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Ben Morse
07-02-2009, 02:31 PM
It's the ultimate Dark Reign showdown: Norman Osborn vs Spider-Man!

http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.8622.Making_the_List~colon~_Dan_Slott

James Conniff
07-02-2009, 03:17 PM
The fight my inner child has been waiting for. After the number of confrontations these two have had over the past year, this fight should be pretty epic. Though I wonder what exactly will come of this fight...this is the brawl I was expecting at the very end of Norman's Dark Reign.

steveg887
07-02-2009, 03:27 PM
This is going to be sick. Who doesn't love a good old-fashioned Spidey/Green Goblin brawl? The last one I can remember was back in Jenkins' run.

I'm gonna pick up this one, Avengers (a possible DA/NA throwdown), and Wolverine (Fantomex, Wolvie, and Noh-Varr going head-to-head-to-head).

Really excited for these one-shots.

yadadaimhollaing
07-02-2009, 03:30 PM
not really super excited over the preview art

http://marvel.com/i/content/8622458163_full6560202.jpg

http://marvel.com/i/content/st/8622new_storyimage6560130_full.jpg

steveg887
07-02-2009, 03:35 PM
not really super excited over the preview art

Are we sure that those are from the comic? The other two images weren't, and those pictures don't really look like Kubert's work.

NowTheWorld
07-02-2009, 04:40 PM
Those aren't preview images.

Ben Morse
07-02-2009, 05:13 PM
Those aren't preview images.

Correct. They were just stock images I used to fill the article as I generally do when we don't have preview art ready to display.

As a rule over at Marvel.com, when we use actual preview art we try to label it as such and credit the artist.

No caption=Not preview art. :biggrin:

classicgmer
07-02-2009, 05:16 PM
The fight my inner child has been waiting for. After the number of confrontations these two have had over the past year, this fight should be pretty epic. Though I wonder what exactly will come of this fight...this is the brawl I was expecting at the very end of Norman's Dark Reign.





I'm not sure why you'd expect a Norman vs Spider-man fight at the very end of Dark Reign seeing as how Dark Reign isn't a story that revolves around Spider-man..................not sure why people can't wrap their heads around that:confused: I get that Norman is Spider-man's/Peter's greatest enemy but the Dark Reign story is so much bigger than that.



Anyhow I'll probably wait to see what the relavence of this story is to the larger DR story to decide whether or not it warrants me breaking my boycott on ASM (although is this 1 shot technically ASM?)

James Conniff
07-02-2009, 05:26 PM
I'm not sure why you'd expect a Norman vs Spider-man fight at the very end of Dark Reign seeing as how Dark Reign isn't a story that revolves around Spider-man..................not sure why people can't wrap their heads around that:confused: I get that Norman is Spider-man's/Peter's greatest enemy but the Dark Reign story is so much bigger than that.
Maybe expecting wasn't the right word, how about hoping?
I fully understand that this story arc is much bigger than Spider-man. This is an avengers heavy Marvel Universe status quo , but being familiar with the medium and how these events tend to come to a close with fisticuffs and big fight scenes I'd want Spider-man to be the one who goes toe to toe with his old foe at the end. I'd also like to see him being involved in the planning process when it comes to taking Osborn down as well.
With Norman being the big bad in the universe, and Spider-man knowing him better than any other hero on the planet, I'm making the educated guess that he'll be involved in Norman's downfall...it's my inner fanboy who wants to see Spidey ripping Osborn a new one as the status quo ends.

classicgmer
07-02-2009, 05:44 PM
Maybe expecting wasn't the right word, how about hoping?
I fully understand that this story arc is much bigger than Spider-man. This is an avengers heavy Marvel Universe status quo , but being familiar with the medium and how these events tend to come to a close with fisticuffs and big fight scenes I'd want Spider-man to be the one who goes toe to toe with his old foe at the end. I'd also like to see him being involved in the planning process when it comes to taking Osborn down as well.
With Norman being the big bad in the universe, and Spider-man knowing him better than any other hero on the planet, I'm making the educated guess that he'll be involved in Norman's downfall...it's my inner fanboy who wants to see Spidey ripping Osborn a new one as the status quo ends.



I think Spidey will have a pretty big role in Norman's eventual downfall but I just think that there are too many other players with a vested interest in bringing Norman down for it to simply come down to a solo Spidey vs Norman fight.



Personally I've seen Spidey pound the crap out of Norman waaaaaaay to many times for me to be really excited about another one even if this time Norman is king of the world and to add to that I don't expect to see Norman shelved for a long time after this is all said and done so I wouldn't see it any differently from their other fights.



I really think that a collaborative effort with Clint, Tony and Spidey is the ultimate fight we'll see to end this thing and I'll end up happy with that personally:cool: :biggrin:

Rob Thompson
07-02-2009, 07:28 PM
This is going to be sick. Who doesn't love a good old-fashioned Spidey/Green Goblin brawl? *Raises hand*

Really? Yet another confrontation between the Goblin and Spider-Man? If the Goblin was used sparingly, perhaps, but it seems every writer wants to stage their version of this fight every other year -- at best. Shoot, we just had a version of this fight in NWTD.

Just not doing anything for me.

RDMacQ
07-02-2009, 07:52 PM
*Raises hand*

Really? Yet another confrontation between the Goblin and Spider-Man? If the Goblin was used sparingly, perhaps, but it seems every writer wants to stage their version of this fight every other year -- at best. Shoot, we just had a version of this fight in NWTD.

Just not doing anything for me.

Its not Spidey .vs. the Green Goblin this time around.

It's Spidey .vs. the IRON PATRIOT!!!!

It's a COMPLETELY different situation.

steveg887
07-02-2009, 07:53 PM
*Raises hand*

Really? Yet another confrontation between the Goblin and Spider-Man? If the Goblin was used sparingly, perhaps, but it seems every writer wants to stage their version of this fight every other year -- at best. Shoot, we just had a version of this fight in NWTD.

Just not doing anything for me.

First the Iron Spider costume, now this. So help me God, Jim, if you say you hate the web pits, we're going to have a serious problem on our hands.

But your complaint is understandable. The thing is, though, I don't see this as an ordinary fight. The fact that Osborn now has the keys to the kingdom makes me think that things will go down differently this time. Perhaps it'll be like the others versions that have been done ad nauseam, but I have faith in Slott to keep things fresh and different given the change in status quo.

Or maybe Norman will just throw some pumpkin bombs, and Spidey will have clever rejoinders.


Its not Spidey .vs. the Green Goblin this time around.

It's Spidey .vs. the IRON PATRIOT!!!!

It's a COMPLETELY different situation.

Ha, you know what's funny? I didn't even consider that he'd be in the IP armor. For some reason, my mind went right to him being in the goblin gear.

Rob Thompson
07-02-2009, 07:53 PM
Its not Spidey .vs. the Green Goblin this time around.

It's Spidey .vs. the IRON PATRIOT!!!!

It's a COMPLETELY different situation.Sure.

I'm not looking forward to this at all.

Now Peter's upcoming confrontation with Doc Ock, on the other hand... :biggrin:

Rob Thompson
07-02-2009, 07:55 PM
First the Iron Spider costume, now this. So help me God, Jim, if you say you hate the web pits, we're going to have a serious problem on our hands.

The web pits always seemed sort of silly (and expendable, depending on who was drawing the character), but they never really bothered me. Seems like they'd get in the way of Spidey's movements sometimes.

RDMacQ
07-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Ha, you know what's funny? I didn't even consider that he'd be in the IP armor. For some reason, my mind went right to him being in the goblin gear.

I think we might not be seeing Norman in the Goblin costume until at least the big event that Marvel is planning.

Or at the very least, Norman would start wearing the Goblin suit under the Iron Patriot armor. Bonus points if he doesn't even realize he is doing it.

RDMacQ
07-02-2009, 08:04 PM
The web pits always seemed sort of silly (and expendable, depending on who was drawing the character), but they never really bothered me. Seems like they'd get in the way of Spidey's movements sometimes.

Well, some skydivers have light fabric on their outfits like Spider-Man's web pits to help them control and guide their movements in the air. With that thinking, it wouldn't be unreasonable to rationalize Spidey's web pits operating under the same principle, helping him to adjust his free falls and leaps when he is criss crossing across the Manhattan skyline.

Rob Thompson
07-02-2009, 08:38 PM
Well, some skydivers have light fabric on their outfits like Spider-Man's web pits to help them control and guide their movements in the air. With that thinking, it wouldn't be unreasonable to rationalize Spidey's web pits operating under the same principle, helping him to adjust his free falls and leaps when he is criss crossing across the Manhattan skyline.Spider Woman is going to sue him!

RDMacQ
07-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Spider Woman is going to sue him!

He had's da' pits foist's!!!

Dr. Chaos
07-02-2009, 09:30 PM
Marvel.com: When it comes to the list items, some Norman brings to the public's attention and others he chooses not to. Is this a public thing or is this so personal that he wants to keep this one to himself?

Dan Slott: When Norman comes into contact with Spider-Man in DARK REIGN: THE LIST—AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, Norman is going to have a very specific reason for wanting to take Spider-Man out and wanting to take Spider-Man out now! He always wants to take Spider-Man out.

"What am I going to do today? I think I'll kill Spider-Man." But this isn't "I want to kill Spider-Man," this is "I need to kill Spider-Man."

I still say Peter is going to perform a lil inadvertent Falcon Punch action on Lilly's stomach.

yadadaimhollaing
07-02-2009, 10:54 PM
*Raises hand*

Really? Yet another confrontation between the Goblin and Spider-Man? If the Goblin was used sparingly, perhaps, but it seems every writer wants to stage their version of this fight every other year -- at best. Shoot, we just had a version of this fight in NWTD.

Just not doing anything for me.

Just another post highlighting things i view the same way. You, like me, view doc ock as the real arch nemesis to peter, and you are sick of norman osborn and thinks he should stay dead. Please i dont need another green patriot story. Oh well, ill be buying this one shot.

ZeoVGM
07-03-2009, 12:27 AM
Really? Yet another confrontation between the Goblin and Spider-Man?

You say this like it happens it all the time, but then you mention NWTD as the last time they fought, and that will over a year ago by the time this one-shot comes out.

And before that, when was the last time Spidey and the Goblin fought?

It makes sense that it would happen sometimes, considering the position Norman is in.


If the Goblin was used sparingly, perhaps,

In Spidey's own book, he IS using sparingly. They've used him, what, twice in the past year? Then a third time later in the year in a one-shot issue?

Again, it wouldn't make sense to have them not go at it a couple times, because of the position Norman is in. It would be bad writing to ignore that.


but it seems every writer wants to stage their version of this fight every other year -- at best.

Again, what are you talking about? Where else has this happened over the like, let's just say 4-5 years? The "every writer" thing doesn't make much sense either. The last time we had a Spidey vs. Goblin fight was Dan Slott a year ago. We might have a fight in the last issue of American Son and that's Kelly. Then the next time will be in October/November and it's back to Dan Slott.


Shoot, we just had a version of this fight in NWTD.

"Just"? Again, it will be a year ago in about a month. And the next full fledged Spidey vs. Goblin fight will end up being over a year after NWTD. Plus, it will be Spidey vs. Iron Patriot, a fight that has yet to happen. A fight that NEEDS to happen.

Rob Thompson
07-03-2009, 05:59 AM
You say this like it happens it all the time, but then you mention NWTD as the last time they fought, and that will over a year ago by the time this one-shot comes out.

And before that, when was the last time Spidey and the Goblin fought?

It makes sense that it would happen sometimes, considering the position Norman is in.



In Spidey's own book, he IS using sparingly. They've used him, what, twice in the past year? Then a third time later in the year in a one-shot issue?

Again, it wouldn't make sense to have them not go at it a couple times, because of the position Norman is in. It would be bad writing to ignore that.



Again, what are you talking about? Where else has this happened over the like, let's just say 4-5 years? The "every writer" thing doesn't make much sense either. The last time we had a Spidey vs. Goblin fight was Dan Slott a year ago. We might have a fight in the last issue of American Son and that's Kelly. Then the next time will be in October/November and it's back to Dan Slott.



"Just"? Again, it will be a year ago in about a month. And the next full fledged Spidey vs. Goblin fight will end up being over a year after NWTD. Plus, it will be Spidey vs. Iron Patriot, a fight that has yet to happen. A fight that NEEDS to happen.Are you serious with this? Name me another Spider-Man villain that gets half the attention Osborn has received over the past 20 years? Part of the reason I think Ock's return is interesting is because we haven't seen him in a while.

BTW -- isn't Spider-Man currently taking on Osborn in ASM?

Andrew T
07-03-2009, 03:27 PM
Bonus points if he doesn't even realize he is doing it.

That would be awesome.

yadadaimhollaing
07-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Correct. They were just stock images I used to fill the article as I generally do when we don't have preview art ready to display.

As a rule over at Marvel.com, when we use actual preview art we try to label it as such and credit the artist.

No caption=Not preview art. :biggrin:

AH thanks for the info. that gives me hope the art will be awesome

ZeoVGM
07-03-2009, 07:45 PM
Are you serious with this? Name me another Spider-Man villain that gets half the attention Osborn has received over the past 20 years? Part of the reason I think Ock's return is interesting is because we haven't seen him in a while.

BTW -- isn't Spider-Man currently taking on Osborn in ASM?

Yeah, you completely ignored any point I made.

So I'll restate it, as it is incredibly valid.

- He fought him as Goblin once a little under a year ago.

- He had a very quick fight in the last issue. We'll have to see where it goes in the final part of American Son.

- After that, their next fight will be over a year after New Ways to Die.

That is 3 times in the span of 14-15 months. You could argue that is a lot but the fact of the matter is that it would be bad writing to not have Spidey vs. Norman in the climate of Dark Reign. His mortal enemy is pretty much running the country and you think fighting 3 times (one as Goblin, one as Norman, and one as Iron Patriot -- a fight that has yet to happen and lots of people want to see) is too much?

It makes sense to have them going at it a few times.

When before NWTD did they fight? And when before that? It is NOT often.

Rob Thompson
07-03-2009, 07:54 PM
Yeah, you completely ignored any point I made.

So I'll restate it, as it is incredibly valid.

- He fought him as Goblin once a little under a year ago.

- He had a very quick fight in the last issue. We'll have to see where it goes in the final part of American Son.

- After that, their next fight will be over a year after New Ways to Die.

That is 3 times in the span of 14-15 months. You could argue that is a lot but the fact of the matter is that it would be bad writing to not have Spidey vs. Norman in the climate of Dark Reign. His mortal enemy is pretty much running the country and you think fighting 3 times (one as Goblin, one as Norman, and one as Iron Patriot -- a fight that has yet to happen and lots of people want to see) is too much?

It makes sense to have them going at it a few times.

When before NWTD did they fight? And when before that? It is NOT often.So in other words, it doesn't count as a fight for you unless Norman is in costume?

BTW, I don't find your point valid at all. Norman was featured prominently since his return in the 90s. He's never been absent for more than two years during that time, if that long. Heck, even JMS managed to work him in. Marvel Knights, the Gathering of the Five, The Revenge of the Green Goblin, etc. -- the Goblin's never been far from Spidey.

And you didn't answer my question: What other villain has even had half the page count that Norman gets in Spider-Man books?

RDMacQ
07-03-2009, 08:05 PM
So in other words, it doesn't count as a fight for you unless Norman is in costume?

BTW, I don't find your point valid at all. Norman was featured prominently since his return in the 90s. He's never been absent for more than two years during that time, if that long. Heck, even JMS managed to work him in. Marvel Knights, the Gathering of the Five, The Revenge of the Green Goblin, etc. -- the Goblin's never been far from Spidey.

And you didn't answer my question: What other villain has even had half the page count that Norman gets in Spider-Man books?

I'd say Venom's a close second, with Doc Ock coming up a close third. Which is appropriate given they are two of the biggest villains in Spidey's rogues gallery.

ZeoVGM
07-03-2009, 08:11 PM
BTW, I don't find your point valid at all. Norman was featured prominently since his return in the 90s. He's never been absent for more than two years during that time, if that long. Heck, even JMS managed to work him in. Marvel Knights, the Gathering of the Five, The Revenge of the Green Goblin, etc. -- the Goblin's never been far from Spidey.

Gathering of the Five - 1998
Revenge of the Green Goblin - 2000
Knights - 2004/2005
New Ways to Die - 2008
American Son - 2009
The List one-shot - 2009

Please feel free to fill in the blanks for the past 10 years of Peter vs. Norman stuff. Maybe I'm forgetting some?

And no, Goblin has never been "far" from Spidey. He shouldn't be. Goblin is his arch-nemesis. But what I just listed? That is far from the exaggerated point you're trying to make.

And for the third time, it makes sense to have it happen more often for the past year. It would be bad writing otherwise and that's a simple fact.

The Confessor
07-03-2009, 08:55 PM
Those aren't preview images.


http://marvel.com/i/content/8622458163_full6560202.jpg


Quite right. That first picture is a cover from issue #5 of The Pulse from some years back.

yadadaimhollaing
07-03-2009, 09:38 PM
Yeah, you completely ignored any point I made.

So I'll restate it, as it is incredibly valid.

- He fought him as Goblin once a little under a year ago.

- He had a very quick fight in the last issue. We'll have to see where it goes in the final part of American Son.

- After that, their next fight will be over a year after New Ways to Die.

That is 3 times in the span of 14-15 months. You could argue that is a lot but the fact of the matter is that it would be bad writing to not have Spidey vs. Norman in the climate of Dark Reign. His mortal enemy is pretty much running the country and you think fighting 3 times (one as Goblin, one as Norman, and one as Iron Patriot -- a fight that has yet to happen and lots of people want to see) is too much?

It makes sense to have them going at it a few times.

When before NWTD did they fight? And when before that? It is NOT often.

Ill say another reason im not excited for this is because im not a huge fan of iron patriot. Sure dark reign has been entertaining and a well done story however i would prefer the head character to not be norman osborn. I liked norman osborn as the green goblin.

whiteshark
07-04-2009, 02:51 AM
I am going to buy this.
Dan Slott usually just writtes funny and top stories with Spider-Man.
Adam Kubert drawing it is a cool element as well.

jackolover
07-05-2009, 04:25 AM
I think Spidey will have a pretty big role in Norman's eventual downfall but I just think that there are too many other players with a vested interest in bringing Norman down for it to simply come down to a solo Spidey vs Norman fight.

Personally I've seen Spidey pound the crap out of Norman waaaaaaay to many times for me to be really excited about another one even if this time Norman is king of the world and to add to that I don't expect to see Norman shelved for a long time after this is all said and done so I wouldn't see it any differently from their other fights.

I really think that a collaborative effort with Clint, Tony and Spidey is the ultimate fight we'll see to end this thing and I'll end up happy with that personally:cool: :biggrin:

Personally, I would only want a Parker/Osborn showdown, if Osborn finds out who Spider-Man is and losses it. The mental shock is too much, all the medication becomes useless, and the whole framework of the DR depends on a man in a green suit chasing around a Spider like a maniac. Then, if this signals the downfall of the DR, it would be significant. Otherwise, it's just another American Son/ NWTD picnic. Marvel has been tauting a possible Goblin disintegration right from the Dark Reign:Cabal one shot, when Osborn threw the Swordsman out the window, and cackling could be heard. It would be the ultimate degradation if Parker was to take his mask off, and the Goblin put his mask on. (That does remind me of Peter Pan and Captain Hook).

Minihorse
07-05-2009, 06:08 AM
I wish Norman would of stayed dead. He may be the "arch nemesis" but it just gets old seeing him. I don't care if he is in armor or his goblin outfit, i am tired of seeing him. I have to admit that secret invasion was a big let down and the ending was dull. Norman shoots a skrull and magically the marvel universe bows to Norman knowing full well of his green goblin exploits. It's like United States people letting Jeffery Dalmer be president because he killed and ate another serial killer. Their are plenty of other villains that should and could be explored further. I'll end up getting this but i hope Norman dies because i want to see more of the other classic villains. Im excited for the gauntlet and sinister six arcs.

The Shadow
07-05-2009, 07:11 AM
Yet another confrontation between the Goblin and Spider-Man? If the Goblin was used sparingly, perhaps, but it seems every writer wants to stage their version of this fight every other year -- at best. Shoot, we just had a version of this fight in NWTD.
It reminds me of how every writer wants to do THEIR version of Batman vs The joker.

Dr. Chaos
07-05-2009, 05:20 PM
Saying it like it's just another Goblin fight (and The Iron Patriot certainly isn't no purple panties and green mask ensemble) is kind of overlooking the big concept of Dark Reign and just how much immediately and intricately dangerous it is to Spider-Man/Peter Parker.

I'd say Norman's appearances and the focus on him, Harry and Peter have been very much a necessity.

Ignoring their relationship in the aftermath of Norman's huge power grab after Secret Invasion just because they had a scuffle months ago would have been insane.

There was literally no way to pass up the opportunity both creatively and realistically and I think the spoils that have been had with American Son have shown the new dynamic is worth explaining from an entertainment standpoint just as much as it is a creative one.

Norman and Spider-Man are both intertwined deeply in each other's history, Norman was born Spider-Man's arch nemesis and thats the same way he's going to die, no matter how high he climbs.

He's a character that won't and can't be ignored right now.

Rob Thompson
07-05-2009, 06:15 PM
It reminds me of how every writer wants to do THEIR version of Batman vs The joker.I'd rather see a version of Spider-Man vs. Doc Ock for a change -- or Spider-Man vs. The Lizard -- or Spider-Man vs. Electro -- or Spider-Man vs. Mysterio.

It's not that I don't get the Goblin's one of Spider-Man's major villains -- but there are other villains in his rogues gallery, for Pete's sake. And Batman writers don't seem to fixate on the Joker like Spider-Man writers seem to fixate on Norman Osborn.

RDMacQ
07-05-2009, 07:08 PM
I'm just hoping Spidey plays a big role in taking on Norman Osborn in the upcoming Marvel event. And I mean BIG, like- central character to the event sort of thing, the way that the Hulk was a central character in World War Hulk or Cap and Iron Man were in the Civil War, instead of getting upstaged by Steve Rogers.

steveg887
07-05-2009, 07:09 PM
I'd rather see a version of Spider-Man vs. Doc Ock for a change -- or Spider-Man vs. The Lizard -- or Spider-Man vs. Electro -- or Spider-Man vs. Mysterio.

Good news then: All of these fights (with possible exception to the Lizard) will be happening in the coming year for Spidey.

Rob Thompson
07-05-2009, 07:12 PM
Good news then: All of these fights (with possible exception to the Lizard) will be happening in the coming year for Spidey.Yep -- and the possible return of Ben Reilly. That'd potentially make for a good year for me, at least in regards to Spider-Man.

Will.S
07-05-2009, 07:13 PM
I'd rather see a version of Spider-Man vs. Doc Ock for a change -- or Spider-Man vs. The Lizard -- or Spider-Man vs. Electro -- or Spider-Man vs. Mysterio.

It's not that I don't get the Goblin's one of Spider-Man's major villains -- but there are other villains in his rogues gallery, for Pete's sake. And Batman writers don't seem to fixate on the Joker like Spider-Man writers seem to fixate on Norman Osborn.
Yeah I agree, the Spider-Man/Norman confrontations have been a little too commonplace and I would rather see Spider-Man mix it up with other villains and have a Norman free couple of years.

jackolover
07-06-2009, 02:43 AM
I wish Norman would of stayed dead. He may be the "arch nemesis" but it just gets old seeing him. I don't care if he is in armor or his goblin outfit, i am tired of seeing him. I have to admit that secret invasion was a big let down and the ending was dull. Norman shoots a skrull and magically the marvel universe bows to Norman knowing full well of his green goblin exploits. It's like United States people letting Jeffery Dalmer be president because he killed and ate another serial killer. Their are plenty of other villains that should and could be explored further. I'll end up getting this but i hope Norman dies because i want to see more of the other classic villains. Im excited for the gauntlet and sinister six arcs.

I look at Secret Invasion, not as a legitamate attempt to overtake the earth. Norman Osborn had already sown the seeds of his power rise to glory, well before the first shots were fired. His taking of Freak in ASM #558, the recruitment of Whirlwind, Hyde and Tiger Shark in a TBolts one-shot, Normans insistance to Harry that a new world was coming and that the Osborns were a part of it after NWTD, the gradual dismantling of Stark Enterprises, and Stark himself, being ostracised by friends and having Osborn at a UN hearing castigating Stark. Osborn already knew about Skrulls because they were no surprise when the Captan Marvell Skrull burst into TBolts mountain. It was no coincidence Osborn had the champaign ready to toast this new circumstance, because it was the start of Normans chance to take over the whole show. An Osborn was ready to sabotage Nick Fury's download of Skrull tech when Deadpool attacked a Skrull vessel.

I think the SI was just a convenient circumstance for Norman Osborn to move Tony sideways, while Tony was at his lowest.

The Shadow
07-06-2009, 08:10 AM
the possible return of Ben Reilly
Please, for the love of God and all that's Holy, say it ain't so!

Where did you hear this??

Rob Thompson
07-06-2009, 08:19 AM
Please, for the love of God and all that's Holy, say it ain't so!

Where did you hear this??Boy, you have been off the radar.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=273740

There's a good starting point. It's the topic of conversation in several threads, and looks to be played to in the upcoming annual.

BTW -- if he does return -- best news of the decade! :tongue:

ShaggyB
07-06-2009, 08:32 AM
Please, for the love of God and all that's Holy, say it ain't so!

Where did you hear this??

basically Annual #36 talks about clone saga.... Rumors have swirled since the marvel spotlight was a pic of scarlet spider.... now we know it could be referencing The Clone Saga mini thats coming in september.... but Annual #36 showing us memories of the end of clone saga, combined with JQ saying One More Thing Changed because of OMD.... presto Ben might be back rumor.....

ZeoVGM
07-06-2009, 08:40 AM
I'd rather see a version of Spider-Man vs. Doc Ock for a change -- or Spider-Man vs. The Lizard -- or Spider-Man vs. Electro -- or Spider-Man vs. Mysterio.

It's not that I don't get the Goblin's one of Spider-Man's major villains -- but there are other villains in his rogues gallery, for Pete's sake.

You know that Spider-Man vs. Doc Ock is happening in a couple weeks, right?

And that both Spider-Man vs. Electro and Spider-Man vs. Mysterio are happening in the fall, right?

So it's a silly complaint.

ZeoVGM
07-06-2009, 08:41 AM
basically Annual #36 talks about clone saga.... Rumors have swirled since the marvel spotlight was a pic of scarlet spider.... now we know it could be referencing The Clone Saga mini thats coming in september.... but Annual #36 showing us memories of the end of clone saga, combined with JQ saying One More Thing Changed because of OMD.... presto Ben might be back rumor.....

The Clone Saga did not change at all. Confirmed a couple weeks back in an IGN interview.

ShaggyB
07-06-2009, 11:26 AM
are we certain those preview pics are not spidey just remembering his fights with GG?

ShaggyB
07-06-2009, 11:28 AM
The Clone Saga did not change at all. Confirmed a couple weeks back in an IGN interview.

never said that book was a change to the clone saga.... and no it wasnt confirmed that it never changed it was confirmed that the book was not a retelling with changed continuity... unless youve read a different interview than i have..... if so post away.

But personally.... i doubt they will ever change that mess.

ZeoVGM
07-06-2009, 11:49 AM
never said that book was a change to the clone saga.... and no it wasnt confirmed that it never changed it was confirmed that the book was not a retelling with changed continuity... unless youve read a different interview than i have..... if so post away.

But personally.... i doubt they will ever change that mess.

Wrong. It is confirmed that nothing in the Clone Saga was changed by OMD.

Rob Thompson
07-06-2009, 05:01 PM
Wrong. It is confirmed that nothing in the Clone Saga was changed by OMD.Except for Peter and MJ being married during it, of course. :tongue:

lou-bert vs. q-bert
07-16-2009, 11:03 AM
It's Norman Freaking Osborn. It's always going to come down to him and Spider-Man duking it out.

docholliday504
07-16-2009, 11:36 AM
^^^Exactly

I'm one of those people who EXPECTS Dark Reign to tie up with a SM-GG showdown. No matter how big he is, he's Spidey's villain. Ultimately Spider-man should be his undoing.

And I don't think they overuse Norman in Spidey's book. I know Jim T. dislikes Dark Reign but I'm loving Norman's current exposure and juxtaposing it with what was going on in the Initiative event.

Gavros88
07-27-2009, 12:07 PM
I'm one of those people who EXPECTS Dark Reign to tie up with a SM-GG showdown. No matter how big he is, he's Spidey's villain. Ultimately Spider-man should be his undoing.

I actually feel that, maybe this once, it's Iron Man's battle. After all, Norman basically stole his life and his suit. It's really Stark's fight...

Not that I don't want Peter to play a key role in Norman's downfall, of course.

iddypiper
07-28-2009, 03:15 AM
Well I'm completely expecting Magneto to end it.

Then we'll have Dark(er) Reign,
Dark(er) Avengers,
Dark(er) X-Men,
Dark(er) Wolverine,
maybe even a new Dark Daily Bugle mini.

Stay tuned, true believers, it's gonna be a blast!!

Rob Thompson
07-28-2009, 07:00 AM
Well I'm completely expecting Magneto to end it.

Then we'll have Dark(er) Reign,
Dark(er) Avengers,
Dark(er) X-Men,
Dark(er) Wolverine,
maybe even a new Dark Daily Bugle mini.

Stay tuned, true believers, it's gonna be a blast!!Which will end with Doom taking over the world, resulting in:


Darkest Reign
Darkest Avengers
Darkest X-Men
Darkest Wolverine
Darkest Squirrel Girl
:biggrin:

docholliday504
07-28-2009, 07:10 AM
I actually feel that, maybe this once, it's Iron Man's battle. After all, Norman basically stole his life and his suit. It's really Stark's fight...

Not that I don't want Peter to play a key role in Norman's downfall, of course.

You know I can totally see your point but I feel like Tony is kind of reaping what he sowed. He pushed for all this government interaction in the Superhuman community thinking he and Reed would be able to shape things in their own vision. When the government decided someone else would be better for the job Tony got screwed. I love reading Invincible Iron Man but I'm always thinking "Yeah you kinda deserve this."

Rob Thompson
07-28-2009, 07:15 AM
You know I can totally see your point but I feel like Tony is kind of reaping what he sowed. He pushed for all this government interaction in the Superhuman community thinking he and Reed would be able to shape things in their own vision. When the government decided someone else would be better for the job Tony got screwed. I love reading Invincible Iron Man but I'm always thinking "Yeah you kinda deserve this."While I agree, taking down Norman would be allow Stark to redeem himself.

docholliday504
07-28-2009, 07:27 AM
While I agree, taking down Norman would be allow Stark to redeem himself.

More agreement. I'm not gonna be upset if it is Tony that takes him down, I'd just rather it be Spider-man. If its the Sentry who takes Norman down....then you'll have one pissed off funny book reader.

Most likely it will be conglomerate of individuals who orchestrate Norman's downfall. I feel like Clint Barton deserves a piece of Norman too.

John Zaleski
07-28-2009, 07:38 AM
More agreement. I'm not gonna be upset if it is Tony that takes him down, I'd just rather it be Spider-man. If its the Sentry who takes Norman down....then you'll have one pissed off funny book reader.

Most likely it will be conglomerate of individuals who orchestrate Norman's downfall. I feel like Clint Barton deserves a piece of Norman too.

right after that last issue of NA, it was the first time I was like "hey maybe I won't mind if someone besides spidey kills him."

yadadaimhollaing
07-28-2009, 02:41 PM
While I agree, taking down Norman would be allow Stark to redeem himself.

unfortunatly some readers will see stark as a non-redeemed mustache twirling anti-christ villian :frown:

personally i see nothing that iron man needs to redeem himself for. however im a big iron man fan :biggrin:

Cody H
07-28-2009, 04:05 PM
I actually feel that, maybe this once, it's Iron Man's battle. After all, Norman basically stole his life and his suit. It's really Stark's fight...

Not that I don't want Peter to play a key role in Norman's downfall, of course.I think there's a way to have the best of both worlds here. That is, have Tony be the guy who brings down Norman's empire while Spider-Man takes down The Green Goblin. You could have Norman escape custody and kind of run amok as The Goblin, leading to full on battle between Spider-Man and The Green Goblin, with The Goblin essentially having nothing left to lose. I think that would also address the overexposure effect as both New Ways To Die and American Son were far more Spider-Man vs. Norman Osborn stories than they were Spider-Man vs. The Green Goblin stories.

Plus, I'd suggest the writer take a nod from Ellis and have Osborn completely lose it as The Goblin. If anybody's read Ellis's Thunderbolts, they know how awesome a batshit insane Green Goblin can be.

ankushm999
07-29-2009, 07:00 AM
This one shot will do nothing... we all know DR will end in December so this will also be like American Son. They will come up with a conveinient excuse so that Osborn's inevitable fall will be delayed till december. I wonder if it will be able to top the contrived plot twist of ASM #599

iddypiper
07-29-2009, 08:24 AM
I think there's a way to have the best of both worlds here. That is, have Tony be the guy who brings down Norman's empire while Spider-Man takes down The Green Goblin. You could have Norman escape custody and kind of run amok as The Goblin, leading to full on battle between Spider-Man and The Green Goblin, with The Goblin essentially having nothing left to lose. I think that would also address the overexposure effect as both New Ways To Die and American Son were far more Spider-Man vs. Norman Osborn stories than they were Spider-Man vs. The Green Goblin stories.

Plus, I'd suggest the writer take a nod from Ellis and have Osborn completely lose it as The Goblin. If anybody's read Ellis's Thunderbolts, they know how awesome a batshit insane Green Goblin can be.

I am in complete agreement and am enamored with the idea

Rob Thompson
07-29-2009, 09:16 AM
unfortunatly some readers will see stark as a non-redeemed mustache twirling anti-christ villian :frown:

personally i see nothing that iron man needs to redeem himself for. however im a big iron man fan :biggrin:Oh, I'm in the group that thinks Tony has been portrayed as villain for much of the last few years -- but I like his character and would like to see him redeem himself.