Fat people in comics

[ryerye17]

This thread is sort of motivated by the apparent minority threads here in DC - racial minorities, gender minorities, etc.

But I think we should also bring out the fact that practically ALL the people in comics are well-built men and women.

No, I do not condone obesity. However, I think that a little plump, a little chubby, a little big bone-dness, a little fat wouldn't do anyone bad.

I don't know. I mean, you say a black child walks into the comic book store and sees only white people. A gay guy walks into the comic book store and sees only straight people.

Have you wondered what a fat boy feels reading Superman? Or a fat girl looking at WW's figure or PG's bossom?

The only fat character I can think of is Bouncing Boy/Chuck Taine in the Legion of Superheroes

[Mister Blisterfists]

Nite Owl
Arthur from the Tick
Ram Man from MOTU
Henchman 21 from Venture Brothers

I have been looking into this, since there's not a lot of costumed characters that fit my current build.

[mdg1]

Amanda Waller?

[ryerye17]

but...does Amanda Waller go around punching people?

[Free-Man]

Mondo from the X-Men.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3848/119847-106086-mondo_super.jpg
http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pictures/comics/Marvel/FleerUltraXMen95/MondoGenX.JPG

[kamikage]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blob_(comics)

[Tyger]

Comics are usually all about fantasy. Having cool powers, righting wrongs, helping people, secret identities, etc. The toned body is just another part of that.

[bjmorga]

Justice League International dealt wit Ted Kord (Blue Beetle) getting chubby. It was humorous of course, but well done.

[bjmorga]

but...does Amanda Waller go around punching people?

You obviously haven't read many Amanda Waller books. She can throw down!

[Darrell D.]

Any woman rendered by Frank Cho?
(Which, by the way, I like.)

[K-DoG7p7]

but...does Amanda Waller go around punching people?

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Waller%203.jpg

[pryde15]

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Waller%203.jpg

Oh Granny Goodness, you make me swoon.

[earl]

Detective Harvey Bullock isn't what you would call svelte.

[Vidocq]

Well, It's a practicalaty thing mostly. It would be hard for most Superheroes who don't have powers or those whose powers don't give them aligity or enhanced reflexes to fight crime without guns if they are chubby and those who do have super aligity, speed and reflexes their boddies would have to adapt to this making it impossible for them to become fat like Flash.


http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Waller%203.jpg

LOVE THAT COVER!

[Jorriss]

Obviously you guys will be able to find incidents of people who are fat in comics but that doesn't change the point she brings they are a minority.

That being said, I don't find being fat, a health risk and such, is comparable to underrepresenting blacks and such.

[CBikle]

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Waller%203.jpg

I like how Amanda Waller is wearing her standard govt. bureaucrat pantsuit ensemble as she does battle with the minions of Darkseid.

Very few comics characters wear pantsuits.

[Damo]

No mention of Etta Candy? Huh.

[marshal99]

Bouncing boy just recently made an appearance and he's most certainly not thin.
http://www.studiosanning.shawbiz.ca/legion_of_super-heroes/membership/bouncing_boy/bouncing_boy_origin.jpg

There's Chunk from the flash comics.
http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/bigimages/chunk.jpg

Etta Candy
http://badgerthegnome.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/etta5.jpg

[Fatguy]

Comics are usually all about fantasy. Having cool powers, righting wrongs, helping people, secret identities, etc. The toned body is just another part of that.

Exactly. Add to that the fact that, in general, people prefer to look at attractive art. Hence, the muscles and giant breasts.



I don't know. I mean, you say a black child walks into the comic book store and sees only white people. A gay guy walks into the comic book store and sees only straight people.

Have you wondered what a fat boy feels reading Superman? Or a fat girl looking at WW's figure or PG's bossom?


Just......LOL. A fat boy reading Superman thinks "Cool, he can fly and lift stuff!".

[titanfan]

I like how Amanda Waller is wearing her standard govt. bureaucrat pantsuit ensemble as she does battle with the minions of Darkseid.

Very few comics characters wear pantsuits.

She was kidnapped in those pantsuits! That was when Oracle had the mullet hairdo as well.

As for this topic, it's kind of like asking why soccer or water polo players aren't fat. We know that JSA/JLA/Titans etc. have rigorous training requirements, while not every character doesn't need to be sporting a six pack, they do need to be in shape.

[Hawkman]

The Human Flame's on the hefty side. But I really don't think it's a problem. If overweight people were truly offended over being underrepresented in comic books, the market would probably be vastly smaller than it already is.

As for being offended, one of the reasons I started working out in my youth was because I wanted to look like the heroes I read about. I understand people complaining about Barbie being too skinny, or wafer-thin models in fashion magazines, or even impossibly-sized breasts on super heroines, but I know for myself I always looked at the musculature of most heroes as an ideal I'd like to achieve myself, even if in most cases it's far from actually attainable.

[shodden]

Why would you work out when you shoot lasers or control things with your mind.

I have always wanted to read a comic about a big fat party animal, no really i have.

[Spiffy]

No mention of Etta Candy? Huh.
But she's been, er... un-fatted. :tongue: She stopped EATING all that Candy!

Old Etta vs. Current Etta:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/5/5b/Etta_Candy_Earth-Two.jpg/200px-Etta_Candy_Earth-Two.jpg http://www.carolastrickland.com/comics/wwcentral/misc_indexes/quotes/scuzzball.jpg

[Superbeast]

Why would you work out when you shoot lasers or control things with your mind.

I have always wanted to read a comic about a big fat party animal, no really i have.

I think the closest you'll get to that is the old Major Bummer comics.

[NeoStar9X]

Why would you work out when you shoot lasers or control things with your mind.

I have always wanted to read a comic about a big fat party animal, no really i have.

That's a good point. If your powers are such where you do not have to physically fight someone you wouldn't be ultra buff or really skinny. Doesn't mean you have to be really fat but average size which would mean you'd have some meat on you. That goes for both male and female characters. Those that focus in range combat for example. True it is fantasy but all fantasy has to have a level of believability (not to mean that characters have to be damaged messes) within it when it comes to it's characters. This is where Marvel beats out DC and always has it seems. :(

However the most serious issue would be with background characters. Having heroes show up in cities yet all you see are white people. As if the writer and artist have never visited a real life metropolitan area before. This has gotten better over the years but still find it an issue. Walk around anywhere in Manhattan and sure you'll see areas that might be heavy with one skin tone or another but not completely but you most certainly would see a wide variety of body types. You'd see this among any profession (even ones where the person would be physically active like construction workers and even cops).

[dancj]

Have you wondered what a fat boy feels reading Superman?
There are plenty of fat comic fans so I don't think it's too much of a barrier.

[dupersuper]

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Waller%203.jpg

I have most of the Ostrander Squad, but sadly not that 1...that looks fun.
Yeah, the superheroes tend to be a well-built lot, what with all the running and fighting they do, plus the whole mythological aspect of the concept. Still, there are plenty of chubby to fat supporting characters. Some have already been mentioned, but there's also;
Perry White (his wife is quite wide in the hip as well)
Allie the copygirl
the Kents before Jonathans first heart attack
Jim Gordon just before HIS heart attack
Sam Lane before he faked his death
Oberon
the Bakers neighbours (Animal Man)
most characters middle-aged parents (especially Dad)

[Slaughter]

http://www.the-isb.com/images/HitmanXMas05.jpg

Natt the Hat, anyone? Just because you're fat does not mean you can't be a awesome Hitman!

[titanfan]

Why would you work out when you shoot lasers or control things with your mind.

I have always wanted to read a comic about a big fat party animal, no really i have.

They answer this in comic books all the time--because you can't rely on your powers alone. What's going to happen when some random comic book villain closes in on you? That's why they undergo combat training in JSA/JLA/Titans, etc.

[Kaos]

Because you gotta be in shape to do the shit they do. It's simple, if you're fat, you're not in shape. It's nothing like skin colour or sexuality.

[Mia]

To be frank I love it that the men and women in comics are fit, I use them as terrific motivators. I used to look at Andy Kuberts's artwork in X-Men and it would persuade me not to skip my 1 mile daily run. Drawings of comic book heroes, especially by the 'sexy artists' (ie. Jim Lee, Marc Sylvestri, David Finch). Really help to serve as great motivators and help me to keep my eyes on the prize.

[Crowforge]

Unless your power isn't physical and or affords you a means of transport other than running around all night you're going to trim up pretty quickly.

[Slaughter]

Unless your power isn't physical and or affords you a means of transport other than running around all night you're going to trim up pretty quickly.

True. Powerful telekinetics probrably would't pay much mind to exercise, unless they were paranoid about being powerless. Why exercise when you can thrown trucks and fly with the power of your mind? For a telekinetic, concentration would be much more important than useless muscles. Same for Green Lanterns.

Also, Shapeshifters probrably trim up with their powers. Unless they can't shift mass.

[Mia]

One thing I will say is that unlike Hollywood, obese people are not all portrayed like idiots and loosers. Many of them are actually brilliant and master strategists (ie. Kingping, Amanda Waller, The Penguine) who run their own businessess, are in charge of huge operations and have a grand belief in themselves.

[titanfan]

True. Powerful telekinetics probrably would't pay much mind to exercise, unless they were paranoid about being powerless. Why exercise when you can thrown trucks and fly with the power of your mind? For a telekinetic, concentration would be much more important than useless muscles. Same for Green Lanterns.


A powerful telekinetic could find a way to exercise his muscles without actually exercising when you think about it.

In Guy Gardner's series, it was revealed he uses his ring to keep himself in shape.

[dupersuper]

True. Powerful telekinetics probrably would't pay much mind to exercise, unless they were paranoid about being powerless. Why exercise when you can thrown trucks and fly with the power of your mind? For a telekinetic, concentration would be much more important than useless muscles. Same for Green Lanterns.


It's not paranoia if it happens frequently...I mean, what super hero HASN'T lost their powers at some point(s)?

[dupersuper]

A powerful telekinetic could find a way to exercise his muscles without actually exercising when you think about it.

In Guy Gardner's series, it was revealed he uses his ring to keep himself in shape.

Actually, that was in the main GL series. Issue # 25 or so of Gerard Jones run.

[4thHorseman]

Hm, who can I think of:

-Rex Leech (Superboys PR guy)

-I can't think of the name, but one of the first villains Steel fought in Man of Steel. The kid was normal size than grew to about twice the size of the Blob before he fought the White Rabbit.

-A villain in the Superboy books who could transform himself and tried to impress the beach because he was jealous of Superboy.

-Bibbo from the Superman books. I always considered him kinda on the plump side, though there was definately some muscle in there.

[The Bastard ColeCashETM]

- Both incarnation of Despair of the Endless. (<- The most powerful fat women in the DCU?)
- In the Lucifer comics, God\Presence appeared as a fat English man

[TROUBLEZ]

Good thread.
Fat characters are usually comic relief, villains or someone to pity.
Not cool.

[dancj]

Some have already been mentioned, but there's also;
<snip>
Jim Gordon just before HIS heart attack

Was Commissioner Gordon ever overweight? I don't remember it.

[ryerye17]

Good thread.
Fat characters are usually comic relief, villains or someone to pity.
Not cool.

Hear Hear!

It would be nice to have a bad-ass full figured hero. I mean, it doesn't have to be the fat one who pants after running for five minutes. But someone who's pleasantly plump

[Crowforge]

I think American is fat enough without encouragement.

[Fatguy]

I think American is fat enough without encouragement.

Yeah, because people choose to get fat based on fictional characters.

[show name]

I think it's more of a problem in live action TV or movies than it is in comics or animation. Popular live action media featuring mostly good-looking thin and muscular people seem to propagate certain body image and appearance-related self-esteem problems, but generally speaking I don't think people compare themselves to animated or comic book characters. They know it's a near unattainable ideal. Even most professional athletes don't have the huge musculature and zero percent body-fat it takes to appear in a comic book. Hugh Jackman had to follow a ridiculously extreme diet and training regimen to even approach Logan's physique, and I doubt it's easily sustainable.

Take a look at this dude, Graviton:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/pictures/individuals/g_1d/graviton.gif

Graviton doesn't have to even physically lift a finger to exercise his team-wrecking powers. According to Marvel Directory, "Graviton possesses the normal human strength of a man of his age, height, and build who engages in minimal regular exercise."

"Minimal regular exercise"? :eek:
I want someone to teach me that exercise program! :biggrin:

[Kamanu]

I can't believe you guys forgot about this guy:



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Butterball.jpg

BUTTERBALL.

[Tahko Tetsujin]

Obviously you guys will be able to find incidents of people who are fat in comics but that doesn't change the point she brings they are a minority.

That being said, I don't find being fat, a health risk and such, is comparable to underrepresenting blacks and such.

What about those who are fit but still large. I'm in perfect health but I am a 350lbs pacific islander. I only eat like twice a day and I walk everywhere. The idea that being overweight is ALWAYS a health risk is not an accurate one.

http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm

[Crowforge]

I thought this was about what's attractive in tights?

[show name]

What about those who are fit but still large. I'm in perfect health but I am a 350lbs pacific islander. I only eat like twice a day and I walk everywhere. The idea that being overweight is ALWAYS a health risk is not an accurate one.

http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm

True. I had a Tongan friend in college who had a lot of fat but who was also extremely strong and an unbelievable athlete. In much better shape that the rest of us...one time we played touch football with seven of us on one team and him all alone on his side, and he won. :eek: He was just too fast.

[Slaughter]

I thought this was about what's attractive in tights?

Just don't use tights for some people, then. Give them armour, Power Armour, military uniform or a trenchcoat. You can't go wrong with a trenchcoat. Tights aren't always cool. If in despair, give them a jacket. If "some people" = a classy, mastermind type of villain with non-phsical powers, give him a suit. Heroes usually get surprised when some dude on a suit throwns them to the moon with telekinesis.

[Crowforge]

Just don't use tights for some people, then. Give them armour, Power Armour, military uniform or a trenchcoat. You can't go wrong with a trenchcoat. Tights aren't always cool. If in despair, give them a jacket. If "some people" = a classy, mastermind type of villain with non-phsical powers, give him a suit. Heroes usually get surprised when some dude on a suit throwns them to the moon with telekinesis.
*starts to say something but just whistles*

[Free-Man]

To be frank I love it that the men and women in comics are fit, I use them as terrific motivators. I used to look at Andy Kuberts's artwork in X-Men and it would persuade me not to skip my 1 mile daily run. Drawings of comic book heroes, especially by the 'sexy artists' (ie. Jim Lee, Marc Sylvestri, David Finch). Really help to serve as great motivators and help me to keep my eyes on the prize.

This is gonna sound really pathetic, but it helped me as well. I was hella chubby in middle school (damn you Samoan genes!!), and I started dieting and joined the wrestling team because I wanted to get a pretty redheaded girlfriend like Mary Jane in Ultimate Spider-Man.

So in a truly ironic twist, comics PREVENTED me from turning into a fat slob!:biggrin:

[Crowforge]

Comics prevented me from developing socially... but I digress.

[Shrimpman]

http://i33.tinypic.com/211qvz5.jpg

[Crowforge]

That's a whole other can of offensive.

[Vidocq]

That's just.... Hilarious. Probablly the funniest thing I've read in a superhero comic :tongue: From what issue is that?

[Jorriss]

What about those who are fit but still large. I'm in perfect health but I am a 350lbs pacific islander. I only eat like twice a day and I walk everywhere. The idea that being overweight is ALWAYS a health risk is not an accurate one.

http://www.obesitymyths.com/myth4.1.htm
Obesity would decrease how fit the person is correct? And it is still an increased health risk, even if the person is fit. I may of overestimated how large of a threat it is of course.

[ryerye17]

That's just.... Hilarious. Probablly the funniest thing I've read in a superhero comic :tongue: From what issue is that?

I want to know too! (it does sound a little racist though)

[The Bastard ColeCashETM]

I want to know too! (it does sound a little racist though)
Justice League of America #26
http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/298/147164_20081029150737_large.jpg

[show name]

That's just.... Hilarious. Probablly the funniest thing I've read in a superhero comic :tongue: From what issue is that?

from this issue (http://www.comicvine.com/justice-league-of-america-the-second-coming-chapter-five-spiritus-mundi/37-141183/)

EDIT: someone beat me to it!

[dupersuper]

Was Commissioner Gordon ever overweight? I don't remember it.

He looked pretty hefty in covers from that era, like the 1 with him and Sara at the movies.

[Free-Man]

I want to know too! (it does sound a little racist though)

You think that's just a joke, but that was an ACTUAL SUPERHERO that DC planned to do a book about in the 70's. Eventually, they axed the idea in favor of Black Lightning.

[NeoStar9X]

That's a whole other can of offensive.

Wow. I'm really hoping that was the point of that..

[Mia]

This is gonna sound really pathetic, but it helped me as well. I was hella chubby in middle school (damn you Samoan genes!!), and I started dieting and joined the wrestling team because I wanted to get a pretty redheaded girlfriend like Mary Jane in Ultimate Spider-Man.

So in a truly ironic twist, comics PREVENTED me from turning into a fat slob!:biggrin:

There's nothing pathetic about it. There are many of us who use Superheroes as role models in one way or the other.

[FailureByDesign]

There's nothing pathetic about it. There are many of us who use Superheroes as role models in one way or the other.

I think thats what fat characters are so rare, other than those whose size is part of their special ability i.e bouncing boy. Sure its appealing to heavy readers but thats about it.

[ryerye17]

IF we use super-heroes as supermodels, and that what we see are "the standard of beauty, strength, and wisdom" (Iconic Marvel, 2009), then why do we have clamors for racial inclusion? For gender variety?

It's just as fair. We want to see more variety. A black guy likes to see a black character to relate to. A gay guy likes to see a gay character to relate to. Why? It's because they see themselves as heroes. Black people have been subject to discrimination. So have gay people. And that's why it's nice that we have standards to look up to.

But what about the fat boy who gets picked on all the time? I personally don't think a little fat is bad, nor do I think that overglorifying muscles are good.

[Free-Man]

I think thats what fat characters are so rare, other than those whose size is part of their special ability i.e bouncing boy. Sure its appealing to heavy readers but thats about it.

That's kinda why I loved the back issues of Gen X when they first came out. There was a fat kid on the team who not only wasn't comic relief, but he was actually one of the most powerful kids on the team!!!

[Mia]

IF we use super-heroes as supermodels, and that what we see are "the standard of beauty, strength, and wisdom" (Iconic Marvel, 2009), then why do we have clamors for racial inclusion? For gender variety?

It's just as fair. We want to see more variety. A black guy likes to see a black character to relate to. A gay guy likes to see a gay character to relate to. Why? It's because they see themselves as heroes. Black people have been subject to discrimination. So have gay people. And that's why it's nice that we have standards to look up to.

Umm...how did you come by this information? I myself am a member of a visible minority group and it doesn't bother me that most of the characters are white males. When it comes down to it all I care about is the characters character. And whether or not the hero or heroine rise to the occassion when duty calls.

If I want to see a reflection of myself I will look in the mirror.




But what about the fat boy who gets picked on all the time? I personally don't think a little fat is bad, nor do I think that overglorifying muscles are good.


No fat isn't bad. But neither is it good. Further being a fitness junky, I know that it takes a lot of hard work to be muscular and ripped. Being ripped shows dedication and sacrifice and self respect.

[Crowforge]

Muscles are awesome!

[Free-Man]

Umm...how did you come by this information? I myself am a member of a visible minority group and it doesn't bother me that most of the characters are white males. When it comes down to it all I care about is the characters character. And whether or not the hero or heroine rise to the occassion when duty calls.

If I want to see a reflection of myself I will look in the mirror.


You may feel that way, but I assure you, many people do not feel the same way.

[Mia]

You may feel that way, but I assure you, many people do not feel the same way.

Obviously not, and it explains why there are only about two books I collect on a monthly basis. I miss the days when the companies used to focus on putting good materials as oppossed to catering to a bunch of insecure fans who need personal validation in a book.

Political correctness is ruining comic books.

[Free-Man]

Obviously not, and it explains why there are only about two books I collect on a monthly basis. I miss the days when the companies used to focus on putting good materials as oppossed to catering to a bunch of insecure fans who need personal validation in a book.

Political correctness is ruining comic books.

I don't think that's fair. I don't believe in affirmative action one bit, but I think kids should certainly be able to watch a cartoon or read a comic and see that people like them can be superheroes too.

That's why the cat used in the Brave and the Bold cartoon is so genius from a marketing standpoint. Almost no one is left out.

[Crowforge]

I like affirmative action but it has nothing to do with comics. You guys don't know what you're talking about.

[Free-Man]

I like affirmative action but it has nothing to do with comics. You guys don't know what you're talking about.

You're right. But I constantly hear people using the term when they believe pesky non-whites or gays or women are being "shoved down their throats".

[ryerye17]

Obviously not, and it explains why there are only about two books I collect on a monthly basis. I miss the days when the companies used to focus on putting good materials as oppossed to catering to a bunch of insecure fans who need personal validation in a book.

Political correctness is ruining comic books.

You mistake me. I buy a comic book based solely on two factors : A) Writing B) Art

HOWEVER,

as a part of "a bunch of insecure fans who need personal validation in a book" (Mia, 2009) we do want to see ourselves glorified, magnified and superified.

Don't get me wrong - I don't boycott stories that don't have significant gay, black, overweight people. Neither would I patronize a story JUST BECAUSE the lead character is gay, black and overweight.

Comic Books SHOULD reflect society. I was reading some Golden Age/Silver Age Wonder Woman and X-Men Comics. Would you seriously let Wonder Woman not pull off her blindfold because it ruins her eyelashes? That was a scene in a Wonder Woman comic. And Jean Grey tosing Hank McCoy because "he ran in front of her, and it's always ladies first"

Right now, we are in the middle of recognition of tons and minorities. And it would be nice if we had more writers like Winick who incorporate them into storylines

[Dick/babs]

I do not understand why people want to read about people like them i am 20 Age Muslim Arab and my Favorite Characters are Jews and Christians :smile: :smile:


i see 24 I do not have a problem that most of the Bad guys are Muslims

[Ikonic]

You're right. But I constantly hear people using the term when they believe pesky non-whites or gays or women are being "shoved down their throats".

Those who complain about minorities wanting representation are the reason for my sig. As long as they're happy, to hell with how anyone else feels. They look at it as their bus. They're pretty much telling you that you should be satisfied with sitting in the back of it.

[Mia]

I don't think that's fair. I don't believe in affirmative action one bit,

Actually it sounds like you do. You want characters to be shoved in to stories simply to reflect society.



but I think kids should certainly be able to watch a cartoon or read a comic and see that people like them can be superheroes too.

Yes that's right they should. But that does not necessarily have to constitute anything outward.

It can and should be reflect intelligence, character and goals. I have way more in common with Batman (in terms of intrests, goals and ambition) even though he is a white male. Than I do with Misty (from MU Heroes for Hire) even though she is a Black female, as I am.

[Mia]

Those who complain about minorities wanting representation are the reason for my sig. As long as they're happy, to hell with how anyone else feels. They look at it as their bus. They're pretty much telling you that you should be satisfied with sitting in the back of it.

That is a silly comparison.

[Free-Man]

Actually it sounds like you do. You want characters to be shoved in to stories simply to reflect society.

Yes that's right they should. But that does not necessarily have to constitute anything outward.

It can and should be reflect intelligence, character and goals. I have way more in common with Batman (in terms of intrests, goals and ambition) even though he is a white male. Than I do with Misty (from MU Heroes for Hire) even though she is a Black female, as I am.

You're looking at it from an unrealistically idealized point. Yes, it would be nice to live in a world where race doesn't matter. But it does.

And how does wanting stories to not shaft out minorities make me in favor of affirmative action, pray tell?

[Dick/babs]

Those who complain about minorities wanting representation are the reason for my sig. As long as they're happy, to hell with how anyone else feels. They look at it as their bus. They're pretty much telling you that you should be satisfied with sitting in the back of it.

Like I said before i am 20 Age Muslim Arab that Makes me a minorities in Comics More than Any one and i I think your sig is ridiculous

[Mia]

You're looking at it from an unrealistically idealized point. Yes, it would be nice to live in a world where race doesn't matter. But it does.

I have no idea what this point has to do with the subject at hand.



And how does wanting stories to not shaft out minorities make me in favor of affirmative action, pray tell?

Because by definition, what you just posted, is affirmative action (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action).

[oanswat]

This thread is sort of motivated by the apparent minority threads here in DC - racial minorities, gender minorities, etc.

But I think we should also bring out the fact that practically ALL the people in comics are well-built men and women.

No, I do not condone obesity. However, I think that a little plump, a little chubby, a little big bone-dness, a little fat wouldn't do anyone bad.

I don't know. I mean, you say a black child walks into the comic book store and sees only white people. A gay guy walks into the comic book store and sees only straight people.

Have you wondered what a fat boy feels reading Superman? Or a fat girl looking at WW's figure or PG's bossom?

The only fat character I can think of is Bouncing Boy/Chuck Taine in the Legion of Superheroes

I don't want to see fat superheroes, most of the time they are supposed to be a good example of something we should aspire to be in many ways. Fat super heroes should stick to comedy. Maybe if it upsets fat people when they read superman then they should lose some friggin weight.

[Ikonic]

Mia and Dick/babs, stop spewing that drivel. Nobody is buying it.

[Vidocq]

Umm...how did you come by this information? I myself am a member of a visible minority group and it doesn't bother me that most of the characters are white males. When it comes down to it all I care about is the characters character. And whether or not the hero or heroine rise to the occassion when duty calls.

If I want to see a reflection of myself I will look in the mirror.


Agreed completely. I'm a 20 year old latino but even as a weird tanned skinny kid that I was, I felt (and feel) more identified with Batman than I would ever be with Blue Beetle, For whom I never really cared for or bothered to buy more than one issue of his series and always wanted for Ted to come back but I digress.

You want to know what kids really identify with? Expirences, Desires, hopes and dreams. That's it. I first felt identified with Batman because my father died, and it wasn't even in a murder, but that didn't matter I felt a connection with Batman ever since, and the first time I stood up to a bully it wasn't for my self it was for someone else because that's what Batman would've done and I realized that we both have torturing consciences that don't allow us to let go. And that has ABSOLUTELY Nothing to do with the fact that Bruce Wayne ALSO has Black hair and the undeniable fact that we are both the sexiest men around....:tongue:. But it dosen't even have to be something as extreme as that, a friend is identified with Superman because he was also adopted, others can see themselves in Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman etc but not because of what she/he is but what she/he wants to become.

I don't oppose minorities in comics, but I don't want to see a Honduran Superhero created with his whole background and character traits being ''He is Honduran!''. First you create the CHARACTER Then you decide HOW IT LOOKS. Otherwise you just have a rainbow of colors in the JLA but all of them will be dull.

[pariah-1972]

Being someone who currently suffers from a weight problem it would be nice to see people who might be a little on the chubby side and one that's not a complete joke and the only one i can think of is Bouncing Boy who has a hot wife in Duplicate Damsel or whatever her name is.


Night Owl is sometimes drawn chubby sometimes not so i'm not sure where he stands.

[Munkiman]

Being someone who currently suffers from a weight problem it would be nice to see people who might be a little on the chubby side and one that's not a complete joke and the only one i can think of is Bouncing Boy who has a hot wife in Duplicate Damsel or whatever her name is.


Night Owl is sometimes drawn chubby sometimes not so i'm not sure where he stands.
In Watchmen, Nite Owl was always drawn as having a noticeable paunch, except in flashbacks, but then he wasn't exactly what you'd call young during the time the story is set in.

[Psavell2]

In Watchmen, Nite Owl was always drawn as having a noticeable paunch, except in flashbacks, but then he wasn't exactly what you'd call young during the time the story is set in.

He may also mean the (relatively) new Owlman in the Outsiders series, who does look kind of chubby, although I can't help thinking his appearance is influenced by Nite Owl. Two out of shape detectives in owl costumes armed with an insane number of high tech gadgets?

[Dick/babs]

Mia and Dick/babs, stop spewing that drivel. Nobody is buying it.

what are You not buying

:confused: :confused: that i am 20 Age Muslim Arab

:confused: :confused: or that I do not care to Read some one like me

or that i I think your sig is ridiculous

[Crowforge]

what are You not buying

:confused: :confused: that i am 20 Age Muslim Arab

:confused: :confused: or that I do not care to Read some one like me

or that i I think your sig is ridiculous
I don't buy that just because you don't care no one should. When I read a comic I want to see a reflection of society (and not just squarish miserable, nominally straight guys dressed in black, like myself) unless there's a story reason why there isn't say the mix you get in real lifeit just seems weird to me.

[Freakzeek]

I don't buy that just because you don't care no one should. When I read a comic I want to see a reflection of society (and not just squarish miserable, nominally straight guys dressed in black, like myself) unless there's a story reason why there isn't say the mix you get in real lifeit just seems weird to me.

Man, Just Ignore His Troll-Bait, As The Great Writer Christopher Priest Once Said
"Comic books have traditionally had a limited appeal to minorities because we see so little truth in them, so very little of who we are. Inaccurate and transparently indifferent approaches, exploitative rip-offs and, at best, well-meaning cluelessness." --PRIEST

[Munkiman]

At best? So you're saying (well, Priest is saying, but you're agreeing with him) that comic books have never, ever done justice to minority characters? o__0

[pariah-1972]

He may also mean the (relatively) new Owlman in the Outsiders series, who does look kind of chubby, although I can't help thinking his appearance is influenced by Nite Owl. Two out of shape detectives in owl costumes armed with an insane number of high tech gadgets?Yeah i meant the new one from the Outsiders the first time we saw him sans costume he looked like he was in a good shape and then it has varied quite a bit since then.

[Freakzeek]

At best? So you're saying (well, Priest is saying, but you're agreeing with him) that comic books have never, ever done justice to minority characters? o__0 For The Most Part?, Yeah.

[dancj]

Man, Just Ignore His Troll-Bait, As The Great Writer Christopher Priest Once Said
"Comic books have traditionally had a limited appeal to minorities because we see so little truth in them, so very little of who we are. Inaccurate and transparently indifferent approaches, exploitative rip-offs and, at best, well-meaning cluelessness." --PRIEST
Nah - I'm pretty sure that's the crappy writer James Owsely who likes to call himself Christopher Priest. The Great writer Christopher Priest is a British guy who wrote The Affirmation, The Prestige and The Glamour and as far as I'm aware has nothing to do with comics

[dupersuper]

Nah - I'm pretty sure that's the crappy writer James Owsely who likes to call himself Christopher Priest. The Great writer Christopher Priest is a British guy who wrote The Affirmation, The Prestige and The Glamour and as far as I'm aware has nothing to do with comics

I very much liked Owsley/Priests run on Steel...

[7thangel]

You think that's just a joke, but that was an ACTUAL SUPERHERO that DC planned to do a book about in the 70's. Eventually, they axed the idea in favor of Black Lightning.
yeah, i first read about it in cbr's comic book legends (it's also retold in the book version), it even mentions how it was told to mcduffie and stated that he might parody it in the future, which he did.

here's isabella's account (http://www.proudrobot.com/hembeck/blacklightning.html)


I will say that I created Black Lightning after convincing DC not to publish another "black" super-hero on which they had started work. The Black Bomber was a white bigot who, in times of stress, turned into a black super-hero. This was the result of chemical camouflage experiments he'd taken part in as a soldier in Vietnam. The object of these experiments was to allow our [white] troops to blend into the jungle.

In each of the two completed Black Bomber scripts, the white bigot risks his own life to save another person whom he can't see clearly (in one case, a baby in a stroller) and then reacts in racial slur disgust when he discovers that he risked his life to save a black person. He wasn't aware that he had two identities, but each identity had a girlfriend and the ladies were aware of the change. To add final insult, the Bomber's costume was little more than a glorified basketball uniform.

DC had wanted me to take over writing the book with the third issue. I convinced them to eat the two scripts and let me start over. To paraphrase my arguments...

"Do you REALLY want DC's first black super-hero to be a white bigot?"

Okay, he wasn't precisely their first black super-hero, but I made my point. The Black Bomber stories were deep-sixed and I went to work on my own creation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i never understand why some people have problems with actually creating some diversity and variety into comics (and not some 'here you go' tokenism), it can only make it better, allow more and bettr stories to be told and actually capture more readers.

a lot of people have abandoned comics, ya books, and scifi/fantasy due to this.

[shadow knight]

You mistake me. I buy a comic book based solely on two factors : A) Writing B) Art

HOWEVER,

as a part of "a bunch of insecure fans who need personal validation in a book" (Mia, 2009) we do want to see ourselves glorified, magnified and superified.

Don't get me wrong - I don't boycott stories that don't have significant gay, black, overweight people. Neither would I patronize a story JUST BECAUSE the lead character is gay, black and overweight.

Comic Books SHOULD reflect society. I was reading some Golden Age/Silver Age Wonder Woman and X-Men Comics. Would you seriously let Wonder Woman not pull off her blindfold because it ruins her eyelashes? That was a scene in a Wonder Woman comic. And Jean Grey tosing Hank McCoy because "he ran in front of her, and it's always ladies first"

Right now, we are in the middle of recognition of tons and minorities. And it would be nice if we had more writers like Winick who incorporate them into storylines I sorry to tell you this not everyone, likes Winnick political agenda. Not every gay person is noble and not everyone who thinks homosexuality is wrong is a gay basher. While aids is tragic and should be treated, I don't read comics to get my politics. Judd seems to be under the delusion he's the only one that cares about the subject.

Simply put less is more and stop hitting people over the head with your politics because after a while it becomes a turn off. For example he turned Arsenal GF Grace on the Outsiders gay. Simply put I have No Interest in a gay superhero, I.E. Freedom Ring, Rawhide Kid, Batwoman, Question. I'm interested in reading about a superhero who happens to be gay. I.E. Joshia Power, from Power Company he was both gay and black, Maggie Saywer was a gay female and police Lt in Action comics during JB run was also interesting.

[mswood]

This brings to mind a very serious point. I can understand Flash having a fine runners build, I can understand Batman (or those type of characters) training their body to perfection.

But how the hell does Superman have a sculpted perfect body.

That requires one to use and strain your muscles forcing them to grow. When Clark (and others like him) almost never have to strain their muscles.

Almost everything we see clark do would be the like one of us literally moving a feather. And let me tell you that would never build muscle mass. Even the exercise that one can do with just your own body would be nothing for clark, as we use our body weight to train against.

Hell at least Wonder Women could say her body shape was due to her mystic origin. As can the Marvel's.

And Martian Manhunter is a shapeshifter.

But how the hell does Clark have a perfect (not only toned) but body builder like frame?

[mswood]

I hate the idea of just making a character (insert race, body shape, political belief, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, ect) for the sake of making a quota.

But the fact that comics (and many other forms of entertainment) are often exceedingly limited in the type of characters they show is really pretty damn sad.

For example as a gay man, I want to see more gay characters in all forms of entertainment. But I also want them to be playing all types of roles. From the heroes to the bad guy to the average citizen. I want them to be fat and balding and fit and glorious looking.

And I want this for all sorts of types of characters. And I want the writers and publishers of comics to have the skills to actually tell stories with characters who are well developed and that fit the stories and not just be shoehorned into roles for whatever reason (be it political correctness or to generate media attention).

And frankly I would thank that is something we should all agree on..

[Infernorhythm]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not, but there was the original Mr. America's sidekick Fatman, who, well, was a fat guy. Didn't stop him from being awesome. See The Golden Age for the main example why.

[Name Already Taken]

I like my fat people in comics to go be fat somewhere else. Fatties need not be seen on panel, only heard or addressed in passing.

[shadow knight]

This brings to mind a very serious point. I can understand Flash having a fine runners build, I can understand Batman (or those type of characters) training their body to perfection.

But how the hell does Superman have a sculpted perfect body.

That requires one to use and strain your muscles forcing them to grow. When Clark (and others like him) almost never have to strain their muscles.

Almost everything we see clark do would be the like one of us literally moving a feather. And let me tell you that would never build muscle mass. Even the exercise that one can do with just your own body would be nothing for clark, as we use our body weight to train against.

Hell at least Wonder Women could say her body shape was due to her mystic origin. As can the Marvel's.

And Martian Manhunter is a shapeshifter.

But how the hell does Clark have a perfect (not only toned) but body builder like frame?

It depens on which orgin you use. In John Byrne Orign Jor-El had Ka-El designed to be genetically perfect. Also in JB version his powers slowly grew as he aged. If you go by the current version where he joined the legion as a teenager, I'm pretty sure he worked out in those LSH stories from the 70's and 80's.
Anyway genetics also has something to do with your overall frame regardless on how much you work out. Someone of direct Zulu warrior descent tends to be tall and slim, while someone of direct Pigmy descent will be very short and stocky. While genetic traits tend to be defused after time due to breeding outside your genetic tribe, as far as I know Ka-El is pure kryptonian and I've yet to see a fat, chubby or stocky kryptonian.

[mswood]

Of course solely off of genetics he should have a certain body type.

And going off of Byrnes creation (since I haven't followed any other), then based on all the Kryptonians we saw I would think he wouldn't have a body buildrers shape. Not from his genetic background or from genetic programming. I would think their ideal would be more of a swimmers/runners build then a body builders.

As for using a teen aged period to develop with the legion, I think that highly unlikely. As even with the legion very, very rarely do they fight foes that would force him to use his strength in repeated precise movements that would build a cut well developed body form (basic muscle mass sure to some degree certainly, but not cut, and certainly not ever muscle).

[Munkiman]

Everything isn't always easy for Superman. We've seen him strained, it just takes a lot weight or force. So to work out he could just go find a mountain to lift, and whatnot.

[Libaax]

I don't buy that just because you don't care no one should. When I read a comic I want to see a reflection of society (and not just squarish miserable, nominally straight guys dressed in black, like myself) unless there's a story reason why there isn't say the mix you get in real lifeit just seems weird to me.

I agree.

When i was new reader of comics i somehow didnt expect all the famous superheroes being white. I expected somehow there were Blade versions in the comics ei a black or other coloured action,superhero who was big enough to hold a series.

It was a bit bummer seeing minority characters failing time after time no matter how awesome they are.

I'm black and not Latino but I liked the idea of Jaime Reyes BB when it was new because it was more of a real society in US where IRL there are so many Latino. Having a young superhero being like that was a fresh POV. Even before i read and enjoyed the stories.

[dupersuper]

This brings to mind a very serious point. I can understand Flash having a fine runners build, I can understand Batman (or those type of characters) training their body to perfection.

But how the hell does Superman have a sculpted perfect body.

But how the hell does Clark have a perfect (not only toned) but body builder like frame?

Well, he has stated that his body processes 100% of his intake; there's no waste to turn to fat, and he was largely normal until his teens, and he does train with the league; sparring with Wonder Woman...and he does strain his muscles rather regularly fighting Darkseid, Doomsday, Zod, Mongul, Bizarro, Cyborg Superman, both Ultramen, etc....

[Crowforge]

He has to have some fat or he'd look freakish.

[LungerTony]

Otherwise you just have a rainbow of colors in the JLA but all of them will be dull.

Well said. I could care less about ethnicity, etc. in comics - I just don't like it when it involves politics, AT ALL. Characters first.

I would like to see a few chubbier heroes/heroines - even if they are a more comedic type of character. Chubbier does not mean morbidly obese.
I find some people act so damn immature about it. I don't know if they are just being dumb to be funny or what. They act as though it disgusts them which is so stupid.

It's already been stated. Certain fighting styles, powersets would naturally require PEAK physical condition.
But powersets that don't require extreme physical prowess would just flat out make more sense if some of them were a lil chubby.

Someone made the argument that even these would be at prime physical fitness. WHATEVER. Look at professional sports. Everyone doesn't have a comicbook Calvin Klein body and they are in top notch shape. And these are badass athletes who work out every all the time.

And I offer a big sarcastic thanks to the first person who compared it to ethnic minorities. They aren't the same. The thread starter wasn't even saying they were.
The reason that the call for chubby representation is not nearly the same as ethnic representation is not a valid reason in itself to think that every single working superhero has a 14-pack abs and breast implants if they female.
(10 random loser examples in 50 years of comics doesn't mean anything.)

[dancj]

It's not DC, but there was a chubby girl in Runaways (though the future adult version of her wasn't chubby).

[Sandy Hausler]

This thread is sort of motivated by the apparent minority threads here in DC - racial minorities, gender minorities, etc.

But I think we should also bring out the fact that practically ALL the people in comics are well-built men and women.

No, I do not condone obesity. However, I think that a little plump, a little chubby, a little big bone-dness, a little fat wouldn't do anyone bad.

I don't know. I mean, you say a black child walks into the comic book store and sees only white people. A gay guy walks into the comic book store and sees only straight people.

Have you wondered what a fat boy feels reading Superman? Or a fat girl looking at WW's figure or PG's bossom?

The only fat character I can think of is Bouncing Boy/Chuck Taine in the Legion of Superheroes

Josiah Power.

Sandy Hausler

[Munkiman]

It's not DC, but there was a chubby girl in Runaways (though the future adult version of her wasn't chubby).

Yeah, Gertrude Yorkes (aka Arsenic), but she's Marvel.

And dead.

[pariah-1972]

Yeah, Gertrude Yorkes (aka Arsenic), but she's Marvel.

And dead.She looks to be coming back soon (yay!)

[Wilder Midnight]

i know its psuedo comic book logic but i always figured that characters with superpowers also have superpowered metabolisms to help allow their powers to function without destroying their bodies...with the flash being a prime example.

using your powers prolly burns lots and lots of calories.

[Wilder Midnight]

Has anybody mentioned the Kingpin yet?

[Crowforge]

He's not actually fat.

[Wilder Midnight]

can you imagine what his momma looks like?

darkseid's a husky boy.

[pariah-1972]

can you imagine what his momma looks like?

darkseid's a husky boy.He's just big boned.:tongue:

[dupersuper]

Josiah Power.

Sandy Hausler

I remember him being much more muscle than fat...