Modern Classics?

[FailureByDesign]

Many people would consider All Star Superman a modern classic or even Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader.
I was just interested as to what people would considered to be their modern classic comics of recent times.
Thanks!

[Seven_Ride]

Yeah, definitely both of those. But I'd add Y the Last Man and Ex Machina. Lots of great Vertigo stuff out there. Scalped. More mainstream superhero greats would include:

Death of Captain America
Red Son
New Frontier
All-Star Superman
Green Lantern Rebirth
Batman The Black Glove
Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?

[oanswat]

Blackest night will be one
I loved the infinity quest, gauntlet and war, not so much the crusade though.
Joss whedons run on astonishing x-men was amazing
Identity Crisis was great.



Oh, and one day "ultimatum" will be seen as a fantastic piece of literature and George W. will be seen as the greatest president of all time and God will be revealed as an angry unicorn bent on revenge for mankind devouring his entire species.

[Free-Man]

I don't think it sold well in single issues, but the recent Omega the Unkown.

Ultimates and Ultimates 2.

Alias.

[Samy]

"Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes" could singlehandedly justify the entire decade even if everything else was total crap.

"Legion of Three Worlds" was a great cap-off to the COIE + IC + L3W trilogy.

How far back are we considering "recent times"?

[Munkiman]

How recent is modern?

Because you could argue that Watchmen and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns are modern classics, since even though they're more than twenty years old they did a lot to define the modern superhero genre.

But if it has to be within the last decade, let's say, then I'd say everything Seven_Ride said (except for Black Glove, since I haven't read it yet), and I'd also add 52, maybe Kingdom Come if that isn't going back too far... and All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder. :biggrin: Hey, not saying it's good, but no one can deny that it won't be forgotten for a (goddamn) long while.

[Ikonic]

Yeah, definitely both of those. But I'd add Y the Last Man and Ex Machina. Lots of great Vertigo stuff out there. Scalped. More mainstream superhero greats would include:

Death of Captain America
Red Son
New Frontier
All-Star Superman
Green Lantern Rebirth
Batman The Black Glove
Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?

I love Green Lantern but I don't no about Rebirth being a modern classic. It was great in that it started getting the GLU back in order and bringing back Hal but nothing in the form of such classic story-telling. I'd put Sinestro Corps War ahead of it.

[Samy]

Agreed on Rebirth. It was more a great fixing story than a great story in its own right.

Sinestro Corps ditched with the fixing and just told a great story of its own.

[The ?]

In no real order:

Identity Crisis (I think Meltzer gets more flack than he deserves.)
Kingdom Come
Arkham Asylum
Long Halloween (More for the artwork than the story, put down the torches, Loeb haters.)
I don't know if it's too old to be considered a modern but Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is too amazing not to be recognized.

[Ikonic]

I'd like to throw in Batman: Hush. That book had me hooked!

[RocketRaccoon]

Fables
Y: The Last Man
Preacher
Alan Moore's Swamp Thing
Bendis' Ultimate Spider-Man run
Millar/Hitch Ultimates run
Ex Machina

[theXfactor]

.Action Comics by Johns and Frank
.All-Star Superman
.John's Green Lantern
.Whedon's X-men
.Morrison's X-men
.Ultimates (1&2)
.Millar's Old Man Logan
.JMS' Thor

And I'm sure there are many others I don't remember right now.

[F1uke]

How far back? I see some Preacher (which I love) but that ended almost 9 years ago.

Seaguy

[Raker616]

GL Rebirth is definately a modern classic so is Sinestro Corps War, hell Geoff's entire GL run has been incredible and depending how BN goes the whole thing might be a classic.

[Hawkman]

Some relatively recent favorites off the top of my head: JSA: The Return of Hawkman, JSA: Black Reign, Superman: Red Son, JSA: The Liberty Files, JLA: The Nail, and Justice. Also, while probably not quite a "classic," Ben Raab and Michael Lark's Legend of the Hawkman is highly underrated.

From Marvel, nearly all of Daredevil Vol. 2 has been spectacular.

[Personamanx]

"Y: The Last Man" Is really the only "Modern Classic" from DC/Vertigo that I can say I've actually read.

[RyleKayner]

GL Rebirth is definately a modern classic so is Sinestro Corps War, hell Geoff's entire GL run has been incredible and depending how BN goes the whole thing might be a classic.

Mark my words - in 10 years from now, everyone will look back on the Hal/Johns man-love debacle as the worst thing since variant covers.

It's a classic in the same way as Loeb's Ultimates is - except Ultimates sold more books...

For my money, nothing is gonna touch All Star Supes and hopefully Morrison/Quitely's Batman and Robin.

Also consider: Shazam and the Monster Society of Evil, Waid's run on Flash, Kingdom Come and hopefully someone will finally notice how huch Dini/Nyugen rule on Detective..

[JurassicParkIsAnAwesomeMovie]

the only thing I can think of right now that hasn't been said already...

Daredevil by Bendis and Maleev

I lied someone beat me too it...sorry

[Melfice]

How far back? I see some Preacher (which I love) but that ended almost 9 years ago.

Seaguy

SEAGUY INDEED! I can't wait for the third volume to be released :biggrin:

[Seven_Ride]

Mark my words - in 10 years from now, everyone will look back on the Hal/Johns man-love debacle as the worst thing since variant covers..Or at least, a segment of super-disgruntled Kyle Rayner fans may still think that.

"Everyone" is a lot of people. They tend to have a wide range of opinions on something as subjective as entertainment. And in general success breeds fondness.

[Personamanx]

Marvel Not DC. Brian K Vaughn's "Runaways" I sure think it deserves it.

[Seven_Ride]

I love Green Lantern but I don't no about Rebirth being a modern classic.
Rebirth is a concise story about a hero's journey from death to life and revitalizing an entire mythology. It's a story about the nature of heroism, which in 2004 was practically novel.

Sinestro Corps War is a more straightforward, simpler story: A huge war with an all-star cast of villains. It's a total geekfest with lots of action. It's really good, though a bit uneven in parts, especially those not written by Johns. And it suffers from villain overload.

Comparing them is sort of like comparing the Matrix to the Matrix Reloaded. Reloaded is REALLY cool. But it's like a remake of the first film minus a lot of the drama, heart and philosophical underpinnings.

[another_version]

Robinson's Starman. Lapham's Young Liars, and most stuff from Seagle, and Wood.

[Ilash]

Uh, why is this in the DC forums? Also, how do we define modern?

Anyway, here are some of my favourites:

The Escapists
Superman: Secret Identity
I Kill Giants
Powers
Y The Last Man
All Star Superman
Transmetropolitan
Lucifer
Preacher
Fables (especially the first 50 issues)
Waid's first 50/60 issues of The Flash
JSA: Black Reign
Scalped
Batman: Ego and Other Tales
Kingdom Come
Ultimate Spider-man (well a large portion of it anyway)
Tellos
New Frontier


I could go on and on, I'm not sure where to draw the line.

[Ilash]

Rebirth is a concise story about a hero's journey from death to life and revitalizing an entire mythology. It's a story about the nature of heroism, which in 2004 was practically novel..

Oh I don't know about that. All of the stuff you mentioned were hardly novel 25 years ago, let alone 5.

I like Green Lantern a whole lot but I don't really see Rebirth as being anywhere near a classic.

[Weetomuncher]

I would add Hard Time to the list.

The tale of a teenage boy with mysterious powers in a dangerous prison is a great story.

We3 was great, the first Dan Slott She-Hulk volume was brilliant and The Monolith was one of the best short lived titles ever.

I also thought that the two Bite Club minis were classics.

[Munkiman]

Oh I don't know about that. All of the stuff you mentioned were hardly novel 25 years ago, let alone 5.

I like Green Lantern a whole lot but I don't really see Rebirth as being anywhere near a classic.
I consider something a "classic" if it's a story that will be remembered. Rebirth is a pretty major point in Hal Jordan's history.

[Ilash]

I consider something a "classic" if it's a story that will be remembered. Rebirth is a pretty major point in Hal Jordan's history.

Sure. But that's not because of the story, more because of the new status that it set up.

[Raker616]

Mark my words - in 10 years from now, everyone will look back on the Hal/Johns man-love debacle as the worst thing since variant covers.

It's a classic in the same way as Loeb's Ultimates is - except Ultimates sold more books...

Rebirth 5 years after it was released is still bringing in GL fans from everywhere and is the starting point which has taken GL to level of popularity and respect it hasn't had since the SA started.

So i'll gladly take your bet.

[Mister Blisterfists]

Green Lantern Rebirth is dreck. I wouldn't consider it a Classic, all it does is untangle some continuity.

Classics stand alone, you need to know about previous goings-on in GL for Rebirth.

[RyleKayner]

Or at least, a segment of super-disgruntled Kyle Rayner fans may still think that.

"Everyone" is a lot of people. They tend to have a wide range of opinions on something as subjective as entertainment. And in general success breeds fondness.

You're right, I'm sure there are a whole bunch of people who love variant covers, so "everyone" is a bit of a misnomer.

But if it's the same few people who will continue to insist that some fan-fiction story about a silly space cop with the personality of a block of cheddar fighting a bunch of multi-coloured emotional power rangers will stand with its head held high in the company of stories like DKR, Watchmen, Maus, Ronin, Sandman, Swamp Thing, From Hell and The Golden Age, then I shall happily continue ignoring them and their opinions.

[Jolly Mon]

...then I shall happily continue ignoring them and their opinions.

And we shall do the same for you.

[RyleKayner]

And we shall do the same for you.

It's a deal. Cheers. Back to the discussion...

[Munkiman]

Sure. But that's not because of the story, more because of the new status that it set up.

Who said it had to be a classic because of the story?

Green Lantern Rebirth is dreck. I wouldn't consider it a Classic, all it does is untangle some continuity.

Classics stand alone, you need to know about previous goings-on in GL for Rebirth.

True, I suppose it is pretty entrenched in continuity, but so are a lot of good comics. Like Crisis on Infinite Earths, for instance.

[Munkiman]

You're right, I'm sure there are a whole bunch of people who love variant covers, so "everyone" is a bit of a misnomer.

But if it's the same few people who will continue to insist that some fan-fiction story about a silly space cop with the personality of a block of cheddar fighting a bunch of multi-coloured emotional power rangers will stand with its head held high in the company of stories like DKR, Watchmen, Maus, Ronin, Sandman, Swamp Thing, From Hell and The Golden Age, then I shall happily continue ignoring them and their opinions.

You feel very strongly about this, don't you? Though you do have a point, GL Rebirth can't stand up to any of those, really. You'll note, though, how few of those are mainstream DCU comics, which is the category GL Rebirth was in.

Yeah, definitely both of those. But I'd add Y the Last Man and Ex Machina. Lots of great Vertigo stuff out there. Scalped. More mainstream superhero greats would include:

...
Green Lantern Rebirth
...

[Pksoze]

Fables: March of the Wooden Soldiers and Gepetto's reveal

Y the Last Man: The whole series is a classic

Red Son: Best Elseworlds Superman story ever imho

All Star Superman: Just a great series by Morrison

Sinestro Corps War: Is it a deep comic...no...but it was one of the most entertaining superhero epics ever. I consider it a classic in the way the Great Darkness Sago is one. It showcases the best parts of superhero fiction with unstoppable enemies and outmatched heroes. Hopefully the Blackest Night tops it.

Hulk the Last Titan: One of the greatest Hulk stories ever...it really showcases why Hulk is one of the most tragic characters in comics.

JLA: Morrisons run on the JLA...still the highlight of the JLA in my eyes.

Batman Whatever Happened to the Cape Crusader: I probably learned more and cared more about Batman in these two issues then I have during most writers runs on the character.

[Seven_Ride]

Oh I don't know about that. All of the stuff you mentioned were hardly novel 25 years ago, let alone 5.

I like Green Lantern a whole lot but I don't really see Rebirth as being anywhere near a classic.
We're not really talking about the same thing, then. Telling stories about superheroes fighting bad guys is commonplace. What I'm talking about is a story that examines valor and heroism without deconstruction and cynicism.

THAT has become all too rare. GL Rebirth and perhaps more New Frontier were shots across the bow saying, Here are unapologetically larger than life - DC - heroes minus the faux-realism, angst and cynicism, winking and nudging and feet of clay.

It was a pretty ballsy move, especially given the controversial status of Green Lantern in preceding years.

[Seven_Ride]

True, I suppose it is pretty entrenched in continuity, but so are a lot of good comics.Yeah, it's based on a lot of pre-existing stories. All DC comics are to some extent. But DC selected Rebirth # 1 for their After Watchmen program because it did something very few DC books did in the preceding 5 years: It brought new readers to a book and began a franchise.

I suspect most of the people buying Green Lantern and Blackest Night started with Rebirth or the hype it built. Even just glancing at message boards, which tend to be ruled by 80s and 90s fans that need to gripe, there is a lot of evidence of new readers who got into DC via Johns' Green Lantern. Like the Marz GL of the 90s did in its day.

Pre-existing history is a GOOD thing for a new reader when it's woven into a compelling tale.

[Mister Blisterfists]

Yeah, it's based on a lot of pre-existing stories. All DC comics are to some extent. But DC selected Rebirth # 1 for their After Watchmen program because it did something very few DC books did in the preceding 5 years: It brought new readers to a book and began a franchise.



Funny.

Emerald Twilight did the same thing.

[maniacmatt]

I'd have to add Marvels, Loki, and Planet Hulk to the list. (yes I know they're Marvel, all the DC I could think of was taken). Oh, and Pretty much anything Hellboy. And I think the current Detective Comics run will be.

[Munkiman]

Funny.

Emerald Twilight did the same thing.
They both did! :smile:

[Mister Blisterfists]

I wasn't trying to be snide with that, I was simply stating a point of fact.

the counterpoint to that is, in both cases, it may prove in the long run to only be a temporary spike in sales.

GL, since the reboot has largely been event driven, I don't know how long it can sustain itself on that alone, especially considering the predicament of where to go after Blackest Night, which is pretty much the biggest thing that could ever happen to GL ever.

[Raker616]

Except for the fact that GL hasn't been event driven it's been Geoff Johns driven, SCW came out of nowhere to be a huge hit but without the backing of the DC machine to hype it up. It was something that only people reading GL had any idea was going to happen yet captured the imagination of the rest of the comic fans just like Blackest Night has.

All of it came from GL Rebirth which unlike ET didn't turn fans against each other and alienate people who've been fans for decades. It made all GL fans come together and took Hal Jordan and the GLC mythos to heights it has never been to before it. Also people need to stop with the bs about comparing other so called classic to GL, because many of the books i've seen hailed as classic I don't agree with so it's all opinions nothing more.

[Mister Blisterfists]

It's still event after event, upping the stakes each time.

I'm not talking about the annual 'events' that drive DC Sales, and involve the entire DCU on some epic earth-shattering miniseries, that crosses over into each character's own title.

I'm talking about the near complete lack of story in the GL mythos. We come off of SCW, and begin ramping up for Blackest Night. Then another, then another.

when are we gonna get some 'down to earth', less epic stuff, when are things gonna slow down a little? Oh, that's right, with GL when that happens, sales drop off. We don't want that. Not for our Golden Boy Hal "Do No Wrong" Jordan. If that happened, maybe people would realize that he's just not that interesting a character, and stop reading.

it's like Pro Wrestling. There's no in-between anymore, it's just amping up for the next Pay-Per-View, and dealing with the aftermath of the previous one. There's nothing in the middle to keep it interesting, no human drama to keep us reading. It's just one epic Maelstrom after another.

[RyleKayner]

Absolutely agree with Mister Blisterfists. A purely event-based comic which moves from one big fight to another can't by any rational means qualify as a classic.

If we consider some of the older Classics, Claremont's X-Men, Miller's Daredevil, Perez' Teen Titans; none of these were bombastic one-crossover-to-the-next books.

Which is why I think that in the long run, time will prove titles like Dini's 'Tec, Waid's Flash and Morrison/Quitely's BaR to be more Classic. They are quiet, mainstream books that add a whole new breath of dimension to the characters while telling solid, entertaining stories without resorting to flashy, lowest-common-denominator, fan-service.

[Munkiman]

It's still event after event, upping the stakes each time.

I'm not talking about the annual 'events' that drive DC Sales, and involve the entire DCU on some epic earth-shattering miniseries, that crosses over into each character's own title.

I'm talking about the near complete lack of story in the GL mythos. We come off of SCW, and begin ramping up for Blackest Night. Then another, then another.

when are we gonna get some 'down to earth', less epic stuff, when are things gonna slow down a little? Oh, that's right, with GL when that happens, sales drop off. We don't want that. Not for our Golden Boy Hal "Do No Wrong" Jordan. If that happened, maybe people would realize that he's just not that interesting a character, and stop reading.

it's like Pro Wrestling. There's no in-between anymore, it's just amping up for the next Pay-Per-View, and dealing with the aftermath of the previous one. There's nothing in the middle to keep it interesting, no human drama to keep us reading. It's just one epic Maelstrom after another.
It's possible to have "story" in large events. I've really only read Rebirth and SCW (I only started getting into comics earlier this year, so I still have a lot of catching up to do), but I find that Johns manages to find plenty of time for characterization and character development during the epic events. You can't accuse it of "lacking story" just because there's a lot of action/adventure space stuff. The word "story" does not mean "a lull in the action". Lulls in the action can be a good thing, and they do actually occur in the GL books (=O), but a greater focus is placed on the Green Lanterns out doing their job than what they do on their downtime. What's so wrong with that?

Maybe you find Hal Jordan uninteresting, which is fine, but the popularity of his book shows that people like how Johns is writing the character. Everyone's not just going to "wake up" and realize that somehow Johns has been tricking us into thinking that Hal's a good character.

I don't know about pro wrestling, but in the comics at least, isn't it possible to have human drama amidst sales-garnering events?

Absolutely agree with Mister Blisterfists. A purely event-based comic which moves from one big fight to another can't by any rational means qualify as a classic.

If we consider some of the older Classics, Claremont's X-Men, Miller's Daredevil, Perez' Teen Titans; none of these were bombastic one-crossover-to-the-next books.

Which is why I think that in the long run, time will prove titles like Dini's 'Tec, Waid's Flash and Morrison/Quitely's BaR to be more Classic. They are quiet, mainstream books that add a whole new breath of dimension to the characters while telling solid, entertaining stories without resorting to flashy, lowest-common-denominator, fan-service.
Actually, the only GL-driven company-wide crossover is Blackest Night. SCW was mostly contained within the two GL books, though it did guest-star the JLA near the end, but so did Rebirth.

[Mister Blisterfists]

You're right, people aren't going to 'wake up' and realize that Hal's not a good character.

at least not while Johns is writing it.

but the moment he moves on, and someone else takes over, and it's not as epic, people will notice. They'll blame the writer, of course, instead of the fact that Hal is a boring character, but when nobody else can do for him what Johns did (which is a lot of flash, and little substance), they'll grow tired of him, sales will slump, and DC will be right back in the same boat they've been with GL MANY times before.

[Munkiman]

Whatever you say. I personally think the whole "overcoming fear" angle could withstand the test of time, even with a more average-quality writer. But hey, we'll have to wait and see.

I mean, let's face it, most of the DC characters created in the Golden Age or Silver Age were pretty bland in terms of personality. Reimagining them is always necessary for the annoyingly quality-obsessed modern comic reader. So I don't think there's anything intrinsic about Hal Jordan that makes him always fundamentally uninteresting.

[Mister Blisterfists]

or, y'know, you could always RETIRE THEM, and let their REPLACEMENT take over.

instead of un-retiring them, and displacing their replacement.

[Munkiman]

Well, that's your opinion. I like Kyle, but I like Hal more.

[Raker616]

You're right, people aren't going to 'wake up' and realize that Hal's not a good character.

at least not while Johns is writing it.

but the moment he moves on, and someone else takes over, and it's not as epic, people will notice. They'll blame the writer, of course, instead of the fact that Hal is a boring character, but when nobody else can do for him what Johns did (which is a lot of flash, and little substance), they'll grow tired of him, sales will slump, and DC will be right back in the same boat they've been with GL MANY times before.

Gotta love the Hal haters they are always so desperate to put him down they'll make any argument regardless of how weak it is and try and pass it off as fact.

GL now has more substance that it's ever had, Flash yeah Barry Allen is going to have a nice part of the GL stories now that he's back.

Boring Hal has been around for 50 years, been replaced turned evil and killed off yet his fanbase and popularity never went anywhere. There is something about this character that people genuinely enjoy reading and regardless of DC trying to bury him for 10 years it never was able to. Keep believing whatever you want but it doesn't change the fact that Hal is an iconic character that is going to be popular after you and I are dead and really that's all that matters.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

I wasn't trying to be snide with that, I was simply stating a point of fact.

the counterpoint to that is, in both cases, it may prove in the long run to only be a temporary spike in sales.

GL, since the reboot has largely been event driven, I don't know how long it can sustain itself on that alone, especially considering the predicament of where to go after Blackest Night, which is pretty much the biggest thing that could ever happen to GL ever.

I don't think this is true at all.

To begin with, I don't think Rebirth will be considered a classic in terms of quality. It's alright, but it's definitely a means to an end and it comes off as continuity wank way too often.

But I can accept that because the end result has been an awesome run that hasn't relied on events at all.

I recently got into the series a few months ago, and the thing I loved was that it's not an event driven book. The early parts are all short arcs that tell their own stories but weave in the bigger picture throughout. It was pretty cool watching the build-up to Sinestro Corps War and Blackest Night sprinkled throughout the whole run, but those stories also stand alone.

Way too many books these days follow the 6 story trade format, where each arc is conveniently six issues and then pretty much done. There's very little if any world building going on or a concerted effort to build up groups of stories into a bigger whole. GL does that, and I enjoy it for that reason. Among other things.

[earl]

Green Lantern Rebirth was good for fixing a bunch of stupid comic book stories that probably shouldn't have been written and restoring a classic character to something usable. It is an OK read and all, but I don't think any comic that is based on the premises of that many bad stories can really be a 'classic' unless it is satire.


I think Paul Dini's one shot story featuring the Joker taking Robin for a 'joyride' was a classic issue.