"True Blood" and race relations in the modern US South

[ShaunN]

Dear Friends,

Hi! I recently started watching the HBO series "True Blood" and have been enjoying it (after two episodes). On a recent flight, I bought the first of the Charlaine Harris books in the Sookie Stackhouse series, called "Dead Until Dark". I decided to read the book to see how closely the novels and the TV show follow each other. I enjoyed the book enough that I will probably pick up the next book in the series. (I understand that the first season of the show followed the first book quite closely).

I noticed something that I found interesting: the character of Tara (the African-American waitress) does not exist in the book and, even more interesting, Sookie makes a point of saying that black people don't tend to come into Merlotte's, the bar where she works. This drew my attention to the fact that there are only two black characters in the book - Lafayette, the cook (who figures very prominently in the TV show) and Kenya, a female police officer. All of the other characters are white (mostly poor whites, which is Sookie's socioeconomic class and also the clientele for Merlotte's). It seems to me that this feels right - the self-segregation of the races is probably still very common in many places in the US, but particularly in the South.

So, my question is: does the TV show present an unrealistically high level of racial integration? Was Tara introduced precisely because someone noticed that the only somewhat prominent black character was a gay cook? (Tara may appear in later books in the series, of course). Indeed, in the book, when Sookie reluctantly informs her friends that she is dating a vampire, Lafayette makes a comment to the effect that he had thought she was about to say she was dating a black man - something that would still have been taboo, apparently.

As a broader question: is this just the tendency of US entertainment to depict an idealized world as opposed to the "real" world? If so, is there a problem with this?

Shaun

[section 8]

I've not seen the series, but in a lot of cases racial tenson in the south is greatly exaggerated in entertainment.

Don't get me wrong racial tension/racism DOES exist in the south, but in entertainment it is greatly exaggerated IMO

[BnL]

I haven't read the books, but I assumed that, while the acceptance of blacks (and to a lesser extent, gays) is a bit idealistic in the TV show, it's purposely done to contrast with the blatant prejudice against vampires.

[ShaunN]

Section 8 - I find your response interesting. When I first started writing the thread, I thought to myself "well, obviously, there are going to be largely black hangouts and largely white hangouts - that's true in many places, for many reasons, and it would certainly be true in the US South."

Is this an example of what Merlotte's is in the book? It does seem to me that, even in the TV show, there are a very small number of black characters in the show or even as patrons in the background, especially for a place like Louisiana.

You may be right about the racial tension issue being exaggerated. On the other hand, Harris is writing about the contemporary South and, I believe, she is a Southerner.

[tangentman]

Segregation is alive and well in the South. These days, it seems to occur voluntarily, with folks of varying races "sticking w/their own". When I first returned to Georgia years ago, a classmate joined a friend & I for lunch at our invitation. We were Caucasian, she was African-American. She commented that it was "the first time she'd really hung out w/white people". This was late 90's, and a very surprising statement to me. I think part of that is what one might call a "New Separatism" at work. I noticed it more on college campuses, but it seemed "safer" to avoid the other races and show solidarity.

A huge factor in this "segregation" is socioeconomic status. There's very much a class divide in the South; I definitely see it in Savannah. Unfortunately, more black folks are on the lower end of the SES scale in these parts. It doesn't surprise me that one might not see much co-mingling of races. Add in cultural differences, and you've got what seems like a chasm between two populations.

From what I've seen, it's also dramatically pronounced in smaller towns. One still finds separate proms--"Black" proms & "White" proms. :rolleyes: The divisiveness happens in the cities, but it's not as obvious as, say, Portal, GA.

[West Mantooth]

You can find the whatever version of the "race relations" story you want. The dirty secret is the north and south are more close than ever. I'm from a small town in Mississippi and my story completely contradicts Tangentman. Yet I went to my cousins graduation in Michigan and was shocked at how overwhelmingly black the class was( like 99%). Our class never got over 55-45 percent black.

And yes the social-economic angle does create a gulf between proper intergration but the idea of never hanging with White people before sounds ridiculous to me.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I've not seen the series, but in a lot of cases racial tenson in the south is greatly exaggerated in entertainment.

Don't get me wrong racial tension/racism DOES exist in the south, but in entertainment it is greatly exaggerated IMO

Pretty much true. And whats sad is some (I have seen it ) believe it and think the entire region of the south all fit what they see in enertainment. Kinda sad....

[West Mantooth]

Pretty much true. And whats sad is some (I have seen it ) believe it and think the entire region of the south all fit what they see in enertainment. Kinda sad....

The dirty secret is the north and south are more close than ever in terms of race relations.

[Charles RB]

The dirty secret is the north and south are more close than ever in terms of race relations.

The way I see it told is that the south is just more obvious when it's being racist, and the north just is better at hiding it.

[Joe Acro]

I suppose it would depend on where in the South the show takes places.

[Expletive Deleted]

I noticed something that I found interesting: the character of Tara (the African-American waitress) does not exist in the book ...She first appears in the second book.

I took her inclusion from the start as attempt to stretch out the plot to twelve episodes, rather than any statement on race relations.

[Sally Sensational]

I suppose it would depend on where in the South the show takes places.

North Louisiana. Where I am from. In fact, not 20 miles from where I am from.

And, no, Tara is not black in the novels. Nor are any of the characters other than Lafayette - who, incidentally, doesn't make it long before moving on. The "racial" situation in the books is the reality of small-town north Louisiana and south Arkansas - voluntary separation.

Analyzing race relations in areas like this is a real challenge. What people outside of the area tend to see as OMG RACISM doesn't really exist any more. You won't find many white people who actually believe that blacks or latinos are less than they are. However, you also won't find integrated neighborhoods. You won't find kids picking on each other in school because of skin color, but you also won't find racially integrated tables in the lunch room.

The "dirty secret" of the whole thing is that people OUTSIDE the area still want to view people who live there as ignorant, racist, rednecks (even the blacks) rather than folks whose lives are as varied, complicated, and nuanced as any Harvard Ph.D. holding court at a cocktail party in New York City.

So now, in order to enjoy some weird sort of double superiority, the entertainment industry - including the producers of True Blood - have made it their business to take a set of stories in which the reality of race relations in ONE SPECIFIC area of the South is portrayed realistically and make some characters look like idiot rednecks (I'm looking at you Anna Paquin's dialect coach!) and change yet other characters' races in order to show that they are oh so sensitive and respecting of diversity.

Oh, and add Porn. Lots of porn. But maybe that's just HBO. It certainly isn't in the books. If you're looking for True Blood level sex, don't read Charlaine Harris; read Laurell K. Hamilton.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The dirty secret is the north and south are more close than ever in terms of race relations.

The way I see it told is that the south is just more obvious when it's being racist, and the north just is better at hiding it.

I've heard that mentioned as well.

[section 8]

Segregation is alive and well in the South. These days, it seems to occur voluntarily, with folks of varying races "sticking w/their own". When I first returned to Georgia years ago, a classmate joined a friend & I for lunch at our invitation. We were Caucasian, she was African-American. She commented that it was "the first time she'd really hung out w/white people". This was late 90's, and a very surprising statement to me. I think part of that is what one might call a "New Separatism" at work. I noticed it more on college campuses, but it seemed "safer" to avoid the other races and show solidarity.

A huge factor in this "segregation" is socioeconomic status. There's very much a class divide in the South; I definitely see it in Savannah. Unfortunately, more black folks are on the lower end of the SES scale in these parts. It doesn't surprise me that one might not see much co-mingling of races. Add in cultural differences, and you've got what seems like a chasm between two populations.

From what I've seen, it's also dramatically pronounced in smaller towns. One still finds separate proms--"Black" proms & "White" proms. :rolleyes: The divisiveness happens in the cities, but it's not as obvious as, say, Portal, GA.
This is somewhat true,

In Myrtle Beach South Carolina there are two bike weeks.
Officially there's one for the Harleys, and another for the Japanese crotch-rocket style bikes.

Somehow, they end up being (for the most part) "black bike week" and "white bike week"

[DavidAllred]

I've found segregation every place I've ever been, certain things like bars and grocery stores and swimming pools are all located within certain neighborhoods and in just about every city I've ever been in -- north, south, east, west -- there's at least one "black" end of town, one "white" end, and a bunch of mixed communities. I doubt seriously the South is all that unique, except it is probably a bit more open here, meaning people are more likely to talk about which of town is which.

[ShaunN]

North Louisiana. Where I am from. In fact, not 20 miles from where I am from.

And, no, Tara is not black in the novels. Nor are any of the characters other than Lafayette - who, incidentally, doesn't make it long before moving on. The "racial" situation in the books is the reality of small-town north Louisiana and south Arkansas - voluntary separation.

Analyzing race relations in areas like this is a real challenge. What people outside of the area tend to see as OMG RACISM doesn't really exist any more. You won't find many white people who actually believe that blacks or latinos are less than they are. However, you also won't find integrated neighborhoods. You won't find kids picking on each other in school because of skin color, but you also won't find racially integrated tables in the lunch room.

The "dirty secret" of the whole thing is that people OUTSIDE the area still want to view people who live there as ignorant, racist, rednecks (even the blacks) rather than folks whose lives are as varied, complicated, and nuanced as any Harvard Ph.D. holding court at a cocktail party in New York City.

So now, in order to enjoy some weird sort of double superiority, the entertainment industry - including the producers of True Blood - have made it their business to take a set of stories in which the reality of race relations in ONE SPECIFIC area of the South is portrayed realistically and make some characters look like idiot rednecks (I'm looking at you Anna Paquin's dialect coach!) and change yet other characters' races in order to show that they are oh so sensitive and respecting of diversity.

Oh, and add Porn. Lots of porn. But maybe that's just HBO. It certainly isn't in the books. If you're looking for True Blood level sex, don't read Charlaine Harris; read Laurell K. Hamilton.


Dear Sally,

Thanks, this is exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for, and from someone who is there. It's also really interesting that Tara is not black in the books.

I suspect that Harris is realistically depicting life in small-town Louisiana - and, in that world, whites and blacks don't mix. You indicate that it's not overt racism, but it is racism, perhaps practiced by both/all sides. The phenomenon of black and white proms speaks to the reality of the real gulf that still exists between the races in the US - perhaps more obviously in the South than the North, but everywhere.

There is a difference, I think, between clubs that cater to particular groups of people and cultures that are built around division.

I'm looking forward to reading more of the Harris books and I'll be watching to see how she deals with racial questions. Interestingly, I get the sense that it's easier in her books to have relations with vampires than to cross the colour barrier.

Thanks,

Shaun

[Sally Sensational]

Just for clarification: NO ONE in North Louisiana has Black and White Proms. The Prom includes all students of all races who attend a specific school and are in a certain grade or grades (and their dates, which in my area, were often of a different race).

I've lived in and around the area for, well, 20 years now, and I've never heard of such a thing. If it existed, there would be horrible lawsuits and screaming headlines about it every Spring.

Link please on an actual case of this type of segregation occurring?

[J.R. LeMar]

Link please on an actual case of this type of segregation occurring?

http://livesteez.com/news/read/Segregated-Proms-for-Black-and-White-Students-in-the-Deep-South/1938.html

[J.R. LeMar]

Here's more, about a school that Morgan Freeman got involved in.

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur50185.cfm

http://campaigns.hellocoolworld.com/index.cfm?campaign_id=3

[ShaunN]

JR - thanks for the links. I'd heard about this and I was thinking, I believe, of the one that involved Freeman. So, that's Mississippi and Georgia, if not Louisiana.

[J.R. LeMar]

JR - thanks for the links. I'd heard about this and I was thinking, I believe, of the one that involved Freeman. So, that's Mississippi and Georgia, if not Louisiana.

Yes, but I thought we were discussing race relations in "The Modern US South" in general. I guess Sally's question was specifically about North Louisiana, in particular.

Still, I was surprised to read those stories. I, of course, knew that there were still places were interracial relationships were considered taboo, but the reality of self-segregated Proms like this, in 2009, is quite disturbing. Especially since, in both stories, it seems like most of the opposition comes from parents, not the actual students.

[ShaunN]

JR - yes, we were discussing the US South and even the US as a whole. My original question was asked in the context of "True Blood" and Lousiana, but it was not meant to be restricted to that state.

Thanks again.

[Indigo Al]

What I've been finding uncomfortable about True Blood Season 2:






SPOILER

Lafayette being depicted/treated like a slave. I know there's an in-story explanation as to why that happened that has nothing to do with racism, but the end result is very,very uncomfortable...

[DavidAllred]

Just for clarification: NO ONE in North Louisiana has Black and White Proms. The Prom includes all students of all races who attend a specific school and are in a certain grade or grades (and their dates, which in my area, were often of a different race).

I've lived in and around the area for, well, 20 years now, and I've never heard of such a thing. If it existed, there would be horrible lawsuits and screaming headlines about it every Spring.


Never heard of anything like that around here either. Worst I heard of was a country club in Birmingham about four hours from here that was still segregated. I don't know if that was formally or informally segregated though.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Race relations depends alot on the size of the town.

The bigger the town, the more likely it is that you will have inter-racial relations, whether that be inregards to friendships or something else.

There's still some amount of segregation but thats true beyond just white and black, or black and latino its also true based on nationality, large romanian population that pretty much lives in its own colony around where I am.

People of similiar religions, "surprisingly" enough attend the same churches, go to similiar schools etc...and so on.

Like draws to like, culture, religion, class, skin's just the starting line for it.

[tangentman]

And yes the social-economic angle does create a gulf between proper intergration but the idea of never hanging with White people before sounds ridiculous to me.

I'm quoting what that friend told me. She literally said, "This is the first time I've ever gone out with white people." I felt as incredulous as you, but that was HER account, not something I just pulled out of my ass.

[ShaunN]

Race relations depends alot on the size of the town.

The bigger the town, the more likely it is that you will have inter-racial relations, whether that be inregards to friendships or something else.

There's still some amount of segregation but thats true beyond just white and black, or black and latino its also true based on nationality, large romanian population that pretty much lives in its own colony around where I am.

People of similiar religions, "surprisingly" enough attend the same churches, go to similiar schools etc...and so on.

Like draws to like, culture, religion, class, skin's just the starting line for it.


Dear Gumbo,

I was trying to account for this when I asked the question. I am familiar with Toronto, where I lived for eight years and which is one of the (if not the) most ethnically and racially diverse cities in the world. There, there are many communities of people who have their own clubs, restaurants and community gatherings. There are even examples of school kids who stick to their "own kind", often under pressure from parents and because of things like language and cultural ties. However, as common as this kind of thing is, it has not stopped long-term intermingling and connections. For many people, one of the most appealing things about Toronto is the diversity. So, diversity is maintained, but there are always people crossing the various barriers and interacting. Usually, within 3-4 generations, these barriers have largely broken down (and that process may be accelerating).

It seems to me that what we are discussing in the US (focus on the South) is different. The barriers have been in place much longer, to the point that "traditions" have been established around them. They probably are breaking down but, in small towns, where the ability to interact with people of different races is even stronger and less conflictual than in larger cities, the barriers are strongest.

So, I don' think this is an example of what I described in Toronto, and which I think you can find in every major, cosmopolitan city with large immigrant populations. The divisions in the US South are racial, generational and maintained/reinforced over time.


To Indigo Al: yes, that made me a bit uncomfortable too.

[MichaelChen]

I live in a tiny town in the deep, deep, deeep south, and the race thing is incredibly exaggerated by Hollywood. I see interracial couples on routine basis, and no gives them any shit. I see african-americans in positions of power. Again, no yehawing group of rednecks comes around and strings them up for being "uppity". There are little signs of racism if you look hard enough, but no more than you find in New York or California.

[West Mantooth]

I'm quoting what that friend told me. She literally said, "This is the first time I've ever gone out with white people." I felt as incredulous as you, but that was HER account, not something I just pulled out of my ass.

Oh, I wasn't saying you were lying or anything. Just crazy to hear. It just seems impossible not to socialize with other races through work or school in some from or another.

Race relations depends alot on the size of the town.

The bigger the town, the more likely it is that you will have inter-racial relations, whether that be inregards to friendships or something else.

That's the exact opposite of what I've seen. In larger cities, you're more likely to see "Little Havana" or "Chinatown" type situations. Or all black schools and all white schools.

In small towns you don't have the luxury of so many schools, jobs, etc to choose from so you're more likely to intermingle on some basis. Even if you don't really talk in your home life.




There's still some amount of segregation but thats true beyond just white and black, or black and latino its also true based on nationality, large romanian population that pretty much lives in its own colony around where I am.

People of similiar religions, "surprisingly" enough attend the same churches, go to similiar schools etc...and so on.

Like draws to like, culture, religion, class, skin's just the starting line for it.

That's always been true. Even internally of race. Poor whites don't live or operate where rich whites do. I was shocked when I saw a documentary about Brazil's slums overlooking the tourist beaches.

[Solaris]

Race relations depends alot on the size of the town.

The bigger the town, the more likely it is that you will have inter-racial relations, whether that be inregards to friendships or something else.

There's still some amount of segregation but thats true beyond just white and black, or black and latino its also true based on nationality, large romanian population that pretty much lives in its own colony around where I am.

People of similiar religions, "surprisingly" enough attend the same churches, go to similiar schools etc...and so on.

Like draws to like, culture, religion, class, skin's just the starting line for it.


Self-segregation is a very real phenomenon, and I agree with the rest here in saying that separation of racial groups mostly tends to occur for that reason. There's a natural drive in most people to seek others who have something in common with ourselves; in the case of hanging out with one's own race, sometimes it's because of shared interest... but sometimes, too, it's "playing it safe." People fear rejection, and when you have something visibly in common with another person, somewhere inside your mind a little voice says, "This person is less likely to reject me." We do it with interests, we do it with gender, we do it with religion and politics and economic class, and we do it with race. It *feels* safer, somehow... and though that's not the only reason people group together racially, I don't think we should ignore it, either.

And while there's nothing *wrong* with gravitating to your own race, and enjoying shared background/culture/experiences, I think it's also important to encourage kids to value the diversity, too, and to try making friends and hanging out with people of other races/cultures/backgrounds.

I've got cross-racial friendships where race rarely comes up, and when it does, it's all about learning from each others experiences... but I've also had at least one where the friend "drifted away" largely because my not being black (as in, not having the experience of being black) was too important to her. I'm still really sad about that one, because I love this person a lot... but her whole life became immersed in "the trials and experiences of the black female, and blacks in general." She's not racist, and genuinely cares about the concerns of other races---but when it came to "hang out time," she just drifted away. :frown: I miss her a lot... but I can understand how part of it was likely that she just got tired of explaining references, etc., from her particular part of Black American Culture.

Back to topic, we do this with gender as well. There's a *ton* of "Well you know how a *man* is going to see that..." and "Women: who understands them?" ideologies out there that people throw around all the time. I'm actually very conscious of these, and while sometimes I'll throw them around a little in a joking fashion, I tend to limit them a lot. After all---there are men out there who will ask "Do these pants make my butt look big?" and women out there who simply will *not* stop and ask for directions. :tongue:

I think we have to be conscious of such stereotypes and be careful in not over-using them... because when you do, they gradually creep into your serious thought processes... and isn't the whole idea to get *beyond* stereotypes? Speaking from the ladies' side of things, there are men out there who enjoy doing beer and pizza and watching football "with the guys"... and then there are men who see the stereotype as their identity. The latter cling to it, and are genuinely afraid to show things like "I like to read intellectual and romance books," "I enjoy watching ballet," "I love to ballroom dance with my wife," "I cry at movies," etc.

Taking all that back to race, sometimes an individual who hangs out with people of a different race is accused of "trying to be ________" (insert race). Vanilla Ice got it, Clarence Thomas got it. Lots of people have gotten that reaction from others. While one can make the case that a famous member of a minority should, in some fashion, represent or espouse the concerns of said minority... at the same time, often there's some level of "chicken-pecking" going on. In the end, it's the individual's right to be who they are and to choose their own friends, lifestyle, etc. To put it bluntly, there are still black people out there who perceive other blacks who are well-educated and who speak proper English with clear distinction as "uppity" or even "Uncle Toms"... and white people out there who look at a white guy who hangs with black guys, talks Ebonics, and raps for a living, and scorn him for "trying to be black and failing." (And there are blacks who see it that way, too.) Races tend to chastise individuals who largely live in and with the cultural aspects associated, by stereotype, with a different culture. Which may be yet another reason most people tend to "keep to their own kind" for the most part: hanging with a different race/culture often brings negative feedback or even chastisement from one's own race/culture, even to the point of people saying things like "You're not black enough," whatever that means. Or "Indian enough," or "Korean enough," etc.

Gotta turn the 'puter back over to the kiddo for a while... catch you guys later.

[Charles RB]

Especially since, in both stories, it seems like most of the opposition comes from parents, not the actual students.

That sadly doesn't surprise me.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

Well; in small towns it basically doesn't exist at all, admitably this is from my own personal experience of the south, not fact based or anything.

But the smaller the town the more likely it is not to have any minorities at all.

Of course I grew up in a town of a few hundred people and went to school in a county that had maybe a couple thousand or so people, the school itself only had around 300 odd people in it.

The town I grew up in had no minorities, the school I went to, including the people who stayed a very short period of time had maybe 20 people of different minorities and thats factoring in exchange students and kids who were only there a few months.

For long term; actual lived there students were talking maybe 5. Thats not just black; thats factoring in bi-racial etc....

Though as the town grew so did the minority population.

There's a mexican part thats pretty much totally cut off on its own.

And they interacted well enough; were polite if you grew up there but no inter-racial boyfriend girlfriend stuff. Though if you were out of town minority don't expect them to be so nice.



Oh, I wasn't saying you were lying or anything. Just crazy to hear. It just seems impossible not to socialize with other races through work or school in some from or another.



That's the exact opposite of what I've seen. In larger cities, you're more likely to see "Little Havana" or "Chinatown" type situations. Or all black schools and all white schools.

In small towns you don't have the luxury of so many schools, jobs, etc to choose from so you're more likely to intermingle on some basis. Even if you don't really talk in your home life.





That's always been true. Even internally of race. Poor whites don't live or operate where rich whites do. I was shocked when I saw a documentary about Brazil's slums overlooking the tourist beaches.

[Joe Acro]

North Louisiana. Where I am from. In fact, not 20 miles from where I am from.
Ah. Well, having never stayed in Louisiana, I can't comment.