Proposition X

[Cam Man]

So I was thinking after reading Utopia what the big deal is. The humans are afraid of mutant births after what Hope did in Alaska. Not so much mutants in general, cause we've been there and done that, but mutants procreating. The X-men are up in arms over the abusrdness of the idea and I understand that. But did they not forget that there are no more mutant babies being born anymore??? So whats the big deal? Proposition X is, like most laws, utterly useless. Surely there are some scientists out there who can come forward with a study showing the decline in mutant births is down to about zero and the whole issue is extinct. Tah-dah! Then the good people in San Fran can work on how to balence thier budget and more important issues.

But.......... (and this always bugged me) there is no way and never has been to my understanding a way to identify mutants from birth. Powers usually show up at puberty right? So all this hoopla over no new mustant births since M-day is garbage. The number of mutant births before M-day was pretty much zero I assume as well. When did they start being able to track and record this? The real issue is there haven't been any mutant prebupesent teens in the last year or two. For all we know there could be thousands of mutant "sleeper" kids out there just waiting for powers once they grow up. M-day wiped the slate clean, but that doesn't mean the process won't start up again. Nature always finds a way.....

[FeminineMystique]

The really stupid part is that the mutant being born had nothing to do with the people dying. Idiot human bigots the Purifiers showing up and KILLING TONS OF PEOPLE was the reason that the little town in Alaska got burned to the ground. Hope was a total innocent in the entire affair.

That and ADULT MUTANTS who were also wanted criminals and had nothing to do with the general mutant community showed up and got in a fist fight with the idiot humans.

So essentially the law is saying: Mutants shouldn't be allowed to breed because brainless bigots and known criminals might possibly show up to cause trouble.

By that logic no one should do anything ever, because there's always the chance someone might show up to try and cause people harm

[Come To Deathstrike]

There is no recorded footage of the purifiers, marauders, or the X-men being there.

The only facts known to the general public is "Mutant baby born, everyone dead"

Fill in the dots from there.

[FeminineMystique]

So what happened to the bodies of the people from a known terrorist organisation and a super criminal group that were just lying around?

[darknessatnoon]

So what happened to the bodies of the people from a known terrorist organisation and a super criminal group that were just lying around?

Predator X ate the mutant bodies.

And then there was a cover-up.

I find it useful to also exercise my brain cells.

[Azure]

So what happened to the bodies of the people from a known terrorist organisation and a super criminal group that were just lying around?

Removed by a secondary squad of purifiers/eaten by Predator X, I believe.

[FeminineMystique]

Predator X ate the mutant bodies.

And then there was a cover-up.

I find it useful to also exercise my brain cells.

I love the positivity you bring to any thread:biggrin:

Removed by a secondary squad of purifiers/eaten by Predator X, I believe.

Which does beg the question: if the two groups who knew that there was a mutant born in that town apparently were never there, how is Humanity Now proving that the child born there was even a mutant?

Or are people just taking their word for it? Which is escpecially stupid given Trask's family having a history of racism towards mutants.

[Filthy Mutie]

I mean, to be honest, readers should be more concerned about Preparation H.

[darknessatnoon]

I love the positivity you bring to any thread:biggrin:

It's hard for me to respond to you without using curse words, so I'll pass this time.

[Come To Deathstrike]

Basically, if you don't get it after all that information, you're thick.

[Bronze Badger]

Nature always finds a way.....

Didn't they learn their lesson from Jurassic Park?

[Cam Man]

Good point. Where is the evidence that a mutant was actually born in Alaska? Wasn't there an issue somewhere where a team went back to Alaska looking for clues and found the place was wiped clean? Thats pretty shaky ground to claim a mutant baby was responsible for everything when it seems nothing happened, people just died and dissapperaed. No bodies, no witnesses, no mutant baby. Talk about jumping the gun.

[Azure]

Good point. Where is the evidence that a mutant was actually born in Alaska? Wasn't there an issue somewhere where a team went back to Alaska looking for clues and found the place was wiped clean? Thats pretty shaky ground to claim a mutant baby was responsible for everything when it seems nothing happened, people just died and dissapperaed. No bodies, no witnesses, no mutant baby. Talk about jumping the gun.

Americans believe everything that the news tells them, Cam Man.

[Home made ectoplasm]

I don't care so long as it is a good story!

[darknessatnoon]

Americans believe everything that the news tells them, Cam Man.

Cam Man also seems to be confusing San Francisco and Sacramento, so whatever. The budget isn't passed in San Francisco, Cam. If you can't understand that, then how can you expect citizens of the Marvel Universe to question Trask?

[Come To Deathstrike]

I think people have forgotten the purifiers are a church first, mutantkillers second.

[FeminineMystique]

Good point. Where is the evidence that a mutant was actually born in Alaska? Wasn't there an issue somewhere where a team went back to Alaska looking for clues and found the place was wiped clean? Thats pretty shaky ground to claim a mutant baby was responsible for everything when it seems nothing happened, people just died and dissapperaed. No bodies, no witnesses, no mutant baby. Talk about jumping the gun.

It really does seem like further evidence that the citizens of the Marvel Universe have about the same I.Q as George Bush. :biggrin:

I haven't read the issue you mention but if that's right then it seems like Proposition X has apparently come to vote based entirely on the say so of a guy whose close relative built evil killer robots that once tried to blow up the sun.

So it seems that the government in the Marvel Universe is in a worse shape than the one in real life:biggrin:

I think people have forgotten the purifiers are a church first, mutantkillers second.

Just as the people who brought Stryker back apparently forgot he was caught on camera pushing a woman to her unpleaseant death below, before being shot by a cop as he tried to cold bloodedly murder a teenage girl.

Yet when the Purifiers were brought back in New X-Men no one in the general MU seemed to remember these things. Funny that:wink:

[7thangel]

it's a terrible plot device in a terrible x-oficce mandated x-universe. the amount of hate in 2009 MU is so unrealistic and simplistic, it doesn't leave any room for really good stories to be told. there's no eisner worthy shit going on in the x-titles, just a retread from yesteryear with a 'red scare' feel turn up to maximuim. adequate, sometimes good, but not great or groundbreaking or significant.

plus, there's only so much stuff they can come up with to make mutantkind sympathetic before it comes off as forced. drama films along with romantic films are guilty of this 'padding' in order to sway the audience beyond common sense.

finally, practically 95% of humans in the x-universe are cardboard caricatures filled with hate, that's not the best recipe for a well thought out plot or story. so prop x to me is an unfortunate storyline that i'm eagerly waiting to forget. way too many flaws and an absence of reality that would help even though it's fiction

[Cam Man]

No. It just means the avergae citizen in the MU is way more guliable and sheepish than the average citizen today. You would think with alien invasions, weekly world ending plots, demons, and Normon Osborn they would take more concern over what affects them in everyday life. Or maybe they are just too lazy and have become dependent on superheros to take care of them all the time. The average MU citizen defiantly has a mob mentality towards them, thats for sure.

[Azure]

it's a terrible plot device in a terrible x-oficce mandated x-universe. the amount of hate in 2009 MU is so unrealistic and simplistic, it doesn't leave any room for really good stories to be told. there's no eisner worthy shit going on in the x-titles, just a retread from yesteryear with a 'red scare' feel turn up to maximuim. adequate, sometimes good, but not great or groundbreaking or significant.

plus, there's only so much stuff they can come up with to make mutantkind sympathetic before it comes off as forced. drama films along with romantic films are guilty of this 'padding' in order to sway the audience beyond common sense.

finally, practically 95% of humans in the x-universe are cardboard caricatures filled with hate, that's not the best recipe for a well thought out plot or story. so prop x to me is an unfortunate storyline that i'm eagerly waiting to forget. way too many flaws and an absence of reality that would help even though it's fiction

Have you ever heard of Proposition 8, 7thangel?

[FeminineMystique]

it's a terrible plot device in a terrible x-oficce mandated x-universe. the amount of hate in 2009 MU is so unrealistic and simplistic, it doesn't leave any room for really good stories to be told. there's no eisner worthy shit going on in the x-titles, just a retread from yesteryear with a 'red scare' feel turn up to maximuim. adequate, sometimes good, but not great or groundbreaking or significant.

plus, there's only so much stuff they can come up with to make mutantkind sympathetic before it comes off as forced. drama films along with romantic films are guilty of this 'padding' in order to sway the audience beyond common sense.

finally, practically 95% of humans in the x-universe are cardboard caricatures filled with hate, that's not the best recipe for a well thought out plot or story. so prop x to me is an unfortunate storyline that i'm eagerly waiting to forget. way too many flaws and an absence of reality that would help even though it's fiction

Well you would think given that the X-Men and other mutant groups/individuals have been saving the world every other week for years people would start to realise that not all mutants are a menace.

Of course that would mean a change in the status quo and actual plot progression in the franchise. And we can't have that:biggrin:

[Chief Jon]

The really stupid part is that the mutant being born had nothing to do with the people dying. Idiot human bigots the Purifiers showing up and KILLING TONS OF PEOPLE was the reason that the little town in Alaska got burned to the ground. Hope was a total innocent in the entire affair.

That and ADULT MUTANTS who were also wanted criminals and had nothing to do with the general mutant community showed up and got in a fist fight with the idiot humans.

So essentially the law is saying: Mutants shouldn't be allowed to breed because brainless bigots and known criminals might possibly show up to cause trouble.

By that logic no one should do anything ever, because there's always the chance someone might show up to try and cause people harm

This is almost exactly what I planned to say. Seriously, had the X-Men left Angel there to run PR and make sure that the whole world understood that the town was destroyed by a hate group and not by mutants (seriously aside from wasting a few Purifiers the Maraurders, THE MARAUDERS of all people, hardly even did any property damage) would Trask's organization have any case at all? Maybe they could convince people who are already bigots or specifically mutant-phobic to support them, but I doubt they'd be polarizing the citizenry of CA as much as they are. But nooooooooooooooooo Scott just decided that, oh, mutants will be blamed anyhow, let's get out of town guys even though there are surviovrs here who could very publicly announce that the X-Men, mutants, showed up and saved their lives. Bah!

[7thangel]

Have you ever heard of Proposition 8, 7thangel?

i have and regardless, nothing is ever that simple, people and their motivations can be both simple and complex. plus, as i said, reducing one side as caricatures and partially flesh out another side (the true dynamics of a minority, whether visible or not, and the issues within their own community isn't one of the aspects they've fleshed out to any real believable degree) leaves hollow stories.

[FeminineMystique]

This is almost exactly what I planned to say. Seriously, had the X-Men left Angel there to run PR and make sure that the whole world understood that the town was destroyed by a hate group and not by mutants (seriously aside from wasting a few Purifiers the Maraurders, THE MARAUDERS of all people, hardly even did any property damage) would Trask's organization have any case at all? Maybe they could convince people who are already bigots or specifically mutant-phobic to support them, but I doubt they'd be polarizing the citizenry of CA as much as they are. But nooooooooooooooooo Scott just decided that, oh, mutants will be blamed anyhow, let's get out of town guys even though there are surviovrs here who could very publicly announce that the X-Men, mutants, showed up and saved their lives. Bah!

It's what's known as an Idiot Plot: a plot that only works if you assume the characters are idiots.

Of course as Cyclops was recently shown as completely oblivious to the fact the woman he's been with for several years has joined evil incarnate, and just got two groups of innocent people tased with his own selfish behaviour it's not that much of a stretch to believe that:biggrin:

[Bronze Badger]

I mean, to be honest, as readers be more concerned about Preparation H.

http://instantrimshot.com/

[Filthy Mutie]

http://instantrimshot.com/

It's pretty rad that I didn't have the millisecond to proofread my post, too.

[Cyclopsj316]

Prop X is pretty much supposed to be Prop 8...

... wth.

[coveredinbees]

So I was thinking after reading Utopia what the big deal is. The humans are afraid of mutant births after what Hope did in Alaska. Not so much mutants in general, cause we've been there and done that, but mutants procreating. The X-men are up in arms over the abusrdness of the idea and I understand that. But did they not forget that there are no more mutant babies being born anymore??? So whats the big deal? Proposition X is, like most laws, utterly useless. Surely there are some scientists out there who can come forward with a study showing the decline in mutant births is down to about zero and the whole issue is extinct. Tah-dah! Then the good people in San Fran can work on how to balence thier budget and more important issues.

But.......... (and this always bugged me) there is no way and never has been to my understanding a way to identify mutants from birth. Powers usually show up at puberty right? So all this hoopla over no new mustant births since M-day is garbage. The number of mutant births before M-day was pretty much zero I assume as well. When did they start being able to track and record this? The real issue is there haven't been any mutant prebupesent teens in the last year or two. For all we know there could be thousands of mutant "sleeper" kids out there just waiting for powers once they grow up. M-day wiped the slate clean, but that doesn't mean the process won't start up again. Nature always finds a way.....
Well, this is how I've been seeing it, dunno how clear or right it is I'm struggling to find the right words sort of:
It's not about mutants procreating, it's about X-Gene positive people.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4161/propx.jpg
The X-Gene is present in people without powers, i.e. Cameron Davis, and the parents of mutants of many of the X-Men. What they're doing will prevent the births of any mutants, even with Wanda's spell, and will kill the species.

But did they not forget that there are no more mutant babies being born anymore???
That's not true. Hope was a mutant birth. And Beast and friends are trying to fix that birthing problem, soon lots of mutants could be born.

Surely there are some scientists out there who can come forward with a study showing the decline in mutant births is down to about zero and the whole issue is extinct. Tah-dah! Then the good people in San Fran can work on how to balence thier budget and more important issues.
Yes, the population has declined. The mutant race might die, and Humanity Now is trying to make sure that happens.

But.......... (and this always bugged me) there is no way and never has been to my understanding a way to identify mutants from birth. Powers usually show up at puberty right?
I'm pretty sure they can locate the X-Gene now.

M-day wiped the slate clean, but that doesn't mean the process won't start up again. Nature always finds a way.....
Exactly. The mutants will rise up once more. Would you wait until there are 1000 mutants to protest your bill, or do it while there are only 300?

The anti-mutant fellows have an amazing opportunity to finally get rid of the mutant problem, because there are only 300 left. Why should they back off?

And I think people side with them because there has always been mistrust between humans and mutants, and because of what happened in Alaska, however that news got out. Also, not all of the humans are in agreement with Trask. There were humans shown protesting his march in Utopia.

[Filthy Mutie]

Prop X is pretty much supposed to be Prop 8...

... wth.

According to Fraction, it's the other way around.

[Chief Jon]

It's what's known as an Idiot Plot: a plot that only works if you assume the characters are idiots.

Of course as Cyclops was recently shown as completely oblivious to the fact the woman he's been with for several years has joined evil incarnate, and just got two groups of innocent people tased with his own selfish behaviour it's not that much of a stretch to believe that:biggrin:

No arguments here. No wonder he was blindsided by Dark Avenger, The Brick.

[Mencemor]

Prop X is pretty much supposed to be Prop 8...

... wth.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21774

Fraction says it was a "timed coincidence".

Wether we are to believe that or not is another question...

[orkoni1]

So I was thinking after reading Utopia what the big deal is. The humans are afraid of mutant births after what Hope did in Alaska. Not so much mutants in general, cause we've been there and done that, but mutants procreating. The X-men are up in arms over the abusrdness of the idea and I understand that. But did they not forget that there are no more mutant babies being born anymore??? So whats the big deal? Proposition X is, like most laws, utterly useless. Surely there are some scientists out there who can come forward with a study showing the decline in mutant births is down to about zero and the whole issue is extinct. Tah-dah! Then the good people in San Fran can work on how to balence thier budget and more important issues.

But.......... (and this always bugged me) there is no way and never has been to my understanding a way to identify mutants from birth. Powers usually show up at puberty right? So all this hoopla over no new mustant births since M-day is garbage. The number of mutant births before M-day was pretty much zero I assume as well. When did they start being able to track and record this? The real issue is there haven't been any mutant prebupesent teens in the last year or two. For all we know there could be thousands of mutant "sleeper" kids out there just waiting for powers once they grow up. M-day wiped the slate clean, but that doesn't mean the process won't start up again. Nature always finds a way.....

I think it has to do with neutering and spaying the remaining mutants. And well that's crazy. And a you probably already know, the mutants that still exist can still have mutant babies.

Also Im sure that in the MU there are a lot of humans that support the mutants now and before the decimation, mostly young kids too. Just like in the real world there have always been people that support other people's cause even if they themselves weren't black themselves or gay or women etc. So to think that all humans are against mutants is ridiculous even if it seems like that in the comics at times.

[Mencemor]

What I dont get is how would they plan on doing this? I know if I was a mutant with a kick-arse power that I would not let them do that to me. People would be dead by the time I'm "fixed".

I'm also curious about mutants like Rockslide, Mercury, Onyxx, etc, can they even reproduce?

[orkoni1]

What I dont get is how would they plan on doing this? I know if I was a mutant with a kick-arse power that I would not let them do that to me. People would be dead by the time I'm "fixed".

I'm also curious about mutants like Rockslide, Mercury, Onyxx, etc, can they even reproduce?

The only one from the list you gave that I think cant reproduce (might be shown wrong a decade or two from now) is Rockslide since that's not really his own body, hes just controlling a rocks to from what his body would be, also Mercury's non-carbon-based body (non organic like we humans are) makes me wonder.

[Drey]

What I dont get is how would they plan on doing this? I know if I was a mutant with a kick-arse power that I would not let them do that to me. People would be dead by the time I'm "fixed".



I agree. It would not be a good thing if I was a mutant with a powerful ability either. I'd definately try to manipulate Trask by any means necessary and whatever higher ups that sided with him. Either that or just manipulate the numbers :tongue:

[7thangel]

Also Im sure that in the MU there are a lot of humans that support the mutants now and before the decimation, mostly young kids too. Just like in the real world there have always been people that support other people's cause even if they themselves weren't black themselves or gay or women etc. So to think that all humans are against mutants is ridiculous even if it seems like that in the comics at times.problem is, that's what you think but hardly ever shown.

in the MU, humans run the gamut, mostly selfish, but in comparison to the humans in the x-universe ghetto, they're rational. the x-universe are rabid, they practically seeth with hate. out of the blue, at the very thought of a mutant they go into lynch mode. they'll have scenes where a random citizen will blurt out mutie. it's more of a shock when it doesn't happen

but, the X-MU sometimes comes off as a post racial world, a world where class doesn't matter, nor sex and age, because they all join in and chase mutants to their deaths or near deaths at the drop of a hat :rolleyes: . that's apparently one thing they have in common, mutants recently don't seem to see colour, class, sex, orientation, or looks only issue they have is with humans.

issues like this prop x brings together strange bedfellows and hopefully they'll show the MU versions of those organizations that would oppose this, even those you would find on the opposite side of other issues. pro-choice, anti-abortion, anti-pop. control, civil rights, religious groups, etc in alliance with mutants vs pop. control, trask, religious groups, etc. at least a mention so the reader isn't guided to believe that practically everybody wants them wiped out.

personally, the issues within the mutant communities, whether it's between those that can pass and those who can't, race/colour, sex, orientation, etc is more interesting and is a continual missed opportunity to tell great stories. and it would still have the constant battles superhero books are meant to have

my 2 cents

[Perfection/Emma 2]

I swear the smartest thing Magneto ever said that "Mutants and MOST humans can never co exist". Personally if I was a mutant, I so would had been Brotherhood for let's be honest, Xaviar's dream of co existences was stupid as shit and should had worked with Magneto to wipe out MOST the human race for not every human hated mutants or at least the lounds mouths like Trask, Trish, Bastion who think their above mutants, but little do they known, their beneath a simple common cold. Also my complaint about the MU for years is that they show how dangerous mutants are to mankind, but act is if humans get along just find and don't kill, rape, rob one another. Honestly Marvel need to creates a batch of villains that are baseline humans and make theirselves public

[FeminineMystique]

No arguments here. No wonder he was blindsided by Dark Avenger, The Brick.

None can stand against the power of the The Brick!:biggrin:

[DarkBeast]

Good thread. I was waiting to read something like this. For quite a while I've been thinking that so many of the underlying aspects of Fraction's run are just absurd (which actually makes it more fun to read, imo).

First of all, the idea that anti-mutant hate would go UP after there were less than 200 mutants left, worldwide, is ridiculous. Mutants would be far less of a "problem" for humanity if that were the case.

Second of all, we keep hearing that anti-mutant CRIMES are at a record high. Uh...HUH?! How can that happen, when there can't be more than like 50 unaccounted-for mutants in the whole WORLD?! Once you take away all the heroes and villains we know about, there are like only 50 anonymous mutants left in the entire Marvel U, which means there would probably be only like 20 or so left in the U.S.. So, what, last month there were THREE anti-mutant crimes in the U.S. or something?! That's a record high?! The whole premise is ridiculous. There would have had to have been at least THOUSANDS of times more anti-mutant crimes BEFORE M-Day, because at that time there were actually many MILLIONS more mutants on the planet. (I think at one point, Fraction almost acknowledged this point, by saying that the figures included crimes against humans who used to be mutants before M-Day. Okay, that's REALLY weak...and I don't think it makes sense anyway. The hated-on group loses its distinguishing trait that makes it hated...yet the crimes against that group go up? Ridiculous.)

Third, Fraction's anti-mutant humans behave more ridiculously than any hate group ever dreamed up. Imagine that in 1943 or whatever, the Nazis found out that there were suddenly, as if by magic, fewer than two hundred Jews left in the entire world. Knowing that the complete genocide of their hated group was realistically within reach, would the Nazis at that point shut the concentration camps down, stop actually trying to hunt for the handful of remaining Jews, and instead turn their attentions to marching (relatively) peacefully and holding protest signs? At that point, with fewer than 200 Jewish people left, would the Nazis start trying to go the bureaucratic route, focusing their efforts on getting a bill passed that would say Jewish people can't reproduce anymore?!?! Would they do that instead of making a list of all the remaining Jews (which could fit on one sheet of paper at this point) and then hunting them down systematically? Is that how monstrous, hateful people, who have proven themselves to be murderers in the past, would act? Because that's how Fraction's hateful human villains are acting. Think about how ridiculous that is.

As others have said above, Prop X is also kind of ridiculous. There aren't any more mutant babies being born anyway (besides one fluke baby that happened like a year ago), so what's the point, from a storytelling perspective, of having this law? This is like the least meaningful moment in Marvel Universe history for there to be a law banning mutants from procreating...because mutants aren't being born anyway! Yeah, everyone gets that the law is hateful, but it's really just so beside-the-point. It's almost as ridiculous as a law that would say "Two homosexuals of the same sex may not consummate children!" Uh...sex between two males can't produce a child anyway, and sex between two females can't produce a child either. And right now in the Marvel U, sex between two mutants can't produce a mutant baby. So the Prop X idea is nearly pointless. It's just, "Oo! Hateful!!!" Shock. Gasp.

I think the parallels between Prop X and Prop 8 are kind of superficial. The two Propositions aren't really similar at all beyond the "OMG that's hateful!" aspect, which is really an uninteresting "one-note" idea as Fraction uses it. What Prop X would really be a strong parallel to would be legislation about gay people not being able to adopt children or something. But that's not in the headlines now, and as far as Uncanny goes Fraction seems able only to allude to aspects of society that the mainstream news is currently hyping.

Overall, I do like this run, but often it seems SO topical and SO superficial in its "social consciousness". A law against mutants having kids, huh. If in the real world there's ever a law against humans having kids (or more than one kid), maybe to fight off global warming in a roundabout way, I wonder would Fraction would be okay with THAT law provided that some government social experts told him it was the right thing to do and it "had to be done"? Sort of like how the government social experts in the Marvel U are telling people it's the right thing to do to prevent mutant births, because it's the only way to keep people safe? Would Fraction be capable of noticing the parallel between something like that and his Prop X? These are the questions I ask myself while I read his X-Men run (and by the way I'm not against laws that fight "over-population"; it's just an example).

[7thangel]

i was thinking this prop x would have been better if somehow mutants, depowered and x-gene carriers were giving birth to stillborns, severly sick and/or severly deformed babies and the debate was to stop births until a cure or an alternative.

this would set mutant vs mutant, human vs human, x-men vs x-men, but even that would be problematic due to the needed time for something like that to develop, making the x-gene be the cause at conception, and other things.

in the end, hopefully a good story is told, and personally i'm hoping no more ridiculous stuff become canon i.e. mutants can't get aids, secondary mutataions,...

[rzerox21xx]

Well snice Uncanny 500, doesnt Simon have some sort of power that would get people to side with him. Perhaps he got a bunch of weak minded people and use that powers to work his way around the government and get support for his laws. Simon arranged for the sentinels to be on display and probably had the art guy killed and he did something to a bouncer to get into some club. He been manuplating people and I think he did the same to some of the mutants. Remember Hellion got kidnapped by Leper, perhaps he got him to play his part as the irrational idiot mutant to attack him. This is all planned, considering his brother Bolivar is alive and working for Bastion who's also have Leper Queen working for him.

I'm also confuse, remember when Bastion revive all the major mutant killing bigots and one of them happen to be Bolivar Trask so maybe he's getting some sort of support from them. Also, remember that Leper Queen was having mutants going in public places and explode. So that could also have done something to increase Mutant Hate.

Still I can see the absurb elements to this story.

[Cam Man]

By Dark Beast
As others have said above, Prop X is also kind of ridiculous. There aren't any more mutant babies being born anyway (besides one fluke baby that happened like a year ago), so what's the point, from a storytelling perspective, of having this law? This is like the least meaningful moment in Marvel Universe history for there to be a law banning mutants from procreating...because mutants aren't being born anyway! Yeah, everyone gets that the law is hateful, but it's really just so beside-the-point. It's almost as ridiculous as a law that would say "Two homosexuals of the same sex may not consummate children!" Uh...sex between two males can't produce a child anyway, and sex between two females can't produce a child either. And right now in the Marvel U, sex between two mutants can't produce a mutant baby. So the Prop X idea is nearly pointless. It's just, "Oo! Hateful!!!" Shock. Gasp.

Thats an awsome point. lol. Very true though. However I can see some people in the US who would sign off on that law in an instant. Maybe Fraction isn't so far off afterall. I think really that we have had so many anti-mutant laws over the years that doing anything esle would just be repitive. Can't blame a guy for trying something (vaguely) new.

[Quinnhop]

Where is HulkSmash666?

I want some lulz.

[Kirayoshi]

What I wanna know is, where is the Right to Life movement in all this? A law calling for manditory sterilization of a small percentage of the population? You'd think that the right-to-lifers would be all over this case like ugly on an ape!

[RolandJP]

There is no recorded footage of the purifiers, marauders, or the X-men being there.

The only facts known to the general public is "Mutant baby born, everyone dead"

Fill in the dots from there.

Prejudice is without reason or logic. FEAR drives intolerance.

Whoops there goes the neighborhood...oh..do you have person X as a neighbor??

They are all [fill in the blank]

Why? Cause they are different. That is right folks that is all that it would take.

[Waterlily]

I find it completely believable that a minority group in America could be ordered to undergo compulsory sterilization (http://www.uvm.edu/~lkaelber/eugenics/). I find it believable that the puplic in the MU would let it happen.

[7thangel]

it's 2009, as it is in the MU, shit is a hell of a lot more subtle and there's a lot more allies and temporary allies on both sides of any issue for what takes place in the x-universe. hidden eugenics and population control has both the right and the left fighting tooth and nail against it loudly while those that try to find ways to integrate it or promote it, also from right and left circles, try various ways to hide their real intentions.

the hate in the MU is stock caricature evil.

[Cyclopsj316]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21774

Fraction says it was a "timed coincidence".

Wether we are to believe that or not is another question...

" I abhor that and find it repulsive and repugnant that gay marriage is banned. "

" I wish more than anything that Prop 8 would have been struck down, but this was an unfortunately timed coincidence. "

As to why this is taking place in San Francisco...

" To me, it felt right. It felt like an icon of political consciousness and resistance to the legislation of identity, regardless of what that identity is. "

Yeah, Prop X isn't supposed to be Prop 8's analogy.

Yeah, Fraction isn't making a Parallel to Mutants and homosexuals.

Yeah, Humanity Now isn't supposed to parallel conservative supporters of Prop 8.

Yeah... X-Men still parallels racial issues and not sexual preference issues.

... Yeah, I'm so SURE this was just Coincidence and has nothing to do with Fractions own personal advocacy on homosexual rights issues.... Riight....:rolleyes:

[Cyclopsj316]

As others have said above, Prop X is also kind of ridiculous. There aren't any more mutant babies being born anyway (besides one fluke baby that happened like a year ago), so what's the point, from a storytelling perspective, of having this law? This is like the least meaningful moment in Marvel Universe history for there to be a law banning mutants from procreating...because mutants aren't being born anyway! Yeah, everyone gets that the law is hateful, but it's really just so beside-the-point. It's almost as ridiculous as a law that would say "Two homosexuals of the same sex may not consummate children!" Uh...sex between two males can't produce a child anyway, and sex between two females can't produce a child either. And right now in the Marvel U, sex between two mutants can't produce a mutant baby. So the Prop X idea is nearly pointless. It's just, "Oo! Hateful!!!" Shock. Gasp.



Exactly.. it's just stupid.

Maybe they should tackle the plot of mutants not being born... before taking on the plot of a new law legislating mutants being born...

[Cyclopsj316]

What I wanna know is, where is the Right to Life movement in all this? A law calling for manditory sterilization of a small percentage of the population? You'd think that the right-to-lifers would be all over this case like ugly on an ape!

Exactly... if anything, the conservatives.. ( dah, i mean humanity now... ) would be fighting pro-life.... :tongue:

[FeminineMystique]

" I abhor that and find it repulsive and repugnant that gay marriage is banned. "

" I wish more than anything that Prop 8 would have been struck down, but this was an unfortunately timed coincidence. "

As to why this is taking place in San Francisco...

" To me, it felt right. It felt like an icon of political consciousness and resistance to the legislation of identity, regardless of what that identity is. "

Yeah, Prop X isn't supposed to be Prop 8's analogy.

Yeah, Fraction isn't making a Parallel to Mutants and homosexuals.

Yeah, Humanity Now isn't supposed to parallel conservative supporters of Prop 8.

Yeah... X-Men still parallels racial issues and not sexual preference issues.

... Yeah, I'm so SURE this was just Coincidence and has nothing to do with Fractions own personal advocacy on homosexual rights issues.... Riight....:rolleyes:

I've got nothing against Fraction advocating gay rights. Prop 8 was a revolting idea and that it wasn't struck down is a sad look at how much bigotry still exists in America

I just wish Fraction could be a little more SUBTLE with the analogy. Trask and his followers are just stock caricatures, spouting cliched "Down with the muties" lines.

And that stuff was old back in the 80's. Today it's just annoying.

[Azure]

I've got nothing against Fraction advocating gay rights. Prop 8 was a revolting idea and that it wasn't struck down is a sad look at how much bigotry still exists in America

I just wish Fraction could be a little more SUBTLE with the analogy. Trask and his followers are just stock caricatures, spouting cliched "Down with the muties" lines.

And that stuff was old back in the 80's. Today it's just annoying.

In fairness, he is being paralysed by a weirdo disease injected into him by a severed head with a robotic body. But yes, perhaps a touch more subtlety would be nice.

[coveredinbees]

Third: Imagine that in 1943 or whatever, the Nazis found out that there were suddenly, as if by magic, fewer than two hundred Jews left in the entire world.
......................It's just long, ya know?.........................
Think about how ridiculous that is.
How many mutant death camps were there before Decimation? I remember some of those type of things during Zero Tolerance but I can't tihnk of any more. There's the Facility, but I wouldn't count that.
It's probably illeagal by now in the MU to have those. It's against the law to kill them, IIRC. Stryker already tried the list idea, and by getting this bill passed legally, Trask will end the mutant race (wherever it would apply) just the same as he would have by killing them (he doesn't know where every mutant is, he wouldn't be able to hunt down them all anyway).


I didn't know the humans knew about no more mutant births. When did they find out? Is it just known?
Anyhow, if ONE was born, the fear will exist that others could be born. Most humans don't have mutant locators, and powers don't manifest until puberty.
Why is it stupid of them to attack the reprodcutive rights of the X-Gene carriers when there are very few left? They aren't friends with the mutants, they don't feel sorry for them because they lost a chunk of their people. It's an oppurtunity to eliminate the "abominations."

It's not unbelievable:
I find it completely believable that a minority group in America could be ordered to undergo compulsory sterilization (http://www.uvm.edu/~lkaelber/eugenics/). I find it believable that the puplic in the MU would let it happen.

I don't think it's a "stupid plot," I think it could be improved and I think it's over used, though.

[Nicoclaws]

Just a quick question... most of the mutants have totally human parents, have they not ? This and the point made in the first post should prove that the Prop X things is totally pointless.

[xgeek52]

you would think wouldn't you...

but that's not the case...

[That JonoGuy]

I don't find Proposition X to be all that unrealistic.

[xgeek52]

it's not -- as well as complusory sterlization...

it was proposed back in the '70s for the black population...by the federal government...it never went anywhere...

[Omega Alpha]

First of all, the idea that anti-mutant hate would go UP after there were less than 200 mutants left, worldwide, is ridiculous. Mutants would be far less of a "problem" for humanity if that were the case.

Second of all, we keep hearing that anti-mutant CRIMES are at a record high. Uh...HUH?! How can that happen, when there can't be more than like 50 unaccounted-for mutants in the whole WORLD?! Once you take away all the heroes and villains we know about, there are like only 50 anonymous mutants left in the entire Marvel U, which means there would probably be only like 20 or so left in the U.S.. So, what, last month there were THREE anti-mutant crimes in the U.S. or something?! That's a record high?! The whole premise is ridiculous. There would have had to have been at least THOUSANDS of times more anti-mutant crimes BEFORE M-Day, because at that time there were actually many MILLIONS more mutants on the planet. (I think at one point, Fraction almost acknowledged this point, by saying that the figures included crimes against humans who used to be mutants before M-Day. Okay, that's REALLY weak...and I don't think it makes sense anyway. The hated-on group loses its distinguishing trait that makes it hated...yet the crimes against that group go up? Ridiculous.)

Third, Fraction's anti-mutant humans behave more ridiculously than any hate group ever dreamed up. Imagine that in 1943 or whatever, the Nazis found out that there were suddenly, as if by magic, fewer than two hundred Jews left in the entire world. Knowing that the complete genocide of their hated group was realistically within reach, would the Nazis at that point shut the concentration camps down, stop actually trying to hunt for the handful of remaining Jews, and instead turn their attentions to marching (relatively) peacefully and holding protest signs? At that point, with fewer than 200 Jewish people left, would the Nazis start trying to go the bureaucratic route, focusing their efforts on getting a bill passed that would say Jewish people can't reproduce anymore?!?! Would they do that instead of making a list of all the remaining Jews (which could fit on one sheet of paper at this point) and then hunting them down systematically? Is that how monstrous, hateful people, who have proven themselves to be murderers in the past, would act? Because that's how Fraction's hateful human villains are acting. Think about how ridiculous that is.

As others have said above, Prop X is also kind of ridiculous. There aren't any more mutant babies being born anyway (besides one fluke baby that happened like a year ago), so what's the point, from a storytelling perspective, of having this law? This is like the least meaningful moment in Marvel Universe history for there to be a law banning mutants from procreating...because mutants aren't being born anyway! Yeah, everyone gets that the law is hateful, but it's really just so beside-the-point. It's almost as ridiculous as a law that would say "Two homosexuals of the same sex may not consummate children!" Uh...sex between two males can't produce a child anyway, and sex between two females can't produce a child either. And right now in the Marvel U, sex between two mutants can't produce a mutant baby. So the Prop X idea is nearly pointless. It's just, "Oo! Hateful!!!" Shock. Gasp.

I think the parallels between Prop X and Prop 8 are kind of superficial. The two Propositions aren't really similar at all beyond the "OMG that's hateful!" aspect, which is really an uninteresting "one-note" idea as Fraction uses it. What Prop X would really be a strong parallel to would be legislation about gay people not being able to adopt children or something. But that's not in the headlines now, and as far as Uncanny goes Fraction seems able only to allude to aspects of society that the mainstream news is currently hyping.

Overall, I do like this run, but often it seems SO topical and SO superficial in its "social consciousness". A law against mutants having kids, huh. If in the real world there's ever a law against humans having kids (or more than one kid), maybe to fight off global warming in a roundabout way, I wonder would Fraction would be okay with THAT law provided that some government social experts told him it was the right thing to do and it "had to be done"? Sort of like how the government social experts in the Marvel U are telling people it's the right thing to do to prevent mutant births, because it's the only way to keep people safe? Would Fraction be capable of noticing the parallel between something like that and his Prop X? These are the questions I ask myself while I read his X-Men run (and by the way I'm not against laws that fight "over-population"; it's just an example).


I'm late, but still have to say that is a fantastic post. Couldn't agree more.

[jarrod]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=21774

Fraction says it was a "timed coincidence".

Wether we are to believe that or not is another question...
Coincidence or not, the current comic concept has been pretty blatantly framed around Prop 8, despite Fraction's claims to the contrary.

[Cyclopsj316]

Coincidence or not, the current comic concept has been pretty blatantly framed around Prop 8, despite Fraction's claims to the contrary.

Blatant is right... and quite frankly, I really don't wanna read about more Anti Prop 8 garbage. Maybe I'm biased cause I live here in San Francisco and I'm tired of all the whining. Maybe everybody else wants to read more about Prop 8 in other places...

.. I just wanna read about X-Men, and not Fractions personal homosexual rights advocacy agenda.

[That JonoGuy]

Blatant is right... and quite frankly, I really don't wanna read about more Anti Prop 8 garbage. Maybe I'm biased cause I live here in San Francisco and I'm tired of all the whining. Maybe everybody else wants to read more about Prop 8 in other places...

.. I just wanna read about X-Men, and not Fractions personal equal rights advocacy agenda.

fixed it for you

[Cyclopsj316]

fucked it up for you

No you didn't. You just fucked it up. ( So i fixed yer post as well )

You do know that we as a society get together, vote on MORAL issues, and vote on who gets what rights and who gets less... right?

- Inmates don't have our rights.
- Adult Siblings who love each other cannot marry.

And on and on..... so yeah, that "equal rights" garbage yer spouting is just that. As a black man, i find it repulsive that so many people are now trying to equate " SEXUAL PREFERENCE " with "RACE".

[That JonoGuy]

No you didn't. You just fucked it up. ( So i fixed yer post as well )

You do know that we as a society get together, vote on MORAL issues, and vote on who gets what rights and who gets less... right?

- Inmates don't have our rights.
- Adult Siblings who love each other cannot marry.

And on and on..... so yeah, that "equal rights" garbage yer spouting is just that. As a black man, i find it repulsive that so many people are now trying to equate " SEXUAL PREFERENCE " with "RACE".

You need to go back to school. Someone has been feeding you garbage.

My sexual orientation isn't a preference. It is something that I was born with, just like mutants in the Marvel Universe. Feel free to hold onto your ignorant views though.

[Cyclopsj316]

You need to go back to school. Someone has been feeding you garbage.

You need to try out school for the first time.. someone has been feeding you shit.