Which of these is the biggest failure?

[DeadXMan]

well what is it

Brru's Time gun
Millar's FF or
Fraction's Uncanny?

[Leocomix]

The time gun, no contest.

I don't follow Uncanny so it's probably worse but a bad x-men title is something I've come to expect in the last 20 years.
FF has good ideas mixed with bad. The time gun is so disappointing.

[striderhirryu2]

Is it too early to vote for Fraction's take on the Dark Avengers?

[Guest_1001]

Other: This thread.

Seriously, we don't even know anything about the "Time Gun" yet. Why is it even an option?

[DeadXMan]

Other: This thread.

Seriously, we don't even know anything about the "Time Gun" yet. Why is it even an option?

because Bru brought back one of the sworn to be dead for 60 yrs in the most believable way possible and the guy he killed two years ago get a shot by a gun that puts him out side of time.

That's like making the third Summers brother to be no one we've heard of, and killing of a beloved characters to make said brother look like a bad ass.

[worstblogever]

Other: This thread.

Seriously, we don't even know anything about the "Time Gun" yet. Why is it even an option?

Seconded, good sir.

[killerbass]

I am disappointed by poorly conceived polls.

--Tom

[Westgarth J]

None of the above. There are other things about the Marvel U that disappoint me more, but speaking as a non X-fan, I thought what I've read of Fraction's take has been pretty good. Time Gun maybe sucks as a McGuffin, but that's all it is - a means to an end, in this case a Vonnegut-inspired riff that most will only know from recent episodes of Lost.
I have no problems with Miller's FF - quite the opposite: most were bitching that he made Doom a crony of the MOD, but the fantasy-sequence of Doom's idealised vision of the future pissed all over the one-dimensional sneering panto villain he'd become post-Waid. Doom has two dimensions again, and that's good news for me.

You should add a fourth option: Marvel willingly destroying the North American comic book industry for short-term gains through the direct market. I'd vote that as a failure (although they have made money off it, so it's a subjective view).

[TOAA]

From those three Time Gun. I`m not reading X-men or FF so couldn`t care less about them. As for others... there too many to list.

[RolandJP]

None of the above. There are other things about the Marvel U that disappoint me more, but speaking as a non X-fan, I thought what I've read of Fraction's take has been pretty good. Time Gun maybe sucks as a McGuffin, but that's all it is - a means to an end, in this case a Vonnegut-inspired riff that most will only know from recent episodes of Lost.
I have no problems with Miller's FF - quite the opposite: most were bitching that he made Doom a crony of the MOD, but the fantasy-sequence of Doom's idealised vision of the future pissed all over the one-dimensional sneering panto villain he'd become post-Waid. Doom has two dimensions again, and that's good news for me.

You should add a fourth option: Marvel willingly destroying the North American comic book industry for short-term gains through the direct market. I'd vote that as a failure (although they have made money off it, so it's a subjective view).


To be honest. Paper publication is a dead medium or at least its presence will be lessened. Similar to hte shrinking usage of paper money. Most purchases are done with plastic cards. So it will be with books to digital content. Yeah, I know...people have called the death of books before, and it hasnt happened. Yet!


Anyways, my problem with Millar is all of his books focus more on the villains, or brutality of the after effects of villains than the heroes themselves. Marvel should have given him Super villain team up. So he could go hog wild. Its hard watching him strain to write the heroes when I know hes just filling panel spaces till he gets to the bad guys.

[rwsmith]

The time gun. Hands down.

[NickFury90]

Anyways, my problem with Millar is all of his books focus more on the villains, or brutality of the after effects of villains than the heroes themselves. Marvel should have given him Super villain team up. So he could go hog wild. Its hard watching him strain to write the heroes when I know hes just filling panel spaces till he gets to the bad guys.

Uh...the Ultimates?

Anyway, IDK was God Bru was thinking with a motha ****in' TIME GUN, but he better make it work.

[Guest_1001]

because Bru brought back one of the sworn to be dead for 60 yrs in the most believable way possible and the guy he killed two years ago get a shot by a gun that puts him out side of time.

That's like making the third Summers brother to be no one we've heard of, and killing of a beloved characters to make said brother look like a bad ass.

But again, you don't know anything about it. Do you judge a movie on the first ten minutes? Part of the point of #1 of Captain America: Reborn was that we don't know everything about the gun yet. Brubaker's going to come back to it, given Hank Pym's statement of wanting Reed Richards to check the bullets. There's more to come. The fact that you seem to think this is a failure stems only from you not knowing the full story.

[Nefarius]

I have no problems with Miller's FF - quite the opposite: most were bitching that he made Doom a crony of the MOD, but the fantasy-sequence of Doom's idealised vision of the future pissed all over the one-dimensional sneering panto villain he'd become post-Waid. Doom has two dimensions again, and that's good news for me.


It's not only "Vaderising" Doom,the story has many weaknesses.What MOD teached Doom(considering that Doom knew science and a little bit of Magic before his accident)? Why Doom,a man who prefers order instead of chaos would choose to had as a master a guy who's only about mindless destruction?Doom,who manage to beat Mephisto in his yard, who stole the powers of beings like the Silver Surfer,Galactus and the Beyonder,why he didn't have a back-up plan to face his "master" in case he decided to betray him.The whole story is so flawed,it makes OMD looking like Citizen Kane.

Some people(including myself) may didn't like Waid's approach of Doom in Unthinkable,but in this story,Doom was more in character than Millar's story.

[NickFury90]

Some people(including myself) may didn't like Waid's approach of Doom in Unthinkable

WHA!?!? I loooove that arc.

[Westgarth J]

MOD isn't about mindless destruction - everything he does is for revenge against Reed Richards, and on his way to becoming the one to humble Richards, Doom sought out the one man who'd teach him how to do it. As now established, Doom refers to MOD as 'master' only out of respect, not as an admission of inferiority.

The only complaint I'd have against this story is that it's roughly the fourth time I've read it from Mark Miller - there are even moments in the story that are more or less identical to scenes Miller wrote for the Authority and Robo Hunter about time/dimension-hopping super-genocidal villains.

[Nefarius]

WHA!?!? I loooove that arc.

As a story,it's good but i didn't like the direction that Doom took in this story.

[Westgarth J]

To be honest. Paper publication is a dead medium or at least its presence will be lessened. Similar to hte shrinking usage of paper money. Most purchases are done with plastic cards. So it will be with books to digital content. Yeah, I know...people have called the death of books before, and it hasnt happened. Yet.

People called the death of radio, television and cinema before, too.
Are you seriously suggesting a correlation between the decline of the use of paper money and the decline of the of the printed word? As for the decline of the printed medium - books sell plenty, and you'd be hard pressed to find even a technophile who's abandoned the printed word entirely. Will you be taking your laptop or digital readers into the bath with you? Can you say you haven't heard a single person anywhere say they'll never go for digital copies of comics? Even leaving consumer choice aside, the bulk of Marvel's comic revenue comes from sales of books collecting issues of comics under a single cover, which is the fastest-growing section of the book market, and Gears of War - a not-great comic - sold around half a million copies by distributing to videogame stores rather than exclusively LCS.

[Personamanx]

Well all three are pretty much a matter of opinion.

[The Shadow]

You should add a fourth option: Marvel willingly destroying the North American comic book industry for short-term gains through the direct market.

That's hardly ONLY Marvel though. And the direct market has been around since the late 70's.

[Elijah Dexan]

I'm sure everyone hated the idea of Bucky returning at first but it seemed to turn out fairly well.

[FlintEastwood]

All three of those runs are have yet to finish. I refuse to pass judgement on something until its finished.

You can't consider LeBron James' basketball career a failure because he hasn't won an NBA title yet. You can't declare Obama's presidency a failure or success because it isn't over. And as such, you shouldn't make an assumption about comic books that have unfinished arcs.

Reborn is only one issue in. Millar's FF arc has yet to finish. Fraction is in the middle of the Dark Reign arc. Wait until it's finished and then start complaining.

[Westgarth J]

All three of those runs are have yet to finish. I refuse to pass judgement on something until its finished.

I see where this argument is coming from, but it's incorrect in that readers of these comics are paying for installments of a serialised narrative and not the entirety of the story - if the installments are failures, then they're perfectly within their rights as consumers to view the story as a failure, especially if they choose not to buy further episodes. You could argue that there's a saving throw in the last chapter, but that doesn't really excuse the buildup being substandard.

(And I'll point out again that I'm enjoying the mentioned stories)

[Brother Justin Crowe]

If Reborn turns out to be Cap's equivalent of OMD, the time gun, no other options.

Then I'll drop Cap and never look back.

[SevereTireDamage]

Millar/Hitch's FF hasn't been too bad. I never really go into FF before and started with his run and it wasn't too bad. Still trying to figure out how Galactus ended up dead or whatever. The last story arc (Doom's Master bs) is pretty interesting. As long as Doom comes back and whoops some serious ass, I will be happy.

The time traveling gun with Captain America is weak. Seriously, why would Red Skull who has been trying to kill Capt for all this time...kill him and then decide to bring him back.

Uncanny X-Men is on the rise since issue 500.

Exiles, now that is some bad shit.

X-Men Forever is iffy too, can't judge it yet b/c it is two issues in.

[Rurik]

because Bru brought back one of the sworn to be dead for 60 yrs in the most believable way possible and the guy he killed two years ago get a shot by a gun that puts him out side of time.

That's like making the third Summers brother to be no one we've heard of, and killing of a beloved characters to make said brother look like a bad ass.

Wait, please tell me that's a joke, they really went with such a lame excuse to bring Cap back to life? :confused:

[daveageallen]

dude one issue came out so far of reborn. one. and you are all calling it a flop. how premature is that? its one issue, yeah they could have done it in cap. and not a mini but the mini makes it more special. and the gun is just a new super farout science fiction piece like hell the cosmic cube, gaungtlet, caps super serum and everything else in comics. this could amazing but you are blowing it off already and most people didnt even buy it but read spoilers. its a good issue, very solid and engrossing. wait till is over before you say its the worst thing in the world.

like everyone said about dissesembled, bucky's return, bucky cap,and everyother idea that is in comics from the past 5 years

[mournblade94]

You forgot to place, "the all of these stories are good" choice.

SO far I think the stories within the last two years, are the strongest Marvel has had since the 80's.

[daveageallen]

You forgot to place, "the all of these stories are good" choice.

SO far I think the stories within the last two years, are the strongest Marvel has had since the 80's.

AGREED. they know what they want and have stable charcter develpoment even with diffrent writers crossingover characters.

[Rurik]

If they're really using some kind of lame excuse about the gun that killed Cap displacing him from the time stream some how, then I have to go with the Time Gun, I don't care how talented a writer is, nobody can make something like that work without sucking, not the way things played out, he died in a hospital, he was buried, there was a freaking body that was buried. If the body had disappeared that would be one thing, but the way the story was written, no.

[Karl O'Neill]

Millar has and always will be a hack in my eyes.

The time gun probably murdered brubakers run on captain america.

I love uncanny x-men. fraction is the man.

[Hrist]

Other: This thread.

Seriously, we don't even know anything about the "Time Gun" yet. Why is it even an option?

For serious. And for everyone citing Bucky's resurrection as more believable, it took 12 issues and the cosmic cube to pull it off. At least wait for the plot to explain itself, because that gun is the exact same one they show in issue #25, you know, the same issue where he died in a hospital and there was a body, etc. I am pretty sure Brubaker knows Steve left a body and will explain all of that, considering he planned out the death and the resurrection.

[Rurik]

Just because something is planned out doesn't make it less lame. I'm sure Hollywood had planned to make a third Grudge movie way in advance, but it's still not a good movie.

[Hrist]

Just because something is planned out doesn't make it less lame. I'm sure Hollywood had planned to make a third Grudge movie way in advance, but it's still not a good movie.

But you haven't even read the comic, so what do you know?

And movie sequels work way differently than comic book plots, anyway.

[Karl O'Neill]

Just because something is planned out doesn't make it less lame. I'm sure Hollywood had planned to make a third Grudge movie way in advance, but it's still not a good movie.

Agreed.

Judging by the negative fan and review reactions so far it is easy to see that people don't care if it is planned.

They don't have to like or love it.

[Hrist]

Agreed.

Judging by the negative fan and review reactions so far it is easy to see that people don't care if it is planned.

They don't have to like or love it.

I never said they had to like it. I'm not sure if I like it. But people reacted the same way when they killed Steve or when they brought back Bucky, or when they showed those first few pictures of Bucky as Captain America. People heard one sentence, or saw how ridiculously shiny that costume was, and they flipped out, causing other people on the internet to flip out, causing everyone to lose perspective, but when all was said and done those arcs were really good.

I'm at least gonna wait for the actual explanation before running around screaming TIME BULLETS!! Other people can do what they want, but I think it's silly to write something off without getting the whole story, especially given Captain America's generally ridiculous plots so far.

[Iron-boy]

For serious. And for everyone citing Bucky's resurrection as more believable, it took 12 issues and the cosmic cube to pull it off. At least wait for the plot to explain itself, because that gun is the exact same one they show in issue #25, you know, the same issue where he died in a hospital and there was a body, etc. I am pretty sure Brubaker knows Steve left a body and will explain all of that, considering he planned out the death and the resurrection.

That cause no one gave a rat-but about Bucky, so nobody cared how he came back or if he did.

[Hrist]

That cause no one gave a rat-but about Bucky, so nobody cared how he came back or if he did.

There are plenty of people who still think it's a huge blasphemy that he got brought back. He was one of the dead characters who always stayed dead, so while people didn't care about him as a character, they still cared that he was getting resurrected. John Byrne threw a big fit about it on his forums, plenty of other people did too.

[Guest_1001]

I never said they had to like it. I'm not sure if I like it. But people reacted the same way when they killed Steve or when they brought back Bucky, or when they showed those first few pictures of Bucky as Captain America. People heard one sentence, or saw how ridiculously shiny that costume was, and they flipped out, causing other people on the internet to flip out, causing everyone to lose perspective, but when all was said and done those arcs were really good.

I'm at least gonna wait for the actual explanation before running around screaming TIME BULLETS!! Other people can do what they want, but I think it's silly to write something off without getting the whole story, especially given Captain America's generally ridiculous plots so far.

Very well said. That sums it up perfectly, in my opinion. :smile:

[Rurik]

At least Bucky they made sure not to leave a body. That's kind of an important thing to do if you plan to bring them back from the "dead" unless you plan to resort to using "magic." Without a body you can at least argue they never actually died to begin with, it's a bit harder to do that when there were multiple witnesses that saw them die, and a body that's rotting in the ground in a hero cemetery.

[Guest_1001]

At least Bucky they made sure not to leave a body. That's kind of an important thing to do if you plan to bring them back from the "dead" unless you plan to resort to using "magic." Without a body you can at least argue they never actually died to begin with, it's a bit harder to do that when there were multiple witnesses that saw them die, and a body that's rotting in the ground in a hero cemetery.

Actually a body that's somewhere in the depths of the Arctic but your point is well made. Even so, you still don't know everything about the story. How do you know that it won't be explained? I could understand if these arguments were being made after Reborn was over but don't you think you're jumping the gun just a little bit?

[Rurik]

Perhaps, but speaking as a writer, I can't see any way you can bring Cap back from the dead that won't push the suspension of disbelief well past the breaking point, and yes, I mean even by super hero standards. Not to mention the fact that I'm a firm believer that you should generally avoid bringing characters back from the dead, it's just not good story telling, and especially when it has to rely on things like magic bullets that knock people out of time and space for two years, then they magically come back to life, despite their body being dead and buried, and most likely worm chow by then. It's even worse of the character died a really heroic death saving their friends or something, it takes all meaning out of the sacrifice if they just come back to life every time, and it takes all meaning out of stories like Cap's death. I mean, really, how emotional can you really make a story if everyone knows he'll just come back to life? "Oh no! Captain America got shot, stabbed, set on fire, disemboweled, poisoned, decapitated, and blown up! Oh wait, he's a super hero, those guys never stay dead, well, unless they die from cancer that is, he'll be good as new in a few weeks. Come on gang, who wants doughnuts?"

[Hrist]

especially when it has to rely on things like magic bullets that knock people out of time and space for two years, then they magically come back to life, despite their body being dead and buried, and most likely worm chow by then.

That isn't even what happened.

And the stories that came out of Steve being dead are still in effect. Because Steve was dead, the MU changed. The Avengers had to figure out what to do without him, Tony got to cry a bit, Sharon went through the worst months of her life, Bucky reformed, and actually started talking to people instead of hiding in graveyards all the time. None of that gets undone, because what those characters felt was genuine. And nothing would have unfolded that way if everyone didn't believe Steve was dead. You couldn't have gotten the same thing if he was in jail, or depowered, or in a coma.

And new stories that come out of this-- how can Sharon go back to Steve knowing that she was the one who shot him? Even if he winds up alive after all of this, their relationship has fundamentally changed. What will Bucky do? He's made himself a place in the world by trying to do what Steve would want. If he doesn't have to do that anymore, what is there for him in the present? We don't even know what will happen to Steve at the end of this mini, really, if he'll be in any shape to do much of anything. I mean, this could result in something as stupid as Steve forgetting everything that's happened to him since 1945, or it could result in an interesting new status quo, I don't really know yet.

But, I mean, we saw the Red Skull die, get shot, leave a body, in issue #1 of this series, and no one complained that he was actually alive after all this time. (And he used a Cosmic Cube to stick himself in the body of another man, so it wasn't exactly realistic.) Part of the reason is, I think, we just expect supervillains to come back from certain death, because this is what they do. It's also because the Skull's death wasn't that big a deal, etc, etc. Certainly no one notified real-world newspapers. But the amount of hype surrounding a story shouldn't do anything to how we read it, ideally.

I guess, to me, yeah, there are problems with the revolving door of death, and certainly there's never going to be a real Sydney Carton esque moment in mainstream superhero comics because the fantastical trappings mean the dead come back to life all the time. But we knew that already. That damage is already done, there's no point in pretending death is sacred when it hasn't been for a very long time. Because there are good death stories to be told, and there are good resurrection stories as well. And if some arbitrary rule, like "nobody comes back from the dead" is going to prevent one good story from being written, I'm against it, even if it means dozens of crappy stories are going to show up too.

[Rurik]

I'm not talking about emotional for the characters, although even then after you've seen a dozen or so allies die and then come back to life a little while later you'd stop worrying about someone, or even yourself, being killed since as long as they have super powers you know they'll just get better as if death were no worse than the common cold, I'm talking about emotional for the reader. How emotional can you really feel when your favorite hero dies if you know they'll just spring right back to life? And if they're a huge character like Hulk, Spider-Man, or Wolverine, there's no question that they'll come back to life because Marvel isn't going to throw away a huge money maker like them. Can resurrection stories be good? Yes, but they need to serve a purpose, and let's face it, there are only two real purposes that one can see for Cap coming back from the dead, the first and most likely being profit. The second, is for Cap to come back to bitch slap Osborn, and set the Marvel universe right, the heroes would be heroes again, the villains would be villains, and order would be restored, and as much as I'd like to see Marvel return to this, bringing Cap back for this purpose would be incredibly bad story telling.

[Hrist]

How emotional can you really feel when your favorite hero dies if you know they'll just spring right back to life? And if they're a huge character like Hulk, Spider-Man, or Wolverine, there's no question that they'll come back to life because Marvel isn't going to throw away a huge money maker like them. Can resurrection stories be good? Yes, but they need to serve a purpose, and let's face it, there are only two real purposes that one can see for Cap coming back from the dead, the first and most likely being profit. The second, is for Cap to come back to bitch slap Osborn, and set the Marvel universe right, the heroes would be heroes again, the villains would be villains, and order would be restored, and as much as I'd like to see Marvel return to this, bringing Cap back for this purpose would be incredibly bad story telling.

But eliciting an emotional response from the readers isn't (always) what storytelling is about. And a lot of people whose favorite characters are killed off want them to come back to life. Just look around for Make Mine Mar-Vell. So I'm not sure what the point is, there.

I outlined a bunch of stories that will probably happen now that Steve is coming back, and none of them involve an easy "now the MU status quo is restored." So, no, I can see way more than two purposes, besides, of course, the main reason characters come back from the dead: so that there can be more stories told with them. Criticizing Marvel for trying to sell comics, is, as always, kind of a strange thing to do.

[Rurik]

Wanting them to come back is natural, it's simply part of human nature. I want desperately for my father to come back from the coma he's in right now, but it's not very likely to happen, if he did though it would be one of the happiest moments of my life right now. That's what a good resurrection story should be like, it should be something that's unpredictable, something you had hoped for, but knew that it would likely never happen, and then when it does happen, it's incredible. Similarly a good death story should be just as unpredictable, for instance Captain Marvel and Captain America, when you think of super hero deaths, you think of them jumping in front of friend, or even a complete stranger, to shield them from harm at the cost of their own life, but you never think of them dying from something like cancer, or being killed by a sniper, that made them great death stories. The difference is, Captain Marvel's death remains great, due to the fact that he remains dead. Captain America's death however, was ruined from the start, because we all knew he'd come back to life some how.

[Hrist]

Wanting them to come back is natural, it's simply part of human nature. I want desperately for my father to come back from the coma he's in right now, but it's not very likely to happen, if he did though it would be one of the happiest moments of my life right now. That's what a good resurrection story should be like, it should be something that's unpredictable, something you had hoped for, but knew that it would likely never happen, and then when it does happen, it's incredible. Similarly a good death story should be just as unpredictable, for instance Captain Marvel and Captain America, when you think of super hero deaths, you think of them jumping in front of friend, or even a complete stranger, to shield them from harm at the cost of their own life, but you never think of them dying from something like cancer, or being killed by a sniper, that made them great death stories. The difference is, Captain Marvel's death remains great, due to the fact that he remains dead. Captain America's death however, was ruined from the start, because we all knew he'd come back to life some how.

I treat the deaths of real people and fictional characters pretty differently.

And the rest of your argument translates to predictable = bad, when that's never been true. A story is a lot more than its beginning and its ending, and knowing where you're going to wind up doesn't detract from the fun of getting there unless you let it.

[Rurik]

I've never read any death or resurrection story that was both predictable as well as good.

[Hrist]

I've never read any death or resurrection story that was both predictable as well as good.

Uh, Hamlet?

[Will.S]

This poll is ridiculous.

[TOAA]

The difference is, Captain Marvel's death remains great, due to the fact that he remains dead. Captain America's death however, was ruined from the start, because we all knew he'd come back to life some how.

I wonder. Did readers back then didn`t think Marvel will be back in few years?

I treat the deaths of real people and fictional characters pretty differently.

Then any action taken by fictional characters becomes pointless, imo.

[Rurik]

Uh, Hamlet?

I meant serious ones, not comedies.

[Hrist]

Then any action taken by fictional characters becomes pointless, imo.

Why? And who says there needs to be a point?

I really don't think I'm damning the art by reacting differently to the death of the Flash than the death of my grandmother. And not just because one of them came back.

What I meant was, no one goes in to watch Hamlet and seriously thinks he'll survive the play. That doesn't mean Hamlet isn't worth seeing. As for coming back to life, hey, Jesus did it, and he said he was going to beforehand, and that story has had more impact on Western civilization than just about any other. Seriously, foreshadowing doesn't make a story bad, and plot twists don't make a story good.

[Omega Alpha]

All of three sucks, but Fraction's run in Uncanny is just on a different level of bad.

[paulski]

Time gun? What the hell?

I was going to vote Millar's FF but it sounds like Bru's taken some of Morrison's mind altering substances... :eek:

[LungerTony]

The time gun sounds terrible, BUT it is way too early to make a judgement on it.

I voted Uncanny X-Men. It certainly is a huge failure to me. Fraction wrote a lot of good stuff before UXM, and the way UXM reads...how it tries to impress the reader on how hip, tolerant, cool, and environmental the X-Men and San Fran are...it makes it an even bigger, lamer failure.

Other options should have been:
"An attempt at an equal representation of boths sides of the SHRA conflict in Civil War."

"Reveals of sleeper Srulls in Secret Invasion - Spider-woman...your kidding right, that's it?"

[Will.S]

Other options should have been:
"An attempt at an equal representation of boths sides of the SHRA conflict in Civil War."

"Reveals of sleeper Srulls in Secret Invasion - Spider-woman...your kidding right, that's it?"
Yeah those are certainly more interesting.

[Simon Garth]

Millar's Fantastic Four has been a monstrous kind of bad - really supremely awful. I don't know what has happened to him - Ultimates was so good, Civil War was OK, but this has just been pitiful: FF v some nonentities from the future? FF v something from Where Monsters Roam? Doom bowing before anybody? Utter crap.

Only Avengers / Invaders is keeping this away from being worst Marvel run of the year, and at least I wasn't expecting much from that. Hugely disappointed in this run

[rulkr00lz]

millars ff is the BOMB. xmen is okay and the time gun to bring cap back is AWESOME BECAUSE CAP IS BACK WOOOOO

id say 60s crap is worse

[Comet Man]

Millar's Fantastic Four has been a monstrous kind of bad - really supremely awful. I don't know what has happened to him - Ultimates was so good, Civil War was OK, but this has just been pitiful: FF v some nonentities from the future? FF v something from Where Monsters Roam? Doom bowing before anybody? Utter crap.

Only Avengers / Invaders is keeping this away from being worst Marvel run of the year, and at least I wasn't expecting much from that. Hugely disappointed in this run

I totally agree with you, and that's why I'm so looking forward to Hickman, and I haven't even touched Fantastic Force.

[mournblade94]

Millar's Fantastic Four has been a monstrous kind of bad - really supremely awful. I don't know what has happened to him - Ultimates was so good, Civil War was OK, but this has just been pitiful: FF v some nonentities from the future? FF v something from Where Monsters Roam? Doom bowing before anybody? Utter crap.

Only Avengers / Invaders is keeping this away from being worst Marvel run of the year, and at least I wasn't expecting much from that. Hugely disappointed in this run

I just starting reading FF. FF was really the only marvel book I never read ona consistent basis, for some reason. My friends all read it, so I read their copies usually. Now I started picking it up. I did not like to see the Doom Master story line, but I don't know enough of what is going on to pass judgement.

I mean Doom is manipulating Loki (I think anyway, I do not think it is vice versa), I cannot see him bowing to some power with teeth like the Mouth of Sauron.

I do think the rest of the titles are excellent. I like the Cap reborn (maybe I just accept more in comics, I mean Hulk can outpull tectonic forces), and I think fraction is doing well on Xmen.

Maybe I just have too much hate for the 4th edition of D&D to hate anything in comic books:biggrin:

[Rey.Leopard]

The time gun. It is just doesn't make for a clever comeback.

[DeadXMan]

bump since Fraction is off X-men

[DeadXMan]

Uh, Hamlet?

...when did Hamlet get resurrected?

[Handsome One]

I'm not voting in the poll since I haven't read the other series, but my choice would be Fraction's Uncanny. Not only was it awful and destructive to the characters and to the other books since it was the flagship of the franchise, but Fraction didn't even take the time to finish his run; he abandoned it in mid-arc for Kieron Gillen to finish exploring his dubious ideas.

I say that as a critic, of course. As a reader I was overjoyed that a good writer had taken over as soon as possible.

[Rasputin9977]

Fraction's X-Men. Seriously have the X-Men been this bad before? Nope. Just another reason for Marvel to reboot their universe.

[Hrist]

...when did Hamlet get resurrected?

Wow, this thread is old, but I meant that it's a death story that is both predictable (the plot is a pretty by the numbers revengers tale, the good bits are the language and character work, and everyone knows Hamlet dies at the end of it) but still good.

Of course, there is always Hamlet 2.

[sunofdarkchild]

At this point I can say Fraction, with help from Greg Land.

I find FF to be a good series, while Uncanny under Fraction was one long Cyclops fanfic.

The improvement just by changing the writer in Uncanny is astonishing, no pun intented.