Great Fables Crossover "spoilers"

[Iron-boy]

So how was it? Any spoilers anyone? I read somewhere that some Deus Ex Machina fable fixed all the problem? But how?

[snarkbunny]

So how was it? Any spoilers anyone? I read somewhere that some Deus Ex Machina fable fixed all the problem? But how?

Far more like Jack of Fables than Fables itself - a lot of very fun sections in the crossover, but I think it was basically an exercise to clean up the Literals (the Deus Ex Machina is a Literal by the way).

Not my favourite arc, but a lot of fun.

[Ilash]

Basically, it renewed my interest in Jack of Fables but it felt like a distraction from what Fables has been building up for months. Either way, it was a fun arc that should be avoided like the plague if you have a problem with loads of fourth-wall breaking and meta-commentary.

[Iron-boy]

So the Deux Ex Machina fable is stronger then Kevin Thorn? Even stronger then Pathetic Fallacy?

[Ilash]

So the Deux Ex Machina fable is stronger then Kevin Thorn? Even stronger then Pathetic Fallacy?

It's not a question of being stronger, his role is simply to introduce a way for the heroes to circumvent Thorn's plans by providing an entrance to an entirely new universe for Thorn to create from scratch.

[Iron-boy]

So Deus Ex Machina recreated the world how? He deleted KEVIN Thorn and the other Literals? By the way, DEM is a literal himself right?

[Ilash]

So Deus Ex Machina recreated the world how? He deleted KEVIN Thorn and the other Literals? By the way, DEM is a literal himself right?

Yup. And he got the other Literals except for Gary, who is now depowered, to go with Kevin into this new universe. And it's a new universe, not the existing one but one "born" out of the egg that was in Snow White's office for all these years. The Fables characters basically convinced Kevin that people with their free choice and ever changing lives have made the Literals obsolete in their world and that he should go off and start again in another universe.

[Iron-boy]

Yup. And he got the other Literals except for Gary, who is now depowered, to go with Kevin into this new universe. And it's a new universe, not the existing one but one "born" out of the egg that was in Snow White's office for all these years. The Fables characters basically convinced Kevin that people with their free choice and ever changing lives have made the Literals obsolete in their world and that he should go off and start again in another universe.

Hmm, something doesnt make sense, if Deus Ex Machina is all-mighty, why didnt he delete Mr Dark? Especially since he too is an evil adversary.

[Ilash]

Hmm, something doesnt make sense, if Deus Ex Machina is all-mighty, why didnt he delete Mr Dark? Especially since he too is an evil adversary.

Well, like I said he's not almighty. Besides, he fits in much better with the Jack of Fables style than with Fables - in Fables a Deus Ex Machina would seem like, well, a cheat. Also, he's no longer in the Fables universe at all.

[Iron-boy]

Well, like I said he's not almighty. Besides, he fits in much better with the Jack of Fables style than with Fables - in Fables a Deus Ex Machina would seem like, well, a cheat. Also, he's no longer in the Fables universe at all.

What happened to it? It killed itself?

[edhopper]

What happened to it? It killed itself?

Stop asking questions and go and read the damn thing. It was a fun story with a very satisfying ending which tied in various points.

Or wait for someone to give a synopsis on Wikipedia. It won't have any of the enjoyment of the actual books, but at least you'll know what happened.

[drinkblatzbeer]

officially, i am only buying fables in trades now...and even then, i'm gonna be selective...

the deus ex machina fable did give me a chuckle, but too little, too late...

this storyline was an exercise in futility...
9 parts in what could have been done in 2 issues...

not much interesting happening...

i...really don't know what to say that can convey my displeasure in what used to be one of the most solid books month after month...i'm really speechless and also don't want to badmouth what gave me so much enjoyment at one time...

that, and buckinghams new style of art has just turned me off...

so, thanks fables for the fun, but this is a train i am pretty much jumping off...*for now*...

[drinkblatzbeer]

Hmm, something doesnt make sense, if Deus Ex Machina is all-mighty, why didnt he delete Mr Dark? Especially since he too is an evil adversary.

because dark isn't trying to erase reality...he's part of a different story in itself...

deus isn't deleting evil in any form, just saving the universe from thorn's rewrite...so, that stories like the upcoming one with dark, have the chance to exist...

[Iron-boy]

Stop asking questions and go and read the damn thing. It was a fun story with a very satisfying ending which tied in various points.

Or wait for someone to give a synopsis on Wikipedia. It won't have any of the enjoyment of the actual books, but at least you'll know what happened.

Who the heck are you to tell me what to do and not to do ? I won't read it because I don't feel like paying 30$ for a series of book that can easily be told in a few lines. If you don't feel like answering my question, you don't have to.
Beside, it a thread to talk about the content of the book.

[drinkblatzbeer]

What happened to it? It killed itself?

nope, followed the rest of the literals into the new blank universe...

[drinkblatzbeer]

ok, i am ready to take shit for this if i am way off...but...

in a general sense, i think this was willingham and sturges, sort of deconstructing what makes a story...albeit, in more of a...comedic...form...

and not quite suceeding...something which morrison i think did to a much better effect in FC...

ok, bring out the switches and beat me...

[Sean Walsh]

Anyone know if this will be collected in a single trade? I'd love to read this all in one book.

[Karl O'Neill]

Anyone know if this will be collected in a single trade? I'd love to read this all in one book.

I bet it will sean.

It will make a nice 9 parter.

Sure haven't some of the fables Trades being more than 6 issues in collections so far.

I have all the trades so I can check.

[edhopper]

Who the heck are you to tell me what to do and not to do ? I won't read it because I don't feel like paying 30$ for a series of book that can easily be told in a few lines. If you don't feel like answering my question, you don't have to.
Beside, it a thread to talk about the content of the book.

If you don't read the books, why do you care what happens. Fables are in their own universe and don't impact any other series. The fun is not "what happened", it's in the story telling., it's in the characters, it's in the art, it's in the one (or sometimes two:biggrin: ) pages babe the little blue ox gets.
Don't read it, who cares. But why do you want to know what happened if your aren't interested in reading it?

[Iron-boy]

Because I've read Jack Of Fables Vol 1-4 and Fables Vol. 1-9.
And if the crossover is simply okay, I might skip it altogether.

[edhopper]

ok, i am ready to take shit for this if i am way off...but...

in a general sense, i think this was willingham and sturges, sort of deconstructing what makes a story...albeit, in more of a...comedic...form...

and not quite suceeding...something which morrison i think did to a much better effect in FC...

ok, bring out the switches and beat me...

Please don't bring FC into this:eek: :mad: :eek:

I think it was more about telling a meta-textual story using the very elements of story telling as the characters.
In a fun and humorous way.

[edhopper]

Because I've read Jack Of Fables Vol 1-4 and Fables Vol. 1-9.
And if the crossover is simply okay, I might skip it altogether.

And you'd miss finding out who the Page sister's real father is. You'd miss meeting Jack's son, or seeing Jack mistaken for Blue by the Farm animals. You'd miss Bigby as pink elephant and a little girl (who kicks ass). And you'd miss The Genres. Who were worth the price of the series alone.
It's not simply about the plot. It's about the way it's told. I can't tell you if you will enjoy it or not, but deciding just on the basic plot is like not reading TLOTR because the story of some little hobbits taking a trip and throwing a ring into a volcano doesn't sound that thrilling.

[Iron-boy]

And you'd miss finding out who the Page sister's real father is. You'd miss meeting Jack's son, or seeing Jack mistaken for Blue by the Farm animals. You'd miss Bigby as pink elephant and a little girl (who kicks ass). And you'd miss The Genres. Who were worth the price of the series alone.
It's not simply about the plot. It's about the way it's told. I can't tell you if you will enjoy it or not, but deciding just on the basic plot is like not reading TLOTR because the story of some little hobbits taking a trip and throwing a ring into a volcano doesn't sound that thrilling.

Especially considering those hobbits had a relationship a bit too close for my tase.

[Jimmy'sFriend]

I was disappointed with the crossover and I LOVE Fables.

Here's my 2 cents

The Literals #3

With the conclusion of this series, “The Great Fables Crossover” reaches its end. My reaction in one word, disappointed. Marketed as a major event in the Fables universe, this nine-part series was drawn- out, meandering and concludes with a fizzle rather than a bang.
Please know that it pains me greatly to write this review. Fables and Jack of Fables have been two of my most beloved monthly reads for the past few years. I have converted many friends to the inimitable work of Bill Willingham and Matthew Sturges in these two groundbreaking series. Fables is a truly unique concept and it’s execution has been nearly flawless – that his until now.
I love the idea of the literals, immoral characters governing the world of fiction from genres to literary devices via personification. Brilliant! When Kevin Thorne, a powerful literal, threatens to rewrite reality the Fables must devise a plan to stop him. More brilliance!! Where this event failed was the plot. From issue to issue, there is just a slowly brewing buildup to the final confrontation with Thorne. Great new characters are introduced, but nothing much is done with them. The ending is reminiscent of an author that just wants this thing to end. So did I.
This issue and the others are littered with witty moments, making it still a fun read for Fables fans. This is a smartly written book and the all-ready established cast shine at various instances. Mark Buckingham’s art is wonderful, but can’t save a boring story.
Do not give up on Fables because of one bad story in a procession of incredible arcs. There are much more interesting things going on the Fables’ world that I can’t wait to get back to. Fables creative team, you are forgiven. Now get back to what you do best!
2 out of 5


Do you think this is too harsh?

[edhopper]

Yeah, you are being too harsh.
I think they were not trying for a big "important" arc. It was a lighter respite after the final war arc and the upcoming Dark story.
Even the name "The Great Fables Crossover" was tongue in cheek. The "crossover" was Jack and the Fables trading books. And The Literals were all about clever personification of literary motifs
It was fun, well written, well drawn and made me chuckle at least two or three times each book.

[snarkbunny]

Actually, Ed - while I agree with your assessment of the crossover, I don't think Jimmy'sFriend was too harsh. He wanted more of a plot, this arc wasn't about plot.

If people were expecting a more epic storyline like March of the Wooden Soldiers or Homelands, then this was not it.

I think, the point of the arc was to remove the Literals from the Fablesverse (which I think is a good idea - there is far too much power in the Literals for balancing storylines (i.e. why didn't Revise revise Mister Dark but a Literalverse would be fun though) and setup for upcoming storylines. All the major characters in the arc had opportunities for life changing actions (Bigby to take up shapeshifting, Gary/Page Sisters/Revise to go/give up powers, Jack Frost coming into his powers and deciding what to do about Daddy, Jack had multiple options not to be a total sleazeball) I expect the ramifications of the arc to impact Rose Red, both Jacks, and Bigby further down the road.

[JakeJarmel]

Little help, please.

I've read the first ten trades of Fables, so far. I haven't read Jack of Fables, or the crossover. Do I need to read those in order to find out what the deal is with the Literals, or will they show up in the regular Fables story?

[InSovietRussia]

Little help, please.

I've read the first ten trades of Fables, so far. I haven't read Jack of Fables, or the crossover. Do I need to read those in order to find out what the deal is with the Literals, or will they show up in the regular Fables story?

To be honest, it would help... there's some background given on the Literals during the crossover, but getting a more thorough look at the backstory really does help.

[JakeJarmel]

To be honest, it would help... there's some background given on the Literals during the crossover, but getting a more thorough look at the backstory really does help.

Thanks.

Now, do I need to read Jack Fables in order to read Crossover? Or can I just jump into the crossover?

[JakeJarmel]

I was just looking on Wiki and noticed that the crossover takes place during issues 83-85, right after the 12th trade. So the crossover will most likely be released as the 13th trade?

[InSovietRussia]

Thanks.

Now, do I need to read Jack Fables in order to read Crossover? Or can I just jump into the crossover?

You can, and it does pick up on some older threads from Fables, but if it were me I'd read the latest Jack story arc first.

[carabas]

You can, and it does pick up on some older threads from Fables...Must hav missed those. Which ones?

As far as I can see, it is entirely a Jack Of Tales story (even if he isn't in it a lot), and is pretty much skippable if you don't follow that series for whatever insane reason.

[Charles Reed]

Must hav missed those. Which ones?

As far as I can see, it is entirely a Jack Of Tales story (even if he isn't in it a lot), and is pretty much skippable if you don't follow that series for whatever insane reason.
There are a few developments in the Great Fables Crossover that relate to Fables proper:


Some significant character-development stuff with Rose Red.
Rose Red experiences a rapid descent into a self-destructive depression following Boy Blue's death and shows no signs of coming out of it on her own.



A minor development with Beauty & Beast that will no doubt become more significant later on.
Are you sure you want to read this?
.
.
.
.
OK. Here you go: it certainly seems as though Beast gets Beauty pregnant.



A tantalizing but very brief glimpse into how Mister Dark is affecting the world (both Mundy and Fable) around him.
The world in the immediate vicinity of Mister Dark has all of a sudden become a nastier, darker, more brutal place.

There are probably a couple of things I forgot, but those are the biggies that leap to mind. That being said, each of these can be easily summed up, so you're no doubt right that you could pretty easily skip the the Great Fables Crossover and not miss out on too much with regard to the main Fables storyline.

C

[Kusanagi]

Really the crossover effected Jack of Fables far more than it did Fables, but even then it served to advance the story along in Fables as well.

Really it was just a fun crossover with loads of humor, and some interesting met texting. If you're a fan of Jack of Fables I highly recommend it as it mostly wraps up his dealings with the literals, and nails the dangling plot thread with his bastard son with the snow queen. Both musts if your a fan of the series. Plus where else are you going to see Bigby as a little girl?

Now if you're only a fan of Fables, then yes this is more or less filler between arcs. Rose Red's spiral could arguably said to hit the bottom of the barrel, well hopefully anyway, the egg mystery is finally solved and Stinky's Boy Blue cult gets some hilarious moments. Really though in the grand scheme of things in terms of Fables only, it's more of a break between the serious goings on. If your more into the dramatic arcs of the series this probably isn't for you.

So in summary
If you read Jack of Fables buy it

If you don't read Jack of Fables but like it when Fables is a bit more light hearted give it a look.

If you dislike Jack of Fables, or if you prefer Fables to stick to the more dramatic aspects of the story you're probably better off skipping it.

[carabas]

There are a few developments in the Great Fables Crossover that relate to Fables proper.
Oh, I got those.
But InSovietRussia said older threads from Fables, and these are from one or two issues or so before the crossover.

[snarkbunny]

Oh, I got those.
But InSovietRussia said older threads from Fables, and these are from one or two issues or so before the crossover.

Well the Egg has been around since Issue #1 of Fables and it is certainly mostly picking up themes from events in the "The Dark Age" story Arc - although Rose Red/Jack goes back to the first arc.

Certainly a lot more long-running plotlines from Jack of Fables showed up.

[skatalite]

I was disappointed with the crossover and I LOVE Fables.

Here's my 2 cents

The Literals #3

With the conclusion of this series, “The Great Fables Crossover” reaches its end. My reaction in one word, disappointed. Marketed as a major event in the Fables universe, this nine-part series was drawn- out, meandering and concludes with a fizzle rather than a bang.
Please know that it pains me greatly to write this review. Fables and Jack of Fables have been two of my most beloved monthly reads for the past few years. I have converted many friends to the inimitable work of Bill Willingham and Matthew Sturges in these two groundbreaking series. Fables is a truly unique concept and it’s execution has been nearly flawless – that his until now.
I love the idea of the literals, immoral characters governing the world of fiction from genres to literary devices via personification. Brilliant! When Kevin Thorne, a powerful literal, threatens to rewrite reality the Fables must devise a plan to stop him. More brilliance!! Where this event failed was the plot. From issue to issue, there is just a slowly brewing buildup to the final confrontation with Thorne. Great new characters are introduced, but nothing much is done with them. The ending is reminiscent of an author that just wants this thing to end. So did I.
This issue and the others are littered with witty moments, making it still a fun read for Fables fans. This is a smartly written book and the all-ready established cast shine at various instances. Mark Buckingham’s art is wonderful, but can’t save a boring story.
Do not give up on Fables because of one bad story in a procession of incredible arcs. There are much more interesting things going on the Fables’ world that I can’t wait to get back to. Fables creative team, you are forgiven. Now get back to what you do best!
2 out of 5


Do you think this is too harsh?

I don't think you were too hard, cause it's simply you're opinion. However, I think you knocked the crossover for being something it wasn't meant to be, if that makes sense.

For instance, someone sees "No Country for Old Men" expecting an action movie. They walk out after experiencing the dramatic thriller. Although he didn't see what he thought he was going to see, he still enjoyed the movie for what it was.

So, what I'm saying is, review it away from your expectations. Think about it as it impacts the Fableverse, how it's written, how it stands alone as a piece of literature, and how it is still completely different than anything else out there.

While it's not the final confrontation you were hoping for, it was a confrontation that fits the characters. Bigby was all about killing Thorn, but Thorn is too smart for most of the Fables, and thought it all through. It makes sense, why wouldn't he?! So, the Fables had to step outside the box, and with a little mmph from other Literals, they were able to defeat Thorn. Not in a blaze of glory, but by playing his own game. Genius ending, I thought. It wasn't what I expected either, but I also didn't know what to expect, to be honest. But the ending was obviously well thought-out and it paid off. For this reader, anyway.

[sgt pepper]

I thought the crossover was a hoot. Maybe it didn't flow as well as it could have, the plot often being interrupted (or put aside all together at times) by jokes, and maybe it dragged a bit and could have been done in fewer issues. Really, this entire crossover read much more like Jack of Fables than Fables, in which the plot is far secondary to the jokes. I love Jack of Fables, so I enjoyed it.

That page where Babe asserts that Snoopy ain't got nothing on him was a riot (and I assume will be Babe's last one-pager?).

[Charles Reed]

That page where Babe asserts that Snoopy ain't got nothing on him was a riot (and I assume will be Babe's last one-pager?).
You assume wrongly, good sir. The following is a direct quote from Matthew Sturges at the SDCC 2009 "Spotlight on Willingham" panel:


And the other thing that I wanted to reassure everyone is that Babe the Blue Ox isn't going anywhere. In fact, things are changing a little bit for Babe in that he is splitting off from the rest of the cast and going off on his own merry way. And so from now on, each month you'll see him in the back of the book in a whole new exciting location, having an exciting fantasy that has nothing whatsoever to do with that location. But here's the big news: in Jack of Fables #50, Babe is going to get his first multi-page adventure, in which he does more than just sit there and think.

Beside the "Babe" change, Matt and Bill talk about some of the other big -- really big -- changes that are coming for Jack of Fables.

You can listen to the entire podcast at the Vertigo website:

Spotlight on Willingham (aka Fables Panel Part Deux) -- Sunday, July 26 (http://dccomics.com/media/podcasts/DCComics_2009-07-26_Spotlight_on_Bill_Willingham_at_SDCC_2009.mp3)

Or you can check out the Jack-specific transcript on the Clockwork Storybook message board:

SDCC 2009 Annoucements for Jack of Fables ** Spoilers ** (http://www.clockworkstorybook.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3778)

C