So, Healthcare

[TCJohnson]

So...what do people think about the healthcare debate going on?

[Charles RB]

I think it's mental that a large number of the protestors against reform are on Medicare or similar programs.

[K-DoG7p7]

I think it's mental that a large number of the protestors against reform are on Medicare or similar programs.

Its like jon stewart said
How the hell did the GOP get so many people to vote against their own interests

[macul]

So...what do people think about the healthcare debate going on?

Typical stupid shallow politics. If you are for Obama's plan then you are characterized as a tried and true socialist out to tax everyone in to oblivion. If you are against Obama's plan then you are a greedy uncaring bastard. Cause there just couldn't possibly be middle ground, right?

[Corrina]

Well, right now, they're haggling over the specifics of the plan so it's hard to get behind when it's so amorphous.

But the system is broken. I've just been waiting to see what they do to fix it. I figure increments. We'll get something now, something later.

Or not.

The protesters have every right to protest. And I have every right to call them stupid or ignorant.

[Aspield]

The system is currently nearly nonexistent (at the mercy of employers who choose a competitive package is NOT a system, it's often a personal choice). And because of the current economy (no matter what MSNBC says, the recession is still affecting people's jobs), many companies are switching employees to freelancers so they won't have to cover medical/dental/visual/vacation/sick days, thereby saving money but screwing the staff.

One of my best friends is an Ob/Gyn and he's already seen a sharp decline in women who come in for prenatal care because they no longer have health insurance that covers it.

Is the healthcare package "good"? I'm not sure. It seems pretty tame, especially to provoke such bizarrely fierce reactions from the right wing.

But I guess it's like Corrina says:
The protesters have every right to protest. And I have every right to call them stupid or ignorant.

I'm with her on that!

[AllisterH]

I don't think Americans will ever have a public health system....

Americans are too highly attached to the concept of "government is incompetent/evil" to give a public healthcare system a fair shake.

[Sean Walsh]

Typical stupid shallow politics. If you are for Obama's plan then you are characterized as a tried and true socialist out to tax everyone in to oblivion. If you are against Obama's plan then you are a greedy uncaring bastard. Cause there just couldn't possibly be middle ground, right?

This "middle ground" you speak of was blown up by planes on 9/11, I thought. :eek:

[Calybos]

I think we need a single-payer system, and we're never gonna get one because the healthcare industry has very, very effective lobbyists and marketers hard at work to prevent it.


.

[Kevinroc]

I don't think Americans will ever have a public health system....

Americans are too highly attached to the concept of "government is incompetent/evil" to give a public healthcare system a fair shake.

I think we need a single-payer system, and we're never gonna get one because the healthcare industry has very, very effective lobbyists and marketers hard at work to prevent it.


These two statements are rather sad but true. The healthcare industry has some very effective marketers that run on the "government is incompetent/ evil" campaign to convince ignorent people that the government wants the senior citizens to die and all sorts of other strange statements that these idiot protestors are saying.

[Corrina]

Those who are afraid of government "bureaucrats" running our healthcare system don't realize that bureacrats ALREADY RUN THE SYSTEM.

And their job isn't to make sure you get proper care.

Their job is to MAKE MONEY.

Do I think gov't run healthcare would have problems? Sure. But right now, healthcare is a for-profit business that really doesn't give a damn about the patient. We're at the worst case scenario now. We rank #37 in health care in the world. Bureaucrats who want to make money call the shots constantly.

Go us.

Anyway, we're not getting a single payer system. We're getting a mish-mosh but I'm hopeful that this will at least be a first step.

The healthcare system now is killing the economy. It's killing business because they can't afford the employee benefits. It's killing banks because of bankruptcies from health care costs.

But, hey, let's keep it the same. See if it gets better. Wait, we did when Clinton tried to fix this. Oo...big improvement in twenty years, eh?

[Bergman]

Thom Hartmann (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBog1R0i_Ag) lays out what's wrong with the US health care system.

[TCJohnson]

Those who are afraid of government "bureaucrats" running our healthcare system don't realize that bureacrats ALREADY RUN THE SYSTEM.

And their job isn't to make sure you get proper care.

Their job is to MAKE MONEY.

Do I think gov't run healthcare would have problems? Sure. But right now, healthcare is a for-profit business that really doesn't give a damn about the patient. We're at the worst case scenario now. We rank #37 in health care in the world. Bureaucrats who want to make money call the shots constantly.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

But right now, there is so much mis information and anger going on out there, I am not sure if it would work.

[Khellendros]

So...what do people think about the healthcare debate going on?The debate is pretty asinine on both sides. I have to say, though, that I hate about 85% of what I hear about the current plan(s). I can't help thinking there HAS to be a better way than coming to a place where private business must compete against the government.

[TCJohnson]

The debate is pretty asinine on both sides. I have to say, though, that I hate about 85% of what I hear about the current plan(s). I can't help thinking there HAS to be a better way than coming to a place where private business must compete against the government.

But are you sure what you are hearing is accurate? There is a lot of mis information going on.

For example, people are saying (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2300451/posts)that on page 354, special need individuals will be exempt from health care.

But if you actually read it, it says:

SEC. 1176. LIMITATION ON ENROLLMENT OUTSIDE OPEN
15 ENROLLMENT PERIOD OF INDIVIDUALS INTO
16 CHRONIC CARE SPECIALIZED MA PLANS FOR
17 SPECIAL NEEDS INDIVIDUALS.U.S.C. 1395w–28(f)(4)) is amended by adding at the end
20 the following new subparagraph:
21 ‘‘(C) The plan does not enroll an individual
22 on or after January 1, 2011, other than during
23 an annual, coordinated open enrollment period
24 or when at the time of the diagnosis of the dis
25 ease or condition that qualifies the individual as
1 an individual described in subsection
2 (b)(6)(B)(iii).’’.

Which means you can only changes to your health insurance during a certain time of year unless the doctor says you have special needs, in which case you can change your health insurance whenever you want. Which is, by the way, the current law for private insurance companies.

[Charles RB]

The Comm forum has this bit of utter brilliance: (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019423.php)

Over the last few days, a conservative activist in St. Louis named Kenneth Gladney seems to have become something of a cause celebre in far-right circles. Depending on which version of events you choose to believe, Gladney either initiated or was involved in a scuffle at a town-hall event late last week

...

Yesterday, about 200 conservative activists held a protest outside the SEIU office in St. Louis. Gladney was there -- bandaged and in a wheelchair -- as a featured guest. Some of the activists held signs that read, "Don't Tread on Kenny." Reader R.D. alerted me to this tidbit in the local news account of the protest:

Gladney did not address Saturday's crowd of about 200 people. His attorney, David Brown, however, read a prepared statement Gladney wrote... Brown finished by telling the crowd that Gladney is accepting donations toward his medical expenses. Gladney told reporters he was recently laid off and has no health insurance. [emphasis added]

Wait, the conservative opponent of health care reform, fighting (literally) to defeat a plan that would bring coverage to those who lose their jobs, lost his coverage because he got laid off?

I'm not in a position to say whether Gladney sustained genuine injuries or whether he's exaggerating for 15 minutes of Fox News fame and a lucrative out-of-court settlement.

Either way, the new right-wing cause celebre needs to take up a collection to pay for his medical bills because he doesn't have health insurance. It's a fascinating sign of the times.

America! You make me feel good about UK politics up to and including the discourse in Northern Ireland and that should not be.

[jesse_custer]

It's a fucking shame that a debate has to take place.

[Corrina]

Excellent blog on healthcare and death panels.

http://sobeale.blogspot.com/2009/08/dont-talk-to-me-about-death-panels.html

Yeah, death panels. They exist already. Under our system.

[Charles RB]

Yeah, death panels. They exist already. Under our system.

But not for Palin, I assume, due to $$$$s.

[Corrina]

Well, now she has money, I imagine or access to it.

Before, well, state officials are usually covered by govt health care plans. Just like she would have been had she been Vice President.

Just like all the members of Congress are.

[kingdom2000]

Well, now she has money, I imagine or access to it.

Before, well, state officials are usually covered by govt health care plans. Just like she would have been had she been Vice President.

Just like all the members of Congress are.

My mom worked for the government all her life and part of the reason the politicians and the old farts are all "pff nothing needs to be fixed" is the government healthcare plans are absolutely awesome. It is a true marketplace with the biggest issue being to many options, all having excellent coverage at excellent prices. I pay twice as much as her for about 2/3rds the coverage as an example and we are with the same insurance company.

Its just something no one is discussing is of course the talking heads don't see a problem, they a) have the money to pay for healthcare and b) have access to some of the best in the country. If like me (and many others) where their work goes with the lowest bidder that is take it or leave it or told "we don't have insurance you have to get your own" but being unable to become of a pre-existing condition I bet you the whole lot would be singing a much different tune.