Phoenix: The Untold Story

[westcoast]

Hi X-Fans:

I was interested in the original editorial uproar over Jean Grey's death in Uncanny 137, so I bought a copy of Phoenix: The Untold Story on ebay to read Claremont and Byrne's original "censored" ending and "The Dark Phoenix Tapes" feature with the transcript of the roundtable discussion with Claremont, Byrne, Jim Shooter, etc.

This was great to read, though Shooter's comments surprised me, especially his comment: "Until now, it never occurred to me that it might have been a possession. I don't know if anybody ever mentioned it back then, but I believe this is the first time I heard or thought of that."

Um, what the hell? Considering that Byrne and several others in the discussion talked about how they believed Jean herself had not turned evil, but that she had been possessed by an evil entity (ie, the Phoenix force), and given that there are many references throughout the original issues of Jean having some sort of a split personality, where the "real" Jean was fighting this weird force that was taking over her mind, isn't it unfreaking believeable that Jim Shooter ordered the death of Jean Grey over a concept he didn't understand or hadn't even thought about until after the fact!?

Also, Claremont is quite meek and mild in this discussion about having his original story changed. Was he pissed about it and just bit his tongue?

Anyone knowing the true history of this episode and would be willing to share, I would be grateful for your insight.

Thanks a lot!

[RolandJP]

Originally posted by DD

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #10 states Rachel's origin is Phoenix: The Untold Story #1, Uncanny X-Men #188, 192. Peter Sanderson & Mark Gruenwald had to get this information confirmed from Chris Claremont himself. Chris Claremont placed the original Uncanny X-Men #137--when Jean Grey's powers were lobotomized from her mutant brain--in Rachel Summers' origin. Jean Grey & Scott Summers were married & had Rachel Summers. Then the events of Uncanny X-Men #141-142 take place. Rachel Summers' point of origin diverged in Phoenix: The Untold Story #1 when Phoenix did not die on the moon nor did she become Phoenix again.


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=71942


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[Henry T.]

Actually, originally the Phoenix was intended to be Jean at her full potential (this was even explained in Uncanny #125). It was a bit of an alternate persona for her but it was still her own power and an aspect of her mind.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/newmsgt/Phoenix1-1.jpg

The solar flare had tore through the psychic blocks in her mind that Xavier had placed and this allowed her to achieve her full potential as a psi, become briefly a being of pure psychic energy, and to reform herself as Phoenix.

This was acknowledged when Xavier fought Dark Phoenix.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/newmsgt/xmtdps145kq5.jpg

It wasn't until Uncanny X-Men #137 that it was officially revealed that Jean had become One with a force of creation/primal passion that resulted in the creation of Phoenix.

Although Claremont did use the "Phoenix Force" concepts in Classic X-Men #8, #43, and X-Men the End he has hinted at his original intention in Classic X-Men #42 (where the Phoenix is depicted as a subconscious aspect of 12 year old Jean's mind) and Uncanny Revolution (where Jean's Phoenix powers are portrayed as her telepathic powers honed to their sharpest edge).

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[ZNOP]

Originally posted by DD

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition #10 states Rachel's origin is Phoenix: The Untold Story #1, Uncanny X-Men #188, 192. Peter Sanderson & Mark Gruenwald had to get this information confirmed from Chris Claremont himself. Chris Claremont placed the original Uncanny X-Men #137--when Jean Grey's powers were lobotomized from her mutant brain--in Rachel Summers' origin. Jean Grey & Scott Summers were married & had Rachel Summers. Then the events of Uncanny X-Men #141-142 take place. Rachel Summers' point of origin diverged in Phoenix: The Untold Story #1 when Phoenix did not die on the moon nor did she become Phoenix again.

Since when is something that was clearly non-canon as "Phoenix: The Untold Story #1" to be accepted as continuinty? I, have bought and read every volume of the OHOTMU (except for the 8 1/2 x 11 sheets.) especially, "Deluxe Edition #10" a thousand times cross referenceing it with what was actually printed in the pages about Jean, and Rachel -- and for the GOD given life in me I, don't ever remember reading anything that remotely states that Rachel's origin stems from" Phoenix: The Untold Story." Had I read that oh, so many years ago I would remember it. You don't just forget a fact like that. Case in point...

Phoenix: "The Untold Story" can't be used as a creditable source to prove Rachel's origin for two specific reasons --

1. Phoenix: "The Untold Story" was the original, turned atternative, non-canon ending to UX-Men #137.

2. It was printed -- The X-Men of "Earth 811" never encountered the Phoenix. (Excalibur #52)

Note:

"Excalibur #52 says that the X-Men never encountered Phoenix, but in Uncanny X-Men #199, Rachel thinks about her timeline and reveals that there (like in the mainstream universe) Jean became Phoenix and saved the universe. The Excalibur quote could be explained as the X-Men having never FOUGHT Phoenix.

Two scenarios are possible :

√ In DOFP the Phoenix Force impersonated Jean, but she never lost control and was never discovered. This would imply that the real Jean might still be at the bottom of Jamaica Bay.

√ There is no Force in the DOFP. Jean merely received a power-up by passing cosmic radiation during the fateful spaceflight. Jean chose to rename herself to Phoenix, because of having survived the impossible odds."

Whatever the case, Rachel’s mother died when Mastermind detoned a nuclear device in Pittsburgh.

[staceyandhitesh]

is there any scan of manta in this issue

[ermac]

It was everything fine and consistent until that ressurection (cacoon and impersonation). That pretty much messed up the whole story and concept.

Sometimes I start thinking how it would be Claremont's first run on the X without so many editorial interventions...

[darknessatnoon]

The possession angle is dumb. The story is best when it's about mental illness, loss of control and desire. The Byrne cocoon retcon was actually fine since it implied that Jean wasn't there but her personality was nevertheless susceptible to all those temptations anyway.