what would you do with supergirl if you ran DC

[IamtheRock3]

Now that she around

What would you do with her
Put her on a team?
If so what?
Give her a comic?
A haiatus

[kane]

Kill her and make sure there is no supergirl again.

I don´t like the female versions of the heros. And i like superman to be really the last kryptonian.

[Jeff F]

Retcon the ending of Peter David's run into never having happened.

Retcon the last arc of S/B into never having happened.

Give Peter David back his Supergirl from where he left off.

[GUTB]

Zor-El and Danvers have a throw-down in Superman, with the girl from Krypton owning her like a rag doll and then packing her back off to Bete Noir where she belongs in her new series Fallen Angel which no one reads. Heh.

Seriously, she should loom large in the Superman books with an arc in Teen Titans, apperences in Batman and JLA. The bulk of her character and power exploration should be done in the Superman books. Spend some issues showing her developing attitude towards the world and humans, and establish her power range with some high-end feats. After a year, she should be ready for her own book which would concentrate of what Supergirl really should be about. First of all, the Super-myth is sci-fi not fantasy. So no demons or crap like that. Additionally, Superman is essentially upbeat, super-feats, and escapism. SG should be about this also but should be more character-driven.

PAD's Supergirl should be elminated from existance.

[marshal99]

All supergirls should die , they are defiling the heroic memory of the death of the true Kara Jor-EL.

[Kevin Street]

I like the new-old Supergirl, and I hope she sticks around in the DCU. But with the current market, giving her a title probably wouldn't be a good idea. The best move might be to just leave her in the background, popping up at major events and other superhero gatherings. She could appear in Superman's books from time to time, or other books as well, but it would be best to leave that to the discretion of the individual creators involved. That way she might appear once in awhile, or not, and the creators who do use her will be the ones who like the character, and her appearances will be notable because of that. It should always be a pleasant surprise kind of thing, and not any kind of editorial mandate to "use Supergirl."

[Gurl Reader]

Supes supposed to the last Kryptonian left but every few years they find someone from Krypton.WTF?

[Kevin Street]

He's not "supposed" to be the last Kryptonian. At first he thought he was, but that assumption was premature. There's Krypto and a bunch of Kandorians as well, including a "rogue cop" named Preus who's currently running around on Earth.

[GUTB]

And don't forget the Phantom Zone criminals...you they will eventually come back.

"KNEEEL before Zod!"

[Kevin Street]

Wasn't there a Zod in recent Superman continuity? I didn't read those issues, but I heard he had his own country or something.

[kane]

He's not "supposed" to be the last Kryptonian. At first he thought he was, but that assumption was premature. There's Krypto and a bunch of Kandorians as well, including a "rogue cop" named Preus who's currently running around on Earth.

Krypto is not a really Kryptonian dog, he is from the false Krypton created by Brianiac. And the post crisis Kandor is as far as i know also not kryptonian.

[Gauss]

Which Supergirl? I've got four at last count:

Kara Zor-el from Batman/Superman
Linda Danvers from Peter David's run
Matrix's ghost/soul/whatever from Peter David's run
Superman's Daughter from God knows what

Did I miss any? Are any of them confirmed dead?

[Anti-Lad]

Remove her from the shadow of Superman, place her in the Legion (again) which is the only place in the last 100 years she was her own defined person and not just-Superman's-cousin. She had her own place in the Legion, in fact, she was a member a lot longer than Superboy. Remove her a thousand years from Superman, and she will be terrific.

[Crowley]

Which Supergirl? I've got four at last count:

Kara Zor-el from Batman/Superman
Linda Danvers from Peter David's run
Matrix's ghost/soul/whatever from Peter David's run
Superman's Daughter from God knows what

Did I miss any? Are any of them confirmed dead?

Kara from Pad's run, Power Girl...

yeah it's silly

[tricksterpup]

Turn her into a super powered, super fantastic, super incredible Stripper. :D
oh wait, they did a cartoon of that.. :eek:

I would actually try to use both Supergirls, Linda Danvers and Kara. It would be very interesting and see them both meet.

[Cybak]

I had something really snarky to say about the new Supergirls (Cir-El and the Supes/Bats one) but Pax summed it up real well.




Retcon the ending of Peter David's run into never having happened.

Retcon the last arc of S/B into never having happened.

Give Peter David back his Supergirl from where he left off.



Also still have Benes on the team he could do two books, right?!

[Reptisaurus!]

Matrix/Blob Thing Never Happened.

Peter David's Run gets somehow retconned into Fallen Angel. It was either a fake Supergirl or never Supergirl.

Completely revert to Pre-Crisis continuity.

[Superboy Sr]

I would start out for the Search for Linda that would team up Kara and Powergirl with the Titans that Arsenal led. Then give her a book with Linda as her mentor and Power girl doing cameos for a while then make her part of the cast.

[KET]

Matrix/Blob Thing Never Happened.

Oh, it happened, all right. And I don't think DC has any plans to retcon it, either, since much of that period ties into one of their most popular SuperMAN eras (his death via Doomsday, and his subsequent return).

Peter David's Run gets somehow retconned into Fallen Angel. It was either a fake Supergirl or never Supergirl.

Why do people always feel the need to connect these two, just because both series have the same author and star a female protagonist? PAD's writing on his new series is very different than it was on SUPERGIRL.


Completely revert to Pre-Crisis continuity.

Been there, done that. ZZZZZZZZ....


Besides, with such Silver Age-raping 'events' as ID CRISIS currently going on, that idea seems incredibly unlikely now.

[KET]

Retcon the ending of Peter David's run into never having happened.

Retcon the last arc of S/B into never having happened.

Give Peter David back his Supergirl from where he left off.


Well, that would be MY dream scenario as well, so of course, this'll NEVER HAPPEN. :)


Although at this point, I'd go more for the idea of Linda becoming mentor to this 'new Kara'. She's got the hands-on experience.

[Reptisaurus!]

Oh, it happened, all right. And I don't think DC has any plans to retcon it, either, since much of that period ties into one of their most popular SuperMAN eras (his death via Doomsday, and his subsequent return).


Popular... Mebee. Sold a lot of copies to speculators who didn't read the books.

But this was a bad idea from the get-go. A pink blobby thing that sort of turns into an angel demon thing does *not* make for a relatable or effective hero.

And, since Super-Silly-Putty-Girl has been pretty much stuck in the backwoods of limbo never to be referenced again.

When was the last time we heard the Matrix Supergirl mentioned?

Yup. I rest my case.


Why do people always feel the need to connect these two, just because both series have the same author and star a female protagonist? PAD's writing on his new series is very different than it was on SUPERGIRL.


Because, well, there's a very good chance that the lead in Fallen Angel *is* the Peter David Supergirl.

From the Silver Bullet Comics site..



NASO: In the past people have suggested that Fallen Angel is really Linda Danvers, AKA Supergirl. You said you preferred readers to draw their own conclusions. It seems to me that Fallen Angel’s creator-owned status makes it impossible to actually come out and say Fallen Angel is Supergirl. However, now that more will be revealed about Fallen Angel’s past in issue 18, will readers also get a more definitive answer to the “Is Fallen Angel really Supergirl?” question?

DAVID: Although I can guarantee they’ll get a definitive answer to the background of Bete Noire in issue #18, I would say that the answer they’ll get to the Fallen Angel’s origins — the last panel of that issue — will certainly point the way more in one direction than the other. Beyond that, deponent sayeth not.




Been there, done that. ZZZZZZZZ....


Been there, done that, made good comics....

Which we haven't seen much of in the Superman-verse, lately.

Like, since Elliot S! Maggin left the title....

Besides, with such Silver Age-raping 'events' as ID CRISIS currently going on, that idea seems incredibly unlikely now.


Still, in the Superman books we've been seeing a slight return to the (much better) Pre-Crisis Superman continuity, even if the rest of the DCU isn't following suit.

So here's hoping.

[Son of Shadow]

I'm quite proud of the fact that this thread is two pages in and I'm the first one with a serious response. :) I wouldn't put her on an existing team since she's too young for the Outsiders, and seems redundant on the other 3. Maybe Doom Patrol ;) I'd give her her own title.

In the past, whenever Kal-El picks up strays, he dumps them with his parents. I don't think that he should do that this time for a couple of reasons:
-Been there, Done that.
-If there's ever a Superboy series, that would be the premise.
-I want to emphasize Kal-El's role as a parent, which has hardly been explored before. (Seagle tried, but did not succeed)

I would have her live with Lois and Clark in Metropolis. By her choice she will not be a public hero, but trains in secret with her cousin, not only to be a hero, but a human as well. I would emphasize her stranger-in-a-strange-land naivete, without making her too Seven-of-Nineish. The book will be all-ages, but will also deal with aspects of teenage sexuality. Basically play on the whole Alien/Adolescent metaphor. Also, unbeknownst to Clark, Kara will have a secret mentor who feels uniquely qualified to guide Kara. Her name? Linda Danvers.

Yeah, I think it could work. :)

[Robin3]

Based on the artwork in Superman/Batman, Supergirl is really hot. I'd play up her sexuality really high, I'm talking Little-Kim-level-high, and make her sort of a foil to prim and proper Superman.

"Kara! how could you have done that with the entire Green Lantern Corps?"

*giggle* "Well I do have super-speed and super-invulnerability. You should try it sometime."

Well next time tell me if you're going to help them save the universe before breakfast.
GOTCHA!!

[GUTB]

Exactly why she should not be placed with the Outsiders. She sees and hears everything.

I've heard excuses for making her live a human life with a secret ID and with a human family. But I have yet to hear anyone examine how a famous Kryptonian, family of Superman and most powerful teenager on the planet actually lives her life. Everyone asks WHY she moves in with the Kents or Danvers or someone else, but no one asks the even more basic question -- DOES she chose to move in with humans and live a human life?

[Daniel Lewis]

What would I do with Supergirl?

Well first I'd see if she was doing anything Saturday night, and if she wasn't, invite her to dinner....




.......wait oh, you meant in the comics! Um, er... :o

[GUTB]

Are you sure you want to be a Kryptonian's first...experience? Because if that's where you're headed you should pick up some life insurance.

[Daniel Lewis]

Are you sure you want to be a Kryptonian's first...experience? Because if that's where you're headed you should pick up some life insurance.

Life insurance is for sissies!!!

I'm a risk taker ;)

[KET]

Popular... Mebee. Sold a lot of copies to speculators who didn't read the books.


Not so fast with your little hand-wavin'. The Death and Return of Superman story arcs sold quite well, and are STILL BEST-SELLERS in TPB form. In fact, when all's said and done, they'll most likely still be BETTER REMEMBERED than what Jim Lee's doing with Supes now.


But this was a bad idea from the get-go. A pink blobby thing that sort of turns into an angel demon thing...

Uhmm, no. You know, if you're going OVERGENERALIZE, you really ought to know what you're talking about. There NEVER WAS any "blobby thing" that turned into "an angel demon thing" and called herself Supergirl.


And, since Super-Silly-Putty-Girl has been pretty much stuck in the backwoods of limbo never to be referenced again.

After about 17 years, and 80 solo issues of SUPERGIRL. Your point (that is, if you really HAD one)? :)

Sorry, but retcons and reboots do happen, especially when clueless editorial edicts and 'selective continuity' are now the order of the day at DC Comics. So go ahead and tell me that joke about Superman being a vegetarian now.



When was the last time we heard the Matrix Supergirl mentioned?

A couple of years ago. Sorry to hear you're suffering from ADD syndrome. :)


Because, well, there's a very good chance that the lead in Fallen Angel *is* the Peter David Supergirl.

From the Silver Bullet Comics site..


That's just idle fanboy speculation. PAD has never confirmed that there's a connection, and he likely NEVER WILL, since FALLEN ANGEL's still a NEW SERIES featuring a NEW CHARACTER. There's just no continuation from 'what went before'.



Been there, done that, made good comics....

LOL...you've GOT to be kidding. Any comics historians with half a brain will tell you that Supergirl stories from the Silver Age made for mostly DREARY READING, with their repetative clockwork plots, mediocre villains, and general all-around silliness. Even Elliot S! Maggin couldn't do anything interesting with Kara (although to be fair, he almost managed to come up some character evolution for her in SUPERMAN FAMILY for a couple of stories).


Still, in the Superman books we've been seeing a slight return to the (much better) Pre-Crisis Superman continuity...

This is purely delusional thinking. All Berganza's still serving up is yet more reruns of "Superman's Greatest Hits". Or do you really think such a thoroughly mediocre character as Preus is somehow going to last?

[marshal99]

I would make her become a super streetwalker , for those superheroes in need. ;)

Otherwise , i would make her play dead and stay that way. This current supergirl is crap and the writer Loeb should be shot for defiling the memory of the real Kara Jor-El.

[Legato]

Id give her to Gail Simone so that she could join BOP. She will come in handy when the BOP fights superpowered villains.

[GUTB]

A non-action oriented writer should never ever touch an S-sheild. They shouldn't touch superheroes period. But then, not a single name writer working at DC will really handle Supergirl properly. Maybe just a touch better than PAD, but at most all we'll get is a cheap re-hash of Silver Age crap; no one will even think about making something smart and fresh in the Super mythos. No one wants to rehabilitate Supers.

[thehod]

Have the Anti-Monitor beat the crap out of her.

No, wait, done that one before.

Aw well. It was such good fun seeing it the first time, I could stand to see it again.

[Avi Green]

I thought of having her joining the Teen Titans, and becoming romantically involved with Kid Flash, since they're both from far away places - she's from another planet, and he's from the future. So in other words, they could probably make an ideal couple together. :D

[Optimus]

I would let her have several different super identities. This would allow her to gradually get out of Superman's shadow when she wanted to, or retreat back to Super Girl identity for security. This would also allow her to wear different outfits each day. What girl do you know that likes to wear the same clothes every day? I have to stress 'girl' because I'm sure we all know 'that guy' who wears the same thing every day.

[SuperRepublican]

If I was writing for her, I'd have Super Girl surpass Superman's popularity with the DCU public. It doesn't bother Clark, because he's not the sort of man to be jealous. Lex Luthor, however, sees this as an oppurtunity. Lex pulls some strings and has the media portray Superman and Super Girl as rivals trying to one up eachother. One super-incredible feat by Superman, with Lex as a phantom puppetmaster behind it all, sways the public back into Superman's camp.

But Kara isn't Clark, and she sorely misses the spotlight. She turns the rivalry real, one upping Supes every chance she gets. Kara even goes as far as to 'cut off' Supes as he pulls people out of a burning apartment building. Clark makes an innocent comment about SG's immaturity, but she takes it the wrong way and gets offended. Onlookers watch as Kara confronts Clark about his 'arrogance'. Lex uses this against them, some rogues get involved, blah blah blah, the good guys eventually win, but not before boom tubes and predictable plot twists get in the way.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I really have no business posting here, since I haven't read Superman in about, oh, 3 or 4 years, but I do miss the PAD Supergirl series. It was different from just about anything I would have expected in a "Supergirl" series and it's too bad DC decided to pull back on the reigns and not continue to take risks with a character who had been pretty marginal up until then. Of course, the same can be said about DC's decision to boot PAD from the Aquaman series (I, for one, would have liked to see Aquaman become a water elemental). I have to agree with those who said they would retcon the ending of PAD's Supergirl series and let him continue on from there.

[Kevin Street]

I'm quite proud of the fact that this thread is two pages in and I'm the first one with a serious response. :)

Is that sarcasm, or haven't you been reading the thread? There have been lots of serious responses.

I would let her have several different super identities. This would allow her to gradually get out of Superman's shadow when she wanted to, or retreat back to Super Girl identity for security.

I like this idea. It's a bit like what Martian Manhunter does, but also a bit like The Human Target. Kara could try out a bunch of different lives in order to see which one "fit" her best, but might not be interested in settling down to any of them. With her powers, she could easily flit around the planet experiencing all the sights and sensations that Earth has to offer. Very different from her native Krypton, where she was stuck in one life and one place, with no powers.

Say, speaking of the Manhunter.... now there's a possible mentor figure for Supergirl. He's not related to her, but they share a similar situation. Both of them remember their home planets, and both of them are the prototypical "strangers in a strange land," but J'onn has had a lot of time to adapt to Earth. Superman grew up here, so there are certain aspects to Kara's situation that he may not understand.

[KET]

A non-action oriented writer should never ever touch an S-sheild. They shouldn't touch superheroes period.


I must disagree. I think that there's room for both action and introspection within superhero fare. And I don't think such a black and white solution would make for a realistic solution with these characters, as Marvel continues to prove that variety sells every month with their multi-flavored Fantastic Four series. All any of the Supers really need is a SMARTER editor than Berganza.



But then, not a single name writer working at DC will really handle Supergirl properly.


Well, I WOULD likely agree with this, except for the fact that Gail Simone does a fairly good job writing female crime-fighters in BIRDS OF PREY each month. However, merely recycling Supergirl's Silver Age riffs will surely result in marginalizing the character YET AGAIN to the dustbin of forgotten history.

[LiefieldFanboy]

I'm sorry, I initially thought you said would I do a "DP" with Supergirl and my answer would be a resounding yes! :D

[the Monitor]

Remove her from the shadow of Superman, place her in the Legion (again) which is the only place in the last 100 years she was her own defined person and not just-Superman's-cousin. She had her own place in the Legion, in fact, she was a member a lot longer than Superboy. Remove her a thousand years from Superman, and she will be terrific.

That would be a nice use of the character, as the link between the Superman family and the Legion.

[iwarrior]

I'd just have her pop up from time to time in the Superman books. I wouldn't give her her own book again.

[RedSpyda]

I'd have her join the Teen Titans

[KET]

I'd have her join the Teen Titans


She'd be redundant; Superboy's already in there...


...which is why back in the Silver Age, Supergirl eventually became a Legion reservist, as she ALWAYS took a back seat to Superboy's presence on that team as well.

[NickVinson]

Her own series. Have her going around training to be a hero. The series would be a literal who's who/DC Comics Presents. The Amazons teaching her to fight. She could be on Rann helping Adam Strange kick ass in space. Have BoP teach her to work with a unite. The JSA could instill the idea of legacy and commitment. Space Cabby could teach her how to drive. :D

I dont know. Seems fairly interesting. At least for a first arc of sorts.

[KET]

Her own series. Have her going around training to be a hero. The series would be a literal who's who/DC Comics Presents. The Amazons teaching her to fight. She could be on Rann helping Adam Strange kick ass in space. Have BoP teach her to work with a unite. The JSA could instill the idea of legacy and commitment. Space Cabby could teach her how to drive. :D

I dont know. Seems fairly interesting. At least for a first arc of sorts.



LOL....it sounds like you're unsure that this would work. Unfortunately, you'd be RIGHT, also. :)

The major problem with this 'new' Supergirl is that DC is making her much TOO EAGER TO PLEASE, and thus, she's more liable to end up revolving around some rather mundane and contrived setups for her to be able to DO ANYTHING at all.

[Detective#27]

I'd have her under Bat's wing. I wonder what will happened?

[SuperThinker]

I let J. Leob work on it! He did a find job on "returning her", and I'm not
a "Kara Zor-El" fan, I'm a "Kara In-Ze" fan! I can't wait for the new
"Supergirl" series! This one is put together so well--I can't wait for
her next apprance. I belive you mistaked "moody" for "eager", most
teenage female are "moody". Depsite you HATE of the new Supergirl,
you [read: KET] need to put up your web page back--because recently DC Comics accounced the second "Supergirl" series will start this year! No joke! It's not even April 1, yet.

Flying off,
Dr. Thinker

[Ironmanski]

They should like re-create the original Supergirl into like an Eradicator
type being Supergirl with a dark edge to her.

[Ecoman]

Now that she around

What would you do with her
Put her on a team?
If so what?
Give her a comic?
A haiatus

I would find some way to bring her to life then I would do it to her like they do on the discovery channel and then sell her to someone on ebay. :D

[TomGun13]

I would have her give up her life in this great battle between the Positive Matter Universe and the Anti Matter Universe!

[Screwtape]

I love the Supergirl character. I'd give her more "out there" stories; the Earth-2, Earth-1024x786 kind. That's the stuff that Superman doesn't do anymore, and somebody should. It would also be fun to have her cross over with Batman, since she's even sunnier than he is, and female.

[EmmaFrostSlavingFanBoy]

You have to somehow square the Supergirl from S/B with the last six issues of PAD's supgergirl and the Crisis. I liked Linda Danvers as supergirl, but she left.

Does Kara remember her time with Linda Danvers? Did that happen? I say issues 75-80 of the PAD supergirl gets retconed out of existence. There's no other way? Let's just say Linda Danvers has some sort of mental breakdown and that 75-80 were a dream, but Linda believed that it actually happened and she flips out and is never seen again. Let's say Buzz does this to her.

Then create a new supergirl book, but with lots of guest stars like Mary Marvel.

[Maestro]

I'd make her more similar to her animated counterpart in the DCAU. Born on Krypton's sister planet, white shirt, etc.

[Indigo Al]

Does the pocket Universe from the Byrne revamp (where Matrix came from) still exist?

If not, I'd have her move to some Hypertime reality where she's the only superbeing on the planet, and take it from there....just as Warren Ellis once suggested for Superman's ongoing future.

She can crossover with cuz Kal from time to time.

[KET]

You have to somehow square the Supergirl from S/B with the last six issues of PAD's supergirl and the Crisis.

Actually, you don't have to, 'cause Jeph Loeb never does. If it was my decision, I'd just let Darkseid off the Olsen Twins clone, and then usher in PAD's intended "Blonde Justice" idea.




I liked Linda Danvers as supergirl, but she left.

So did Clark Kent for a time; that didn't stop him from coming back... :)

[KET]

I let J. Leob work on it! He did a find job on "returning her", and I'm not
a "Kara Zor-El" fan, I'm a "Kara In-Ze" fan! I can't wait for the new
"Supergirl" series!

Well, bully for you. Personally, I've got far better things to do than to waste money on Jeph Loeb's latest overripe ego trip (with one of his drinking buddies along for the free ride).


you need to put up your web page back--because recently DC Comics accounced the second "Supergirl" series will start this year! No joke!

Well, frankly, it SURE READS LIKE A JOKE, given the so-called 'creative team' they've announced. You forget that Jeph Loeb has a compulsive habit of rabbitting whenever sales start to sink on his ongoing series. So I expect to see Loeb off of Supergirl by the middle of next year (if the title isn't already prematurely cancelled by then).

[Sac]

What's I'd do is team her up with Booster Gold and then quickly fase out Supergirl. But that's just me :)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Kill her and make sure there is no supergirl again.

I don´t like the female versions of the heros. And i like superman to be really the last kryptonian.

AGREED COMPLETELY.

Superman should be THE LAST Kryptonian.

[mickydmm]

Get Power girl's life/ origin sorted out first, then deal with Karra ( daughter of Zor El ) El the original Super girl.

[We R. Venom]

theres no fixing it. really there isnt. itll always be messed up. she's died, too many times. Marvel could fix it however, hahahahahahhaa.

[Kojiro]

What would I do with Supergirl, huh? Hm....

Kill her, then introduce a new version, kill that one, introduce another new version, kill her too, introduce yet another version, and kill her, introduce another..... :rolleyes:

[/cynicism]

[karalives]

Well I really can't say what I would do because I am saving that for the DC people.. I plan on writing her one day and believe that I have a great story!!.. I have been working on it for about 4 years now and it would take about a year and a half to tell in the 22 page comic version.... and nothing drawn out like Superman: For Tomorrow....

[Superboy Sr]

I would have Kara and Batgirl team with Powergirl and the BOP to search for Linda that leads to Bette Noir,so we finally find out if Fallen Angel is Linda!!

[Agentum]

What would I do with Supergirl, huh? Hm....

Kill her, then introduce a new version, kill that one, introduce another new version, kill her too, introduce yet another version, and kill her, introduce another..... :rolleyes:

[/cynicism]
hahahahahhaha, hmmm.......do you work for DC?


I would kill off the current one and never introduce any other survivors from Krypton, its's enogh with Powergirl.

AAAAA i waked up an old tread, sorry.

[MythicBrawn]

I never would have brought her back. But, if DC deemed that I must bring her back, then that costume would be different. The stupid mini-skirt has got to go. Also, simply stating that she is stronger because she had a sun lamp on her is just plain dumb. How about making her powers slightly different. Superman would be physically stronger because he's male. But, then Supergirl would be stronger/better in some other way because she's female. I'm not sure what ways that could be. I'm sure the women on the board could throw out some great suggestions. It would be a matter of being creative.

[geordiesteve]

I never would have brought her back. But, if DC deemed that I must bring her back, then that costume would be different. The stupid mini-skirt has got to go. Also, simply stating that she is stronger because she had a sun lamp on her is just plain dumb. How about making her powers slightly different. Superman would be physically stronger because he's male. But, then Supergirl would be stronger/better in some other way because she's female. I'm not sure what ways that could be. I'm sure the women on the board could throw out some great suggestions. It would be a matter of being creative.

I agree the who titilation thing with the mini skirt might appeal to young boys, as does the huge splash panels that Turner uses. The artwork is fantastic, the story from the first three issues could have been told in one and a half issues, possibly less. I would like a story if I was in control of Supergirl.

I too would push the differences between her and Kal-El, different powers, her opinion and way of doing things. She would, if I was in charge, be searching for an identity, as someone with powers in that community and also a person, and one that is not always tied to the Superman legacy. I just don't feel that this story is being told. The monthly Supergirl vs issues are boring, repetitive and great for turning into posters to go onto the wall.

I would ditch the costume she has, possibly the S shield altogether for the time being until she has found a place for herself as a person and not just yet another power to have on various team rosters as well as someone they bring out for special events.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Simple, replace her with Power Girl.


No, I don't mean Power Girl should be Supergirl, but make Power Girl a primary female heroine.

[PatrickG]

I think all Kara really needs is her own SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS type story.

Loeb may be gone but Tim Sale is still around. Maybe Kurt Busiek on writing?

I think what we've missed with her so far is her experience. How earth's sunlight feels to her. How the air she breathes feels. Her emotional journey as a survivor.

[Alan2099]

Crisis of Infinite Supergirls! (notice I didn't say "Crisis on..." that creates a totally different image.)

First we bring together all the Supergirls, Linda, Kara, movie, animated, Pre-Crisis, etc etc. and end the story witha Supergirl that's part of the essence of all of them. Basically have the character come across like the animated Supergirl with the Linda costume and short cape.

From there, let's go with some good old fashioned wacky super heroics. Bring in characters that you never expected to actually see used in comics again. Silver Ages tyle stuff. Have her fight an army of purple space gorillas led by her evil clone. That sort of thing.

Make her want to be Supergirl and not stuck with any kind of secret identity. Send her traveling around seeing this new world. Teaming up with lots of people while she tries to learn to fit in.

[drpblunt]

alan moore wrote the best treatment for the return of supergirl (as a stranger in a strange land) with his introduction of suprema in the supreme series (for that matter his run on supreme was a far better treatment of superman's mythos in general)

with that said, i would try and actually define her persona and make her more if a window into krypton, she spent what like 16yrs growing up on another planet that is now destroyed, she should be supes anchor to the home he never knew. she could teach him about what it means to be kryptonian and he could teach her how to adjust to humanity, in some ways she would almost be a mentor to supes.

i would get rid of the silly outfit (always liked the animated version/linda danvers look better) and not write her like "britney zor-el", for a girl raised on another planet she seems awfly influced by american pop culture and her dialoge so far doesn't make me believe she grew up in another world

[Forsaken_One]

At the risk of sounding boring I'd try to find the best writer of the Superman team and ask them to use her as a backup character on occasion. Give her some personality, let her have some off-screen adventures and some one-screen helping/heart to hearts with the other supporting cast and/or Superman and overall try to flesh out her character a bit.

But hey, if I was really in DC and I saw that the profits would be better if I handed her off in her own comic to a media-buzz writer, regardless of quality or the lack of it, I'd probably end up doing that. Because, in the end, I don't think anyone really leaves comics because one of them (or a character in them) isn't to their liking. :)

[Dhusk]

A serious answer:

I would kill off Kara Zor-El if at all possible. She has always been a horribly written and badly conceived character (Superman's cousin!!!! Wow, aren't we original????), both in the Silver Age and now. The only interesting thing she EVER did was get killed by the Anti-Monitor.

But DC as it currently stands wouldn't let me, so I'd make her into a villain. She's already vapid, self-absorbed, violent, and shallow, so it seems a logical progression for the character. Let her cross the line, kill somebody, and discover she likes it a lot. She could have a lot of potential as an enemy for Superman, someone who shares his powers and origins, but turns out to be diamterically opposed to him morally.

Then I'd bring back Peter David's supergirl and give her back her full range of angelic powers, and then have her kick the holy bejeezus out of Kara. Just to show that the "S" isn't something you automatically get just because you come from Krypton, but that it comes from the principles you uphold, something Kara has utterly failed in.

[geordiesteve]

alan moore wrote the best treatment for the return of supergirl (as a stranger in a strange land) with his introduction of suprema in the supreme series (for that matter his run on supreme was a far better treatment of superman's mythos in general)

with that said, i would try and actually define her persona and make her more if a window into krypton, she spent what like 16yrs growing up on another planet that is now destroyed, she should be supes anchor to the home he never knew. she could teach him about what it means to be kryptonian and he could teach her how to adjust to humanity, in some ways she would almost be a mentor to supes.

i would get rid of the silly outfit (always liked the animated version/linda danvers look better) and not write her like "britney zor-el", for a girl raised on another planet she seems awfly influced by american pop culture and her dialoge so far doesn't make me believe she grew up in another world

Definitely agree with the whole britney spin they are putting on her. To be honest, I would give more female characters to female writers, like Gail Simone, or Devin Grayson, or hey, here's a wacky idea, get in some female writers from other areas since there aren't that many in the business. They are doing it with great success with people like Allan Heinberg etc, why not get a female equivalent, maybe Marti Noxon, or someone else from Buffy who knows how to write female characters without it being short skirts over a quality story.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

And let's all blame DC and Jeph Loeb for this.

She shouldn't have come back, dammit.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Keep the version they have now. Her origin is simple and easy to understand, but they need to start developing an interesting personality for her. Relying upon T&A and gratuitous fight scenes ain't gonna work.

With Rucka onboard, hopefully they can salvage the character before its too late. But, given how unsucessful his Wonder Woman was, maybe he won't be able to pull it off.

[PatrickG]

Definitely agree with the whole britney spin they are putting on her. To be honest, I would give more female characters to female writers, like Gail Simone, or Devin Grayson, or hey, here's a wacky idea, get in some female writers from other areas since there aren't that many in the business. They are doing it with great success with people like Allan Heinberg etc, why not get a female equivalent, maybe Marti Noxon, or someone else from Buffy who knows how to write female characters without it being short skirts over a quality story.

Y'Know... I have a feeling Marti Noxon would have Kara sleeping with Lex within six issues. Noxon's talented but she goes for a little TOO MUCH drama, IMO.

Why not Jane Espenson? She's from TV. She's already written Buffy comics.

I'd love to see her make her DC debut on Supergirl.

[stealthwise]

I'd beg Neil Gaiman to take over the character.

Then again, if I were an exec at DC, I'd be begging him to write for a lot of titles. But I think that he'd be able to give her an interesting personality, having written so many popular characters (many of which were female).

Grant Morrison would be another great choice, if he were up to it.

[Dhusk]

Her origin is simple and easy to understand...

You know, I'm really getting sick and tired of people using this line, especially certain comic book creators who are using it as an excuse to bring back completely useless and poorly-conceived characters to begin with.

A complex origin did not keep the likes of characters like Wolverine, Goku, or Sailor Moon from becoming ridiculously popular. Peter David's Supergirl had a more complex origin than those versions before and after her, and yet she was able to carry a comic book of her own for far longer.

Its all in the execution, baby.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

You know, I'm really getting sick and tired of people using this line, especially certain comic book creators who are using it as an excuse to bring back completely useless and poorly-conceived characters to begin with.

A complex origin did not keep the likes of characters like Wolverine, Goku, or Sailor Moon from becoming ridiculously popular. Peter David's Supergirl had a more complex origin than those versions before and after her, and yet she was able to carry a comic book of her own for far longer.

Its all in the execution, baby.

Wolverine's origin wasn't very complicated when he first became popular. It was mysterious. That's not complicated. Now that the mystery is gone, yeah, its really complicated and we'll see what that does to the character.

Goku and Sailor Moon aren't my cup of tea, complex origin or no.

Regardless simplifying Supergirl down to Superman's cousin is a vast improvement upon a protoplasmic artifical being from an alternate reality that merged with a dying teenage girl and became an "Earth Angel" was a good idea, despite Loeb's shoddy reintroduction of the character.

This is not to say that good stories could be told with both these characters. Peter David told some great stories with the "Earth Angel" incarnation, but, her overly convoluted origin kept a lot of potential readers away. Even David himself admited as much.

[KET]

Wolverine's origin wasn't very complicated when he first became popular. It was mysterious. That's not complicated. Now that the mystery is gone, yeah, its really complicated and we'll see what that does to the character.


Probably won't change a thing, since he's now a movie star, too. :D


Goku and Sailor Moon aren't my cup of tea, complex origin or no.

Yet at this point, either of them are vastly more popular than Superman is.

Perhaps DC should've taken a cue from these characters, and re-introduced Supergirl in a manga style, then separate her from the regular DCU altogether. Just do a riff off her JLU incarnation, and dump the Britney/Paris wannabe altogether.


Regardless simplifying Supergirl down to Superman's cousin is a vast improvement....

Not really. It's merely a cheap cop-out by a creatively bankrupt writer and his equally shallow editor Berganza. DiDio went along with it because he smelled the easy nostalgia money.


Peter David told some great stories with the "Earth Angel" incarnation, but, her overly convoluted origin kept a lot of potential readers away. Even David himself admited as much.

I don't think so; PAD said that two things kept readers away from his SG:

1. She wasn't Kara Zor-El
2. DC's lack of support, and thoroughly inconsistant promotion of the title. If PAD's series had gotten even half the hype Loeb got freely for his current waste of paper, then it would still be around today.

[KET]

AAAAA i waked up an old thread, sorry.

Yet I gotta admit....resurrecting this thread seems rather APPROPRIATE for this character, since DC's again making the same mistakes they did with her over 20 years ago.

[Lurker]

Yet at this point, either of them are vastly more popular than Superman is.


Superman's an even bigger movie star than Wolverine. I have doubts that Sailor Moon and Goku are more in the collective conscience than Clark.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yet at this point, either of them are vastly more popular than Superman is.


What!?

This is so untrue I don't see any point in talking further about this. Obviously, reality is a very different thing for you than it is for me if you think Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon are vastly more popular than Superman.

I've been to dozens of different countries over the past several years and, trust me,everybody knows who Superman is, no matter where they come from or how old they are.

[Dhusk]

Regardless simplifying Supergirl down to Superman's cousin is a vast improvement upon a protoplasmic artifical being from an alternate reality that merged with a dying teenage girl and became an "Earth Angel" was a good idea, despite Loeb's shoddy reintroduction of the character.

I fail to see how "simplifying" an origin is an improvement. In Supergirl's case, it seems a lot more like a huge lack of imagination when they first dreamed her up.

Editor #1: We need a female superman character that would appeal to young girls so we can sell more comics.

Editor #2: Er, how about Superman's, uh, I dunno, cousin?

Editor #1: Bingo. Make her a blond cardboard female cliche like we have here in the 50s, and make sure she wears a skirt. Now get me some coffee, I gotta go tee off.

Total elapsed creative time: 5 seconds.

Decades later, after many years of trying to bring thoughtful, mature storylines with three dimensional characters into mainstream comics, we're back to the astounding mental leap of Supergirl being (ugh) Superman's cousin, but with "attitude." Yeah, what a vast improvement, seeing as readers would never subject themselves to the horror of reading a one-paragraph origin instead of a two-word one. No insult to the intelligence there.

Kara Zor-El is NOT a "vast improvement" over Linda Danvers in any conceivable way, and certainly not because her origin is "simplified." Its a huge step backwards and a vast disservice to the reading audience, actually, to replace a well-developed and interesting character with a vapid collection of bad cliches just so they can have a "simple" character origin.

And Goku and Sailor Moon have earned much more $$$ worldwide in the past decade than Superman has. If you ask a kid nowadays whether they'd want DBZ (for boys) or Sailor Moon (for girls and creepy older guys) toys, or Superman merchandise, ain't too many are gonna pick Superman.

[stealthwise]

And Goku and Sailor Moon have earned much more $$$ worldwide in the past decade than Superman has. If you ask a kid nowadays whether they'd want DBZ (for boys) or Sailor Moon (for girls and creepy older guys) toys, or Superman merchandise, ain't too many are gonna pick Superman.

Dude, it's 2006, not 1996.

No one cares about Sailor Moon or Dragon Ball Z anymore, they watch Spongebob and Teen Titans and crap.

Superman's merchandise is worth more than just about any other character in existence, and with the recent movie, expect those figures to re-explode.

I agree with you about most of the Supergirl stuff, but your obsession with Superman not being in the public consciousness is ridiculous. It's like saying that Nickelback is more popular than the Beatles.

[Guts/Batman]

I would give her a writer who could give her some personality. A reader some reason to care for her. Her smacking various teams around didn't help in that department.

It just cemented her joke status to me.

Gail would be my move on it. Of all the current writers that could do this, I trust Gail above them all.

Goku's origin is complicated? How? It's the same damn thing as Superman and Kara Zor-El (minus the years in stasis).

[Guts/Batman]

With Rucka onboard, hopefully they can salvage the character before its too late. But, given how unsucessful his Wonder Woman was, maybe he won't be able to pull it off.

Rucka's WW and Adventures haven't impressed me much. His IC related stuff is utterly...uninspiring.

However, I hope his non-related IC stuff will return to form.

[KET]

Superman's an even bigger movie star than Wolverine.

This remains to be seen, later this summer. However, the preview trailers for Singer's movie seem awfully reliant upon 70s nostalgia, and that doesn't bode well.


I have doubts that Sailor Moon and Goku are more in the collective conscience than Clark.

Sorry, but 'collective conscience' doesn't always sell comic books. Mickey Mouse is just as prominent an icon as Superman; how many best-selling comics does he appear in today?

[KET]

This is so untrue I don't see any point in talking further about this. Obviously, reality is a very different thing for you than it is for me if you think Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon are vastly more popular than Superman.

They ARE, in comic books.

Sorry, but you're confusing 'recognition factor' with 'selling factor'. For decades now, Superman hasn't been selling in comics all that well; otherwise, DC wouldn't have to resort to yearly rotating 'superstar teams' in order to drum up interest in the character.

[drpblunt]

i think the origion issue is less important than what a writer does with the character, when PAD started writing supergirl the characters background was a real mess, but he took that mess and "created" a very good 3 dimensional character that readers could relate to. the same thing needs to happen with this new SG, its not the origin thats at issue, its what their doing with the character.

she reads as a teen girl as seen thru the eyes of an out of touch 40+ year old male :)

simple origin or complicated origin, either way if you have a crappy writer you have a crappy product.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

They ARE, in comic books.

Sorry, but you're confusing 'recognition factor' with 'selling factor'. For decades now, Superman hasn't been selling in comics all that well; otherwise, DC wouldn't have to resort to yearly rotating 'superstar teams' in order to drum up interest in the character.

Ah, that makes much more sense if you're only talking about the comics. That makes a HUGE difference in what you're saying.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

i think the origion issue is less important than what a writer does with the character, when PAD started writing supergirl the characters background was a real mess, but he took that mess and "created" a very good 3 dimensional character that readers could relate to. the same thing needs to happen with this new SG, its not the origin thats at issue, its what their doing with the character.

she reads as a teen girl as seen thru the eyes of an out of touch 40+ year old male :)

simple origin or complicated origin, either way if you have a crappy writer you have a crappy product.

Agreed. It doesn't matter what the origin is if the stories suck...which Loeb's Supergirl stories have thus far.

[Lurker]

This remains to be seen, later this summer. However, the preview trailers for Singer's movie seem awfully reliant upon 70s nostalgia, and that doesn't bode well.

So if I said Robert De Niro was a movie star you'd that would remain to be seen since he hasn't put out a movie yet this year?

Superman's a movie star! Has been since '78.




Sorry, but 'collective conscience' doesn't always sell comic books. Mickey Mouse is just as prominent an icon as Superman; how many best-selling comics does he appear in today?

Really

I defy you to produce a Diamond chart over the past 12 months where a Goku or Sailor Moon comic has sold more than a Superman book.

[Lurker]

Ah, that makes much more sense if you're only talking about the comics. That makes a HUGE difference in what you're saying.

No, it doesn't.

[stealthwise]

I defy you to produce a Diamond chart over the past 12 months where a Goku or Sailor Moon comic has sold more than a Superman book.

Er... does Diamond even chart manga? Which audience are we talking about here, North American or Japanese or worldwide or what?

Bored's right, the issue becomes clouded when you're talking specifically about comics.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does. Worldwide, Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z comics sell in far larger numbers than the Superman line has for several years. Therefore, it would be accurate to say that they are vastly more popular than Superman is in terms of comics being sold.

However, it is crazy talk to say Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z are more popular than Superman in you're talking about almost any other media. Superman has been a worldwide cultural icon for decades now. There's very little that could complete with that.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I defy you to produce a Diamond chart over the past 12 months where a Goku or Sailor Moon comic has sold more than a Superman book.

That's because Diamond charts don't list manga comics, which Dragonball and Sailor Moon are. So that proves absolutely nothing.

[Lurker]

I still want see a Diamond chart where a Sailor Moon comic, pause for effect on the word "comic" has sold more copies than the Supreman line.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I still want see a Diamond chart where a Sailor Moon comic, pause for effect on the word "comic" has sold more copies than the Supreman line.

I don't follow you. Manga comics aren't comics or something?

[Lurker]

So that proves absolutely nothing.

Well, what could prove something or we just talking in terms of I'm smarter than you so there?

[Lurker]

They ARE, in comic books.

This is what I'm going off of; first it was more popular period but apparently that was mis-constued.

Are Mangas comic books?

Are they Graphic Novels?

Are they periodicals?

I don't know, somebody might have to tell me.

Are they distributed like comics?

Is there a way to track how much they sell?

And yes, I believe Diamond does have a sales chart for manga?

And don't tell me Sailor Moon sells more comic books, show me

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Well, what could prove something or we just talking in terms of I'm smarter than you so there?

It has nothing to do with how smart either one of us is. My point is that saying you can't find a Sailor Moon comic that's outsold a Superman comic on a Diamond sales chart means nothing because you won't find a Sailor Moon comic on a Diamond sales chart. As far as I know, Diamond doesn't list manga comics.

This is like saying you won't find bananas that outsell celery in a vegetable sales chart.

[Lurker]

Rank Item Code Title Price Pub
1 MAY050043 SAMURAI EXECUTIONER VOL 7 TP $9.95 DAR
2 SEP053234 NARUTO VOL 8 TP $7.95 VIZ
3 SEP053235 RUROUNI KENSHIN VOL 21 TP $7.95 VIZ
4 OCT053231 KINGDOM HEARTS VOL 2 GN (Of 4) $5.99 TKP
5 OCT052914 NEGIMA VOL 8 GN (MR) $10.95 RAN
6 OCT053218 DEARS VOL 5 GN (Of 7) $9.99 TKP
7 JUL050053 OH MY GODDESS VOL 1 AUTHENTIC ED TP $10.95 DAR
8 JUL050050 HELLSING IMPURE SOULS ANIME MANGA TP $14.95 DAR
9 SEP053275 HOT GIMMICK VOL 10 TP $9.99 VIZ
10 OCT053340 RUROUNI KENSHIN VOL 22 TP $7.95 VIZ
11 SEP053233 DRAGONBALL Z VOL 23 TP $7.95 VIZ
12 AUG052876 JAZZ VOL 1 GN $12.95 GRS
13 SEP050016 REIKO ZOMBIE SHOP VOL 1 TP $12.95 DAR
14 SEP052656 LAGOON ENGINE EINSATZ MANGA VOL 1 TP $10.95 ADV
15 AUG052879 OUR KINGDOM VOL 1 GN $12.95 GRS
16 OCT053228 RG VEDA VOL 4 GN (Of 10) $9.99 TKP
17 SEP053269 ANGEL SANCTUARY VOL 11 GN $9.99 VIZ
18 OCT053223 MAHOROMATIC AUTOMATIC MAIDEN VOL 8 GN (Of 8) (MR) $9.99 TKP
19 JUL052802 ANTIQUE BAKERY VOL 2 GN $12.95 GRS
20 SEP053273 HANA KIMI VOL 9 GN $9.99 VIZ
21 SEP050015 LADY SNOWBLOOD VOL 2 DEEP SEATED GRUDGE TP (MR) (C: 3 & $14.95 DAR
22 OCT052936 BEYOND MY TOUCH VOL 1 GN $12.95 GRS
23 AUG053284 FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST VOL 4 TP $9.99 VIZ
24 AUG052877 LA ESPERANCA VOL 1 GN $12.95 GRS
25 OCT053229 SCRAPPED PRINCESS VOL 2 GN (Of 3) $9.99 TKP
26 SEP053242 YU GI OH DUELIST VOL 11 TP $7.95 VIZ
27 AUG052875 CAFE KICHIJOUJI DE VOL 1 GN $12.95 GRS
28 AUG058160 TEZUKAS BUDDHA VOL 7 PRINCE AJATASATTU HC $24.95 NAT
29 OCT053224 MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM ECOLE DU CIEL VOL 2 GN (Of 5) $9.99 TKP
30 SEP053243 YU GI OH MILLENNIUM WORLD VOL 2 TP $7.95 VIZ
31 OCT053227 REMOTE VOL 8 GN (Of 10) (MR) $9.99 TKP
32 OCT053209 SENGOKU NIGHTS VOL 1 GN (Of 2) $9.99 TKP
33 OCT053226 PHD PHANTASY DEGREE VOL 5 GN (Of 8) $9.99 TKP
34 OCT053206 DRAGON HEAD VOL 1 GN (Of 10) $9.99 TKP
35 OCT053215 COMIC PARTY VOL 5 GN (TKP) $9.99 TKP
36 SEP053277 SENSUAL PHRASE VOL 11 TP (MR) $9.99 VIZ
37 OCT053214 CHRONICLES O/T CURSED SWORD VOL 14 GN (Of 19) $9.99 TKP
38 SEP053276 KARE FIRST LOVE VOL 6 TP $9.99 VIZ
39 OCT053221 HYPER POLICE VOL 5 GN (Of 9) (MR) $9.99 TKP
40 OCT053211 ULTRA CUTE VOL 1 GN (Of 9) $9.99 TKP
41 SEP050014 HARLEQUIN VIOLET RESPONSE TP (MR) $9.95 DAR
42 OCT053201 JUROR 13 GN $9.99 TKP
43 SEP050013 HARLEQUIN PINK GIRL I/MILLION TP $9.95 DAR
44 OCT053245 WILD ROCK GN (MR) $9.99 TKP
45 OCT053219 HANDS OFF VOL 5 GN (Of 8) $9.99 TKP
46 OCT053338 ONE PIECE VOL 9 GN $7.95 VIZ
47 OCT053351 DEATH NOTE VOL 3 TP $7.99 VIZ
48 SEP053272 BOYS OVER FLOWERS VOL 15 TP $9.99 VIZ
49 OCT053210 SMUGGLER GN $9.99 TKP
50 MAY053073 NARUTO VOL 7 TP $7.95 VIZ

[Lurker]

That's because Diamond charts don't list manga comics, which Dragonball and Sailor Moon are. So that proves absolutely nothing.

Please see the above post.

All I'm saying is, if someone presents an idea as a fact rather than an opinion, especially on these boards, I'd like to see proof before I get back in the sheep herd.

[stealthwise]

Please see the above post.

All I'm saying is, if something is presents an idea as a fact rather than an opinion, especially on these boards, I'd like to see proof before I get back in the sheep herd.

That's a list of tpbs though.

Are there individual sales comparisons, ie, actual sales numbers to compare with the sales of, say, the Lex Luthor: Man of Steel tpb (that's the only recent Superman tpb I could think of, I'm sure there are others)?

Then you also have to answer my question about context? Are we only looking at North America here? What about the creative teams on the Superman books, they make a huge difference. I'm sure that Azz/Lee's run did much better than Chuck Austen's books.

Here, I found something:

Lex Luthor: Man of Steel sold 3,846 copies
Dragon Ball Z volume 23 sold 1,617 copies

What's the context though? Is that DBZ new? I'm confused.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This is what I'm going off of; first it was more popular period but apparently that was mis-constued.

Are Mangas comic books?

Are they Graphic Novels?

Are they periodicals?

I don't know, somebody might have to tell me.]

Manga comics are comic books.

Graphic Novels are comic books, so, yeah, Manga comics are graphic novels too.

Some manga comics are released monthly, I believe.


Are they distributed like comics?]

As your Diamond Manga chart shows, there are clearly some manga comics distributed through Diamond, like DC & Marvel comics are, but the vast majority of Manga comics are distributed through other means.


Is there a way to track how much they sell?

And yes, I believe Diamond does have a sales chart for manga?

And don't tell me Sailor Moon sells more comic books, show me

There must be sales charts out there for manga comics, but I sure wouldn't know where to look for them. I don't read manga and don't have much interest in them. However, it is common knowledge at this point that manga comics are selling far more than more traditional American-style comics are. Manga comics sell in the millions, whereas the top selling comic on the Diamond charts is only a couple hundred thousand.

If you really want proof of this, you can look for it yourself if you'd like, or perhaps KET can if he's so inclined. I'm not really interested in pursuing this any further. KET made the assertion, not me. I thought it was ridiculous statement until he put it in context. And, in the context of how many comic books are sold, then, yes, I'm sure Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon do sell far more comics than Superman does right now.

I don't think this has much to do with giving Supergirl her original origin back, but it was an interesting diversion for a little bit...

[Lurker]

I'm confused.

I'm confused too, it all comes down to the orginal poster's intent ie what he meant by DBZ sells more comic books than Superman.

[Lurker]

Sorry if I offended anybody here playing Devil's Adovocate, but again notice one poster explicitly stated that the list I provided were "only TPBs" while another stated "Garphic Novels (ie TPBs) ARE comic books" proving, in my mind at least, the subjective nature of the argument that DBZ or Sailor Moon sells more comic books than Superman which renders such an argument moot.

[stealthwise]

Sorry if I offended anybody here playing Devil's Adovocate, but again notice one poster explicitly stated that the list I provided were "only TPBs" while another stated "Garphic Novels (ie TPBs) ARE comic books" proving, in my mind at least, the subjective nature of the argument that DBZ or Sailor Moon sells more comic books than Superman which renders such an argument moot.

True. I just assumed from the getgo that we were talking about overall popularity and presence in the public consciousness, which is why I made my original statement.

After all, Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon, while popular even today, are still basically the Transformers and She-Ra's of tomorrow.

[Supes35]

Give Supergirl a love interest, PLEASE!

[Guts/Batman]

The thing about manga is that most take a long time to get translated and are therefore read online (via scanlations) but there get officially translated into English by Viz or Dark Horse or whoever.

So there is a strong possibility that it has already been read by the consumer who doesn't wish to spend money on something he/she has already read.

For example, I have read up to Chapter 252 or so of my favorite comic right now, Berserk (yes I said comic). That's somewhere around volume 31ish. However, volume 10 is coming out this month (hopefully).

I have read everything but volume 10. At this point, I have read everything Berserk at least 4 times so I don't need to buy it to see what happens in Berserk. But I love it so much that I do buy it. Just an awesome comic.

Another example is Hellsing. I only read the manga when it comes out translated by Dark Horse. I haven't read scanlations online or seen the anime so when it comes out it is like a superhero comic that comes out every month.

I have to read the translated manga to find out what happens. The same you do with an American superhero comic book.

The DBZ manga finished at least a decade ago. It is now finally finishing up being translated into graphic novels by Viz. They are on vol. 23. It will be finished by #26.

Plus, the Buu saga is the weakest of DBZ's arcs. The high point of DBZ storytelling is somewhere around the Android Saga. So if you're going to take any sales numbers your gonna have to take it from there.

Also, DBZ was only taken out of Shonen Jump after the Cell Games got over so I didn't buy any DBZ graphic novels during that time. I read Shonen Jump. No need to buy the same comic twice, right?

[itsyaboy]

I don't mind there being a Supergirl, but I don't like Loeb's version and I never liked PAD's version. PAD may have created a better character but she just didn't seem to fit into the Superman "family" IMO.

The only thing wrong with Loeb's version is that she has her own book......I'd have broken her in slow as a supporting character in other titles (mainly Superman titles), then a year or so down the line, create her own title....that way there's some history and character development to pull from plus she wouldn't seem like such a rookie.

I'd also have a new artist and writer (Churchill seems to draw her as eyecandy and Loeb seems to write her as one of those precocious annoying teens that's on MTV or teen dramas).

I'd also have her less powerful than Superman (she is a teenage girl). Plus her being Superman's cousin should put a big bullseye on her back so she'll have plenty of villains to keep her busy.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

After all, Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon, while popular even today, are still basically the Transformers and She-Ra's of tomorrow.

Pretty much, yeah.

Superman's popularity is staggering and virtually unprecedented. There's very few characters that have ever managed to catch on with so many different people, of so many different ages, in so many different countries.

[Forsaken_One]

Coming into the conversation late, I have to say that total money made on various franchises or characters can be really suprising. For example, I recently discovered that sales of Winnie the Pooh videos and related merchandice (books, stuffed animals, video games, whatnot) make more money for Disney than all of the Disney-created characters combined. As a kid who wasn't really into Winnie the Pooh that's a shocking statistic for me, and completely unexpected.

Now granted that doesn't take into consideration all the Pixar movies, since those aren't Disney-created characters, even if Disney is making money off of the merchandise and video sales. But it still means Winnie the Pooh beats out Mickey Mouse and friends, all the disney movies from Snow White to the latest bear one (I kinda gave up on Disney movies around Aladdin, though I did see Lilo and Stich while working for Hollywood a few years back). And related merchandice, from Little Princess getups to halloween costumes or whatever else is out there. That is a lot of money coming from Winnie the Pooh stuff.

Just goes to show you (or did me anyway) that you should never trust what you like or see as popular in the world as what's actually popular. Sure anime is really big right now, but there's always the chance that sales of Ninja Turtles merchandise over the years trumps all the money anime's made in the last ten years. :)

[Citizen V]

I would personally do 2 things..

1.Make Power Girl...take on the SuperGirl persona.This would be something like the Silver Age,where Superman`s cousin takes up the mantle.This was already done,but reconed during the first Crisis or such.

2.Bring the fan favorite regular Supergirl back.I agree with some on other forums that when Supergirl was brought back in Superman/Batman it was a bit weak,and lacked some elements.I would perhaps explain her origin in a more detailed method.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I am also of the opinion that no Supergirl is a good Supergirl... at least in Superman's timeline. I liked DC's idea after COIE to make Superman the sole survivor of Krypton and NOT just the "Last Son of Krypton."

However, having Supergirl in, say, the Legion of Super-Heroes would be fine by me. There are all kinds of ways it could be done. I especially like the idea that Supergirl is, in fact, Superman's cousin but due to a fault in the warp-drive or whatever, she arrives on Earth some centuries after Kal-El.

I've always liked Power Girl far more than Supergirl, but I'm OK with PG having a non-Kryptonian origin (although I didn't think her Atlantean origin ever made much sense).

[stealthwise]

Coming into the conversation late, I have to say that total money made on various franchises or characters can be really suprising. For example, I recently discovered that sales of Winnie the Pooh videos and related merchandice (books, stuffed animals, video games, whatnot) make more money for Disney than all of the Disney-created characters combined. As a kid who wasn't really into Winnie the Pooh that's a shocking statistic for me, and completely unexpected.

Now granted that doesn't take into consideration all the Pixar movies, since those aren't Disney-created characters, even if Disney is making money off of the merchandise and video sales. But it still means Winnie the Pooh beats out Mickey Mouse and friends, all the disney movies from Snow White to the latest bear one (I kinda gave up on Disney movies around Aladdin, though I did see Lilo and Stich while working for Hollywood a few years back). And related merchandice, from Little Princess getups to halloween costumes or whatever else is out there. That is a lot of money coming from Winnie the Pooh stuff.

Just goes to show you (or did me anyway) that you should never trust what you like or see as popular in the world as what's actually popular. Sure anime is really big right now, but there's always the chance that sales of Ninja Turtles merchandise over the years trumps all the money anime's made in the last ten years. :)

My fiance and I were looking through baby stuff and I noticed the exact same thing today! I'm wondering if Winnie the Pooh is that much more marketable, or if Disney's marketing is just using the license much more aggressively than in the past. Maybe it's a combination of both.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ninja Turtles eclipsed just about everything else in the past twenty years.

[Ugoff]

I am also of the opinion that no Supergirl is a good Supergirl... at least in Superman's timeline. I liked DC's idea after COIE to make Superman the sole survivor of Krypton and NOT just the "Last Son of Krypton."

However, having Supergirl in, say, the Legion of Super-Heroes would be fine by me. There are all kinds of ways it could be done. I especially like the idea that Supergirl is, in fact, Superman's cousin but due to a fault in the warp-drive or whatever, she arrives on Earth some centuries after Kal-El.

I've always liked Power Girl far more than Supergirl, but I'm OK with PG having a non-Kryptonian origin (although I didn't think her Atlantean origin ever made much sense).

This always happens to me! I find an interesting thread and it's already 15 pages long! LOL! Oh well. It's just 8 pages, I'll catch up somehow. I think the current Supergirl is uninteresting and should be place in a different universe(which it seems DC is going to do). I wish they would have kept the Supergirl that showed up during the end of Peter Davids run. But oh well. I also feel DC should have thought outside the box and maybe had a Supergirl title that existed outside continuity.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I am also of the opinion that no Supergirl is a good Supergirl... at least in Superman's timeline. I liked DC's idea after COIE to make Superman the sole survivor of Krypton and NOT just the "Last Son of Krypton."

Agreed. there's some people that have told me that I should give her a chance. They even told me, in some way, that it is unwise to deny her existence, for the potential of cool stories.

Although I agree with the above statement, I have to say that I just don't like her. Not at all. I find her existence annoying and perhaps even harmful to the whole Superman mythos.

There's no point in bringing her back, other than having a female version of the most recognizable icon in comic-book history. There's this need of comic-book companies of having female versions of their characters: Supergirl, Batgirl and Batwoman, X-23, She-Hulk, She-Ra, Araña... And so on.

Now, I understand that there's certain segment of the comic-book reading people who might like this stuff, and thus their desire must be satisfied.

But it can be done without damaging another character's history. Superman being the only Kryptonian left in the Universe added depth to the character: him being alone. Even though he's surrounded by a wife, family and friends there's no other like him. And that's another thing (obviously not the only one) who makes him special. He's the only one left. There's no other Kryptonian in the universe.

Now, I also said that I managed to like the Pre-CoIE Supergirl stories (I read a few). But with time tastes change, and the way this character was brought back was nothing short of extremely annoying.

[PatrickG]

hey... I got thinking. Dan Jurgens is a big fan of Kara Zor-El. What do you think about giving him an arc on this book.

[stealthwise]

hey... I got thinking. Dan Jurgens is a big fan of Kara Zor-El. What do you think about giving him an arc on this book.

Drawing, yes. Writing, no.

[geordiesteve]

I don't have a problem with the current origin of Supergirl, or the previous one to be honest, as someone said before, its the execution of what is done with that character that matters. I like Loeb as a writer, I really think he is excellent, but this beat 'em up book with amazing art is a step backwards. A complex origin just means there is a lot more to unravel over time, and that is an intriguing idea to me. It means there are layers to the character and each time we think we know them, a new layer is peeled away and something new revealed, changing our perspective again. Wolverine being the best example.

A female version of popular characters does seem to be a staple of the comic world, and while I think some of them are frivolous, some have the potential to be interesting. Supergirl has that potential, both as an outsider, as an alien, as someone who has come into the superhero community and ranks in the top say, 20-30 on the power scale, so people expect an awful lot from her. Then there is the idea of living in the shadow of her cousin, the greatest superhero icon in the (DC) world. That's a lot of pressure for someone who was asleep in a space ship only a few months ago. Making her a carbon copy of previous Supergirls, going over ground already explored, making her a teen in a short skirt, all seems pointless to me. Why not just use an existing teen character in the DC universe, and put her in a small revealing costume if you want some eye candy for teenage boys? Better yet, use Power Girl more, her costume is fantastic for that.

Does anyone know if the creative team is changing anytime soon on this title? I might come back for another look at that point.

[Mon-el]

Does anyone know if the creative team is changing anytime soon on this title? I might come back for another look at that point.

Greg Rucka takes over the book for Issue #7 in April.

[geordiesteve]

Greg Rucka takes over the book for Issue #7 in April.

Cheers, I might have a look at it then.