How Can You Not Love Ethan Van Sciver?

[Adam C]

The Left is a malignant, deceptive philosophy that a lot of people, in times of trouble, worry and weakness, subscribe to. The people aren't to blame.

What Typo said. You're definition of "The Left" is so vague as to be meaningless, and based on American politics it could include anything from social liberalism to social democracy, Green decentralism, to Communism/Marxist-Leninism, to various strains of anarcho-socialism.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Actually, it should be a topic of conversation, only for as long as it takes to point and laugh.

But Fox, CNN, and MSNBC continue to feel the need to fill a 24-hour News Cycle with anything shiny, and glom onto silly, inane things like this. G-d forbid we discuss real issues. People might be bored, y'know.

These people are as "legitimately" conservative as some of the nuts that I'm sure you consider "the left". Because when you're looking at a large mass of people, the first thing you notice is the fringe.

Because people, that's why.

Very well and good. Don't connect them with me in any possible way, and there's no problem. I love the fringers too for entertainment.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

What Typo said. You're definition of "The Left" is so vague as to be meaningless, and based on American politics it could include anything from social liberalism to social democracy, Green decentralism, to Communism/Marxist-Leninism, to various strains of anarcho-socialism.

Dear god. lol.

[Typo Lad]

I don't agree that it's a "lie" (Adam, this isn't Samurai), but it's certainly a mis-statement. Just as Adam neglects to mention, or is unaware, that stations other than Fox are giving these nutters airtime.

However, Mr. Van Sciver, to attribute the nonsense to the Left is not reflective of the actual reality. You state yourself that you're not following the situation. Maybe you shouldn't make such authoritive statements then?

No-one is saying the "Right" has a monopoly on loons.

Also, respectfully, I'm still waiting on a definition of what "The Left" means. Or "Conservative".

[KevinTBrown]

You hate people on the left?

I don't get that. I'm a Democrat and I tend to lean towards the left on most issues, but I don't "hate" the right. I just disagree with them on most issues. You can disagree without hating.

Yes he does hate those people on the left.

Man, he hates them so much he even buys them a beer and draws little silly caricatures on napkins.

Wotta hater than Van Sciver is.

:rolleyes:



Puh-lease.

I disagree with the politics. BUT Ethan is a stand-up guy. He just ain't perfect. :wink:

[the4thpip]

'The left' is made up of just people.

So is Soylent Green™! :eek:

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Care to define this philosophy with more than just boogyman speak? It seems a pretty vague thing.

I mean, you're okay with Gay Marriage, and that's supposed to be a "Leftist" thingum. It's even "big government" to some. Yet you're cool with it.

Hey, scary thought... maybe you're really a Centrist!

I absolutely AM a Centrist. So what does that make YOU? ;)

I'm okay with Gay Marriage because I think it'll solve a lot of societal problems, and because there's no good reason to say no to it. If it happens, fine, if it doesn't, I don't care. It really isn't any of my business.

[Typo Lad]

Very well and good. Don't connect them with me in any possible way, and there's no problem. I love the fringers too for entertainment.

Except... are we? Did anyone call you a birther? I only joined this thread to make a crack about that past situation (which I'm sure you don't even remember, although I bet you'd remember the third party's name).

Birthers were brought up as something silly that some people on "The Right" do. If you feel you were accused of it, just say "Please don't lump me in with them". it's easy. I have to do it all the time when people mistake my views for certain groups (I am not, nor have I ever been a member of Naturai Karta. Also, I do not know where you can get some discount organs).

And the problem with using nutters as entertainment is the nutters don't get it.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I don't agree that it's a "lie" (Adam, this isn't Samurai), but it's certainly a mis-statement. Just as Adam neglects to mention, or is unaware, that stations other than Fox are giving these nutters airtime.

However, Mr. Van Sciver, to attribute the nonsense to the Left is not reflective of the actual reality. You state yourself that you're not following the situation. Maybe you shouldn't make such authoritive statements then?

No-one is saying the "Right" has a monopoly on loons.

Also, respectfully, I'm still waiting on a definition of what "The Left" means. Or "Conservative".

Let me clarify, then: I personally have not, despite my subscriptions to publications like National Review, ever seen an argument FOR the birthers. I just haven't. I saw it in the National Enquirer before the election and had a laugh, but that's it. So if I, a person willing to receive and consider, all conservative viewpoints, have not seen this, and yet, still know about it from MSNBC, I can't accept that it's a widely held conservative belief.

It's a few wing nuts. So have at 'em.

[Spackling Compound]

The fact that I don't know or care doesn't disqualify me from pointing out that it isn't worth proliferating far and wide on the media as though it were a common and accepted Right Wing belief system, when most of us realize it's shit. So if most of us, including me, (and right wing "spokespeople" like Rush and Coulter) are saying that it's shit, then why does it continue to be a topic of conversation?

It's important because you're supposed to ascribe to something really stupid.

Keep singing that you are pro-gay marriage and atheist, soon they'll leave you alone. They'll smell their scent on you. Throw in being ill without medication and abused as a child.

[Adam C]

Okay, it was all a lie. I read no conservative publications that decry and denounce the birther phenom, and I didn't just post an Ann Coulter column about it, AND it wasn't just brought up by a left winger again here on this thread. Or again, just now, by you.

Did you miss the part where I acknowledged that the citizenship conspiracies are a fringe movement? My point is that the claim "yet it persists from the left" is false as the Birthers are largely of the political right and to the extent they get any serious attention outside of dismissals its from members of the political right, hence my examples of Republican legislators.

[Typo Lad]

Throw in being ill without medication and abused as a child.

So what, you really, really enjoyed that ban a few weeks ago?

Get some class, Spack.

[Reverend Smooth]

That's a crack at several folks here, me included, yeah.

[Typo Lad]

Stupid double posts.

[the4thpip]

The fact that I don't know or care doesn't disqualify me from pointing out that it isn't worth proliferating far and wide on the media as though it were a common and accepted Right Wing belief system, when most of us realize it's shit. So if most of us, including me, (and right wing "spokespeople" like Rush and Coulter) are saying that it's shit, then why does it continue to be a topic of conversation?

How about Rep. Bill Posey [R-FL15] who introduced a Birthers-inspred nonsensical bill into the House of Representatives? How about his 10 Republican co-sponsors?

Cosponsors [as of 2009-07-29]
Rep. Marsha Blackburn [R-TN7]
Rep. Dan Burton [R-IN5]
Rep. John Campbell [R-CA48]
Rep. John Carter [R-TX31]
Rep. John Culberson [R-TX7]
Rep. Louis Gohmert [R-TX1]
Rep. Robert Goodlatte [R-VA6]
Rep. Kenny Marchant [R-TX24]
Rep. Randy Neugebauer [R-TX19]
Rep. Ted Poe [R-TX2]

How about conservative TV pundit Lou Dobbs? How about the Free Republic website? How about Alan Keyes?

Pinkos, all of them?

[Ethan Van Sciver]

It's important because you're supposed to ascribe to something really stupid.

Keep singing that you are pro-gay marriage and atheist, soon they'll leave you alone. They'll smell their scent on you. Throw in being ill without medication and abused as a child.

What does this mean?

[Typo Lad]

Let me clarify, then: I personally have not, despite my subscriptions to publications like National Review, ever seen an argument FOR the birthers. I just haven't. I saw it in the National Enquirer before the election and had a laugh, but that's it. So if I, a person willing to receive and consider, all conservative viewpoints, have not seen this, and yet, still know about it from MSNBC, I can't accept that it's a widely held conservative belief.

I don't see where people are saying it's "widely held". However, it has indeed been featured on several Fox News shows. CNN has also given it way more time than it deserves.


It's a few wing nuts. So have at 'em.

If we starve them of attention they'll go away.

[Spackling Compound]

So what, you really, really enjoyed that ban a few weeks ago?

Get some class, Spack.

This is class? To say something of insult against this man's artwork? This is the class you have to show?

And this comment? You are the mod? Fancy shmancy big mod now making the bigshot comments. Guard your tongue. That tongue should be silent, sir in case it should make the very ear of G-d tender it would!

Abused as a child: biggest 'Back off of me" comment in conservative and liberal circles.
No meds and ill: second biggest

For shame the judgement.

[Typo Lad]

What does this mean?
That is Spack taking a rather meanspirited jab at mutliple posters, although I'm sure he thinks he's being amusing.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

How about Rep. Bill Posey [R-FL15] who introduced a Birthers-inspred nonsensical bill into the House of Representatives? How about his 10 Republican co-sponsors?

Cosponsors [as of 2009-07-29]
Rep. Marsha Blackburn [R-TN7]
Rep. Dan Burton [R-IN5]
Rep. John Campbell [R-CA48]
Rep. John Carter [R-TX31]
Rep. John Culberson [R-TX7]
Rep. Louis Gohmert [R-TX1]
Rep. Robert Goodlatte [R-VA6]
Rep. Kenny Marchant [R-TX24]
Rep. Randy Neugebauer [R-TX19]
Rep. Ted Poe [R-TX2]

How about conservative TV pundit Lou Dobbs? How about the Free Republic website? How about Alan Keyes?

Pinkos, all of them?

When?

And no, the Pinkos are the ones who won't let it drop. I'd like to make fun of everyone who believed Oliver Stone's JFK, which I'll bet included you. But I won't. It's irrelevant.

[Spackling Compound]

That is Spack taking a rather meanspirited jab at mutliple posters, although I'm sure he thinks he's being amusing.

Again the assumptions. Always the bigshot assumptions here.

For shame, sir.

[Spackling Compound]

When?

And no, the Pinkos are the ones who won't let it drop. I'd like to make fun of everyone who believed Oliver Stone's JFK, which I'll bet included you. But I won't. It's irrelevant.

And the "stole the election"....
"OJ is innocent".....

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I don't see where people are saying it's "widely held". However, it has indeed been featured on several Fox News shows. CNN has also given it way more time than it deserves.



If we starve them of attention they'll go away.

I suppose it was an idea worth investigating, and since it was investigated and lead nowhere, it should be over with now.

And good idea.

[Adam C]

Dear god. lol.

That's it? The fact that "The Left" contains a diverse number of political tendencies rather than being a monolithic bogeyman merits only a "Dear God. lol"?

Or if "The Left" is evil as you say, do you care to explain how Saskatchewan's former socialist premier Tommy Douglas left the province in better economic and financial shape when he took it over from the pro-business liberals in the 1940s, implementing social programs that largely benefitted the populace, and implemented the first written guarantee of political rights in Canada? Or was more thoroughly behind the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s?


I don't agree that it's a "lie" (Adam, this isn't Samurai), but it's certainly a mis-statement. Just as Adam neglects to mention, or is unaware, that stations other than Fox are giving these nutters airtime.


Unfortunately, I can't say that his reply to my point about "The Left" leaves with anymore confidence.

And what stations other than Fox are giving them airtime? I am unaware.

[Reverend Smooth]

MSNBC has given them airtime, along with FOX; I've seen stuff personally on those two networks.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

That's it? The fact that "The Left" contains a diverse number of political tendencies rather than being a monolithic bogeyman merits only a "Dear God. lol"?.

Yes, pointing out that one label encompasses many little labels, and therefore, has no meaning, only gets a "dear god lol" from me. Try it on someone else! :)

[the4thpip]

When?

And no, the Pinkos are the ones who won't let it drop. I'd like to make fun of everyone who believed Oliver Stone's JFK, which I'll bet included you. But I won't. It's irrelevant.

I GAVE YOU A LIST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WON'T LET IT DROP!

Google it, for chrissakes.

[Bentcorner]

Man, he hates them so much he even buys them a beer and draws little silly caricatures on napkins.

He said he despised "the left".

[Spackling Compound]

MSNBC has given them airtime, along with FOX; I've seen stuff personally on those two networks.

CNN as well.

[Typo Lad]

This is class? To say something of insult against this man's artwork? This is the class you have to show?

If Mr. Van Sciver found my response to the thread title insulting, that's a pity. I thought it was rather tame. I merely stated it wasn't my cuppa.

I've been following his career since he was at Harris. We used to run in the same circles (oh, for the days of COMICS-PRO).


And this comment? You are the mod? Fancy shmancy big mod now making the bigshot comments. Guard your tongue. That tongue should be silent, sir in case it should make the very ear of G-d tender it would!

I was making a friendly suggestion. I am not a Mod, thank G-d. The responding mockery is a bit obnoxious, especially with the whole faux Yiddish thing you're doing. It rather borders on racist.


Abused as a child: biggest 'Back off of me" comment in conservative and liberal circles.
No meds and ill: second biggest

Right. It has nothing to do with your repeat run-ins with a poster here. Nothing at all.


For shame the judgement.

Yes. Because that's the personality flaw we judge you for. Not the whole other thing.

You know Spack, I want to like you. I really do. I try to ignore your stated unwholesome predilection. But the fact is, you're being a bit of a jerk using this thread to snipe at someone, especially as it's indirectly. Have a problem with the person? Say it to his/her face.

I politely suggest you think before you post.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

MSNBC has given them airtime, along with FOX; I've seen stuff personally on those two networks.

Not to derail this thread, but I really love your art.

Back at it.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I GAVE YOU A LIST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WON'T LET IT DROP!

Google it, for chrissakes.

No, I won't bother, The4th. I'd rather just believe you and move on. lol. :smile:

[Reverend Smooth]

Not to derail this thread, but I really love your art.

Back at it.

Thank you! I do like your work, fwiw. I'm a fan of elaborate art.

[KevinTBrown]

Again the assumptions. Always the bigshot assumptions here.

For shame, sir.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

:rolleyes:

My my my.... irony at its finest.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

If Mr. Van Sciver found my response to the thread title insulting, that's a pity. I thought it was rather tame. I merely stated it wasn't my cuppa.

I've been following his career since he was at Harris. We used to run in the same circles (oh, for the days of COMICS-PRO).t.

I couldn't have cared less, Typo. Not an insult, I just have thick skin. What was Comics Pro?

[the4thpip]

No, I won't bother, The4th. I'd rather just believe you and move on. lol. :smile:

Good.

Also, the moon is made of cheese.

(while you are busy believing me, I might as well have some fun)

[Spackling Compound]

I politely suggest you think before you post.

And you as well, sir. From your keyboard to your ears, sir!

It's odd how you tend to ascribe that I'm having it in for a poster. I haven't even seen "the poster" I have had run ins on this board in a long while.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Thank you! I do like your work, fwiw. I'm a fan of elaborate art.

iw a lot to me, so thank you. Do you work in commercial art in some way?

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Good.

Also, the moon is made of cheese.

(while you are busy believing me, I might as well have some fun)

We'll never know for sure, because as you have been convinced, we never went to the moon, and Obama sure can't afford to send us there now!

[Spackling Compound]

We'll never know for sure, because as you have been convinced, we never went to the moon, and Obama sure can't afford to send us there now!

He hung the moon.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

He hung the moon.

I wonder if any of the Stimulus money could go towards make work jobs on the moon? Carving Barack's face in it? That would be lovely. :)

[Reverend Smooth]

iw a lot to me, so thank you. Do you work in commercial art in some way?
I'm a freelancer right now. I've done posters and prints and such, have done some work for RPGs, did 3D texture work freelance for DAZ 3D's models.

I'm working on an indie comic right now (ASP is publishing it I believe early next year, or late this one). I'd like to work more, but have had to pass on, and been passed over, in-house jobs (comic and otherwise) because I'm homebound with Lupus and can't make office meetings.

[Spackling Compound]

I wonder if any of the Stimulus money could go towards make work jobs on the moon? Carving Barack's face in it? That would be lovely. :)

Yeah, it's already carved there. To mark his birthplace. Ooops..I said too much.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

I'm a freelancer right now. I've done posters and prints and such, have done some work for RPGs, did 3D texture work freelance for DAZ 3D's models.

I'm working on an indie comic right now (ASP is publishing it I believe early next year, or late this one). I'd like to work more, but have had to pass on, and been passed over, in-house jobs (comic and otherwise) because I'm homebound with Lupus and can't make office meetings.

Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. Excuse my complete lack of knowledge on the subject, but rather than google it, what are the symptoms of Lupus? You can still draw and paint, apparently....

[Draconomicon]

Oh, I love the Hulk. That'd be my number one choice at Marvel...

...really?
I would never have thought you'd want to draw the Hulk.
Your art style, which is great, btw, always seemed to lend itself more to more athletic, slender/lean bodies than those like the Hulks.

I'd buy the book.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

Yeah, it's already carved there. To mark his birthplace. Ooops..I said too much.

See, that was funny! :smile:

[the4thpip]

Gail really started this thread to piss off John Byrne, didn't she?

[snarkbunny]

When?

And no, the Pinkos are the ones who won't let it drop. I'd like to make fun of everyone who believed Oliver Stone's JFK, which I'll bet included you. But I won't. It's irrelevant.

Here you go, Ethan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/bill-posey-wont-give-up-b_n_246300.html (http://washingtonindependent.com/53286/orlando-newspaper-zings-bill-posey-over-the-birther-bill)

http://washingtonindependent.com/53286/orlando-newspaper-zings-bill-posey-over-the-birther-bill

[Adam C]

MSNBC has given them airtime, along with FOX; I've seen stuff personally on those two networks.

Fair enough. I retract that part about Fox earlier as an error on my part in exercising sufficient care in my research.


Let me clarify, then: I personally have not, despite my subscriptions to publications like National Review, ever seen an argument FOR the birthers. I just haven't. I saw it in the National Enquirer before the election and had a laugh, but that's it. So if I, a person willing to receive and consider, all conservative viewpoints, have not seen this, and yet, still know about it from MSNBC, I can't accept that it's a widely held conservative belief.

If that's your point then I apologize for my earlier tirade as I misinterpreted what "yet it persists from the left means". And tracking back the origins of this post I'm actually surprised that anyone bothered to ask you that question in the first place.

(Though I can't say I've seen anyone claim it's a widely held conservative view point either, just exclaim surprise at its relative strength and persistence for a conspiracy theory.)

[Reverend Smooth]

My immune system attacks my body. I've got the systemic kind, which goes after everything. The main problem right now is two things-- one, that my kidneys and liver can't clear chemicals very well (because they got damaged), so within minutes I get chemical poisoning when I'm exposed to a lot of ubiquitous chemicals, and which also makes me stop breathing, etc from anaphylaxis.

The other is that most light makes my skin blister, burn, and hive so badly that I get covered and my orifices close, and my vision strobe, and my fever to spike really high. It destroys the cells that it touches; it's a complication that happens to some lupus patients and also to porphyrics. My laptop is shielded, but in the past even that was too bad.

I switched to digital because of all that, since the pantone fumes would hose me, and so would a light to draw by. So everything I do is with photoshop, painter, artrage, etc. Tablet PC so I can draw directly.

[Typo Lad]

When?

March 12th of this year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Posey#H.R._1503)

And it's a silly waste of time. I think anyone should be against such a waste of government time and resources. Indeed, seems a bit "big government" to me.


And no, the Pinkos are the ones who won't let it drop.

"Pinkos"? Really? Did you really just use that term?

Dear G-d man, what are you, 65?

As everyone keeps pointing out, the "Fair and Balanced" folks at Fox are just as guilty of perpetuating this stupidity as the folks at MSNBC and CNN.

This isn't about ideology, it's about ratings.


Again the assumptions. Always the bigshot assumptions here.

For shame, sir.

In all seriousness, if you don't stop addressing me with these fax Yiddishisms, I really will take offense and report the posts. If you've never been mocked like that, you have no idea how disgusting it is. Frankly, were you in the room... well, I don't know how mellow I'd be about it.


I suppose it was an idea worth investigating, and since it was investigated and lead nowhere, it should be over with now.

You know what annoys me about the whole thing? The amount of ignorance it shows of what "natural born citizen" means. Mr. Obama could have been born on the moon, and as long as one parent was a US Citizen, he'd be one.


And good idea.

What we need is people to get up and say "Oh DO be quiet, you're embarrassing yourselves." Not just to the "Birthers", but to the news networks and outlets, no matter what the ideology, that give these nuts screen time.



And what stations other than Fox are giving them airtime? I am unaware.

As others point out, MSNBC has given them a heavy amount of rotation, and CNN has done more than a few shows.

Plus, there's the blogs, which are so desperate for content that they'll generally report anything.

TODAY ON HUFFINGTON POST: OBAMA DRINKS BUD LIGHT. MAN OF THE PEOPLE? READ OUR EDITORIAL.

TODAY ON LITTLEGREENFOOTBALLS: OBAMA DRINKS BUD LIGHT. WHAT KIND OF PANSY DO WE HAVE IN OFFICE.

The internet is scary.


Yes, pointing out that one label encompasses many little labels, and therefore, has no meaning, only gets a "dear god lol" from me. Try it on someone else! :)

Well, I was more saying that the label can mean a ton of different things. There's no real point in discussing Left vs Right unless you know what both parties mean. To some, Gay Marriage is a very "Left" issue, to the point that many consider it a deal-breaker. I once wrote an article that had me called both a Zionist Oppressor and Palestinian Nationalist.

Basically, there's no real Binary Opposition in Isms.


I couldn't have cared less, Typo. Not an insult, I just have thick skin.

No insult meant, and none is taken. Actually, something I have noticed and liked about you is you seem pretty even keel about criticism... and my post wasn't even criticism of your work, it was just a notation of my personal taste. Technically, your work is quite good. Also, I rather enjoy the little personal touches you gave each Green Lantern's power signature.


What was Comics Pro?

E-mail list. I was thinking we were both on it, but it may just be that I corresponded with you around the same time I was on it, and got confused. You were working at Harris and I was going to college around the corner, and a third party suggested we talk. The same third party then slandered you to me, and I sort of dropped the conversation.

[Calybos]

And no, the Pinkos are the ones who won't let it drop. .

In this, you were simply wrong. The proof has already been posted, and you said you accept it. So, moving on....



.

[KevinTBrown]

By the way, another reason to love Ethan: He loves animals.



(Trying to really get this back on track.)

[Typo Lad]

By the way, another reason to love Ethan: He loves animals.


That's a rather disgusting claim to make about another human being!

[Ethan Van Sciver]

My immune system attacks my body. I've got the systemic kind, which goes after everything. The main problem right now is two things-- one, that my kidneys and liver can't clear chemicals very well (because they got damaged), so within minutes I get chemical poisoning when I'm exposed to a lot of ubiquitous chemicals, and which also makes me stop breathing, etc from anaphylaxis.

The other is that most light makes my skin blister, burn, and hive so badly that I get covered and my orifices close, and my vision strobe, and my fever to spike really high. It destroys the cells that it touches; it's a complication that happens to some lupus patients and also to porphyrics. My laptop is shielded, but in the past even that was too bad.

I switched to digital because of all that, since the pantone fumes would hose me, and so would a light to draw by. So everything I do is with photoshop, painter, artrage, etc. Tablet PC so I can draw directly.

That sounds fucking AWFUL, Smooth, and I'm sorry to hear that. It's unfair.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Calybos]

The Left is a malignant, deceptive philosophy that a lot of people, in times of trouble, worry and weakness, subscribe to. The people aren't to blame.

And in this, of course, you are simply and profoundly wrong. But don't worry--I don't hate you for it. Plenty of people are foolish or ignorant enough to be conservative, or turn to conservatism when they're feeling angry and scared; it's not really their fault. They just don't know any better!

This is why we need to improve public education.


.

[Adam C]

Yes, pointing out that one label encompasses many little labels, and therefore, has no meaning, only gets a "dear god lol" from me. Try it on someone else! :)

It wasn't so much the labels themselves as that are names for diverse political practices and ideas that one could fit under "The Left", makes really makes these tendencies sound as though this broad political tendency is one homogenous entity. But I'm referring to ideas from radical to moderate, authoritarian to democratic to libertarian*, from those who want to sweep away the market economy and everything associated with it entirely to those who largely accept it and merely want to reform and regulate its workings. And if the term is not meant to be homogenous, it doesn't help that you haven't explained why it's evil or malignant despite requests by fellow posters to clarify your points.

* In this case I mean 'libertarian' not so much in sense of the radical take on classical liberalism found the U.S., but to mean the opposite of 'authoritarian.' i.e.; Anarcho-socialism as represented by Emma Goldman or Murray Bookchin broadly proposes creating decentralized, democratically run collectives/cooperatives as an alternative the conventional state and market economy. This runs in radical contrast to the centralized state bureaucracy and one-party system of Lenin and his followers.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

In this, you were simply wrong. The proof has already been posted, and you said you accept it. So, moving on....



.

Eh? LOL! That was satire, I take it?

[Ethan Van Sciver]

March 12th of this year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Posey#H.R._1503)

And it's a silly waste of time. I think anyone should be against such a waste of government time and resources. Indeed, seems a bit "big government" to me.



"Pinkos"? Really? Did you really just use that term?

Dear G-d man, what are you, 65?

As everyone keeps pointing out, the "Fair and Balanced" folks at Fox are just as guilty of perpetuating this stupidity as the folks at MSNBC and CNN.

This isn't about ideology, it's about ratings.



In all seriousness, if you don't stop addressing me with these fax Yiddishisms, I really will take offense and report the posts. If you've never been mocked like that, you have no idea how disgusting it is. Frankly, were you in the room... well, I don't know how mellow I'd be about it.



You know what annoys me about the whole thing? The amount of ignorance it shows of what "natural born citizen" means. Mr. Obama could have been born on the moon, and as long as one parent was a US Citizen, he'd be one.



What we need is people to get up and say "Oh DO be quiet, you're embarrassing yourselves." Not just to the "Birthers", but to the news networks and outlets, no matter what the ideology, that give these nuts screen time.



As others point out, MSNBC has given them a heavy amount of rotation, and CNN has done more than a few shows.

Plus, there's the blogs, which are so desperate for content that they'll generally report anything.

TODAY ON HUFFINGTON POST: OBAMA DRINKS BUD LIGHT. MAN OF THE PEOPLE? READ OUR EDITORIAL.

TODAY ON LITTLEGREENFOOTBALLS: OBAMA DRINKS BUD LIGHT. WHAT KIND OF PANSY DO WE HAVE IN OFFICE.

The internet is scary.



Well, I was more saying that the label can mean a ton of different things. There's no real point in discussing Left vs Right unless you know what both parties mean. To some, Gay Marriage is a very "Left" issue, to the point that many consider it a deal-breaker. I once wrote an article that had me called both a Zionist Oppressor and Palestinian Nationalist.

Basically, there's no real Binary Opposition in Isms.



No insult meant, and none is taken. Actually, something I have noticed and liked about you is you seem pretty even keel about criticism... and my post wasn't even criticism of your work, it was just a notation of my personal taste. Technically, your work is quite good. Also, I rather enjoy the little personal touches you gave each Green Lantern's power signature.



E-mail list. I was thinking we were both on it, but it may just be that I corresponded with you around the same time I was on it, and got confused. You were working at Harris and I was going to college around the corner, and a third party suggested we talk. The same third party then slandered you to me, and I sort of dropped the conversation.

Typo, you can't...I can't reply to this the way it's put together. It's too convoluted.

"Pinko" was used by The4thPip in the post I was replying to. I used it back, that's all...

[Reverend Smooth]

<3 Thank you.

Hopefully Hollow will do ok; it's not wise to count on a comic to get one out of poverty, but the boost in income should make things more tolerable.

Anyway, good luck on your projects, especially in this economy. Job security for artists can be so dodgy. DX

[Ethan Van Sciver]

And in this, of course, you are simply and profoundly wrong. But don't worry--I don't hate you for it. Plenty of people are foolish or ignorant enough to be conservative, or turn to conservatism when they're feeling angry and scared; it's not really their fault. They just don't know any better!

This is why we need to improve public education.


.

Alright! That's that problem solved! Next! LOL!

[Ethan Van Sciver]

By the way, another reason to love Ethan: He loves animals.



(Trying to really get this back on track.)

I do. I love my Chinchillas. Now will you all excuse my genocidal tendencies?

[Spackling Compound]

I do. I love my Chinchillas. Now will you all excuse my genocidal tendencies?

Chinchillas? Pinko. They are only taking the cuteness that American ferrets are too lazy to do.

[Typo Lad]

Typo, you can't...I can't reply to this the way it's put together. It's too convoluted.

Man, if I had a buck for every time I've heard that...

Seriously though, sorry to infodump.


"Pinko" was used by The4thPip in the post I was replying to. I used it back, that's all...

Ahh. That makes sense then.

[Ethan Van Sciver]

<3 Thank you.

Hopefully Hollow will do ok; it's not wise to count on a comic to get one out of poverty, but the boost in income should make things more tolerable.

Anyway, good luck on your projects, especially in this economy. Job security for artists can be so dodgy. DX

I'll look for Hollow, but yeah, the comics economy isn't improving at the moment. But you know what? It's hard to really know that for sure, considering the fact that Graphic Novels and TPBs have grown so much in the last 10 years. It's like being able to way for an entire season of television on DVD rather than watch it on the air bit by bit, and some people would rather do that. So we could be looking at a whole shift, rather than a decline.

And I'm very lucky at the moment, being on the very tip top of the iceberg, working with the best people on the best projects, and having fun. It took a while to get here, Smooth, but it was worth it. You can do it too, because I did, and I only have a tiny scrap of talent.

[Reverend Smooth]

Thank you, and you've got a lot more talent than that. :3

[Adam C]

"Pinkos"? Really? Did you really just use that term?

Dear G-d man, what are you, 65?

As everyone keeps pointing out, the "Fair and Balanced" folks at Fox are just as guilty of perpetuating this stupidity as the folks at MSNBC and CNN.

This isn't about ideology, it's about ratings.

As far as media coverage goes I agree completely, which is why my earlier use of Fox as an example was a mistake. But is the continuation of this nonsense really just due to media coverage? It seems that there is persistent political problems here if some lawmakers feel sufficiently pressured to introduce legislation like Bill Posey did, which lends a skein of legitimacy to the Birthers' complaints, as well state level legislators have done in the link I posted earlier.

[Sabrinaset]

maaaan .... go to work and to the City Walk, and this place explodes!


Also, in all seriousness, it really depends on how one defines "conservative". There's a reason I dislike labels, and that's because they tend to not fit properly. I mean, can one be conservative and pro gay marriage? Conservative and an athiest? Conservative and religious?

It's a fluid term.

Not exactly. As a teenager, I came out as pro-gun, pro-life, and that AUTOMATIACALLY got me labeled as a conservative by everyone else. By those of a leftist bent, well before I accepted it myself.


Yet according to some conservatives, you can't be a conservative and be an atheist. Or be a conservative and be pro gay marriage. Just like some say you can't be "liberal" and religious.

They're wrong. However, you forget that many liberals say the same thing. Heck, we have a poster who says anyone who is black and conservative should be beaten.


That is a lie. The major proponents of the birther conspiracy are for the most part of the political right... So I don't know by what standard you claim that the birther conspiracy is originating from the left.

This is entirely anecdotal, but at work, the people who are talking the most about the Birthers ...indeed, who are talking about it at all... are the liberals. The conservatives at work don't care. I honestly can't help thinking that this whole thing is something a bunch of liberals are keeping in the public eye in order to smear the political opposition, because no one I know who is a conservative or a republican cares. AT ALL. But again, purely anecdotal, so take it as you will.


What Typo said. You're definition of "The Left" is so vague as to be meaningless, and based on American politics it could include anything from social liberalism to social democracy, Green decentralism, to Communism/Marxist-Leninism, to various strains of anarcho-socialism.

But even on this board, I see definitions of the right that are so vague and all-encompasing as to be worthless, and yet no one notices. Just yesterday, I had a discussion with someone who insisted that by definition, Fundamentalist Christians are all inherently bigoted. And that the far right, the whole far right, hates Arabs. As if there aren't people on the far right who don't care about that at all, but are far right when it comes to economic issues, or .... *sigh*. And this is viewed here as a completely reasonable assumption since no one here batted an eye. My list of liberal generalities posted on YABS just keeps growing.

[Free-Man]

maaaan .... go to work and to the City Walk, and this place explodes!



Not exactly. As a teenager, I came out as pro-gun, pro-life, and that AUTOMATIACALLY got me labeled as a conservative by everyone else. By those of a leftist bent, well before I accepted it myself.



They're wrong. However, you forget that many liberals say the same thing. Heck, we have a poster who says anyone who is black and conservative should be beaten.



This is entirely anecdotal, but at work, the people who are talking the most about the Birthers ...indeed, who are talking about it at all... are the liberals. The conservatives at work don't care. I honestly can't help thinking that this whole thing is something a bunch of liberals are keeping in the public eye in order to smear the political opposition, because no one I know who is a conservative or a republican cares. AT ALL. But again, purely anecdotal, so take it as you will.



But even on this board, I see definitions of the right that are so vague and all-encompasing as to be worthless, and yet no one notices. Just yesterday, I had a discussion with someone who insisted that by definition, Fundamentalist Christians are all inherently bigoted and that "the right" hates Arabs. Not just some of them, but ALL of them. And this is viewed here as a completely reasonable assumption since no one here batted an eye. My list of liberal generalities posted on YABS just keeps growing.

Okay, you definately get my vote for favorite poster of all time.

[beetlebum]

And in this, of course, you are simply and profoundly wrong. But don't worry--I don't hate you for it. Plenty of people are foolish or ignorant enough to be conservative, or turn to conservatism when they're feeling angry and scared; it's not really their fault. They just don't know any better!

This is why we need to improve public education.


.

It is official:

You're obviously not smart enough to form a proper argument as to why you believe what you believe.

So instead, you hurl your pathetic little insults at people who happen to have different political beliefs from you in order to feel better about your shortcomings.

Posts like this are why I'm more content to throw my hat in with the more conservative/libertarian posters on CBR.

I've actually found conservatives and most Republicans to be friendly people who didn't care that I happened to be a minority and a woman.

But by all means, let's dismiss the anecdotal evidence so you can keep making your little comments.

I'd rather hang out with people like them than associate with people who are content to reduce another set of individuals to essentialist assumptions, based on their own personal prejudices.

EDIT: I should add that I don't approve of Ethan's generalities about the Left either. There's a lot of that going around, and I find it rather annoying.

[Corrina]

Bree's right.

Which is why the other two threads got tossed in the Ultra Mega thread.

We have a fantastic artist here, more than willing to talk about his craft and his work and instead there are pages and pages talking about his politics instead. It's not remotely the most interesting thing I would like to know about Ethan Van Sciver.

For instance, how can we not love him?

Does this mean he's got some sort of Venus-like love power? Or maybe he's into mind-control. :)

[Major Comma]

I think its great Ethan is here and I could care less about his politics .
But I have often wondered if he could have ANY Super Power to counter those who disagree with his views which one would he pick?

[Sabrinaset]

Bree's right.

YEAH!!!


We have a fantastic artist here, more than willing to talk about his craft and his work and instead there are pages and pages talking about his politics instead. It's not remotely the most interesting thing I would like to know about Ethan Van Sciver.

For instance, how can we not love him?

Does this mean he's got some sort of Venus-like love power? Or maybe he's into mind-control. :)

Come on guys, thanks to Ethan, we now live in a world in which ANYONE can get one of THESE just like I did today!!!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/Action%20Figures/SwagGL.jpg

[Major Comma]

AHHHHH!
Thats his secret!
Thanks Bree!

[Major Comma]

Bree,
Do you have a GL outtfit to go along with your Flash costume?

[Sabrinaset]

Bree,
Do you have a GL outtfit to go along with your Flash costume?

Myself, Mermaid, SunshineGirl, and DoctorDoom have one, yeah! The Blonde Lantern Corps!

[Adam C]

This is entirely anecdotal, but at work, the people who are talking the most about the Birthers ...indeed, who are talking about it at all... are the liberals. [...] I honestly can't help thinking that this whole thing is something a bunch of liberals are keeping in the public eye in order to smear the political opposition...

Earlier Typo suggested that they are in the media because it drives ratings which is fairly possible given the way news media gloms onto trivialities. I added though that even though they are fringe movement, getting a few legislators to condescend to their concerns is a surprising accomplishment compared to past fringes. I don't know there's a satisfactory answer at this point, though arguably it's moot since I impulsively launched us on this tangent by misreading Scriver's point on that issue.


But even on this board, I see definitions of the right that are so vague and all-encompasing as to be worthless, and yet no one notices. Just yesterday, I had a discussion with someone who insisted that by definition, Fundamentalist Christians are all inherently bigoted and that "the right" hates Arabs. Not just some on the right, no it's THE COMPLETE RIGHT-WING. And this is viewed here as a completely reasonable assumption since no one here batted an eye. My list of liberal generalities posted on YABS just keeps growing.

I missed that one myself (linky?), but that's exactly the point I was getting at when I responded to EVS calling "The Left" evil. Tarring an entire, vaguely defined political tendency as "evil" with little to no reasoning is completely irrational at best, and saying the entirety of the Right hates Arabs is just a more specific version of that mentality. I don't think I need to get into the implications as to where this thinking leads.

[friginator]

Plenty of people are foolish or ignorant enough to be conservative, or turn to conservatism when they're feeling angry and scared; it's not really their fault. They just don't know any better!

This is why we need to improve public education.

So that it can force kids to be more liberal? People turn to fear and hate because they don't know any better, not because they're under-educated. Being conservative isn't about that.

[the4thpip]

Bree's right.

Which is why the other two threads got tossed in the Ultra Mega thread.



Which usually means that the discussion dies after 24 hours. :frown:

[Kevinroc]

The problem with politics is that it has become a game of "all or nothing." People can't just have a good idea.

I know a couple of conservatives. Quite a few of them are rather intelligent individuals that I will admit are personal friends of mine. They're good people.

I myself tend to fall more on the liberal side of things. My mom is a pretty liberal individual and I love her to death.

A lot of people in this thread are not putting politics aside because they find Ethan's politics to be repulsive. I could care less what Ethan thinks about Cap & Trade or any other political issue. Ethan is a very capable and talented comic book artist. He's not a crazy Fox News host like Glenn Beck. (I'm using Beck as my example because I think he's a crazy person who makes jokes about poisoning the Speaker of the House.)

As long as Ethan draws pictures of Bart Allen being awesome, I'll have no problems with whatever he says about his politics because I don't care. Ethan can't change my personal politics. And I know that I, just some random guy on the internet, won't change his mind on anything political.

It makes me a bit sad that this thread has gone so far off the rails. It should have just been about how far Ethan has grown as an artist from that young pup whose work I first saw on Impulse.

[Calybos]

It is official:

You're obviously not smart enough to form a proper argument as to why you believe what you believe.

So instead, you hurl your pathetic little insults at people who happen to have different political beliefs from you in order to feel better about your shortcomings.



And yet... all I did was use Ethan's very own argument and turn it back around on him. (re: Posts #233 and #238)

Not long after he claimed to be repulsed by the "elitism and arrogance of the left," mind you.

Interesting blinders you're wearing....


.

[Eallison]

It's not remotely the most interesting thing I would like to know about Ethan Van Sciver.

For instance, how can we not love him?

Does this mean he's got some sort of Venus-like love power? Or maybe he's into mind-control. :)

Can't it be both, like the late Earl Warren?

Sorry, love that line :)

Love your art, Ethan!

Take it and run,

[DavidAllred]

I was real disappointed at Heroes this year... the lines around EVS were insane and I only brought two books to get signed, Surreal Adventures of Edgar Allen Poo (Thomas Boatright), and Flash: Rebirth #1. Boatright didn't make it and Ethan's line was insane. I wanted Flash signed for my son to match the GL:Rebirth #1 (displayed in his room) I got last year. He's at the age where comics are coming to life for him.

In Knoxville at AdventureCon 2008, I pretty much just got to pull up right next to the table and camp out while he drew, which was cool. He never turned anyone away and answered a litnany of questions coming at him from people dressed in Star Wars costumes. From afar, it seemed like quite an amusing afair.

[Bo Bo]

I would love him if he made me a sandwich. :tongue:

[mikekerr3]

Nutjob is inappropriate. I don't dispute that he is on the extreme end of the conservative spectrum and if his politics were enacted I'd leave the country. However nuts jobs are insane and, more importantly, a danger to themselves and others which is why we lock them up even though they haven't done anything wrong. As much as you disagree with Ethan's politics there is nothing emotionally unstable about him.

That became debatable when he accused people of wanting to murderer old people in the YABS politics thread:frown:

[Spackling Compound]

That became debatable when he accused people of wanting to murderer old people in the YABS politics thread:frown:

In the spirit of hyperbole which is common here, EVS was saying that the health care plan initiated by President Obama does not provide adequate attention to the needs of the elderly and could possibly ignore them altogether.

Just like people say anyone who votes Republican hates gay people.

Short-handed, inflammatory statements that, depending on which side of the center you're on, is either accepted or rejected.

[mikekerr3]

Fair enough. I retract that part about Fox earlier as an error on my part in exercising sufficient care in my research.



If that's your point then I apologize for my earlier tirade as I misinterpreted what "yet it persists from the left means". And tracking back the origins of this post I'm actually surprised that anyone bothered to ask you that question in the first place.

(Though I can't say I've seen anyone claim it's a widely held conservative view point either, just exclaim surprise at its relative strength and persistence for a conspiracy theory.)

I don't think it is a widely held conservative belive more like a loudly held belief. But i have sseen little attempt to serously quite the nutbags down from conservtive, and the sleasebags on talk radio are goading it on.


I saw a tea party locally and that kind of idiotic venom made up a significant part of the crowd. Probably 60% decent people and 40% fear and hate mongering bigots and idiots. With the speaker egging the worse part on.

[Charles RB]

That became debatable when he accused people of wanting to murderer old people in the YABS politics thread:frown:

In fairness, he wasn't saying the people wanted to kill the elderly - just that they were backing a system that would deliberately kill the elderly to keep costs down. (Which it wouldn't)

[Reverend Smooth]

Just like people say anyone who votes Republican hates gay people.

Short-handed, inflammatory statements that, depending on which side of the center you're on, is either accepted or rejected.
Considering you're on record saying that pedophilia's more common and accepted amongst homosexuals, you're living up to the stereotype.

[mikekerr3]

So that it can force kids to be more liberal? People turn to fear and hate because they don't know any better, not because they're under-educated. Being conservative isn't about that.

Being conservative is not about that, but that is the Republicans chosen path to power It has been since Gingrich.

[mikekerr3]

In the spirit of hyperbole which is common here, EVS was saying that the health care plan initiated by President Obama does not provide adequate attention to the needs of the elderly and could possibly ignore them altogether.

Just like people say anyone who votes Republican hates gay people.

Short-handed, inflammatory statements that, depending on which side of the center you're on, is either accepted or rejected.

I would buy that except it's factually wrong, if it could be backed up somehow i could respect it, but it just seems to me a parroting of the latest "big lie". Like the bit about people being forced to choose end of life care with a government counselor.

[mikekerr3]

In fairness, he wasn't saying the people wanted to kill the elderly - just that they were backing a system that would deliberately kill the elderly to keep costs down. (Which it wouldn't)

Isn't that a difference without distinction?

[Charles RB]

"Want to kill elderly" implies you go around thinking "gee, I'd sure like to kill some grannies!". The other means you do it to be cost-effective rather than out of a desire.

[Spackling Compound]

Considering you're on record saying that pedophilia's more common and accepted amongst homosexuals, you're living up to the stereotype.

I was quoting something from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_pederastic_relationships#20th_century).

[Karl O'Neill]

I wish I knew something about american politics!

I presume left means lighthearted and laid back, and right means serious and old fashioned?

Fill me in guys.

What side is obama? and Is he doing a good job?

Thanks.

These are honest to god questions.

[Typo Lad]

That's an oversimplification, but Obama's really more of a Centrist.

[Typo Lad]

Oh, and it's too soon to know what kind of job he's doing.

[Karl O'Neill]

That's an oversimplification, but Obama's really more of a Centrist.

so explain............

I am all eyes.

[Typo Lad]

so explain............

I am all eyes.
Well, for example, he's hardly a fiscal conservative (but then, neither was Mister Bush). He's certainly seen as pushing an agenda that results in more government oversight. I personally am not sure how necessary that is as much as we need to overhaul the system in place. His goal of a Federal Live Insurance plan is certainly "left", but not to the extreme people think (the goal is an option, not mandatory like some think).

However, on other issues where he was embraced by the "left", things have dialed back. He's done nothing for DADT, and has not been outspoken as many would like.

He went into office saying he would work on creating a bi-partisan system, but then hired Rahm Emanuel, The Great Divider, as his COS. Emanuel is, essentially, the reason that we didn't get a National Health Care plan under Clinton. That sent strong messages to a lot of people, on the left and right.

[Karl O'Neill]

I am asking for an explaination on the differences in right and left in america:biggrin:

[LtMarvel]

I'm such a writer geek that I had no idea who Ethan Van Sciver is, despite owning several of the books posted in the first half-dozen pages.

[Reverend Smooth]

I was quoting something from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_pederastic_relationships#20th_century). To snipe, ignoring the established fact that a) the rate of pedophilia amongst homosexuals is no greater than among hets, and b) also that whilst these relationships were going on, guys were often marrying, or at least sleeping with, women of the same age. (And vastly outnumbered said gay relationships, I might note.)

Oh, but, you cry, c) that supports my argument that fucking teens is grrrreat--

No, it's still a lame argument. Get an adult gf and have her wear a schoolgirl outfit like the rest of us do.

The reliability of quoting wikipedia aside, you were cherry-picking facts and taking a swipe at gays. I can't believe you call yourself a christian when you're such a dishonest guy. Jesus must be really damn disappointed in you. You seem to think you're smarter than everyone here, but you're really not, so quit with the crappy trolling.

[Typo Lad]

Rev, I'd be unfair if I didn't point out that you're sinking to his level.

[Reverend Smooth]

I disagree to a point: I'm not lying and I'm not being passive-aggressive. And, unlike him, I'm not dissing things that he can't help, like illness or poverty.

[Sabrinaset]

I am asking for an explaination on the differences in right and left in america:biggrin:

If you were to ask me to (over)simplify it into one short sentence, it would seem to me that Liberals believe more government to be the solution to our problems, while Conservatives believe that less government is the solution.

(Not that that's actually happening lately ...)

[Reverend Smooth]

That hasn't been happening in the last three decades. The main difference is, for most americans, social policy. Republicans also seem to want to spend less on social services and infrastructure but more on the military, whilst democrats tend to want to spend more on social services and infrastructure and less on the military. Republicans tend to push for the influence of religion in government (whilst being unable to quote from their own texts), whilst Democrats tend to not want that, though there's been some caving in the last decade or so.

More corporate regulation seems to be a democrat thing, and the republican party switches (edit-- shifts, rather) the other way.

Libertarians and some republicans tend to prefer a laissez-faire approach to the economy and very little spending on social services at all. So far as I can tell, as of right now, republicans who would prefer that religion stay out of politics are a minority.

The problem with right/left in the US is that the right has pretty much cut out conservatives who are mostly so for fiscal and not religious grounds, whilst the left has cut out folks pushing for progress on social issues, single-payer healthcare, etc. There is NO far or even seriously left of center party in the US that has any kind of power in politics; there is no equivalent to, say, the NDP here.

If the republican party could break with the religious fundamentalists, they might get more traction with centrists and even some liberals, but given the out of control costs of healthcare, I don't know. The current system is not working.

[Typo Lad]

I disagree to a point: I'm not lying and I'm not being passive-aggressive. And, unlike him, I'm not dissing things that he can't help, like illness or poverty.

No, but you are making a thread that's not about him into one about him. Don't feed it.


If you were to ask me to (over)simplify it into one short sentence, it would seem to me that Liberals believe more government to be the solution to our problems, while Conservatives believe that less government is the solution.

(Not that that's actually happening lately ...)

I dunno if I agree. A lot of Conservative solutions are just as "big government" as the "Liberal" ones. A amendment to ban gay marriage is pretty "big government".

I would say that the difference is a Liberal is anyone who focuses on the Social Contract first (no matter how they personally define it) and a Conservative is someone who focuses on the strength of the nation first (again, definitions vary). Then there are us Centrists, who realize they go hand-in-hand.

[Reverend Smooth]

Even that's messy as a definition, imo; letting gays serve openly in the military would strengthen the nation by adding more troops (and reinstating qualified translators), and so would more investment in keeping folks healthy and well-educated; fighting misdirected wars isn't making the US strong.

[Typo Lad]

Even that's messy as a definition, imo; letting gays serve openly in the military would strengthen the nation by adding more troops (and reinstating qualified translators), and so would more investment in keeping folks healthy and well-educated; fighting misdirected wars isn't making the US strong.
That's why I noted that the "how they personally define it" caveat.

And you have no idea how many people I've made go "hmmm" with that same argument.

[Spackling Compound]

To snipe, ignoring the established fact that a) the rate of pedophilia amongst homosexuals is no greater than among hets, and b) also that whilst these relationships were going on, guys were often marrying, or at least sleeping with, women of the same age. (And vastly outnumbered said gay relationships, I might note.)
I just put a link up. It was a link!


Oh, but, you cry, c) that supports my argument that fucking teens is grrrreat--
That's not what I said. Ever. The quality of sexual intercourse with teens has never been something I've remotely discussed.


No, it's still a lame argument. Get an adult gf and have her wear a schoolgirl outfit like the rest of us do.
Who's the "rest of us"?


The reliability of quoting wikipedia aside, you were cherry-picking facts and taking a swipe at gays. I can't believe you call yourself a christian when you're such a dishonest guy. Jesus must be really damn disappointed in you. You seem to think you're smarter than everyone here, but you're really not, so quit with the crappy trolling.
When did I begin to troll here? I believe you brought up old business.


Rev, I'd be unfair if I didn't point out that you're sinking to his level
Sir, you are stirring the pot! I thought you said you were trying to get along with me. This is how?

[Reverend Smooth]

I just put a link up. It was a link!Yawn.

That's not what I said. Ever.
Blah, blah, blah.

[the4thpip]

So.
Vinnie Coletta.
Threat or menace?

[Sabrinaset]

Well, I *did* say my defintion of the differences between the left and right was a huge oversimplification, guys ...! It works for me is all.


So.
Vinnie Coletta.
Threat or menace?

A threat to all artists everywhere!

Just say NO to Vince Coletta!

[Spackling Compound]

A threat to all artists everywhere!

Just say NO to Vince Coletta!

He ruined the Defenders for me in the 70's. Unpardonable!

However, Googling his name (under Images) turned this up for some reason...
http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/42332/2657997640104130342S425x425Q85.jpg

So, I'm on the fence now!

[Charles RB]

Republicans also seem to want to spend less on social services and infrastructure but more on the military, whilst democrats tend to want to spend more on social services and infrastructure and less on the military.

Though even Democrats are going to spending a crapload on the military, more than any single other country. I've seen this get ignored by Repubs, since "the other guys want to slightly reduce spending while still keeping America in a position to beat up anyone it wants, cos that's how any government rolls!" isn't a very good rallying cry.

[Sabrinaset]

Are we discussing the differences between Conservatives and Liberals, or Republicans and Democrats?

[Bo Bo]

I thought we were talking about things Ethan can do to make us love him? :confused:

[Sabrinaset]

I thought we were talking about things Ethan can do to make us love him? :confused:

Iv'e tried but it doesn't seem to stick! I might have to start using my de-railing powers!

[4thHorseman]

Iv'e tried but it doesn't seem to stick! I might have to start using my de-railing powers!

Seems like you may have to de-rail to re-rail.

[Reverend Smooth]

Are we discussing the differences between Conservatives and Liberals, or Republicans and Democrats?Both, since there's several versions of conservative and liberal, and there's several ways that plays out in american politics.

Fiscal conservative? Not so much with the republicans; republican administrations spend as much as democratic ones do. Social conservative? Very much with the republicans. Environmental conservative? They dropped that a few decades ago. And they do call themselves conservatives, and while they're not true conservatives (if you consider, say, Barry Goldwater a decent ideal of what a conservative should be), that's what they're called here by most folks one talks to.

It's like saying Democrats are liberal; they're moreso than conservatives, but they're so not by almost any other country's standards. Gay marriage? Nope, civil unions. Single-payer healthcare? Nope, messy hodge-podge. Environment? Weak policy. Etc. If you dropped most democrats in Canada and probably most of europe and central and south america, they'd likely be right of center. (Kind of how the Canadian Liberal party is pretty much in the center there, NDP is to the left.)

So it would probably better to describe oneself, imo, on the conservative side, as a fiscal conservative, social conservative, or whatever. Republicans and Democrats unfortunately dominate american politics because the political system is set up to favor two big parties. Liberals, it's not quite as much of a pain, since the Democratic party has never exactly been able to unify its base anyway, even if it veers to the center more than to the left most of the time.

Both parties spend a lot, it just depends on what.

That's why I look askance at claims that the democrats are evil leftist socialists, etc, etc, will ruin the economy, etc; I come from a country that's got socialised medicine, is further left on social issues, and yet, the healthcare is more efficient, seniors live longer and have better quality of life, more babies survive, and anyone can get treatment; social mobility is in fact better, taxes are not that much higher (especially for about 90% of folks), and the economy is doing well. And they're way further left than Democrats or most lefties in the US are. Even most centrist folks in Canada, and many on the right, think that citizens should be entitled to universal healthcare.

If they can manage a decent economy, comparable taxes, and universal coverage and better life expectancy, the US should be able to, too. One could argue that the US could do it better because even its leftists are more conservative than most other industrialised nations'.

I didn't move away from my country because it was run by a bunch of evil nazis, for goodness' sake. (I left because my home province struggled to find different industries after the railroads and docks and some manufacturing closed and bigotry was pretty institutionalised; now that infotech companies from outside moved in, there's a lot more jobs and the economy's turned around.)

[Bo Bo]

Iv'e tried but it doesn't seem to stick! I might have to start using my de-railing powers!

De-rail a de-rail? Is that even possible!? :eek: :wink:

[Sabrinaset]

De-rail a de-rail? Is that even possible!? :eek: :wink:

Let's see if it can be done!

RE-introducing Mermaid, SunshineGirl, DoctorDoom, and Sabrinaset ... The Blonde Lantern Corps!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/YABSers/5-26-200965635PM.jpg

[Free-Man]

Let's see if it can be done!

RE-introducing Mermaid, SunshineGirl, DoctorDoom, and Sabrinaset ... The Blonde Lantern Corps!


Aren't there four of you?

[Sabrinaset]

Aren't there four of you?

We're always recruiting!

[Free-Man]

We're always recruiting!

This "recruiting" doesn't involve being violently being abducted and drafted into the corps, does it?:tongue:

[Bo Bo]

We're always recruiting!

What about Sally?

[Sabrinaset]

What about Sally?

We're working on her! She won't join unless we have a day-care plan and access to a good soccer field!

[Free-Man]

We're working on her! She won't join unless we have a day-care plan and access to a good soccer field!

Can't you just make those with the rings?:tongue:

[Bo Bo]

We're working on her! She won't join unless we have a day-care plan and access to a good soccer field!

Ah. hope you can get that sorted out. Think she'd be a kickass addition to the team.

So do the blonde lanterns have a weakness?

[Sarah Beach]

Ah. hope you can get that sorted out. Think she'd be a kickass addition to the team.

So do the blonde lanterns have a weakness?

They have a weakness for GREEN -- greenbacks, that is. :biggrin:

[Major Comma]

So, The Blonde Lanterns Power Rings dont have a weakness to the color YELLOW?

[Night Swordsman]

I met Ethan very briefly at SDCC in 2007, and purchased a Green Latern artwork for a good friend(who is a big GL fan). He was nice and kind, but i was too shy to take up his time.

Love his artwork.

[Major Comma]

The counterparts for the GLs are the Sinestro Corps.
Who are the counterparts for The Blonde Lanterns?

[Night Swordsman]

The counterparts for the GLs are the Sinestro Corps.
Who are the counterparts for The Blonde Lanterns?

The LESTER Corps.

I am betting on either Eggplant or Majenta.

[the4thpip]

The LESTER Corps.

I am betting on either Eggplant or Majenta.

Or nude. :eek:

[thehod]

I am asking for an explaination on the differences in right and left in america:biggrin:

The origins of the concepts of left and right in politics come from French politics around the time of the revolution (1790ish) where the monarchists sat to the right of the speaker and the commoners sat to the left. To be on the right side was implied support of aristocracy and church, whereas the left implied support for the republic and civil liberties.

I wonder how many Americans would totally abandon the concepts of Left and Right if they knew they had their origins in France?

What this means to Americans is not an question I can answer, but to an outsider it seems that in some cases, either side thinks that the other is far more on the extreme then they actually are. Therefore the Right fell that all politics on the Left is the politics of communism, whereas the Left feel that the Right is the politics of facism. The truth is actually that whilst some people run up and down the political spectrum, most actually hover fairly close to the centre.

An incredibly simplistic look at it, but then again a certain percentage of people only manage to show simplistic attitudes to the whole debate when it comes to their opposition of a particular political viewpoint, hence Ethan's rather juvenile branding of the Left as 'evil'.

[Adam C]

The origins of the concepts of left and right in politics come from French politics around the time of the revolution (1790ish) where the monarchists sat to the right of the speaker and the commoners sat to the left. To be on the right side was implied support of aristocracy and church, whereas the left implied support for the republic and civil liberties.

I wouldn't characterize the men who sat on the left hand side of the Legislative Assembly of 1791 as "commoners". In fact the vast majority of the assembly were of the middle class (which was hardly the majority in French society at that point), with a few noblemen and clergy, The Girondists and Montagards (who later furnished the authoritarian wing of the Revolution popularly known as the "Jacobins") were largely composed of men from that strata.

But the other kicker is that the left of the 1791 Legislative Assembly largely favoured laissez-faire economics as they were classical liberals, with a small section representing ideas that could be called proto-socialist that later became more pronounced in the Revolution. So 'Left-Right' didn't even have the same meanings as we understand them when they emerged. Liberalism only got gradually displaced from the left as its ideas became more accepted in European society and socialist ideas crystallized. Even then the impulses and attitudes represented the French aristocracy never entirely disappeared until after WWII and the right-wing parties of France, Germany, the UK, Canada, etc. never wholly adopted neo-liberal economics and ideas of small government that have characterized the American right until the 1970s. (And not even the same extent, but as a basic platform and set ideological principles, certainly.)

I wonder, if people actually knew the origins of the Left-Right political spectrum, would they be so incautious in their misuse of it?

Edit - Post Script: I'm not really satisfied with this, but I'll make an addendum as no one has responded yet and I don't want to be seen as thread-bumping: how can 'the Left' can be considered a philosophy when it's just a designator on a scale for political ideas associated with the 'new' and innovative as opposed to ones associated with tradition or some pre-established forms? And even then what fits in those categories is agreed upon by convention and varies across time and place, as the very origins and current use of the scale demonstrate.


What this means to Americans is not an question I can answer, but to an outsider it seems that in some cases, either side thinks that the other is far more on the extreme then they actually are. Therefore the Right fell that all politics on the Left is the politics of communism, whereas the Left feel that the Right is the politics of facism. The truth is actually that whilst some people run up and down the political spectrum, most actually hover fairly close to the centre.


On the last sentence, I agree. Even when guys like Robespierre, Lenin, and Hitler take control it's usually because they are able to exploit moments of crisis to leverage themselves into power. Even Hitler needed to make an alliance with Germany's centre-right parties of the time to get into power.

The other part...I haven't seen that so much from the American "left" myself (to the extent that America has a strongly articulated "left") though it doesn't help that in my experience while I have encountered some intractable types on the American left, they are far overshadowed by the extreme rhetoric I've seen from the right. And that's not even the fringe, but the Republican party and the base of supporters and pundits surrounding it. Dan Savage is the only relatively prominent commentator I can name on the left-side spectrum that approaches the tenor Michael Savage, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Michelle Malkin, Limbaugh, Jonah Goldberg, and John Derbyshire. Granted the wholesale of defense of Bush's authoritarianism doesn't help either.

[thehod]

I wouldn't characterize the men who sat on the left hand side of the Legislative Assembly of 1791 as "commoners". In fact the vast majority of the assembly were of the middle class (which was hardly the majority in French society at that point), with a few noblemen and clergy, The Girondists and Montagards (who later furnished the authoritarian wing of the Revolution popularly known as the "Jacobins") were largely composed of men from that strata.

Well, I did say it was simplistic. :wink:

[Reptisaurus!]

I covered the Green Lantern panel at Wizard World Chicago last year for CBR. Geoff Johns was supposed to be there but didn't make it. Van Sciver (and the editors) did a pretty swell job answering questions and keeping the crowd entertained.

Honestly, none of the books he's drawn recently have been my cuppa, but I totally had fun watching the GL team talk, even though I don't have much interest in the book. He's really a quite good public speaker.

[mgs]

Let's see if it can be done!

RE-introducing Mermaid, SunshineGirl, DoctorDoom, and Sabrinaset ... The Blonde Lantern Corps!

So, does the Blonde Lantern Corps have sleepovers where they wrestle together in their underwear? :smile:

Officially derailed! :wink:

[Spackling Compound]

So, does the Blonde Lantern Corps have sleepovers where they wrestle together in their underwear? :smile:

Officially derailed! :wink:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EXopv5BJbnY/SgJkFK24klI/AAAAAAAAAEM/MMTdc_g6pks/s400/fat-girls.jpg

and killed!

[ponset]

Ethan is a BIG Doris Day Fan.
That makes him OK in my Book.

"QUE SERA, SERA"

[the4thpip]

Ethan is a BIG Doris Day Fan.
That makes him OK in my Book.

"QUE SERA, SERA"

That explains why he is not opposed to gay marriage then. :biggrin:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Ethan liked old ECW.....so thats a WIN BABY. Not only does he kick the ass at drawing awesome. Now he likes EXTREME CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING !

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/Fred1000_photo/ecw.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f60/Bruiser138/ecw/ecw-2.jpg



ECW Tribute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBpqXf0j

[40footwolf]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EXopv5BJbnY/SgJkFK24klI/AAAAAAAAAEM/MMTdc_g6pks/s400/fat-girls.jpg

and killed!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[mikekerr3]

That hasn't been happening in the last three decades. The main difference is, for most americans, social policy. Republicans also seem to want to spend less on social services and infrastructure but more on the military, whilst democrats tend to want to spend more on social services and infrastructure and less on the military. Republicans tend to push for the influence of religion in government (whilst being unable to quote from their own texts), whilst Democrats tend to not want that, though there's been some caving in the last decade or so.

More corporate regulation seems to be a democrat thing, and the republican party switches (edit-- shifts, rather) the other way.

Libertarians and some republicans tend to prefer a laissez-faire approach to the economy and very little spending on social services at all. So far as I can tell, as of right now, republicans who would prefer that religion stay out of politics are a minority.

The problem with right/left in the US is that the right has pretty much cut out conservatives who are mostly so for fiscal and not religious grounds, whilst the left has cut out folks pushing for progress on social issues, single-payer healthcare, etc. There is NO far or even seriously left of center party in the US that has any kind of power in politics; there is no equivalent to, say, the NDP here.

If the republican party could break with the religious fundamentalists, they might get more traction with centrists and even some liberals, but given the out of control costs of healthcare, I don't know. The current system is not working.


I think that there is also a very simple difference: Republicans tend to want the government to control more of the bedroom and Democrats want the government to control more of the boardroom

[Sabrinaset]

They have a weakness for GREEN -- greenbacks, that is. :biggrin:

Shh! SHHH!!!


The counterparts for the GLs are the Sinestro Corps.
Who are the counterparts for The Blonde Lanterns?

The Sith Lords ... but we always whip their @$$es!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f336/sabrinaset/CarthToons/Carthtoon10.jpg

[Major Comma]

Bree,
I REALLY needed that laugh today .
THANK YOU!
LONG LIVE THE BLONDE LANTERN CORPS!

[mgs]

and killed!
still hot!


what??? :tongue: