San Diego Comic Conned

[Drusilla lives!]

... as I was signing on Sunday, a woman came by with her daughter and expressed considerable relief that the main media booths were yet ahead of her. Not because she had anything against comics per se, but because, in their first visit to the Con, they'd come in at the Marriott end, where many of the back issue vendors are clustered. Given what she'd heard for years about how great Comic-Con is, she was shocked that it looked like, as she put it, "a flea market." ...

Am I to gather from this that you were in the "flea market" section... I hope you weren't there throughout the entire con (game). Let me guess, and I'll go out on a limb with this one... she didn't ask you to sign anything for her or her daughter. :)

I really don't see what the fascination is with these cons... basically they're for industry types who have something to sell. I don't really see where the "fans" fit in anymore. Which is odd, because weren't these events started by fans way back in the day?

[Steven Grant]

Am I to gather from this that you were in the "flea market" section... I hope you weren't there throughout the entire con (game). Let me guess, and I'll go out on a limb with this one... she didn't ask you to sign anything for her or her daughter. :)

I really don't see what the fascination is with these cons... basically they're for industry types who have something to sell. I don't really see where the "fans" fit in anymore. Which is odd, because weren't these events started by fans way back in the day?

I think the appeal is you never know when JOHNNY DEPP!! might unexpectedly show up. (As he did.)

No, I was south of the flea market by some rows, and you missed that she was relieved to see our booth. (It was the 12 Gauge Comics booth at an aisle break in row 20.) No, she didn't ask me to sign anything but she wasn't really looking for comics stuff, as most Comic-Con dilettantes aren't, so I don't hold that against her. Everyone's got to start somewhere. Anyway, I think we were just the first convenient place to express herself, and commiserate. That's okay. I'm easy.

By the way, no, I was only at the 12 Gauge booth that one hour...

- Grant

[Dennis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gP-80V1mo4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5zyPFr-CQY&feature=related

[Drusilla lives!]

I think the appeal is you never know when JOHNNY DEPP!! might unexpectedly show up. (As he did.) ...

Did you at least get his autograph? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gP-80V1mo4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5zyPFr-CQY&feature=related

That's a comic con??? That last one sounded like a Beatles reunion concert.

Is the SDCC really about comics? As I've said elsewhere, if it is I don't see it as anything but a reminder of how big, yet impersonal the comics industry has gotten. But it's not about comics anymore... it's just place for the big entertainment companies to go and shill their latest crap. Movies, video games, clothing lines... anything but comic books.

[comicsmetal]

Did you at least get his autograph? :)



That's a comic con??? That last one sounded like a Beatles reunion concert.

Is the SDCC really about comics? As I've said elsewhere, if it is I don't see it as anything but a reminder of how big, yet impersonal the comics industry has gotten. But it's not about comics anymore... it's just place for the big entertainment companies to go and shill their latest crap. Movies, video games, clothing lines... anything but comic books.

Yawn,it is becoming a whole thing event .Comics are still part of it but it is about other things.

Please stop your whining.

[Steven Grant]

Did you at least get his autograph? :)

Didn't even know he'd been there until days later. I like Depp's work, but his whereabouts aren't exactly my field of interest.

Is the SDCC really about comics? As I've said elsewhere, if it is I don't see it as anything but a reminder of how big, yet impersonal the comics industry has gotten. But it's not about comics anymore... it's just place for the big entertainment companies to go and shill their latest crap. Movies, video games, clothing lines... anything but comic books.

Comics are still what drives the thing. Hollywood is there because they want the comics world - and audience - to take notice of them. And they take notice of what's being done in comics. So comics are still the focus, even if that's not how it's portrayed in the mass media.

- Grant

[comicsmetal]

Didn't even know he'd been there until days later. I like Depp's work, but his whereabouts aren't exactly my field of interest.



Comics are still what drives the thing. Hollywood is there because they want the comics world - and audience - to take notice of them. And they take notice of what's being done in comics. So comics are still the focus, even if that's not how it's portrayed in the mass media.

- Grant

Yeah what he said.

[bartl]

Comics are still what drives the thing. Hollywood is there because they want the comics world - and audience - to take notice of them. And they take notice of what's being done in comics. So comics are still the focus, even if that's not how it's portrayed in the mass media.
I suspect that it's cheaper to produce a comic book than a treatment, in any case.

[Drusilla lives!]

... Comics are still what drives the thing. Hollywood is there because they want the comics world - and audience - to take notice of them. And they take notice of what's being done in comics. So comics are still the focus, even if that's not how it's portrayed in the mass media.

Wha??? Please, you're beholden to Hollywood, not the other way around.

And what's up with this comment...

... the differential of slick and sloppy kept leaping out. Like the difference between the "flea market" and the superbooths, the differences in costumes worn were dramatic. Ignoring the professionals – it's easy enough to tell who they are – cosplayers ranged from those who'd put together near-professional costumes carefully molded or sewn to those stringing together shabby Magic Markered cardboard with staples and rubber bands. On the one hand, you have to sympathetically view the latter, who wanted to dress in costume and be part of the show so much they proudly wore whatever they could put together; on the other, they looked ridiculous.

... is this pity? :)

Or an admission that the place is packed with paid shills (as most Hollywood "media" events are these days)?

[comicsmetal]

Wha??? Please, you're beholden to Hollywood, not the other way around.

And what's up with this comment...



... is this pity? :)

Or an admission that the place is packed with paid shills (as most Hollywood "media" events are these days)?

:eek: Honestly bud ,this is a business like any other business they are trying to get people to pay to get in .so they use Hollywood and other stuff.It still a comic book convention.

Again please stop your whining.

[Three]

Whining or not, I went to my first Comic Con this year and wish I could get all my money back. The experience was awful and to top it off I had my camera stolen. The VAST majority of people I met were California natives that were not interested in comics but meeting celebrities and getting stuff to sell on eBay.

[comicsmetal]

Whining or not, I went to my first Comic Con this year and wish I could get all my money back. The experience was awful and to top it off I had my camera stolen. The VAST majority of people I met were California natives that were not interested in comics but meeting celebrities and getting stuff to sell on eBay.

That what happens in some of these cons ,it is a big con so yeah you might get some who are disinterested in the real subject.Sorry if you had a bad experience if you want try to go to a small con and then try San Diego.

P.S just advice do NOT bring your Camera with any big events like these you might get it stolen.

[Drusilla lives!]

:eek: Honestly bud ,this is a business like any other business they are trying to get people to pay to get in .so they use Hollywood and other stuff.It still a comic book convention.

Again please stop your whining.

Hey, I'm all for free enterprise... and I don't want to begrudge anyone a living. But I don't think I need to be conned anymore then I have been. Whining? No, I'm just trying to make sense of Grant's observations that's all... on the one hand he's stating here that the "con" is about comics, while in my opinion he implies something else in his column.

But then perhaps we have differing views as to what comics are about... mine being the viewpoint of a fan and Grant's, the view of an insider. That's why what makes sense to him doesn't to me. I see the con as a gathering place for professionals to rub elbows and network (like all other trade shows or conventions)... with other comic professionals and most importantly entertainment industry execs. Comic books and the fans are ancillary, the con is not about comics, how could it be, because not even comics are about comics... comics are used to sell or push other products. They're a means to an end, not an end in themselves.

Which was not the case when the comics industry began, I am of the opinion (despite what Grant might say to the contrary) that the historical record of comic books does appear to support the thesis that the comics of the Golden and Atomic Ages were indeed created for their own end... merchandising and syndicated TV shows came later as an afterthought, but being tremendously lucrative, quickly set aside all other motivations. Now it's all about the merchandising and syndication rights, and movie tie-ins, and video games, and so on, and so on... and so on. Back then they made a product, comics, to sell. Sure, a movie studio might approach a comic company for a tie-in... but that's the key, they approached a comic company. A company in a different industry, now all forms of media are one and the same... there is no comics industry, comics are the handmaiden to Hollywood, the video game industry or any other cog in the entertainment industrial complex.

[comicsmetal]

Hey, I'm all for free enterprise... and I don't want to begrudge anyone a living. But I don't think I need to be conned anymore then I have been. Whining? No, I'm just trying to make sense of Grant's observations that's all... on the one hand he's stating here that the "con" is about comics, while in my opinion he implies something else in his column.

But then perhaps we have differing views as to what comics are about... mine being the viewpoint of a fan and Grant's, the view of an insider. That's why what makes sense to him doesn't to me. I see the con as a gathering place for professionals to rub elbows and network (like all other trade shows or conventions)... with other comic professionals and most importantly entertainment industry execs. Comic books and the fans are ancillary, the con is not about comics, how could it be, because not even comics are about comics... comics are used to sell or push other products. They're a means to an end, not an end in themselves.

Which was not the case when the comics industry began, I am of the opinion (despite what Grant might say to the contrary) that the historical record of comic books does appear to support the thesis that the comics of the Golden and Atomic Ages were indeed created for their own end... merchandising and syndicated TV shows came later as an afterthought, but being tremendously lucrative, quickly set aside all other motivations. Now it's all about the merchandising and syndication rights, and movie tie-ins, and video games, and so on, and so on... and so on. Back then they made a product, comics, to sell. Sure, a movie studio might approach a comic company for a tie-in... but that's the key, they approached a comic company. A company in a different industry, now all forms of media are one and the same... there is no comics industry, comics are the handmaiden to Hollywood, the video game industry or any other cog in the entertainment industrial complex.

:rolleyes: What I read was a bunch of nothing .I bet you when you go to E3 you see the exact same thing.Never mind I have you on my ignore list for sometime becuase of your stupid doom and gloom attitude just that when I do not sign on here I see your posts.

[Charles RB]

Just so we're clear - you're whining about how another poster is whining. It's very silly.

[comicsmetal]

Just so we're clear - you're whining about how another poster is whining. It's very silly.

:mad: How am I whining ,I am just telling to stop this whole doom and gloom attitude and might just except the con is growing to be about other things then just comics.

It is still comic con but as grown to be more then just that.

[comicsmetal]

never mind, saw it.

[Three]

P.S just advice do NOT bring your Camera with any big events like these you might get it stolen.

So you are saying I shouldn't bring my camera with me on vaction to a place where thousands of other people have cameras? How about people just shouldn't steal my camera?! Anyway, since you love Comic Con so much you can have my spot next year.

[comicsmetal]

So you are saying I shouldn't bring my camera with me on vaction to a place where thousands of other people have cameras? How about people just shouldn't steal my camera?! Anyway, since you love Comic Con so much you can have my spot next year.

Yes,alot of people who have their camera's get stolen as well.If I was you I would have bought a depoable camera.

[Drusilla lives!]

Just so we're clear - you're whining about how another poster is whining. It's very silly.

We're all whiners here, so I don't really mind him whining... he's whining about me whining about Grant's whining.

[Drusilla lives!]

:rolleyes: What I read was a bunch of nothing .I bet you when you go to E3 you see the exact same thing.

What's E3???

... Never mind I have you on my ignore list for sometime becuase of your stupid doom and gloom attitude just that when I do not sign on here I see your posts.

I'm on your ignore list? Gee, I'm sorry I offend you that much... is your name Joe Quesada by any chance?

Well you know what, since I think I've grown tired of Grant and his whiner ramblings anyway... I don't think I'll be reading his column anymore BTW (I guess I can do this because, well... I can). I promise not to bother you or him again by showing up in his forum.

And I reiterate what I said before, the "con" game has changed. It's not about comics. The reason it's not is because comics are not about comics. And furthermore, as comics become more and more marginalized to other forms of dumb (or should I say dumber) entertainment, so to will the con. That's if it hasn't happened already, perhaps the people who are going to cons now aren't there for comics anyway but these other forms of entertainment. But that's OK, for as wealth shifts east, so will entertainment (and they will want their own entertainment... which BTW they already have).

[comicsmetal]

What's E3???
Convention for the video game industry.I thought you knew that.


I'm on your ignore list? Gee, I'm sorry I offend you that much... is your name Joe Quesada by any chance?

Well you know what, since I think I've grown tired of Grant and his whiner ramblings anyway... I don't think I'll be reading his column anymore BTW (I guess I can do this because, well... I can). I promise not to bother you or him again by showing up in his forum.

And I reiterate what I said before, the "con" game has changed. It's not about comics. The reason it's not is because comics are not about comics. And furthermore, as comics become more and more marginalized to other forms of dumb (or should I say dumber) entertainment, so to will the con. That's if it hasn't happened already, perhaps the people who are going to cons now aren't there for comics anyway but these other forms of entertainment. But that's OK, for as wealth shifts east, so will entertainment (and they will want their own entertainment... which BTW they already have).

:confused:

[bartl]

Yes,alot of people who have their camera's get stolen as well.If I was you I would have bought a depoable camera.As a sometime reporter, who is recording, interviewing, photographing and collecting literature and business cards (not taking notes on a laptop, yet), I have to keep everything under control. My cameras are always securely strapped on (I use anywhere from one to four cameras, depending); they are NEVER put down (lens caps, on the other hand....)

[comicsmetal]

As a sometime reporter, who is recording, interviewing, photographing and collecting literature and business cards (not taking notes on a laptop, yet), I have to keep everything under control. My cameras are always securely strapped on (I use anywhere from one to four cameras, depending); they are NEVER put down (lens caps, on the other hand....)

yeah ,also being responsible for your thing is also important but that camera is for your job,it is a lot more important then someone taking picture for convenience.

[Dennis]

Ugly people wearing the best costumes look ridiculous. Beautiful people wearing the worst costumes are still sexy.

[Charles RB]

My cameras are always securely strapped on (I use anywhere from one to four cameras, depending); they are NEVER put down (lens caps, on the other hand....)

Yeah, putting your camera down (and not away where people won't see it) is dumb ANYWHERE with large groups of people you don't know.

Though at conventions, you run less of a risk of people you ask to take a photo running off with it (partly cos you CAN'T run in that crowd).

[bartl]

Though at conventions, you run less of a risk of people you ask to take a photo running off with it (partly cos you CAN'T run in that crowd).
One phenomenon I have seen in the last few years is, instead of people lending others their cameras to take pictures of them, the third party uses their own cellphone and sends the pic to the people being photographed.

I used to mail people photos I took with my own cameras; later, I emailed them scanned copies from film, or originals from digital.

[Paul McEnery]

Just so we're clear - you're whining about how another poster is whining. It's very silly.

Dear Charles,

I wish to complain in the strongest possible terms about the lack of whining in the manner in which you tell someone off for whining about someone else whining. I find this matter most unsatisfactory and demand compensation.

Yours,

R.E. Cursive, Esq.

[Sean Whitmore]

Dear Charles,

I wish to complain in the strongest possible terms about the lack of whining in the manner in which you tell someone off for whining about someone else whining. I find this matter most unsatisfactory and demand compensation.

Yours,

R.E. Cursive, Esq.

Christ, Paul, stop whining.


SEAN

[badMike]

Is the SDCC really about comics? As I've said elsewhere, if it is I don't see it as anything but a reminder of how big, yet impersonal the comics industry has gotten. But it's not about comics anymore... it's just place for the big entertainment companies to go and shill their latest crap.Went to Comic-Con for the first time this year, but I only went on Saturday. I was a bit "part of the problem" as I was there mostly for movie stuff, except for the oddball stuff for my site, not the big Hollywood stuff.

I bought exactly one graphic novel and kind of forced myself to stay away from most publisher tables for economic reasons. I was afraid I'd spend way more money than I should, so I was being frugal. So, I feel bad when I read about Fantagraphics complaining nobody bought their stuff. I really wanted to, but just couldn't.

But, I thought the con was a terrific celebration of comics. There were comics everywhere you turned and plenty of opportunities to chat with creators, pick up new stuff or great old collections. Yeah, mostly you hear about the Hollywood glitz, but there's so much more going on at the con. It was interesting to finally see it all after reading about it so much the past few years it's grown.

[NaveenM]

Went to Comic-Con for the first time this year, but I only went on Saturday. I was a bit "part of the problem" as I was there mostly for movie stuff, except for the oddball stuff for my site, not the big Hollywood stuff.

I bought exactly one graphic novel and kind of forced myself to stay away from most publisher tables for economic reasons. I was afraid I'd spend way more money than I should, so I was being frugal. So, I feel bad when I read about Fantagraphics complaining nobody bought their stuff. I really wanted to, but just couldn't.

But, I thought the con was a terrific celebration of comics. There were comics everywhere you turned and plenty of opportunities to chat with creators, pick up new stuff or great old collections. Yeah, mostly you hear about the Hollywood glitz, but there's so much more going on at the con. It was interesting to finally see it all after reading about it so much the past few years it's grown.

Glad you enjoyed it! The more that non-comic lovers come to the con, the better.

I really don't understand the "too many non-comics fans" argument.

The number of comics readers shrinks every years, and is getting, on average, older. Any savvy business person would view these events as opportunities to expand their market, not complain.

[badMike]

Glad you enjoyed it! The more that non-comic lovers come to the con, the better.Actually I'm a huge comic book fan and it was a little painful to force myself to not focus on that side of the con. I just had other agendas the one day I went.

[Steven Grant]

Actually I'm a huge comic book fan and it was a little painful to force myself to not focus on that side of the con. I just had other agendas the one day I went.

But you saw me, and that's a memory you can carry forever.

- Grant

[bartl]

Actually I'm a huge comic book fan.
Ever met Buzz Dixon? Now, HE'S a huge comic fan...

[Steven Grant]

Ever met Buzz Dixon? Now, HE'S a huge comic fan...

Nyet. Absolutely untrue. Buzz is a huge comics pro... and he's not all that big neither. (He just tall, that's just about all.) (Sorry... free associating... Anyway, I've seen bigger...)

- Grant

P.S. Bad Mike's also not all that big...

[bartl]

Nyet. Absolutely untrue. Buzz is a huge comics pro... and he's not all that big neither. (He just tall, that's just about all.) (Sorry... free associating... Anyway, I've seen bigger...).
How many other ex-football players are there in comics?

[badMike]

Ever met Buzz Dixon? Now, HE'S a huge comic fan...No. But if I did I'd ask him why he stopped coming around these parts.

[badMike]

P.S. Bad Mike's also not all that big...I admit it. I'm a scrawny four-eyed dork. And it was nice to finally get to say hi in person, tho' weird to have to introduce myself as "Bad Mike." Little tired of the alias.

And just so's I don't have to start a new thread: I don't know if you know this, but Robert Greenberger is working on a hardcover book called The Art of Howard Chaykin, which should be out around Christmas.

http://www.bobgreenberger.com/index.php/2009/06/21/a-new-project-announced/

[Steven Grant]

I admit it. I'm a scrawny four-eyed dork. And it was nice to finally get to say hi in person, tho' weird to have to introduce myself as "Bad Mike." Little tired of the alias.

Yeah, I can see where that might outlive its usefulness.

Ever seen the film THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JUDGE ROY BEAN? Stacy Keach has a very short but hilarious cameo as an outlaw who comes to town to gun Bean down and stands in front of the Judge's office, shouting, "Hey! Beano! C'mon out! It's me, Bob! You know - BAAAAAAAAAAD Bob!"

And just so's I don't have to start a new thread: I don't know if you know this, but Robert Greenberger is working on a hardcover book called The Art of Howard Chaykin, which should be out around Christmas.

Well, speaking of Bobs, bless my old pal Bob. More power to him and I look forward to seeing it. Thanks for the tip.

- Grant

[badMike]

Well, speaking of Bobs, bless my old pal Bob. More power to him and I look forward to seeing it. Thanks for the tip.I worked with Bob a couple years ago during his brief foray out of comics. We both worked for a TV listings site called Gist.com that eventually went under.

And no, I've never seen Judge Roy Bean. I'll have to check it out.

[Charles RB]

No. But if I did I'd ask him why he stopped coming around these parts.

He stopped after ostating he'd voted for Proposition 8 and being somewhat condescending about it, so I presume he just didn't feel welcome after that.

[bartl]

No. But if I did I'd ask him why he stopped coming around these parts.
He was, and remains, active with the column that brought me to these parts in the first place (Grant's presence being a pleasant surprise); Scott Shaw's Oddball Comics, which has since spun off to its own site (http://www.oddballcomics.com) (note to Grant: no, I did not set this up for the purpose of plugging Scott's site, but, as long as somebody ASKED...)

And, to verify, Buzz is tall and solidly built, and a bit overweight, but by no means fat. I, on the other hand, used to use my membership type for a nickname. Since I was 6 foot even and 240 pounds at the time I joined, when I hit the requisite number of posts, and the membership types were in the form "adjective member", I used "Extra Large Member", referring to my clothing size. Scott, however, pointed out to me that it might be taken the wrong way. I tried for "Immoderator", but the software wouldn't accept anything with the string "moderator" in it. I therefore, for various reasons, chose "Heretic" as my descriptive term. It works for me.

[badMike]

He stopped after ostating he'd voted for Proposition 8 and being somewhat condescending about it, so I presume he just didn't feel welcome after that.Maybe he's been on other CBR forums, but I don't look at those. He hasn't been on the PD board since waaay before Prop 8.

[Charles RB]

Maybe he's been on other CBR forums, but I don't look at those. He hasn't been on the PD board since waaay before Prop 8.

*shrugs* Dunno then.

[Steven Grant]

And no, I've never seen Judge Roy Bean. I'll have to check it out.

I wouldn't say it's an especially good (or bad) film, but that bit always stuck with me.

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

He was, and remains, active with the column that brought me to these parts in the first place (Grant's presence being a pleasant surprise); Scott Shaw's Oddball Comics, which has since spun off to its own site (http://www.oddballcomics.com) (note to Grant: no, I did not set this up for the purpose of plugging Scott's site, but, as long as somebody ASKED...)

Uh... I don't care... either way...

Buzz still pops around now and then, but he's got a life too, know what I mean?

- Grant

[Steven Grant]

Maybe he's been on other CBR forums, but I don't look at those. He hasn't been on the PD board since waaay before Prop 8.

Untrue. He commented on some column thread a couple months ago. I don't think he's overtly avoiding the board or anything like that, and he knows he's always welcome here.

- Grant

[Drusilla lives!]

I apologize Grant, I was making you into my personal punching bag here in this thread and you didn't (and still don't) deserve it. :frown:

And I'm sorry to (recently) hear you've given up your column... best of luck in your future endeavors.

Dru.

[Steven Grant]

I apologize Grant, I was making you into my personal punching bag here in this thread and you didn't (and still don't) deserve it. :frown:

And I'm sorry to (recently) hear you've given up your column... best of luck in your future endeavors.

Dru.

Thanks for the good wishes, but, otherwise, I don't remember what you're talking about. Whatever it was, I certainly didn't feel punched. (Of course, I may have been too punchy to notice, but...)

- Grant