Pick Your Poison: Your Fave Book: Written by Loeb, or drawn by Liefeld? [Archive]

b..

07-19-2009, 05:29 AM

i went with liefeld - you never know, if he gets paired with someone like fraction it could be pretty cool. his deadpool run with waid way back when was alright. 'course i may be completely of kilter. either way, of late loeb's had all the help in the world and still sucks arse.
by the way, just asking the question....it ain't right.

dupont2005

07-19-2009, 06:13 AM

couldnt they just team up and make the best comic book ever?

Tobias March

07-19-2009, 06:21 AM

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p239/bonzobutch/marvel/onslaught-1.jpg

It didn't take....

vcassel

07-19-2009, 07:20 AM

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p239/bonzobutch/marvel/onslaught-1.jpg

It didn't take....

was the thing beheaded in this issue?

Sijo

07-19-2009, 07:47 AM

Liefield. An issue of bad art won't ruin a character. A badly written story on the other hand...

Jeremi

07-19-2009, 08:05 AM

Liefield. An issue of bad art won't ruin a character. A badly written story on the other hand...

I agree, Liefield it is.

dupont2005

07-19-2009, 08:09 AM

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p239/bonzobutch/marvel/onslaught-1.jpg

It didn't take....

well of course not. it needs a prizm foil hologram cover

DonC

07-19-2009, 08:18 AM

It's kind of a shame. Both of them started off doing some good stuff. Rob Liefeld teamed with Karl Kesel inking Hawk & Dove was perfectly fine artwork. Sure most of that is probably due to the fact Kesel was the best inker in comics at the time, but still, it wasn't anywhere near as over-the-top as Rob's later works.

And Jeph Loeb's work with Tim Sale was outstanding. Challengers of the Unknown, Superman: For all Seasons and their Batman stuff were all great.

OverMaster

07-19-2009, 08:21 AM

I pick Loeb. At least there's a chance he'll come up with something good. As already mentioned, his Tim Sale collaborations are all great, and even Hush was entertaining and not actually abysmal.

Kees_L

07-19-2009, 09:41 AM

Your favorite book, your favorite character:

Would you rather have Loeb's writing OR Liefeld's art?

Well, neither I suppose.
Since in my view both names seem to stand for unfavourable representations of comics. (But I won't blame them for their work. I blame their publishers.)

My comic favouritism I base on quality of the art, storytelling and originality.
And with storytelling I largely mean graphically, such as panel-by-panel timing and composition. The part of a comic writer will be in there somewhere too, (like finding the right tone and coming up with appropriate-sounding dialogue) but for me such a writer in essence needs to fully grasp the medium, by becoming a sinergy with the art or artist.

Loyalty toward titles or characters can hardly be an issue in my comic favouritism.
That's why many long-running 'flagship' titles, such as Spider-Man or Batman - seemingly safeguarded in mediocrity by the publishers - will often enough not cut it for me.
The multi-shaded overcomputerized colouring (as seen in comtemporary Marvel books) I greatly dislike also. Even good art still mostly looks bad in this, to me anyway.

mikekerr3

07-19-2009, 09:49 AM

Liefield. An issue of bad art won't ruin a character. A badly written story on the other hand...

Quoted for truth, bad art makes the story hard to enjoy, bad writing make the story simply bad.

Cloudman

07-20-2009, 01:36 AM

http://www.toplessrobot.com/liefeld_cap.jpg

I know this has been posted elsewhere, but it really does show that Liefeld is one of the worst artists known to man.

He evidently has no knowledge of human figure, or even perspective. I can just about tolerate Loeb because I know that he has had some successes in the past. Liefeld has always been terrible.

robbieglenn

07-20-2009, 02:11 AM

http://www.toplessrobot.com/liefeld_cap.jpg

CHEESE AND RICE! Is that meant to be serious?!

worstblogever

07-20-2009, 02:12 AM

For those suggesting they team up? THEY HAVE. IT WAS DREADFUL.

http://marvel.com/catalog/?book_id=5532

http://www.herorealm.com/images/Previews/JAN_08/ONSLAUGHT_TPB.jpg

Try to figure out why Cap's wearing oven mitts.

I'd take Loeb. He still writes okay books with "Marvel Hero: Color", last I checked. That's about it, really.

vcassel

07-20-2009, 05:58 AM

^^^ at least there's a couple of feet in that picture

Ilash

07-20-2009, 06:09 AM

Loeb by a mile. At least there's a chance that he'll churn out something worthwhile. It's not like the guy has never written a decent comic before in his life.

Cloudman

07-20-2009, 06:55 AM

howyadoin

07-20-2009, 11:16 AM

Oh, just what we needed. Another Liefeld thread to go with the other 20 we already have.

vcassel

07-20-2009, 11:17 AM

Oh, just what we needed. Another Liefeld thread to go with the other 20 we already have.

we're completists

Paul McEnery

07-20-2009, 11:24 AM

couldnt they just team up and make the best comic book ever?

Only if we start pronouncing Liefeld's name like Leopold.

Paul McEnery

07-20-2009, 11:24 AM

Oh, just what we needed. Another Liefeld thread to go with the other 20 we already have.

we're completists

Slab it!
....

Tadhg

07-20-2009, 11:38 AM

And Jeph Loeb's work with Tim Sale was outstanding. Challengers of the Unknown, Superman: For all Seasons and their Batman stuff were all great.

Well, it was pretty at least.

howyadoin

07-20-2009, 11:41 AM

we're completists

Slab it!Heh. Nice.

Now where's the hologram?

Dave G.

07-20-2009, 11:44 AM

Have to go with Liefeld art. Bad art can be forgiven, but bad writing is forever.

Shellhead

07-20-2009, 12:09 PM

I choose actual poison, instead of Loeb or Liefeld.

thehod

07-20-2009, 01:14 PM

So I'm choosing between a guy who was never able to draw, still isn't able to draw and unless he pulls the fingers that hold his pens and brushes out of his ass will never be able to draw, against a guy who wrote a few really bad comics and Batman: Long Halloween, Superman for all Seasons, Batman/Spirit, and wrote one of the most brilliant 6 page comic stories I've ever read in tribute to his late son.

Boy, that is a tricky one.

Paul McEnery

07-20-2009, 02:36 PM

Heh. Nice.

Now where's the hologram?

Well, I'm currently embossed with silver foil. Does that count?

Reptisaurus!

07-20-2009, 02:49 PM

I'm fine with both of them.

I generally like Loeb's stuff - He's quite good at the craft of writing comics except for the part where he can't plot AT ALL, which... eh, is less important to me than other things.

And I generally find Liefeld's work entertaining, which is a lot of what I look for in comics. Even when it's terrible (as it frequently is) it's terrible in an interesting and unique way where I can go "Man. I bet nobody in the history of comics has drawn THAT before."

Aubergine~!

07-20-2009, 03:01 PM

I generally like Loeb's stuff - He's quite good at the craft of writing comics except for the part where he can't plot AT ALL, which... eh, is less important to me than other things.

Eh, still think he's waaay too erratic. Think he should stick with DC characters, as his work just seems to turn to crap whenever he works with Marvel.

And I generally find Liefeld's work entertaining, which is a lot of what I look for in comics. Even when it's terrible (as it frequently is) it's terrible in an interesting and unique way where I can go "Man. I bet nobody in the history of comics has drawn THAT before."

Man's got a point.

SUPERECWFAN1

07-20-2009, 03:26 PM

I'll have to pick Loeb. The guy did "Long Halloween" and "Hush". He at least has some good books on his resume.

mgs

07-20-2009, 06:57 PM

Loeb. I didn't know there was something against him, recently. :confused:

SUPERECWFAN1

07-20-2009, 07:07 PM

Loeb. I didn't know there was something against him, recently. :confused:

That evil BASSSTTTAAARRD has been doing that red Hulk series. Its not exactly one many like. But I think its pretty funny from what I scanned in my LCS.

mgs

07-20-2009, 08:21 PM

That evil BASSSTTTAAARRD has been doing that red Hulk series. Its not exactly one many like. But I think its pretty funny from what I scanned in my LCS.
oh. I only read one issue.

so are people mad that it's bad. or disagree with what he is writing?

Tadhg

07-20-2009, 08:22 PM

I'm pretty sure there's more hatred for Loeb because of Ultimatum.

Cloudman

07-21-2009, 01:39 AM

oh. I only read one issue.

so are people mad that it's bad. or disagree with what he is writing?

Red Hulk is vaguely tolerable because it doesn't affect most people.

Ultimatum is a disgusting, awfully written and generally shit comic. The word 'comic' being used fairly generously there.

Pól Rua

07-21-2009, 01:44 AM

we're completists

Slab it!

Gotta slab 'em all.

But really, Loeb. Dude's not great, but he's capable of producing something that doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon.
Liefeld... not so much.

howyadoin

07-21-2009, 01:46 AM

But really, Loeb. Dude's not great, but he's capable of producing something that doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon.
Liefeld... not so much.So if they collaborate, you still get to keep one eye.

Pól Rua

07-21-2009, 01:52 AM

Ultimatum is a disgusting, awfully written and generally shit comic. The word 'comic' being used fairly generously there.

There's a way for this not to affect you.
Plus, you get to save money to spend on comics you might actually enjoy!

It's a two-fer!

StoneGold

07-21-2009, 01:58 AM

You know, it's funny, if you wanted to call Loeb a douchebag, I'd generally agree. At least, the little interaction I've had with him at cons and such... less than awesome. But I don't mind the dude's work too much. Yeah, a lot of it is fluff, but some of it is fun fluff.

Reptisaurus!

07-21-2009, 12:22 PM

I'm pretty sure there's more hatred for Loeb because of Ultimatum.

As there is for everyone who's ever written an inter-company crossover. Fans feel pressured to buy them, and then feel required to complain because everybody else is complaining.

(I would say for everyone who's ever written a bad inter-company crossover, but it ain't like I'm reading Ultimatum. So I can't judge.)

Sean Walsh

07-21-2009, 01:30 PM

Loeb, because at least he's got books like LONG HALLOWEEN and SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS on his resume.

J. Robb

07-21-2009, 08:57 PM

couldnt they just team up and make the best comic book ever?
The funny thing is, my usual go-to answer for "worst comic ever" is Captain America (Reborn) #6. Check out the credits:

http://www.whiterocketbooks.com/avengers/heroesreborn/cav26.jpg

Chris N

07-21-2009, 09:51 PM

Really, you may like Liefeld, but can you really say his art is objectively bad? It's really just about opinions.

Some people really dig his style. And that means he's actually good.

Jared

07-22-2009, 12:13 AM

We can objectivly say that Captain American isn't suppossed to look like he swallowed a goddamn refrigerator.

Loeb has written good-to-great books in the past. I'm hopeful, that sometime after he's done trying his best to ruin the Ultimate line, he'll have some more greats in him. My favorite character is Batman, and that's where he's done some of his best work. I don't think he has it in him to screw up Batman too badly. I read the first two arcs of Superman/Batman and they weren't so bad...at least not for Batman. Superman readers are the ones who really seem to have a complaint.

That said, if we were talking about my second, third, or fourth favorite characters, I'd take Liefeld. Sure, it will look terrible, but there's not much chance that art alone will wreck the whole book.

Jared

07-22-2009, 12:16 AM

Guapo Méndez

07-22-2009, 08:13 AM

The funny thing is, my usual go-to answer for "worst comic ever" is Captain America (Reborn) #6. Check out the credits:

http://www.whiterocketbooks.com/avengers/heroesreborn/cav26.jpg

My God. Cap's impossible posture, Cable's 40 teeth, his massive shoulder, the arm that disappears completely behind that "gun", the flat fingers, the guns and sword on his back, the right hand that can't be holding that impossible gun...

...and is the bayonet just -barely- larger than the gun? What's the point? "Hey, since you survived a blast from futuristic double-barreled shotgun, you only have a few hit-points left, so I'm just going to jam half an inch of steel through your chest so you can croak it adequately."

Cloudman

07-22-2009, 12:58 PM

There's a way for this not to affect you.
Plus, you get to save money to spend on comics you might actually enjoy!

It's a two-fer!

Sadly, I really need to get Ultimatum, because it affects Ultimate Spidey, my favourite comic. Trust me, if I didn't have to get it, I wouldn't.

Reptisaurus!

07-22-2009, 03:59 PM

Sadly, I really need to get Ultimatum, because it affects Ultimate Spidey, my favourite comic. Trust me, if I didn't have to get it, I wouldn't.

Repeat after me.

You don't have to get anything.

It's a Spider-man related comic, but with a different writer and a different artist.

Therefore, this is going to be an entirely different take on Spider-man than Bendis and Bagley/Immmommmmmen. (I never know when to stop spelling that.)

If you think you're going to enjoy something, buy it.

If you're interested in the possible changes to the Spider-man status quo, but don't think you'll like the comic... There's wikipedia. There's spoiler threads on the boards.

The comic companies, obviously, want you to think you "have to" buy their product.

Screw 'em and their manipulative bull-pucky. Don't let 'em sell you crap you don't want.

Kees_L

07-22-2009, 04:13 PM

Some people really dig his style. And that means he's actually good.

But that's just your opinion.

jade_nova

07-22-2009, 06:57 PM

Can you guys do better than Loeb or Liefeld?

Cloudman

07-22-2009, 11:58 PM

Repeat after me.

You don't have to get anything.

It's a Spider-man related comic, but with a different writer and a different artist.

Therefore, this is going to be an entirely different take on Spider-man than Bendis and Bagley/Immmommmmmen. (I never know when to stop spelling that.)

If you think you're going to enjoy something, buy it.

If you're interested in the possible changes to the Spider-man status quo, but don't think you'll like the comic... There's wikipedia. There's spoiler threads on the boards.

The comic companies, obviously, want you to think you "have to" buy their product.

Screw 'em and their manipulative bull-pucky. Don't let 'em sell you crap you don't want.

I don't care. Ultimate Spider-man might die, so I'm going to read it just to find out asap. I've collected every issue so far, so I might as well get the last one.

Can you guys do better than Loeb or Liefeld?

I can't do better than Liefeld, because I'm not an artist. That said, I can draw Captain America without huge man-breasts.
I can probably do better than Loeb. I can't beat his older work like Long Halloween, but the new stuff is awful.
However, people on this forum not being able to do better doesn't change the fact that they are both terrible. We expect them to be good, because people that Marvel and DC hire are meant to be good.

howyadoin

07-23-2009, 02:34 AM

I don't care. Ultimate Spider-man might die, so I'm going to read it just to find out asap.You think the death of the Ultimate Universe's flagship character wouldn't happen in his own book?

DoctorDoom

07-23-2009, 04:08 AM

I'd go with Loeb. And maybe pray.

Guapo Méndez

07-23-2009, 06:44 AM

Can you guys do better than Loeb or Liefeld?

¡A huevo!

.

Your Imaginary Pal

07-23-2009, 11:26 AM

It may have been mentioned by now, but it bears repeating.
Liefeld created Deadpool and Cable.

Deadpool.

So sure he's not the greatest artist or most savvy businessman, but he did create a very beloved character. Sure other people fleshed him out, but Liefeld is his daddy.

howyadoin

07-23-2009, 11:48 AM

It may have been mentioned by now, but it bears repeating.
Liefeld created Deadpool and Cable.Shit, if only he'd created Gambit, he'd have the trifecta of lame characters.

Your Imaginary Pal

07-23-2009, 12:24 PM

Sadly he's way over the limit one lame characters.
MLF(with Fourarm, the Reaper, Tempo and Short Pack)
Youngblood
Shatterstar. I wear a Boxing helmet and a cape and fight with double bladed swords.

You gotta love a guy that's just a kid at heart.

howyadoin

07-23-2009, 12:30 PM

You gotta love a guy that's just a kid at heart."Man-child" isn't a compliment.

Kees_L

07-23-2009, 01:06 PM

For me comic art will be having a lot to do with stylisation together with composition and perspective (even what seems to be called 'photo-realistic' art is stylized I would think).
Liefeld's stylisations more rather bother me than not. Rather in a big way I might add.

Loeb's writing I'm not familiar with. If it's very modern-y mainstream-y superhero-y I'll probably won't have read it.

And I often feel not very secure in how to effectively distill what a writer will have meant to a comic exactly. As a reader I am much drawn to comics with much art- or panel-based storytelling.
Comic writers I hold in high regard will have allowed or even invoked a lot of story-aspects to the artists. Or they are themselves the artists.
Examples of panel-based storytelling (setting up panels in a page for making timing-changes or moodswings or nifty plot-enfolding coolness) would be Bernie Krigstein, Mike Mignola and Mark Schultz. Geof Darrow, Frank Miller's better stuff and Charles Burns too I guess.
If Loeb could do that, than maybe I'd put my money toward him. Maybe.