WORST Joker stories?

[RubberLotus]

I've seen about a gazillion lists on what are the best Joker stories (needless to say, Killing Joke & The Dark Knight Returns top the lists 9.9 times out of 10), but what, in my fellow posters' opinions, are the worst; the bottom of the barrel; disgraces to the Clown Prince of Crime?

[Batman Fan 31593]

This is just my personal opinion, but these stores should be avoided:

Hush Returns: Batman: Gotham Knights #50-55 (Joker was involved in this story. Flashbacks in this story take some liberties with the Killing Joke)

Lovers and Madmen: Batman Confidential #7-12 (this is a retelling of Joker's origin; Killing Joke was much better)

The recent Joker storyline from Birds of Prey #120-124. (A Joker/Oracle story was already previously done (and much better) in Birds of Prey #15-17.)

[Jorriss]

Personally I thought Lovers and Madmen was better than Killing Joke but then I don't like Killing Joke.

[Retro315]

Worst Joker stories? Hmm ...... I tend to black them out. But here's a try.

Hush Returns.

That's all I've got ... and I only remember it's a bad Joker story because it's a bad Hush, bad Prometheus and bad Riddler story as well. And that bites, because if you think about it, that old-school versus new-school conflict COULD have been awesome if they didn't try to load it with The Killing Joke references.

I'm hesitant to say "Hush" as well, because even though Joker didn't have a strong presence he was at least used smartly by Hush as a huge distraction for Batman to have to deal with. But I will say that I absolutely, 100% vehemently HATE how Jim Lee draws Joker.

[Captain Jim]

I also enjoyed Lovers & Madmen.

[Damiean Dark]

Emperor Joker was one long snoozefest imo the endless possibilities with such a story are wasted and turned into run of the mill crapola.

[Maestro]

Batman: RIP...

[Eric Henson]

Batman: Joker's Last Laugh

The story was terrible and the art was extremely dissappointing.

[PaddyN]

That recent Confidential arc that had Joker kill that detectives wife, via a phonecall...

[dancj]

While not exactly the worst, I found The Joker: Devil's Advocate to be a big disappointment. Both Chuck Dixon and Graham Nolan have turned out some great work on Batman, but on this they both seemed tired and an interesting story idea seemed wasted. The only saving grace in the whole book is The Joker's confessional - that bit was great.

[n2doop5u]

Batman: Joker's Last Laugh

The story was terrible and the art was extremely dissappointing.

Seconded. It was all over the place.

[Rawlin67]

Death in the Family.

it was big because he killed a Robin, but it was the most ridiculous and absurd plot. it was generally just stupid that somehow they all magically ended up going to the same place, all for different purposes, and Robin was looking for his-wait for it-mother. who was working for-wait for it-joker.

dumb dumb dumb.

[TROUBLEZ]

Yeah, Death in the Family was silly. Frank Miller's line in DKR, "Have you forgotten what happened to Jason?" was better than all of Death in the Family.

I like how Jim Lee draws The Joker in ALL-STAR but the carrote nose version in HUSH made me dislike that particular issue. The Joker's dialogue was pretty weak too.

[Retro315]

Emperor Joker was one long snoozefest imo the endless possibilities with such a story are wasted and turned into run of the mill crapola.

Especially when a similar story was done well back in DC Comics Presents # 72 - Superman teamed up with the Joker at the request of Phantom Stranger to battle a recurring villain in "Presents", and Joker's madness gave him access to manipulate the fabric of an entire chaotic universe (but all it took was Superman defeating the entity and Phantom Stranger's shadowy knowledge that it would work out to prevent Joker from winning the day).

Last Laugh isn't that great, either. The "toxin" is the star of that story, not really Joker himself. Want to see every DC c-list villain Jokerized? Yeah ... me either.

[Shush]

Last laugh and emperor joker were both pretty dire.

[Sean Walsh]

Batman: Joker's Last Laugh

The story was terrible and the art was extremely dissappointing.

I can't believe they did an event miniseries with different artists on almost every issue. :confused: We got Pete Woods for like an issue, I recall him being the best artist involved with that series.

A lot of the Batman art from the late 1990's and early 2000's looks awful nowadays. For some reason it looked fine back then, but looking back on it the art was terribly suited for Batman comics.

[JesseG.]

I shouldn't even post this comment because I didn't read all of it, but the first issue of the recent Kevin Smith Batman miniseries I recall had some really horrible Joker moments, plus the art was pretty shoddy.

[Syrant]

I shouldn't even post this comment because I didn't read all of it, but the first issue of the recent Kevin Smith Batman miniseries I recall had some really horrible Joker moments, plus the art was pretty shoddy.
All I remember is that in the other issues, Batman calls Joker predictable and pathetic, Joker gets stabbed, goes sane, grows a beard, then everything goes back to normal.

It...it was a weird one.

[Captain Jim]

Batman: Joker's Last Laugh

The story was terrible and the art was extremely dissappointing.

We've been through this many times before, but I strongly disagree.

Read Part 1 of the story which actually appeared in Secret Files.
Read the other parts of the actual mini-series.
Read Dixon's other books: Nightwing, Robin, BOP.
Read nothing else.

And you get a pretty good story, IMO.

[jgiannantoni05]

Hush Returns: Batman: Gotham Knights #50-55 (Joker was involved in this story. Flashbacks in this story take some liberties with the Killing Joke)

Lovers and Madmen: Batman Confidential #7-12 (this is a retelling of Joker's origin; Killing Joke was much better)

I agree. I especially hated Lovers and Madmen; its conception of Batman was out of character (especially the Batman ordering mob hit on Joker part), and its conception of Joker's origin was non-traditional (no Red Hood) and trite. The writing was painful at times (words like awkward and forced spring to mind). IMHO Michael Green is very green when it comes to understanding DC's big characters.

[Jorriss]

and its conception of Joker's origin was non-traditional (no Red Hood) and trite.
I'll give you Batman ordering the hit was an ill placed decision, but whats wrong with changing tradition? I thought they pulled off the Joker portion nicely without the Red Hood, better than Killing Joke.

[jgiannantoni05]

but whats wrong with changing tradition?
Not always wrong. But wrong here, wrong when changing a big detail of a big character's origin, when the original origin was done by Batman and Joker's very (co-)creator, Bill Finger. The biggest thing about Bill Finger's Joker origin in Tec 168, about the only thing we definitively knew about Joker, was that he was the Red Hood. IMHO that important detail from Joker's creator must stay.

[Jorriss]

Not always wrong. But wrong here, wrong when changing a big detail of a big character's origin, when the original origin was done by Batman and Joker's very (co-)creator, Bill Finger. The biggest thing about Bill Finger's Joker origin in Tec 168, about the only thing we definitively knew about Joker, was that he was the Red Hood. IMHO that important detail from Joker's creator must stay.
I can appreciate the idea but I must disagree. Particularly, I find it irrelevant personally what the creator did. Look at the original incarnation of any hero, they are almost unrecognizable to their modern version.

But mostly, I just thought the way it was done worked. From my perspective, you can make the Joker's skin normal with no smile and if it works, I'm cool.

But I see your view and it seems to just be a difference of opinion.

[dancj]

Emperor Joker was one long snoozefest imo the endless possibilities with such a story are wasted and turned into run of the mill crapola.
Yeah - That bored me silly
Not always wrong. But wrong here, wrong when changing a big detail of a big character's origin, when the original origin was done by Batman and Joker's very (co-)creator, Bill Finger. The biggest thing about Bill Finger's Joker origin in Tec 168, about the only thing we definitively knew about Joker, was that he was the Red Hood. IMHO that important detail from Joker's creator must stay.
In this case I'd say it's not important at all. The Joker stories pretty much never reference his origin. How he came to be is pretty unimportant. All that matters is how he is now.

[Sean Walsh]

We've been through this many times before, but I strongly disagree.

Read Part 1 of the story which actually appeared in Secret Files.
Read the other parts of the actual mini-series.
Read Dixon's other books: Nightwing, Robin, BOP.
Read nothing else.

And you get a pretty good story, IMO.

Just don't read the TPB, which DC decided (even with Dixon contacting DC to remind them) to publish without Part 1.

[jgiannantoni05]

The Joker stories pretty much never reference his origin. How he came to be is pretty unimportant. All that matters is how he is now.
Not true. Joker briefly put on his Red Hood outfit after Death in the Family. Batman knows/suspects that Joker was one of many men who wore the Red Hood outfit. So again, the one big thing we know about Joker, The Red Hood, is referenced and is somewhat important.

[RubberLotus]

Not true. Joker briefly put on his Red Hood outfit after Death in the Family. Batman knows/suspects that Joker was one of many men who wore the Red Hood outfit. So again, the one big thing we know about Joker, The Red Hood, is referenced and is somewhat important.

I really don't see what's so important about the "Red Hood" thing. The DCAU skipped it entirely, and their Joker worked out just fine.

[FanboyStranger]

We've been through this many times before, but I strongly disagree.

Read Part 1 of the story which actually appeared in Secret Files.
Read the other parts of the actual mini-series.
Read Dixon's other books: Nightwing, Robin, BOP.
Read nothing else.

And you get a pretty good story, IMO.

Best part of the whole crossover was Walt Simonson's Orion issue which features a "Joker-ized" Slig transmuting sharks into "Joker-ized" sharks.

[jgiannantoni05]

I really don't see what's so important about the "Red Hood" thing. The DCAU skipped it entirely, and their Joker worked out just fine.
Well, the DCAU is not the comics, where Batman started in 1939 by Finger and Kane. I loved the Dini/Timmverse, but they could do what they want, and I wouldn't care much because it wasn't the comics, it was its own thing. If you don't find the Red Hood thing important, then ok, that's what you think, you're entitled to that opinion. My opinion is that the Red Hood thing is important because Joker's creator Bill Finger made it the one thing we truly know about The Joker. I think some respect for what Finger wrote for his own character should be maintained in the very comic series co-started by Finger. I think creator's intent is an important consideration for a character (not the only consideration though). I don't buy the argument that because many characters today differ in some aspects from the creator's writings/intent, that creator intent should mean absolutely nothing and can be freely ignored.

[Avenger08]

Although it wasnt specifically focused on the joker, Batman: RIP. GOD AWFUL

[Blight]

We've been through this many times before, but I strongly disagree.

Read Part 1 of the story which actually appeared in Secret Files.
Read the other parts of the actual mini-series.
Read Dixon's other books: Nightwing, Robin, BOP.
Read nothing else.

And you get a pretty good story, IMO.

Yeah, plus:


http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4779/lastlaughyf0.jpg

[NewMutant]

Batman: Joker's Last Laugh

The story was terrible and the art was extremely dissappointing.

Agreed. I bought the TPB and returned it. The premise was good, but it wasn't fleshed out enough, at least in the tpb. It focused on random people I didn't care about. The last issue or two with the Bat-Family involved were good.

[Mr Derp]

Wouldn't "Joker's Comedy of Errors" be the best of the worst, with all the boner talk and all

[OverMaster]

Wouldn't "Joker's Comedy of Errors" be the best of the worst, with all the boner talk and allIf we are counting Silver Age stories, the 'Joker: Thief of Baghdad' story would be one of the definitive worsts, even if it doesn't feature the 'actual' Silver Age Joker but a lookalike. God, even for SA standards, that one was really lame.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Kevin Smith's recent Batman: Cacophony was pretty bad. Only made worse by having his friend draw it.

[Major Comma]

Joker#7 The Joker and Lex Luthor switched personalities.
A sane Joker just isnt funny.

[pariah-1972]

Hush Returns was probably the most out of character moment for Joker i have ever seen it's almost as if the man was purposely trying to make him seem sane for no apparent reason.

I mean hell even Jeph Loeb can get him down right it's not that hard.

[RubberLotus]

Hush Returns was probably the most out of character moment for Joker i have ever seen it's almost as if the man was purposely trying to make him seem sane for no apparent reason.

I mean hell even Jeph Loeb can get him down right it's not that hard.

I actually have to disagree there. IMHO, The Joker strikes me as a particularly unforgiving character to write, especially in stories where he's not the star. Either one writes the character really, really well, or really, really crappily. The "middle ground" stories typically have heavily-divided opinions.

Loeb's Joker, while entertaining in his own way, struck me as little more than a two-bit thug waving around a gun and spouting off pop culture quotes.

[pariah-1972]

I actually have to disagree there. IMHO, The Joker strikes me as a particularly unforgiving character to write, especially in stories where he's not the star. Either one writes the character really, really well, or really, really crappily. The "middle ground" stories typically have heavily-divided opinions.

Loeb's Joker, while entertaining in his own way, struck me as little more than a two-bit thug waving around a gun and spouting off pop culture quotes See there's the problem when people try to make him a deep tortured character.

[Bergman]

We've been through this many times before, but I strongly disagree.

Read Part 1 of the story which actually appeared in Secret Files.
Read the other parts of the actual mini-series.
Read Dixon's other books: Nightwing, Robin, BOP.
Read nothing else.

And you get a pretty good story, IMO.

Sorry Jim, but no you won't.

[jgiannantoni05]

Joker#7 The Joker and Lex Luthor switched personalities.
A sane Joker just isnt funny.
Was kinda the whole point.

I loved this little pre-Crisis issue. Was fun. And was one of the earliest issues to suggest that Joker's madness was actually a form of super-sanity genius, that even Lex envied.

[ChairthrowerLad]

Hush Returns: Batman: Gotham Knights #50-55 (Joker was involved in this story. Flashbacks in this story take some liberties with the Killing Joke)

Lovers and Madmen: Batman Confidential #7-12 (this is a retelling of Joker's origin; Killing Joke was much better)



Quoted for truth.

1. Lieberman is so bad
2. Lovers and Madmen was so unnecessary.

[dancj]

Not true. Joker briefly put on his Red Hood outfit after Death in the Family. Batman knows/suspects that Joker was one of many men who wore the Red Hood outfit. So again, the one big thing we know about Joker, The Red Hood, is referenced and is somewhat important.
I'd forgotten that, but then it was something like 20 years ago.

Batman might know it, but how often is it actually referenced?

[Captain Jim]

Sorry Jim, but no you won't.

I said "in my opinion." And my opinion is just as valid as yours or anybody else's. (And that's all it comes down to, a matter of opinion.)

[ScottyQuick]

I said "in my opinion." And my opinion is just as valid as yours or anybody else's. (And that's all it comes down to, a matter of opinion.)

Well, yes, it's also pretty clear that Bergman is speaking in his opinion. That's not the kind of thing you need to qualify (OR IS IT?) with an IMO.

[Batman Fan 31593]

I really don't see what's so important about the "Red Hood" thing. The DCAU skipped it entirely, and their Joker worked out just fine.

Here is the DCAU origin of the Joker for those interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBUc0fWjkYs

[Retro315]

Here is the DCAU origin of the Joker for those interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBUc0fWjkYs

They did indeed.

My favorite Joker origin is "Case Study" by Paul Dini and Alex Ross. Apart from the stellar art, it takes the whole "Red Hood" aspect of Joker in stride as just a small caper in a massive repertoire of gutsy moves in the criminal underworld (it just happened to be the last one before his accident).

It also marries the kind of no-named gunmen of DCAU (which was actually a way smoother adaptation of the '89 Batman Joker origin) with the classic comics gag, and puts a nice bow on it by having the whole thing be discussed in the form of Joker's psyche profile and where his head was at when he was running those jobs (then the validity of the entire line of speculation is thrown out when they realize that the Case Study was that of Harley Quinn, unlabeled).

I go with The Killing Joke (purely because it stays vague), though - but at the same time, I think ... Joker is way too cunning of a bastard to have been working dead-end chemist jobs and doing bad stand-up comedy. Going crazy doesn't make you smarter, and it can't have all been in the confidence boost that comes with losing all inhibitions.

That being said, while I'm not wild about Lovers & Madmen, I actually do really, really like the pre-Joker career he had as a bored, uninterested, so-talented-that-it's-not-fun-anymore safe-cracker and hired gun.

I could definitely buy that as his motivation for "spicing things up" and putting together his absurd "Red Hood" gimmick.

[Captain Jim]

Well, yes, it's also pretty clear that Bergman is speaking in his opinion. That's not the kind of thing you need to qualify (OR IS IT?) with an IMO.

He didn't say he disagreed with me; he said I was wrong.

[Lew Moxon]

They did indeed.

My favorite Joker origin is "Case Study" by Paul Dini and Alex Ross. Apart from the stellar art, it takes the whole "Red Hood" aspect of Joker in stride as just a small caper in a massive repertoire of gutsy moves in the criminal underworld (it just happened to be the last one before his accident).

It also marries the kind of no-named gunmen of DCAU (which was actually a way smoother adaptation of the '89 Batman Joker origin) with the classic comics gag, and puts a nice bow on it by having the whole thing be discussed in the form of Joker's psyche profile and where his head was at when he was running those jobs (then the validity of the entire line of speculation is thrown out when they realize that the Case Study was that of Harley Quinn, unlabeled).

I go with The Killing Joke (purely because it stays vague), though - but at the same time, I think ... Joker is way too cunning of a bastard to have been working dead-end chemist jobs and doing bad stand-up comedy. Going crazy doesn't make you smarter, and it can't have all been in the confidence boost that comes with losing all inhibitions.

That being said, while I'm not wild about Lovers & Madmen, I actually do really, really like the pre-Joker career he had as a bored, uninterested, so-talented-that-it's-not-fun-anymore safe-cracker and hired gun.

I could definitely buy that as his motivation for "spicing things up" and putting together his absurd "Red Hood" gimmick.

"Case Study is pretty much what got me into comics, so I have a lot of love for it. I think the Killing Joke is wonderfully written, but that the important thing about the story isn't what protoJoker was up to before the robbery, the point of the story is that he had a horrible day and consequently see's the world as a demented joke, with anarchic violence being as acceptable a reaction as any other.

The thing about Case Study though, is that his actions prior to the event, seem to be so quintessential Joker things.

The Tommy Doyle situations defines his sense of humor for me. "It was a pretty good joke-if it didn't happen to you."

[pariah-1972]

I found a bronze age Joker mini series and the first issue he kidnapped Black Canary cause he had a crush on her:confused: probably not one of the worst but it was a little out of character for him (maybe it's mostly cause i have seen him as asexual)

[dupersuper]

I actually found Emporor Joker rather fun; not a great JOKER story, but a good STORY. I did find Last Laugh very lame though (sorry Jim).

[OverMaster]

I actually found Emporor Joker rather fun; not a great JOKER story, but a good STORY.

Emperor Joker is worthy by the visuals alone, and for the small touches that show an imagination and wit rarely seen in Superman arcs.

Joker's final act of mercy towards Harley (and his prior speech about being tired of it all now that he couldn't top himself). The many, many, many deaths of the Batman. J'onn J'onnz, the Marvin the Martian Manhunter. Earth is a frickin' huge cube with Joker faces all over it. Poker with dead Jason Todd. The Spectre in a birdcage. The Quintassence playing 'Whazzap!'. Just a fun romp from start to finish.

[worstblogever]

Worst Joker stories? Hmm ...... I tend to black them out. But here's a try.

Hush Returns.

That's all I've got ... and I only remember it's a bad Joker story because it's a bad Hush, bad Prometheus and bad Riddler story as well. And that bites, because if you think about it, that old-school versus new-school conflict COULD have been awesome if they didn't try to load it with The Killing Joke references.

I'm hesitant to say "Hush" as well, because even though Joker didn't have a strong presence he was at least used smartly by Hush as a huge distraction for Batman to have to deal with. But I will say that I absolutely, 100% vehemently HATE how Jim Lee draws Joker.

Batman: Joker's Last Laugh

The story was terrible and the art was extremely dissappointing.


Well said on both counts. Was the time he went into the Lazarus Pit "The Demon Laughs"? That was pretty weak, as well.

[Captain Jim]

I actually found Emporor Joker rather fun; not a great JOKER story, but a good STORY. I did find Last Laugh very lame though (sorry Jim).

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. Did you read the whole thing? Secret Files, actual series & BOP, Nightwing and Robin?

[dupersuper]

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion. Did you read the whole thing? Secret Files, actual series & BOP, Nightwing and Robin?

I read the mini and the secret files, but I do admit I didn't get the BOP, Robin and Nightwing issues. The only crossover issues I got were Superman, Adventures, Action, Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Justice League, Young Justice, Supergirl and Superboy, as I'm a hopeless Superman devotee who was getting those anyway.

[RubberLotus]

I read the mini and the secret files, but I do admit I didn't get the BOP, Robin and Nightwing issues. The only crossover issues I got were Superman, Adventures, Action, Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Justice League, Young Justice, Supergirl and Superboy, as I'm a hopeless Superman devotee who was getting those anyway.

I'm pretty sure that one of these issues was the one where DOOMSDAY is Jokerized.

That pretty much ruins the entire story.

[thedevilsadvocate]

I actually liked Hush returns! I don't care what you all say!:P

HATED Emperor Joker and Lovers and Madmen. What a snore indeed.

I also find Mad Love a tad overrated as well.

Okay, throw the tomatoes! :lol

[Captain Jim]

I read the mini and the secret files, but I do admit I didn't get the BOP, Robin and Nightwing issues. The only crossover issues I got were Superman, Adventures, Action, Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Justice League, Young Justice, Supergirl and Superboy, as I'm a hopeless Superman devotee who was getting those anyway.

Part of the problem with the original release is that Secret Files (which contains part one of the story) was released the week after LL#1 (which contains part two of the story). The other Dixon books may not be essential, but they do fill in some of the gaps in the storyline. The other LL "tie-ins" may or may not be good stories, but none of them really relate directly to the main storyline. In fact, several months after this all ended, more than one "tie-in" writer admitted that they had no idea what LL was about when they penned their "tie-in."

[dancj]

I also find Mad Love a tad overrated as well.

Okay, throw the tomatoes! :lol
Yeah I found Mad Love pretty boring too - but then that's my experience of everything written by Paul Dini.

[dupersuper]

Part of the problem with the original release is that Secret Files (which contains part one of the story) was released the week after LL#1 (which contains part two of the story). The other Dixon books may not be essential, but they do fill in some of the gaps in the storyline. The other LL "tie-ins" may or may not be good stories, but none of them really relate directly to the main storyline. In fact, several months after this all ended, more than one "tie-in" writer admitted that they had no idea what LL was about when they penned their "tie-in."

I'm aware the Superbooks weren't important to the main story; like I said, I just always get them (see my sig :smile: ); some were cool, some did indeed have jokerized Doomsdays, and I'm willing to believe it's better with the other Dixon issues (I've never considered Dixon Gaiman/Moore/Waid/Morrison brillant supercool awesome, but I find him solid)...I can't see them lifting the whole thing above "meh..." for me though...

[Theophilus]

I actually found Emporor Joker rather fun; not a great JOKER story, but a good STORY. I did find Last Laugh very lame though (sorry Jim).

I enjoyed Emperor Joker quite a bit.

Last Laugh was good as well, particuarly the poetic ending where they shut the cameras off and Joker lost his audience. And the Nightwing subplot was fantastic.

[Schornforce]

I actually found Emporor Joker rather fun; not a great JOKER story, but a good STORY. I did find Last Laugh very lame though (sorry Jim).

Emperor Joker is worthy by the visuals alone, and for the small touches that show an imagination and wit rarely seen in Superman arcs.

Joker's final act of mercy towards Harley (and his prior speech about being tired of it all now that he couldn't top himself). The many, many, many deaths of the Batman. J'onn J'onnz, the Marvin the Martian Manhunter. Earth is a frickin' huge cube with Joker faces all over it. Poker with dead Jason Todd. The Spectre in a birdcage. The Quintassence playing 'Whazzap!'. Just a fun romp from start to finish.

I thought Emporer Joker was a great little story and loved it because it was a fun story and when I was reading it in monthlies format, the reveal of The Joker being behind everything was a surprise and a great one (for me, at least) at that.

I detested Hush Returns and was disappointed in 'Last Laugh.'

[4thHorseman]

I tried reading It's Joker Time and found it dull and terrible all around. Think that's what it was called.