SEVEN SOLDIERS: Speculation & Spoilers

[Screwtape]

Probably a little late to jump in for the accolades (and I'm sure no one is surprised to read them from me), but I thought this book was flippin' amazing. I've been doing without my Grant Morrison superheroes for too long now, and I'm glad I'll have him biweekly for a good long time.

J.H. Williams spoils me. I can hardly go back and read some of my other superhero stuff because it all just looks so stilted and forced by comparison.

[hugh45]

Has Grundy talked/dressed that way since his creation?

[Kid Seven]

-sigh- That's the problem with Morrison and a lot of his frequent collaborators. They spoil you. But seriously, I will plan accordingly. With WE3, JLA Classified and now Seven Soldiers, they automatically get shuffled to the end of my reading pile- because I know that there's not gonna be much that'll compare with them.

[Ontir]

Hey Paradox, this is a bit off topic, but I got to meet Bruce Dern last year. I talked to him about Silent Running and working with Trumbull (sp?). He's a really cool guy - and VERY intense! 8 ^>

[Paradox]

Heh, that's really cool, Ontir, but if you ever meet him again, don't ask him about killing John Wayne. He's sick to death of it. ;)

[Kid Seven]

There's an early review of Shinig Knight #1 up at The Fourth Rail, if anyone's interested.

You know you are!

[Ontir]

Heh, that's really cool, Ontir, but if you ever meet him again, don't ask him about killing John Wayne. He's sick to death of it. ;)

I didn't even notice the quote under your monicker! I think I've only ever seen one John Wayne movie, and it was in Black and White.

If/when I get the chance to talk to him again, I've got to ask him about Tattoo, anyway! :D :evilsmile :eek:

[kossori]

There's an early review of Shinig Knight #1 up at The Fourth Rail, if anyone's interested.

You know you are!

I'm trying not to read it...
I click the link... I leave... I click the link... I leave...
Must. hold on...
Only four. more. days...

[Kid Seven]

I'm glad someone has SOME self-control. Me, I saw it and clikced without a second thought. :rolleyes:

[Bat-Mite]

The review has no spoilers I could see, so it's safe to click away.

[Brian Cronin]

This is gonna be so much fun, isn't it?

I mean, I don't see why the other series won't be as good as this one, and this first issue was a ton of fun.

The basic gist of the plot of the original Shining Knight (quick recap here (http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2005/02/unnecessary-guide-to-seven-soldiers.html) ) is that Sir Justin and his flying horse Victory were trapped in ice until World War II.

This issue follows that plot as well, only a slight variation. The horse is named Vanguard, the transport is not through ice, and the time he travels to is today.

Beyond that, Morrison gives us a swashbuckling adventure that you are not likely to see again until the NEXT issue of Shining Knight.

The introductions of the Knights of the Round Table are handled delightfully, and the villain, the queen of the magical beasts who fight the Knights, known only as the Sheeda.

Like most comics he writes, Morrison tosses in a few metafiction remarks, a little fantasy/textual references, but mainly, a sense of wonderment and fun ("Have you ever heard of a mad horse?" :D).

Simone Bianchi helps Morrison get this sense of grandeur (with an undertone of grittiness) and wonder across beautifully.

And the transition from the grandeur and grittiness of Justin's time to just the grittiness of modern day America...it's jarring...and awesome.

I can't wait until next issue.

What did y'all think?

-Brian

[Bat-Mite]

The basic gist of the plot of the original Shining Knight (quick recap here ) is that Sir Justin and his flying horse Victory were trapped in ice until World War II.


I don't know why, but I always thought Merlin just showed up one day and sent him into the future for the heck of it. I think that was the origin given in Stars and STRIPE.

[Lex]

I can't wait to get this issue today!

[Omega Orange]

wow... i haven't been so entertained by a comic in a long time. i can't wait for the rest of seven soldiers. incredible!

[JeffreyWKramer]

It would appear we have a second Shining Knight, from a Camelot different from the ones we've seen in the past (old Shining Knight stories, THE DEMON, SWAMP THING, etc.). Yet, the old version of the Shining Knight - so similar to this one, yet also markedly different - would appear to exist in this story's continuity, given the lineup shown for the old SSOV from SEVEN SOLDIERS #0. I wonder if Morrison will be bringing Hypertime elements into this story.

In any case, this was a pretty cool first issue, and I'm looking forward to seeing where this book goes, and how it fits in with the larger story. Entertaining story, nice art.

[Mister Mets]

I loved this issue, and placed the entire maxi-series on my "pull list."

"What do Gods hunt?" may be the most moment in comics so far this year.

My prediction on the seventh soldier thread- He will return, and feel very guilty for abandoning the dommed heroes.

[Archyduke]

In terms of this Sir Justin being different from the classic DC Silver Knight, note that his pegasus is named Vanguard, as opposed to Victory (as the original was, I think).

Anyway, I'm wondering if the world he landed in is actually the mainstream DCU at all. I'd think that DCU cops would be a little more open-minded towards the concept of a guy in armor and his flying horse appearing from out of nowhere.

[Forsaken_One]

Well this is Gotham we're talking about, they're freaks are a bit less "super" than the freaks of most of the DCU.

[Reptisaurus!]

It was alright.

Which sucks, cause I was hoping for wonderful. Seemed really Seaguyish. (An' I liked Seaguy. The first time.)

The art was good, but ain't my thang, stylistically speaking. Very European.

[JeffreyWKramer]

In terms of this Sir Justin being different from the classic DC Silver Knight, note that his pegasus is named Vanguard, as opposed to Victory (as the original was, I think).


You are correct there. That's one of the differences.

[IamtheRock3]

big change in tone at the end wasn't it


So far a GREAT STORY!!

[TCJohnson]

All I have to say is, "Damn Grant Morrison for making this a bi-monthly!!"

[kossori]

Considering that the Horizon flyer that DC puts out to promote their comics is free, I've posted the pages of the preview of Seven Soldiers on my website.
If you didn't pick this up at your local comic shop it includes an intro by Morrison, cover pics for all the first issues and art from original design sketches for the characters.
Link. (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/02/review-seven-soldiers-of-victory.html)

[Kid Seven]

Awesome. I'll make sure to pick one up at my comic store tomorrow.

[Smuggletrain]

Well this is Gotham we're talking about, they're freaks are a bit less "super" than the freaks of most of the DCU.


Actually it's Los Angeles. I'm feeling the same as Archyduke in that this isn't a DCU title. Morrison is already on record that his 7 are mostly one-offs and re-thinks of the classic characters.

[Brian Cronin]

In terms of this Sir Justin being different from the classic DC Silver Knight, note that his pegasus is named Vanguard, as opposed to Victory (as the original was, I think).

Anyway, I'm wondering if the world he landed in is actually the mainstream DCU at all. I'd think that DCU cops would be a little more open-minded towards the concept of a guy in armor and his flying horse appearing from out of nowhere.

I did note that. ;)

And I think the shtick is that this IS the DCU, but Morrison is free to do whatever he wants to with it, ya know?

Sorta play fast and loose, continuity-wise.

-Brian

[TCJohnson]

Except...how many super heroes are actually in Los Angeles? I just assumed these cops had heard of all the super heroes but never actually believed they would meet one...and that some kid in armor who can't even speak english swinging around a sword would be anything but a lunatic.

[Doug Strange]

Seemed really Seaguyish.Buh-whaa?

It did?

The protagonist had a talking, flying animal for a sidekick, is really the only similarity I'm seeing. What else did you notice?

[Bat-Mite]

What else did you notice?


The writer... WAS THE SAME PERSON!

AHA! Have at thee, Doug!

[Indigo Al]

Great comic. I noticed several interesting things.

(This is my own geekoid observation) I loved the welsh myth throughout the issue. I thought less about Arthurian legend, and less about Lord of the Rings (which Morrison name checked in interviews), and I thought more about Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles!

That said, the Arthurian roundtable were acting, looking and being described like superheroes, which is not much of a stretch at all. But I love that fact myth characters and god characters (Vimanarama) are getting closer and closer to superheroes than ever before.

Loved the art. So dreamlike you can drown in it. That said, some of the battle scenes didn't seem to flow all that well. And the tension/love/shock between Olwen and Sir Justin was a little stilted.

Oh, one thing though: 5th to last page, where the cop is cuffing Sir Justin: Sir Justin looks like an outraged drag queen.

[Kid Seven]

This was an awesome issue. I loved the way Morrioson's taken the concept and gone off in a new direction with it. The art was great; I was amazed by the fact that he was able to do Avalon and Los Angeles so well, each with their own feel. Colorist deserves a lot of credit too.

Yay! Only two weeks till Guardian #1.

[Forsaken_One]

You know I'm grabbing the first issues of all of these minis just to see if I'll like them and so far... I haven't. And yet people here and on review sites are raving about Morrison's stories and how great they are. At this point, considering I wasn't geeking out over his JLA run, I think I just don't like Morrison as much as most people seem too.

[Kid Seven]

He's not everyone's taste, not by a long shot. I often find I like or dislike Morrison's stuff depending on what mood I'm in or how much kookiness I can take.

The Filth? Need a lot of kookiness-tolerability. New X-men, any time of the day.

[Forsaken_One]

I guess. I have to admit that I could barely finish the first issue of Invisibles so that's saying something I guess. Ah well, maybe Guardian or Zatanna will be better, I actually care about those characters. Then again that could make it worse.

BTW, I like your new avatar.

[Trench]

From the wacky kids at Barbelith, here's a nice Wiki about the issue (http://www.barbelith.com/faq/index.php/Shining_Knight_1). Specific Welsh myths and even a translation of what Justin says at the end of the issue... Good stuff.

[Captain Jim]

You know I'm grabbing the first issues of all of these minis just to see if I'll like them and so far... I haven't. And yet people here and on review sites are raving about Morrison's stories and how great they are. At this point, considering I wasn't geeking out over his JLA run, I think I just don't like Morrison as much as most people seem too.

Thank you for that. I was beginning to think I was the only one on the planet who doesn't care for his writing.

[Reptisaurus!]

Buh-whaa?

It did?

The protagonist had a talking, flying animal for a sidekick, is really the only similarity I'm seeing. What else did you notice?

More of a change in the way the stories structured, more than anything.

Morrison's work is all about the same stuff... The individual or group of individuals trying to either (A) survive or deal with mainstream society at large or (B) achieve enlightenment about the way their world works, but in Seaguy and here he's not telling superhero stories (which have generally reactionary protaginists) but he's using the older structures of ancient heroic myths and legends. Seaguy went on a quest in strange and unfamiliar lands, and I'd bet a goodly amount of money that a quest'll pop up in the next issue of Shining Knight.

I didn't think this issue was great, but it's kind of nice to see Morrison using superheroes to play around with elements of the Hero's Journey and such. It feels like he's working 70's Kirby territory, kinda; Structuring his superhero stories around mythological models.

[kossori]

He's not everyone's taste, not by a long shot. I often find I like or dislike Morrison's stuff depending on what mood I'm in or how much kookiness I can take.

The Filth? Need a lot of kookiness-tolerability. New X-men, any time of the day.

I'm the same... except opposite.
His Doom Patrol and Animal-Man appealed to me more than his X-Men or JLA. I think because he had more freedom.
It appears that he's being given plenty of freedom with Seven Soldiers, too.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Just curious, but has this 16 year old Sir Justin hypertimed away the adult Sir Justin from All-Star Squadron & the original Seven Soldiers of Victory? Morrison's generally pretty reverent towards DC history, so it doesn't seem likely that he'd just erase the old character altogether. I imagine it could be explained as Sir Justin the elder and Sir Justin the younger or something like that...

[ScottDMSimmons]

Just curious, but has this 16 year old Sir Justin hypertimed away the adult Sir Justin from All-Star Squadron & the original Seven Soldiers of Victory? Morrison's generally pretty reverent towards DC history, so it doesn't seem likely that he'd just erase the old character altogether. I imagine it could be explained as Sir Justin the elder and Sir Justin the younger or something like that...

I don't think so. The original was already seen in photos within issue #0. It is possible though that maybe the deaths of the heroes in #0 started messing with the space-time/hypertime and created a new Justin. I'm also think that maybe we could be looking at the micro-Earth that becomes Nebula Man. Maybe this Justin comes from there, or maybe this Justin is just related to the other Justin.... and Vanguard and Victory are related as well, or are the same breed of horse. I have yet to read SHINING KNIGHT #1 though, so I can comment again afterwards with a better formed opinion.

--Scott

[Ronald Bryan]

I thought it was an interesting first issue. Lots happened and yet it was a bit bare. Quick and lightening fast, the story moves at breakneck speeds until the ending, where it all comes crashing down (metaphorically and literally). Still, Morrison shined, as he usually does when he's playing by his own rules in his own sandbox. An interesting first issue. Here's seeing where it goes.

And I think this can be a different Sir Justin, while still fitting into the DCU. The majority of DC characters are on the east coast. LA cops might not even believe fully in the existence of super heroes. Who knows, but I can see it happening this way.

[meethraa]

I was surprised by how much I liked this one, considering how Morrison's been boring me silly lately.

But JH Williams III is the star here, as far as I'm concerned.
I liked how Vigilante looked like he was drawn by Jean Giraud and Boy Blue was reminiscent of Jeanne Hives or Georges Chaulet. I'm not sure I get the other characters' influences (EDIT: though Spyder kinda looks like a Tim Bradstreet illustration in some panels), but this JH fella is good.

Not sure I'll buy the rest of the series though, we'll see.

[Captain Blitz]

Yeah, great stuff, I can´t wait for the upcoming issues. :) This one´s gonna be a helluva ride.

@meethra: Ha, I´m not the only one seeing a little bit of Bradstreet´s artwork in the Spyder. :)

[Paradox]

I liked it. I wasn't "absolutely enthralled", but it was enjoyable and I'm looking forward to more.

And with Grant...well, sometimes I get the feeling that, continuity-wise, he's kind of a modern day Bob Haney (not that that's a BAD thing). ;)

[TCJohnson]

I am a little suprised more people are not commenting on the art. I thought Simone Bianchi's art was absolutely amazing! It is was beautiful. Normally I am not into the art as much as I am into the story, but this is one of the few books that I can say I would have bought it just for the art alone.

[Tobias March]

Hello. New here, like the place and hope to stay for a bit. But to jump right in...

I liked this start to the Shining Knight series. It's like Grant has carved out his own ABC universe under the noses of the mainstream DCU, which allows him to do pretty much whatever he wants (and since the Sheeda seem to be attacking all time periods simultaneously...that's literally anything).

One thing, I checked out the Barbelith link up above, they didn't mention the use of the Dagda's cauldron. The Dagda was an Irish god, the chief of the gods, who dragged about a cauldron that could never be emptied. Our gods suck :D

Anyway cheers.

[Karl J. Barnes]

A quick message: This was a very intense and cool first issue and I am definitely looking forward to more of this series. Hopefully after this first run, DC will make it an ongoing or just move it to Vertigo and do it there.

[Kid Seven]

I wonder if DC is in fact looking at this as a chance to franchise some of these. Actually as I type this I think i remember Morrison saying something to that extent actually.

[kossori]

I believe it was mentioned in that Horizon preview that it was an attempt to franchise them.

[TJ Shoun]

Any of you guys notice how long the wait is between issues?

Look at that Seven Soldiers schedule page.

No wonder it's gonna take ovr a year to pull this off. :rolleyes:

[Ilash]

Any of you guys notice how long the wait is between issues?

Look at that Seven Soldiers schedule page.

No wonder it's gonna take ovr a year to pull this off. :rolleyes:

Yeah but the only way I could even think of buying all of these series is if they're spread out like they are.

As for Shining Knight, I really liked it. I'm not familiar at all with Sir Justin but Morrison has come up with yet another great story (or at least intro to a potentially great story), with some cool concepts and the artwork by Simone Bianchi (Simone? That's a woman's name isn't it? And yet this artist is always referred to as a he. Just out of curiosity which is it?) is beeeautiful.

This Seven Soldiers of Victory thing is not gonna be cheap but Morrison's winning streak seems to be rolling on so I guess I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet for this.

[kossori]

I just posted my review of Shining Knight #1 on my blog.
Here's the link. (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/03/review-shining-knight-1.html)

[Reptisaurus!]

Yeah but the only way I could even think of buying all of these series is if they're spread out like they are.



Ditto. Once every two weeks is about all I can afford. (Although it would make more sense to have two monthly series running at the same time, sez I.)

[dbztoolkit]

yea i jsut picked up the book today if anyone want to review it.
I need an article on it from 300 words to 500 on it.
If anyone in here can help me with this id be glade and on any upcoming books or books that are on the shelves that people should know about you know the darkhorse books.
I need help bad on this so if you like to share your toughts on something lets work togather.

[DavidQ!]

Any body else reading this series, I read one and I want some more. Morrison that damn good sometimes.

[TCJohnson]

I thought that Seven Soldiers #0 was really good but not great.

I thought Shining Knight #1 was one of the best comics in months.

I love the preview of Guardian.

[Tobias March]

I thought that Seven Soldiers #0 was really good but not great.

I thought Shining Knight #1 was one of the best comics in months.

I love the preview of Guardian.

I'm curious to see what he does with Mr. Miracle. Zatanna is getting loads of attention these days - finally doing justice to her character.

[kossori]

My thoughts on Seven Soldiers (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/02/review-seven-soldiers-of-victory.html) -with checklist and previews (including the Horizon preview).
My thoughts on Shining Knight #1 (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/03/review-shining-knight-1.html)

[Beta Ray Bill]

I'm looking forward to the Bulleteer story. Long wait though...

[Tobias March]

Ah but Guardian is this week....with subway pirates and the return of the Seaguy team! :D

[Lex]

Guardian #1 is being released tomorrow. I hope everyone is going to pick it up.

[Lex]

Post 'em here, gang!

[kossori]

Thought I already posted on this thread. Guess that was a different Seven Soldiers thread.

I have a review of both Seven Soldiers (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/02/review-seven-soldiers-of-victory.html) and Shining Knight (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/03/review-shining-knight-1.html).

The Seven Soldiers review has actually turned into a Seven Soldiers feature that's updated as new info comes out. I even scanned the DC Horizon flyer that promoted it, which has preview art for all the mini-series as well as a nice Grant Morrison interview.

[TCJohnson]

I wasn't too impressed with it. It wasn't bad but wasn't great either. I thought the story relied too much on coincidence.

[Captain Jim]

Is there any reference to the original Guardian/Jim Harper at all, or does this replace all past continuity?

[Karl J. Barnes]

Is there any reference to the original Guardian/Jim Harper at all, or does this replace all past continuity?

Nary a word, which made me wonder. Still it was fast paced and kooky fun. Everytime that I see Morrisson and Stewart together, I think to their Sea Guy mini and smile.

[Forsaken_One]

Is there any reference to the original Guardian/Jim Harper at all, or does this replace all past continuity?
Actually there was... kinda. He (the new Guardian) mentions that the Guardian newspaper bought the Guardian superhero trademark (sheild and helmet I'd guess) off a secret government agency. Beyond that there's no link it seems.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Actually there was... kinda. He (the new Guardian) mentions that the Guardian newspaper bought the Guardian superhero trademark (sheild and helmet I'd guess) off a secret government agency. Beyond that there's no link it seems.

Okay, yeah, but no mention of the old Guardian, which is okay. Morrisson is doing his own thing with these guys, no need really to mention those who came before, unless it would help the story.

[Forsaken_One]

Okay, yeah, but no mention of the old Guardian, which is okay. Morrisson is doing his own thing with these guys, no need really to mention those who came before, unless it would help the story.
Well yeah, save some "guy from long ago" or something comment. But at least it basically states that this isn't replacing the old Guardian; he still existed and all those storylines with him are still around, as much as anything is in comics. Which is good and leads me to believe that Shining Knight's not a complete retcon either, but rather a new Shining Knight. I wonder what he's going to do with Zatanna and Klarion, though. I'm betting Zatanna's staying in continuity, not a new one, but who knows with Klarion the Witch Boy.

Edit: The exact quote is "They bought the whole Guardian trademark thing when the military sold off some R&D division called The Project, that's what Stargard tells me, you know he was some kinda kid crimebuster back in the day..."

[Captain Jim]

Okay, yeah, but no mention of the old Guardian, which is okay. Morrisson is doing his own thing with these guys, no need really to mention those who came before, unless it would help the story.

I just don't like it if he's rewriting continuity. (Maybe he isn't. I dunno; that's why I asked.)

[Karl J. Barnes]

Well yeah, save some "guy from long ago" or something comment. But at least it basically states that this isn't replacing the old Guardian; he still existed and all those storylines with him are still around, as much as anything is in comics. Which is good and leads me to believe that Shining Knight's not a complete retcon either, but rather a new Shining Knight. I wonder what he's going to do with Zatanna and Klarion, though. I'm betting Zatanna's staying in continuity, not a new one, but who knows with Klarion the Witch Boy.


Yeah, can't see him changing Zantanna too much, plus she is in Vertigo's new Books of Magic series and I thought that I heard that Klarion was going to be retconned as in the origins part, not that Klarion wouldn't be the nasty little witch boy. All I know, is I am picking up ALL The Seven Soldiers series.

[Lex]

I even scanned the DC Horizon flyer that promoted it, which has preview art for all the mini-series as well as a nice Grant Morrison interview.

Yeah, I noticed that and it's awesome! I had been hoping someone would put those on the net. I wanted people to see those awesome sketches Morrison drew and also the cool covers for Frankenstien #1 and Mr. Miracle #1.

[Bat-Mite]

Which is good and leads me to believe that Shining Knight's not a complete retcon either

Err... the original Shining Knight shows up in the first Seven Soldiers book, ya know? So no, no retcon there either.

[Forsaken_One]

Err... the original Shining Knight shows up in the first Seven Soldiers book, ya know? So no, no retcon there either.
Does he? Oh, good. Still wondering about Klarion though.

[Lex]

Guardian #1 was awesome!

This is the mini I've been the most excited for because of the brilliance in the concept of the subway pirates. It puts a modern twist on pirate legends and it even included a hidden treasure map (again, with a twist). And the pirate leaders are so simple, they're perfect!

Jake Jordan is a great character. Morrison captures how Jake's life has taken a turn for the worse and how that leads him to be a great candidate for this Guardian job. I'm not sure I liked how a job like that was advertised in a newspaper... but I guess that newspaper WAS the Manhattan Guardian, so it's not that strange.

The weakest part of the issue was when Jake went to interview for the job. You knew that the "terrorist attack" was fake right from the beginning. And, from the writing, it didn't seem like Morrison tried to hide it (maybe he realize that it would be too obvious to the readers). The part of this "interview" that I really liked was how Jake took down the Golem. "That's... number ten in the movie monsters... trading card series." Heh.

I can't wait to see more of the Newsboy Army. It's such a cool concept that this newspaper has an army of people around the city gathering news and helping out Guardian whenever he needs them. Very cool!

And the art was amazing! Cameron Stewart was a great choice for this story.

As much as I loved Seven Soldiers #0 and Shining Knight #1, this is definately my favorite issue so far. I can't wait to see those secret tunnels!

[Lex]

Still wondering about Klarion though.

I don't know if Morrison said outright that the previous Klarion appearances are no longer in continuity, but he did say that he was revamping the character from the ground up. He applauded Peter David for his attempt to make use of the character, but to make him commercially viable Morrison had to start over.

I started out liking PAD's portrayal of Klarion, but that characterization quickly grew old. So, I'm interested to see Morrison's take on the character.

[Puffy Treat]

Other than Klarion, I think Morrison hasn't stated that any of these new characters replace/invalidate earlier versions...despite the conclusions some high traffic online review sites have drawn.

(I mean, the original 7 Soldiers of Victory were seen in #0. Did they all just miss that?)

[twilight]

Has anything actually been said so far in interviews with Morrison or in previews what the Frankenstein,Bulleteer and Mr.Miracle series will be about?

[TCJohnson]

They did a pretty good job of collecting all that information in this thread: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=27632

[Puffy Treat]

Has anything actually been said so far in interviews with Morrison or in previews what the Frankenstein,Bulleteer and Mr.Miracle series will be about?


Yes, "Previews" blurbs have given brief descriptions of them.

[O'Blivion]

I'm hooked -- the subway pirates are a unique twist on urban gang violence, reminiscent of something from "The Warriors," and have already resulted in some memorable stuff ("sun-lubbers," for instance). The Guardian newspaper and its Newsboy Army are also really interesting concepts with so many potential directions that I'm already hoping for an ongoing series. And in a broader sense, I'm interested to see more of what DC's New York is like.

It's a promising beginning for the new Guardian, a more blue-collar hero than many DC names -- after all, for him it's a job in the literal sense. With that kind of down-to-earth tone, and a concept that presents ample opportunity to comment on the relationship between the media and society, I definitely want to see more of the new Guardian.

[Tobias March]

Wasn't he originally working on a pitch for a remake of the Newsboy Legion when Mr. Morrison had his 'abduction experience', and came up with the idea for the Invisibles?

[Bat-Mite]

I haven't read the Guardian issue, yet... but...

All Beard = Alan Moore.

No Beard = Morrison?

[Paul McEnery]

Since we're playing the = game...

Some levels of allegory I've spotted.

Ed Stargard "is" the building, and he's been "invaded." He's also the inventor of four elemental heroes (when he was ten -- shades of Wally Sage). And he's the proprietor of a newspaper whose readers are the reporters (the blogosphere turning cash?). So you've got:
1) Jack Kirby (the elementals);
2) God (although since Jack Kirby is God -- and, of course, the creator of the Guardian and the Newsboy Legion -- that goes without saying);
3) Reality itself (invaded by the Sheeda), and reported by the readers;
4) the Subway is Hell.

So the newspaper is the reality in which we may choose to participate, The Guardian is its saviour avatar (who spent years in the wilderness), the Legion are angels/disciples, the pirates are Legion (i.e. demons that need to be exorcised), and God is a disembodied editor living on the 23rd floor of change (I Ching and Chaos Magic).

Add to this, the figure of the wounded hero throughout 7 Soldiers: The Guardian is riddled with guilt, Justin is stabbed with venom, and Zatanna is apparently in therapy. So once again, we've got the theme of initiation before conflict, to add to the theme of anti-bodies against viral infection (The Filth and the t-for-terrorist-cells of The Invisibles).

And never mind that this kind of mad invention is the most joyous comix we've seen since the 70s.

[kossori]

Has anything actually been said so far in interviews with Morrison or in previews what the Frankenstein,Bulleteer and Mr.Miracle series will be about?

I scanned the DC Horizon flyer that included an interview with Morrison and preview pics of all the minis. You can find it here (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/02/review-seven-soldiers-of-victory.html) .

[Ian J.N.]

I just don't like it if he's rewriting continuity. (Maybe he isn't. I dunno; that's why I asked.)
A quote from a Newsarama article (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=758848):
- Asked if the New Gods will be showing up, Morrison said they will be appearing in the Mr. Miracle chapter of Seven Soldier. But he said they will be changed. In the storyline, Darkseid has won and has cast the New Gods down to Earth, so new versions of familiar characters will show up. For example, Orion is a broken-down boxer.
... leads me to believe that Seven Soldiers isn't in-continuity. Wait and see, I guess.

[Paradox]

TCJohnson forces me to ask:

I wasn't too impressed with it. It wasn't bad but wasn't great either. I thought the story relied too much on coincidence.

Um, what coincidences? The only one's I saw were at the end, when his family were the ones being attacked by the pirates (and, who knows? He works for a manipulitive paper...it might have been a set-up). Everything else was pretty straight-forward.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Um, what coincidences? The only one's I saw were at the end, when his family were the ones being attacked by the pirates (and, who knows? He works for a manipulitive paper...it might have been a set-up). Everything else was pretty straight-forward.

Yes, you got to wonder, if the newspaper isn't at fault for alot of things happening. Maybe Morrisson is using The Guardian as an allegory about how the news manufactures their stories.

[kossori]

Forgive me for being late but I haven't had any time off from work to do this. I just posted my review (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/03/review-guardian-1.html) of Guardian #1.

[Lex]

PopCultureShock jsut put up a 4 page preview of Zatanna #1!

*SPOILERS!*

http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=4020

[Forsaken_One]

PopCultureShock jsut put up a 4 page preview of Zatanna #1!

*SPOILERS!*

http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=4020
Yay, he turned Zatanna into a magic (drug) addict. Yeeeah, I'm sorry but that's not really the Zatanna I've come to know and love. I'll pick up the first issue but I think I'm going to write off this whole Seven Soldiers thing as a loss, regardless of the reviews (which frankly I think are really overzealous in their love of Morrison).

Edit: People have names. Duurr... :p

[TCJohnson]

I will take a look at this one. Knowing morrison there is a reasonable explanation for that.

Gimick Girl is still alive?!?

[Indigo Al]

I LOVE it!!! And I am no longer worried!!! Yaaaaayyyyy!

[Indigo Al]

I will take a look at this one. Knowing morrison there is a reasonable explanation for that.

[spoil]SPOILER spoil]

Read Seven Soldiers 0 - you'll see the explanation there

[TCJohnson]

Yes, I have read Seven Soldiers #0.

The original "7" soldiers (even if there is just six of them) were wiped out by the Sheeda, Gimmick Girl was one of them. One of the Seven Unknown Men of Slaughter Swamp even said, "Our soldiers are dead." And there is a nice shot of a Sheeda about to plunge a spear into her back. So how did she manage to survive that Sheeda attack? How many others survived the Sheeda attack? Is Vigilante still alive? I, Spyder? The Whip? Or, is this even Gimmick Girl? Could it be an imposter, a shape changing Sheeda? Or did she turn traitor to spare her own life?

What exactly was explained?

[TCJohnson]

Oh, and when I said reasonable explaition, it was in reference to Zatanna being a magic/drug addict which is not how I read it at all.

[Forsaken_One]

The scene probably just takes place before Seven Soldiers 0.

And... reasonable explenation from Morrison? That's not been my experience with his books, but as I said I'm giving it an issue to win me over. So far I'm just convinced I don't like Morrison as much as other people for whatever reason.

[TCJohnson]

That was my first thought, that this is happening before #0...but she was talking about the events of #0. Besides, the other possibilities are more interesting.

[Paul McEnery]

The scene probably just takes place before Seven Soldiers 0.

Especially as Gimmick Girl makes mention of it.

[Reptisaurus!]

Huh.

Here I am excited about a Zatanna comic.

Weird, considering she's one of my verrry least favorite characters in comics. Or, to put it another way, my (*counts*) fourteenth favorite DC magic user.

This looks like a lotta fun. No matter how Identity Crisis-y and stupid the rest of DC gets, it's nice to know that there's a steady stream of farm fresh Grant Morrison books to tide me over.

[kossori]

PopCultureShock jsut put up a 4 page preview of Zatanna #1!

*SPOILERS!*

http://www.popcultureshock.com/reviews.php?id=4020

Thanks for the heads up, Lex.
I've added the link to my Seven Soldiers page.

As for Gimmix surviving the assault, it looked to me that if anyone survived it was her and Shelly as they were the only ones who hadn't been run through in that last panel.
It looked to me that Gimmix just broke down in the middle of the attack, unable to keep her composure.
I do wonder if this takes place before or after Seven Soldiers #0. From what she says it's quite possible that it's after.

I also appreciated how in Guardian #1 the radio announcer is commenting on Mr. Miracle.

Makes it feel like these books are connected even more.

[Forsaken_One]

Kossori: please put spoiler tags ([ spoil][ /spoil] without the spaces) in your thread. The book isn't out yet and this thread doesn't have any spoiler warnings in the title.

[TCJohnson]

Well, remember in Shining Knight #1. Sir Justin rescued his girlfriend/fairy girl from the Sheeda, only to find out it was a changling who stabbed him. I think this Gimmix is also a changling...possibly sent after Zantanna herself.

[Tobias March]

Well, remember in Shining Knight #1. Sir Justin rescued his girlfriend/fairy girl from the Sheeda, only to find out it was a changling who stabbed him. I think this Gimmix is also a changling...possibly sent after Zantanna herself.

That would make sense. Or this could be a further tie in with the Sheeda's methods in Grant's recent JLA classified story

[kossori]

Kossori: please put spoiler tags ([ spoil][ /spoil] without the spaces) in your thread. The book isn't out yet and this thread doesn't have any spoiler warnings in the title.

Sorry... I figured since it was in the preview I wasn't spoiling anything. I haven't got a copy of the book, either.
My bad.

[Paul Newell]

If you're wondering why the thread has grown in size, here's an explanation guys an' gals. :)



Since the various mini-series have close ties and tell a much larger, overall story, I noticed that many of the individual reviews of issues had the conversation "cross-pollinating" over the various threads and this thread, in particular, is still the most active due to announcements and speculation. So, to simplify matters, I've merged the various discussions into one giant mega-thread.

[Forsaken_One]

So, what, we're going to have mega threads for Seven Soldiers, Countdown, Crisis, Day of Vengance, OMAC, Raan/Thanagar War, and Villians United? Or is this policy limited to hooj maxi-series like Seven Soldiers?

[Paul Newell]

So, what, we're going to have mega threads for Seven Soldiers, Countdown, Crisis, Day of Vengance, OMAC, Raan/Thanagar War, and Villians United? Or is this policy limited to hooj maxi-series like Seven Soldiers?
Very likely for the ones you mentioned, though the Captain and I are still undecided about what to do with the mini series spinning out of Countdown.

The problem originally came to light when Identity Crisis came along and you would get lots of threads starting that would have exactly the same discussions running but pushing threads discussing other topics off the main page. Before merging the Countdown threads, we had at least three threads with the same people pretty much posting the same posts in each and it was pretty redundant.

A similiar thing was happening with the Seven Soldiers threads with speculation about the overall story happening in the threads dedicated to a particular issue. Also a lot of links and information people had posted was being spread about and lost, whereas now, if you wanted to go back and check for something, there is now just one thread to search for that particular thing.

It's just a matter of keeping things tidy and not swamping the board with discussions that are too similiar. Particularly at the expense of other worthy, yet unrelated topics.

[Forsaken_One]

Just to claify, I wasn't critisizing, I agree with the policy and like keeping the board tidy. I just wanted to know what was going to happen, in case I wanted to start the first thread on any of those miniseries.

[Paul Newell]

No worries, I never saw any critisism in your post at all. :)

It's preferable to post about the issues coming on this thread. Any separate threads will be moved here as well.

[kossori]

Yay... Now I don't have to read any other threads!
(evil laughter)

[berk]

Dumb question to any Seven Soldiers readers:

I've read #0 and am thinking about trying the series, despite reservations about it being set in the DCU; which of the various #1's should I read first? If it doesn't matter in terms of the narrative, which do you recommend based on your own enjoyment?

[the Monitor]

Dumb question to any Seven Soldiers readers:

I've read #0 and am thinking about trying the series, despite reservations about it being set in the DCU; which of the various #1's should I read first? If it doesn't matter in terms of the narrative, which do you recommend based on your own enjoyment?

Well of the two that are out so far (Guardian #1 and Shining Knight #1) both are pretty fun reads. The Guardian was more madcap adventure while the Shining Knight had a mythical-superhero feel; so which ever way your tastes run, go for that.

[CLavery]

Dumb question to any Seven Soldiers readers:

I've read #0 and am thinking about trying the series, despite reservations about it being set in the DCU; which of the various #1's should I read first? If it doesn't matter in terms of the narrative, which do you recommend based on your own enjoyment?

Only Guardian and Shining Knight are out now and I think Zatanna will be out pretty soon.

To be honest I really liked them both and I think this event is going to be a great one.

[Reptisaurus!]

What with all the Kirby characters, (Guardian, Mister Miracle, Klarion) the interlocking series that tell one over-all story, and the sheer *scope* of the project...

D'y'all think that this is Morrison's direct response to Kirby's New Gods/Mister Miracle/Forever People/Jimmy Olsen books?

Seems to me that this is the first comic project ever that's trying to match Kirby's cosmic scope. I'm wondering if this is an intentional nod?

[Tobias March]

What with all the Kirby characters, (Guardian, Mister Miracle, Klarion) the interlocking series that tell one over-all story, and the sheer *scope* of the project...

D'y'all think that this is Morrison's direct response to Kirby's New Gods/Mister Miracle/Forever People/Jimmy Olsen books?

Seems to me that this is the first comic project ever that's trying to match Kirby's cosmic scope. I'm wondering if this is an intentional nod?

I initially thought it was Grant's successful attempt to put out there what Moore tried with 'Twilight of the Superheroes', ie a well written story that would also ideally spin off a number of miniseries, alter the DCU in an optional way (ie writers could go with it or not and it would not affect the storyline itself) and - merchandising tie-ins up the wazoo :D

[Reptisaurus!]

I initially thought it was Grant's successful attempt to put out there what Moore tried with 'Twilight of the Superheroes', ie a well written story that would also ideally spin off a number of miniseries, alter the DCU in an optional way (ie writers could go with it or not and it would not affect the storyline itself) and - merchandising tie-ins up the wazoo :D

... Which was the basic set-up for Fourth World books as well. Kirby was going to develop the characters and settings, and then hand 'em over to other artists. (Of course, it didn't quite work out that way...)

[Paul McEnery]

... Which was the basic set-up for Fourth World books as well. Kirby was going to develop the characters and settings, and then hand 'em over to other artists. (Of course, it didn't quite work out that way...)
You bring up an interesting point I'd missed.

Obviously, Grant's doing another apocalypse story, and like every good Chaos Magician, is looking forward to the upcoming transformation from this paradigm to the next. In Hopi/Aztec terms, this is the shift from the Fourth World to the Fifth World. So the Kirby thing is probably a deliberate allusion.

[Captain Jim]

I think Zatanna will be out pretty soon.

Next week, actually. My retailer got the "first look" copy today.

[Reptisaurus!]

You bring up an interesting point I'd missed.

Obviously, Grant's doing another apocalypse story,
and like every good Chaos Magician, is looking forward to the upcoming transformation from this paradigm to the next. In Hopi/Aztec terms, this is the shift from the Fourth World to the Fifth World. So the Kirby thing is probably a deliberate allusion.

I don't quite know what the middle part means.

But, yeah, I'm fairly sure that this is a Kirby-esque project.

Seems like Morrison is trying to take the leap from writing superhero stories with mythological elements, ala Captain Marvel or Thor, to actually writing original Mythology, which is what Kirby was doing.

It is an apocalypse story. And we've got an obvious quest narrative in the Shining Knight. And we've got spider-Gods and living information totems... And I think we'll see more mythological references as the story continues.

Still, I'm wondering if Morrison's ever out-and-said that this is a direct response to Kirby's Fourth World books. Feels like it to me.

[kossori]

I initially thought it was Grant's successful attempt to put out there what Moore tried with 'Twilight of the Superheroes', ie a well written story that would also ideally spin off a number of miniseries, alter the DCU in an optional way (ie writers could go with it or not and it would not affect the storyline itself) and - merchandising tie-ins up the wazoo :D

Thanks for bringing that up. I was never aware of "Twilight" and after a brief search found it online.

[Indigo Al]

SPOILERS discussion


Old school spoilers - i cant figure out the tabs yet

scroll down













I really doubt the therapy session in the Zatanna previews takes place after 7 Soldiers #0. I think it's probably just a tie in, and it shows what an obnoxious drama queen and superhero starf***er Gimmix is (and that's why I love her!). The "Starro porn demon abuse" stuff is a bit jarring and in bad taste, but also funny in a wrong kind of way. I wonder if it's a) true and related to the Sheeda or b) more of her annoying posing.

[Tobias March]

Thanks for bringing that up. I was never aware of "Twilight" and after a brief search found it online.

It's an enjoyable read isn't it :D

[berk]

Well, I read Guardian. Good read, and I'll probably be continuing with the Seven Soldiers line of books.

Regarding the Kirby referneces some posters have brought up in this thread: I really think that, in the panel where Jordan drives his scooter into the crowd of pirates down in the subway, Morrison was paying tribute to Kirby's writing style in the four captions ("Suddenly the sputtering barks ... Worm Almighty). Which might make All-Beard a parody and/or shadow-version of some of Kirby's (often white-bearded) patriarchal authority figures like ("All-Father") Odin and Highfather; which might in turn make him a parody of the authoritarian "God" of the Judaeo-Christian-Islamic tradition. We'll have to see how All-Beard is utilized as the series unfolds. If there is anything to this speculation, his title "Master of the Night-Frigate, Worm Almighty" becomes very interesting, Night being equated with both the unconscious (echoed by the literally underworld setting of his subway domain) and the chaos from which the ordered universe was formed in many mythologies; and of course "Worm Almighty" evokes the world-serpent which has related associations in many mythologies all over the world. Looking forward to watching how all this unfolds.

[Lex]

Not only did Seven Soldiers #0 sell out at DC, but they are going to press with a second printing! Very cool news!

Check it out! (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31005)

And here's the new cover:

http://www.newsarama.com/DC/7Soldiers/SEVENSOLDIERS2nd.jpg

[the Monitor]

Good news, but I thought the cover was a joke of yours (referencing the red covers of Identity Crisis: Final Printing). Not exactly what I would have gone with, but then I gots the original :D

[kossori]

I may just get it for the cover...

[Santanico]

Is it just me, or has Seven Soldiers been rather overshadowed (in terms of buzz and hype, that is) by the whole Crisis II kerfuffle? A real shame, that.

[Paul McEnery]

Is it just me, or has Seven Soldiers been rather overshadowed (in terms of buzz and hype, that is) by the whole Crisis II kerfuffle? A real shame, that.
Well, of course.

What you've got here is two competing events with vastly different views of social interconnectivity. (Or, alternatively, a bunch of geeks trying to act like frat boys to big themselves up while trying to emulate genuine four star freaks vs. a genuine four star freak.)

Morrisson's trying to breath new life into concepts, while further developing his own cosmology. The geeks who would be frat boys are coasting on other people's genius. Since DC has decided that their market is geeks who would be frat boys, that's the one that's getting the attention.

In three years time, look for the next generation of geeks who would be frat boys stealing ideas from 7 Soldiers (and running them into the ground, too).

Because, after all, they can't easily steal from Promethea.

[Paul McEnery]

On a less peevish note, I spotted a line from Sir Miles towards the end of The Invisibles (talking to Dane/Jack when he's just eaten the Archon):

"The King-Archon...Sabaoth...The Foundation Stone...Are you?"

Which puts an interesting spin on the quest of The Guardian.

[Captain Jim]

Is it just me, or has Seven Soldiers been rather overshadowed (in terms of buzz and hype, that is) by the whole Crisis II kerfuffle? A real shame, that.

That's a matter of opinion. ;)

[Forsaken_One]

Well, of course.

What you've got here is two competing events with vastly different views of social interconnectivity. (Or, alternatively, a bunch of geeks trying to act like frat boys to big themselves up while trying to emulate genuine four star freaks vs. a genuine four star freak.)

Morrisson's trying to breath new life into concepts, while further developing his own cosmology. The geeks who would be frat boys are coasting on other people's genius. Since DC has decided that their market is geeks who would be frat boys, that's the one that's getting the attention.

In three years time, look for the next generation of geeks who would be frat boys stealing ideas from 7 Soldiers (and running them into the ground, too).

Because, after all, they can't easily steal from Promethea.
Geeks who want to be Fraternity members? What are you talking about? :confused:

[kossori]

I think publishing both at the same time was a great idea.
They're totally different attempts of storytelling and people will most definitely like one or the other.

Not many will like both.

SSoV is more storytelling and fun while IC is more pizazz and hype.

SSoV will appeal to those who prefer story over stars. IC will draw in the fanboys.

I've read Countdown and can tell you that I'm more into SSoV.
I may get the Rann/Thanagar War, but that'll probably be it.
Otherwise, it's bi-weekly doses of Morrison fantasy.

>>> Paul McEnery: Really cool. I haven't read Invisibles. I wonder if there'll be a connection...

[Lex]

SSoV is more storytelling and fun while IC is more pizazz and hype.

SSoV will appeal to those who prefer story over stars. IC will draw in the fanboys.

Well said. I agree that Seven Soldiers is more about the story and the fun in these characters.

[IamtheRock3]

Please try not to merge this one..sense I dont want it to be lost into the abyss that is the merge seven solider thread. Differnt mini seires differnt threads


I like it. I really SUPRISING and JARRING THE swithc from light humor to Darkness these mini series seem to be making. Really first part was funny with the old woman trap in the girl body then Zantana friend getting turn into Ash.

They did have some good charcter and made Zantana seem 3 dimminsional. I understand the need to power Zantana down but I hope not for the whole mini series because we never really seen her just go wild with her powers.


Don't know about the goth version of the Golden Child. Could be good or could be bad for the story.

[Reptisaurus!]

Got Zatanna.

Pretty good.

Had bunnies.

Liked the art.

Two HUGE Alan Moore homages, to Promethea and Swamp Thing.

Another to-be-continued story. I'm thinking maybe this series will read better in trade.

[berk]

Geeks who want to be Fraternity members? What are you talking about? The way I see it, stuff like the House of M, New Avengers, Countdown, etc, like 99% of DC/Marvel comics, are basically re-cycling the same sort of adolescent stories those companies have been doing for the last 40 years. But they'd have you believe that they're actually doing something much more mature and sophisticated, something qualitatively different. Their method is to tell those same stoires, but to add dialogue that sounds like it was lifted from whatever tv shows have been popular for the last few years, by having their characters go through more explicit sorts of trauma (e.g. rape, broken limbs), maybe change a few costumes, and other superficial alterations and additions of the sort. What they aren't doing is telling stories with concerns beyond those usual for the genre: to cater to fans (geeks) who like to thrill over how badass Batman is and how everyone is a little scared of him; how morally perfect and righteous Superman and Captain America are; how powerful Superman is; how a "kid" like Spiderman (developmentally still anadolescent) can be a hero; and so on and so forth. There's nothing terrbly wrong with all that - except that they're trying to fool the reader (and probably themselves) that they're doing something different. But their aspirations are so paltry, so devoid of imagination, that the most they'll ever achieve is, not a mature creation dealing with themes beyond the above, but a sort of louder, more obnoxious, less honest version of what they've always done. Hence the frat-boy reference. The story is still aat an adolecent level, but the tone is more assertive. There's a superficial veneer of what they think is sophistication, but it's really just a thin facade for the same old run-around.

Mind you, I don't think Morrison's mainstream stuff (e.g. JLA) entirely escapes falling into the same trap; it's unavoidable in a way, because that's what fans expect from those characters. But with Seven Soldiers, from what I've seen so far, I think he really is doing something beyond that. I believe the key is that he's using 2nd-echelon characters so that DC has allowed him to tell the story he wants instead of telling him what story they want. So far, so good. I'm still a little leery, because it does appear to be set in the DCU, so you never know when the editorial boot might come down.

[Paul McEnery]

The way I see it, stuff like the House of M, New Avengers, Countdown, etc, like 99% of DC/Marvel comics, are basically re-cycling the same sort of adolescent stories those companies have been doing for the last 40 years. But they'd have you believe that they're actually doing something much more mature and sophisticated, something qualitatively different. Their method is to tell those same stoires, but to add dialogue that sounds like it was lifted from whatever tv shows have been popular for the last few years, by having their characters go through more explicit sorts of trauma (e.g. rape, broken limbs), maybe change a few costumes, and other superficial alterations and additions of the sort. What they aren't doing is telling stories with concerns beyond those usual for the genre: to cater to fans (geeks) who like to thrill over how badass Batman is and how everyone is a little scared of him; how morally perfect and righteous Superman and Captain America are; how powerful Superman is; how a "kid" like Spiderman (developmentally still anadolescent) can be a hero; and so on and so forth. There's nothing terrbly wrong with all that - except that they're trying to fool the reader (and probably themselves) that they're doing something different. But their aspirations are so paltry, so devoid of imagination, that the most they'll ever achieve is, not a mature creation dealing with themes beyond the above, but a sort of louder, more obnoxious, less honest version of what they've always done. Hence the frat-boy reference. The story is still aat an adolecent level, but the tone is more assertive. There's a superficial veneer of what they think is sophistication, but it's really just a thin facade for the same old run-around.

Mind you, I don't think Morrison's mainstream stuff (e.g. JLA) entirely escapes falling into the same trap; it's unavoidable in a way, because that's what fans expect from those characters. But with Seven Soldiers, from what I've seen so far, I think he really is doing something beyond that. I believe the key is that he's using 2nd-echelon characters so that DC has allowed him to tell the story he wants instead of telling him what story they want. So far, so good. I'm still a little leery, because it does appear to be set in the DCU, so you never know when the editorial boot might come down.
Thanks for unpacking what I meant, and much better than I would have.

Mind, I don't think you're right about mainstream Morrison; mostly a matter of repackaging the avantgarde Morrison ideas in spandex for the kiddywinkies.

[Reptisaurus!]

Thanks for unpacking what I meant, and much better than I would have.

Mind, I don't think you're right about mainstream Morrison; mostly a matter of repackaging the avantgarde Morrison ideas in spandex for the kiddywinkies.

There's some of that in JLA. I kind of read the whole thing as the evolution of humanity. They start out needing the protection of Godlike Authority Figures to "Catch them as they fall"...

Discover their/our own inner superhero,

and learn to look out for themselves.


But more than a philisophical vehicle, I think JLA was just Morrison playing around in the Fox/Wein science-fiction-thinly-disquised-as-superhero books that he loves. I don't see JLA as being as conceptually based as Invisibles, or Animal Man, or even X-men.

And I do think you're being too harsh on the "regular" DC fans. Morrison's stuff obviously ain't for everyone. (Though he's *my* favorite Mainstream comic writer, by a lot. It's much more Phillip K. Dick style science fiction than traditional superheroics, and in a lot of ways his scripting is, well, kinda weak. (His dialouge patterns tends to read the same for each character: His plots tend not to make much logical sense: And he has the damndest time getting artists to tell his stories in a comprehensible way, to name three major things.)

Sure, Berk's right taht "Identity Crisis" and it's children based on familiar comic books tropes, but they obviously still have resonance with both the audience and the writers to last in the comic-book-collective-unconcious (Sodaspeak) for so long. There's power in them there ideas, and superhero comics that utilize 'em... Even though, personally, as an obsessive long time comic nerd who loves novelty more than Anything, I'm not all that interested in seeing them repeated again.



...

Point Two: Anyone heard about possible/eventual trades? Feels like Seven Soldiers is being written for them, anyway.

[Tom]

I just finished Zatanna and The Guardian and little hearts are popping all around my head. LOVELOVELOVE. If it were physically possible, I would have Grant Morrison's baby.

As an aside, I'm apparently that most freakish and outlandish of fanboys: I liked Countdown too. It's almost like a left brain/right brain kinda thing. Seven Soldiers appeals to my sense of fun and imagination and Countdown appeals to my inner longterm fanboy.

[Tobias March]

I'm counting the minutes until Zatanna arrives in my store tomorrow. I love the backwards talking minette!

[CaptMagellan]

I really liked this ish. I'm loving all of the 7 Soldiers stuff. And Sook's art really shone here.

[Paul Newell]

Please try not to merge this one..sense I dont want it to be lost into the abyss that is the merge seven solider thread. Differnt mini seires differnt threads


I like it. I really SUPRISING and JARRING THE swithc from light humor to Darkness these mini series seem to be making. Really first part was funny with the old woman trap in the girl body then Zantana friend getting turn into Ash.

They did have some good charcter and made Zantana seem 3 dimminsional. I understand the need to power Zantana down but I hope not for the whole mini series because we never really seen her just go wild with her powers.


Don't know about the goth version of the Golden Child. Could be good or could be bad for the story.
It's "ZATANNA"...Not Zantana.

[Chris Thomas]

It's "ZATANNA"...Not Zantana.

You mean she is not related to 'dan tanna'? robert urich must be upset.

...

another solid 7 soldiers issue. I wish these were coming out faster. the art is fantastic so far (all the artists-esp the zatanna artist) and the plot is typically morrison obtuse--but not seaguy morrison obtuse

[Indigo Al]

I just finished Zatanna and The Guardian and little hearts are popping all around my head. LOVELOVELOVE. If it were physically possible, I would have Grant Morrison's baby.

As an aside, I'm apparently that most freakish and outlandish of fanboys: I liked Countdown too. It's almost like a left brain/right brain kinda thing. Seven Soldiers appeals to my sense of fun and imagination and Countdown appeals to my inner longterm fanboy.

I bet Morrison could figure out a way for you to birth his child using 5th dimensional Archons and metatext.....or something.....

Anyways, I thought Zatanna was terrific and I can breathe a sigh of relief. I was most worried about this one because I thought there might be a possibility that he would disrespect the character. Instead he made great and creative use of her and her abilities!


SRELIOPS WOLEB*******





Poor Zee, she's gotta avoid those tea parties at Baron Winters's mansion.

So she hooked up with Dr. 13, and now he's dead? Hmmm. Come to think of it, Dr.13 would have made a great 7th Soldier. Maybe someone will "take over the franchise".

And as for Apprentice Girl - I wonder what her deal will be?

[berk]

Paul McEnery said:
Mind, I don't think you're right about mainstream Morrison; mostly a matter of repackaging the avantgarde Morrison ideas in spandex for the kiddywinkies. Could be. I admit that I'm so turned off by the packaging that I haven't really tried to look inside too deeply. Which of course opens me up to the charge that I'm also missing all kinds of beneath-the-surface meaning in, say, Countdown to Infinite Crisis (by the way, doesn't the very title sound like a self-parody?).

And to Mark Andrew: I'm not trying to say I'm not a geek myself, or that that kind of story-telling doesn't have its own appeal. What I don't like is when it purports to be something else.

But enough of the negative. I read Zatanna, and it carries on the high quality of the other Seven Soldiers books. Morrison shows that you can write dialogue that sounds contemporary and still give each character his/her own voice. Good call on the SW and Promethea allusions, Mark Andrew.

Am I reading too much into the imagery if I suggest that the rabbit theme (rabbits = desire, lust) on the cover may foreshadow Zatanna's weakness in trying to conjure up "the man of her dreams" ? Which might make the opening scene, with Zatanna as a child, seem a little creepy, but sometimes "a cigar is just a cigar."

Is Gwydion just a name Morrison liked the sound of, or do you think it might give some clues to the nature of this character? In the Mabinogion he's a great warrior/magician, a shape-shifter, and a trickster-figure. He figures prominently in the story "Math, Son of Mathonwy."

[hellokittykat]

I really like Zatanna but when the solicit mentioned her on a reality type show I lost interest. What did you all think of it though? Is it worth picking up?

[Indigo Al]

I really like Zatanna but when the solicit mentioned her on a reality type show I lost interest. What did you all think of it though? Is it worth picking up?

hellokittykat, I urge, beg and plead you to try it! You Won't be disappointed. Well, at least not with this first issue. I too was worried that she would be mired in sleazy super-loserdom with the reality show, but she wasn't. Her portrayal was consistent with previous appearances, and the story is exciting and promises much greatness to come. Go for it! Drop another of your monthly titles if you need to. Support Seven Soldiers!!!!!!!!

[Indigo Al]

Is Gwydion just a name Morrison liked the sound of, or do you think it might give some clues to the nature of this character? In the Mabinogion he's a great warrior/magician, a shape-shifter, and a trickster-figure. He figures prominently in the story "Math, Son of Mathonwy."

Given how rife the overall 7 Soldiers plot is with Welsh mythology (Shining Knight alone for that matter), I'm sure it's related. It's funny, so many of these names are making me recall Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain....

[Forsaken_One]

I really like Zatanna but when the solicit mentioned her on a reality type show I lost interest. What did you all think of it though? Is it worth picking up?
Have you read any Morrison? Most people seem to think he's brilliant; if you're one of them you should probably get it. If you're like me and don't like his work that much it's probably best to avoid it.

[Kid Seven]

Just picked this up. I loved it. I love that there's distinct feels and voices for the three indvidual books out so far. This one actually might be my favorite. Sook's art had a lot to do with it; there were times when it looked a lot like Williams III from Promethea. Possibly why Morrison wanted him for this book, with it's 'other realms' and the like.

Good stuff.

[hellokittykat]

Thanks for input guys. I honestly can't remember if I have read anything by Morrison before, but I'll probably give it a try. ;)

[berk]

I was turned off by the reality show thing as well, but it isn't a big part of the issue.

But with Morrison, the term "reality show" - which, when you think of it outside of its usual (tv) context, is a pretty suggestive one - may well have been a subtle little indication of one of the things he's going to do with this series. But at such an early point in the story, that's all just speculation.

Ah, what the hell, I can't help myself. Now that I've noticed it, "reality show" is an incredibly evocative term: What is the world of visible phenomena but literally a "reality show" - i.e. the perceivable aspect (show) of the unknowable something (reality) that underlies it? No idea if Morrison is going in this direction or not; too early to tell. But at least I've found a reason to like a combination of words that has done nothing but annoy me up to now. "Reality show."

[Paul McEnery]

Not a reality show, but Letterman.

Interesting fun facts (courtesy of http://www.dcuguide.com)

Ibis and Taia were both Fawcett characters, displaced through time from 12th Century BC Egypt. (Fate reference?)

Timothy Ravenwind has apparently been around since 1973, and was used in the Morrison/Miller Swamp Thing.

Each of them (and Terry, too) was knowledge-based. (Note connection between Ibis and Thoth.) Hmm...

So, tiny bit of a stab at Promethea, here, I think, as communicating knowledge-based magic, while at the same time connecting magic to M-theory and superstring theory.

[Tobias March]

I quite liked this issue. A nice respite from my Promethea withdrawel....do bad things always happen at seances in Morrison's comics - see The Invisibles with the Hand of Glory episode!

Also the little girl, just a theory, but in creating our Welsh sounding Nemesis, did Zatanna also create a proportional female aspect of her own innocence - 'Apprentice Girl'?

Obvious question - is Gimmix now a Fetch?

[berk]

Not a reality show, but Letterman. I really should check these things before letting my imagination run away with me this way. Ah well, live and learn.

Interesting point re the knowledge-based connections among Zatanna's comrades on the ill-fated journey. I don't know much about the history of magic. Is there a tradition separate from or in some way rivalling the Thoth/Hermes Trismegistus one?

[Tobias March]

I really should check these things before letting my imagination run away with me this way. Ah well, live and learn.

Interesting point re the knowledge-based connections among Zatanna's comrades on the ill-fated journey. I don't know much about the history of magic. Is there a tradition separate from or in some way rivalling the Thoth/Hermes Trismegistus one?

Well any Crowleyan tradition does sample nearly all the traditions, so kabbalism, suffism, gnostic texts and Giordano Di Bruno's readings of the Hermes texts all get a look in.

[Lex]

Zatanna #1 was awesome! It's about time we see a magic story that shows just how weird magic can be. I sometimes feel like writers take a scientific aprouch to writing magic. But leave it to Morrison to show off the craziness in magic. Yay!

And I loved the appearances of all these obscure magic characters! Ibis the Invincible, Taia, Ravenwind, Prince Ra-Man... ahem, King Ra-Man! And it was great to see Dr. Thirteen. He's fun in that he's always trying to solve these magical cases, but doesn't believe in magic at all.

Man, this was a great issue. It's almost better than Guardian #1 (hey, it's hard to beat Subway Pirates).

Seven Soldiers makes me happy!

[Jamie]

Obvious question - is Gimmix now a Fetch?

Obvious answer(*g*) -- this takes place before Seven Soldiers #0; that's what Gimmix is referring to when she talks about why she won't be at the next meeting. She's heading "out West" to join up with the ill-fated SSoV.

[Grant]

Obvious answer(*g*) -- this takes place before Seven Soldiers #0; that's what Gimmix is referring to when she talks about why she won't be at the next meeting. She's heading "out West" to join up with the ill-fated SSoV.

The fact she names drop Zatanna when she meets them for the first time is a pretty good clue.

[TCJohnson]

But didn't she mention what happened to her in Seven Soldier's #0? They mentioned about being sexually molested by shape shifting aliens. That is what is confusing me.

[Grant]

But didn't she mention what happened to her in Seven Soldier's #0? They mentioned about being sexually molested by shape shifting aliens. That is what is confusing me.

No that was a seperate incident. She mentions being molested by a monster in Seven Soliders when she first meets the team. Right after name dropping Zantanna.

-Grant

[kossori]

Tsuj daer annataz. weiver lliw eb gnimochtrof. I lliw yas taht I yllaer dekil ti.

[Grant]

Tsuj daer annataz. weiver lliw eb gnimochtrof. I lliw yas taht I yllaer dekil it.

Yllanosrep, I thguoht ti saw gnikcuf emosewa flesym.

[Kid Seven]

This is making my eyes hurt. :rolleyes:

[Lex]

Heh. Uoy syug kcor!

[Reptisaurus!]

Yeah, see, this is why I $%^&ing hate Zatanna.

[kossori]

And here's my review:
Zatanna #1 (http://reprep.blogspot.com/2005/04/review-zatanna-1.html)

[Paul McEnery]

I really should check these things before letting my imagination run away with me this way. Ah well, live and learn.

Interesting point re the knowledge-based connections among Zatanna's comrades on the ill-fated journey. I don't know much about the history of magic. Is there a tradition separate from or in some way rivalling the Thoth/Hermes Trismegistus one?
You could reasonably say that Chaos Magic supercedes that tradition, replacing it with an imagination/experience-based magic. In Chaos Magic, you can do anything you like, so long as it works.

You'll notice that in the Promethea model, it's all tradition-based, with very set and over-determined systems (particularly in the last issue, where you've got colours, planets, gemstones, and god knows what else each related to specific kabalistic trumps.

Whereas Grant's always been about making up your own symbols and working it out from there.

Extra bonus points for anyone spotting the connection back to Doom Patrol with the six-sided sun.

[Grant]

Yeah, see, this is why I $%^&ing hate Zatanna.

Og ot lleh! S'ehs yllaer toh. Yhw t'nod uoy daer emos dlo Nam-redips kcab seussi gnirutaef NorgetS eht ruasonid nam resol! ;)

[kossori]

Won, won!! s'tel ton teg deirrac yawa ereh... enoyreve si deltitne ot rieht nwo snoinipo, neve fi yeht yam mees hsrah.
M'i yrros taht WerdnaKram sleef taht yaw tub ti si sih eciohc.

I epoh eh did evig eht koob a ecnahc, revewoh, sa ti yllaer si a doog daer.

[Indigo Al]

I quite liked this issue. A nice respite from my Promethea withdrawel....do bad things always happen at seances in Morrison's comics - see The Invisibles with the Hand of Glory episode!

Also the little girl, just a theory, but in creating our Welsh sounding Nemesis, did Zatanna also create a proportional female aspect of her own innocence - 'Apprentice Girl'?


I definitely suspect she's some kind of familiar or homunculus inadvertantly created by Zee. Maybe the key to defeating The Man of Her Dreams? And why does she look like Emily the Strange (http://www.emilystrange.com/) ?

Some other points/questions:

1) DO you think the seance crew really is dead? When Z says "only magic can put it right again" does that mean she can revive them? I'm sure DC at least doesn't want to let go of Dr. 13 so easily.

2) Apart from Apprentice Girl and Gimmix, are any of the other loser-heroes at all recognizable or based on other characters?

[kossori]

I definitely suspect she's some kind of familiar or homunculus inadvertantly created by Zee. Maybe the key to defeating The Man of Her Dreams? And why does she look like Emily the Strange (http://www.emilystrange.com/) ?

Some other points/questions:

1) DO you think the seance crew really is dead? When Z says "only magic can put it right again" does that mean she can revive them? I'm sure DC at least doesn't want to let go of Dr. 13 so easily.

I dunno... Has Dr. 13 even been used lately? However, maybe she can fix it.

2) Apart from Apprentice Girl and Gimmix, are any of the other loser-heroes at all recognizable or based on other characters?

The old woman trapped in a young girl's body reminded me of Yellow Peri.
None of the others seemed familiar.

I agree that Misty may be what you say, but it also would be nice if she wasn't. Then Zee would have a supporting cast member and by having someone below her she'll have to look at herself with more respect.

[Apathy Boy]

I think publishing both at the same time was a great idea.
They're totally different attempts of storytelling and people will most definitely like one or the other.

Not many will like both.

SSoV is more storytelling and fun while IC is more pizazz and hype.

SSoV will appeal to those who prefer story over stars. IC will draw in the fanboys.Ugh. What an awful, elitist attitude.

Do you know what's the ultimate expression of fanboyism? Denigrating people who like one book while snobbishly proclaiming yourself as superior because you like a different book.

[Paul Newell]

Ugh. What an awful, elitist attitude.

Do you know what's the ultimate expression of fanboyism? Denigrating people who like one book while snobbishly proclaiming yourself as superior because you like a different book.
Where exactly in that quote did kossori "snobbishly proclaim himself as superior because he likes a different book" may I ask?

He thought the style of writing was different and he didn't think that many people would like both.

[Apathy Boy]

Where exactly in that quote did kossori "snobbishly proclaim himself as superior because he likes a different book" may I ask?

He thought the style of writing was different and he didn't think that many people would like both.It sounded to me that kossori was saying that people who like SEVEN SOLDIERS value storytelling and that people who like DC COUNTDOWN/INFINITE CRISIS are fanboys who buy into hype. That's an elitist line of thinking, with kossori including him/herself in the higher group.

However, it's entirely possible I just had a knee-jerk reaction. If kossori's comments were intended how Paul perceived them, I apologize.

[kossori]

To put it a different way...

Infinite Crisis is to Seven Soldiers what Britney Spears, 50-Cent and Eminem are to Tori Amos, Iron & Wine and Death Cab For Cutie.

One's designed to make money, the other to be creative.

Doesn't mean one's better than the other.
Just that they're aimed at different audiences.

[kossori]

BTW... Did anyone else get a Vincent Price vibe from Baron Winter?

[Apathy Boy]

To put it a different way...

Infinite Crisis is to Seven Soldiers what Britney Spears, 50-Cent and Eminem are to Tori Amos, Iron & Wine and Death Cab For Cutie.

One's designed to make money, the other to be creative.

Doesn't mean one's better than the other.
Just that they're aimed at different audiences.Oh, crap. I hate looking like a jerk.

Sorry, kossori. Totally misread your comments.

[kossori]

It's okay.

For the record, I will be picking up The Rann/Thanagar War and quite possibly Villains United.

[TJ Shoun]

I must be the only one who thought Zatanna #1 was boring.

Average art, uninteresting characters, and overly obtuse dialogue.

Maybe I'll like it better when I see how it fits into the overall picture.

But right now, I ain't impressed.

[kossori]

How's this (http://www.herorealm.com/images/April/DC/DCU_lorez/SevenSoldiersZatannaCv3.jpg)?

[Doug Strange]

2) Apart from Apprentice Girl and Gimmix, are any of the other loser-heroes at all recognizable or based on other characters?The young man that tries to give Z a ride home mentions his "Mindgrabber Car," which leads me to believe that he may be the Mindgrabber Kid.

Who I think is AWESOME and demands his own solo series STAT.

[Lex]

The young man that tries to give Z a ride home mentions his "Mindgrabber Car," which leads me to believe that he may be the Mindgrabber Kid.

Who I think is AWESOME and demands his own solo series STAT.

Morrison previously mentioned that Mindgrabber Kid was one of the obscure characters that he was revamping for a cameo appearance in Seven Soldiers. To me, that means that we haven't seen the last of Mindgabber Kid. I'm sure he'll pop up again, maybe in Zatanna or maybe one of the other series.

And I certainly wouldn't complain about a Mindgrabber Kid mini written by Morrison. :)

[Captain Blitz]

How's this (http://www.herorealm.com/images/April/DC/DCU_lorez/SevenSoldiersZatannaCv3.jpg)?

Bad, because the link´s broken. ;)

[Lex]

Bad, because the link´s broken. ;)

They had to take all those July covers down, I think.

[Doug Strange]

Morrison previously mentioned that Mindgrabber Kid was one of the obscure characters that he was revamping for a cameo appearance in Seven Soldiers. To me, that means that we haven't seen the last of Mindgabber Kid. I'm sure he'll pop up again, maybe in Zatanna or maybe one of the other series.Oh, neat. Where'd you hear that? What were the other characters he listed?

[Bat-Mite]

Who the heck is Mindgrabber Kid?

[Lex]

Who the heck is Mindgrabber Kid?

I found this about him:

"[Mind-Grabber Kid] was an adolescent super-hero wannabe, who -- after being upstaged in the foiling of a common, garden- variety bank robbery by the televised broadcast of the Justice League in team action -- used his nascent telepathic abilities to lure powerful and good-hearted (if startling naive, certainly) aliens to Earth, under the pretext that the JLA was, in actually, a repressive super-regime of planetary proportions."

I'm not sure if he has appeared anywhere after that.

[Tobias March]

I found this about him:

"[Mind-Grabber Kid] was an adolescent super-hero wannabe, who -- after being upstaged in the foiling of a common, garden- variety bank robbery by the televised broadcast of the Justice League in team action -- used his nascent telepathic abilities to lure powerful and good-hearted (if startling naive, certainly) aliens to Earth, under the pretext that the JLA was, in actually, a repressive super-regime of planetary proportions."

I'm not sure if he has appeared anywhere after that.

Hey I think I remember him - there was this ancient Pickwick English annual of DCU heroes I got when I was a kid....I think there was a Mind-Grabber Kid in it, but he had a huge helmet? Perhaps the mind-grabber car is now his 'helmet'.

I do think a hero who was essentially a kid who cobbled together a tp device is just the thing for Grant to mess with. Hope he's back again.

(Didn't he get honourary membership of the Justice League?)

[Lex]

Oh, neat. Where'd you hear that? What were the other characters he listed?

There was a DC Horizon issue devoted to Seven Soldiers (Horizon, if you've never heard of it, is a free insert of DC preview stuff that your comic book store can give you).

Morrison had written an article for it. In that article, he mentioned how he was "dusting off" some old DC properties like the Newsboy Legion (now "Newsboy Army" as seen in Guardian #1) and Mind-Grabber Kid. Before that article, he had mentioned his updates for the Spider and the Whip (both of those were seen in Seven Soldiers #0). And he has mentioned 10 other reimaginings of old characters. I think Gimmix, Boy Blue and Dyno-Mite Dan might be three of those ten reimaginings. We should be seeing more poping up randomly throughout Seven Soldiers.

[Tobias March]

Oh yeah, another point in favour of Zatanna happening before #0 - was that Blue Boy sitting in the circle of low self-esteem heroes? I think he was just sitting on the edge.

[Lex]

Oh yeah, another point in favour of Zatanna happening before #0 - was that Blue Boy sitting in the circle of low self-esteem heroes? I think he was just sitting on the edge.

That person in the circle looked more like a ghost to me. You can tell that Boy Blue us wearing a costume in #0. And, I'm betting that Gimmix is the only person from that group who knew about Vigilante's group.

[Doug Strange]

Awesome, Lex.

Did anybody else think that MindGrabber Kid might turn out to be the result of Z's spell?

Or is that too corny?

[Bat-Mite]

Thanks for the explanation.

Hey, Google Image Search found a pic of him:

http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/silverage/MindGrabberKid-JLA70.JPG

[kossori]

Cool. Thanks for sharing!

[Paradox]

...

Mind-Grabber Kid also makes a significant appearance in CBR's own Kurt "Cei-u" Mitchell's unpublished novel "Lash House", which is definitely a book worth reading if you can talk him into emailing you a copy.

[Doug Strange]

...

Mind-Grabber Kid also makes a significant appearance in CBR's own Kurt "Cei-u" Mitchell's unpublished novel "Lash House", which is definitely a book worth reading if you can talk him into emailing you a copy.Well, this validates my fascination, I'd say.

I actually have a copy. I'm just waiting until I can remember to get some copy paper to print it out. I tried reading it on the computer, but I couldn't do it. My attention span is too

[Kid Seven]

I have to say, the first bookend and three issues in now, and I couldn't be happier with how Seven Soldiers is progressing. I'm mighty impressed with Morrison's job, and with the wealth of artistic talent involved in this (my personal favorite being Williams III).

[kossori]

Klarion #1 preview (http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/042005/klarion1cvr.html)

[datsyuk]

I haven't seen any info to suggest that Zatanna's character will change at all. The only thing we know for sure is that she's getting a slight costume modification and going on a quest (with a new apprentice) to find her dad's 4 lost magic books.

That doesn't sound bad at all.


I've heard the sme thing actually.

[Lex]

I'm just bumping this because Klarion #1 is being released tomorrow.

[kossori]

Too bad they aren't "sticky"-ing this thread every two weeks, like they are for the Crisis stuff.

[Lex]

Klarion #1 preview (http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/042005/klarion1cvr.html)

I just looked at this for the first time and I thought it was really cool! So, when a person in this culture dies, their offspring will raises him/her from the dead to be a slave? Wow. And, did I see that right? Did they call that person they just raised a "Grundy?"

Man, there was a lot of coolness in those four pages.

[Paul McEnery]

Too bad they aren't "sticky"-ing this thread every two weeks, like they are for the Crisis stuff.
Lobby Paul, and maybe he will.

[Captain Jim]

You got it. I'll stick it for a week.

[Kid Seven]

Klarion's out today. I picked it up and really liked it. I knew Grant would have a field day with the Gothic/Horror theme of Klarion, and he really goes to town on some of the really inventive ideas; one, the 'Grundy' has been talked about already here.

Frazer Irving's an artist I'm not at all familiar with, but his art really did it for in this story. Cartoony at times, dark, very atmospheric, and a feathery aproach to the inking that made it look a little like woodcuts. Great stuff. And even more impressive is the fact that he did the art and colored the thing as well.

Kudos all around. Looking forward to the next one.

[Forsaken_One]

I have to say, I was shocked; I actually liked this comic. As in liked it enough to pick up the next one. Which is weird because I didn't like any of the other Seven Soldier miniseries enough to keep paying good money. I don't know if it was the anti-establishment nature, the interesting idea of the Grundies, or the absolutely beautiful and appropriate art and color pallet but this issue was really, really good. I'd go into more but... eh, I'm lazy. Still, I find it suprising that the one defininte reconception (I seriously doubt the old Klarion bum bum BUM the Witch Boy is still around like Guardian or Shining Knight are) is the best of the lot for me.

It probably helped that despite it being set in another universe this was probably the least out-there world of all of the minis. Even the Grundies are more understandable for me than freaking subway pirates.

[Karl J. Barnes]

This is why I think that this "event" should get as much press as it can get. A character that I had no affection or interest in, was so fascinating to read about! I loved the first issue and can't wait for the subsequent issues to come out. So far all the Seven Soldiers books have been top drawer.

[Wesley Dodds]

I picked up the first five comics today. I'm in love. This is Grant Morrison doing his best work. And, for the record, I was proud of myself when I realised that was supposed to be "Merry, Girl of 1000 Gimmicks".

[berk]

Read Klarion. Good job again by Morrison. The art was interesting and very well-suited to the acharacter and his world. So far I think htis one and the Zatanna book have the best artwork. The weakest is probably in Guardian, where it isn't really bad, just a little bland. This is all just a matter of personal taste, of course; I'm not an artist myself and can only judge it by its effect on me.

I went back and read a few issues of Kirby's old Demon series after reading Klarion #1, just to refresh my memory. Morrison didn't contradict anything in the spirit or letter of Kirby's stories, as far as I can tell at a glance, except for the obvious change in POV of Klarion. In the Demon, he's a villain, although an ambivalent one in that the people who're after him are pretty sinister and scary themselves. But in his 2nd story, there's no doubt that he means harm to Jason Blood and the Demon. I don't mind this being ignored or explained away somehow, though, if it makes for a good story. I'm more irritated when I see heroic or sympathetic characters changed into villains than I am with the reverse situation.

Reading Demon #1, it struck me that its opening pages are paralleled by those of Shining Knight #1; in each book, the first scene is the fall of Camelot at the hands of the attacking army of Morgaine le Fay (Demon) or Morgayne (Shining Knight). Wonder if this means we'll see other connections with Kirby's Demon series, e.g. Merlin. Would've been interesting if Morrison had chosen to make Jason Blood/the Demon one of the Seven Soldiers, but I guess the character was already taken for the Byrne series. Too bad, I always thought the concept had a lot of potential. Maybe he wasn't obscure enough, anyway. Kirby's artwork in the scene in Demon #1 is fantastic, by the way. I'd forgotten that scene.

[TCJohnson]

Does anybody know where the word Croatoan comes from?

[TCJohnson]

I went back and read a few issues of Kirby's old Demon series after reading Klarion #1, just to refresh my memory. Morrison didn't contradict anything in the spirit or letter of Kirby's stories, as far as I can tell at a glance, except for the obvious change in POV of Klarion. In the Demon, he's a villain, although an ambivalent one in that the people who're after him are pretty sinister and scary themselves. But in his 2nd story, there's no doubt that he means harm to Jason Blood and the Demon. I don't mind this being ignored or explained away somehow, though, if it makes for a good story. I'm more irritated when I see heroic or sympathetic characters changed into villains than I am with the reverse situation.


I just took it that Klarion has aged quite a bit since the demon issues. In the Demon he was a young boy, maybe physically 10. Now he is a teenager, almost a man. Everybody's POV changes in those years.

[Matches Malone]

Does anybody know where the word Croatoan comes from?

The Lost Colony, right? That's the word that was scribbled on a tree after the LC vanished.

[TCJohnson]

The Lost Colony, right? That's the word that was scribbled on a tree after