How the mighty have fallen...

[End of Time]

The X-titles used to be king of the hill, they sold like hot cakes.

If you opened up a Wizard magazine (remember when that still existed...) you would run into a myriad of x-related articles, but more importantly, you'd see the X-titles dominated the charts. Coming in at the #1 and #2 spot month after month after month.

So why are they struggling to get into the top ten these days?

What is it that makes the X-titles not as succesful as they once were?

[Talisman]

The X-titles used to be king of the hill, they sold like hot cakes.

If you opened up a Wizard magazine (remember when that still existed...) you would run into a myriad of x-related articles, but more importantly, you'd see the X-titles dominated the charts. Coming in at the #1 and #2 spot month after month after month.

So why are they struggling to get into the top ten these days?

What is it that makes the X-titles not as succesful as they once were?
Marvel doesn't focus as much attention on them as they do the Avengers titles now. And Matt Fraction and Warren Ellis are running Uncanny and Astonishing into the ground.

[AcesX1X]

end of time, marketing means everything.

[Daniel Mengsk]

What is it that makes the X-titles not as succesful as they once were?

Nothing last forever is suppose...

[Sighphi]

..... The Marvel World has switched focus to the Avengers..... have you not seen that?

[limerick]

It's so hard to jump on board as a new reader.....up to 25 X-books published per month....any new reader just gets put off by their inability to join the story....How often do we get new readers saying that very thing on the threads,posting requests on how to catch up on the story,it's nigh on impossible!....the X-mens ability to sell a huge number of titles per month will be their undoing eventually

[Waterlily]

The X-titles used to be king of the hill, they sold like hot cakes.

If you opened up a Wizard magazine (remember when that still existed...) you would run into a myriad of x-related articles, but more importantly, you'd see the X-titles dominated the charts. Coming in at the #1 and #2 spot month after month after month.

So why are they struggling to get into the top ten these days?

What is it that makes the X-titles not as succesful as they once were?

Climate change brought on by glaciation and super volcanoes. I'm sure rampant disease has not helped much, either.

Rapid warming and severe climatic fluctuations produced by concurrent glaciation events on the north and south poles. In temperate zones, there is evidence of significant cooling and drying in the sedimentological record, shown by thick sequences of dune sands and evaporites, while in the polar zones, glaciation was prominent. This caused severe climatic fluctuations around the globe.

Basaltic lava eruptions in Siberia. These volcanic eruptions were large and sent a quantity of sulphates into the atmosphere. Evidence in China supports that these volcanic eruptions may have been silica-rich, and thus explosive, a factor that would have produced large ash clouds around the world. The combination of sulphates in the atmosphere and the ejection of ash clouds may have lowered global climatic conditions.

[End of Time]

Marvel doesn't focus as much attention on them as they do the Avengers titles now. And Matt Fraction and Warren Ellis are running Uncanny and Astonishing into the ground.

But Warren Ellis is a big enough name to bolster a franchise. He's got the street cred, the reputation of being a competent and involved creator. Same goes for Brubaker, who used to be a hot piece of property...

The x-titles still have the talent on paper and in theory... so why aren't those titles making any considerable waves?

Marketing should only get you so far, and the Avengers titles might get more exposure, the X-titles are the second franchise, so their still get a considerable amount of attention. It's not as if they're being hidden from sight like the Icon titles, or the Space-branch of the Marvel Universe...

[Azure]

The X-Books are still a better read than the Avengers books, thus they are still more successful.

[Talisman]

But Warren Ellis is a big enough name to bolster a franchise. He's got the street cred, the reputation of being a competent and involved creator. Same goes for Brubaker, who used to be a hot piece of property...

The x-titles still have the talent on paper and in theory... so why aren't those titles making any considerable waves?

Marketing should only get you so far, and the Avengers titles might get more exposure, the X-titles are the second franchise, so their still get a considerable amount of attention. It's not as if they're being hidden from sight like the Icon titles, or the Space-branch of the Marvel Universe...

He can have all the street cred in the world, if the story is shitty, the story is shitty.

[Michael P]

Like the rest of the industry, the franchise collapsed under its own weight in the mid-'90s. And, like the rest of the industry, it's never really recovered.

[Daniel Mengsk]

Like the rest of the industry, the franchise collapsed under its own weight in the mid-'90s.

Sounds like a star going supernova....

[spiderwire]

There are just too many X-Men and New X-Men. The teams are too watered down for the writers to concentrate on decent back stories. All the doom and gloom is getting tiresome also.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Joe Quesada

[Daniel Mengsk]

Joe Quesada

Oh yeah, now that you mentioned it; didn't he say in a wizard interview that he shifted the focus to the Avengers from the X-Men because the Avengers at the time needed more publicity? It was something like that -- I think.

[ExodusCloak]

The X-titles used to be king of the hill, they sold like hot cakes.

If you opened up a Wizard magazine (remember when that still existed...) you would run into a myriad of x-related articles, but more importantly, you'd see the X-titles dominated the charts. Coming in at the #1 and #2 spot month after month after month.

So why are they struggling to get into the top ten these days?

What is it that makes the X-titles not as succesful as they once were?

Well considering that there are multiple crossovers from both DC and Marvel going on I doubt you'll see the X-books in the first and second slot not to mention all these reboots like Batman & Robin #1 and milestone issues #600. The only thing that has really changed is that Astonishing X-Men took a massive hit. Everything else remained the same.

[Filthy Mutie]

Know what else was awesome in the '90s?

The Super Nintendo Entertainment System.


Know what is STILL awesome?

Rob Liefeld.

[XaviersMisprint]

There's about 20 different books, infinite characters to keep track of, some of the writing and art choices have been questionable... people don't know where to begin.

I read comics as a kid, but stopped in 3rd grade because "it wasn't cool anymore", and when I decided I was a nerd anyway and it made no difference, picked them back up at the end of 5th grade. I remember starting again with New X-Men #126 and I think X-Men Unlimited :36. There was also Uncanny, X-Treme, plus a bunch of other spin-offs like Cable, Deadpool, Wolverine, Ultimate X-Men, etc. I remember thinking that some of them weren't "real", and that the only real stories were in New X-Men and Uncanny, "the core books". I picked up X-Treme and assumed it was alternate universe non-canon nonsense, but eventually got into it.

I think new readers have a hard time getting to the heart of what the deal is with the X-Men. No one starts with every X-Book. They start with one or two, then go onto a third, get overloaded and are all "wtf is this and which one should I be reading?"

I hope some of that helped explain.

[ExodusCloak]

There's about 20 different books, infinite characters to keep track of, some of the writing and art choices have been questionable... people don't know where to begin.

I don't know, I believe most veteran fans were initially annoyed with Fractions run because it was too simplistic and maybe too accomodating to newer readers.

Some of the artists suck and I hate big splash pages of heroes in mid-fair fighting each other (The splash page thing applies to all of marvel). It annoys me to hell. They also need to stop trying to save series' that aren't bringing in the numbers by putting good artists on them.

[limerick]

I don't know, I believe most veteran fans were initially annoyed with Fractions run because it was too simplistic and maybe too accomodating to newer readers.

Some of the artists suck and I hate big splash pages of heroes in mid-fair fighting each other (The splash page thing applies to all of marvel). It annoys me to hell. They also need to stop trying to save series' that aren't bringing in the numbers by putting good artists on them.
That's a good point actually,#500-up was simplistic at first as if they were assuming the anniversary would bring new readers in and they should ease things up a little for that....That's not the way to go,for sure....Stay with what brought success in the first place....Personally more defined team membership would help....less crossing over of team members like it used be at their peak....X-MEN(UNCANNY AND ADJECTIVELESS),EXCALIBUR,GEN X.X-FACTOR..ETC

[Sighphi]

Oh yeah, now that you mentioned it; didn't he say in a wizard interview that he shifted the focus to the Avengers from the X-Men because the Avengers at the time needed more publicity? It was something like that -- I think.

SEE!



. .

[invisiblefive]

(sorry for my english)
from a pure marketing point of view, it would make sense for marvel to shift focus on the avengers rather than on the x-franchise. virtually every member of the avengers has its solo title, and with the inclusion of spider-man and wolverine in the avngers, the team now spawns toward every part of the marvel universe (like, for example, when spider-man decided to unmask for the first time post-OMD, he did it in the avngers pages rather than on its own title) whiwh therefore makes the avengers title THE books to read to keep up.And once you read the avengers, you are more encline to follow the solo adevntures of the team members, that would have otherwise been nothing but obscure B-listers to a majority of readers (for example: Ms marvel). so it's a virtuous circle, and a smart move, probably one of the reason why marvel is the undisputed leader.
If you look back on the nineties, every single "world changing event" crossovers was somehow X-related, and therefore the x-titles were the titles to read to follow the marvel universe in gneral. the avengers, for as much as i recall, were pretty marginals, and the solo titles were, for as much as i know, not selling too well (i remember an interview of warren ellis, who was at that time the writer of Thor, saying that even by including a semi naked enchantress on the book, he couldn't drive reader's attention, and that the sales were still pretty poor. and now look: Thor is easily one of marvel's best seller)
So i think the sales dump of the X-men were intentional, and an editorial move: the x-titles had no more expanding margin(if i judge by the bombs that were the latest attempts at ongoing solo x-tiles such as: bishop, gambit and emma frost), and the expanding margin of the marvel company is ,i guess, dependant of the center line of its universe.
Disassembled, by eliminating the b-lister of the team and creating a new avengers team consisting of all the big shots of the marvel universe assured the title a center position.
House of M, by being the first avengers driven event in ages showed readers that this was the place to be.
Decimation, by removing the center aspect of the x-titles, cut them their foundation, and made them marginal.
Manifest destiny was just the last logical step: give to the x-men their own corner of the marvel universe, far from the big new-york events.
it is of course just a assumption.

[Dog]

Some of the artists suck and I hate big splash pages of heroes in mid-fair fighting each other
Why is that?

[ExodusCloak]

Why is that?

Mainly because the characters aren't doing anything and it makes 90% of the cast wallpaper that has been my main problem with Civil War and Secret Invastion and even Messiah Complex. When characters fight I personally love to see them use their powers creatively to try and get themselves out of impossible situations. On splash pages everyone is pretty much doing nothing. I feel that they should rather cut the cast then have a fight scene that looks messy.

What I don't like seeing is someone like Spider-Man facing off against Bishop in a big splash page and there's no sign of them until a few pages later where he's suddenly facing off against Venom with no explanation as to what happened to Bishop.

[Supercoolshay]

Climate change brought on by glaciation and super volcanoes. I'm sure rampant disease has not helped much, either.

For the win.

[Roach5000]

My issues with the 616 X-men is that there isnt a clear focus. The X-men arent proactive but reactive. Back when the X-men was the top series they were a family. They felt like people not characters. Something as simple as nicknames for each other made a lot of difference. Whens the last time Storm called Peter "Little Brother", Or Logan called Scott "Slim".
The stories from the 80's and 90's built into major crossovers logically. Look at how the books led into the Dark Phoenix saga, Mutant Massacre, Fall of the mutants, Inferno....issues sometimes years in advance planted the seeds for an event that came up.
Characters grew in this period. Look at what Storm went thru...losing her powers and gaining them back, Logan going from the crazy runt with claws to the teams conscience, Banshee grew into the team mentor, Rogue went from villain to team mainstay to name a few. Where is the character growth now???
Scott forming an assasination team??? Emma sleeping her way to the top of the X-men???? Angel has bloodthirsty wings again...like we havent seen that before under better writers.

[blinkinrogue]

putting the better known writers and artists in the avengers titles?
putting the 2 top cash cows of marvel in avengers? take away spidey and wolverine, let's see how will sell
joe q. hates mutants i think :tongue:

[Roach5000]

actually I think if the X-books were allowed to be what they were ment to be instead of keeping them in a tiny part of the Marvel Universe than they would prosper

[Greg Anderson]

The X-titles used to be king of the hill, they sold like hot cakes.

If you opened up a Wizard magazine (remember when that still existed...) you would run into a myriad of x-related articles, but more importantly, you'd see the X-titles dominated the charts. Coming in at the #1 and #2 spot month after month after month.

So why are they struggling to get into the top ten these days?

What is it that makes the X-titles not as succesful as they once were?

They decided to crap on Bishop.

[Talisman]

They decided to crap on Bishop.
LOL. Yes, he has been the big draw for 4 decades.

[Mitteloss]

There's about 20 different books, infinite characters to keep track of, some of the writing and art choices have been questionable... people don't know where to begin.

I read comics as a kid, but stopped in 3rd grade because "it wasn't cool anymore", and when I decided I was a nerd anyway and it made no difference, picked them back up at the end of 5th grade. I remember starting again with New X-Men #126 and I think X-Men Unlimited :36. There was also Uncanny, X-Treme, plus a bunch of other spin-offs like Cable, Deadpool, Wolverine, Ultimate X-Men, etc. I remember thinking that some of them weren't "real", and that the only real stories were in New X-Men and Uncanny, "the core books". I picked up X-Treme and assumed it was alternate universe non-canon nonsense, but eventually got into it.

I think new readers have a hard time getting to the heart of what the deal is with the X-Men. No one starts with every X-Book. They start with one or two, then go onto a third, get overloaded and are all "wtf is this and which one should I be reading?"

I hope some of that helped explain.

I started reading X-Men comics (watched TAS since I was 3) around the same time (with New X-Men #117 and then worked my way back to 2000), and I thought exactly the same about X-Treme X-Men. Funny that.

[Daniel Mengsk]

LOL. Yes, he has been the big draw for 4 decades.

http://files.pierrenel.co.uk/full_of_win.jpg

[Grapeweasel]

In the old days, most of their readers were mutants.

After M-Day, most of them stopped buying it....

[Canterville]

I picked up my first ever American superhero comic this... May, I believe, and that was Dark Avengers. What pulled me into actually trying to start reading Marvel comics was the "Dark Reign" theme, because a lot of moreshots/series got started with that label and for the first time, it felt like maybe I have a chance to understand anything. So, marketing worked in my case. Maybe something similar for the X-Men would not be a bad thing, but then, I don't think it can really get them more sales in the long run.

Uncanny X-Men was my first X-title. I found it rather difficult to get into these stories because of the of the huge backstory every character has (fraptions can only get one so far). The only reason I actually started reading Uncanny was because I wanted to know more about Bishop and Wolverine, who I've seen in Avengers Invaders. And who are not currently in Uncanny. I then stayed - despite the sisterhood arc, which confused the hell out of me because I had no idea who these ladies were, nor could I tell them apart by their behaviour - because I had done some reading of the older comics and liked Nightcrawler. Sad to say, he's not in Uncanny either. Well, not really, anyway. But Utopia is good enough to keep my attention and I quite like Beast, too. But I'm pretty much lost at how many other X-Titles I should pay attention to and how they affect the general universe etc.

So yeah, tl;dr, from my own experience, I think the X-Men are not exactly gaining hordes of fans because of their easy accessibility. Though maybe it's easier outside Germany, because the guys in my local comic book shop couldn't even give me the slightest hints where to start either.

Sorry for stomping all over the English language.

[Greg Anderson]

LOL. Yes, he has been the big draw for 4 decades.

:biggrin: :biggrin:

[Nevets F]

Joe Quesada

This is the answer. Joe Quesada has intentionally changed the main franchise from the X-Men to the Avengers.

[Faded]

Avengers definitely are getting the attention, but they also have better BIG ideas than the X-Men have.

[Come To Deathstrike]

This is the answer. Joe Quesada has intentionally changed the main franchise from the X-Men to the Avengers.

And then he proceeded to kick it.

[littleredhat]

I read X-Factor and X-Force but I keep feeling that it would be so much better just to read one title. A weekly?

Anyway with how X-Men Forever is looking I'm thinking of just picking that up.

[spiderwire]

This is the answer. Joe Quesada has intentionally changed the main franchise from the X-Men to the Avengers.

That's just a lame @ss excuse. The X-Men family is just a product of bad story telling and way to many " events". The boat hasn't sank yet if Joe can get back to the basic core characters things should work out.

[Filthy Mutie]

That's just a lame @ss excuse. The X-Men family is just a product of bad story telling and way to many " events". The boat hasn't sank yet if Joe can get back to the basic core characters things should work out.

It's lame, but it's actually true. he has gone on the record saying the focus would be shifted. And it was, a while ago. Does this affect the quality of the books? That's debatable--it has certainly affected sales via marketing.

[marvell2100]

They're in some alt. future right now. They'll be back.

[direction9]

the xbooks used to the comics for cool kids. then marvel got its act together on the other books. now things are evened out.
the end.

[SayOcean]

The X-titles used to be king of the hill, they sold like hot cakes.

If you opened up a Wizard magazine (remember when that still existed...) you would run into a myriad of x-related articles, but more importantly, you'd see the X-titles dominated the charts. Coming in at the #1 and #2 spot month after month after month.

So why are they struggling to get into the top ten these days?

What is it that makes the X-titles not as succesful as they once were?Why is DC trolling the X boards?

It's so hard to jump on board as a new reader.....up to 25 X-books published per month....any new reader just gets put off by their inability to join the story....How often do we get new readers saying that very thing on the threads,posting requests on how to catch up on the story,it's nigh on impossible!....the X-mens ability to sell a huge number of titles per month will be their undoing eventuallyyou know that's so annoying when new readers say that......not every person into xmen started when it was just published.....I got into during the end of Gen X and I found these things called BACK ISSUES!!!! if i thought a character was interested i found some back issues and bought...they aren't that expensive and there's this thing called the internet thats pretty convenient if you have questions about certain x characters so asking for the fourth time how Magik can do magic is no longer required

LOL. Yes, he has been the big draw for 4 decades.no hes been a big draw for the last two

[Free-Man]

You certainly can't blame all of the X-Woes on the Avengers. I mean, who is the team with the successful movie, cartoon, and videogame franchises? By all rights, they should be outselling the Avengers.

I think part of the problem is that children are now a much smaller market fraction than they were in the 90's. Back then, I would think part of the X-universes's huge sales came from the fact that kids were watching the X-Men cartoons or playing thier video games.