatism here but do *I* get a shout out?

Meh! I'm sending the Blonde Lantern Corps out now! :mad:

you sure do get a shout out for defending conservativism from all the bleeding hearts

Village Idiot

08-10-2009, 05:43 PM

Sure! Which is why I'd like to make it legal to harm Olbermann. And then Maddow. I'd never break the law.

If you want to make it legal to harm people you dislike, what is to stop others from making it legal to harm those you like?

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:44 PM

BLONDE LANTERN CORPS : BLACKEST NIGHT !

What do you say Ethan ? It screams money. Just like the God Lantern Corps Idea I proposed. (hey its not like Johns should corner the market on all these Corps can he ?)

Geoff owns the Lantern Corps! Can't we do a Blonde Flash?

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:45 PM

If you want to make it legal to harm people you dislike, what is to stop others from making it legal to harm those you like?

The Blue Dogs at the moment. :tongue:

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 05:45 PM

Come to think of it, Ethan drew a very funny scene in GL: Rebirth where John uses his ring to make some sort of metal plate over Guy Gardener's mouth. I think everyone, left or right wing could all use one of those every once in awhile.

Silence is golden after all...so

Village Idiot

08-10-2009, 05:47 PM

The Blue Dogs at the moment. :tongue:

Now you're trying to turn this into a flame war. Good tactic.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:47 PM

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:48 PM

Now you're trying to turn this into a flame war. Good tactic.

No, Village, I'm humoring you and this thread. Can't you just wink and move on? I don't hate you or anyone, so why must you get so hostile? Just relax.

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 05:50 PM

I do agree. Except when it comes to me and my family and friends.

...And of course, everyone who thinks like you.:tongue:

Sabrinaset

08-10-2009, 05:52 PM

Sabrinaset, you certainly get a shout out! And lots of heart smiley icons that I don't know how to make here on CBR.

Yaaaay!

I pretty much don't care how a person votes. But this constant hatred being fostered by the right is coming very close to being constant urging to violence.

Uhm, I dunno if you've noticed, but on this very thread where all Gail wanted to do was talk about how great Ethan was, all the hate has been coming from the left side of the board?

Geoff owns the Lantern Corps! Can't we do a Blonde Flash?

Uhm ... I guess!

Village Idiot

08-10-2009, 05:52 PM

No, Village, I'm humoring you and this thread. Can't you just wink and move on? I don't hate you or anyone, so why must you get so hostile? Just relax.

I'm not hostile in the least. Just disappointed that a professional would act all troll-like.

SUPERECWFAN1

08-10-2009, 05:53 PM

Geoff owns the Lantern Corps! Can't we do a Blonde Flash?

Ohh yeah ! We have to hurry before he moves in on that. I'd propose Yellow Hulk. But Jeph Loeb's always got that Hulk deal locked up.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:55 PM

I'm not hostile in the least. Just disappointed that a professional would act all troll-like.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong then, Village? But do you agree that in fairness, a 9 page thread where my politics are attacked and I am called names might entitle me to come in and say "Lynch Olbermann" in jest if I want to, or is that beneath the dignity of a guy who draws men in red spandex for a living?

Let's get on the same page.

gryhpon

08-10-2009, 05:56 PM

would you ever consider working for marvel again? your art would be perfect on warlock and thanos

Sabrinaset

08-10-2009, 05:56 PM

Ohh yeah ! We have to hurry before he moves in on that. I'd propose Yellow Hulk. But Jeph Loeb's always got that Hulk deal locked up.

Er ... okay, I'll draw one up now!

Think I should PM him the actual BLC pic I did? :confused:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:56 PM

Ohh yeah ! We have to hurry before he moves in on that. I'd propose Yellow Hulk. But Jeph Loeb's always got that Hulk deal locked up.

Oh, I love the Hulk. That'd be my number one choice at Marvel...

gryhpon

08-10-2009, 05:57 PM

Er ... okay, I'll draw one up now!

Think I should PM him the actual BLC pic I did? :confused:

how about the blonde marvel family?

DubipR

08-10-2009, 05:58 PM

How can I not love Ethan Van Sciver?

Well, I don't know the man personally or his politics but I wish him the best of luck in all of his projects. While I find his work too flat and lacking anima in his pages, in the same vein as Mike McKone, as long as he has people clamoring for his work he's keeping the industry going and I give him much credit for contributing to a genre I love to read.

Mr. EVS...once again I wish you best of luck in all of your projects. Keep making the kiddies happy and propelling the industry forward.

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 05:58 PM

Oh, I love the Hulk. That'd be my number one choice at Marvel...

What about something X-Men related? To be honest, Greg Land's art has killed the book for me.

Except for when he drew Emma Frost in BDSM gear. I was okay with that.:wink:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:58 PM

would you ever consider working for marvel again? your art would be perfect on warlock and thanos

I would never consider working anywhere but DC while I'm under contract, however, when that expires, it's anyone's ballgame! ;)

But I'm perfectly happy where I am.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 05:59 PM

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 06:01 PM

What about something X-Men related? To be honest, Greg Land's art has killed the book for me.

Except for when he drew Emma Frost in BDSM gear. I was okay with that.:wink:

Greg's stuff is really cool. I did X-Men a few years ago, though. I think I want to draw monsters tearing things up next.

Free-Man

08-10-2009, 06:02 PM

Greg's stuff is really cool. I did X-Men a few years ago, though. I think I want to draw monsters tearing things up next.

How about Green Lantern vs....the Wolfman? Frankenstein? the monster from Cloverfield?:biggrin:

Sabrinaset

08-10-2009, 06:27 PM

Geoff owns the Lantern Corps! Can't we do a Blonde Flash?

You mean something like this? :redface:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Bree%20as%20Bree/BreeFlash.jpg

rick

08-10-2009, 06:38 PM

EDIT

I am trying to teach myself good manners in my old age.

Bo Bo

08-10-2009, 06:41 PM

You mean something like this? :redface:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Bree%20as%20Bree/BreeFlash.jpg

Cool! Although those boots look dangerous if you'd run over someone with them! :eek: :biggrin:

Major Comma

08-10-2009, 07:13 PM

I love your new costume Bree!

Major Comma

08-10-2009, 07:22 PM

Ethan,
Your Dream character/book that you have never done and your dream crossover project .
Good of you to come by and talk to us!

Cam63

08-10-2009, 07:27 PM

You mean something like this? :redface:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Bree%20as%20Bree/BreeFlash.jpg

That'd do, Doc... That'd do...

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 07:33 PM

I pretty much don't care how a person votes. But this constant hatred being fostered by the right is coming very close to being constant urging to violence.

The bad uppity conservatives again? There's a nice liberal, gay German boy who wants to invade the Vatican (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=281854). Maybe you can go play over there in his thread?

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 07:39 PM

That'd do, Doc... That'd do...

What happened to her breasts? God, that speed force is a bitch!

Sabrinaset

08-10-2009, 07:51 PM

What happened to her breasts?

(Looks in blouse) That's what I'D like to know! :frown:

Cam63

08-10-2009, 07:55 PM

What happened to her breasts? God, that speed force is a bitch!

They grow back after she's achieved light speed.

Cam63

08-10-2009, 07:55 PM

(Looks in blouse) That's what I'D like to know! :frown:

Um... Look in YOUR blouse, Bree.

Gail Simone

08-10-2009, 08:28 PM

EDIT

I am trying to teach myself good manners in my old age.

Just repeating the facts.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 08:29 PM

EDIT

I am trying to teach myself good manners in my old age.

Most people do become conservative as they get older. Good for you.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 08:30 PM

You mean something like this? :redface:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Bree%20as%20Bree/BreeFlash.jpg

Did you draw that? It's awesome!!!

Spackling Compound

08-10-2009, 08:30 PM

Most people do become conservative as they get older. Good for you.

And then the dementia falls in and they become like a tenured professor of ethnobiology at a Whole Foods sale in Ann Arbor.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-10-2009, 08:34 PM

Ethan,
Your Dream character/book that you have never done and your dream crossover project .
Good of you to come by and talk to us!

Thanks, Major! Gail made this nice thread for/about me, so I felt welcome to come by.

Dream character? Well, I've just checked FLASH off that list, so I've still got Wonder Woman and Plastic Man to go. My dream DC/Marvel crossover would be Hal Jordan and Jean Grey. There would be lots of sex involved, in space, with green and orange flames. It would be beautiful. :biggrin:

Verminous

08-10-2009, 09:08 PM

Ethan......When are you gonna finish up Flash:Rebirth so you can get back to writing your column on 'that other site'. I miss it. It was fuuuuuuuuuuunny.:biggrin:

rick

08-10-2009, 09:14 PM

Most people do become conservative as they get older. Good for you.

Don't push it.

lexid523

08-10-2009, 10:13 PM

Most people do become conservative as they get older. Good for you.

And then sometimes the ensuing generations go so far to the right that liberal college students have more in common politically with their grandparents than their parents.

And then there's Tom Lehrer, who's old and a little crazy now, but still liberal, and we love him <3

mgs

08-10-2009, 10:17 PM

Did you draw that? It's awesome!!!
that's only one, little example of her awesome art that she occasionally graces us with, you should see the other things she's drawn!!! :smile:

Mister Blisterfists

08-10-2009, 11:35 PM

I just wish Ethan would come to Pittsburgh. It's much closer than Columbus!

he said he wouldn't because Michael George was convicted of killing his wife. Which I understand.

but, that conviction was overturned!, C'mon Ethan, do it for the kiddies! :D (I really do understand your position, I think he did it too, but the law's the law).

stealthwise

08-10-2009, 11:43 PM

stealthwise

08-10-2009, 11:43 PM

How about Green Lantern vs....the Wolfman? Frankenstein? the monster from Cloverfield?:biggrin:

Ann Coulter? :smile:

Sabrinaset

08-10-2009, 11:45 PM

Ann Coulter? :smile:

...Coulter?

the4thpip

08-11-2009, 12:05 AM

I'd never suggest acually harming her. But I personally don't care for media talking heads in general, and frankly, I really think it was uncool to hijack this thread and make it into "Fuck Ethan because he voted McCain" thread.

McCarthy. It's actually "Fuck Ethan because he voted McCarthy's rotting Black Lantern corpse."

Actually, a Green Lantern book written by Denny O'Neill and drawn by Ethan van Sciver would probably break the internet in half.

the4thpip

08-11-2009, 12:07 AM

Greg's stuff is really cool. I did X-Men a few years ago, though. I think I want to draw monsters tearing things up next.

A comic about the anti-health-care protests at townhall meetings then?

Flamebird

08-11-2009, 01:17 AM

How Can You Not Love Ethan Van Sciver?

Seriously.

Well, he's married and his wife would snap me like a twig? :wink:

He's the ONLY person I know of that recorded the old "What's My Line?" on GSN; besides me..
So I have to like him.

Mister Blisterfists

08-11-2009, 02:41 AM

I'm not familiar with that case, but wouldn't that be like never going to California because of OJ, or Rodney King?

No.

When I say "Pittsburgh" I'm referring to the Pittsburgh Comicon.

which is owned and operated by Renee George, the wife of Michael George.

The guy who was convicted of killing his first wife, but then the conviction was overturned due to suspect evidence, and a proven bias on the part of the prosecutor. Not to mention the sensationalism generated by the fact that the case was turned into a Dateline special, so they pretty much NEEDED a conviction to sell the show.

Cam63

08-11-2009, 03:41 AM

Did you draw that? It's awesome!!!

What's more, she did it in between groping around in other peoples' chest cavities.

Cam63

08-11-2009, 03:42 AM

...Coulter?

Down girl !

Calybos

08-11-2009, 06:24 AM

Most people do become conservative as they get older.

That's true; eventually the dying brain cells outnumber the new ones.

.

KevinTBrown

08-11-2009, 06:56 AM

You mean something like this? :redface:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Bree%20as%20Bree/BreeFlash.jpg

I know many people have been wanting Bree to flash them.... Unfortunately, this is not what they were hoping for.

:wink:

KevinTBrown

08-11-2009, 06:59 AM

Most people do become conservative as they get older. Good for you.

Good thing I'm not like most people. :biggrin:

Politics aside, Ethan's a great guy with a wicked sense of humor.

rick

08-11-2009, 08:40 AM

Politics aside, [insert name here]'s a great guy with a wicked sense of humor.

This is sort of an odd statement to read when you figure that all politics aside, our old pal, Samurai was a great guy with a wicked sense of humor, and yet most people on this board were normally screaming for his blood.

I can't help but wonder what the difference is?

What is it exactly that makes one person who is a great guy with a wicked sense of humor spouting off a bunch of far Right gibberish more acceptable than some other great guy with a wicked sense of humor spouting off a bunch of far Right gibberish?

The world may never know.

Bentcorner

08-11-2009, 08:40 AM

No.

When I say "Pittsburgh" I'm referring to the Pittsburgh Comicon.

which is owned and operated by Renee George, the wife of Michael George.

The guy who was convicted of killing his first wife, but then the conviction was overturned due to suspect evidence, and a proven bias on the part of the prosecutor. Not to mention the sensationalism generated by the fact that the case was turned into a Dateline special, so they pretty much NEEDED a conviction to sell the show.

Actually, Michael George still co-owns the Pittsburgh Comicon with Renee.

And the conviction was not overturned. It was set aside. It wasn't set aside because of suspect evidence or a bias on the part of the prosecutor, it was set aside because of prosecutorial misconduct. If bias was grounds to have a verdict set aside, all defendants would get new trials. Both the prosecutor and the defense lawyer go into the trial with a bias, as they should. That's just the way it works.

And really, the Dateline episode had nothing to do with the verdict.

rick

08-11-2009, 08:44 AM

Actually, Michael George still co-owns the Pittsburgh Comicon with Renee.

And the conviction was not overturned. It was set aside. It wasn't set aside because of suspect evidence or a bias on the part of the prosecutor, it was set aside because of prosecutorial misconduct. If bias was grounds to have a verdict set aside, all defendants would get new trials. Both the prosecutor and the defense lawyer go into the trial with a bias, as they should. That's just the way it works.

And really, the Dateline episode had nothing to do with the verdict.

So Mike, did you kill her?

KevinTBrown

08-11-2009, 08:50 AM

This is sort of an odd statement to read when you figure that all politics aside, our old pal, Samurai was a great guy with a wicked sense of humor, and yet most people on this board were normally screaming for his blood.

I can't help but wonder what the difference is?

What is it exactly that makes one person who is a great guy with a wicked sense of humor spouting off a bunch of far Right gibberish more acceptable than some other great guy with a wicked sense of humor spouting off a bunch of far Right gibberish?

The world may never know.

The difference is, Ethan is respectful enough to shut it off when needed. Samurai couldn't or wouldn't. Samurai would have totally derailed this thread with his conservatism; Ethan has not.

There's a reason why one was banned and the other has not been. And it has nothing to do with fame or being a "name".

And, Rick, you're the one who's not letting it go right now. If you don't like the guy, you don't like him. That's fine. I like Ethan despite his politics. Just like I like Chuck Dixon. Just like I like Toby Keith's music. There's more to a person than just one thing. With Samurai, I never saw anything but his political leanings in any thread he posted in.

Spackling Compound

08-11-2009, 08:54 AM

The difference is, Ethan is respectful enough to shut it off when needed. Samurai couldn't or wouldn't. Samurai would have totally derailed this thread with his conservatism; Ethan has not.

There's a reason why one was banned and the other has not been. And it has nothing to do with fame or being a "name".

And, Rick, you're the one who's not letting it go right now. If you don't like the guy, you don't like him. That's fine. I like Ethan despite his politics. Just like I like Chuck Dixon. Just like I like Toby Keith's music. There's more to a person than just one thing. With Samurai, I never saw anything but his political leanings in any thread he posted in.

Samurai used specious quotes and cited dubious sources. He also didn't tell the truth. If he just said, "In my opinion" more than quoting some crazy source, it may have worked out better.

But, other than politics, Sam can draw well.

Also, Sam, an atheist which can be a liberal bono fides, was not for gay marriage. EVS is for gay marriage. So there's one major selling point on YABS.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 08:55 AM

This is sort of an odd statement to read when you figure that all politics aside, our old pal, Samurai was a great guy with a wicked sense of humor, and yet most people on this board were normally screaming for his blood.

I can't help but wonder what the difference is?

What is it exactly that makes one person who is a great guy with a wicked sense of humor spouting off a bunch of far Right gibberish more acceptable than some other great guy with a wicked sense of humor spouting off a bunch of far Right gibberish?

The world may never know.

rick, it's because I don't argue with crazy. When I see phrases like "Screaming for his blood" and "far Right gibberish" to describe someone's political views and then your (not everyone else's, but your) reaction to them, I know that person isn't sane or safe to speak rationally with. I appreciate that you're trying out the concept of "manners" with old age, but let's work on some maturity too.

rick

08-11-2009, 09:10 AM

rick, it's because I don't argue with crazy. When I see phrases like "Screaming for his blood" and "far Right gibberish" to describe someone's political views and then your (not everyone else's, but your) reaction to them, I know that person isn't sane or safe to speak rationally with. I appreciate that you're trying out the concept of "manners" with old age, but let's work on some maturity too.

Not being a regular here, and this thread being about you, I can certainly understand why you might think this has anything to do with you.

But really, you aren't what has me bothered here.

I am just amazed that so many people on this thread who are busy praising you are the same people who would slam Sam for espousing the same exact views, especially considering that he would be much more polite about it.

And I can't help but wonder how these same people would react to you if you weren't the current fandom flavor of the month.

K-DoG7p7

08-11-2009, 09:22 AM

EVS two question!

Obama: Kenyan or American?
Health Care: yay or nay?

and lastly
will there be more Bart in Rebirth?

(yes I know..thats three)

KevinTBrown

08-11-2009, 09:22 AM

Here are your first 3 comments in this thread, Rick:

Back when Ethan was posting on YABS he would write things that would make Samurai seem reasonable.

I don't care how good an artist he is, and honestly he isn't that good to begin with, he is just plain suspect as a human being.

Gay Marriage is not the only issue on the planet, and a person can support gay rights and still be a total dick.

Sure he does.

From what I've seen of his views, his attitudes and how he plays with others, he's a complete dick.

And for the record I only mention it because Gail asked how someone could possibly not love the guy.

In my opinion, it's easy.

After saying those, I'm surprised you're still posting on here....

You should have done the following first:

EDIT

I am trying to teach myself good manners in my old age.

You may be trying to teach yourself, but the student ain't payin' attention.

By the way, this was Ethan's first response to you:

Most people do become conservative as they get older. Good for you.

He didn't slam or call you names or act like a dick, he poked fun at you. He pretty much "had the right" to call you out on some things and he didn't. Up till then, he just let it slide.

One of you's acting like a dick, that's for sure. I'll let you and others figure out who.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 09:25 AM

Not being a regular here, and this thread being about you, I can certainly understand why you might think this has anything to do with you.

But really, you aren't what has me bothered here.

I am just amazed that so many people on this thread who are busy praising you are the same people who would slam Sam for espousing the same exact views, especially considering that he would be much more polite about it.

And I can't help but wonder how these same people would react to you if you weren't the current fandom flavor of the month.

I think I've probably met most or some of the board members here, and no huge clash of ideologies occurred. We probably talked about comics we liked, I may have drawn a sketch for them or signed their books, and we moved on.

And I've been the Current Fandom Flavor of the Month for like 5 years now! ;)

Spackling Compound

08-11-2009, 09:26 AM

He didn't slam or call you names or act like a dick, he poked fun at you. He pretty much "had the right" to call you out on some things and he didn't. Up till then, he just let it slide.

One of you's acting like a dick, that's for sure. I'll let you and others figure out who.

Aha! You left a clue!!

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 09:30 AM

EVS two question!

Obama: Kenyan or American?
Health Care: yay or nay?

and lastly
will there be more Bart in Rebirth?

(yes I know..thats three)

Obama is an American. Born in Hawaii. Every conservative publication I subscribe to has written long articles debunking this "foreign birth" thing, and yet it persists from the Left.

Universal Health Care, nay. Sorry. At least, not right now.

Tons of Bart in Rebirth. He's one of my favorite Flashes.

Typo Lad

08-11-2009, 09:31 AM

I'm not supposed to love Mr. Van Sciver, because some guy (who googles his name, so I won't mention it) told me Mr. Van Sciver did a Bad Thing when he was at Harris.

Of course, that same guy was a lying, cheating nutbag, so that's actually in Mr. Van Sciver's favor.

Beyond that, I'm sure he's a lovely person, but I don't know him, so I can't say I love him or not.

Although I will say his art isn't my cuppa. Too overly rendered.

Aspield

08-11-2009, 09:38 AM

= I like Ethan despite his politics. Just like I like Chuck Dixon. ... There's more to a person than just one thing.

I have to agree with you.

My dad is incredibly conservative (nutjob right wing) and I still love him. Do I get into his car when it's adorned with pro-Prop 8 stuff? No. I take a cab.

In the case of the comics creators, I don't even judge them based on how they act at SD CCI (because they're being mobbed and I don't know too many people who would be 'normal' in that situation). And still, Ethan is a delight on panels and even when signing things.

Ditto for Chuck Dixon.

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 11:26 AM

Most people do become conservative as they get older. Good for you.

IIRC, that's been debunked; people tend to keep the same views as they age. Society, however, changes, and that may or may not result in a personal 'shift' right that's actually really just the mainstream trending leftward of where one was originally.

Equating conservatism with manners makes me go :|, though, that's hardly less bigoted a statement than some of the nastiness earlier directed at you.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:34 AM

IIRC, that's been debunked; people tend to keep the same views as they age. Society, however, changes, and that may or may not result in a 'shift' right that's actually really just the mainstream trending leftward of where one was originally.

Equating conservatism with manners makes me go :|, though, that's hardly less bigoted a statement than some of the nastiness earlier directed at you.

I love the conservatives I know. They do not rise to the level or vitriol and outright abuse that they receive, and it's not because they don't despise the left. We do. It's just not worth arguing with individuals anymore, and it's certainly not worth being an asshole over. I recognize religious fervor when I see it, on both sides, and then, you've got to walk away. And at some point, we shrugged and said, "Want Leftism? You've got it." And here, you've got it. Smoke the whole carton. And America is beginning to reject it all over again.

As for growing into conservatism, I knew ZERO conservatives in high school. Everyone is reflexively liberal, until they become adults, at which point, a lot of us see through it and trend rightwards.

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 11:38 AM

I love the conservatives I know. They do not rise to the level or vitriol and outright abuse that they receive, I've met a lot who do. And I've met a lot of kind, courteous liberals, and kind, courteous conservatives.
and it's not because they don't despise the left. We do. Well, since you've put it out there.
As for growing into conservatism, I knew ZERO conservatives in high school. Everyone is reflexively liberal, until they become adults, at which point, a lot of us see through it and trend rightwards.
o.O That's not true in my experience, and that's not actually true in general. There are a lot of conservative kids and teens out there (and a lot of them are online). Heck, I was a conservative kid.

I guess I have to go with you deserving the criticism heaped on you, given the things you've said in this topic alone. I wanted to change my mind. :/ Bummer.

KevinTBrown

08-11-2009, 11:38 AM

I love the conservatives I know. They do not rise to the level or vitriol and outright abuse that they receive, and it's not because they don't despise the left. We do. It's just not worth arguing with individuals anymore, and it's certainly not worth being an asshole over. I recognize religious fervor when I see it, on both sides, and then, you've got to walk away. And at some point, we shrugged and said, "Want Leftism? You've got it." And here, you've got it. Smoke the whole carton. And America is beginning to reject it all over again.

As for growing into conservatism, I knew ZERO conservatives in high school. Everyone is reflexively liberal, until they become adults, at which point, a lot of us see through it and trend rightwards.

And I was the opposite.... Grew up conservative, then I learned to think for myself. :wink:

Shade

08-11-2009, 11:40 AM

As for growing into conservatism, I knew ZERO conservatives in high school. Everyone is reflexively liberal, until they become adults, at which point, a lot of us see through it and trend rightwards.

That's weird, because my experience is the exact opposite. Most of the folks I went to high school had opinions shaped by their parents which leaned more conservative, and it wasn't til they got older and on their own that they moved to a more liberal position. Maybe it's influenced by age or geography. It would be an interesting study to track.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:40 AM

I've met a lot who do. And I've met a lot of kind, courteous liberals, and kind, courteous conservatives.
Well, since you've put it out there.

o.O That's not true in my experience, and that's not actually true in general. There are a lot of conservative kids and teens out there (and a lot of them are online). Heck, I was a conservative kid.

You're probably right, Smooth. I do know quite a few very kind liberals, Gail among them, although even she can't resist bringing up politics whenever we speak. It's the last thing that occurs to me when I speak to anyone. With Gail, I automatically think about Wonder Woman and her cool husband.

And I grew up in NJ, where I suppose everyone starts out liberal and works their way rightwards. I guess if you grow up in Mississippi or Alabama, the only way to go is left. :smile:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:41 AM

And I was the opposite.... Grew up conservative, then I learned to think for myself. :wink:

Where did you grow up, Kevin? Were you raised religiously?

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 11:42 AM

And I grew up in NJ, where I suppose everyone starts out liberal and works their way rightwards. I guess if you grow up in Mississippi or Alabama, the only way to go is left. :smile:Part of it is definitely geography.

the4thpip

08-11-2009, 11:44 AM

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:44 AM

I guess I have to go with you deserving the criticism heaped on you, given the things you've said in this topic alone. I wanted to change my mind. :/ Bummer.

What did I say that was so awful? :confused:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:44 AM

So you also think that Orly Taits is really Sacha Baron Cohen? :confused:

I don't know who that is, the4th, but even Ann Coulter came out swinging about this topic this week:

www.anncoulter.com

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 11:45 AM

Go back over your own words, dude. o.o

KevinTBrown

08-11-2009, 11:46 AM

Where did you grow up, Kevin? Were you raised religiously?

Midwest, Chicago area from age 6 on. And yes, for the most part until I was 12.

I should point out, I voted for Reagan in his second term (if I had been able to, I would have voted for him for his first term as well) and the first Bush. I would have voted for Bush for a second term if he had dropped Quayle. Quayle is the only reason I voted Democrat in '92. That was the year I also started reading a lot more about politics and paying closer attention, not just taking things at face value.

Typo Lad

08-11-2009, 11:48 AM

Weird, because I live in NJ, and most of the people I know are conservative.

Hey, could it be that anecdotal evidence is not really representative?

Gosh, I think it could be!

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:49 AM

Go back over your own words, dude. o.o

I just did. Which part particularly stung you? I get to read, if I choose to peruse these boards, that my objections to Barack Obama's policies are rooted in my hatred of black people. That earns my contempt. But I'll still be polite....:rolleyes:

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:51 AM

Weird, because I live in NJ, and most of the people I know are conservative.

Hey, could it be that anecdotal evidence is not really representative?

Gosh, I think it could be!

Typo, where in NJ do you live where everyone you know is Conservative? Are you confused, and are actually in Amish PA somewhere?

Are there buttons?

Free-Man

08-11-2009, 11:51 AM

I just did. Which part particularly stung you? I get to read, if I choose to peruse these boards, that my objections to Barack Obama's policies are rooted in my hatred of black people. That earns my contempt. But I'll still be polite....:rolleyes:

The joking lynching remarks (which in fact started) seem to have irked some.

Typo Lad

08-11-2009, 11:53 AM

Typo, where in NJ do you live where everyone you know is Conservative? Are you confused, and are actually in Amish PA somewhere?

Are there buttons?
Okay, that was funny.

Little town called Teaneck.

Also, in all seriousness, it really depends on how one defines "conservative". There's a reason I dislike labels, and that's because they tend to not fit properly. I mean, can one be conservative and pro gay marriage? Conservative and an athiest? Conservative and religious?

It's a fluid term.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:53 AM

Midwest, Chicago area from age 6 on. And yes, for the most part until I was 12.

I should point out, I voted for Reagan in his second term (if I had been able to, I would have voted for him for his first term as well) and the first Bush. I would have voted for Bush for a second term if he had dropped Quayle. Quayle is the only reason I voted Democrat in '92. That was the year I also started reading a lot more about politics and paying closer attention, not just taking things at face value.

I believe that about you, Kevin...I can see Dan Quayle being the reason you changed political affiliation. :tongue:

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 11:55 AM

Statements equating conservatism with manners, despising the left, and so on, didn't sting so much as disappoint me.

That's actually generally how I feel when folks, say, talk about how gays shouldn't have marriage, poor americans shouldn't have access to healthcare, and how (insert flavor of) christianity should be the default religion and part of government policy--

Really disappointed and saddened. Especially when folks who say that they're inspired by God say, 'we despise the Left'; well, iirc, aren't you Christian? Most conservatives are. Jesus said to love your enemies, even when, especially when, they oppose you, because it's a true test of faith to love someone whom you want to despise, whilst it's easy to love those whom you agree with.

Spackling Compound

08-11-2009, 11:56 AM

You're probably right, Smooth. I do know quite a few very kind liberals, Gail among them, although even she can't resist bringing up politics whenever we speak. It's the last thing that occurs to me when I speak to anyone. With Gail, I automatically think about Wonder Woman and her cool husband.

And I grew up in NJ, where I suppose everyone starts out liberal and works their way rightwards. I guess if you grow up in Mississippi or Alabama, the only way to go is left. :smile:

HEY! I'm in Mississippi. And grew more conservative as my parents stopped helping me along. Oh, and don't worry about defending your comments. There are BAN-traps about!

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 11:57 AM

Okay, that was funny.

Little town called Teaneck.

Also, in all seriousness, it really depends on how one defines "conservative". There's a reason I dislike labels, and that's because they tend to not fit properly. I mean, can one be conservative and pro gay marriage? Conservative and an athiest? Conservative and religious?

It's a fluid term.

I'm conservative and pro-gay marriage. Or at least, accepting of gay marriage. And atheist. I still despise the debilitating effects of big government and the snobbery of the left.

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 11:59 AM

I'm conservative and pro-gay marriage. Or at least, accepting of gay marriage. And atheist. It would be nice to see more goldwater conservatives take back the Republican party.
I still despise the debilitating effects of big government and the snobbery of the left.
No party has a lock on snobbery, imo.

Re: big government; it's not automatically debilitating to have things like national healthcare and some regulations on the economy.

K-DoG7p7

08-11-2009, 11:59 AM

There's a reason I dislike labels,

hmm... wait.. thats what bisexuals usually say!

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 12:00 PM

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 12:01 PM

"The Left" is perfectly acceptable to despise, Reverend, as it is evil. You aren't. You're just a person. Your philosophy, or much of it, is problematic.

Not all Conservatives are Christian. Still, I do love you.
'The left' is made up of just people.

Bentcorner

08-11-2009, 12:02 PM

and it's not because they don't despise the left. We do. It's just not worth arguing with individuals anymore, and it's certainly not worth being an asshole over.

You hate people on the left?

I don't get that. I'm a Democrat and I tend to lean towards the left on most issues, but I don't "hate" the right. I just disagree with them on most issues. You can disagree without hating.

the4thpip

08-11-2009, 12:03 PM

Although I will say his art isn't my cuppa. Too overly rendered.

I am telling you: If only Vinnie Coletta were alive!

the4thpip

08-11-2009, 12:05 PM

I don't know who that is, the4th, but even Ann Coulter came out swinging about this topic this week:

www.anncoulter.com

We know, we talked about that.

But if you don't know who the main spokesperson for the Birthers is, than you are really not qualified to make any statement about who keeps the story alive.

Nor is Lou Dobbs a left winger, I believe.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 12:05 PM

'The left' is made up of just people.

The Left is a malignant, deceptive philosophy that a lot of people, in times of trouble, worry and weakness, subscribe to. The people aren't to blame.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 12:07 PM

You hate people on the left?

I don't get that. I'm a Democrat and I tend to lean towards the left on most issues, but I don't "hate" the right. I just disagree with them on most issues. You can disagree without hating.

No, keep reading.

Typo Lad

08-11-2009, 12:07 PM

I'm conservative and pro-gay marriage. Or at least, accepting of gay marriage. And atheist. I still despise the debilitating effects of big government and the snobbery of the left.

Yet according to some conservatives, you can't be a conservative and be an atheist. Or be a conservative and be pro gay marriage. Just like some say you can't be "liberal" and religious.

As for big government, that's another big term. What does that even mean?

And I don't think anyone holds a monopoly on snobbery.

hmm... wait.. thats what bisexuals usually say!

I'm comfortable enough in what I do in my bedroom to not need a label for it.

"The Left" is perfectly acceptable to despise, Reverend, as it is evil.

Oh please, drama much?

What is 'The Left"? Care to define this ideological bogeyman.

You aren't. You're just a person. Your philosophy, or much of it, is problematic.

I thought it was evil?

Not all Conservatives are Christian. Still, I do love you.

And not all Christians (or Jews) are conservatives.

And as you show, not all conservatives, liberals, centrists, or whatever silly label we want to use, marches in lockstep with the rest of the people who say they have those views.

Typo Lad

08-11-2009, 12:09 PM

The Left is a malignant, deceptive philosophy that a lot of people, in times of trouble, worry and weakness, subscribe to. The people aren't to blame.

Care to define this philosophy with more than just boogyman speak? It seems a pretty vague thing.

I mean, you're okay with Gay Marriage, and that's supposed to be a "Leftist" thingum. It's even "big government" to some. Yet you're cool with it.

Hey, scary thought... maybe you're really a Centrist!

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 12:09 PM

We know, we talked about that.

But if you don't know who the main spokesperson for the Birthers is, than you are really not qualified to make any statement about who keeps the story alive.

Nor is Lou Dobbs a left winger, I believe.

The fact that I don't know or care doesn't disqualify me from pointing out that it isn't worth proliferating far and wide on the media as though it were a common and accepted Right Wing belief system, when most of us realize it's shit. So if most of us, including me, (and right wing "spokespeople" like Rush and Coulter) are saying that it's shit, then why does it continue to be a topic of conversation?

Reverend Smooth

08-11-2009, 12:10 PM

The Left is a malignant, deceptive philosophy that a lot of people, in times of trouble, worry and weakness, subscribe to. The people aren't to blame.
Yeah. Definitely :| worthy.

Bentcorner

08-11-2009, 12:11 PM

The Left is a malignant, deceptive philosophy that a lot of people, in times of trouble, worry and weakness, subscribe to. The people aren't to blame.

That would be just as ignorant if "The Left" was replaced with "The Right".

K-DoG7p7

08-11-2009, 12:11 PM

The Left is a malignant, deceptive philosophy that a lot of people, in times of trouble, worry and weakness, subscribe to. The people aren't to blame.

the "american" left is extremely far away from Communisms you know..

hell the "american democrats" are right wingers in europe (well central-right :P )

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 12:11 PM

Yeah. Definitely :| worthy.

And yet, I was so sure you'd embrace that post. :I

Adam C

08-11-2009, 12:11 PM

Obama is an American. Born in Hawaii. Every conservative publication I subscribe to has written long articles debunking this "foreign birth" thing, and yet it persists from the Left.

That is a lie. The major proponents of the birther conspiracy are for the most part of the political right. They include right-wing fringe publication World Net Daily and the constitution party. One of the earliest proponents of the conspiracy theory is Jerome Corsi is a member of the Constitution Party and advanced the point on Fox News back in 15 August 2008 (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) Other prominent Birthers include Alan Keyes a former Republican turned Constitutionalist who was a diplomat under the Reagan administration, tax protester Robert Schulz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Schulz), and Stefan F. Cook, the soldier who filed as a conscientious objector because he did not believe Obama to be a citizen, who also posts on Free Republic. Orly Taitz doesn't really have a much of a political record outside of the birther nonsense she prominently identifies Alan Keyes (http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/) as one of her clients on her website, and links to sites (http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/links.htm) include "The Conservative Underground" and "Evil Conservative Radio."

About the only connections the birther conspiracy has to "the left" are isolate crackpots like Andy Martin and Phillip J. Berg. And while the Birther conspiracy is from the fringe of the American political right, it's gotten more attention than it merits, with Fox giving time to Jerome Corsi and Hannity covering Cook's antics while at least a number of Republican legislators have condescended to acknowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Legis lative_initiatives_and_responses) this nonsense by proposing legislation catering to Birther requests. And its Republican politicians that largely have to deal with Birthers showing up at public political gatherings. So I don't know by what standard you claim that the birther conspiracy is originating from the left.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 12:12 PM

That would be just as ignorant if "The Left" was replaced with "The Right".

Oh, but it is, and often. Right here.

Typo Lad

08-11-2009, 12:13 PM

The fact that I don't know or care doesn't disqualify me from pointing out that it isn't worth proliferating far and wide on the media as though it were a common and accepted Right Wing belief system, when most of us realize it's shit. So if most of us, including me, (and right wing "spokespeople" like Rush and Coulter) are saying that it's shit, then why does it continue to be a topic of conversation?

Actually, it should be a topic of conversation, only for as long as it takes to point and laugh.

But Fox, CNN, and MSNBC continue to feel the need to fill a 24-hour News Cycle with anything shiny, and glom onto silly, inane things like this. G-d forbid we discuss real issues. People might be bored, y'know.

These people are as "legitimately" conservative as some of the nuts that I'm sure you consider "the left". Because when you're looking at a large mass of people, the first thing you notice is the fringe.

Because people, that's why.

Ethan Van Sciver

08-11-2009, 12:14 PM

That is a lie. The major proponents of the birther conspiracy are for the most part of the political right. They include right-wing fringe publication World Net Daily and the constitution party. One of the earliest proponents of the conspiracy theory is Jerome Corsi is a member of the Constitution Party and advanced the point on Fox News back in 15 August 2008 (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) Other prominent Birthers include Alan Keyes a former Republican turned Constitutionalist who was a diplomat under the Reagan administration, tax protester Robert Schulz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Schulz), and Stefan F. Cook, the soldier who filed as a conscientious objector because he did not believe Obama to be a citizen, who also posts on Free Republic. Orly Taitz doesn't really have a much of a political record outside of the birther nonsense she prominently identifies Alan Keyes (http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/) as one of her clients on her website, and links to sites (http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/links.htm) include "The Conservative Underground" and "Evil Conservative Radio."

About the only connections the birther conspiracy has to "the left" are isolate crackpots like Andy Martin and Phillip J. Berg. And while the Birther conspiracy is from the fringe of the American political right, it's gotten more attention than it merits, with Fox giving time to Jerome Corsi and Hannity covering Cook's antics while at least a number of Republican legislators have condescended to acknowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Legis lative_initiatives_and_responses) this nonsense by proposing legislation catering to Birther requests. And its Republican politicians that largely have to deal with Birthers showing up at public political gatherings. So I don't know by what standard you claim that the birther conspiracy is originating from the left.

Okay, it was all a lie. I read no conservative publications that decry and denounce the birther phenom, and I didn't just post an Ann Coulter column about it, AND it wasn't just brought up by a left winger again here on this thread. Or again, just now, by you.