Are you still following the Space Saga?

[Mitteloss]

And in the title, I'm refering to the ongoing storyline that's been going on for the past three years centred around Vulcan and the X-Jammers (Havok, Polaris, Rachel Grey) in space.

The reason why I'm asking, is because many of us are beginning to wonder if X-Fans are still interested/following this storyline, and because it's been dragged out for so long whether it's time to just end it and have the three X-Men return to Earth.

So, are you still following? And if not, when did you stop (if you ever followed in the first place)?

Edited: *ahem* By follow I mean still read the comics.

[theXfactor]

No. I stopped after the end of the arc written by Ed Brubaker.

[Filthy Mutie]

I follow it through online spoilers. One day I'll actually read through it.

[The Black Guardian]

Heck yeah! It's the only reason I've been reading War of Kings.

I've been done with Vulcan for a while. I just want to see him die. I wouldn't mind at all, and would continue to follow, if Havok, Polaris, and Rachel stayed in space.

[.LuckyStar.]

Yes. Just because of Havok and Polaris. Don't really care about cosmic/Shi'ar/Inhumans stories.

[Faded]

No, not a fan of space stories or the characters involved.

[Mitteloss]

I follow it through online spoilers. One day I'll actually read through it.

By follow I mean read.

And sorry for the grammatical error in the last option.

[Filthy Mutie]

By follow I mean read.

And sorry for the grammatical error in the last option.

I read the occasional online summary/spoiler, yes.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Stopped after the first issue of RAFOTSE

[Mitteloss]

I read the occasional online summary/spoiler, yes.

Read the comics... :rolleyes: :tongue: So, you don't really.

[worstblogever]

The awesome responsibility that is Mutant Tracker (yeah, whatever) means that I have to kind of keep an eye on it.

But I believe there was some discussion about bringing Havok home at SDCC, so I'm not too worried about how long it'll be.

[Filthy Mutie]

Read the comics... :rolleyes: :tongue: So, you don't really.

No. I hate comic books.

[quillero]

Let's say I'm following it because of WoK. Besides Lorna, Raza and Ch'od I don't care that much about those characters.

I'll keep as long as it's attached to DnA's space opera.

[Mitteloss]

I know it's too early to tell, but it's interesting the no one yet has said they stopped during Emperor Vulcan or Kingbreaker. Could be because the writing and storytelling got much better after RAFOTSE thanks to Chris Yost. And DnA are superb writers.

Nowdays, I read more cosmic books then X-Books. I kind of pity those who are still reading the X-books (bar X-Factor), the books have been so unsatisfying and mediocre since 2008.

[Askani's Flame]

Yes, still reading it. It got better after RAFTOSE, but I want my Trinity home on Earth.

[Justin K.]

I really enjoy Polaris as a character, and seeing where she went after she went under Apocalypse's control had me curious and hoping for big things with her, plus her interactions with Havok interested me. So far though, I like Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire, though it was when I started collecting Uncanny on a regular basis. Polaris, I felt was under utilized in RAFOTSE, basically she was used to open doors, though I loved that she finally did something cool in the last part of the story, though it left me thinking,"it's about time"! The stuff she did in Emperor Vulcan was more impressive and her role was larger, heck, she took on the Imperial Guard, minus Gladiator, though I wonder how they would have defeated her. Kingbreaker disappointed me a bit. Basically, it was the escape of the Starjammers, Lorna, I'm assuming she was drugged up. War of Kings, so far so good. I like her family interaction with Crystal, but we still see the Starjammers. I hope she does something cool in the final part and survives.

Rachel, at the time, I didn't know much about her, but I felt at first she seemed like a Jean replacement, though Kingbreaker and Emperor Vulcan have proven that wrong. Space has done many wonderful things for Rachel, in spite of her little mishap with Lilandra and it helped her grow out of what she was on Earth, that being something that wasn't really all that impressive, minus her earlier appearances (First appearance to her time in Excalibur). Space has done wonders with Rachel for me. I hope that if she returns to Earth, she stays this awesome or that she remains in space, whatever's better for her, just no more angst Rachel please.

Havok in space is hit and miss with me. If he were to remain on Earth, I hope he remain away from Cyclops, with his own team perhaps, otherwise we would just get the "living in my older brother's shadow" crap again. It may make him human, but it's really cliched and it's good to see Alex lead in space, he works differently from Scott and this whole experience in general has made him stronger. RAFOTSE, I felt like he and Lorna were more in the background, a lot of the story being focused on Xavier, but as mentioned with Lorna, the final part really opened things up for Alex, in spite of his father's death. Emperor Vulcan was well written and he really was a great leader, no doubt about it, haven't seen leading like this since his days in X-factor and it's good to see that again. Kingbreaker, I felt he was the strong point in the story, but it still felt like a jail-break kind of story that could have been summarized in a prologue issue or even tied into the War of Kings War of Kings, we still see that leadership and if he does return to Earth,give this guy an x-team to lead.

Raza and Cho'd, I feel for. They're the ones with the least lines and the smaller roles, and Raza, well he's disappeared, I hope what has happened to him is shown and that he survives. It's bad enough we got Wallpaper Hepzibah on Earth and another dead Starjammer, don't want the whole original team to go away. The stories haven't really boosted or lowered anything for the original Starjammers. Kill a member, get his son to lead, etc. Overall, Raza and Cho'd feel like they're just there, that when we got Polaris, Havok, and Rachel up front and fighting, we see the two (now one) in the background cracking the occasional one-liner. Cho'd and Raza just can't catch a break.

Overall, Space has been hit and miss, but I just want it to end, it has dragged on for so long, either end it or just continue an ongoing series for the characters, though I mainly speak about the Starjammers. The Inhumans are guaranteed a role somewhere, but my hopes are that the Starjammers don't end in limbo, wallpaper, or dead. Space has done good things for them and it would be a shame to see all that build-up go to waste.

[Mia]

I only touch it because I am in love with Black Bolt. As soon as WOK is over, I stop reading.

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/e/eb/BlackBolt_by_Philip_Tan.jpg

(YUMMY!)

[Prodigy55]

I loved RAFOTSE and I love all the stuff after it.

[Mitteloss]

I really enjoy Polaris as a character, and seeing where she went after she went under Apocalypse's control had me curious and hoping for big things with her, plus her interactions with Havok interested me. So far though, I like Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire, though it was when I started collecting Uncanny on a regular basis. Polaris, I felt was under utilized in RAFOTSE, basically she was used to open doors, though I loved that she finally did something cool in the last part of the story, though it left me thinking,"it's about time"! The stuff she did in Emperor Vulcan was more impressive and her role was larger, heck, she took on the Imperial Guard, minus Gladiator, though I wonder how they would have defeated her. Kingbreaker disappointed me a bit. Basically, it was the escape of the Starjammers, Lorna, I'm assuming she was drugged up. War of Kings, so far so good. I like her family interaction with Crystal, but we still see the Starjammers. I hope she does something cool in the final part and survives.

Rachel, at the time, I didn't know much about her, but I felt at first she seemed like a Jean replacement, though Kingbreaker and Emperor Vulcan have proven that wrong. Space has done many wonderful things for Rachel, in spite of her little mishap with Lilandra and it helped her grow out of what she was on Earth, that being something that wasn't really all that impressive, minus her earlier appearances (First appearance to her time in Excalibur). Space has done wonders with Rachel for me. I hope that if she returns to Earth, she stays this awesome or that she remains in space, whatever's better for her, just no more angst Rachel please.

Havok in space is hit and miss with me. If he were to remain on Earth, I hope he remain away from Cyclops, with his own team perhaps, otherwise we would just get the "living in my older brother's shadow" crap again. It may make him human, but it's really cliched and it's good to see Alex lead in space, he works differently from Scott and this whole experience in general has made him stronger. RAFOTSE, I felt like he and Lorna were more in the background, a lot of the story being focused on Xavier, but as mentioned with Lorna, the final part really opened things up for Alex, in spite of his father's death. Emperor Vulcan was well written and he really was a great leader, no doubt about it, haven't seen leading like this since his days in X-factor and it's good to see that again. Kingbreaker, I felt he was the strong point in the story, but it still felt like a jail-break kind of story that could have been summarized in a prologue issue or even tied into the War of Kings War of Kings, we still see that leadership and if he does return to Earth,give this guy an x-team to lead.

Raza and Cho'd, I feel for. They're the ones with the least lines and the smaller roles, and Raza, well he's disappeared, I hope what has happened to him is shown and that he survives. It's bad enough we got Wallpaper Hepzibah on Earth and another dead Starjammer, don't want the whole original team to go away. The stories haven't really boosted or lowered anything for the original Starjammers. Kill a member, get his son to lead, etc. Overall, Raza and Cho'd feel like they're just there, that when we got Polaris, Havok, and Rachel up front and fighting, we see the two (now one) in the background cracking the occasional one-liner. Cho'd and Raza just can't catch a break.

Overall, Space has been hit and miss, but I just want it to end, it has dragged on for so long, either end it or just continue an ongoing series for the characters, though I mainly speak about the Starjammers. The Inhumans are guaranteed a role somewhere, but my hopes are that the Starjammers don't end in limbo, wallpaper, or dead. Space has done good things for them and it would be a shame to see all that build-up go to waste.

Great post Justin and I totally agree.

You summed up the feelings of many very well (please come back to the Polaris thread and grace us with your avatars too).

And Mia, LOL, I agree, BB does look kinda hot there, but a bit too much muscle.

[Nevets F]

YES I am following the cosmic stories...they are the best thing coming out by Marvel right now.

[The Lucky One]

Stopped after Rise and Fall. No offense to Ed Brubaker, he's a good writer, but after 12 issues and $36 I realized I still didn't care at all about Vulcan or what he did to the Shi'ar. That was enough for me.

-D

[CJ Lentze]

I'm still on the boat... or rather, on the starship, I guess.

I did in fact start reading the War Of Kings crossover because of Rachel, even though reading comics for one particular character was something I previously didn't do. I don't mind that she's a supporting character instead of a major player in this, though I'll admit it's cool when she gets to do something in an issue...

Reading War Of Kings also got me interested in collecting the Annihilation stories, of which I previously hadn't read a lot of issues, as trade paperbacks, and I was very pleased with them... It was new to me because I know so little about the cosmic side of Marvel.

Yes, I'll be reading for now, but I'm not sure for how long. I'll probably keep following Ray wherever she goes, though I'm not even always certain about that...

[AcesX1X]

don't really care about these characters, TBH. vulcan is OK, but not worth following across several mini-series.

don't care for polaris, i feel she's outlived her usefulness now that she's a cyborg or something. havok is somewhat interesting, but not worthy enough to follow on a regular basis.

rise and fall was cool, but things should have ended there. maybe the space x-men could make guest-appearances here and there afterwards, but the mini-series were a little pointless, IMO.

[marvell2100]

Yes I'm reading and yes I'll keep reading.

[Swashbuckler]

I am reading it, basically because I've started following all the cosmic books. I like them a lot. The Starjammers are ok, but the only one I enjoy is Polaris, and I only like her when she's batshit crazy. Normal Lorna is dull and Havok/Lorna is dull. I have no desire to see her return to earth and I don't want her to team up with Magneto and the Maximoffs. She's a dirty half breed to the Magnus clan.

Also, I HATE Rachel Grey with an unbriddled passion. I hope she dies at the end of this arc. She needs to be deleted from the timestream. She is a total piece of crap and I hate everything about her, and most of her fans honestly.

I love Chod and Raza as well, but they are pretty much ignored.

[jmc247]

But I believe there was some discussion about bringing Havok home at SDCC, so I'm not too worried about how long it'll be.

Which pannel did you hear that happened in?

[digitalways]

I'm reading WoK and that's really about it, a friend has been keeping up with that whole drama so it's on my periphery. That and I love the three that are stuck out there and they've been gone for so long, I am kind of itching to see how they react to all of the crazy bullshit that's happened while they've been off world. I mean, they have been M.I.A. for some pretty heavy business.

I also think, at some point, things that happened in the WoK books will tie back into the X-verse... meaning, *spoiler-ish*Rachel losing the Phoenix Force. I haven't read all of the books tied to WoK, and this question might be more suited for a thread someplace else on here, but I have yet to see any follow through on what actually happened with the Force and where it went...

Plus hello, with what happened in the WoK mini itself issue before last, I'm interested to see Xavier's reaction... if there is one at all.

[NewMutant]

In TPB.

Rise and Fall was ok but could have been 10 issues instead of 12. I'm not huge on the space stories but its the first time since 90s X-Factor that Havok and Polaris seem to have a purpose. I think they should leave the three of them with the Starjammers. Plus it really felt like it was connected to lots of storylines. End of Greys, Blood of the Apocalypse, Deadly Genesis, and now tying into War of Kings. Vulcan is kind of a lame one note though.

I probably wouldn't have gotten WOK had they not been it. They plus the Inhumans gave me the push I needed to read it.

[ClanAskani]

I've given up on War of Kings. I really don't like the way the characters are being written and it doesn't interest me in the least bit.

I truly hope this is the last of space for the X-Men for a very, very long time. The X-Men don't belong in space. They lose everything that makes them unique in space and become just another team of superhumans there.

I'm really hoping Rachel can get back to Earth in time for the next Messiah crossover event, and finally after 8 years address her past with the Askani.

Then hopefully she can get way from being whiny Rachel Grey and back to the character she was in Weinberg's Cable or Davis' Excalibur.

[CmX]

Yes. Just because of Havok and Polaris. Don't really care about cosmic/Shi'ar/Inhumans stories.

lol I love you and your honesty.

[CmX]

No, not a fan of space stories or the characters involved.

Love this bitch too.

[Babylon23]

I stopped reading about 6 issues into RAFOTSE. Just lost interest. Vulcan wasn't working for me at all as a villain and the story seemed horribly decompressed.

Haven't followed the story since, but I've been buying GotG and Nova in trade so I'll probably end up reading War of Kings in trade for that reason.

[CmX]

I read Deadly Genesis, Bru's first arc and even followed Emperor Vulcan, but just lost interest in it when there was no conclusion in sight.

I don't care enough for Havok, Lorna or Rachel to keep reading. I heard War of Kings and Guardians of the Galaxy were great reads, but cosmic epics just aren't my cup of tea.

[Falconen]

I am following the Marvel Cosmic tales, and if they remain there I will still read about them. So, I guess if they don't show up in anything after War of Kings, they will drop off my radar.
Just a thought, but what about the spacer X-Men joining up with the Guardians? Of course, that cast of already getting a little too big in numbers, and I would rather they fade away than get lost on the shuffle like everyone in Uncanny.

[AZPolaris]

Have been following solely because of Polaris, but have read some good stories along the way. GotG has been interesting off and on. I really don't want to read Polaris in space anymore, which is why I voted to stop reading after WoK, but I know I will read anything Lorna is involved in....even if she were a member of that female wrestling team that the Thing fought. :eek:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm still reading it. Although, admitedly, mostly because I'm reading all of War of Kings - which has been brilliant so far.

But even afterwards I probably will continue to follow them. Mostly because of Alex and Rachel, two characters I particularly like to follow.

[coconutphone]

I never really did but got into WoK. It's great.

[jarrod]

Still reading, but ugh. It's time for RayPoLex to COME HOME. LIKE NAO.

[streator]

no, i stopped following the storyline after the emperor vulcan mini ended. i'd like to see havok and polaris come back to earth soon.

[Drey]

I'm still picking up War of Kings, but will stop after it's over. I was following it because I like Alex, Lorna, and Rachel--along with wanting to see Vulcan die, but the way the story has been dragging along, I feel that it's time to call it quits. I can only take so much space opera and knowing my luck, Vulcan will never die.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

no, i stopped following the storyline after the emperor vulcan mini ended. i'd like to see havok and polaris come back to earth soon.

I actually think they're doing more interesting things in Space right now. I have a feeling that they'll leave Havok out there - effectively becoming the new Corsair, and running the team as he has done long term.

The cosmic books are kind of the place to be right now.

[Mitteloss]

I actually think they're doing more interesting things in Space right now. I have a feeling that they'll leave Havok out there - effectively becoming the new Corsair, and running the team as he has done long term.

The cosmic books are kind of the place to be right now.

They are, but that doesn't mean the Starjammers are going to get their own series.

It's pretty obvious that they'll be left in limbo after WoK if they stay in space, to guest star in other cosmic books every now and again. A huge step down for X-Men who were usually appearing in a monthly book and getting character development IMO. Think, what is Polaris going to do in space other than be Havok's girlfriend and a member of the Starjammers? She's just going to fade into obscurity. Look at difference between the fan reaction to Exiles Polaris and 616 Polaris for example.

There are SO many reasons as to why they should return. Polaris and Rachel fans have over-debated and analyzed this and we always reach the same conclusion- they need to come back.

[Swashbuckler]

They are, but that doesn't mean the Starjammers are going to get their own series.

It's pretty obvious that they'll be left in limbo after WoK if they stay in space, to guest star in other cosmic books every now and again. A huge step down for X-Men who were usually appearing in a monthly book and getting character development IMO. Think, what is Polaris going to do in space other than be Havok's girlfriend and a member of the Starjammers? She's just going to fade into obscurity. Look at difference between the fan reaction to Exiles Polaris and 616 Polaris for example.

There are SO many reasons as to why they should return. Polaris and Rachel fans have over-debated and analyzed this and we always reach the same conclusion- they need to come back.

Rachel has no business returning to earth EVER AGAIN. She needs to stay in space with Korvus forever. Polaris has no reason to come home either. She doesn't want to be part of the HoM. And the HoM generally dislikes her and ignores her. These three characters would have very little to do on earth except be shoehorned into a satelite book.

[Jack Flash]

They are, but that doesn't mean the Starjammers are going to get their own series.

It's pretty obvious that they'll be left in limbo after WoK if they stay in space, to guest star in other cosmic books every now and again. A huge step down for X-Men who were usually appearing in a monthly book and getting character development IMO. Think, what is Polaris going to do in space other than be Havok's girlfriend and a member of the Starjammers? She's just going to fade into obscurity. Look at difference between the fan reaction to Exiles Polaris and 616 Polaris for example.

There are SO many reasons as to why they should return. Polaris and Rachel fans have over-debated and analyzed this and we always reach the same conclusion- they need to come back.

Would you rather them be back and not used? I don't get it. She's going to fade away into obscurity either way. I'd rather have her used in an interesting story than to come back and not be used.

[jarrod]

Rachel has no business returning to earth EVER AGAIN.
Well, besides C+C stealing all her stuff (Nimrod, Selene, timetravel w/Cable). I wonder how long until we see Rory Campbell working at The Facility on developing their new Hound Program?

[Swashbuckler]

Well, besides C+C stealing all her stuff (Nimrod, Selene, timetravel w/Cable). I wonder how long until we see Rory Campbell working at The Facility on developing their new Hound Program?

I wouldn't say any of those are Rachel specific. She has one storyline with Selene and one era of hanging out with Cable that was over in like 10 issues. I don't see how Nimrod is a Rachel centric piece either, just because he's from the furture? If anything, Rachel should die and be a sort of "warning" of what the X-Men should have watched out for.

[Mitteloss]

Would you rather them be back and not used? I don't get it. She's going to fade away into obscurity either way. I'd rather have her used in an interesting story than to come back and not be used.

How do we know they're not going to be used? Proof? On Earth, there are still plenty of opportunities and loose ends for the character. Lorna has potential on Earth and quite a few writers seem to like her.

I'm a fan, I know what's best for her.

[Jack Flash]

How do we know they're not going to be used? Proof? On Earth, there are still plenty of opportunities and loose ends for the character. Lorna has potential on Earth and quite a few writers seem to like her.

I'm a fan, I know what's best for her.

well. speaking as a fan of other characters that don't get used. I think it's shit that Polaris (et al) was used in the Space Saga and the majority of fans bitched about it from day fricking one. I know if one of my characters were included I'd be elated. Space or not. It almost makes me wish that if they do come back that they don't get used, since their fans can't be made happy.

[jarrod]

I wouldn't say any of those are Rachel specific. She has one storyline with Selene and one era of hanging out with Cable that was over in like 10 issues. I don't see how Nimrod is a Rachel centric piece either, just because he's from the furture? If anything, Rachel should die and be a sort of "warning" of what the X-Men should have watched out for.
She's had several arcs with Selene, including the one where she almost killed her and got gutted by Logan as a result. Seems thematically timely given what's been going down in X-Force, basically Necrosha is all Logan's fault.

Rachel's shown she's been able to track Cable when no one else (Xavier and Jean included) could, and even contacted him through the timestream. Again, sort of interesting context there given Messiah War.

Nimrod wouldn't be here if not for Rachel. He followed her. He's quite literally her villain mainly.


I doubt Feral's fate is in the cards for Ray. Yost clearly loves her. But keep hope alive and all that. <3 <3

[jarrod]

well. speaking as a fan of other characters that don't get used. I think it's shit that Polaris (et al) was used in the Space Saga and the majority of fans bitched about it from day fricking one. I know if one of my characters were included I'd be elated. Space or not. It almost makes me wish that if they do come back that they don't get used, since their fans can't be made happy.
Bitch plz. We're not the Glitterati.

People have been bitching because the current status quo was a pretty significant downgrade for all 3, plain and simple.

[Mitteloss]

well. speaking as a fan of other characters that don't get used. I think it's shit that Polaris (et al) was used in the Space Saga and the majority of fans bitched about it from day fricking one. I know if one of my characters were included I'd be elated. Space or not. It almost makes me wish that if they do come back that they don't get used, since their fans can't be made happy.

You can't really compare how Polaris, Rachel and Havok are treated as with D-listers. It's different. The whole situation is different. I can't really complain if Cyclops and Emma fans are unhappy with their characters storylines while their front and centre of the X-books, and then start wishing Havok and Polaris were in their position because they arn't given as much exposure?

The difference here is that for you, it would be a step up. They're being given a chance and potential. You're going to be happy. For us, it's mostly a step down for our favourites. Our characters are limited from their potential. We're going to be pissed off.

And you're over-generalising when it comes to us 'bitching'. We've really loved the positives of this storyline, but we feel like the storyline has run it's course and the three should just return.

[timbox]

Rachel and Polaris should come back from space and team up with Bishop.

[Askani's Flame]

I wouldn't say any of those are Rachel specific. She has one storyline with Selene and one era of hanging out with Cable that was over in like 10 issues. I don't see how Nimrod is a Rachel centric piece either, just because he's from the furture?

Selene may not be Rachel specific, but the two X-Men that she dealt the most with when she first joined the HFC were Rachel and Amara. Rachel did try to kill her twice after all.

And Nimrod is Rachel centric, as the whole reason it came into the past from her future was to track her down and kill her. Now mind you, this "Nimrod" is not the one from the 80's persay, but the concept of Nimrod revolves around Rachel.

If anything, Rachel should die and be a sort of "warning" of what the X-Men should have watched out for. They already did something like this. See Feral.

[Swashbuckler]

She's had several arcs with Selene, including the one where she almost killed her and got gutted by Logan as a result. Seems thematically timely given what's been going down in X-Force, basically Necrosha is all Logan's fault.

Rachel's shown she's been able to track Cable when no one else (Xavier and Jean included) could, and even contacted him through the timestream. Again, sort of interesting context there given Messiah War.

Nimrod wouldn't be here if not for Rachel. He followed her. He's quite literally her villain mainly.


I doubt Feral's fate is in the cards for Ray. Yost clearly loves her. But keep hope alive and all that. <3 <3

Please jarrod, no one said a damn thing about Feral. Leave her out of this. What other story has Rachel shared with Selene aside from the Claremont issues between her appearance and stabbing by Wolverine? I can't remember any. Also, when has Rachel ever battled Nimrod? She didn't help the team battle him in central park, she ws too busy being distracted by Spiral. He came from her timeline? Or from a divergent future timeline? As for Cable, her "chrono-skimming" has been ignored for ages. Bringing it up would be pointless now. She is barely attached to these stories.

You can't really compare how Polaris, Rachel and Havok are treated as with D-listers. It's different. The whole situation is different. I can't really complain if Cyclops and Emma fans are unhappy with their characters storylines while their front and centre of the X-books, and then start wishing Havok and Polaris were in their position because they arn't given as much exposure?

The difference here is that for you, it would be a step up. They're being given a chance and potential. You're going to be happy. For us, it's mostly a step down for our favourites. Our characters are limited from their potential. We're going to be pissed off.

And you're over-generalising when it comes to us 'bitching'. We've really loved the positives of this storyline, but we feel like the storyline has run it's course and the three should just return.

My characters have potential no matter where they are. Seems to me like you need a little more faith in Polaris.

[jarrod]

Please jarrod, no one said a damn thing about Feral. Leave her out of this. What other story has Rachel shared with Selene aside from the Claremont issues between her appearance and stabbing by Wolverine? I can't remember any. Also, when has Rachel ever battled Nimrod? She didn't help the team battle him in central park, she ws too busy being distracted by Spiral. He came from her timeline? Or from a divergent future timeline? As for Cable, her "chrono-skimming" has been ignored for ages. Bringing it up would be pointless now. She is barely attached to these stories.
Rachel's had 3 big Selene run ins (arriving in 616, HFC infiltration, Chasing Hellfire). Selene's also pretty obsessed with her, she's easily more closely linked to Ray than anyone else in the X-Men bar Emma, Magma and Sunspot. Nimrod's from Earth 811, he followed Rachel. Rachel's key to Cable's origin, she brought him into the future and saved his life. And her chrono-skimming was referenced in Reload.

Basically, all three of these stories have key connections to Rachel, in fact two of the three wouldn't even be possible if not for her involvement. I know your seething hated tends to supersede all when it comes to Rachel Summers but this is irrational even for you Swash.

[Swashbuckler]

Rachel's had 3 big Selene run ins (arriving in 616, HFC infiltration, Chasing Hellfire). Selene's also pretty obsessed with her, she's easily more closely linked to Ray than anyone else in the X-Men bar Emma, Magma and Sunspot. Nimrod's from Earth 811, he followed Rachel. Rachel's key to Cable's origin, she brought him into the future and saved his life. And her chrono-skimming was referenced in Reload.

Basically, all three of these stories have key connections to Rachel, in fact two of the three wouldn't even be possible if not for her involvement. I know your seething hated tends to supersede all when it comes to Rachel Summers but this is irrational even for you Swash.

They may have key connections to Rachel, but isn't it funny how all three of the storylines became important and more interesting once Rachel was removed from them?

[jarrod]

They may have key connections to Rachel, but isn't it funny how all three of the storylines became important and more interesting once Rachel was removed from them?
For it to be funny, it'd have to be true. Selene pretty much sucked for two decades after Rachel almost flayed her, and is only now finally getting the TLC she deserves. And Nimrod's NXM return was ZZZZZZZ.

Cable's never been good though, and Messiah War certainly wasn't. Got me there on a technicality I guess.

[Jack Flash]

Bitch plz. We're not the Glitterati.

People have been bitching because the current status quo was a pretty significant downgrade for all 3, plain and simple.

From my perspective. There really isn't a difference.

[jarrod]

From my perspective. There really isn't a difference.
Fair enough. If you can't grasp the difference between losing x versus never attaining x already, I really can't help you.

[Come To Deathstrike]

I do not get it. Havok and Lorna were doing nothing. Now they are doing something?
This is bad?

Also, didn't care about this story as soon as Hepzibah stopped being in it.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Fair enough. If you can't grasp the difference between losing x versus never attaining x already, I really can't help you.

Jarrod, leave Jed alone, he is under my protection.

[jarrod]

I do not get it. Havok and Lorna were doing nothing. Now they are doing something?
This is bad?

Also, didn't care about this story as soon as Hepzibah stopped being in it.
Stop bashing Milligan! Heathen!

[jarrod]

Jarrod, leave Jed alone, he is under my protection.
Yes sir.



*pout*

[Come To Deathstrike]

Stop bashing Milligan! Heathen!

Wasn't there a massive gap between the end of Milligan and the start of RAFOTSE?

[jarrod]

Wasn't there a massive gap between the end of Milligan and the start of RAFOTSE?
Yep. A whole month! :P

[lockerogue]

Havok should have been home a long time ago. He also should been in the Sisterhood arc.

[jarrod]

Havok should have been home a long time ago. He also should been in the Sisterhood arc.
Goblyn Thong!

[Mitteloss]

Yep. A whole month! :P

IIRC, there was literally only one week. X-Men #187 at the end of June 2006, Uncanny #475 first week of July.

OMG... 2006. 2006!

[jarrod]

IIRC, there was literally only one week. X-Men #187 at the end of June 2006, Uncanny #475 first week of July.

OMG... 2006. 2006!
lol! Ugh, gawd... COME HOME X-PEOPLE.

[Jack Flash]

Jarrod, leave Jed alone, he is under my protection.

it's cool. I am done talking with shitty people about shitty characters in a shitty thread.

[Come To Deathstrike]

IIRC, there was literally only one week. X-Men #187 at the end of June 2006, Uncanny #475 first week of July.

OMG... 2006. 2006!

LOL, I was drunk a lot in 2006. I blame this.

Then yes, Polaris can come home. H'vok and R'chel can run into Galactus.

[jarrod]

Good. Take your shitty attitude with you. <3 <3

[jarrod]

LOL, I was drunk a lot in 2006. I blame this.

Then yes, Polaris can come home. H'vok and R'chel can run into Galactus.
Rachel kicked his ass last time. Not worried.

[ClanAskani]

Well, besides C+C stealing all her stuff (Nimrod, Selene, timetravel w/Cable). I wonder how long until we see Rory Campbell working at The Facility on developing their new Hound Program?

Agreed totally. So much of what's happening on Earth is all related to Rachel. That makes it more irritating that she's stuck in space rather than back with the X-Men where she belongs.

Everything with Cable is just a repeat of what Rachel did with Cable - and it's the perfect opportunity for her to comment on it and for that to be brought up. Swierczynski even wrote that Scott handed baby Nathan directly to Rachel, so they're including her as a major part of this. Since the question of whether Scott did the right thing giving Hope to Nathan is going to come up sooner or later, it'd be nice for Rachel to be around when it happened.

I'd love for Rachel, Alex and Lorna to be the ones going "What the F#&@ is going on here?!?" when they return and see what Scott's been doing with the X-Men and Xavier's dream.

[Slant]

I'd love for Rachel, Alex and Lorna to be the ones going "What the F#&@ is going on here?!?" when they return and see what Scott's been doing with the X-Men and Xavier's dream.
They're more likely to go along with it.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Rachel kicked his ass last time. Not worried.

Galactus is now on the rampage Rachel best check herself.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Agreed totally. So much of what's happening on Earth is all related to Rachel. That makes it more irritating that she's stuck in space rather than back with the X-Men where she belongs.


Waitwhat????

[jarrod]

Galactus is now on the rampage Rachel best check herself.
Sounds like an invitation. Ray would probably go for it, she's a total size whore.

[jarrod]

Waitwhat????
Buy/Torrent some back issues. I'm done educating you troglodytes!

[Come To Deathstrike]

Sounds like an invitation. Ray would probably go for it, she's a total size whore.

Galactus is not into tattoos.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Buy/Torrent some back issues. I'm done educating you troglodytes!

I do not see how a child being born, The phalanax, Asgard, Legion and Rogue are related to R'Chel. Tellmemore.

[jarrod]

Galactus is not into tattoos.
True. He prefers his playthings smooth, unblemished and without genitals.

[Mitteloss]

They're more likely to go along with it.

Yes, but it's not like the writers would consider them having differing views in the first place.

I think we all have to accept that because the X-books are being run and written by Cyclops fans, there's hardly any chance any other character is going to be allowed to have a differing view point unless they're enemies. Or else we're going to get a similar situation to what happened with Storm in Astonishing last year...

[jarrod]

I do not see how a child being born, The phalanax, Asgard, Legion and Rogue are related to R'Chel. Tellmemore.
Hope is Nathan II (aka: Rachel III). The Phalanx is Selene's now. Hela and Rachel had a connection in Asgard. Rogue is like Rachel's big, slightly-less-crazy sister.

Legion's no big deal.

[Slant]

I think we all have to accept that because the X-books are being run and written by Cyclops fans, there's hardly any chance any other character is going to be allowed to have a differing view point unless they're enemies. Or else we're going to get a similar situation to what happened with Storm in Astonishing last year...

Well they kind of have to build everything up before it all falls down.

[Swashbuckler]

I could see Havok and Lorna returning honestly, but Rachel deciding to stay in space. She had that big moment where she realized the whole war was a lot bigger then her and her stupid vendetta. Plus there's Korvus. I bet she sticks around in space for a while. Including her in the Messiah Trilogy while maybe somewhat logical could also be convoluted. Being from an alternate timeline hurts her character a lot in my opinion.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Hope is Nathan II (aka: Rachel III). The Phalanx is Selene's now. Hela and Rachel had a connection in Asgard. Rogue is like Rachel's big, slightly-less-crazy sister.

Legion's no big deal.

Cable is of no relation to R'chel Hw'ltt. Selene treid to Eat R'chel. She's moved on. Stop straw-grasping.

[jarrod]

I'd love for Rachel, Alex and Lorna to be the ones going "What the F#&@ is going on here?!?" when they return and see what Scott's been doing with the X-Men and Xavier's dream.
I really dunno how Rachel, Alex and Lorna would fit in at the moment if they came back... I think there'd need to be a bit reshuffling, maybe post-DXM? I also don't see all three sticking together if they did, which is kinda too bad. Probably Alex/Lorna going into Uncanny's background stable, while Ray goes to X-Force or Cable.

Have to agree with Mittle too, I don't see the X-Frat letting them be the ones to stand up to Scott. I mean if Xavier, Storm and Logan got neutered over it, what chance do they have?

[jarrod]

Cable is of no relation to R'chel Hw'ltt. Selene treid to Eat R'chel. She's moved on. Stop straw-grasping.
Stryfe wants to suck R'chel's teat. It's canon. Srsly.


Selene's still hungry. As if Wither or Blink could fill her up...

[jmc247]

I really dunno how Rachel, Alex and Lorna would fit in at the moment if they came back... I think there'd need to be a bit reshuffling, maybe post-DXM? I also don't see all three sticking together if they did, which is kinda too bad. Probably Alex/Lorna going into Uncanny's background stable, while Ray goes to X-Force or Cable.

Have to agree with Mittle too, I don't see the X-Frat letting them be the ones to stand up to Scott. I mean if Xavier, Storm and Logan got neutered over it, what chance do they have?

Fraction already has said he has no plans to use Lorna or Alex and he said he has planned well into 2010. But, no there is no way Lorna and Alex are going to stand up to Scott and have a counter x-team unless they plan on turning them into clear villians again (that Scott will show up and kick the asses of).

But, I agree I don't see them sticking together either. Rachel is set up quite well for a role on a book like X-Force. Lorna there isoptions open to her back on Earth (both on and off the x-books). I really have no idea what Alex might do if he isn't going to show up on Uncanny.

[Prodigy55]

I would like Rachel and Polaris to come back.

[ClanAskani]

I really dunno how Rachel, Alex and Lorna would fit in at the moment if they came back... I think there'd need to be a bit reshuffling, maybe post-DXM? I also don't see all three sticking together if they did, which is kinda too bad. Probably Alex/Lorna going into Uncanny's background stable, while Ray goes to X-Force or Cable.

Have to agree with Mittle too, I don't see the X-Frat letting them be the ones to stand up to Scott. I mean if Xavier, Storm and Logan got neutered over it, what chance do they have?

Well, Alex, Lorna and Rachel quit the X-Men so they could go kill Vulcan, so they shouldn't be all that upset about Scott forming a black ops team. But the point was that they quit to do it and now Scott is authorizing X-Men to go kill people.

Plus, Rachel was admonished for going out and trying to kill Selene before she killed more innocent people, and now Scott wants to do exactly the same thing.

Hopefully at some point someone is going to stand up to Scott, but I see the point that Fraction and others want to make Scott out as being completely in the right.

Rachel is a perfect fit for X-Force and perhaps Cable, especially since she's become so much more houndlike lately.

And, she should be able to easily find Cable, not matter how far into the future she is.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure Swierczynski wants anyone really joining the cast. They had a prime opportunity to add to the cast by leaving someone from X-Force behind and didn't do it. But Rachel belongs as part of that story. I would have loved to see her face off against Stryfe in Messiah War. I hope he sticks around, since they've never met and he certainly has a vandetta against her.

With Alex and Lorna, would they fit in in X-Factor? PAD has written them in the past, and maybe if they get pissed off at what Scott's doing, they could join up with X-Factor.

[Faded]

How do we know they're not going to be used? Proof? On Earth, there are still plenty of opportunities and loose ends for the character. Lorna has potential on Earth and quite a few writers seem to like her.

I'm a fan, I know what's best for her.

LOL fans do not know what is best for their favorite characters. There's a bias.

If I supported Kyle and Yost killing Wind Dancer, she might be appearing in Necrosha and never went through that whole New Warriors thing.

I could see Havok and Lorna returning honestly, but Rachel deciding to stay in space. She had that big moment where she realized the whole war was a lot bigger then her and her stupid vendetta. Plus there's Korvus. I bet she sticks around in space for a while. Including her in the Messiah Trilogy while maybe somewhat logical could also be convoluted. Being from an alternate timeline hurts her character a lot in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind Havok and Lorna coming back, but I agree--they seem to be bigger fishes in the cosmic pond. Unfortunately, the main people who would miss them if they went missing would be each other.

I mean, maybe Cyclops and Magneto would care, but they're busy.

Lorna can come back if she's batshit crazy again, though. I really missed that and it was one of the things Austen did that I greatly approved of.

I hope Rachel never returns. Sorry to her fans, but she aggravated me and tended to be in X-Books with characters I otherwise liked.

[Mitteloss]

LOL fans do not know what is best for their favorite characters. There's a bias.

If I supported Kyle and Yost killing Wind Dancer, she might be appearing in Necrosha and never went through that whole New Warriors thing..

You... haven't even followed this space saga. I think you've made your feelings pretty clear.

And we can. We can't see too far ahead into the future, like the example you gave (you'd rather have your favourite character killed, disrespected by the same writers in interviews after that and return four years later as an evil, mind controlled zombie? Says enough.), but we can look at the current options, opportunities and possibilities and see what would be best for our character.

See, with Polaris, we'd rather not have her return permanently to Fraction's Uncanny, but seeing the possibility of a reunion with Magneto and her family, we want her to go back, because we know now that on Earth, there's a chance the best thing for her character development is waiting for her.

[Mitteloss]

With Alex and Lorna, would they fit in in X-Factor? PAD has written them in the past, and maybe if they get pissed off at what Scott's doing, they could join up with X-Factor.

X-Factor is great, but has a full cast, and I don't think they would fit into this more street level book. I would love to see them guest star though and reunite with Jamie, Val and Guido, that would be awesome!

[Leirus]

I only touch it because I am in love with Black Bolt. As soon as WOK is over, I stop reading.

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/e/eb/BlackBolt_by_Philip_Tan.jpg

(YUMMY!)

Grrrrrrrrrorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[jmc247]

With Alex and Lorna, would they fit in in X-Factor? PAD has written them in the past, and maybe if they get pissed off at what Scott's doing, they could join up with X-Factor.

No Alex and Lorna wouldn't fit X-Factor in my view. I could see her guest star to meet old friends for a few issues. But, I agree with Mitteloss that there is already a full cast and at this point in their lives they wouldn't really fit a street level book.

Yost: He showed interest in Polaris when he was writing her, but X-Force is realy a book for mostly covert ops missions. She could be guest star material when they they are willing to go on a non-covert mission and need a heavy hitter like for Selene on Genosha. But, for your usual Black ops mission bringing Polaris along with be like trying to thread a needle with a sledgehammer.

Fraction: He has said he has no plans for Polaris and has said he has planned out well into 2010. He is writing Magneto right now in Nation X. But, as he has said Magneto isn't the main mover in this story, Scott will be. There are alot of writers hoping to be allowed to write Magneto when Fraction is done with him in Nation X next year.

Carey: He cares about Magneto as a character and wants him on his book again, but I have no idea if he cares about Polaris or sees her as a possible fit for his book.

Chris Gage: He is co-writing Mighty Avengers now. He likes Polaris, he likes Magneto. He has a big thing for the House of M and has wrote mini after mini filling in the HoM universe and he writes both of the characters very well. Plus Pietro is there. The negative is that he is on the Avengers and X-book writers might not want to hand over Polaris to the Avengers franchise for more then a crossover.

[Mitteloss]

No Alex and Lorna wouldn't fit X-Factor in my view. I could see her guest star to meet old friends for a few issues. But, I agree with Mitteloss that there is already a full cast and at this point in their lives they wouldn't really fit a street level book.

Yost: He showed interest in Polaris when he was writing her, but X-Force is realy a book for mostly covert ops missions. She could be guest star material when they they are willing to go on a non-covert mission and need a heavy hitter like for Selene on Genosha. But, for your usual Black ops mission bringing Polaris along with be like trying to thread a needle with a sledgehammer.

Fraction: He has said he has no plans for Polaris and has said he has planned out well into 2010. He is writing Magneto right now in Nation X. But, as he has said Magneto isn't the main mover in this story, Scott will be. There are alot of writers hoping to be allowed to write Magneto when Fraction is done with him in Nation X next year.

Carey: He cares about Magneto as a character and wants him on his book again, but I have no idea if he cares about Polaris or sees her as a possible fit for his book.

Chris Gage: He is co-writing Mighty Avengers now. He likes Polaris, he likes Magneto. He has a big thing for the House of M and has wrote mini after mini filling in the HoM universe and he writes both of the characters very well. Plus Pietro is there. The big negative is that he is on the Avengers and X-book writers might not want to hand over Polaris to the Avengers franchise for more then a crossover.

Completely agree.

I'd really like for Lorna to go over to Mighty Avengers when she returns. It just seems like the right fit for her, and I've enjoyed the book so far. And after his brilliant work inCW: HoM, I'd love for Chris Gage to write her again. I don't know how realistic it is with her few Avengers connections and her being with Havok, but if I had to choose, it seems like the right book for her especially with Pietro and possibly Wanda around.

[darknessatnoon]

I don't care about Polaris. I'd stop buying Mighty Avengers if she were added.

[timbox]

I hardly think Polaris has any interest in going back to Earth for a family reunion. After you’ve been waging war on a galactic scale, I have to think the Earth and its issues would seem very insignificant and boring.

[jmc247]

I'd really like for Lorna to go over to Mighty Avengers when she returns. It just seems like the right fit for her, and I've enjoyed the book so far. And after his brilliant work inCW: HoM, I'd love for Chris Gage to write her again. I don't know how realistic it is with her few Avengers connections and her being with Havok, but if I had to choose, it seems like the right book for her especially with Pietro and possibly Wanda around.

If they were to fit her on the book they would likely have to put her and Havok onto seperate books which hasn't happened in a very long time. I think in order to fit into the current Marvel Earth ongoings all three of the Starjammers would have to move into seperate books unless there is some new ongoing out in November or December they might fit in.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Now that New Exiles has been cancelled, do you think Marvel maybe feel that Polaris is less marketable than they thought? If she doesn't have enough fans to sustain an ongoing series they might decide to leave her in limbo for a while to create more of a demand for the character.

[Mitteloss]

If they were to fit her on the book they would likely have to put her and Havok onto seperate books which hasn't happened in a very long time. I think in order to fit into the current Marvel Earth ongoings all three of the Starjammers would have to move into seperate books unless there is some new ongoing out in November or December they might fit in.

I have a feeling the writers might keep them together unless someone takes a particular interest in Lorna or Rachel. But I think for now, where ever Havok's going, Lorna's going too.

[jmc247]

Now that New Exiles has been cancelled, do you think Marvel maybe feel that Polaris is less marketable than they thought? If she doesn't have enough fans to sustain an ongoing series they might decide to leave her in limbo for a while to create more of a demand for the character.

There is a limited market for AU stories these days (outside the 616 and Ultimate Universe). Civil War House of M sales were better then Exiles, but still struggled to stay in the upper to mid 20k range after falling from 36k the first issue.

Fans are keeping long standing ongoings they like on their pull lists and buying big events like War of Kings or Ultimatum, but for not well hyped AU stories it has been very tough going of late. According to the sales of Exiles few fans gave the series a chance to start off with. The first issue of War of Kings sold extremely well. But, I am not going to say it did because Lorna had a decient role on it. Instead it was because it was a well hyped event that Lorna just happened to be on.

[jmc247]

I only touch it because I am in love with Black Bolt. As soon as WOK is over, I stop reading.

http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/e/eb/BlackBolt_by_Philip_Tan.jpg

(YUMMY!)

Very nice pic.

[jmc247]

I have a feeling the writers might keep them together unless someone takes a particular interest in Lorna or Rachel. But I think for now, where ever Havok's going, Lorna's going too.

If they create some new ongoing on Earth they would fit into I see them staying together, if they stay in space I see them staying together.

But, if they allow different writers to pick them up post War of Kings I have the feeling that they all might end up in different books. There are a number of books that could fit one more character, but not many I see that could fit two or three more without some real changes.

[Swashbuckler]

The fact of the matter is that no one cares about Polaris. She's a c-list magneto with green hair. and Rachel is a piece of crap. Claremont destroyed her forever.

[Home made ectoplasm]

The fact of the matter is that no one cares about Polaris. She's a c-list magneto with green hair.

Well that obviously isn't true, she has a number of fans on this very thread!

[Mitteloss]

If they create some new ongoing on Earth they would fit into I see them staying together, if they stay in space I see them staying together.

But, if they allow different writers to pick them up post War of Kings I have the feeling that they all might end up in different books. There are a number of books that could fit one more character, but not many I see that could fit two or three more without some real changes.

Yes, and I'd like Havok to return to a book which will respect his new found confidence in his leadership skills. The more I think about it, being with the Starjammers is great for Havok, but not for Polaris. I don't see them leaving eachother though.

[Swashbuckler]

Well that obviously isn't true, she has a number of fans on this very thread!

and where else? Some Polaris website exsist I'm sure, but to be a Polaris fan you're required to be slightly unbalanced and think the world of comics revolves around Polaris. Unflattering. None of the current writers care about her and the fact that she appeared in HoM really inflated some heads around here, in my opinion.

[AcesX1X]

i agree that polaris is not very important to the x-men mythos on the whole. she might have been relevant back when x-factor went under government control, but ever since, i've seen nothing but a series of desperate attempts to make her interesting/important. all of them have resulted in getting her removed from the bigger spotlight, yet again.

i like polaris, but she serves best as either the occasional victim the x-men need to rescue, the addled villainess looking for attention, or as occasional guest-star.

anything else has always seemed forced outside of x-factor.

[jmc247]

Yes, and I'd like Havok to return to a book which will respect his new found confidence in his leadership skills. The more I think about it, being with the Starjammers is great for Havok, but not for Polaris. I don't see them leaving eachother though.

I have long thought that the Starjammers was great for Havok. He gets to be team leader and follow in his father's footsteps while Scott was away doing his own thing. My feelings toward the space arc in regards to Lorna are similar to yours just more extreme. I think being in space is terrible for Lorna in the long run because she only gets to lead with Alex isn't around like in EV #5 and basically turns Lorna into Alex's green haired super power girlfriend. DnA and Yost tried their best to avoid that from happening and I believe they did as good a job as possible.

I have long been mostly indifferent when it comes to Polaris and shipper issues. But, the longer Lorna is in space with Alex the more it has turned me off to the relationship. I am very close to openly supporting 'death to the relationship' like Lional and others. I am not there yet, but I am slowly getting there because I do believe her entire life revolving around her boyfriend is bad for the character. It is clear to me from War of Kings #1 and 2 and EV #5 that Lorna at her best moments are when she isn't simply defering to her boyfriend, when she gets to lead and talk to other people without Alex standing next to her.

Havok/Polaris works best when her relationship/partnership with Alex is an aspect in her life, just like her family and friends are aspects in her life, when she is around him 24/7 he has a very bad habit of becoming her whole life. Then when he finally leaves for some time like at the end of X-Factor she is left a broken woman whose main reason to live is gone. I really really do not like it when her significant other becomes her whole life. There is a reason alot of fans out there still look at Lorna as a "weak girlfriendy character" as one fan put it.

[Come To Deathstrike]

You... haven't even followed this space saga. I think you've made your feelings pretty clear.

And we can. We can't see too far ahead into the future, like the example you gave (you'd rather have your favourite character killed, disrespected by the same writers in interviews after that and return four years later as an evil, mind controlled zombie? Says enough.), but we can look at the current options, opportunities and possibilities and see what would be best for our character.

See, with Polaris, we'd rather not have her return permanently to Fraction's Uncanny, but seeing the possibility of a reunion with Magneto and her family, we want her to go back, because we know now that on Earth, there's a chance the best thing for her character development is waiting for her.

What is this we?
Why do you feel she has no chance for development in Space?
Magneto has recently been up in Space with the H.E., there;s the starjammers team, She could be a member of Guardians, there's her relationship with Crystal and the Inhumans.
On Earth there is the X-Men, full of People she tried to kill at least twice.

Completely agree.

I'd really like for Lorna to go over to Mighty Avengers when she returns. It just seems like the right fit for her, and I've enjoyed the book so far. And after his brilliant work inCW: HoM, I'd love for Chris Gage to write her again. I don't know how realistic it is with her few Avengers connections and her being with Havok, but if I had to choose, it seems like the right book for her especially with Pietro and possibly Wanda around.

Wanda in Mighty Avengers would be weird and I would not enjoy it.

[Mitteloss]

I have long thought that the Starjammers was great for Havok. He gets to be team leader and follow in his father's footsteps while Scott was away doing his own thing. My feelings toward the space arc in regards to Lorna are similar to yours just more extreme. I think the space arc is terrible for Lorna in the long run because she only gets to lead with Alex isn't around like in EV #5 and basically turns Lorna into Alex's green haired super power girlfriend. DnA and Yost tried their best to avoid that from happening and I believe they did as good a job as possible.

I have long been mostly indifferent when it comes to Polaris and shipper issues. But, the longer Lorna is in space with Alex the more it has turned me off to the relationship. I am very close to openly supporting 'death to the relationship' like Lional and others. I am not there yet, but I am slowly getting there because I do believe her entire life revolving around her boyfriend is bad for the character. It is clear to me from War of Kings #1 and 2 and EV #5 that Lorna at her best moments are when she isn't simply defering to her boyfriend, when she gets to lead and talk to other people without Alex standing next to her.

Alex works best when her relationship/partnership with Alex is an aspect in her life, just like her family and friends are aspects in her life, when she is around him 24/7 he has a very bad habit of becoming her whole life. Then when he finally leaves for some time like at the end of X-Factor she is left a broken woman whose main reason to live is gone.

I agree. But I don't think Havok is the problem here, it's her being in space. Writers haven't got much opportunity to write her on her own (but when they do she's awesome), so she's stuck with him whether anyone likes it or not because that's what the storyline requires.

I'll only turn against Havolaris the same way you are if it was still holding her back on Earth.

[AcesX1X]

have you ever considered that she was left out in space not to punish you as fans, but because writers legitimately feel like she doesn't belong with the x-men?

[timbox]

Some of Marvel’s most highly regarded books are the space stories. I think you people are being a little ungrateful.

[jarrod]

lol. JAU I see the polariscrazies have ensnared you too. :P


I'd definitely welcome Alex, Lorna and Rachel (and Ch'od!) joining the GOTG, but I haven't read the book before and dunno really know they'd fit? Isn't it already a bit packed cast wise? I also suspect the Guardians fanbase would probably resent X-Characters being shoved in, though it would still probably raise sales overall.

[jmc247]

What is this we?
Why do you feel she has no chance for development in Space?
Magneto has recently been up in Space with the H.E., there;s the starjammers team


If Uncanny would have been willing to hand over Magneto for a mini series in space with the Starjammers say last summer it would have been great and managed to provide the chance for major development for Lorna. But, the x-books aren't going to want to give up the first meeting between Lorna and Magneto in a decade to the cosmic universe. Part of the reason they have put off the meeting between the two of them for so long is it isn't easy to do without telling one of the most important stories in Magneto's history based on a time period we have never seen from Magneto (the time between meeting Xavier in Israel and the time he created the Brotherhood. We are talking about the biggest remaining origins story for Magneto that has yet to be told and I am sure the x-books want to be where the story gets told considering both of them are x-books characters.


Wanda in Mighty Avengers would be weird and I would not enjoy it.

Wanda? :tongue:

But, now that I think about it if Gage managed to get Wanda, Lorna, and Pietro on the same book that would be quite the feat. Though they would probably end up at each others throats and at least one of them would end up quitting after long. After Lorna finds out what Wanda did it would be a war between the two of them with Pietro in the middle defending Wanda and I suspect Lorna would be going at it with Pietro as well over starting everything.

[darknessatnoon]

lol. JAU I see the polariscrazies have ensnared you too. :P


I'd definitely welcome Alex, Lorna and Rachel (and Ch'od!) joining the GOTG, but I haven't read the book before and dunno really know they'd fit? Isn't it already a bit packed cast wise? I also suspect the Guardians fanbase would probably resent X-Characters being shoved in, though it would still probably raise sales overall.

The cast already has a telepathic dog, a telepathic praying mantis, and a telepathic dragon. A telepathic dinosaur is not needed.

[Robbiebob_16]

Some of Marvel’s most highly regarded books are the space stories. I think you people are being a little ungrateful.
Agreed. Iv'e been following War of Kings because I like the format, and plan to continue just to see Lorna, Havok, and Lilandra. To be honest, i'm not reading it for those "charming moments" between Rachel and Korvus. I'm not crazy about those two characters in general. I don't know why, they just bother me.

[timbox]

I don't know why, they just bother me.

That's perfectly normal. They bother everyone.

[AcesX1X]

Part of the reason they have put off the meeting between the two of them for so long is it isn't easy to do without telling one of the most important stories in Magneto's history based on a time period we have never seen from Magneto (the time between meeting Xavier in Israel and the time he created the Brotherhood. We are talking about the biggest remaining origins story for Magneto that has yet to be told and I am sure the x-books want to be where the story gets told considering both of them are x-books characters.

what in the world gives you that idea?

[jmc247]

Some of Marvel’s most highly regarded books are the space stories. I think you people are being a little ungrateful.

:tongue:

The first crossover I bought from Marvel was Infinity Gauntlet, the second was Infinity War. I have bought all three major crossovers DnA has put out the past few years and I love characters like Gamora, Galactus, Adam Warlock, Thanos, Silver Surfer and others.

But, they are cosmic characters with all their links to their family and friends in space. Lorna isn't a cosmic character and has most of who she is as a character tied up in Earth based issue. I have no trouble with Lorna in space on a mission like she is now to take on a bad guy. But, I am against turning her into a cosmic reoccuring character with her new worldview all based on cosmic issues. That would the same in my mind to bringing Gamora to Earth and making her an Avenger. I would be completely against that. Now her allying with them for a mission against some bad guy I would support as has happened in the past.

[darknessatnoon]

:tongue:

The first crossover I bought from Marvel was Infinity Gauntlet, the second was Infinity War. I have bought all three major crossovers DnA has put out the past few years and I love characters like Gamora, Galactus, Adam Warlock, Thanos, Silver Surfer and others.

But, they are cosmic characters with all their links to their family and friends in space. Lorna isn't a cosmic character and has most of who she is as a character tied up in Earth based issue. I have no trouble with Lorna in space on a mission like she is now to take on a bad guy. But, I am against turning her into a cosmic reoccuring character with her new worldview all based on cosmic issues. That would the same in my mind to bringing Gamora to Earth and making her an Avenger. I would be completely against that. Now her allying with them for a mission against some bad guy I would support as has happened in the past.

Mantis was an Avenger. So was Moondragon. Crystal was in the Avengers and the FF. Polaris is related to Crystal and Crystal is now a cosmic character. If no one wants to write a story with her on earth, then let the people who actually want to write her writer her. Otherwise, get ready to see your character banished from comic books entirely.

[timbox]

Even the cosmic characters have to come from somewhere. They seem to be accepting of Polaris, no matter how crazy she is.

[Robbiebob_16]

That's perfectly normal. They bother everyone.

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone. Old Lace is the only telepathic dinosaur for me, thank you very much.

[jmc247]

what in the world gives you that idea?

Back pre-Genoshan genocide she found evidence that the plane her mother on was magnetized which in Lorna's mind meant it was possible Magneto downed her plane. Now there are many other reasons it could have been magnetized including him looking through the wreck for her. Hell, its possible it was all part of a ruse to make Magneto's enemies think she was dead so she could dissapear because there were people out to kill her. But, that whole issue would be an 800 pound guerilla in the room in any meeting between them.

They might be able to gloss over that issue for some time after the two meet, but it is the sort of issue that can't just be ignored forever.

[jarrod]

The cast already has a telepathic dog, a telepathic praying mantis, and a telepathic dragon. A telepathic dinosaur is not needed.
That's fine. I've been informed by reliable sources that <3<3 Matt Fraction <3 <3 is a Rachel Summers MEGAfan, so he could snag her instead. Dodson could always use another massively endowed redhead for the backgrounds. Also, I'm sure Hellion would be happy knowing he's no longer the most insane telekinetic in SF. Win/Win/Win

[darknessatnoon]

Back pre-Genoshan genocide she found evidence that the plane her mother on was magnetized which in Lorna's mind meant it was possible Magneto downed her plane. Now there are many other reasons it could have been magnetized including him looking through the wreck for her. Hell, its possible it was all part of a ruse to make the world think she was dead so she could dissapear because there were people out to kill her. But, that whole issue would be an 800 pound guerilla in the room in any meeting between them.

They might be able to gloss over that issue for a little time, but it is the sort of issue that can't just be ignored forever.

Maybe Graviton downed the plane and it had nothing whatsoever to do with Magneto. In fact, I bet Graviton is actually Lorna's father.

[Home made ectoplasm]

Maybe Graviton downed the plane and it had nothing whatsoever to do with Magneto. In fact, I bet Graviton is actually Lorna's father.

could be a thread in this...

[jmc247]

I agree. But I don't think Havok is the problem here, it's her being in space. Writers haven't got much opportunity to write her on her own (but when they do she's awesome), so she's stuck with him whether anyone likes it or not because that's what the storyline requires.

I'll only turn against Havolaris the same way you are if it was still holding her back on Earth.

I agree space is the biggest problem limiting her ability to interact on her own with other characters and to lead. But, if she stays in space and becomes a space pirate or joins the GotG or some other cosmic series as a guest star she will be stuck in the same position for much longer.

That is one of the main reasons why I very much support them returning back to Earth. There are several others as you know.

[jmc247]

Maybe Graviton downed the plane and it had nothing whatsoever to do with Magneto. In fact, I bet Graviton is actually Lorna's father.

No it was the Robot Magneto in Uncanny 50, pretending to be Xorn's brother, pretending to be Xorn, under the influence of Sublime and the mind alter drug Kick.

Bwhahahaha

[Come To Deathstrike]

The cast already has a telepathic dog, a telepathic praying mantis, and a telepathic dragon. A telepathic dinosaur is not needed.

If Rachel Joined she would instantly be the worst Telepath. No
If Lorna joined she would for once not be the most insane! Yes
If Alex joined, he'd be the best Human-Male. Maybe

[jmc247]

Otherwise, get ready to see your character banished from comic books entirely.

I can take the possibility of Earth limbo. I am a fan of Scarlet Witch and I have put up with her being in limbo for years now. But, sooner or later (likely next year according to Bendis) Wanda will be back in action.

[AcesX1X]

but jmc, those events were all under a different set of writers.

i have not seen any interest from fraction, K&Y, or mike carey to suggest they are even remotely interested in exploring stories with her, nor have any of them brought up lorna where it relates to magneto.

i am just having trouble understanding why you think she is in such a high demand on earth. i haven't seen that evidence. she does OK in space though, and people seem to like writing stories about her there.

[jarrod]

Yost loves Lorna. He even said so, she was his favorite to write in EV/KB.

Lorna in X-Force? If they went the crazy road again, I could see it...

[AcesX1X]

Yost loves Lorna. He even said so, she was his favorite to write in EV/KB.

but, jarrod, has he given any indication that he loves her on EARTH? i would love to see something to that effect if you have access to it.

[jmc247]

Have been following solely because of Polaris, but have read some good stories along the way. GotG has been interesting off and on. I really don't want to read Polaris in space anymore, which is why I voted to stop reading after WoK

I am right there with you.

There has been big ups and big downs of the three year battle against Vulcan, but once WoK ends I want the Vulcan saga over and them back on Earth.

[jarrod]

but, jarrod, has he given any indication that he loves her on EARTH? i would love to see something to that effect if you have access to it.
Yost's love is unconditional. Like a mother. I can attest to that.

[jmc247]

i am just having trouble understanding why you think she is in such a high demand on earth. i haven't seen that evidence. she does OK in space though, and people seem to like writing stories about her there.

I didn't say there is a high demand for her on Earth, certainly I look at the x-books and see a few places she might guest star in from time to time and I look at the Avengers and see places where could guest star.

But, the point is the core of her character is rooted in Earth based issues. On Earth when the X-Men or X-Force need a heavy hitter she can be there. When there is some big Summers family issue she can show up to help Alex. When there is some big issue with her family she can show up.

Then when I writer finally decides she could fit some book as a regular she can appear there. It was terrible for Lorna as a reoccuring character in the 70s and 80s. Because there was only a few titles and she didn't have many connections outside of Alex. Today there are alot more titles and she has alot more connections for writers to play with.

[jarrod]

Someone post the scan of Lorna massacring all those Chinese guards (and Logan getting totally freaked out over it). The more I think about Po-Force, the more it seems right... plus she and Rahne can be bffs again.

[jmc247]

Someone post the scan of Lorna massacring all those Chinese guards (and Logan getting totally freaked out over it). The more I think about Po-Force, the more it seems right... plus she and Rahne can be bffs again.

She threw them around and crushed a bunch of tanks and kicked the ass of the Chinese, but it more seemed to turn Logan on then anything else.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/Austen/w.jpg

Though I remember a scene back in 2003 when Lorna, Logan, and Scott were fighting religious nut Purifier like killers. Back then it was Logan and Lorna that were happy to kill them and Scott was still in his X-Men don't kill mindset.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/Austen/10.jpg

[jarrod]

lol. I know it's wrong, but I kinda loved the Morrigan outfit.

[Robbiebob_16]

Yost loves Lorna. He even said so, she was his favorite to write in EV/KB.

Lorna in X-Force? If they went the crazy road again, I could see it...
Lorna is a whole lotta crazy, and I love it. I would love to see her contribute to X-force and lose her mind and her cool. By the way, who doesn't love Lorna? I think writers love to have fun with her because she's loose a few screws.

[Come To Deathstrike]

LOL. This is such a logic vacuum.

[End of Time]

I never did, but I wanted to...

But before I picked up the first issue of our hapless heroes in space I kept hearing people say that the first mini series didn't have a statisfying conclusion and that it was just a lead in to the next miniseries.

That turned me off, and I found myself just reading recaps and saying to myself that I wasn't really missing much. With Vulcan still having such a prominent role, I still don't think I'm missing much, because he really was the low point of Brubaker's run.

Still, somewhere in the back of my mind... there is the nagging urge to go and pick the whole thing up...

[jmc247]

That turned me off, and I found myself just reading recaps and saying to myself that I wasn't really missing much. With Vulcan still having such a prominent role, I still don't think I'm missing much, because he really was the low point of Brubaker's run.

Still, somewhere in the back of my mind... there is the nagging urge to go and pick the whole thing up...

If I were in your shoes I would pick up Emperor Vulcan and War of Kings in trade when it finally comes out in a few months.

[Slant]

LOL one second they should be the ones to tell Scott what he's doing is wrong, the next they should join X-Force.

[jmc247]

LOL one second they should be the ones to tell Scott what he's doing is wrong, the next they should join X-Force.

I didn't say they should tell off Scott for his actions. What I have said is I think Lorna would work well on big missions against foes with major power like Selene where the X-Force need a big gun and it is in a place where they aren't worried about having their cover blown

But, for an operation to kill foe like a Purifier leader in a Black Ops mission where they have to go in and out quickly and quietly sending a multi billion tesla living conduit of electromagnetism is like using a sledgehammer to thread a needle.

Look at it this way in Days of Future Past Magneto went to Logan when he needed someone for a Black Ops in and out mission done against a bunch of human scumbags. The Master of Magnetism wouldn't be good for a quiet and fast Black Ops mission and the same is true of the Mistress of Magnetism.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f132/jmc247/X-Factor%20and%20Milligan/Wolverine_days_of_future_past.jpg

[Come To Deathstrike]

FRAPTION!!

Polaris:
multi billion tesla living conduit of electromagnetism

[jmc247]

multi billion tesla living conduit of electromagnetism

Its the Earth's EM field that has billions to perhaps trillions of teslas of electromagnetic energy. Magneto and Polaris are conduits of that energy that can use a certain amount of it at any given time and manipulate it.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Its the Earth's EM field that has billions to perhaps trillions of teslas of electromagnetic energy. Magneto and Polaris are conduits of that energy that can use a certain amount of it at any given time and manipulate it.

Polaris has Green Hair. Havok has Blonde Hair. :smile:

[jmc247]

Polaris has Green Hair. Havok has Blonde Hair. :smile:

When your right your right. :biggrin:

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Choice #3.

Might pick up the saga's final trade if the Shi'Ar empire gets culled or something.

[Faded]

You... haven't even followed this space saga. I think you've made your feelings pretty clear.

And we can. We can't see too far ahead into the future, like the example you gave (you'd rather have your favourite character killed, disrespected by the same writers in interviews after that and return four years later as an evil, mind controlled zombie? Says enough.), but we can look at the current options, opportunities and possibilities and see what would be best for our character.

See, with Polaris, we'd rather not have her return permanently to Fraction's Uncanny, but seeing the possibility of a reunion with Magneto and her family, we want her to go back, because we know now that on Earth, there's a chance the best thing for her character development is waiting for her.

No, I'd rather my favorite character be in good stories.

I think at the end of the day, a fan can only hope for their favorite character be in a good story and not fit into our fan fiction (and I'm dogging you for that cuz I sure do love my "Create an X-Men lineup" threads, but shoooot, girl, let's be ril).

Well, I'm glad I'm not alone. Old Lace is the only telepathic dinosaur for me, thank you very much.

I can tell that you're a good person.

[Robbiebob_16]

FRAPTION!!

Polaris:
multi billion tesla living conduit of electromagnetism
Love it. I'm in a physics course right now and that actually makes sense to me.

No, I'd rather my favorite character be in good stories
I can tell that you're a good person.
After looking at your list of favorites, you're an even better person.

[jarrod]

Might pick up the saga's final trade if the Shi'Ar empire gets culled or something.
Rachel already started with their Queen. <3 <3

[Prodigy55]

Old Lace & R'Chel. Hot. Hot.

[Robbiebob_16]

Old Lace & R'Chel. Hot. Hot.
Only one of them is hot, and it's not the redhead.:biggrin:

[ClanAskani]

LOL one second they should be the ones to tell Scott what he's doing is wrong, the next they should join X-Force.

I could see allthree of them being on either side of the X-Force argument.

I’d like to see Alex stand up to Scott, but I’m not sure about Alex or Lorna being any sort of moral compass after everything that they’ve done. But they could at least argue that while Scott wasn’t completely wrong, he’s gone about things the wrong way. I’d love to see them question the move to San Francisco, but I can’t see Fraction or anyone doing that.

Alex and Lorna never have been all committed to being X-Men or Xavier’s dream to be angry at Scott and the others from changing course during a crisis. Rachel has been indoctrinated into believing in Xavier’s dream since birth. She would be the most committed to what it means to be an X-Man and their mission. But she’s never had a problem with killing and doing what it takes to protects mutants. She’d be Scott’s biggest cheerleader.

And that’s why it so wrong for Rachel to be stuck in space right now. She’s so tied to the fight to save mutants and fighting against government pursuit of mutants, that there’s no reason for her to stay in space when things are so dire for mutants facing extinction on earth.

Once the Greys are avenged and Vulcan is dead, she has no reason to stay in space since her mission is tied to helping mutants on earth. That’s what defines her character. Otherwise, she’s just another random telepath in space with no reason to be there, especially when staying in space is abandoning her mission to prevent her future from happening, and the promise she made to help her baby brother.

Alex and Lorna, on the other hand, aren’t quite so committed to the mutant cause. They could just as easily quit being superheroes to have normal lives. But joining X-Force with the current mission? I'm not sure they'd want to do that.


The way War of Kings is going, I don’t see them even fitting in space. After the character death, they’ve lost their main connection to the Shi’ar and any reason to fight for them once Vulcan is dethroned. And the way the Inhumans are going, they’re going to end up being the villains and a threat to the galaxy. But as long as the Inhumans or anyone else isn’t a threat to Earth, would they really care? There are plenty of other groups to deal with whoever comes out of War of Kings as a threat. Why Alex, Lorna or Rachel would see it their duty to stay behind and police the galaxy when they’d be free to return home wouldn’t fit with their characters.

[darknessatnoon]

I think Rachel should fall into one of those holes in space that the Guardians of the Galaxy keep warning about. And die.

[Mr_Hellfire]

Much like smoking, I never started.
But I have sampled one or two issues out of, y'know, the 30 issues there are of this Starjammers BS. Besides, it just seems to be very slow-moving.