What makes you like Marvel more than DC?

[numberONE]

've been reading the "what makes you like DC more than Marvel?" thread on the DC board, and wanted to hear the opposite side to this. What makes you like Marvel more than DC?

I've only been reading comics within the last year or so, and while I've read tons of DC, I haven't really read any Marvel - just one trade of Ultimate Spider-Man and one of X-Men. I was drawn to DC, I think, because of the more iconic feel to that universe, also the concept of the multiverse really appealed. However, since, I've only read a few Marvel, I can't fairly say I like DC better, let alone why I like it better.

[Mermaid]

I don't read an awful lot of comics but when I go to buy them at the comic store it always seems to be the Marvel characters that appeal to me more. It's not a conscious thing....I just go for what I like. I've never bought a DC comic.

[Sabaition]

've been reading the "what makes you like DC more than Marvel?" thread on the DC board, and wanted to hear the opposite side to this. What makes you like Marvel more than DC?

I've only been reading comics within the last year or so, and while I've read tons of DC, I haven't really read any Marvel - just one trade of Ultimate Spider-Man and one of X-Men. I was drawn to DC, I think, because of the more iconic feel to that universe, also the concept of the multiverse really appealed. However, since, I've only read a few Marvel, I can't fairly say I like DC better, let alone why I like it better.

Truthfully, since being a kid, "80's" lol, I always felt DC's characters were over powered. I read ALOT of DC, as my mom collection was HUGE. Superman and many others seemed to have no limit. An the power sets make no since. Superman and Wonder Woman should literally speed stomp nearly everyone thery fight. Just like how Gladiator did in War of Kings. They need to watch and learn. Plus characters like Thing and Wolverine had this air of "Cool Tough Guy" that as I kid i wanted to be like. Then they took away their cigars and attitudes. Marvel had guys like the Thing who was a hero but HATED being the Thing. Even as a kid it made me sad and like him.

Currently, I just find Marvel for all it's darkness still more fun. Plus.. Marve has Incredible Hercules. That alone keeps me away from DC.

The only characters I like in DC now are Black Adam and Captain Marvel (the REAL Captain Marvel) and while they've had their moments, DC doesnt push anything I wanna see. They just keep doing big events that cost me over a hundred bucks for a yeart just to give me CRAP for endings. Heck, it's about time characters like Power Girl got a new run. Long as keep her as far away from a Super Girl type persona the longer I'll be happy.

However I will admit. Marvel has let me down a bit lately. My FF has been CRAP for to long with Thing going from Marvels toughest gut checker to Marvels b!tch boy. An now he's all happy all the time, GAG!!! The new Mighty Avengers annoyed me cause I wish Quick Silver would go away and STAY away. An Hulk by Loeb just erks me to no end, lol. Thor let new Loki run around unwatched which was just dumb. Zeus was killed by a villian who was scared of Ares, which make no since and is just bad writing. Cancelling an INCREDIBLE series in Captain Britain. Hmmmmm, dang. Guess it's a good thing they do have Herc or I might actually be reading nothing now, lol.

[Mainline]

Greater allowance for artist-driven (rather than writer-driven) works... in the 90s what was known as the "Marvel Way". Now, neither company really follows the Marvel or DC Way as they were stereotyped back then, but- broadly speaking- Marvel has better adapted and learned from DC than DC has learned from or adapted from DC in terms of starting book lines or runs.

Shameless and sly exploitation of their intellectual property, the rise of Marvel Studios, etc. Marvel has been strategically setting themselves up for continual success across all forms of media (films, games, etc.) in a way that makes their stock continue to grow. They've been recapturing licensed IP wisely while DC struggles to hold onto their flagship Superman. The WB over DC means a lot less freedom in seeing DC characters across as many mediums.

Other than those things it's really a wash that's less applicable to the publishers and more to any specific writer, arc, or idea which- most times- could've come from either house.

[numberONE]

The only characters I like in DC now are Black Adam and Captain Marvel (the REAL Captain Marvel) and while they've had their moments, DC doesnt push anything I wanna see. They just keep doing big events that cost me over a hundred bucks for a yeart just to give me CRAP for endings. Heck, it's about time characters like Power Girl got a new run. Long as keep her as far away from a Super Girl type persona the longer I'll be happy.


Did you know Power Girl has a new series?

[Rurik]

Deadpool, Hercules, Squirrel Girl, Machine Man, and Amadeus Cho. DC has never really done it for me, not as far as heroes go, I do love some of Batman's villains though, Harley, Joker, and Ivy especially.

Plus Marvel has all my favorite heroes from growing up, Spider-Man, Hulk, Gambit, but it makes me kind of sad seeing what they've done with a lot of them, taking people who used to be real heroes like Spidey and Reed Richards, and having them literally making deals with demons, hunting down their fellow heroes instead of villains, and betraying their long time friends and allies and launching them into deep space. Despite that though, Marvel still has better characters in my opinion. (Save for the rare DC gems like Rorschach, but he's not part of the mainstream continuity.)

I mean, you've got Wonder Woman, who at some point turned into a Superman clone, the one I remember had an invisible jet, and a lasso that made people tell the truth, sure they were lame, but at least she wasn't just another character with flight and super strength. Then of course you've got their big dog himself, Superman, super strong, super fast, able to fly, x-ray vision, heat vision, super breath, and nigh invulnerable, except he's allergic to chunks of his own home planet, which if his people were killed by the rocks, how were they able to even survive on the planet? And let's not forget the single, lamest hero of all time, Aquaman, he talks to fish. And at some point he became a redneck Captain Hook with a mullet.

Compare this to Marvel, you've got numerous gods running around, Hercules being my favorite, super geniuses like Amadeus Cho who could shut down just about anyone with a rubber band, some staples, and a wad of chewed gum, brilliant comedic characters like Deadpool, and of course the most powerful hero of all time, Squirrel Girl.

[Mainline]

Despite that though, Marvel still has better characters in my opinion.

I mean, you've got Wonder Woman, who at some point turned into a Superman clone, the one I remember had an invisible jet, and a lasso that made people tell the truth, sure they were lame, but at least she wasn't just another character with flight and super strength. Then of course you've got their big dog himself, Superman, super strong, super fast, able to fly, x-ray vision, heat vision, super breath, and nigh invulnerable, except he's allergic to chunks of his own home planet, which if his people were killed by the rocks, how were they able to even survive on the planet? And let's not forget the single, lamest hero of all time, Aquaman, he talks to fish. And at some point he became a redneck Captain Hook with a mullet.

Compare this to Marvel, you've got numerous gods running around, Hercules being my favorite, super geniuses like Amadeus Cho who could shut down just about anyone with a rubber band, some staples, and a wad of chewed gum, brilliant comedic characters like Deadpool, and of course the most powerful hero of all time, Squirrel Girl.
You obviously qualified it with "in my opinion" but I've got to say you've got a stunning bit of a double standard there going.

- You complain about DC characters being derivative and overpowered, then say Marvel is great for having numerous [derivative Roman/Greek] gods running around, Hercules (a demigod, by the by) running around.
- Superman is critiqued for his powerset and being illogically allergic (despite actual allergies being still much a mystery to modern science), while Amadeus Cho is held up as awesome for having deus ex machina mental abilities completely outside the realm of reality and using an utterly absurd metric of "7th smartest" (when none of the first six have the same deus ex ability). While a writer can use Superman's powers to to plausibly engage threats, Cho will always be dropping a deus...
- Aquaman's power is mocked, but Squirrel Girl is praised... and while you can't be bothered to keep up with what makes Aquaman compelling- relying only on snapshots- we're expected to accept that Deadpool is comedic genius when snapshots from his Leifield origins or perhaps Wolverine Origins are far less flattering.

I suspect most such prejudices are illusory. The complaint about overpowered characters never stopped Marvel cosmics, gods, and reality benders from frequenting the pages of Marvel or being popular... and certainly did little to slow the trend amongst the X-Men for finding novel and devastating ways to use their powers, until it was rote, ridiculous, to the point of secondary mutations and requiring a damn "No More Mutants" reset button to mitigate the mess. I mean Magneto was a functional telepath and teleporter using just magnetism at one point, nevermind Iceman or the god-like TKers (who can NOT be counted on one hand).

Any concerns about dark v. light haven't been reading DCU since the 90s. If anything it's more a product of reinforced marketing than anything inherent.

[Rurik]

First, Hercules is a full fledged god in Marvel, not a demi-god, his divine half was separated from his mortal half when he died in ancient Greece, the divine half is the one running around punching people in the face. Second, Squirrel Girl is praised because she can literally beat anyone, in her very first appearance she saved Iron Man from Doctor Doom. Third, get your terms straight, Deus Ex Machina is an outside force that just suddenly appears to save the day, Hulk appearing out of no where for no apparent reason to smash whoever was about to kill Amadeus would be Deus Ex Machina, Amadeus saving himself using his own abilities is not Deus Ex Machina.

[Mainline]

First, Hercules is a full fledged god in Marvel, not a demi-god, his divine half was separated from his mortal half when he died in ancient Greece, the divine half is the one running around punching people in the face. Second, Squirrel Girl is praised because she can literally beat anyone, in her very first appearance she saved Iron Man from Doctor Doom. Third, get your terms straight, Deus Ex Machina is an outside force that just suddenly appears to save the day, Hulk appearing out of no where for no apparent reason to smash whoever was about to kill Amadeus would be Deus Ex Machina, Amadeus saving himself using his own abilities is not Deus Ex Machina.And here I was hoping your citations were in jest but you're actually serious. My goodness. Well, to turn this around on you...

"I mean, you've got Hercules, who at some point turned into a GOD, the one I remember was a demigod, had some seriousness to him, and sure he was lame but at least he wasn't just another character with super strength, deity, and cut from the same cloth as Ares and Hulk... heck, he's the 'Incredible Hercules' now!"

"Then of course you've got the big brain himself, Amadeus Cho, super-smart, super-calculating, super-lucky, smart-alecky, and allied... except his only claim to fame is being the 7th smartest... but he's not really all that smart, just calculating, because none of the first 6th smartest can do his impossible calculations realtime as he does. So how did he get the title anyways? Would smart people really use a metric of 'smartness' with discrete linear ranking? Sounds dumb. How could anyone be that smart anyways?" [Gosh, I suppose one could either know the backstory better or suspend one's disbelief as they do with kryptonite but that's asking way too much!]

"And let's not forget the single, lamest hero of all time, Squirrel Girl, she talks to squirrels. And at some point, Deadpool was a Liedfield creation and at another he had no mouth and forearm swords."

[Followed by a list of truisms on why DC characters are better....]

I mean... really?

As for "Deus Ex Machina"... sorry kid, but Amadeus Cho is a walking deus because the writer can literally write ANYTHING and Cho can claim credit as it is a product of his intellect, calculation, and strategy. When the writer has unlimited ability to impose his will upon the story without restraint, that is the same thing as the outside force- analogous to the God Puppet of Greek Theater- plopped into the plot to resolve any issue at will.

[Rurik]

Hercules was weaker originally because he was being punished by Zeus, weakening his strength and immortality, Zeus lifted this punishment during the Ares limited. Amadeus Cho is called the "Seventh Smartest" because that's the title the Excello Soap Company gave him when he won their contest. And Squirrel Girl at least, unlike Aquaman, can use her powers on dry land, where most of the big events in both universes take place. Summoning a whale doesn't do much good if all it can do is beach itself.

And no, Amadeus can't be considered a Deus Ex Machina because he's not an outside force, he's there from the start. Plus he requires massive amounts of energy to use his powers, if he could just constantly solve problems he could fix the entire universe and put all the other heroes out of business.

[ironbyte]

personally i like Marvel more than DC for 2 basic reasons:

1) the more realistic approach marvel uses in his stories and characters tha DC

2) DC characters are too perfect, too powerful and unappealing for me

[Mainline]

Hercules was weaker originally because he was being punished by Zeus, weakening his strength and immortality, Zeus lifted this punishment during the Ares limited. Amadeus Cho is called the "Seventh Smartest" because that's the title the Excello Soap Company gave him when he won their contest. And Squirrel Girl at least, unlike Aquaman, can use her powers on dry land, where most of the big events in both universes take place. Summoning a whale doesn't do much good if all it can do is beach itself.[Sarcasm flagged as it seems necessary...] Wow. Really. :rolleyes: So you mean all "my" shallow dismissals and protests are merely born of ignorance and shallow stereotypes dispelled by actually knowledge of the characters, suspension of disbelief, and company bias!? :eek:

You don't suppose someone could "pwn" your complete Aquaman ignorance or complete DCU misinterpretation through the same method do you? Nah, that's impossible, clearly there's no double standard here!

[Mainline]

And no, Amadeus can't be considered a Deus Ex Machina because he's not an outside force, he's there from the start.You're very good at repeating yourself, but not particularly good at understanding the concept of deus ex machina. "No more mutants", "Brand New Day", and Amadeus Cho are deus ex machina not because Wanda, Mephisto, and Cho didn't exist but because any effect could be imposed upon the story, carte blanc and at will, using them as an excuse... no one cares whether a literal Machine God drops from the sky into the plot, it's the power to create the same effect.

[Rurik]

I know all I need about the DC characters I don't like, note the important fact that I specify which DC characters there. I've tried reading their comics over the years numerous times, and with few exceptions, the characters are just flat out boring. They manage a few rare gems like the Joker, Ivy, and Harley, though Harley is hardly their's to claim, she was created by the Batman the Animated Series team, not the comics.

Are there Marvel characters I dislike? Yes, quite a few, even some of my childhood heroes right now due to the way Marvel has been portraying them. I still love the heroes I grew up with, but the people running around calling themselves Spider-Man, or Tony Stark right now? Those aren't the same heroes.

The difference is the simple fact that Marvel has more characters that I do like than DC does. If the roles were reversed, then I'd like DC more, but I'd still find Aquaman and Superman just as lame regardless, just like I find Daken and Skaar lame regardless of being Marvel characters.

And again, Amadeus Cho can not be used at will for any effect they want to use him for. If he could do that he would've been able to prevent World War Hulk. His powers have limits, if he uses them for too long without eating anything to recharge, he becomes just as dumb as any other teenaged kid.

[Mainline]

personally i like Marvel more than DC for 2 basic reasons:

1) the more realistic approach marvel uses in his stories and characters tha DC

2) DC characters are too perfect, too powerful and unappealing for me

1) Doubtful, there's MAJOR suspension of disbelief going on in both houses, it seems more to do with what people decide they will tolerate for the sake of their biases rather than a genuine reflection of reality one way or the other.

2) Perfect? Who... for every paragon of virtue you name I can find his vice OR his equal in Marvel... with respect to power, many of the X-Men are more powerful than MOST of the DCU, say nothing of cosmics, the Fantastic Four, Hulk, or Thor. Marvel is far from immune to the trend to power-up (and then forget about it)... Spider-Man: The Other, Ironman Extremis... and, apparently, Hercules. :P The power-level thing is almost entirely illusory...

[Mainline]

I know all I need about the DC characters I don't like.Spoken like a true... well, I suppose any form of ignorant bias would work here, most ending in "ist". I'm stunned the double standard isn't apparent though. So "I know all I need to know about Squirrel Girl, Cho, and Herc to know they're D-listers who suck" is completely fair statement right? Or does that person need to be regaled with enlightening trivia about why they're wrong?

And again, Amadeus Cho can not be used at will for any effect they want to use him for. If he could do that he would've been able to prevent World War Hulk.That's horrible reasoning. Why would the writer short-circuit their entire plotline just because Cho CAN do something? There's no doubt that Mephisto could have risen up and resolved everything too, but that doesn't mean he HAD to. The point is that the writer can excuse ANYTHING with Cho. Even drained of his "brain food", no matter how WWH had resolved, Cho could claim it was all set in motion by his actions and calculations even taking into account his present lack of brain food... and you'd swallow it. That's the mark of a deus ex machina. They simply elected not to exercise that.

[Rurik]

And you completely ignore the fact that I don't care what company the characters come from, if I like them, then I like them, if I don't like them, then I don't. The simple fact of the matter is that Marvel has more characters that I do like than DC does, while DC has more characters that bore me to tears.

That's the point by the way, they didn't "short circuit" World War Hulk by having Amadeus solve everything with his powers because he can't.

You'll note by the way, I'm not one of the ones who's complained once in this thread about characters being over powered. I wouldn't care of Amadeus Cho could make the sun explode just by twitching his nose, I'd still like him just because I find him amusing. He's like a smartass teenaged MacGyver. And even if a writer were to ignore his weakness, it still wouldn't be Deus Ex Machina, it would just be a case of bad writing. Like a writer ignoring the fact that Superman can't handle Kryptonite, and yet having him beat down some kind of hundred foot tall Kryptonite golem with no protection and yet not being harmed at all.

[Iron Maiden]

Mine is pretty much a long standing preference because of the stark contrast between DC and Marvel at the time I started reading comics back in the 1960's. Marvel was far more character-driven beginning with the FF, the comic I've read the most over the years. If you were to pick up a Marvel comic and then a DC title of the same time period back then, you would have seen the difference. These days the differences are probably not as noticible because the writers and artists go back and forth between the companies. I remember what a shock it was when Jack Kirby left Marvel to go to DC. Now if the internet were around back then, that's when it would have broken in half, Rich Johnston!

Most of the DC comics back then were "done in one" kind of stories and Marvel started out pretty much the same. Sometimes there was no reference to past events. Slowly, that beast called continuity began to emerge along with the shared Marvel Universe. Stan started to cross-pollinate by having some guest shots of characters in the FF (or by having te FF guest in ASM #5 for example) to generate interest in their solo titles for the obvious commercial reasons. Then you had the multi-issue arcs that were pretty much unheard of at DC at that time.

The letters pages where a hoot to read back then in Marvel and there was no equivalent of Stan at DC. He was largely responsible of generating that feeling that you were part of this club of outcasts going up against the DC juggernaut. My leanings toward buying Marvel continues to this day. I've sampled a few things like "Hush" because of all the hype and I've liked some other things from companies outside of the big 2 like Waid's "Ruse" and "Empire". I have a soft spot for Tower comics THUNDER agents, one of their characters being the source of my avatar. The economics of buying a lot of titles makes me less experimental plus I am set in my ways! There's just too many titles out there to keep up with it all anymore.

[TOAA]

Characters being overpowered in DC is stupid argument. Thor/BRB, Silver Surfer/heralds, Hulks, Ghost Riders, all Illiuminanti and Cabal members. Those are i remember now without thinking and they all can give DC heroes a run for their money.

What i dislike are somewhat bland/repetitive powers of their top guns.
Their constant focus on Trinity. I started reading Trinity hoping that it might be ok jumping point but it was barely readable with constant reminder on why those three are soooooo important, maybe it got better later. Same with some team books i tried to read, it looked like they can`t do a shit without Trinity.
Cosmic scene is somewhat bland besides GLs when compared to Marvel`s, imo of course.
Continuity fcked up even more than Marvel`s.
Poor placement of the titles. BN has already started but only now we are getting FC aftermath books.
Not many writers that i follow on their side. But that will change with JMS going there.

[Mainline]

And you completely ignore the fact that I don't care what company the characters come fromI'm trying to highlight that you really really do, applying a ridiculous double standard and pretending they're reasons as opposed to plain bias.

while DC has more characters that bore me to tears.It's pretty easy to be bored to tears if you refuse to suspend your disbelief, are ignorant of the characters, and paint them with shallow dismissals, which I've shown your double standard does (your favorites utterly fail to clear the SAME bar you've put before your cited DC characters).

That's the point by the way, they didn't "short circuit" World War Hulk by having Amadeus solve everything with his powers because he can't.Wow, again with the repeating as if that's makes sense. So, by this logic, Mephisto- who completely altered reality and changed memories of the universe- "can't" stop WWH? "Didn't" isn't the same as "can't".

You'll note by the way, I'm not one of the ones who's complained once in this thread about characters being over powered.
"Superman, super strong, super fast, able to fly, x-ray vision, heat vision, super breath, and nigh invulnerable"... I'm sure you listed all that just out of admiration or your own health.

[MatthewHex]

I think the main thing it comes down to is the creators of the books. Both Marvel & DC have great characters but in general I would say Marvel have a better set of writers than DC (not always as I love Geoff Johns & G Morrison) but there are more great writers at Marvel than at DC imo.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm trying to highlight that you really really do, applying a ridiculous double standard and pretending they're reasons as opposed to plain bias.

It's pretty easy to be bored to tears if you refuse to suspend your disbelief, are ignorant of the characters, and paint them with shallow dismissals, which I've shown your double standard does (your favorites utterly fail to clear the SAME bar you've put before your cited DC characters).

Wow, again with the repeating as if that's makes sense. So, by this logic, Mephisto- who completely altered reality and changed memories of the universe- "can't" stop WWH? "Didn't" isn't the same as "can't".


"Superman, super strong, super fast, able to fly, x-ray vision, heat vision, super breath, and nigh invulnerable"... I'm sure you listed all that just out of admiration or your own health.

Why all the acrimony ? You're attacks are bordering more on the personal so I think you should rein that in. You are also on a fool's errand here .... it's like telling someone he should like pepperoni pizza instead of sausage and mushroom. You can't beat someone up over their preferences. I don't like Superman either and you can't make me....so there! :biggrin:

[Sixa]

First of all,I have nothing against DC characters with godlike/Strength based power like Superman,Wonderwoman,Supergirl, and others.

If DC has them,So does Marvel(Sentry,Capt Marvel,Hercules,Thor).

Now that can be put aside.

I think my love affair with Marvel comic started with Spiderman.I remember intending to purchase something Batman/Superman related when my eye turned to the bargain section.A complete issue of Spiderman:Arachnid Project at a low price(thus bargain).I have lost all the issues but since then my whole collection of Marvel Superheroes grew.From Spiderman,Fantastic 4,Thor,Daredevil.


Why do I prefer Marvel more than DC?I guess the sense of realism/tragic in Marvel character appealed to me back then(Daredevil,Spiderman).Something about DC character just doesn't fit me.Characters like Superman seems too perfect when he's Clark Kent.Characters like Batman seems to dark and depressed at times(same can be said for Daredevil though).

The number of Superheroes also play a factor for me.I love the huge number of Superheroes and Team-up in Marvel.I also love some memorable events in Marvel character that really left impact on the character(Death of Stacy's,Origin of Matt Murdock,Kingpin knowing DD identity,Thor sometimes lost his patient during surgery,Dr strange relationship/team-up with Thor and Spiderman and lots more)


I guess I am too attached to Marvel characters that I can't really read anything Dc anymore(except some by Morrison and Moore).I guess back in my childhood I see 3 patterns between Marvel and DC fans.

-A fan of DC and later convert to Marvel fanboy(me:redface: )

-A fan of DC and after reading some Marvel,still find DC the best.(I have several friends like this and I am glad too!!So they can fill me in if something in DC is interesting)

-started reading comic with Marvel material and....well....all the way Marvel since then(This is much more common these days)

[Rurik]

No, because I apply the same standards to the Marvel universe as I do to the DC universe. First and foremost is personality, if the character has a boring personality, I'm not going to like them, period. Captain America has a boring personality, as such, I don't much like him, same goes for Daken, Skaar, Ms. Marvel, or Binary, or whatever the hell she's going by these days, Cyclops, and for that matter the majority of the other X-Men as well, save for Wolverine, Beast, Gambit, and Nightcrawler.

Second most important thing is do I have fun reading it? Squirrel Girl, Deadpool, Incredible Hercules, Death's Head, Nextwave, all fit this criteria, the current Iron Man, Fantastic Four, and even Spider-Man do not. As stated, if DC had more characters like Rorschach, Harley Quinn, and the Joker who I thoroughly enjoy reading, then I would like DC more than Marvel, however I'd still find all the characters I consider lame to be just as boring regardless of which company I preferred.

DC, Marvel, Black Horse, Dynamite, all that matters to me is that I have a good time reading the story, the last things I ever look to see is what company put the comic out, who wrote it, and who did the art, because I really don't care.

And the reason I listed all of Superman's powers, was to highlight how incredibly lame his weakness is.

[Mad Rocks]

Mainline, you need to stop getting so butthurt about people not liking DC. People are entitled to their opinions and can like and dislike whatever they wish to.

[AllisterH]

re: Power

Here's the thing about power. It doesn't matter how powerful the hero is...what matters is how powerful his OPPOSITION is.

Thor for example is one of the most powerful heroes in either DC or Marvel. His villains by and large are at least the same powerlevel.

Sure, Superman has Mxy (and now other kryptonians) but compared historically to Thor? Celestials, Kurse, the Destroyer, Heralds etc.

To put it bluntly, DC writers tend to write their heroes somewhat braindead (wait, Diana is sublight fast in reaction speed and she's getting tagged by arrows? ) whereas marvel seemed better able to give an underdog vibe to their character.

It's the difference between having Flash have trouble with the rogues and Surfer getting manhandled by Thanos.

re: History
For me, its partly history...when I was younger, I loved the fact that black heroes were present in the marvel universe from the beginning (you can't get more cred than being a Stan Lee-Kirby creation see Black Panther or the father of the mutants - Claremont and Storm).

Vanthlo and Tyroc were slaps in the face.

[Triforce]

Difficult question. It's hard tot put a finger on it.

I've been reading almost exclusively Marvel as a kid and grew up with these characters. That is a bond which is not easily broken. I think a lot of my fellow Marvel fans are somewhat biased because of experiences like this.

However, I also read Superman and Batman as a kid, and I dropped Superman pretty early on. The reason for this was that even at about 13 years old I missed a real threat because of him being overpowered and Superman/Clark Kent was too perfect. As a kid, I liked to be able to either identify with the characters or they had to be cool and bad-ass (this was the 90's after all). Both flawed and cool characters were mostly found in the X-Men books in these days. Plus, they had Jim Lee! I kept reading some Batman though.

As years went on, I kept reading Marvel and as my budget grew, I started to try some different things. I've made sidesteps tot the DC Universe at times, but they usually don't really appeal to me (exceptions being Identity Crisis and the Loeb/Mc Guiness/Turner Batman/Superman run).

For regular superheroes I get enough of a kick out of Marvel comics and I miss a knowledge of the backstories of (minor) DC characters to really enjoy most of these stories on the same level. I prefer to buy something that's really different, like the Wildstorm and Vertigo-stuff.

As for the realism-factor. I get the feeling (from the limited number of DC books I have read) that DC often has a more sci-fi kind of feeling to it, while Marvel more often has a 'street'-level of realism, which I prefer.

Also, I agree that most of my favourite creators work for Marvel. I'd like to get people like Jim Lee, Gail Simone, Grant Morrison and Ed Benes for example working at Marvel though.

[Dog]

I got into comics by randomly buying comic trading cards around 1992. I loved the descriptions of the Marvel characters and their rivalries, while the DC ones just seemed kind of silly and childish. Whether that first impression can be argued persuasively or not, I have no idea. But it stuck.

And I only have room in my brain for one Universe.

[Sabaition]

Did you know Power Girl has a new series?

Yeah, I actually learned about it yesterday and am trying to get the 1st issue... 2 and 3 were actually great in my oppinion.

[Phantom Druid]

I usually prefer DC, but Marvel has the edge in the myhological department. A good pantheonic event has the potential to even the scale on my pull list.

[SydneyFalco]

I like Marvel cause I grew up reading Marvel. Pretty basic.

As to what might've attracted me to Marvel in the first place, I'm gonna say it was probably three characters: Spidey, Cap, and Black Panther. The Marvel books I first latched onto (best as I can recall) had the "flippidy doo", agile, sleek guys who dodged bullets and threw punches. Something about that clicked with me. (I was a pretty lumbering child).

And the characters bantered and joked. They seemed less remote.

Plus, I remember liking that Marvel took place in Manhattan. It felt more "real", and I always had a "New York Crush", even as a kid.

Mind you, I'm half-guessing. I'm not one of those folks who can remember their childhood well or easily.

It all worked out, I guess, because I grew to like team titles, hero interaction, and for the stories to be interconnected and consistent. Marvel works better for that. And whenever I try to read DC multi-hero events I find the complex, cosmic sturm and drang just doesn't suit me.

[mournblade94]

I'm trying to highlight that you really really do, applying a ridiculous double standard and pretending they're reasons as opposed to plain bias.

It's pretty easy to be bored to tears if you refuse to suspend your disbelief, are ignorant of the characters, and paint them with shallow dismissals, which I've shown your double standard does (your favorites utterly fail to clear the SAME bar you've put before your cited DC characters).

Wow, again with the repeating as if that's makes sense. So, by this logic, Mephisto- who completely altered reality and changed memories of the universe- "can't" stop WWH? "Didn't" isn't the same as "can't".


"Superman, super strong, super fast, able to fly, x-ray vision, heat vision, super breath, and nigh invulnerable"... I'm sure you listed all that just out of admiration or your own health.

Rurik is giving opinions and you are telling him he is wrong.

He is no more wrong than you are. Double Standard? Even if so who cares?

For any dumb marvel story that is cited, a dumb DC story can be cited. For any dumb origin in marvel there is one in DC.

Green Lantern, my favourite DC and the only one I ever used to read, has a dumb power with ... light?

A silver dude is a HErald of galactus and rides a Surf Board?

Amadeus Cho is not Deus ex machina, not even close. To say that he is, is saying Green Lantern is Deus ex machina.

Anything Amadeus can calculate, Green lantern can conjure.

With that said I like Marvel more because I find the characters relationships more complex. I grew up on DC cartoons, but when I started picking up comics I only ever read marvel, except for Alan Moore comics. I simply like Marvel more because I grew up reading it. Everytime I have given DC a chance, I have been bored.

[Darthbobvilla]

In just a few words:

Lee,Kirby,Ditko.Romitas


Nuff said!

[Mainline]

Rurik is giving opinions and you are telling him he is wrong.

He is no more wrong than you are. Double Standard? Even if so who cares?Very first responding post acknowledge the gap in opinion, but proceeds to lay out why his criteria were illusory when his own picks failed to clear the same bar he set for his disliked DC characters.

Since then, he's changed up the goal posts into "personality", and he's entitled to do so, but it doesn't change the fact his original reasons were bull. "I dislike a character based on ignorant snapshots." Is surely an honest opinion but hardly a qualified one. If one's whole sum knowledge of any character- be it Aquaman being just Superfriends and JLAvAvengers or Deadpool from Wolverine Origins- there's a genuine question of validity. Sure, everyone has their own tastes, but I wouldn't look to a vegan or a chronic take-away eater to hand out meaningful Michelin Stars.

Meanwhile, if everyone's opinion is so valuable, what does it matter if I'm sharing mine- that the criteria used were imaginary? If no one should care, why care what I say or is it merely a double standard meant to protect the illusion?

I could care less if people prefer Marvel over DC. It's a commercial fact that Marvel is more successful in market share, popularity, and franchising. They're arguably stronger on brand recognition overall (across the board if not in absolute terms). When something is targeted at kids, I completely expect those with limited budgets to invest in one house and grow accustomed. An to be sure, there are differences, but there's no reason not to call out the BS ones.

I wouldn't believe someone who tried to tell me that Pepsi was this rich full body orgasm and Coca Cola medical sugar water or that Miller is piss while Coors is nectar when they're mostly the same bloody thing (the latter even being merged, corporately)... much less where the person has only sipped one or the other. But who would begrudge a household for only having Pepsi or Coors? No one reasonable, they're entitled to their preference born of nostalgia, marketing, or the subtle difference in taste... but I'm going to call someone out if they say it's because of carbonation.

[Infinity Man]

I posted in the "Why do you like DC more than Marvel" thread, because as of right now I do. If you want to read my reasonings you can find them there; thats not the point of this post. All I want to say here is that I hope that the primarily Marvel fans will be able to put up some new reasons for me to read Marvel. I'd really like to be a fan of both.

[ThisMortalSoil]

I'll admit, a lot of it probably has to do with growing up on Marvel properties rather than DC, but IDK. I know DC has a rich history, and I still think Batman is one of the best heroes ever, but there's something about most of DC that just stops me from getting into it. Wonder Woman? She just doesn't appeal to me. Green Lantern? Okay, he has a green ring that he has green powers with. But his vulnerability is yellow? I could pick apart Marvel just as much, but the feeling I got from reading Marvel, is that it has more "character". A lot of the DC heroes just seem to be god-like. I find myself enjoying the street-level adventures of an unlucky young guy driven by guilt to do heroics a lot more than the adventures of a billionaire, an alien, and an Amazon princess.

[spiderwire]

I started watching Morgan Freeman (great trivia question) play Spiderman on the Electric Company learning show. My dad introduced me to Spiderman comics back in the late 70's and I have been Marvel ever since. Batman was good but Daredevil is better. Super Man is an icon but nobody ever question why Clark Kent was 6'4" 250lb and looked like Super Man with glasses. What I'm saying is Marvel characters are always more believable period.

[John Zaleski]

Mainline, you need to stop getting so butthurt about people not liking DC. People are entitled to their opinions and can like and dislike whatever they wish to.

butthurt....love that term

[John Zaleski]

i just feel like the characters have a lot more personality over at marvel. also more lighthearted

[SquidSquod]

What I like most with Marvel is their wealth of characters. These are not just legacy or elemental characters who I often find bland but unique characters with their own personality & can pop everywhere in the universe. Captain Britain, Sasquath, Sabra, members of the Big Hero 6, Karnak, etc.

What I dislike with Marvel is their hypocricy, from editors, writers, down to the readers. First you got the flawed character hypocricy. Marvel keep telling their characters are flawed but when you got Captain America, Black Panther, and Thor I don't really buy that argument anymore. There lots of other hypocricies creeping up in Marvel I keep my ears closed when they're trying to hype them up.

For the moment I'm looking forward more to DC thankfully pretty condensed main Big 5 storylines (Blackest Night, Flash Rebirth, B&R, New Krypton) offering than Marvel because now Marvel seem to be in a rut when it comes to individual universe storylines. In a gist, I want to read about the character rather than that character’s tend to be forgettable role in the greater universe. So there goes my dilemma with Marvel - they have a lot of potentially great unique characters, but they forget to flesh them out in the name of crossover events. I hope Marvel have learned their mistakes, started 2010 with more individual stories rather than forgettable melting pot that we got for so long.

[pariah-1972]

1. no sidekicks
2. no wide line reboots of the whole Marvel Universe
3. characters don't wear underwear on the outside anymore
4. not every book is all "Argh" and death and destruction and emo-ness
5. better use of obscure characters
6.better cross-overs and events
7. better artists and writers (most of the time)
8. more respect for teen characters to be independent and not a sidekick to someone else.
9 better movies.
10 easier for me to keep track of their characters -universes- and aliens and books (mostly cause of said lack or wide line reboots)
11. Joe Quesada for all his faults (and they are plenty of them) is nowhere as much of a tool as Didio seems to be.

12. Marvel doesn't force feed there boring ass "trinity" into every g'damn book

13.Marvel doesn't spend years and months hyping a product for it to come out and completely fail to live up to it's expectations.
14. costumes get updated for the changing times on a regular basis.
15 there merchandise and products are much more available i go into my local dollar store and they have tons of Spider-man and Hulk junk (not comics unfortunately)
16 better use of minority characters.
17. i'm almost tempted to say less editorial interference but i don't think that's quite the case.


I guess i have run out of numbers:eek:
And just in case anyone is gonna get all trolly or upset Dc does do some good things and Marvel is nowhere near perfect.

[Puunk]

Truthfully, since being a kid, "80's" lol, I always felt DC's characters were over powered. I read ALOT of DC, as my mom collection was HUGE. Superman and many others seemed to have no limit. An the power sets make no since. Superman and Wonder Woman should literally speed stomp nearly everyone thery fight.

LOL! I LOVE YOU.

That's exactly why I don't like Superman. The man's got no limits.

I read this one interview where writer Frank Miller explained how he revitalized Daredevil - he felt Daredevil before had been one of those heroes with no limits or boundaries, so he created some for Daredevil; he also explained that he didn't like Superman because Superman's "all-powerful" powerset made him distinctly unbelievable and unrealistic. Reading this made me love Miller to death.

1. no sidekicks
3. characters don't wear underwear on the outside anymore
5. better use of obscure characters
8. more respect for teen characters to be independent and not a sidekick to someone else.
9 better movies.
10 easier for me to keep track of their characters -universes- and aliens and
12. Marvel doesn't force feed there boring ass "trinity" into every g'damn book
13.Marvel doesn't spend years and months hyping a product for it to come out and completely fail to live up to it's expectations.
16 better use of minority characters.

Great points!

Especially #3. Really ticks me off.

[Arschloch]

I don't bother much with DC because they constantly portray Superman as the center of their universe. He's the be-all and end-all, the nexus, of superheroics. The best anyone can do is imitate him... and there are a lot of imitators.

This doesn't really happen in Marvel. There's more diversity.

[Mainline]

I started watching Morgan Freeman (great trivia question) play Spiderman on the Electric Company learning show. My dad introduced me to Spiderman comics back in the late 70's and I have been Marvel ever since. Batman was good but Daredevil is better.Valid personal reasons in my opinion.

Super Man is an icon but nobody ever question why Clark Kent was 6'4" 250lb and looked like Super Man with glasses. What I'm saying is Marvel characters are always more believable period.But this is bogus and arbitrary when: 1) EVERYONE has questioned the secret identity even from his Golden Age beginnings (in book) but like every Marvel hero who's brushed up against that dilemma and overcome it, Clark's done the same if only one would either read the stories or extend the same benefit of suspended disbelief to one house as they do the other.

2) "Period" is a conclusive truism which I think is born out of the bias rather than fact. For example, Marvel's bread and butter is street-level NYC crime... that it even exists in a city that- in real life is already fairly safe- much less one with as high a superhero density as Marvel NYC is really pushing the boundaries of believability. Moreover, Spidey's [original] origins are pretty sketchy and scientifically wrong (ex: "proportionate strength") and mechanically impossible (ex: getting from Queens to Manhattan on skyhooks?)... though, certainly, one may say Spidey's more believable as a character (a personality rather than powerset). But most of this tends to come from investment in Parker and ignorance of Kent rather than an objective standard. Superman, for example, has sustained numerous long running serials (radio, TV, animation, and film) not for a lack of character. I'd be pretty tough to fill all that airtime if he was as cardboard or unbelievable as accused. Instead, it seems that the company that picks you first gets the benefit of suspended disbelief while the other suffers the scorn of insensibility.

In my opinion, sure "believable" can be a valid reason but rarely is under the surface.

[John Zaleski]

1. no sidekicks
2. no wide line reboots of the whole Marvel Universe
3. characters don't wear underwear on the outside anymore
4. not every book is all "Argh" and death and destruction and emo-ness
5. better use of obscure characters
6.better cross-overs and events
7. better artists and writers (most of the time)
8. more respect for teen characters to be independent and not a sidekick to someone else.
9 better movies.
10 easier for me to keep track of their characters -universes- and aliens and books (mostly cause of said lack or wide line reboots)
11. Joe Quesada for all his faults (and they are plenty of them) is nowhere as much of a tool as Didio seems to be.

12. Marvel doesn't force feed there boring ass "trinity" into every g'damn book

13.Marvel doesn't spend years and months hyping a product for it to come out and completely fail to live up to it's expectations.
14. costumes get updated for the changing times on a regular basis.
15 there merchandise and products are much more available i go into my local dollar store and they have tons of Spider-man and Hulk junk (not comics unfortunately)
16 better use of minority characters.
17. i'm almost tempted to say less editorial interference but i don't think that's quite the case.


I guess i have run out of numbers:eek:
And just in case anyone is gonna get all trolly or upset Dc does do some good things and Marvel is nowhere near perfect.

you win!!!

[Mainline]

12. Marvel doesn't force feed there boring ass "trinity" into every g'damn bookWolverine. But bias aside, I'd say most of your points are valid.

[Mainline]

That's exactly why I don't like Superman. The man's got no limits.This is plain ignorant and as wrong as saying "Every Marvel character is an angry mutant."

[Puunk]

This is plain ignorant and as wrong as saying "Every Marvel character is an angry mutant."

Well too bad - that's just how I feel. To me, his multitude of powers are just unappealing.

Your comparison doesn't make sense.

[pariah-1972]

Wolverine. But bias aside, I'd say most of your points are valid.I know Wolverine is in a lot of books but most of the stuff he is in he doesn't take away the spotlight as much.
Like in the New Avengers for example.

[Iron Maiden]

This is plain ignorant and as wrong as saying "Every Marvel character is an angry mutant."

Then I suppose by extension you are also saying Frank Miller is ignorant for saying Superman's powers were limitless?

[mournblade94]

2) Moreover, Spidey's [original] origins are pretty sketchy and scientifically wrong (ex: "proportionate strength") and mechanically impossible (ex: getting from Queens to Manhattan on skyhooks?)... though, certainly, one may say Spidey's more believable as a character (a personality rather than powerset).

Are we SERIOUSLY going to discuss the scientific accuracy of superhero comics? How can flash's physiology stand up to his superspeed? How can light merely shifted up the visible light spectrum make someone like Superman Godlike? (Go analyze the diffences in radiation from a yellow to red sun to see how 'ridiculous' superman's story is. ) But you know what... they are ALL ridiculous.

How is a person defying gravity and flying MORE beleivable than someone moving through the city on skyhooks? How is that even valid criticism?

It is impossible to say that DC is more scientifically accurate than Marvel heroes. It is just not true because both equally pay no attention to science.


But most of this tends to come from investment in Parker and ignorance of Kent rather than an objective standard. Superman, for example, has sustained numerous long running serials (radio, TV, animation, and film) not for a lack of character. I'd be pretty tough to fill all that airtime if he was as cardboard or unbelievable as accused. Instead, it seems that the company that picks you first gets the benefit of suspended disbelief while the other suffers the scorn of insensibility.

In my opinion, sure "believable" can be a valid reason but rarely is under the surface.

If you are trying to say that all characters are EQUALLY unbeleivable, it is easy to agree. Saying that one side is more believable than another however is dubious regardless of which side you are on.

[pariah-1972]

you win!!!Where's my no prize?

[Something Other]

3. characters don't wear underwear on the outside anymore


I just want to say I love this one. :biggrin:

I read both Marvel and DC as a kid but gravitated more toward Marvel because the characters seemed to have more depth. There could be action, humor, and pathos all in the same story.

I'm not saying DC doesn't do this, but the way Marvel did it seemed to appeal to me more. I love characters who are "outsiders" in some way, like Spider-Man has been at times, or the X-Men are.

And then I found Deadpool, and that was all she wrote.

[pariah-1972]

I just want to say I love this one. :biggrin:

I read both Marvel and DC as a kid but gravitated more toward Marvel because the characters seemed to have more depth. There could be action, humor, and pathos all in the same story.

I'm not saying DC doesn't do this, but the way Marvel did it seemed to appeal to me more. I love characters who are "outsiders" in some way, like Spider-Man has been at times, or the X-Men are.

And then I found Deadpool, and that was all she wrote.Yeppers Deadpool is full of a lot of win in this boys book.

I mean he can be funny and kill a guy at the same time that's unheard of in comics you either have to be all angst ridden or happy joy joy.

He also has horrible skin and has no luck with the ladies -- what guy who reads comics can't relate to that dilemma?

[Mainline]

Well too bad - that's just how I feel. To me, his multitude of powers are just unappealing.

Your comparison doesn't make sense.Well too bad, I've decided to dissect how you feel.

The comparison is that there's a grain of quasi-truth amidst a boatload of willful blindness. Sure, Superman is part man and has a number of powers, but it's beyond hyperbole to say he's got no weaknesses. Even the those under a rock could cite Kryptonite, Doomsday, or his on-film challenges and those more familiar with the genre list the tropes of the superhero genre (secret ID, morality, family, etc) and finally those with a bit of background go into magic, Red Sun radiation, sonics, phasing, psychics, cosmics, blunt force, etc. Even completely ignorant, given just the mere existence of a character who's filled decades of stories across every medium, one would plausibly reason that somehow conflict must be reasonably induced to sustain the character over all that. The dismissal is- aside from being inaccurate- completely absurd from a logical standpoint.

Likewise, calling every Marvel character a mutant or angry is nonsense even if numerous citations can be given, there are countless exceptions that anyone on any spectrum of comic familiarity can recognize... and even if a casual person can't distinguish between why Spidey, Hulk, and FF aren't mutants, but the X-Men and Turtles (not Marvel, I know) are, it would be stupid to make such a blanket statement devoid of factual accuracy.

[Iron Maiden]

Very first responding post acknowledge the gap in opinion, but proceeds to lay out why his criteria were illusory when his own picks failed to clear the same bar he set for his disliked DC characters..

Illusory? How can one's own opinions be so? In the first post he was merely was pointing out that he didn't like the change in Wonder Woman and Aqua-Man. He also said similar things about Marvel. I would call that pretty evenhanded.

Since then, he's changed up the goal posts into "personality", and he's entitled to do so, but it doesn't change the fact his original reasons were bull. "I dislike a character based on ignorant snapshots." Is surely an honest opinion but hardly a qualified one. If one's whole sum knowledge of any character- be it Aquaman being just Superfriends and JLAvAvengers or Deadpool from Wolverine Origins- there's a genuine question of validity. Sure, everyone has their own tastes, but I wouldn't look to a vegan or a chronic take-away eater to hand out meaningful Michelin Stars...

Sheesh...I've read it all now. A comic book snob. Do you hold your pinky finger out when you read one?

Well too bad, I've decided to dissect how you feel....

I got it.... I think Doctor Doom is trolling the boards just for kicks. he doesn't like Squirrel Girl either!

[Mainline]

I know Wolverine is in a lot of books but most of the stuff he is in he doesn't take away the spotlight as much.
Like in the New Avengers for example.I think this is just a measure of how much you slack you decide to give a house. One could claim it enhances the feeling of a shared universe, gives the fans what they want, and makes everyone relevant if so colored. But, in my opinion, I don't think they appear and/or steal the show nearly as much as you might imagine- or compared to the rather dramatic level of overlap Marvel engaged in by putting Ironman, Hulk, Spidey, Cap, or every flavor of Avengers out during their last three company-wide events. If anything, DC has failed to deliver the same level of company-wide relevance that Marvel is pushing (whether successfully or not).

Then I suppose by extension you are also saying Frank Miller is ignorant for saying Superman's powers were limitless?Absolutely. Of course, Miller is prone to hyperbole, which can be excused as such, but if adopted by readers as gospel is then ignorant.

Saying that one side is more believable than another however is dubious regardless of which side you are on.Exactly my point, if you read the post it was responding to:
What I'm saying is Marvel characters are always more believable period.

[Phantom Druid]

Then I suppose by extension you are also saying Frank Miller is ignorant for saying Superman's powers were limitless?Franks Miller's statement was pretty ignorant, yes.

[Mainline]

Illusory? How can one's own opinions be so? In the first post he was merely was pointing out that he didn't like the change in Wonder Woman and Aqua-Man.One's opinions can be whatever they are, but the reasoning expressed is illusory even if he faithfully believes it himself. He pointed out that he didn't like changes in characters that he doesn't know, read, or understand- except enough to dislike them through snapshots- which is a standard that all of his favorites (Herc, Squirrel Girl, or Deadpool) would fail if judged the same way.

I'm not sure why you need to defend an poorly supported opinion except to preserve your house.

[Iron Maiden]

Franks Miller's statement was pretty ignorant, yes.

Not really because that was pretty much true with Superman back in the early days. They had to bring out the Achilles heel just to bring him down to a believable scale. All those other weaknesses that Mainline lists were added on over the years. Why would they have done so if not that even DC believed that his powers were almost limitless?

[Puunk]

Well too bad, I've decided to dissect how you feel.

The comparison is that there's a grain of quasi-truth amidst a boatload of willful blindness. Sure, Superman is part man and has a number of powers, but it's beyond hyperbole to say he's got no weaknesses. Even the those under a rock could cite Kryptonite, Doomsday, or his on-film challenges and those more familiar with the genre list the tropes of the superhero genre (secret ID, morality, family, etc) and finally those with a bit of background go into magic, Red Sun radiation, sonics, phasing, psychics, cosmics, blunt force, etc. Even completely ignorant, given just the mere existence of a character who's filled decades of stories across every medium, one would plausibly reason that somehow conflict must be reasonably induced to sustain the character over all that. The dismissal is- aside from being inaccurate- completely absurd from a logical standpoint.

Likewise, calling every Marvel character a mutant or angry is nonsense even if numerous citations can be given, there are countless exceptions that anyone on any spectrum of comic familiarity can recognize... and even if a casual person can't distinguish between why Spidey, Hulk, and FF aren't mutants, but the X-Men and Turtles (not Marvel, I know) are, it would be stupid to make such a blanket statement devoid of factual accuracy.

It was not a statement. It was my opinion.

^And yes, that's the only part of what I read.

[Phantom Druid]

Not really because that was pretty much true with Superman back in the early days. They had to bring out the Achilles heel just to bring him down to a believable scale. All those other weaknesses that Mainline lists were added on over the years. Why would they have done so if not that even DC believed that his powers were almost limitless? I wasn't aware of the rest of the context around that statement, or what time frame he was refering to. I just saw the specific statement you posted, and that alone sounded ignorant.

[Mainline]

Not really because that was pretty much true with Superman back in the early days. They had to bring out the Achilles heel just to bring him down to a believable scale. All those other weaknesses that Mainline lists were added on over the years. Why would they have done so if not that even DC believed that his powers were almost limitless?Again, this is ignorant because Superman started out in the "early days" as quite limited. Certainly, his powers grew with time and popularity (which can be said of EVERY popular Marvel character) but they were no more "limitless" as a truism than Spider-Man was "cheesy" if I were to cite the Spider-Mobile/Buggy, Amazing Friends, or punching out Firelord. All characters evolve and citing a narrow period as evocative of the character throughout all eternity is ignorant.

[pariah-1972]

I think this is just a measure of how much you slack you decide to give a house. One could claim it enhances the feeling of a shared universe, gives the fans what they want, and makes everyone relevant if so colored. But, in my opinion, I don't think they appear and/or steal the show nearly as much as you might imagine- or compared to the rather dramatic level of overlap Marvel engaged in by putting Ironman, Hulk, Spidey, Cap, or every flavor of Avengers out during their last three company-wide events. If anything, DC has failed to deliver the same level of company-wide relevance that Marvel is pushing (whether successfully or not).

A:Well i do give Marvel a lot of slack in some area's but Wolverine being on every team doesn't bother me that much when a lot of the team's he is on he doesn't do much to take away the spotlight from other people.

But i'm not disagreeing that he is in too many books.

But i also think he serves a genuine purpose in a lot of books cause he approaches things differently especially on team books.

But i gave up on Wolverine Origins after it's last crossover with Legacy and had dropped the book way before that.

But just for the last New Avengers arc i read i don't remember him doing much of anything of course the same could be said of the rest of the team who got to stand around and do nothing while the Mystic's went down on Dormammu .

[Gitaroo_Dude]

People need to stop saying "Well, it's my opinion" as a general defense. It's lazy, because opinions can be and often are wrong.

Myself, I no longer prefer Marvel over DC, really I just enjoy what both put out. I used to be naive and bought into that "Marvel has better street-level stuff and more grounded heroes" and then I discovered books like Manhunter and Gotham Central. Not to mention I think their current cosmic titles have better main characters (Vril Dox and Green Lanterns) compared to Marvels. They also strike me as more creatively daring at the moment with stuff like Wednesday Comics and earlier efforts like Solo. And of course, the Lantern mythos is something Marvel doesn't have an answer too.

I still enjoy Marvel though. I think they have a better stable of writers, they have the benefit of characters I grew up with as a kid watching TV, that "zeitgeist" feel to their books, and a better list of artists too. And they've upstaged the Titans as the premiere younger team with books like Runaways and YA.

[Mainline]

pariah, I would say, especially now, that Marvel is more guilty of "let's put this character in every other book" syndrome as a habit than DC is of late. Certainly Osborn and Wolverine, but Deadpool, the Avengers, etc. are cross-over heavy. The DC's trinity is- temporarily- deconstructed with Bruce "dead", Superman gone, and Wonder Woman forced into exile without those big two... but obviously with Blackest Night, DC will force the issue with Green Lantern... and maybe Flash to a lesser extent. You're probably right that an event ago there was Trinity fatigue... but that's why they're out of the rotation right now and DC is trying to build up GL/Flash. In general, Marvel is better at giving characters like Luke Cage presence to the point that former joke characters are now fan favorites.

[Iron Maiden]

One's opinions can be whatever they are, but the reasoning expressed is illusory even if he faithfully believes it himself. He pointed out that he didn't like changes in characters that he doesn't know, read, or understand- except enough to dislike them through snapshots- which is a standard that all of his favorites (Herc, Squirrel Girl, or Deadpool) would fail if judged the same way.

I'm not sure why you need to defend an poorly supported opinion except to preserve your house.

What he is expressing is pretty much what I experienced when I read both Marvel and DC back in Marvel's early days. DC's heroes were very bland compared to a Ben Grimm who was just as likely to take a swing at Reed as he would Doom. What part about Aquaman did he get wrong? He's had the lame tag for years. Even the HBO show "Entourage" made reference to it by having Vince make the movie version. Heck, I even think it goes back to the old SNL skit with Belushi as the Hulk. You keep referring to "ignorant snapshots" but isn't that what one does when sampling a product? In the comic book world, some just Byrne-steal while others may buy a whole TPB, depending on their disposable income. If you can't grab someone's interest on the snaphot, then the product has failed for that person. That's how comics live and die since they can and have been cancelled in 6 issues, like the Exiles reboot.

[kamikage]

People need to stop saying "Well, it's my opinion" as a general defense. It's lazy, because opinions can be and often are wrong.



Opinions can not be wrong, if they were wrong they'd be called facts not opinions.

[Iron Maiden]

People need to stop saying "Well, it's my opinion" as a general defense. It's lazy, because opinions can be and often are wrong.


Looks at title of thread..... hmmmmm well one person's likes are always going to be an opinion don't you think? We are not talking about absolutes.

[pariah-1972]

pariah, I would say, especially now, that Marvel is more guilty of "let's put this character in every other book" syndrome as a habit than DC is of late. Certainly Osborn and Wolverine, but Deadpool, the Avengers, etc. are cross-over heavy. The DC's trinity is- temporarily- deconstructed with Bruce "dead", Superman gone, and Wonder Woman forced into exile without those big two... but obviously with Blackest Night, DC will force the issue with Green Lantern... and maybe Flash to a lesser extent. You're probably right that an event ago there was Trinity fatigue... but that's why they're out of the rotation right now and DC is trying to build up GL/Flash. In general, Marvel is better at giving characters like Luke Cage presence to the point that former joke characters are now fan favorites.Well Osbourne is running things so of course he is gonna be in every book but this will only be temporary for the Dark Reign crossover.
And the Trinity are in Wednesday comics even tho i was hoping they would put more spotlight on lesser known characters (tho there is Kamandi) And there was three versions of Superman/Superboy in Legion of Three Worlds which at least felt like a cross-over even if it wasn't.

[pariah-1972]

I do wanna throw my support with Mainline that i don't think Superman is over powered or limitless power especially nowadays he has at least three major weakness's and that's not even including his sanctity of preserving life which can be a bit of a handicap against violent villains.

[Iron Maiden]

I'd just also like to go on record as saying:

1. I hate Wolverine
2. Osborn is getting way too much play
3. I want a moratorium on "events" even if Joe Q doesn't think Dark Reign is an event.

Carry on...:biggrin:

[Jronnan]

The main reason that I like Marvel more than DC is that I can only handle so much supe stuff. I don't have the cash or energy to wade through two enormous universes and the look and feel of Marvel has a more modern and updated appeal to me. Marvel satisfies my supe genre needs and branching out into that area of DC just seems unecessary.

[Mainline]

What part about Aquaman did he get wrong? He's had the lame tag for years. . . . If you can't grab someone's interest on the snaphot, then the product has failed for that person.I could go on and on listing why Aquaman is, at least, a viable- if not popular- character, but that's not really the point since my critique was that he was willing to do that for his favorites and not Aquaman. The point is that it is unfair to dismiss based on a snapshot. If Deadpool was forever labeled as Liefield's rip-off of Deathstroke, he would not be the beloved character he is today. The fact people are willing to extend grace to Deadpool is not born of some inherent difference or superiority of the character but simply the house from which he came. That's the expose.

Matter-Eating Lad, frankly, sounds as stupid as Squirrel Girl... but one becomes appealing given exposure and tolerance, something he extends to one house and not the other while passing it off as inherent problems with the characters.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Opinions can not be wrong, if they were wrong they'd be called facts not opinions.

Opinion need to be supported by facts and evidence. It could be my opinion that I would die if I inhale oxygen while walking in a park, but everyone would call me out on it. Or, I could have supported McCain in the election because it was my opinion that Obama is a shady individual and probably influence by his evil Muslim upbringing. People could also list reasons for why they prefer Marvel over DC, but if those opinions have no factual basis or have flimsy support then they'll be called out.

Looks at title of thread..... hmmmmm well one person's likes are always going to be an opinion don't you think? We are not talking about absolutes.

No, but again, returning to Rurik's original post, it was such a poorly reasoned opinion that he was quickly called out on it. He could have been joking, but otherwise it wasn't a reasonable opinion.

[Puunk]

People need to stop saying "Well, it's my opinion" as a general defense. It's lazy, because opinions can be and often are wrong.

That doesn't make sense whatsoever.

Opinions can not be wrong, if they were wrong they'd be called facts not opinions.
Looks at title of thread..... hmmmmm well one person's likes are always going to be an opinion don't you think? We are not talking about absolutes.

Very well put.

[CMBMOOL]

There are some DC characters that I enjoy...Booster Gold, Some of the Batman villains, the Flash and even Batman (the Real Batman).

I mean I can understand Superman, but he just doesn't make all that much sense to me beyond his Kryptonian powers of the Sun. I just dislike Wonder Woman due to her "origins" and despite be animated Television stars; I dislike how DC is treating the Titans as of now. :frown:

WIth Marvel you can feel more grounded and see more humanity from heroes, although seeing it nowadays is a question. :frown:

Still I do enjoy a couple of Marvel titles than DC like Nova and Incredible Hercules as they showcase the much more human side of their superpowered adventures. :redface:

[Mainline]

People need to stop saying "Well, it's my opinion" as a general defense. It's lazy, because opinions can be and often are wrong.

That doesn't make sense whatsoever.

"It's my opinion that 2 + 2 = 7."
"It's my opinion that Spider-Man is invincible."
"It's my opinion that Wolverine is ethnically Asian."
"It's my opinion that all Marvel superheroes are mutants."
"It's my opinion that Superman is flawless and all-powerful."

These are all opinions one is entitled to have but are factually wrong, but ignorance and stereotypes allows the last one to get a pass in a manner akin to much more offensive stereotypes couched as "opinions".

[NickGuy]

The Odinson being the most powerful character in all of comicdom.

[Iron Maiden]

Again, this is ignorant because Superman started out in the "early days" as quite limited. Certainly, his powers grew with time and popularity (which can be said of EVERY popular Marvel character) but they were no more "limitless" as a truism than Spider-Man was "cheesy" if I were to cite the Spider-Mobile/Buggy, Amazing Friends, or punching out Firelord. All characters evolve and citing a narrow period as evocative of the character throughout all eternity is ignorant.

But if that is the period when you sampled the Superman title, then that would lead to your preferring one character or universe of characters over the others. I was too young at the time to even know what "truism" or "evocative" would have even meant!

All I know that is that back at that time, there were a lot of DC covers like this:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/176/jimmy088kryptoncrawl.jpg
While at Marvel, you had this one.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/FF39.jpg

Most people in my era got into comics when it was assumed that the readership would fall into the age range of about 7 to 12 years old and the storytelling style of the era represented by these two covers reflected that. But Marvel got the jump on DC when Stan, as hamboned as he could be, raised that bar a bit or at least enough to hook older readers and to keep them hooked with arcs that would last several issues. DC started to seem "uncool" and behind the times. I don't think they've ever really totally recovered from that.

[Mainline]

But if that is the period when you sampled the Superman title, then that would lead to your preferring one character or universe of characters over the others.Which is wholly different from saying, in absolute terms and for all time, that Superman has unlimited power... or that Spidey is cheesy for that matter.

All I know that is that back at that time, there were a lot of DC covers like thisThat's supremely unfair selection of covers (about as relevant as comparing Detective with Mary Jane Loves Spider-Man), but I get your point. If you do an objective analysis of violence, however, DC provided more bang for your buck that Marvel: http://sacomics.blogspot.com/search/label/Punches%20Landed

But Marvel got the jump on DC when Stan, as hamboned as he could be, raised that bar a bit or at least enough to hook older readers and to keep them hooked with arcs that would last several issues. DC started to seem "uncool" and behind the times. I don't think they've ever really totally recovered from that.DC surged a number of times even overtaking Marvel in market share in the early 70s (though quickly imploding afterwards) and was more or less neck and neck in the late 80s and comparable until recently (in 2008 it was basically 49% v. 33%, not exactly a blowout).

I think it's a little silly to dismiss a third of the market- much of that overlapping with Marvel's half- as buying into a universe that are somehow devoid of character or conflict... or so different from the MU when there are far more common writers, artists, and influences than differences and a relatively small market gap... based on a tiny slice decades old. The characters have moved past those periods long ago:
http://botw.org/buzz/entertainment/batman-dark-knight-artwork/

[coconutphone]

I grew up mostly on Marvel but have read a good chunk of DC books. Up until recently I had one as a monthly but cost forced me to drop a few titles and it was one. A lot of it has to do with simply growing up and knowing the characters better but there's a certain tone or feel to DC in general that just doesn't appeal to me. Hard to articulate.

[spiderwire]

1. no sidekicks
2. no wide line reboots of the whole Marvel Universe
3. characters don't wear underwear on the outside anymore
4. not every book is all "Argh" and death and destruction and emo-ness
5. better use of obscure characters
6.better cross-overs and events
7. better artists and writers (most of the time)
8. more respect for teen characters to be independent and not a sidekick to someone else.
9 better movies.
10 easier for me to keep track of their characters -universes- and aliens and books (mostly cause of said lack or wide line reboots)
11. Joe Quesada for all his faults (and they are plenty of them) is nowhere as much of a tool as Didio seems to be.

12. Marvel doesn't force feed there boring ass "trinity" into every g'damn book

13.Marvel doesn't spend years and months hyping a product for it to come out and completely fail to live up to it's expectations.
14. costumes get updated for the changing times on a regular basis.
15 there merchandise and products are much more available i go into my local dollar store and they have tons of Spider-man and Hulk junk (not comics unfortunately)
16 better use of minority characters.
17. i'm almost tempted to say less editorial interference but i don't think that's quite the case.


I guess i have run out of numbers:eek:
And just in case anyone is gonna get all trolly or upset Dc does do some good things and Marvel is nowhere near perfect.

18. Much better website

[Iron Maiden]

Which is wholly different from saying, in absolute terms and for all time, that Superman has unlimited power... or that Spidey is cheesy for that matter.

That's supremely unfair selection of covers (about as relevant as comparing Detective with Mary Jane Loves Spider-Man), but I get your point. .

Just to point out something you seem to be overlooking. Not everyone was introduced to comics in the internet age. Some of the anecdotal evidence in sampling in this thread mentions being introduced to comics from someone else's stash of comics. And yeah, I saw a lot of covers like that at an Aunt's house that even as a kid seemed corny. Marvel had a few of their own too but they really veered off into the dramatic covers a lot sooner than DC did for their entire line.

If you do an objective analysis of violence, however, DC provided more bang for your buck that Marvel: http://sacomics.blogspot.com/search/label/Punches%20Landed]

Not exactly sure why that is relevant to the thread but OK. I'd take the
classic ASM #33 story with the Master Planner over anything that DC was doing with Batman and Robin at that time though.

DC surged a number of times even overtaking Marvel in market share in the early 70s (though quickly imploding afterwards) and was more or less neck and neck in the late 80s and comparable until recently (in 2008 it was basically 49% v. 33%, not exactly a blowout).

I think it's a little silly to dismiss a third of the market- much of that overlapping with Marvel's half- as buying into a universe that are somehow devoid of character or conflict... or so different from the MU when there are far more common writers, artists, and influences than differences and a relatively small market gap... based on a tiny slice decades old. The characters have moved past those periods long ago:
http://botw.org/buzz/entertainment/batman-dark-knight-artwork/

Once again, I think you're overlooking the influence of the older generation of fans. A lot of current Marvel fans have probably been influenced by a relative from my generation of fans and we pass along the our knowledge and sometimes even an entire collection. I used to work with a fellow who got his comics that way, before trades were prevalent and you had to depend picking up the back issues. My nephews are now very much more knowledgeable about Marvel than they are about DC because their Dad is a Spider-Man fan, etc.

[Evil-Spidey]

DC always felt more over the top and the characters have so many over the top powers with god like powers that seem limitless. I mean look at Superman he has so many superpowers i have lost count and every single one of those powers is almost at the upper limit. I mean he alone has the powers of serval marvel heroes combined.

[Hulk_Is]

Well, first of all -- it started way back in my childhood. Marvel somehow ensconced the majority of my life through various means -- other than through simply their comics. That fact has given me much insight into the Marvel Universe and it's workings.

DC on the other hand failed me. I was just as interested in their characters by sight alone, but often, that was only how I knew anything whatsoever about them -- as visuals. And this was throughout my entire life! DC should have matched Marvel in the media production, but they just weren't doing it, I guess. :confused:

Down to this very day, I look for stuff to pick up by them, but largely Marvel Comics takes my money -- mostly because of sheer familiarity with the Universe most likely.

As soon as Marvel doesn't solicit a decent number of titles I'm interested in (which, sigh, probably isn't likely :redface: ), I can almost guarantee my pull list will be sated by DC titles.

I'm kinda workin' on that today, as I compile a list of October(?) titles I'll be getting, and it'd be nice to pick a number DC titles, while still maintaining a relatively low price balance.

So many titles on the market ya wanna read, but a pretty sum ya gotta pay for 'em all. :smile:

[Horizon09]

Like a lot of people on this thread, I grew up with Marvel. I started reading Spider-Man at 9, and the 90s X-Men cartoon got me hooked immediately. With both Spidey and the X-Men, I have come to also really enjoy Daredevil, Cap, The New Avengers, and Iron Man.

Marvel, imho, just has more classic runs than DC: Claremont and Byrne on Uncanny; Miller on Daredevil, Stern on Spidey; and Lee on basically everything in the 60's. Also, Quesada has brought in some legendary modern-day runs: Bendis on Daredevil and New Avengers; Brubaker on Cap and Daredevil; Straczynski on Amazing; Whedon on Astonishing X-Men; and Morrison on New X-Men.

The Marvel Universe also seems to have more conflicted, fleshed-out, and "real" characters. Also, their crossovers (from Age of Apocalypse to Dark Reign) appeal to me so much more to me. There is definitely a sense of a shared universe, in a real universe: New York City.

I've tried to get into DC, but aside from Batman (whom I think is their most "Marvel" like character, by far) I just can't get interested. Compared to Marvel, I just don't like the characters, and the stories simply fall flat.

[Bigmike]

Grew up reading both, stopped reading DC when Superman came back, stopped reading Marvel because of Onslaught.

Marvel pulled me back with The Thunderbolts / Captain America / Planet Hulk / Annihilation / Immortal Iron Fist / X-Factor / Cable & Deadpool in '06

Honestly, 2006 kicked so much ass for Marvel.

I dabble in DC stories every now and then (Blue Beetle, Sinestro Corps), but most of the heroes in the DC just don't "do it" for me.

[numberONE]

I thought I'd remind everyone that this thread isn't called "What makes you like Marvel more than DC?"

Reading through all your guys comments, I notice that a lot of you dislike Superman because he's too powerful and too perfect. Funny thing is, that's what I like about him. I like that he has go-like powers and god-like ideals. As a kid, Superman and superhero were almost interchangeable words, to me.

And I don't agree that DC uses their Trinity more than Marvel uses their big characters. When ever I look at any Marvel titles, to seems like half of them have the "Avengers" or "X-Men" attached to them. Right now, at DC, the Trinity is being used less than maybe it ever has. Superman is only in one title, right now, and although I don't follow Wonder Woman, I think it's the same with her. Granted, Batman is appearing in a ton of books, but their mostly "Bat family" books, and it's not even Bruce anyway.

18. Much better website

I couldn't agree more, although, I do like DC's new Blackest Night site (http://www.dccomics.com/sites/greenlantern/) a lot.

[Something Other]

I thought I'd remind everyone that this thread isn't called "What makes you like Marvel more than DC?"


...what? It isn't?

[Mainline]

Once again, I think you're overlooking the influence of the older generation of fans. A lot of current Marvel fans have probably been influenced by a relative from my generation of fans and we pass along the our knowledge and sometimes even an entire collection. I used to work with a fellow who got his comics that way, before trades were prevalent and you had to depend picking up the back issues. My nephews are now very much more knowledgeable about Marvel than they are about DC because their Dad is a Spider-Man fan, etc.Uh, I'm not. I'm looking directly at market data rather than anecdotal tales. It's like positing theories about the democratic party in a dyed in wool republican household or vice versa... colorful, but not particularly accurate. The market data- much like polling data- indicate a much closer race and narrow divide between the two than how you're painting it. Marvel and DC share far more in common, for example, than the Asian manga/manwha industry or independents whether north American or European. In fact, internationally (heck even domestically) many can't tell the two houses apart.

[numberONE]

...what? It isn't?

:eek:

I meant to write:

I thought I'd remind everyone that this thread isn't called "What makes Marvel better than DC?" or "What makes DC better than Marvel?", it's "What makes you like Marvel more than DC?".

I guess, I started writing the rest of my post, before I finished...my thoughts got ahead of me or something...

[Rurik]

No, but again, returning to Rurik's original post, it was such a poorly reasoned opinion that he was quickly called out on it. He could have been joking, but otherwise it wasn't a reasonable opinion.

Poorly reasoned? I fail to see how liking the older Wonder Woman with magic lasso and invisible jet over being another Superman clone is poorly reasoned. From the start I should think it was fairly obvious that personality and just flat out being fun was all I cared about. Lame powers by themselves don't bother me, Deadpool's only real super power is being able to heal. By itself that's just as lame as talking to fish, difference is, he's a fun character, Aquaman is not, Deadpool also has the benefit of not being a redneck Captain Hook with a mullet.

Superman's powers are awesome, albeit yes they're over powered, but that doesn't bug me, problem is his personality bores me to tears. He's got the same personality arche-type as Captain America, who also bores me.

The old Wonder Woman I liked because her powers always made me laugh, Superman Clone Wonder Woman does not, and there's plenty of other people with the same power set to choose from that I do like, for instance, the Captain from Nextwave, he has the same power set, flying around and punching people really hard, difference is, he's funny.

By contrast, the Flash is an example of a DC hero that I do like, at least when it's the smartass Flash. He's got a seemingly lame power, all he can do is run really fast, but it's quite devastating when you realize the fact that a punch being thrown at sonic speed is going to really hurt, and when he's written as a smartass, he's amusing.

[pariah-1972]

18. Much better websiteOh yes and better video games !

[Kasper Cole]

Two reasons:

Marvel has the sense to put recap pages in nearly all of their comics..so I can actually jump into a ongoing series and not be totatally lost. DC makes no attempt at this and seems think everyone knows 20 plus years of history in the DC universe.

Second reason is diversity, both companies try to add diversity to their universe but with Marvel it seems so much more natural and the characters don't get relegated to token/background status like they often do in DC comics.

With all that said I still read quite a bit of DC stuff, mostly the bat books, and everything Geoff Johns writes, and I was really digging Blue Beetle before it was cancelled.

[paulski]

What makes you like Marvel more than DC?

I don't. :wink:

[Parch]

I don't have a childhood history with comics, so when I decided to start I was completely brand neutral. I read a lot of Superman and a fair amount of Batman but just got bored with the titles. At the same time I couldn't get enough of Spiderman and X-books. It's hard to pinpoint exactly why but I can agree with a lot of the points already stated, especially with the character/personality comments. When I sampled a few of the convoluted DC events, that was it. I just didn't care and had zero interest in finding out more. There's still a few DC titles that I'd like to sample but for now DC is done for me, at least the superhero comics. I do like the Vertigo titles but that's a different genre.

Sales are not an opinion. They're a fact that prove Marvel is doing something right that DC isn't. It's not mass hysteria or brainwashing, it's a valid representation of the quality and appeal of Marvel titles. I think it's fair to say that a lot of the personal opinions stated in this thread are very much the mass opinion of the market.

[Mainline]

Ah... the personal anecdote as an appeal to impartial authority. How persuasive. :P
Sales are not an opinion. They're a fact that prove Marvel is doing something right that DC isn't. It's not mass hysteria or brainwashing, it's a valid representation of the quality and appeal of Marvel titles. I think it's fair to say that a lot of the personal opinions stated in this thread are very much the mass opinion of the market.Not hardly. Light beer makes up roughly half of the malt beverages sold in the USA (which is already regarded as tasteless crap internationally)... of those, about half of the market is Anheuser-Busc (which is bland and tasteless even amongst light beers). Nevermind the success of pop-artists. Market share is a poor indicator of quality or inherent appeal of Marvel titles.

This is made clear by the fact that Marvel's biggest surges have not been with respect to event books, but the release of successful films. So even if you want to claim it is an indicator of quality... apparently, Marvel books get "good" not when Marvel launches a new event but when Spider-Man, X-Men, or Iron Man come out and Marvel's stock price rises (note that Marvel HAS a public offering while DC is merely a subsidiary of the WB) and Marvel reinvests into itself.

And despite their 2009 dominance, once again, not even a year back their market shares were on the same magnitude (separated by a few points), which, if an indicator of quality- which is dubious- showed them to be more or less the same.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

By the way, doesn't DC lead the trade market?

Not that that means much besides DC has more famous collections (DKR, Year One, etc.). Sales really tell us nothing. Are they coming from people who need to have complete runs? People only buying the major events? People enjoying the stories?

[Iron Maiden]

Watchmen was selling briskly for a while now and DC also had a new edition of The Killing Joke out in time for Dark Knight last year. I think they both did pretty well.

[Iron Maiden]

Ah... the personal anecdote as an appeal to impartial authority. How persuasive. :P.

Considering the OP, it's also very relevant since it is solicting other posters reason for liking Marvel.


Not hardly. Light beer makes up roughly half of the malt beverages sold in the USA (which is already regarded as tasteless crap internationally)... of those, about half of the market is Anheuser-Busc (which is bland and tasteless even amongst light beers). Nevermind the success of pop-artists. Market share is a poor indicator of quality or inherent appeal of Marvel titles..

Again with the snobbery. They also think Jerry Lewis is a genius in France. :biggrin: Cut the thinly veiled superiority crap and you might actually have a point.


This is made clear by the fact that Marvel's biggest surges have not been with respect to event books, but the release of successful films. So even if you want to claim it is an indicator of quality... apparently, Marvel books get "good" not when Marvel launches a new event but when Spider-Man, X-Men, or Iron Man come out and Marvel's stock price rises (note that Marvel HAS a public offering while DC is merely a subsidiary of the WB) and Marvel reinvests into itself.

And despite their 2009 dominance, once again, not even a year back their market shares were on the same magnitude (separated by a few points), which, if an indicator of quality- which is dubious- showed them to be more or less the same.

Iron Man didn't rocket to the top of the sales list despite the success of the movie. The first Fantastic Four movie was actually successful at the box office (in fact more so than Watchmen, ironically enough) but it didn't boost sales of the title. The FF sales did benefit from being a part of CW.

[Mainline]

The OP doesn't enter the picture when people qualify everything they say with "It's hard to pinpoint exactly why" when the question is "What makes you like...?"

Again with the snobbery. They also think Jerry Lewis is a genius in France. :biggrin: Cut the thinly veiled superiority crap and you might actually have a point.Stop attempting to rescue flawed arguments- Miller's periodic statement which holds zero weight or accuracy today, and now this claim of market share (which, either you're defending, or purely and petulantly nitpicking for no reason) and you might actually be contributing to the substance of the thread. Seriously dude... are you just arguing with me for the sake of it? For Marvel's honor? What?
Iron Man didn't rocket to the top of the sales list despite the success of the movie. The first Fantastic Four movie was actually successful at the box office (in fact more so than Watchmen, ironically enough) but it didn't boost sales of the title. The FF sales did benefit from being a part of CW.Never said the books based on the films surged, I said the company's market share- overall- surged. It's successful marketing with backend book sales not because people want to read more of the film's character but because the film reinvigorates Marvel's relevance, triggers nostalgia, and gives Marvel the capital to do promotional pushes. That's the reason Superman Returns is seen as a commercial disappointment, because despite the respectable box office, the IP didn't take-off or make profit on the backend anywhere near expectations.

[SquidSquod]

7 pages already in just 2 days, way to go. It takes weeks for the DC counterpart to reach 7 pages.

Marvel has to keep copying DC formulas that work (such as self-contained character mini events & iconic characters marketing) while retaining the edge on their own formulas (promoting niche characters & plain ole better marketing).

[wolfblade]

I
Don’t think I have a reason for liking marvel more it was as natural as me enjoying the taste of a good cup of tea. I like DC for its mythos and heroic personalities, they are the ideal heroes seemingly without fault they are in essence what the marvel heroes strive to be.

But them striving to be that is why I like marvel more, it’s a challenge for these characters to be good and to be righteous. When wolverine decides not to kill, when he dose the right thing it gives me strength because I know he struggled to do the right thing as opposed to superman where there is only good. I like to see the inner demons of these seemingly heroic individuals, I like to see them work, to be hurt, to love and then loose. I want to see courage not bravery.

The hulk is my favorite character not because he is the strongest one there is but because he represents something I see in my self and struggle with, in a sense Marvel has made me want to be a better person because it shows me parts of myself and others deep within the core of its story’s there is always just a man struggling to do the right thing…that says something to me.

[Chris N]

Marvel has good characters and stories, while DC is teh suxxors

[Mainline]

wolfblade, that seems to be a prettier version of "Superman is flawless" which, I don't think has ever been true (SuperDickery, for example). Even if you're ignorant of the comics, look at how whiny Smallville's Clark is or how dysfunctional Superman Return's Supes is. I don't think the critique of imagined- but nonexistent- paragons of virtue holds anymore water than to say that every Marvel character is a ball of adolescent emo angst.

[SquidSquod]

Do you guys think DC Comics has more "old geezers" comic fanatics than Marvel Comics? Yeah those ones who put in memory the corny Green Lantern oath or wear costumes to comic conventions?

[striderhirryu2]

Do you guys think DC Comics has more "old geezers" comic fanatics than Marvel Comics? Yeah those ones who put in memory the corny Green Lantern oath or wear costumes to comic conventions?

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=180118

I counted 23 people dressed as DC and 10 Marvel, with a whole lotta Leia's. Mind you, they're hardly old geezers, but DC has alot more people dressing up on their end.

[wolfblade]

wolfblade, that seems to be a prettier version of "Superman is flawless" which, I don't think has ever been true (SuperDickery, for example). Even if you're ignorant of the comics, look at how whiny Smallville's Clark is or how dysfunctional Superman Return's Supes is. I don't think the critique of imagined- but nonexistent- paragons of virtue holds anymore water than to say that every Marvel character is a ball of adolescent emo angst.

You seem to be under the impression that I hate DC or something I simply stated what I felt, I have read the DC thread under the same question and I never once tried to speak down to a person for there opinion which is what I said, my opinion.

I don’t really care if superman has problems or not that’s not what I was getting at my opinion once again was only that I can identify with marvel more I see more struggle to do the right thing than in DC and there is struggle in the DC. Not I am afraid on the levels even close to Marvel.

But this is regardless considering everything I said was my opinion, so there is no need for you to even respond to what I have said unless you were so worked up over the fact I like marvel more than DC you have to defend it to the end.

I guess I can understand that you just love DC that much….so why don’t you go to the DC version of this thread and stop being a condescending snob who is trying to argue opinions.

[wolfblade]

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=180118

I counted 23 people dressed as DC and 10 Marvel, with a whole lotta Leia's. Mind you, they're hardly old geezers, but DC has alot more people dressing up on their end.

DC is far easier to cosplay as lol I can do a boat load of DC characters well but only a handfull of marvel characters if one.

[striderhirryu2]

DC is far easier to cosplay as lol I can do a boat load of DC characters well but only a handfull of marvel characters if one.

Yeah DC has that iconic thing going for them. Plus, most of these pictures are all women and DC has Supergirl and Wonder Woman while Marvel has random assorteds

[SquidSquod]

To cosplay,
Iron Man - bulky armors
Hulk - bulky muscles
Captain America - unwieldy shield

Batman - black cape, pointy zorro mask & underwear
Superman - red cape & underwear

Yeah DC is "Teh Win" for cosplaying :biggrin:

[Iron Maiden]

The OP doesn't enter the picture when people qualify everything they say with "It's hard to pinpoint exactly why" when the question is "What makes you like...?".

Who appointed you the arbiter of what a person opinions/views/anecdotes can post in the thread?


Stop attempting to rescue flawed arguments- Miller's periodic statement which holds zero weight or accuracy today, and now this claim of market share (which, either you're defending, or purely and petulantly nitpicking for no reason) and you might actually be contributing to the substance of the thread. Seriously dude... are you just arguing with me for the sake of it?

Yes I am, mostly to stick a pin into your overinflated ego and snobbery. :biggrin: What about your irrelevant references to the merits of beer brewed in the United States vs the tastes of Europeans or the Michelin star system?


Never said the books based on the films surged, I said the company's market share- overall- surged. It's successful marketing with backend book sales not because people want to read more of the film's character but because the film reinvigorates Marvel's relevance, triggers nostalgia, and gives Marvel the capital to do promotional pushes. That's the reason Superman Returns is seen as a commercial disappointment, because despite the respectable box office, the IP didn't take-off or make profit on the backend anywhere near expectations.

Again, this is irrelevant to the OP.


Market share is a poor indicator of quality or inherent appeal of Marvel titles..

When you referred to market share, it can also be construed with the same terminology that Diamond uses to rank the sales of individual titles. This is the direction I thought you were heading. What happens on Wall Street has no impact on what the comic book fan does when he visits his local shop. I doubt anyone consults the Dow, sees that Marvel is down 2 points and decides not to buy the lastest issue of Dark Avengers. You have strayed very far away from the original subject yet you scold others for doing far less. Again, who says you are in charge here?

[Damiean Dark]

Once again, I think you're overlooking the influence of the older generation of fans. A lot of current Marvel fans have probably been influenced by a relative from my generation of fans and we pass along the our knowledge and sometimes even an entire collection. I used to work with a fellow who got his comics that way, before trades were prevalent and you had to depend picking up the back issues. My nephews are now very much more knowledgeable about Marvel than they are about DC because their Dad is a Spider-Man fan, etc.

Exactly right, my older brother started collecting in the early/mid 80s Primaraly Xmen but also Spiderman and more obscure stuff like Cloak and dagger.

I was hooked especially reading the chris claremont/marc silvestri Xmen stories the ones with the brood using mutants as hosts is still some of the best comics i have ever read for art and story (anyone remember the classic Brickbat vs colossus? battle?:smile:)

DC does have some good stuff but when we talk of the original two universes not other stuff like vertigo they only really have the JLA imo and i think this is true for DC fans i would guess 98% of DC fans are fans mainly because of the JLA or one of the members therin (95% of the time it will be Batman,superman or lantern i would guess). Marvel has a better spread in daredevil,punisher,FF ect.

Marvel also has far better villains thier villains are sometimes as famous as the hero Doctor Doom has to be the best villain in comics but magneto,galactus,venom,apocalypse ect are just as good and known by any fan of the medium of comics.

All these villains actually give the heros a hard time Doom is more then capable of stalemating or beating anyone in the MU, Galactus is probably the most powerful regular character in the comics and Apocalypse and magneto regularly beat the xmen in battle.

[striderhirryu2]

To cosplay,
Iron Man - bulky armors
Hulk - bulky muscles
Captain America - unwieldy shield

Batman - black cape, pointy zorro mask & underwear
Superman - red cape & underwear

Yeah DC is "Teh Win" for cosplaying :biggrin:

I'd go postal if I had to sew Spider-Man's pattern into a shirt.

[striderhirryu2]

double post!

[striderhirryu2]

Triple post

[ShredHead]

I prefer Marvel for maney reasons but I'm going to go indepth into onething that just chased me away as a kid.

Crisis!

Back as kid I used to love piecing continuity togeather by buying back issues, trades, magazines, and handbooks and reading about my favorite character. Sure nowadays you can just wiki something and find pretty accurate information. I could always find the first apperance of Venom and Magneto's first fight with the X-Men but trying to find Batman's first fight with the Joker that was in post Crisis continuity was no go. At times it seems like every damn story didn't actaully happen and that got on my nerves I still read Batman but DC's messed up continuity shyed me away from the rest of the universe.

[raskal66]

I'm fickle. I'll go with whoever is writing the stories that I like. Since I know most of the characters in both Universes, I stick with who's entertaining me at the time. I have no loyalty other than to what I perceive to be a combination of quality writing and art. I'll ditch them both for a good indie, but I'm a consumer of story more than a follower of character or company.

[mournblade94]

wolfblade, that seems to be a prettier version of "Superman is flawless" which, I don't think has ever been true (SuperDickery, for example). Even if you're ignorant of the comics, look at how whiny Smallville's Clark is or how dysfunctional Superman Return's Supes is. I don't think the critique of imagined- but nonexistent- paragons of virtue holds anymore water than to say that every Marvel character is a ball of adolescent emo angst.

Go post on the DC thread, and stop saying people have unqualified opinions. Their opinions have been fine.

I have not seen a good 'defense' of why people should like DC more.

[coconutphone]

Seriously dude... are you just arguing with me for the sake of it?

LOL YOU are saying this? You? Could you be more argumentative in this thread. Every post explaining why someone likes Marvel better you come along and argue why they're wrong. It's bordering on obsessive and sad.

[XPac]

I think in general terms, the fact that Marvels world looks SLIGHTLY more like ours than DC's world.

And I think a lot of readers just connected with that a little better.

[wolfblade]

Go post on the DC thread, and stop saying people have unqualified opinions. Their opinions have been fine.

I have not seen a good 'defense' of why people should like DC more.

eh there opinions are pretty much in the same ball park as the marvel fans, most just have those characters they like more.

[wolfblade]

To cosplay,
Iron Man - bulky armors
Hulk - bulky muscles
Captain America - unwieldy shield

Batman - black cape, pointy zorro mask & underwear
Superman - red cape & underwear

Yeah DC is "Teh Win" for cosplaying :biggrin:

man I wish I could cosplay as the hulk, not big enough for the hulk. But too big to cosplay as Bruce Banner, man I am just going to get a green jumpsuit and a power ring.

[raskal66]

Light beer makes up roughly half of the malt beverages sold in the USA (which is already regarded as tasteless crap internationally)... of those, about half of the market is Anheuser-Busc (which is bland and tasteless even amongst light beers). Nevermind the success of pop-artists. Market share is a poor indicator of quality or inherent appeal of Marvel titles.


Not that this has much to do with Marvel or DC, but Bud Light is the best selling imported beer in the UK, at least the five times I've been there since becoming drinking age I have been told so by bartenders. If it's regarded as tasteless crap, it doesn't sell like it.

Which defines the sales argument. Sales point out numbers sold, not quality. I know many people who love Superman but don't read his book. The idea of a character in a reader's head is just as potent as the story. Everyone has what they like and dislike in heroes. I think higher sales may mean more common ground, but does not indicate quality.

New Avengers had been atop the charts for a while. I don't think it means there is an industry wide consensus that New Avengers is the best monthly book. It means it appeals to enough people to sell the most copies. To some, New Avengers is the best book, but to others it might not be a favorite, but good enough to read. Just like Bud Light may not be someone's favorite beer but to many, it's definitely good enough to drink.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Not that this has much to do with Marvel or DC, but Bud Light is the best selling imported beer in the UK, at least the five times I've been there since becoming drinking age I have been told so by bartenders. If it's regarded as tasteless crap, it doesn't sell like it.

Which defines the sales argument. Sales point out numbers sold, not quality. I know many people who love Superman but don't read his book. The idea of a character in a reader's head is just as potent as the story. Everyone has what they like and dislike in heroes. I think higher sales may mean more common ground, but does not indicate quality.

New Avengers had been atop the charts for a while. I don't think it means there is an industry wide consensus that New Avengers is the best monthly book. It means it appeals to enough people to sell the most copies. To some, New Avengers is the best book, but to others it might not be a favorite, but good enough to read. Just like Bud Light may not be someone's favorite beer but to many, it's definitely good enough to drink.

This is probably the only sensible post in the entire thread.

[Goshin]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb90/alben_01/loislane106.jpg?t=1248889786


DC has always been out of touch. as a black reader, my earliest memories of black superheros are black panther, storm, luke cage and the falcon. marvel didnt even make a big deal out of them they just kinda slid into place. dc tried to look cool by doing stupid shit like the comic u see above.


and take the fact taht in the late 70s and early 80s just a decade after the civil rights movement a black woman was leading a mostly all white superhero team

[Goshin]

it really bothered me as a kid seeing robin pole jock batman and worship him like a biblical figure.

why the hell is a rich billionaire shacking up with a teenage boy and dressing him up in green spandex and yellow briefs at night?

creepy......


on the other hand in the MU, bucky got killed off and never got replaced by another one three times, and wolverine taking kitty pryde or cannonball under his wing for a "brief" time as a surrogate father seemed much more realistic

[JohnnyC]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb90/alben_01/loislane106.jpg?t=1248889786


DC has always been out of touch. as a black reader, my earliest memories of black superheros are black panther, storm, luke cage and the falcon. marvel didnt even make a big deal out of them they just kinda slid into place. dc tried to look cool by doing stupid shit like the comic u see above.


and take the fact taht in the late 70s and early 80s just a decade after the civil rights movement a black woman was leading a mostly all white superhero team

Hard to argue with that, although Luke Cage's '70s look (open shirt, headband) always struck me as very "disco". Not saying it was racist, but it was kind of goofy for a superhero.

[Goshin]

I think in general terms, the fact that Marvels world looks SLIGHTLY more like ours than DC's world.

And I think a lot of readers just connected with that a little better.


marvel heros are based in new york, san fransisco, england, africa, etc



where the hell is metropolis or gotham city on the map? as a little kid i remember trying to find them on the map one day in school....

[Goshin]

Hard to argue with that, although Luke Cage's '70s look (open shirt, headband) always struck me as very "disco". Not saying it was racist, but it was kind of goofy for a superhero.



same with dazzler's original look. yea i always liked luke cage i used to read power man and iron fist as a kid but damn they even made fun of that awful costume during secret invasion when they fought the fake marvel skrulls in the savage land


ms marvel "luke, is that supposed to be YOU?"

lol

[Shaka]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb90/alben_01/loislane106.jpg?t=1248889786


DC has always been out of touch. as a black reader, my earliest memories of black superheros are black panther, storm, luke cage and the falcon. marvel didnt even make a big deal out of them they just kinda slid into place. dc tried to look cool by doing stupid shit like the comic u see above.


and take the fact taht in the late 70s and early 80s just a decade after the civil rights movement a black woman was leading a mostly all white superhero team

Lol even funnier considering the title comes from a porno.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I read both Marvel and DC...but I've always thought that Marvel's cast of characters had better code names and costumes.

[Shaka]

I think a big reason I'm into DC more than Marvel is luck... I grew up in the early 90s with X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Fantastic Four, and Iron Man cartoons...that had a big impact and it made the Marvel Universe much bigger. Whereas the only DC I was exposed to was Batman the Animated Series which made me really like Batman but I didn't know squat about the DC Universe until Justice League.

[Rurik]

Hard to argue with that, although Luke Cage's '70s look (open shirt, headband) always struck me as very "disco". Not saying it was racist, but it was kind of goofy for a superhero.

I actually like Luke Cage best in his 70's outfit, sure it looks goofy but, let's face it, a guy who shouts "Sweet Christmas!" is pretty goofy by default, that's what makes him fun! :biggrin:

[Goshin]

I actually like Luke Cage best in his 70's outfit, sure it looks goofy but, let's face it, a guy who shouts "Sweet Christmas!" is pretty goofy by default, that's what makes him fun! :biggrin:

luke cage is so badass he doesent need a costume, and this is a man who runs around with spiderman, captain america and wolverine on a daily basis

[Goshin]

and i remember in the early 90s DC came out with a line of crappy black superhero comics and all of them are forgotten except static shock thats onyl because he had a crappy cartoon.

marvel always integrated their black, asian, hispanic etc into the greater universe.


plus, marvel remade the x-men with superheros from japan (post WWII when whites still hated asians) and russia (during the cold war), and stan lee created a black man in a black panther costume the year malcom x got killed when the black panther party was scaring the shit outta white people and killing racist cops.





and just to piss off DC fans even more:


The New Mutants > Teen Titans

[Rurik]

Actually, Static was originally planned to be a Marvel character. I actually liked his comics, and the cartoon was fun, though not as good.

[Alan2099]

luke cage is so badass he doesent need a costume,

You misspelled "horribly written". there's no B, A,D, or S in it.

[Goshin]

i used to hate the sentry for being marvel's superman knock off, until i realized that he was a twisted nutcase who was FAR from perfect hahahaha

dude walks around with a sad puppy dog face bein a little too eager to please people and throws shit into the sun and out into orbit

[Goshin]

You misspelled "horribly written". there's no B, A,D, or S in it.

luke cage is still a better hero than.......... umm........


i cant name any black superheros besides the black vulcan :biggrin:

[Rurik]

From DC, Green Lantern (John Stewart) and Cyborg come immediately to mind, for Marvel the Falcon, Black Panther, and Storm.

[Goshin]

From DC, Green Lantern (John Stewart) and Cyborg come immediately to mind, for Marvel the Falcon, Black Panther, and Storm.



carbon copies of white superheros (war machine, black green lantern) dont count

and cyborg is a lame ass character anyway. his name is cyborg they couldnt come up with a better name for him lol thats like calling the vision "robot" or wolverine "claw-man"

[Shaka]

carbon copies of white superheros (war machine, black green lantern) dont count

and cyborg is a lame ass character anyway. his name is cyborg they couldnt come up with a better name for him lol thats like calling the vision "robot" or wolverine "claw-man"

Yikes I think you're being a little harsh on John Stewart and Rhodey...they definitely have enough personality to be more than carbon copies.

[Rurik]

carbon copies of white superheros (war machine, black green lantern) dont count

and cyborg is a lame ass character anyway. his name is cyborg they couldnt come up with a better name for him lol thats like calling the vision "robot" or wolverine "claw-man"

Yes, because Spider-Man, Storm, Black Panther, Iceman, Invisible Girl/Woman, the Thing, Iron Man, and Giant Man are all much more creative than Cyborg. (Sarcasm)

[numberONE]

What about Steel? He's black.

I
Don’t think I have a reason for liking marvel more it was as natural as me enjoying the taste of a good cup of tea. I like DC for its mythos and heroic personalities, they are the ideal heroes seemingly without fault they are in essence what the marvel heroes strive to be.

But them striving to be that is why I like marvel more, it’s a challenge for these characters to be good and to be righteous. When wolverine decides not to kill, when he dose the right thing it gives me strength because I know he struggled to do the right thing as opposed to superman where there is only good. I like to see the inner demons of these seemingly heroic individuals, I like to see them work, to be hurt, to love and then loose. I want to see courage not bravery.

The hulk is my favorite character not because he is the strongest one there is but because he represents something I see in my self and struggle with, in a sense Marvel has made me want to be a better person because it shows me parts of myself and others deep within the core of its story’s there is always just a man struggling to do the right thing…that says something to me.

Batman's sort of like that...

Exactly right, my older brother started collecting in the early/mid 80s Primaraly Xmen but also Spiderman and more obscure stuff like Cloak and dagger.

I was hooked especially reading the chris claremont/marc silvestri Xmen stories the ones with the brood using mutants as hosts is still some of the best comics i have ever read for art and story (anyone remember the classic Brickbat vs colossus? battle?:smile:)

DC does have some good stuff but when we talk of the original two universes not other stuff like vertigo they only really have the JLA imo and i think this is true for DC fans i would guess 98% of DC fans are fans mainly because of the JLA or one of the members therin (95% of the time it will be Batman,superman or lantern i would guess). Marvel has a better spread in daredevil,punisher,FF ect.

Marvel also has far better villains thier villains are sometimes as famous as the hero Doctor Doom has to be the best villain in comics but magneto,galactus,venom,apocalypse ect are just as good and known by any fan of the medium of comics.

All these villains actually give the heros a hard time Doom is more then capable of stalemating or beating anyone in the MU, Galactus is probably the most powerful regular character in the comics and Apocalypse and magneto regularly beat the xmen in battle.

I'd say Joker is more well-known.

I think a big reason I'm into DC more than Marvel is luck... I grew up in the early 90s with X-Men, Spider-Man, Hulk, Fantastic Four, and Iron Man cartoons...that had a big impact and it made the Marvel Universe much bigger. Whereas the only DC I was exposed to was Batman the Animated Series which made me really like Batman but I didn't know squat about the DC Universe until Justice League.

That's probably what DC trying to do with the new Batman show - introduce children to characters from all around the DC Universe.

[wolfblade]

What about Steel? He's black.



Batman's sort of like that...



I'd say Joker is more well-known.



That's probably what DC trying to do with the new Batman show - introduce children to characters from all around the DC Universe.


damn strait I am a batman fan to the end the Joker has always been my fav. villian.

[Ikonic]

What makes me like Marvel more than DC? Two things:

War Machine making it to movie status and a positive character like Blue Marvel being introduced.

[CrimsonComedian]

DC characters have no personality and are incredibly bland and one dimensional. Also there isn't that diversity in character that Marvel sports. Just a bunch of overpowered super duper heroes.

[wolfblade]

well balanced teams aww a need for every meber too do a specific job.

[RyleKayner]

I'm only just getting into Marvel, but so far it has two things going for it:

1. Some of my favourite writers seem to live here (DnA, Brubaker, PAD)

2. It doesn't have Blackest Night which promises to be another Silver Age w@nkfest.

On the downside,

1. Marvel doesn't have Morrison/Quitely.

2. Marvel has Jeph Loeb.

[goblin9]

luke cage is still a better hero than.......... umm........


i cant name any black superheros besides the black vulcan :biggrin:

Mr. Terrific

[Damiean Dark]

Mr. Terrific

Terrific is a really good DC character one of the few (the only imo) good minority characters who doesnt seem like a token insertion.

[Skeets]

Marvel characters have no personality and are incredibly bland and one dimensional. Also there isn't that diversity in character that DC sports. Just a bunch of overpowered super duper heroes.

[pariah-1972]

Marvel characters have no personality and are incredibly bland and one dimensional. Also there isn't that diversity in character that DC sports. Just a bunch of overpowered super duper heroes.You must have your wires crossed cause that last part sounds exactly like Dc.

[Lemurion]

i just feel like the characters have a lot more personality over at marvel. also more lighthearted

You must be reading different Marvel books than I am, because lightheartedness is one thing I'm not seeing. Daredevil and Iron Man are in the middle of incredibly depressing arcs.

As for personality, some Marvel characters have more personality for me, while in other cases it's DC.

[Marveluted]

I recently made the effort to check out DC in more detail after reading mostly Marvel and indie books for most of my life. There's this feeling you get when you try and break into DC Comics that you don't get when reading Marvel. It's the feeling of, "Holy shit! I have no idea what's going on!"

The recap page is a BIG DEAL. DC not having them means that I'm never going to pick up a book that's not an issue 1, period. DC plays heavily against its Silver Age history, which I'm not familiar with. This makes Blackest Night totally pointless for me.

I really had to go back and read a lot of stuff to catch up on certain things. For instance, I picked up Green Lantern Rebirth and then went through the entire series along with Corps. Great Geoff Johns writing, but it would saved me a lot of time if I could have just read a primer. I'm not playing roulette with my comic buying money, so I 'm not going to take a chance on things that don't provide a recap.

That said, I've been enjoying Secret Six (got in on issue 1) and Morrison's Batman and Robin (also got in on number 1).

My other complaint about DC. I don't give a shit about character families, or at least not the derivative characters of main ones. Superman, Batman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, friggin Hawkman, all have their -boy, -kid, -girl, -lad, -woman derivatives. It dillutes the pool.

Marvel does the character derivatives far less. In fact, when Marvel has used derivatives lately it hasn't been well received or really required an uphill battle to win over the fans (think Red Hulk, Savage She-Hulk, Daken, and X23). Additionally, the Marvel U isn't organized into retarded Legions and Societies of every superhero ever. Really? If every superhero is in a friggin legion together how the hell is Gotham always overrun with crime??

The overuse of fake cities in DC also kills it for me. Coast City, Gotham, Metropolis... you lost me. I know it's all fantasy, but I have nothing to relate it to and I rather follow something based on real city frame of reference. Not knocking the development of these cities, but it really takes me out of the story since I don't have as much stake in Coast City as I would in, say, Sacramento.

Quality of writing and characters aside, I think what it boils down to is that Marvel really goes out of its way to make books accessible to new readers and DC just doesn't. The big issue for me is the recaps. If DC had recap pages, I might try more titles and get over my other DC hang-ups. It just feels like you can't fully grasp the entirety of the DCU without going back 30+ years in reading (I know people say to ignore continuity all the time, but it's really jarring not to feel grounded in the basic premises and events of the universe, which aren't being recapped in the weeklies).

[Iron Maiden]

I have to agree the recap pages help a lot if I've been skipping a Marvel title for a while. Another thing that Marvel does, which is really amazing IMO, is that they sometimes will put out a one shot that will give you the whole backstory on something in text. They did this with Secret Invasion and War of Kings for example. Frequently, those have been free of charge at the comic shops.

[Goshin]

why is marvel better?


Claremont's 15 year x-men run

Frank Miller's Daredevil, Wolverine and Spiderman

Iron Man any decade

the only kick ass DC thing i remember as a kid id the 60s batman tv shot and the first 2 movies

[Daniel Mengsk]

Where's my no prize?

It's nowhere to be found pariah. :wink:

I love your list (I agree with most of it), can you make a part 2?

[Ball Buster]

Superman sucks. nuff said.

[wolfblade]

Marvel characters have no personality and are incredibly bland and one dimensional. Also there isn't that diversity in character that DC sports. Just a bunch of overpowered super duper heroes.

everything you said but switch the companys around:biggrin:

[Goshin]

Superman sucks. nuff said.


i have always believed that thor would kick superman's ass.


nothing would please me more than seeing thor smack supes with the hammer and send him flying out into orbit

[numberONE]

The recap page is a BIG DEAL. DC not having them means that I'm never going to pick up a book that's not an issue 1, period. DC plays heavily against its Silver Age history, which I'm not familiar with. This makes Blackest Night totally pointless for me.

I really had to go back and read a lot of stuff to catch up on certain things. For instance, I picked up Green Lantern Rebirth and then went through the entire series along with Corps. Great Geoff Johns writing, but it would saved me a lot of time if I could have just read a primer. I'm not playing roulette with my comic buying money, so I 'm not going to take a chance on things that don't provide a recap.


Out of all the writers I've read at DC, I'd say Geoff Johns is the most accessible for new readers. He did a nice job with Blackest Night #0.

I'm glad your enjoying Batman and Robin. It's great so far, eh?

[Marveluted]

Out of all the writers I've read at DC, I'd say Geoff Johns is the most accessible for new readers. He did a nice job with Blackest Night #0.

I'm glad your enjoying Batman and Robin. It's great so far, eh?

Yes, it is! The new Batman makes for a really interesting read, and the dynamic between him and Damian is extremely entertaining.

Oops! I'm not supposed to say anything good about DC in a Marvel thread... er... Squirrel Girl can kick Superman's ass! (that should cover my bases nicely)

[Bat_Fan2232]

I dont.

I pull hardly anything from marvel and its always been that way.The only thing ive read from marvel in the last three years for any amount of time has been Old Man Logan and Im dying to find Iron Man Viva Las Vegas. And anything Loeb does always perks my interest but in my mind he belongs on batman. Mark Millar is a freaking genius in my mind so i pick up anything he touches. Maybe i enjoy marvel more than i think

But maybe its just me and the time i started reading comics. I was interested in spiderman and picked it up during the whole One last day and it blew my mind. Civil war was alright but messiah and everything thats followed ive hated.

I enjoy dc but i love Batman so i am a bit biased but marvel just doesnt seem to have that bad ass who has no super powers. Marvels full of the bitten by spiders and gamma gone bad.

But i have nothing against marvel just doesnt interest me. Also the recent price hike without adding pages has me feeling like im getting my moneys worth with DC books

[Rurik]

Marvel has a few characters who aren't exactly super powered, like Nick Fury. (Unless you consider his ability to change between being a black guy and a white guy a power)

[Bat_Fan2232]

Marvel has a few characters who aren't exactly super powered, like Nick Fury. (Unless you consider his ability to change between being a black guy and a white guy a power)


I think your right about having a few non powered super heros but correct me if im wrong it doesnt seem like marvel puts a big focus on these characters

[XPac]

I enjoy dc but i love Batman so i am a bit biased but marvel just doesnt seem to have that bad ass who has no super powers. Marvels full of the bitten by spiders and gamma gone bad.



There are a few powerless bad @$$'s in marvel, though arguably none are really on Batman's level.

Punisher is the clearest example. Moon Knight and Black Panther pretty much powerless, though there's a mystical side to them. Daredevil is mostly powerless... but he does have radar.

Cap technically doesn't have powers either.

[Rurik]

I think your right about having a few non powered super heros but correct me if im wrong it doesnt seem like marvel puts a big focus on these characters

Nick Fury and Punisher are both pretty big players in the Marvel universe, Nick Fury has had a movie of his own, and appeared in Iron Man, he's also shown up in a lot of the different Marvel cartoons over the years. Iron Man and War Machine are both technically powerless too, Iron Man is just like Batman, a rich guy with fancy toys, and War Machine is the friend of a rich guy with fancy toys.

Come to think of it, he's even an orphan like Bruce Wayne I think. They'd probably get along really well, except for the whole Iron Man turning into a villain thing.

[CMBMOOL]

To me Marvel is more down to Earth, with the exceptions of their cosmic titles.

Where DC plays into Fantasy, Marvel shows a glimpse at reality. :redface:

[Mainline]

Not that this has much to do with Marvel or DC, but Bud Light is the best selling imported beer in the UK,Sorry, I have to respond to this, but you're citing the UK with respect to TASTE! In terms of western tastes, I honestly can't think of another nation with a lower reputation. Even the British admit their taste is horrible with much of their food-related TV programming oriented on REFORM (rather than worship, like American food TV).

That said, the rest of your post is fine. My issue is essentially this:

I think higher sales may mean more common ground, but does not indicate quality.With the sales as close as they are, the level of overlap is practically all-inclusive (with the gap almost entirely explained by marketing), but people are attempting to distinguish based on things claimed as inherent or persistent to one house or the other, when it's really just based on ignorance or bias. I'd say the same thing of a DC fan who tried to argue the appeal of the DCU is clean and noble when the books are anything but. The two houses are practically the same product and if one can admit branding is the reason, good on them.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

I have to agree the recap pages help a lot if I've been skipping a Marvel title for a while. Another thing that Marvel does, which is really amazing IMO, is that they sometimes will put out a one shot that will give you the whole backstory on something in text. They did this with Secret Invasion and War of Kings for example. Frequently, those have been free of charge at the comic shops.

Definitely gotta agree with this. I love that Marvel actively tries to court new readers. DC isn't really that hard to get into, but they sure make it seem like it.

[Scott Taylor]

Marvel has a stronger cosmoverse, imho.

[Hulk_Is]

I recently made the effort to check out DC in more detail after reading mostly Marvel and indie books for most of my life. There's this feeling you get when you try and break into DC Comics that you don't get when reading Marvel. It's the feeling of, "Holy shit! I have no idea what's going on!"

The recap page is a BIG DEAL. DC not having them means that I'm never going to pick up a book that's not an issue 1, period. DC plays heavily against its Silver Age history, which I'm not familiar with. This makes Blackest Night totally pointless for me.

I really had to go back and read a lot of stuff to catch up on certain things. For instance, I picked up Green Lantern Rebirth and then went through the entire series along with Corps. Great Geoff Johns writing, but it would saved me a lot of time if I could have just read a primer. I'm not playing roulette with my comic buying money, so I 'm not going to take a chance on things that don't provide a recap.

That said, I've been enjoying Secret Six (got in on issue 1) and Morrison's Batman and Robin (also got in on number 1).

My other complaint about DC. I don't give a shit about character families, or at least not the derivative characters of main ones. Superman, Batman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern, friggin Hawkman, all have their -boy, -kid, -girl, -lad, -woman derivatives. It dillutes the pool.

Marvel does the character derivatives far less. In fact, when Marvel has used derivatives lately it hasn't been well received or really required an uphill battle to win over the fans (think Red Hulk, Savage She-Hulk, Daken, and X23). Additionally, the Marvel U isn't organized into retarded Legions and Societies of every superhero ever. Really? If every superhero is in a friggin legion together how the hell is Gotham always overrun with crime??

The overuse of fake cities in DC also kills it for me. Coast City, Gotham, Metropolis... you lost me. I know it's all fantasy, but I have nothing to relate it to and I rather follow something based on real city frame of reference. Not knocking the development of these cities, but it really takes me out of the story since I don't have as much stake in Coast City as I would in, say, Sacramento.

Quality of writing and characters aside, I think what it boils down to is that Marvel really goes out of its way to make books accessible to new readers and DC just doesn't. The big issue for me is the recaps. If DC had recap pages, I might try more titles and get over my other DC hang-ups. It just feels like you can't fully grasp the entirety of the DCU without going back 30+ years in reading (I know people say to ignore continuity all the time, but it's really jarring not to feel grounded in the basic premises and events of the universe, which aren't being recapped in the weeklies).

Thoughtful post.

[Mainline]

Thoughtful post.Mostly, but a couple of patent falsehoods.

The recap page is a BIG DEAL.They're relatively recent, not across the board at Marvel, not exclusive to Marvel, and controversial when substantive page count is dropping and prices are going up. To many, it's more like filler you pay for (a handful of creators refuse to do them) than something that provides accessibility, particularly in the internet age when plot summaries, reviews, and previews are readily accessible and indexed, not to mention backed up by countless communities ready to fill-in the gaps and provide impressions at the drop of a hat. If you are lost in either of the Big Two, there's really no one to blame but your own lack of interest... rather than the lack of a recap which, more times than not are played for laughs or a writer's opportunity to flex rather than an actual substantive summary.

Marvel does the character derivatives far less.This is not true, period. Hell, Marvel has She-Venom (a derivative of a derivative... nevermind Carnage and Anti-Venom). Not to mention, literally, an entire line/universe of derivative works. The contrast, if any, is that the DC ones tend to be better known and elevated to a place of relevance rather than poorly conceived one-off characters (who make inevitable returns despite their creators' original abortive intentions).

Additionally, the Marvel U isn't organized into retarded Legions and Societies of every superhero ever. Really? If every superhero is in a friggin legion together how the hell is Gotham always overrun with crime??This criticism is far from well thought out considering the lack of basis in the DCU and Marvel's analogs in the extremely deep Avengers roster and every flavor of X-Team... and the Gotham criticism is "retarded" with the simple retort of "Marvel NYC" even pre-50 State Initiative or "All But Martial Law" H.A.M.M.E.R. (nevermind Illuminati or Hood). This isn't a legitimate criticism, it's just rationalized fan bias.

it really takes me out of the story since I don't have as much stake in Coast City as I would in, say, Sacramento.As a former NYC resident, I can say that more times than not, I'm taken out of the story BECAUSE it's implausible on the real location, not enhanced because of it. The overhead train sequence in Spidey 2? It's been decommissioned for decades and recently turned into a city garden/park. There's only so many times I can see the Flatiron Building before wondering why S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't have a post there 24/7. The nods to NYC culture make me like Marvel as a fellow New Yorker, but not its immersion which takes a pretty huge dose of suspended disbelief to accept... one that would more than swallow DC city issues (when, for all intents and purposes, Marvel U is just as fictitious). Heck, you have to buy that Obama is signing off on Dark Reign. A hurdle that doesn't exist for the DCU.

Marvel really goes out of its way to make books accessible to new readers and DC just doesn't.The continual reboots (origins, universes, or otherwise) and secret origin character recaps (available freely online) beg to differ. Even if you think the tactic fails, it's an absurd comment to make... that DC- a business- ISN'T trying to capture readership. If anything, Marvel- who's business model is centered around its Studio and licensing dept.- can afford to take art-house risks rather than worry about accessibility.

In reality, it all boils down to this:

After reading mostly Marvel . . . for most of my life. "Holy shit! I have no idea what's going on!"And this is being blamed on the house rather than a lifetime of investment in another house.

[DasPoppen]

Marvel has the X-Men.

[Rurik]

As a former NYC resident, I can say that more times than not, I'm taken out of the story BECAUSE it's implausible on the real location, not enhanced because of it. The overhead train sequence in Spidey 2? It's been decommissioned for decades and recently turned into a city garden/park. There's only so many times I can see the Flatiron Building before wondering why S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't have a post there 24/7. The nods to NYC culture make me like Marvel as a fellow New Yorker, but not its immersion which takes a pretty huge dose of suspended disbelief to accept... one that would more than swallow DC city issues (when, for all intents and purposes, Marvel U is just as fictitious). Heck, you have to buy that Obama is signing off on Dark Reign. A hurdle that doesn't exist for the DCU.

I feel the need to point out we're talking about Marvel and DC comics, not movies. Comic book movies universally suck, I don't care if it's Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, or anything inbetween, at least the live action Hollywood blockbuster ones. The animated straight to DVD releases aren't too bad, I actually quite enjoyed that one from DC a while back, can't remember the name, but it was based on the Justice League and set back in the 50's or something, and the Next Avengers was also a good one.

I suspect this is largely due to the fact of course, that the Hollywood movies are only out to sell tickets, they're targeted at the general public who have little to no knowledge of the characters. The straight to DVD animated movies however, are pretty much targeted exclusively at the real fans of the characters, such as Hulk Vs. Which was nothing but Hulk fanservice.

[J592]

There's stuff in DC I really like, each major hero getting their own 'city' for example works better for me than the overcrowding of New York by Marvel. When a supervillain is destroying NY en mass in one book it's hard to believe another hero decides to stay home and drink tea.

DC heroes get stuck in society's collective brain because they don't change, not their basic costume, their name or their mission. That's both good and bad, they're easily recognisable but their books are hard to get in to. I'm really enjoying Batman so I decided to pick up Batwoman unfortunately it only makes sense if you already know all about the character, relying solely on the book I wouldn't even know her civilian name. DC has a rich history but they don't make it easy to catch up.

Marvel heroes change, they grow up, yes the reset button get smacked every once and a while and sets the character back to their default setting but they feel less set in stone then DC characters. Most Marvel heroes aren't naturally heroes being heroic is something they strive for and sometimes fail. I find it's easier to relate to characters like that.

[thecrimson]

Before posting, I decided to read several pages of this forum, just to get the lay of the land. There are a few reasons why I like Marvel better than DC (and these are my own personal opinions, none of which are illusory).
1.)Crisis turned me off from DC.
2.)The Silver Age and Golden Age confused me.
3.)Everybody put the whoop-down on Superboy Prime (or Superman Prime, can't remember), when he was getting revenge, which was because he protected their own Earth from being destroyed and some of the heroes turned bad-ass and corrupt.
4.)Also, Power Girl almost burned his private part off.
5.)I'm actually okay with the Batman series, but after Bruce died I was too turned off to continue. I'm not saying Marvel is perfect, because I think the X-Men comics are screwed up. I'm done and I bet $10 that mainline is going to come over and destroy my opinions with his/her large vocabulary. :biggrin:

P.S. I've been thinking about writing a comic with a motto: Putting the hero back in superhero.
P.P.S. Before you start blaiming my lack of interest in DC because I'm lazy or I'm a weirdo or because I'm socially inept, it's hard to buy DC comics when I barely get an allowance.
P.P.P.S. And yes, I have gone online to research and make sense of DC. I was even more confused when they started talking about a floating timeline. The three Robins make my head hurt, Wonder Woman's retcon almost blew my mind, and an actual comic theorist/hater-of-other-people's-opinion made me throw up.
P.P.P.P.S. I actually like the Green Lantern comics and feel free to enlighten me on the entire history of the DC Universe starting from the beginning.

That should cover any possible loopholes, unless you want to say I don't like DC because I wear white socks and my income is nonexistant and I'm a highschool student.

[thecrimson]

Before posting, I decided to read several pages of this forum, just to get the lay of the land. There are a few reasons why I like Marvel better than DC (and these are my own personal opinions). 1.)Crisis turned me off from DC. 2.)The Silver Age and Golden Age confused me. 3.)Everybody put the whoop-down on Superboy Prime (or Superman Prime, can't remember), when he was getting revenge, which was because he protected their own Earth from being destroyed and some of the heroes turned bad-ass and corrupt. 4.)Also, Power Girl almost burned his private part off. 5.)I'm actually okay with the Batman series, but after Bruce died I was too turned off to continue. I'm not saying Marvel is perfect, because I think the X-Men comics are screwed up. I'm done and I bet $10 that mainline is going to come over and destroy my opinions with his/her large vocabulary. :biggrin:
P.S. I've been thinking about writing a comic with a motto: Putting the hero back in superhero.

[thecrimson]

Before posting, I decided to read several pages of this forum, just to get the lay of the land. There are a few reasons why I like Marvel better than DC (and these are my own personal opinions).
1.)Crisis turned me off from DC.
2.)The Silver Age and Golden Age confused me.
3.)Everybody put the whoop-down on Superboy Prime (or Superman Prime, can't remember), when he was getting revenge, which was because he protected their own Earth from being destroyed and some of the heroes turned bad-ass and corrupt.
4.)Also, Power Girl almost burned his private part off.
5.)I'm actually okay with the Batman series, but after Bruce died I was too turned off to continue.
I'm not saying Marvel is perfect, because I think the X-Men comics are screwed up. I'm done and I bet $10 that mainline is going to come over and destroy my opinions with his/her large vocabulary. :biggrin:
P.S. I've been thinking about writing a comic with a motto: Putting the hero back in superhero.

[thecrimson]

I could go on and on listing why Aquaman is, at least, a viable- if not popular- character, but that's not really the point since my critique was that he was willing to do that for his favorites and not Aquaman. The point is that it is unfair to dismiss based on a snapshot. If Deadpool was forever labeled as Liefield's rip-off of Deathstroke, he would not be the beloved character he is today. The fact people are willing to extend grace to Deadpool is not born of some inherent difference or superiority of the character but simply the house from which he came. That's the expose.

Matter-Eating Lad, frankly, sounds as stupid as Squirrel Girl... but one becomes appealing given exposure and tolerance, something he extends to one house and not the other while passing it off as inherent problems with the characters.

Actually I love Deadpool because he's a rip-off of Deathstroke. Slade is awesome to a point. So you cant' call me out on that I'll list why I think Slade is cool. For one, he wears a mask and I see that as being mysterious and cool. If you've watched the Teen Titans cartoon show, you'd see how well he was at controlling people and getting what he wants. And then there's the episode where he survived against Trigon because he had this flaming ax-like weapon he took from a sentinel. Squirrel Girl is a stupid name, but I might think it's funny and thus like the character.:biggrin:
P.S. I hope your "month" is almost up.

[AllisterH]

Mainline, how come you aren't in the DC board correcting all the wrong things the posters are saying there?

[raskal66]

Sorry, I have to respond to this, but you're citing the UK with respect to TASTE! In terms of western tastes, I honestly can't think of another nation with a lower reputation. Even the British admit their taste is horrible with much of their food-related TV programming oriented on REFORM (rather than worship, like American food TV).

With all due respect, taste is subjective. With regard to what is western culture, essentially, there is the US, the UK, and everybody else. Not many nations have exportable or viewable cultures to even be judged. Who else would I look to besides the U.K. for an apt comparison? Canada? Their opinions and beer are to be more trusted because they never offend anybody and invented hockey? Sweden? France? Spain? Do stagnant economies indicate a level of sophistication I haven't tuned in to? (Bud Light is also quite popular in France and Switzerland) I don't think there's any difference in taste to be found in Leos Carax movies than there is in Michael Bay. Both are vulgar in their respective ways. Which nation is the champion of good taste and sets the standard for you? While I don't believe that either nation is infallible, I tend to have more faith in the US and the UK by light years above the entire rest of the world. Why? Same language, similar cultures make them comparable. I don't think Afghanistan would be the place to ask about world brewery analysis and pop culture. I wouldn't ask France how to improve employment. Maybe I'm some kind of simpleton, but broad general internationalism I think inspires mediocrity more than achievement. The world tolerates bad taste much more than you appear to give it credit for. When women get stoned to death in the middle east for looking at a man who's not their husband, I don't see "the world" getting too upset about that tastelessness. I'm not envious of the rest of the world for anything and I can't think of a single thing when it comes to products that Americans don't do equally as well or better when they put their mind to it, but that's my opinion. My beer doesn't have to be bitter in order for me to say it's good. I can't remeber the last big Bulgarian breakthrough that had me ready to pack my bags and move.

I do agree with your statement that the two houses are essentially the same product, and that preference for one or the other is based opinions rather than facts. Trying to tie those opinions into fact based conclusions is fruitless but it's always fun to see why people do make their choices. To some those reasons are found in nostalgia (I always have read X or Y) or they can relate to one groups characters more.The characters are the distinguishing part of each company but over time, the stories do share many thematic similarities.

Personally, I've read Marvel for far longer so there is more sentimental attachment, but I'll drop them in a second if I perceive better writing or better value for my money elsewhere. I've dropped many a Marvel title because when the price change came around, I didn't get anything extra. I'll read just about anything Brubaker and Millar write. I've also been enjoying Geoff Johns and Gail Simone more than Bendis lately, so I dropped New Avengers and Dark Avengers and picked up Green Lantern, Secret Six and Wonder Woman. I perceive more value and, at presnt, a better story for the same money from those titles. Not everyone will agree with me or those choices, and I'm glad for it because the opinion diversity is what I find so rewarding in a hobby as wide and vast with opinions as this one. I enjoy both houses, but have loyalty to neither. Whoever is entertaining me more is getting my money. I may have grown up Avengers, but I'll leave them for the Justice League and not think twice about it if I am more entertained by them at any given moment of time. I change books when creative teams I like leave them. I drop books that go up in price without any additional content. Both houses annoy me to no end with the size of the event checklists and miniseries that only marginally impact the big picture if at all. Money that would be spent on frivolities like any of the Dark Reign mini-series or the Final Crisis Aftermaths goes to indies because neither event is so gripping that I have to see how it affects characters outside of their main books. I figure if something is important to their stories it'll be in the title books and not some mini-series. Give me a choice between a Marvel or DC event spinioff miniseries, and my answer is I'll spend that on an Image title like Proof where the story you read is the main story and not some inconsequential tangent. If someone kills Hawkeye (er. Bullseye) in the main Marvel U, it's going to be done in a character's main title, not the Dark Reign: Funerals mini-series or One Shot.

I like comics and discussions about them. I like characters, and stories. I don't really care for publishers, executives, marketing departments, and all the other stuff. I see money grabs masquerading as comics by any party who does insginificant spinoffs of a brand or event. Both do it and both are wrong for it. I despise checklists full of stuff that looks important when it's not.

I like Marvel, DC, Image, Ford, the NFL, Beef, Pizza with Jalepenos on it, and Miller Lite. When I travel abroad, I tell others about those things and why they are awesome to me. I try their items and their ideas and their food and remain open to their experience. I'm open to liking any and everything but I don't think that mine is any less tasteful because it's American and I don't think Spider Man is any more or any less of a hero than Superman.

[Marveluted]

On Recaps: If you are lost in either of the Big Two, there's really no one to blame but your own lack of interest... rather than the lack of a recap which, more times than not are played for laughs or a writer's opportunity to flex rather than an actual substantive summary.

That's a pretty bold statement. As someone that is not a millionaire, my interest is often dictated by my disposable income. This means that I'm not going to take a chance on something new if I think I'm going to be lost picking up the middle of a story arc. Recaps aid point-of-purchase sales of books. I'm not going online to research a book's back story while in the store. If I see a comic that looks appealing, skim the first page in the store and realize I'm completely lost, I'm not going to buy it. That simple. Recaps would influence my point-of-purchase buying behavior in favor of actually picking up new titles.

On accessibility: The continual reboots (origins, universes, or otherwise) and secret origin character recaps (available freely online) beg to differ. Even if you think the tactic fails, it's an absurd comment to make... that DC- a business- ISN'T trying to capture readership. If anything, Marvel- who's business model is centered around its Studio and licensing dept.- can afford to take art-house risks rather than worry about accessibility.

Simple fact, DC is not doing a very good job of trying to capture new readership at the point-of-purchase. Origins books are a good jumping on point, but every Wednesday new comics come out, and the old ones are pushed to the back bins. If you missed a recap point -- first issue of a Rebirth series, start of a reboot, etc. -- you really can't catch up. Asking casual users to read Wikipedia for anything they missed is poor marketing. That's trying to generate a change of behavior among your key audience without a motivation.

Offering Secret Origins as backup and for free online is a good thing. But is also shows that DC believes new readers are already invested in the DC stories. This fails to capture the casual reader. Including recaps would make DC books more accessible to new readers because they provide a consistent way for users to jump into any title. Also, it means that each Wednesday readers can go to their local comics store and be presented with a jumping on point for any title, regardless of if a Rebirth title or #1 issue is on the racks. Having multiple methods in which a new user can jump on and catch up just makes good business sense.


In reality, it all boils down to this:

And this is being blamed on the house rather than a lifetime of investment in another house.

Reading comics is entertainment, not an investment. I would love to read more DC titles, but they feel inaccessible to me based on a lack of jumping on opportunities. I don't blame the house, but I don't feel that my time invested in another company's books should mean that I'm kept from grasping the full picture of a DC book. Comics should be fun, and doing deep research into the Martian Manhunter's back story to understand his role in a story isn't fun for me. That's a price of admission, one that I'm not willing to pay if an equally well written but more accessible story is presented to me on the racks.

[numberONE]

I actually like the Green Lantern comics and feel free to enlighten me on the entire history of the DC Universe starting from the beginning.


The Unauthorized Chronology of the DC Universe (http://dcu.smartmemes.com/).

[thecrimson]

The Unauthorized Chronology of the DC Universe (http://dcu.smartmemes.com/).

...my brain feels like it's about to explode! History of the DC Universe is certainlly more complicated than Marvel or anything else I have ever seen. It also seems that the author of the website is also fustrated with the events of Infinite Crisis and 52.
P.S. Just to make this post thread-oriented--that's why I like Marvel, it's not complicated to me.

[Ikonic]

What makes me like Marvel more than DC?...The fact that Marvel makes their black characters matter.

[FlyingFox]

The reasons I like Marvel more than DC:

More than three characters matter
Marvel doesn't put out yearly retcons and origin stories
Less lite versions of characters (supergirl, kidflash, wondergirl etc.)
Less characters dieing off and being replaced by newbies
Less goofiness
Marvel's characters have more personality
Marvel has never produced an event as bad as Final Crisis

[ijffdrie]

Marvel has never produced an event as bad as Final Crisis

ultimatum


yeah, i went there

[Gitaroo_Dude]

The reasons I like Marvel more than DC:

More than three characters matter
Marvel doesn't put out yearly retcons and origin stories
Less lite versions of characters (supergirl, kidflash, wondergirl etc.)
Less characters dieing off and being replaced by newbies
Less goofiness
Marvel's characters have more personality
Marvel has never produced an event as bad as Final Crisis

1. If you wanted to take a cheap shot at their character stable, you should have at least said 4 characters matter, considering the popularity of Green Lantern. This is equivalent to saying that only Wolverine matters at Marvel.

2. OMD? Cap: Reborn?

3. X-23? Daken? Unless you're strictly talking legacy characters.

4.

5. Goofiness isn't even a bad thing. And luckily, Marvel has plenty of it. ASM, Nextwave, Agents of Atlas, Hercules, etc. Marvel has plenty of more light-hearted titles, maybe even more than DC.

6. LOL

7. Ultimatum, Secret Invasion, House of M...

[Rurik]

You forgot the ultimate Marvel goof, Deadpool. :wink:

[Freakzeek]

What makes me like marvel more than Dc? Honestly? the Rabid DC Fanboys and Their constant praise of the SIlver age

[paulski]

They praise it because it's the foundation of what's come afterwards.

Just curious, do you think so little of Marvel's own Silver Age? Because it sure as hell beats most of what the company's printing right now.

[archer9234]

What doesn't beat most of the writing now?

[XPac]

What makes me like marvel more than Dc? Honestly? the Rabid DC Fanboys and Their constant praise of the SIlver age

I will say this about DC's silver age... I loved their covers. They were hilarious.

They often didn't make sense and had nothing to do with the story inside, but they're great for a good laugh when you look back at them.

Some of those Supermen covers in particular were priceless.

[Mobey Wee]

I love a lot of DC characters, Hal Jordan is a favorite, and while I wouldn't say either Supes or Bats would be a fav, the relationship between the 2 definitely is. This aside, every event where I try to jump on DC, I spend more time on the internet trying to figure out what is happening than I do reading the comic. Pick up the main Final Crisis trade, then pick up the Secret Invasion main trade, and tell me which one would be more inviting to a new reader. The only DC ongoing I keep up with is Green Lantern, the events like Sinestro War were contained enough that I could just read those trades and understand it fine, but this doesn't carry on to other DC books. I've been reading the "DC more than Marvel" thread, and after all of the anymosity between the 2, I'm too exhausted to write anything else. I like both, but I like marvel more... my heart hurts...

edit: also, the history of the DC universe having to go back BILLIONS of years to cover the "important" stuff is a bit intimidating.

[TradePaperbackTraitor]

DC is being run into the ground.

Their two most iconic and popular heroes of all-time are currently kicked out of their own books, which make up... what... 5 titles in the DC sub list?

Batman's death was nowhere near as classic as Cap's death. Very confusing to say the least, along with an even more confusing crossover event, and what once looked promising is turning into a huge dud with the Superman World of New Krypton storyline.

They have a lack of fresh young writing talent and rely more and more on Grant Morrison and ESPECIALLY Geoff Johns to resurrect titles. Missing that, they fall back on tried and true names like James Robinson, Kurt Busiek, and in the case of Booster Gold, the original creator himself, Dan Jurgens. Nothing wrong at all with these guys, they have written some of my favorite books, but I just don't see the Bendis/Millar/Ellis/Vaughan/Brubaker combos in DC, or even some of the newest Marvel names such as Fraction and Cornell. It just seems like DC fails to flush out fresh raw talent to keep its books exciting.

Not only the lack of fresh writers, but the lack of fresh new heroes. How many Green Lanterns and Flashes are there? How many Bat-Girl, Bat-Boy, Super-Boy, Wonder-Girl, or whatever younger spin-off of a classic character dated all the way back to the Golden Age do they create?

Nope, the only good thing going for DC right now is Vertigo and Marvel still has yet to touch that, even with some promising new books such as Incognito.

I realize Marvel is not flawless and honestly, I think I prefer indy superhero titles such as Irredeemable, Savior 28, and Invincible over much of the mainstream Marvel and DC stuff these days, but I just can't believe how many poor decisions DC has made in the last few years. It's as if they want to drive themselves out of business.

[thecrimson]

DC is being run into the ground.

Their two most iconic and popular heroes of all-time are currently kicked out of their own books, which make up... what... 5 titles in the DC sub list?

Batman's death was nowhere near as classic as Cap's death. Very confusing to say the least, along with an even more confusing crossover event, and what once looked promising is turning into a huge dud with the Superman World of New Krypton storyline.

They have a lack of fresh young writing talent and rely more and more on Grant Morrison and ESPECIALLY Geoff Johns to resurrect titles. Missing that, they fall back on tried and true names like James Robinson, Kurt Busiek, and in the case of Booster Gold, the original creator himself, Dan Jurgens. Nothing wrong at all with these guys, they have written some of my favorite books, but I just don't see the Bendis/Millar/Ellis/Vaughan/Brubaker combos in DC, or even some of the newest Marvel names such as Fraction and Cornell. It just seems like DC fails to flush out fresh raw talent to keep its books exciting.

Not only the lack of fresh writers, but the lack of fresh new heroes. How many Green Lanterns and Flashes are there? How many Bat-Girl, Bat-Boy, Super-Boy, Wonder-Girl, or whatever younger spin-off of a classic character dated all the way back to the Golden Age do they create?

Nope, the only good thing going for DC right now is Vertigo and Marvel still has yet to touch that, even with some promising new books such as Incognito.

I realize Marvel is not flawless and honestly, I think I prefer indy superhero titles such as Irredeemable, Savior 28, and Invincible over much of the mainstream Marvel and DC stuff these days, but I just can't believe how many poor decisions DC has made in the last few years. It's as if they want to drive themselves out of business.

Really they've been kicked out of their own comic? (By the way, who are they)

[TradePaperbackTraitor]

Really they've been kicked out of their own comic? (By the way, who are they)

They may be back by now, but Bruce Wayne/Batman and Clark Kent/Superman were nowhere to be found in Batman, Detective, Superman, Action, etc for several months. I was so jaded by the boring storylines in their non-starring books, predictable ending in Battle for the Cowl, and declining storyline in Superman New Krypton, that I gave up both titles for a while.

[thecrimson]

They may be back by now, but Bruce Wayne/Batman and Clark Kent/Superman were nowhere to be found in Batman, Detective, Superman, Action, etc for several months. I was so jaded by the boring storylines in their non-starring books, predictable ending in Battle for the Cowl, and declining storyline in Superman New Krypton, that I gave up both titles for a while.

I've checked the newest Batman comics and Bruce Wayne isn't in any because he is dead. Of course, Red Robin doesn't believe this and is out to find proof. Yet, in the Green Lantern comic crossover thing (Blackest Night) I heard that the dead Batman was being dug up to be turned into a Black Lantern.

[Endless Lies]

I like marvel more than DC because the have more interesting character outside the Justice League. Also Marvel characters have cooler powers, not just super strenght and speed. Marvel explains powers in a better way.

[thecrimson]

Marvel has sexier superheroines :biggrin:

[XPac]

I've checked the newest Batman comics and Bruce Wayne isn't in any because he is dead. Of course, Red Robin doesn't believe this and is out to find proof. Yet, in the Green Lantern comic crossover thing (Blackest Night) I heard that the dead Batman was being dug up to be turned into a Black Lantern.

I'm not a DC guy so I don't follow this stuff very closely.... but is Bruce actually dead? I think he was in a cave somewhere doing caveman painting or something.

[FlyingFox]

1. If you wanted to take a cheap shot at their character stable, you should have at least said 4 characters matter, considering the popularity of Green Lantern. This is equivalent to saying that only Wolverine matters at Marvel.

2. OMD? Cap: Reborn?

3. X-23? Daken? Unless you're strictly talking legacy characters.

4.

5. Goofiness isn't even a bad thing. And luckily, Marvel has plenty of it. ASM, Nextwave, Agents of Atlas, Hercules, etc. Marvel has plenty of more light-hearted titles, maybe even more than DC.

6. LOL

7. Ultimatum, Secret Invasion, House of M...

1. I'm not taking any cheap shots. I just wish they would push characters other than their main three. How many characters get their own title? Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Supergirl and a few others that escape me, compared to the shit load that Marvel publishes. Also, what if you don't like Batman or Superman? Thats like 10+ titles out of DC's catalogue that will have no interest to you.

2. Captain America: Reborn isn't an origin story or a retcon. Sure its showing parts of Steve's origin but its only part of a whole. And OMD is a very strange beast.

3.Does Marvel have an Iron Girl? Or a Hulk boy? Thor Lad? Or an Amazing Spider-Girl (in 616)

6. huh?

7. I don't consider Secret Invasion or House of M to be good stories but I do believe they are better than Final Crisis. Ultimatum was god awful but imo still not as bad as the mess that was Final Crisis.

[Cloudman]

've been reading the "what makes you like DC more than Marvel?" thread on the DC board, and wanted to hear the opposite side to this. What makes you like Marvel more than DC?

I've only been reading comics within the last year or so, and while I've read tons of DC, I haven't really read any Marvel - just one trade of Ultimate Spider-Man and one of X-Men. I was drawn to DC, I think, because of the more iconic feel to that universe, also the concept of the multiverse really appealed. However, since, I've only read a few Marvel, I can't fairly say I like DC better, let alone why I like it better.

2 words. Ultimate Comics.

[pariah-1972]

Has anyone in Dc comics stayed dead? there are good handfull of people in the Marvel Universe who have stayed dead permanently .

[Hibbleton]

I find that nearly all of the books that i read are marvel and when I try to think of why it really comes down to four things:

1. It takes place in real cities. It might not seem like a big deal but i like to be reading a book and then have a scene be set in a place that I've actually been.
2. Marvel's heroes are much more grounded and flawed. This is mostly because Stan Lee is so awesome but I'd rather read about and can connect with a character that has trouble paying for his bills and finds himself always in trouble because he is late because hes off super-heroing (And thats just Spider-Man). DC characters arejust harder to relate to: Batman is sad because his parents are dead. All right, thats fine... but it was like 30 years ago, jeez see a therapist. And for all the horrible things that his rogues have done he still refuses to kill them, honorable sure but it seems kind of small minded considering all the people that they have killed. Superman is (was) the last son of a lost planet. sad. NOt relateable though. And how the eff can no one figure out that he's Superman, seriously he's 6'5" and all muscle, i don't care how much he slouches. And if in 2013 the Siegel and Shuster families decide that they are tired of DC and sell the character to Marvel, well that would be epic.
3. The constant revamps of the DC universe. Lots of people have mentioned this but it is still a very valid point. I tried to figure out what happened in Final Crisis on wikipedia, and I still have no idea. I get tired of Marvel events just like everyone else, and the sliding timeline makes it kind of difficult to figure out what happened when but everything that happened actually happened (minus some retcons, but those are kind of a given in the medium, shifting creators and what not), which makes it so much easier to read.
4. Most of my favorite creators (Brubaker, Bendis, Fraction) are working for Marvel. I realize this could easily change but for the moment thats where they are. Even with Geoff Johns on the other team, and the skidmark that is Jeph Loeb's recent writing I still like Marvel's writers more. (And DC can keep Morrison and Quietly, I just don't see the appeal.

Just my opinion, but hey thats what the internet is for.

[pariah-1972]

The thing that helps with Marvel is most of it was created by(Stan Lee and Jack Kirby mostly) one or two people which makes the universe a lot more consistent.

[obadiah horn]

To me the reason I like Marvel better than DC Is the non superhuman cast of the Marvel Universe. DC heroes seem to always get a free pass for all of the property damage that occurs and all the people love them. In marvel there are a few teams and characters that are beloved but the even the Icon of Marvel (Spiderman) is distrusted and sometimes hated.Another the Hulk has been hunted by the military most of his career. Mutant hate has been a continual theme in Marvel since the 60's.

This has led to Marvel being able to take on more serious issues with some of thier books X- Men has pretty much been a reflection of America's civil rights prolem since their inception and with the Legacy Virus they tackled AIDS. Civil War for all of it's problems was at least an attempt to look at the unase some Americans felt over the PATRIOT ACT.

Often times in Marvel character have to do what they believe is right even though the people are against them. Also the characters aren't infallible They make mistakes and have failures.A lot of Marvel characters also have glaring character flaws. All of this I find easier to relate to than characters that are overpowered never wrong and get get parades for doing what they are expected to do.

I'm sure there have been a few arcs DC has done in the last 70 years that can counter what I've said but in my eyes it hasn't been consistent enough for me to care.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

1. I'm not taking any cheap shots. I just wish they would push characters other than their main three. How many characters get their own title? Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Supergirl and a few others that escape me, compared to the shit load that Marvel publishes. Also, what if you don't like Batman or Superman? Thats like 10+ titles out of DC's catalogue that will have no interest to you.

2. Captain America: Reborn isn't an origin story or a retcon. Sure its showing parts of Steve's origin but its only part of a whole. And OMD is a very strange beast.

3.Does Marvel have an Iron Girl? Or a Hulk boy? Thor Lad? Or an Amazing Spider-Girl (in 616)

6. huh?

7. I don't consider Secret Invasion or House of M to be good stories but I do believe they are better than Final Crisis. Ultimatum was god awful but imo still not as bad as the mess that was Final Crisis.

1. DC has much more than just those titles. Legions of Super-Heroes. R.E.B.E.L.S. Checkmate. Detective Comics (Batwoman is a different beast than Batman). Doom Patrol. Metal Men. The Question. This is just the tip of the iceberg really because I'm only just getting into the DCU.

2. Brubaker has said that Cap: Reborn is supposed to function, among other things, as a re-telling of the origin for new readers. OMD is like the Retcon Punch from DC. Both are stupid. As was Marvel's No More Mutants. Each company has dumb changes.

3. Yes they do, it's called Young Avengers. An entire team of legacy characters. Patriot, female Hawkeye, Vision, Hulkling, and that Iron Boy lad or whatever his name was.

6. I was saying "LOL" at the silly claim that Marvel characters have more personality. Neither company can claim to having a monopoly on interesting characters that stand out.

7. Nothing is worse than Ultimatum.

[Illmatik]

I personally like Marvel more than DC because of the characters and the overall feel of the universe. The DC Universe seems like a mess with multiple versions of each character running around. The only DC comics I've enjoyed are the ones that are standalone stories that take place in separate continuity, like All Star Superman

Also, I like the recaps in the beginning of Marvel Comics. You can pick up any Marvel comic, read the recap and find out what happened last issue and continue reading. When I pick up a DC comic that looks interesting from the cover, I have no idea what is going on when I try to read it, and end up just putting it back down.

[thecrimson]

I'm not a DC guy so I don't follow this stuff very closely.... but is Bruce actually dead? I think he was in a cave somewhere doing caveman painting or something.

Oh, my bad. People believe he's dead. I believe he was sent back in time or something like that. Though a Black Lantern was seen digging up Bruce Wayne's grave.

[Spectra]

What makes me like Marvel more than DC?...The fact that Marvel makes their black characters matter.

Co-sign on this one. Dc isn't doing it for me. I can't relate at all. Especially when it comes to DC's black female characters.

That Bumblebee chick......oh please:rolleyes:

Maybe Vixen ...next:rolleyes:

Give me Pulsar and Storm any day, some females with real power and their cooler!

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss206/ladylight/63_marvel_divas_3-1.jpghttp://img17.imageshack.us/img17/412/uxm449.jpg

[Frank]

why is marvel better?


Claremont's 15 year x-men run

Frank Miller's Daredevil, Wolverine and Spiderman

Iron Man any decade

the only kick ass DC thing i remember as a kid id the 60s batman tv shot and the first 2 movies

Yea CC's 15 years X-Men run is THE thing for me that makes Marvel this unbeatable force that I will always gravitate too. Both Universe have interesting and fun characters whether it's Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Green Lantern, Captain America, Hulk, Thor, Flash, Legion, etc...but a comic run this great and successful surpasses any single character. It changed comics forever. It changed the way heroes act and are presented. It modernised super-heroes. After what happened in X-Men you had everybody trying to copy it. For example, DC had an event like "Legends" wich was heroes being branded as villains and them fighting the public perception as they were banned.

[Frank]

But if that is the period when you sampled the Superman title, then that would lead to your preferring one character or universe of characters over the others. I was too young at the time to even know what "truism" or "evocative" would have even meant!

All I know that is that back at that time, there were a lot of DC covers like this:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/176/jimmy088kryptoncrawl.jpg
While at Marvel, you had this one.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/FF39.jpg

Most people in my era got into comics when it was assumed that the readership would fall into the age range of about 7 to 12 years old and the storytelling style of the era represented by these two covers reflected that. But Marvel got the jump on DC when Stan, as hamboned as he could be, raised that bar a bit or at least enough to hook older readers and to keep them hooked with arcs that would last several issues. DC started to seem "uncool" and behind the times. I don't think they've ever really totally recovered from that.

Even as a young kid going into my cousin comics, I would gravitate toward the more dramatic 60s/70s Marvel stuff, they seemed more dramatic and interesting.

[paulski]

Co-sign on this one. Dc isn't doing it for me. I can't relate at all. Especially when it comes to DC's black female characters.

That Bumblebee chick......oh please:rolleyes:

Maybe Vixen ...next:rolleyes:

Give me Pulsar and Storm any day, some females with real power and their cooler!

Wait... they make their black female characters matter?

That's why they've changed Monica Rambeau's codename yet again? Because she's obviously been deemed such an important character by the Marvel powers-that-be that a second-rate Capt Marvel knock-off like Genis-Vell has stolen her name twice now? Right...

[LungerTony]

Really...how many people's preference for Marvel or DC was/is directed by their black female superhero cast.

Storm is cool and all, but really it certainly had zero effect on mine.

[Raharu]

I tend to be pretty equalized between the two with my pull list. They both have their characters, teams and titles I enjoy.

[Freakzeek]

I've been thinking about it and I love marvel but thet don't have one thing: JONAH HEX

[TeamED209]

I've always enjoyed the Dc characters more than the marvel characters conceptually but i don't see why you need a definitive favorite....i tend to enjoy the less mainstream marvel stuff ie cosmic stuff , mighty ect and its the opposite way around at Dc where i enjoy my batman , green latern ect....

to be honest i think you lose out on good stories if you stick to only one company

[paulski]

Really...how many people's preference for Marvel or DC was/is directed by their black female superhero cast.

Storm is cool and all, but really it certainly had zero effect on mine.

Me neither. Not one bit.

(Actually, post edited because I really have no interest in continuing on about characters I don't care one iota about. Better things to do... :wink: )

[carabas]

3.Does Marvel have an Iron Girl? Or a Hulk boy? Thor Lad? Or an Amazing Spider-Girl (in 616).
Eh, yes, they do. There is an Iron woman flying around, as well as Black Iron Man aka War Machine. And there indeed is a Hulk Boy (aka Hulkling) as well as two she-Hulks and a Red Hulk. No Thor Lad, but there is Thor Girl, as well as Thunderstrike and Beta Ray Bill.
And there is a whole bunch of Spider-Women, indeed including the teenaged Mattie Franklin.

[Aziz Abbasi]

I'll compare "Rick Jones" to "Snapper Carr"
Rick is a cool athlete and a friend and a good help for many superheroes: Hulk, "Captain Marvel", "Captain America", the rest of the Avengers. Rick is a fighter not just some teenage dude with a fancy name who snaps his fingers most of the times and I don't know if he by any chance fights, what does a guy like him do with the "Justice League" anyway? I know I wish Rick didn't die in the first place, not dead then resurrected as an abomination

There are more entertaining characters created by Marvel than there are by DC:
Marvel Great Heroes:
Hulk
Spider-Man
Iron Man
Human Torch/Johnny Storm
Deadpool
Wolverine
Nightcrawler
Hawkeye
Moon Knight
Black Panther
Punisher
DareDevil

Marvel Great Villains:
Too many to count

DC Great Heroes:
Superman (his are the best comic series I ever read)
Batman
Nightwing
Green Arrow
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Flash
Booster Gold
Blue Beetle

DC Great Villains:
Amazo
Solomon Grundy
Lobo (more of an antihero I guess)
Joker
Lex Luthor
Brainiac
Two-Face
ClayFace

That raps it up

Marvel are better in comedy and in characters more relating to humans than DC does

Marvel has the Romitas & their star hero "Stan Lee"

[carabas]

There are more entertaining characters created by Marvel than there are by DC...
All that really proves is that you personally think that there are more entertaining characters at Marvel, and possibly that you need to read more books.

There are more entertaining characters in Birds Of Prey alone than what you listed there for both companies.

[Libaax]

I dont care about Marvel or DC. I read interesting series mostly for the creators.

I read Marvel because i read several comics by Bru,Pak,Van Lente,DnA,Peter David.

DC i read more than Marvel 2-3 years ago because they had the combination of quality creators in interesting comics.

[XPac]

All that really proves is that you personally think that there are more entertaining characters at Marvel, and possibly that you need to read more books.

There are more entertaining characters in Birds Of Prey alone than what you listed there for both companies.

The thing is, I sometimes think DC doesn't they have that many interesting characters.

For the past few decades, they've done nothing but push Batman or Superman. We'll probably get about 30 Batmen movies before a Wonder Woman ever see's the light of day.

Marvel will try with just about any character... people like Blade or Electra will get movies. But DC seems pretty tight about not pushing anyone but Superman or Batman. Maybe that's just what it means to being a part of a larger company like Warner Bros, I don't know... but I just never understood that.

[carabas]

Marvel will try with just about any character... people like Blade or Electra will get movies. But DC seems pretty tight about not pushing anyone but Superman or Batman. Maybe that's just what it means to being a part of a larger company like Warner Bros, I don't know... but I just never understood that.The difference between Marvel and DC when it comes t movies is that DC has very little influence in what does and does not get made, and that they don't get any money from it either.They do not own the movie rights to any of their properties.
Marvel will license out any property if there's money in it. Which is probably why they are still in business as they can't draw on Time Warner money.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

The thing is, I sometimes think DC doesn't they have that many interesting characters.

For the past few decades, they've done nothing but push Batman or Superman. We'll probably get about 30 Batmen movies before a Wonder Woman ever see's the light of day.

Marvel will try with just about any character... people like Blade or Electra will get movies. But DC seems pretty tight about not pushing anyone but Superman or Batman. Maybe that's just what it means to being a part of a larger company like Warner Bros, I don't know... but I just never understood that.

DC does try to push their more obscure characters, but I think the DC readership is even more stubborn and set-in-their-ways than Marvel's.

Like, right now I'm loving Doom Patrol/Metal Men and REBELS, but I have a feeling both books are going to face an uphill battle finding an audience to sustain the ongoing. DC has such a cool set of characters, but outside of books like Wednesday Comics I don't know if they can all be highlighted without dozens of series cancellations.

[AllisterH]

DC does try to push their more obscure characters, but I think the DC readership is even more stubborn and set-in-their-ways than Marvel's.

Like, right now I'm loving Doom Patrol/Metal Men and REBELS, but I have a feeling both books are going to face an uphill battle finding an audience to sustain the ongoing. DC has such a cool set of characters, but outside of books like Wednesday Comics I don't know if they can all be highlighted without dozens of series cancellations.

Oh yes. Both DC and Marvel fans complain bitterly about "how comics suck" even though BOTH companies have other titles which kick ass.

[Spectra]

Wait... they make their black female characters matter?

That's why they've changed Monica Rambeau's codename yet again? Because she's obviously been deemed such an important character by the Marvel powers-that-be that a second-rate Capt Marvel knock-off like Genis-Vell has stolen her name twice now? Right...


I never claimed that Marvel was perfect. I do feel that Marvel was first in having two black females in leadership roles of two of it's top teams. Back then that would of taken some balls and some form of respect for both characters to want to make that kind of move. That claim cannot be made by DC at all.

Pulsar has led two teams. Storm led the X-men for years. Black Panther led the F4 along side his wife and Cage led the Avengers also. In my comic book reading community those are accomplishments we like to see in our heroes, black heroes shown in a positive light.

At least Marvel's minority characters are given the opportunity to be in leadership roles. DC is so far up Batman and Superman's asses that little to none of their other characters are given time to shine especially characters of African decent.

As for the name Captain Marvel, Pulsar never asked to be Captain Marvel the media gave it to her. So when Mar-vell's son Genis came around it was only fitting that he have his father's code name and they both mutually agreed to this.

Genis did steal the code name Photon from Monica, and I felt that he was an a**hole for doing so and Marvel could have handled that scene a little better. She's moved on and so have I, and personally I like her better as Pulsar now anyway, Photon sounded too masculine for my taste.

[Spectra]

Really...how many people's preference for Marvel or DC was/is directed by their black female superhero cast.

Storm is cool and all, but really it certainly had zero effect on mine.



That's fine if she had no effect on you, she's had an effect on me and that was my point. As a black female that was into comics, she was a positive image to look to, strong, feminine, caring, independent, knew who she was, didn't take any shit. That's the kind of woman I strive to be everyday, and I'm sure there are little black girls coming into comics who also look for that in their female heroes.


Storm is one of Marvels top female characters. She has many fans, black, white, female, male, etc...Some are on this forum. Just check out her respect thread and you will see.

My little cousin ashley, is getting into comics and she likes reading about Storm and Pulsar in action. She enjoys seeing heroes who look like her, being strong and able. She and I would rather read about them than some Hallie Berry knock off aka Vixen that's not really making a mark on her or the comic book industry.

[Spectra]

Me neither. Not one bit.

(Actually, post edited because I really have no interest in continuing on about characters I don't care one iota about. Better things to do... :wink: )

Really....If that's the case, why post in this thread to begin with or comment on my view:rolleyes:

[thecrimson]

I love this thread so much, I've decided to post again. There are good DC comics and there are good Marvel comics. I hate Superman, but I love Teen Titans, Red Robin, and Batman. I hate the X-Men and Iron Man, but love Spider-Man, Hulk, and others. There are negatives and postitives, so there is no point in arguing. (feel free to do so). If anyone would recommend any DC comics or Marvel comics that I might like, please do so. :biggrin:

[Mechano]

I love this thread so much, I've decided to post again. There are good DC comics and there are good Marvel comics. I hate Superman, but I love Teen Titans, Red Robin, and Batman. I hate the X-Men and Iron Man, but love Spider-Man, Hulk, and others. There are negatives and postitives, so there is no point in arguing. (feel free to do so). If anyone would recommend any DC comics or Marvel comics that I might like, please do so. :biggrin:



i agree. i hate superman batman aquaman( he is such a sub-mariner ripoff) but i love green lantern and hawkman.

in the same sense, i hate wolverine and really don't care for spider-man, but i love hulk and x-men. the reason i like marvel over dc... because i grew up on hulk and x-men, and still can't wait to get the new issues every month. i can live without gl and hawkman.

[bjmorga]

I started with DC when I was seven or so, but I grew into Marvel by the time I was ten or eleven. Punisher really did it for me back in the day. I was reading Batman a lot, but Punisher blew my mind. Punisher was killing mother$#^%*^ while Batman was still punching guys dressing up like clowns.the oft-stated idea about how Marvel's characters are more real and mature is sort of cliched, but it is true. I can feel no fear or tension for Superman.

[rawhidekid]

I started off reading X-Men in the 90's. I just found that the characters were just more interesting. I was 15 at the time.

I think that was the reason I never caught onto DC comics. I grew up before I started reading comics. DC is more for kids. If I was 12 when I read DC I might have liked it and stayed with them.

[pariah-1972]

I started off reading X-Men in the 90's. I just found that the characters were just more interesting. I was 15 at the time.

I think that was the reason I never caught onto DC comics. I grew up before I started reading comics. DC is more for kids. If I was 12 when I read DC I might have liked it and stayed with them.I read mostly Dc when i was a kid but when i started getting older i started getting into Marvel.

[paulski]

Post edited again. Not worth the pain.

[rawhidekid]

I read mostly Dc when i was a kid but when i started getting older i started getting into Marvel.
Makes sense. I think at the time when I was in pre-school every boy wanted to be Superman then you slowly figure out he is so lame. Marvel does have a more mature sense.

Post edited again. Not worth the pain.
Why leave a vague post as if you have all the answers but wish not to share them? Should have just deleted it or leave a ....

[berk]

I think Marvel had a much stronger set of core concepts and characters, simply because people like Kirby and Ditko were so involved in their creation right from the start. And it's no coincidence that many of the best non-Vertigo characters at DC were created by Kirby during his stay there.

But that was decades ago. There's been so much cross-pollination and mutual influence between the two companies over the years that at this point there isn't really much difference between them. So as Libaax said, the smart thing now is just to follow your favourite creators.

[paulski]

Why leave a vague post as if you have all the answers but wish not to share them? Should have just deleted it or leave a ....

Surely you know that posters can't just delete posts in full. No one, save mods, have that kind of ability. And I don't see where leaving a "..." serves a much better purpose.

Incidentally, I've never claimed to "have all the answers" about anything as you suggest. Personally that just comes across as somewhat condescending and insulting, and I'm really not sure why you've seen fit to go down that route. :confused: :frown:

[Alexrules]

I always thought Marvel had an abundance of more interesting characters. Even the less known characters had some good substance to them and they had interesting stories in their back grounds.

[olympichero62]

DC's characters are fantastical and not really realistic with the exception of Batman. Many of them can do anything and everything. And now that I think about it, even Batman has betrayed his oringinal roots. He is like a walking Deux Ex Machina now. It would be great that you can argue that Batman is a great character because he is more human than the other DC characters, but Batman can do anything and everything now. He is a master 200 some odd martial arts, he can escape from any situation, he has and infinite amount of money, he has cars, planes, spaceships, teleporters, and so on. He just isn't as human and flawed as DC wants you to think.

The Marvel characters seem more realistic and flawed. DC cant get anything done without running it by the WB. It also seems to me like the characters don't really grow or progress really at all. They may do a few good story lines here and there, but everything always comes full circle. Just look at Batman, DC had to kill him off for people to start buying his books again, not to mention the fact that no one outside of the comics industry even noticed. I had friends that wanted to read Batman again after "The Dark Knight" came out, but the Batman book was so confusing (The Batman R.I.P. storyline) and off the walls that they thought it wasn't even worth it. And it wasn't

The stories are entirely inaccessible to normal readers. Parallel earths, and alternate universes, etc... Then they release these marketing ploys to sell toys they call story lines in the form of "crises" to fix everything and we are supposed believe that you can read everything in one sitting and enjoy or even understand the 50 years of continuity that is compressed into 7 issues. Also, nothing is never finished in a timely fashion. I can't remember the last time a DC "event" was drawn by 1 artist and 1 artist only.

DC has some great characters, don't get me wrong, but they don't utilize them properly. Aside from Superman, Batman, and Catwoman, they can't even get a half-decent film of the ground to expose the characters to a new market. Marvel uses their characters. Some of the movies might suck but at least the characters are out there...

'Nuff Said

[Raharu]

DC cant get anything done without running it by the WB.

Where are you getting this? DC is owned by WB sure, but I've never heard that DC has to run every single discussion they make by their parent company.

Just look at Batman, DC had to kill him off for people to start buying his books again,

Safe to assume you didn't look at the sales before this whole Batman Reborn thing started and just listening to nonsense from others? Yes, this Reborn 'event' has bumped sales of all the titles, but both the main Batman title and Detective Comics were selling well before Reborn and his "death" in Final Crisis.

[olympichero62]

Where are you getting this? DC is owned by WB sure, but I've never heard that DC has to run every single discussion they make by their parent company.

Have you not been paying attention to the Superman titles, characters, movies, etc. in relation to the court case regarding the Siegels v. Warner Brothers?? That is just one example of how the WB influences DC comics...

Safe to assume you didn't look at the sales before this whole Batman Reborn thing started and just listening to nonsense from others? Yes, this Reborn 'event' has bumped sales of all the titles, but both the main Batman title and Detective Comics were selling well before Reborn and his "death" in Final Crisis.

If you look at the January sales figures, Batman was selling around 75,000. Now, after the crisis is done and Bruce is replaced by Dick, Batman is selling around 100,000. That's a pretty big jump, right? Do you need a powerpoint presentation or is it safe to assume Batman has had a large jump in sales and readers since Bruce's death?

[Raharu]

Well, let's take a look at what you said here:

Just look at Batman, DC had to kill him off for people to start buying his books again,

DC had to kill him off to get people to start buying his books again. Pretty interesting, and a little bold statement there.

Now, let's take a look at my response:

Safe to assume you didn't look at the sales before this whole Batman Reborn thing started and just listening to nonsense from others? Yes, this Reborn 'event' has bumped sales of all the titles, but both the main Batman title and Detective Comics were selling well before Reborn and his "death" in Final Crisis.

I've bolded two important points here. If you notice I acknowledged that Reborn has bumped sells. Also you'll notice that I said "well", not amazing, not spectacular, but well. I question the full accuracy of those numbers (as I remember the RIP arc as selling in the Top 5 at least once), but we'll go with them as it's probably not so far as from the actual increase percentage

My point was that the idea that no one was buying Batman titles and Reborn somehow made everyone rush to it is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Not too different from what, say, Captain America got from Steve's death. Though his title got a little increase with Civil War, but red and green apples almost. Batman and Detective were selling well before the aftermath of Final Crisis

Have you not been paying attention to the Superman titles, characters, movies, etc. in relation to the court case regarding the Siegels v. Warner Brothers?? That is just one example of how the WB influences DC comics...

I'm not aware of how that case is effecting the current status quo of Superman. Even if it is, which I question, that is only one case, and an exceptional one at that. You said "DC cant get anything done without running it by the WB" which I've never heard, in fact from most of what I have read on the subject is that direct relation between the two is quite rare. Care to have any other examples

[olympichero62]

Rose-Colored Glasses fella....

[Aziz Abbasi]

I'm sorry, but this was wrong for me to add here