Crazy public confrontations.

[Pink Bat Maxine]

I was just in a bitch fight (verbal, not physical) at a restaraunt with someone who threatened to throw his food on me if I 'kept hitting him'. I asked him how I had been hitting him and he said that my elbow had hit a chair next to him..... that was too far away from him to have then hit him OR to have hit the table he was sitting at. I asked what else, but he couldn't come up with any other examples. I told him that if he threw his soup on me, I would call the police, and he said 'I ASKED you not to sit on that side of your table (lie) and I'm calling the police RIGHT NOW because you're assaulting me (I wasn't, he didn't.)

Jesus fuck, this spoiled my mood. What the fuck?

After such an incident, I usually reel into this cycle of self-blame, and trying to figure how I'm really, really very bad and deserved it. But I didn't. I didn't touch something that touched something that touched something that touched him, even. I was only sitting on the side of a table that he somehow didn't want me sitting on.

Infuriating. GAAAAAAH!

[Free-Man]

I was just in a bitch fight (verbal, not physical) at a restaraunt with someone who threatened to throw his food on me if I 'kept hitting him'. I asked him how I had been hitting him and he said that my elbow had hit a chair next to him..... that was too far away from him to have then hit him OR to have hit the table he was sitting at. I asked what else, but he couldn't come up with any other examples. I told him that if he threw his soup on me, I would call the police, and he said 'I ASKED you not to sit on that side of your table (lie) and I'm calling the police RIGHT NOW because you're assaulting me (I wasn't, he didn't.)

Jesus fuck, this spoiled my mood. What the fuck?

After such an incident, I usually reel into this cycle of self-blame, and trying to figure how I'm really, really very bad and deserved it. But I didn't. I didn't touch something that touched something that touched something that touched him, even. I was only sitting on the side of a table that he somehow didn't want me sitting on.

Infuriating. GAAAAAAH!

3rd day of 8th grade, some kid called me a "gorilla" in front of my girlfriend and a number of kids. I challenged him to a fight after school, he agreed, then tried to bolt, and I had to chase him down and THEN kick the shit out of him.

[Reverend Smooth]

This guy wanted to pick a fight with someone. Unfortunately, it was you. It wasn't your fault and he's a douchenozzle, and he was making excuses to try to bully you.

You didn't play, so he blustered. You still didn't play, so he sissied out.

Good that you're not falling into that cycle; sometimes I figure it starts because there's no other target to attack and so one just attacks oneself, and that anger release is addictive even though it's harmful. (Endorphins, whatever.) Basically, the wayI snap myself out of it under circumstances like that is, I figure-- if someone did the same thing to a complete stranger or your loved one, would it be right? No? Then it's not ok to do it to you. Unworthy or not, randomly picking on people makes them an asshole whether you 'deserve' it or not.

[Arrogantcur]

I challenged him to a fight after school, he agreed, then tried to bolt, and I had to chase him down and THEN kick the shit out of him.

No you didn't. You had it won as soon as he tried to get away. Chasing him and beating him up was just overkill.

[Arrogantcur]

And as it happens, I had a crazy public confrontation with somebody just last night.

It involves talking about my BDSM life, but what the hell, at least half the people here know about that already. I was at a "munch," which is basically where a bunch of kinky people get together at a restaurant, and meet, and talk, and get to know one another. Here is the transcript of an e-mail I wrote to somebody describing what happened:


Ever since I met the guy he's often responded to something I said by saying something like "What are you TALKING about?" or rolling his eyes or something like that. The night of the munch, when I was talking to a group of people at the table we were sitting at, there were times when he told me to either stop talking because he wanted a short answer to a question instead of a long one, or registered impatience in kind of a rude way when I was taking a moment to think exactly how to say something.

Now, all of these things are things that are irritating but which I am capable of letting go without making a scene. But the capper was when he said that most of the people--either at the munch itself or in the Toronto BDSM community in general--were losers.

When he said that the first time, I wasn't sure if I'd heard right. I asked him who were losers. I think he said "everyone" or "almost everyone." I asked him "So let me get this straight, are you saying that most of the people in this room, possibly including me and her..." at which point I indicated my Mistress, "...are losers?"

He said "Not, not you." This wasn't much comfort to me.

The guy strikes me as somebody who used to be a schoolyard bully and who never grew out of it. Me, I used to have to deal with bullies in high school. I have a very low tolerance for them to this day. I don't much care for people who think of others as losers either, which is what bullies do; they hold people who never did anything bad to them in contempt because...the person may be a nerd, or the person may not make a lot of money, or something else that makes them think the person doesn't deserve respect.

Everybody deserves respect, except for those who treat others like crap for no reason at all.

So when I got up from the booth and he was kind of in my way, I pushed past him. He said "You could've said 'excuse me,'" but I didn't care. At that time, I wanted to send a message that I didn't like what he'd said about his contempt for so many peole who'd never done anything bad to him.

I had trouble not thinking about it, though. Frankly, I was fed up. I talked to my Mistress. I told her that I wanted to tell the guy that how he was acting was not cool. She didn't think it would be a good idea. She didn't think he would see the light or anything. But she told me that if I wanted to do it, it was my decision.

So I did it. I walked up, I asked him if he had a minute. I honestly don't know how my face looked or what my body language was like--I usually don't unless there's a mirror nearby--apart from the fact that I probably seemed angry. So then I told him that he was right, I could have said "excuse me," but I didn't because I was pissed. And I told him why I was pissed. I didn't like him calling the majority of people in the room "losers." He said he meant the majority of people in the BDSM community. I didn't think it made any difference. I said it was still judgmental as hell.

In response to me saying that it was still judgmental as hell, he said "So?"

I couldn't believe my ears. I don't think that the majority of people in the BDSM community are losers, and even if that were actually true I wouldn't hold it against them. I did think that the majority of people in the BDSM community were non-judgmental. That nobody, for instance, would look down on anybody else if they had a strange fetish, or if they were submissive rather than dominant, or whatever.

I said that the whole point of events like these is for people to go someplace where they WON'T be judged.

And that is when he started telling me that I needed to get out of his face, that I was cruising for a bruising, that he wanted me to go outside with him, etc.

I didn't get out of his face, but I wasn't going to get into a fight with him. I wanted to call him on his crap, because some people need to be called on their crap. As for a fistfight, there's two ways that could end. #1: I lose, and I'm injured. #2: I win, but I find myself in a holding cell because somebody called the cops, which I'm positive that they would if they saw a couple of people fighting on the sidewalk outside the pub. And unless the fight was completely one-sided, I'd also be injured in that event as well. It is a lose/lose situation.

My Mistress tried to pull me away at this point (she later told me that even though she was sure I wouldn't throw the first punch, she wasn't sure whether HE wouldn't, and she didn't want that to happen), and even though I normally will do what she wants I wasn't ready to be pulled away. I didn't want to give him the satisfaction. I said that I didn't have time for that bullshit, which was true. I did not have time or inclination to spend the night in a holding cell, or to go to a hospital, or whatever. He said "That's what I thought," as if that proves anything. If I were really scared to death of him as he may believe, I'd have never confronted him. If I were really scared to death of him, I would have backed away as soon as he indicated that he was willing to get physical. If he weren't scared of the consequences of hitting me right then and there, if he wanted to do it so badly, he would have. When you come right down to it, what's the big difference between a fight inside a pub and a fight out in the open on city property? Either way, there are undesirable consequences even if you win.

I said that I'd never heard of any fight happening that didn't result in an assault charge. Maybe I should've qualified that by saying "involving people over the age of 18." He's well over 18. He was acting like he was 15. Arguments, even heated ones, are legal. Fistfights aren't, unless you're in high school, or junior high, or whatever.

When I finally did walk away from him, I said that I'd rather be a loser than an asshole. That's true. A loser may not be considered cool, but a loser doesn't necessarily treat other people like crap. An asshole is somebody who treats other people like crap.

[Reverend Smooth]

What a cunt. He's not worth you going to jail over, no. Someday he'll probably just mouth off to someone with a shorter fuse, and might just get his ass kicked anyway.

[Arrogantcur]

What a cunt. He's not worth you going to jail over, no. Someday he'll probably just mouth off to someone with a shorter fuse, and might just get his ass kicked anyway.

Hopefully so, Smooth. Or he'll become a better person. (I think that I'm a better and more tolerant person than I was 10 years ago, so I know people can change.)

I wound up finding out the opinions of other people who know him afterwards and it turns out that they are mixed, at best.

As it turns out, both of us are supposed to be at this fetish party on Friday night. I'll see what happens. Hopefully it'll be uneventful.

[Free-Man]

And as it happens, I had a crazy public confrontation with somebody just last night.

It involves talking about my BDSM life, but what the hell, at least half the people here know about that already. I was at a "munch," which is basically where a bunch of kinky people get together at a restaurant, and meet, and talk, and get to know one another. Here is the transcript of an e-mail I wrote to somebody describing what happened:

FUCK HIM. He's probably so mouthy because he spends so much time gagged.

And I disagree about my fight. I HAD to kick his ass.

[Arrogantcur]

FUCK HIM. He's probably so mouthy because he spends so much time gagged.

I wonder if he's even able to find somebody to gag him; that is what he's apparently into, but one of the things I was told was that he'd alienated more than one dominant and that even the ones who hang out with him don't want to "play" with him.


And I disagree about my fight. I HAD to kick his ass.

I dunno, James. There were people whose asses I would've loved to kick back in school too, but they'd said or done a lot worse to me than call me a "gorilla" before I got to that point. Plus, these days I feel sorry for people if they're scared and begging for mercy or whatever.

[Karl O'Neill]

James freeman is hardcore:biggrin: :cool:

[Reverend Smooth]

Sometimes, if you don't definitively kick a schoolyard bully's ass, the rest of them will gangmaul you relentlessly.

At least, that's what it was at most of the schools I attended, though not the last one in another district.

You couldn't show any weakness or they'd just destroy you. I'm not even exaggerating, one of 'em, twice as big as me, got me behind the school, shoved me back into the wall with his body, put his hands around my neck, and choked me until I got a lucky shot in in the nuts; he wasn't stopping when I was gagging and strangling and seeing stars. Teachers never believed you, they said I made the bruises on my neck myself for attention.

Fortunately for me, I hit a really fast growth spurt over one summer.

I finally had to beat the bullies to a pulp until they stopped. When they started targeting the disabled kids next, I had to do it again. It didn't stop the verbal harassment, but it was only infrequently that I had to deal with being assaulted, and a reapplication of the lesson made it stop for a few months. x.x They did apply the same standard to the folks I had to beat up, though: 'You probably deserved it.' So no one ever got into trouble, but it was pretty damn Lord of the Flies.

Of course, adults get jailtime, so I'm hardly advocating turning this guy into paste. (Kids are on their own.)

[LtMarvel]

3rd day of 8th grade, some kid called me a "gorilla" in front of my girlfriend and a number of kids. I challenged him to a fight after school, he agreed, then tried to bolt, and I had to chase him down and THEN kick the shit out of him.
Duh...he called you a gorilla. You obviously outsized him!

[LtMarvel]

I was just in a bitch fight (verbal, not physical) at a restaraunt with someone who threatened to throw his food on me if I 'kept hitting him'. I asked him how I had been hitting him and he said that my elbow had hit a chair next to him..... that was too far away from him to have then hit him OR to have hit the table he was sitting at. I asked what else, but he couldn't come up with any other examples. I told him that if he threw his soup on me, I would call the police, and he said 'I ASKED you not to sit on that side of your table (lie) and I'm calling the police RIGHT NOW because you're assaulting me (I wasn't, he didn't.)

Jesus fuck, this spoiled my mood. What the fuck?

After such an incident, I usually reel into this cycle of self-blame, and trying to figure how I'm really, really very bad and deserved it. But I didn't. I didn't touch something that touched something that touched something that touched him, even. I was only sitting on the side of a table that he somehow didn't want me sitting on.

Infuriating. GAAAAAAH!
Sorry about that...come over to Earth-S and we'll treat you better!

[Arrogantcur]

Sometimes, if you don't definitively kick a schoolyard bully's ass, the rest of them will gangmaul you relentlessly.

At least, that's what it was at most of the schools I attended, though not the last one in another district.

You couldn't show any weakness or they'd just destroy you. I'm not even exaggerating, one of 'em, twice as big as me, got me behind the school, shoved me back into the wall with his body, put his hands around my neck, and choked me until I got a lucky shot in in the nuts; he wasn't stopping when I was gagging and strangling and seeing stars. Teachers never believed you, they said I made the bruises on my neck myself for attention.

Fortunately for me, I hit a really fast growth spurt over one summer.

I finally had to beat the bullies to a pulp until they stopped. When they started targeting the disabled kids next, I had to do it again. It didn't stop the verbal harassment, but it was only infrequently that I had to deal with being assaulted, and a reapplication of the lesson made it stop for a few months. x.x They did apply the same standard to the folks I had to beat up, though: 'You probably deserved it.' So no one ever got into trouble, but it was pretty damn Lord of the Flies.

Of course, adults get jailtime, so I'm hardly advocating turning this guy into paste. (Kids are on their own.)

Yeah, and even if you have to deal with verbal bullying like I did, that's a situation where as an adult you could go to the police and say you were being harassed, and they would do something about it.

I'm very sorry that you grew up dealing with that shit. I know that even though the constant harassment and taunting I went through fucked me up, compared to other kids I was lucky.

As a society, we talk about how kids need to be protected from all kinds of things. One thing kids really need to be protected from, but aren't? Is each other.

When I was in my late teens or early twenties and had taken tae kwon do for a while, I had a crazy idea about volunteering at my high school as a bodyguard for kids who got bullied, on my own time, for no compensation whatsoever. I mentioned the idea to a teacher I'd had a good relationship with, but I never discussed it with her in detail and ultimately I kind of abandoned the idea because, like I said, it was kind of crazy. I doubt they would've let me do it. But some kids do need protection.

I hope that talking about bullying isn't so far off the original topic that it's derailing the thread.

EDIT TO ADD: And James, that's why I'm not entirely comfortable with your story, because in my case I had to deal with people who were either the same size as me or bigger, whereas--as LtMarvel points out--this guy was smaller than you. With me, I had to put up with lots of insults and taunts and people making jokes at my expense every single day, but from what you said you only got insulted once, and it wasn't much of an insult. (Unless you're black; if you're black and he said you were a gorilla, then that's a lot more serious since racist fucks often call African-Americans "monkeys.")

I know exactly how much words and insults hurt, and I'm not saying that you should have ignored the fact that this guy insulted you. Back in the day I'd be able to ignore one, or two, or perhaps three, but after a certain point it gets to where you can't take it anymore. I tried to kick one guy's ass one time for that. I had one friend (one of a very small number) who was being insulted by a guy a little shorter than him, who just wouldn't stop, and my friend did kick that guy's ass. And I don't really blame him.

But when you come right down to it, it seems that you got into a fight with somebody who didn't have a chance against you and was smaller than you, you scared him shitless so he ran away and probably wouldn't have said anything to you after that, and you still chased him down and beat the hell out of him. I'm sorry, but I can't help but be bothered somewhat by that.

[Free-Man]

Duh...he called you a gorilla. You obviously outsized him!

I was certainly in better shape than him, but the gorilla remark was meant as a black dig.

[KevinTBrown]

And as it happens, I had a crazy public confrontation with somebody just last night.

It involves talking about my BDSM life, but what the hell, at least half the people here know about that already. I was at a "munch," which is basically where a bunch of kinky people get together at a restaurant, and meet, and talk, and get to know one another. Here is the transcript of an e-mail I wrote to somebody describing what happened:

You know, Cur, that's basically one of the reasons I stopped going to the Munches here in the Chicago area. Far too many judgmental people. Plus the cliques.

You were a hell of a lot more calm than I would have been.... but that's the Dom in me. :wink:

I applaud you for doing what you did.

[Free-Man]

You know, Cur, that's basically one of the reasons I stopped going to the Munches here in the Chicago area. Far too many judgmental people. Plus the cliques.

You were a hell of a lot more calm than I would have been.... but that's the Dom in me. :wink:

I applaud you for doing what you did.

A little OT, but where exactly are these "Muches" in Chicago? And do you have to bring a partner, or is it like a key party?

[KevinTBrown]

A little OT, but where exactly are these "Muches" in Chicago? And do you have to bring a partner, or is it like a key party?

It's been many years since I've gone to one, but there used to be one on Friday nights at Four Points in Schiller Park. Usually meeting in one of the restaurants or bars.

And it does help to have a partner, as well as probably knowing someone there.

[Arrogantcur]

You were a hell of a lot more calm than I would have been.... but that's the Dom in me. :wink:

I applaud you for doing what you did.

Thanks Kevin. The sub part of me only comes out in certain environments, with certain people, under certain conditions, blah blah blah. The rest of the time I try not to let people walk all over me, because that's what people did when I was a kid and I don't like it. I'm unwilling to give up as much control as some Doms I've met wanted me to, and that's sometimes resulted in us deciding that we weren't compatible in that way. Fortunately I've met a woman who's patient and who treats me in a way that makes me want to treat her like a queen and do things that'll please her, and who's willing to make compromises, won't try to push me into doing anything that I really have an aversion to. That's the best way to be a Dom, I think.


A little OT, but where exactly are these "Muches" in Chicago? And do you have to bring a partner, or is it like a key party?

Well, if they're like the ones here in Toronto, somebody reserves a room in a restaurant for a private party and posts the date and time online. People read about it and show up if they want to. For these things you dress as you normally would in your day to day life, as opposed to wearing latex or leather or some other kind of fetish wear.

The one I go to works like this: at the beginning, everybody sits down and orders something to eat or drink, and people talk to the people at their table. Then after an hour or so, the host gets up and gives a speech about a certain topic, and then people get the chance to discuss what she said in the speech and ask questions. After that, everybody's encouraged to stand up and mingle, meet new people, say hi to people they already know, maybe exchange contact information if two of them like one another.

The first time I went, I went by myself, and I don't think they'll turn you away from very many of these things if you show up alone. For the last three months I've been going with my partner.

[LtMarvel]

I was certainly in better shape than him, but the gorilla remark was meant as a black dig.
Ah...can you retroactively dedicate one of the kicks or punches for me?

[Free-Man]

Thanks Kevin. The sub part of me only comes out in certain environments, with certain people, under certain conditions, blah blah blah. The rest of the time I try not to let people walk all over me, because that's what people did when I was a kid and I don't like it. I'm unwilling to give up as much control as some Doms I've met wanted me to, and that's sometimes resulted in us deciding that we weren't compatible in that way. Fortunately I've met a woman who's patient and who treats me in a way that makes me want to treat her like a queen and do things that'll please her, and who's willing to make compromises, won't try to push me into doing anything that I really have an aversion to. That's the best way to be a Dom, I think.



Well, if they're like the ones here in Toronto, somebody reserves a room in a restaurant for a private party and posts the date and time online. People read about it and show up if they want to. For these things you dress as you normally would in your day to day life, as opposed to wearing latex or leather or some other kind of fetish wear.

The one I go to works like this: at the beginning, everybody sits down and orders something to eat or drink, and people talk to the people at their table. Then after an hour or so, the host gets up and gives a speech about a certain topic, and then people get the chance to discuss what she said in the speech and ask questions. After that, everybody's encouraged to stand up and mingle, meet new people, say hi to people they already know, maybe exchange contact information if two of them like one another.

The first time I went, I went by myself, and I don't think they'll turn you away from very many of these things if you show up alone. For the last three months I've been going with my partner.

Sounds like a blast. Do you have to be 21 to get into one of these things?:frown:

[Arrogantcur]

Sounds like a blast. Do you have to be 21 to get into one of these things?:frown:

I don't think so...maybe for some you do. I've never asked or conducted a survey of people's ages or anything. It probably depends on the host.

[pariah-1972]

I had a guy get in my face at the bus station and try to start a fight with me (twice) because he thought i was staring at him or something .
Frazzled me so bad i got on the wrong bus.
Kind of put me off taking the bus since then.

[Free-Man]

I had a guy get in my face at the bus station and try to start a fight with me (twice) because he thought i was staring at him or something .
Frazzled me so bad i got on the wrong bus.
Kind of put me off taking the bus since then.

I hate people like that. I too often see these people who are so wired up that they get crazy when someone is "Staring" at them.

[pariah-1972]

I hate people like that. I too often see these people who are so wired up that they get crazy when someone is "Staring" at them.I figure he either thought i was gay and i was checking him out or he was on drugs ... or maybe both?

I usually don't like for people to get in my face, but maybe i'm getting old but i just didn't feel like getting into a fight with some random guy i don't know at the bus station.

[sunshinegirl]

I hate people like that. I too often see these people who are so wired up that they get crazy when someone is "Staring" at them.

That's why I wear sunglasses. So I can stare people down and look them straight in the eyes without them knowing I'm really looking directly at them. :redface:

[Free-Man]

That's why I wear sunglasses. So I can stare people down and look them straight in the eyes without them knowing I'm really looking directly at them. :redface:

If only....:tongue:
I used to have a girlfriend who lived in Logan's Square, which is a very rough latin neighborhood in Chicago. Everytime I'd walk to her house, I'd ALWAYS be confronted by these random wangsta-ass kids who would just yell out stuff to the effect of "The fuck you lookin at?", "You got a problem son?", and my personal favorite "Yo, something funny in this direction homes?" :rolleyes:

It's like all these kids would somehow think that they'd gain a boost in street cred by yelling at the first black guy they saw.

[sunshinegirl]

I hear ya. Like I said, the sunglasses are great, but I'm at the point where I don't really care if people know I'm looking at them-- 'cause I *am*!

[Christopher Cross Is God]

I hate people like that. I too often see these people who are so wired up that they get crazy when someone is "Staring" at them.

I've noticed idiots like that tend to be the ones who stare at people more than anyone else.

[pariah-1972]

It's funny at first i thought maybe it was my fault but when he came back 6 mins later and tried to start the fight again i knew there was something wrong with him.
I should have told security but i just wanted to get the fuck out of there in case he had a fun or a knife.

[Arrogantcur]

I should have told security but i just wanted to get the fuck out of there in case he had a gun or a knife.

Good idea.

Have you, or anybody else reading this thread for that matter, ever seen "Fight Club"? There is one part where everybody in Fight Club is given the assignment of going out and getting into a fight with a total stranger, IIRC so that they could then see how great fighting was and be convinced to join the club. But the problem, as Ed Norton's voiceover says, is this:

"Now this is not as easy as it sounds. Most people, normal people, will do just about anything to avoid a fight."

What followed was a pretty humorous montage of the different club members trying to provoke strangers into hitting them and not having much luck.

But it's true. Most normal people, as in people who aren't fucked in the head? They don't go around hoping to pick fights.

[pariah-1972]

Good idea.

Have you, or anybody else reading this thread for that matter, ever seen "Fight Club"? There is one part where everybody in Fight Club is given the assignment of going out and getting into a fight with a total stranger, IIRC so that they could then see how great fighting was and be convinced to join the club. But the problem, as Ed Norton's voiceover says, is this:

"Now this is not as easy as it sounds. Most people, normal people, will do just about anything to avoid a fight."

What followed was a pretty humorous montage of the different club members trying to provoke strangers into hitting them and not having much luck.

But it's true. Most normal people, as in people who aren't fucked in the head? They don't go around hoping to pick fights.I think i saw like the last 30 mins of that movie not too long ago and i was really impressed with what i saw.
I will have to go rent it one of these days.

[Sabrinaset]

I once slapped a woman on the face and across the room for suggesting I was not a peaceful girl! :eek:

[Reverend Smooth]

I just pictured your hand shooting out of your sleeve Inspector Gadget style and smiting them IN THE FACE.