Wow just wow....

[Briareos]

http://www.ktvz.com/global/story.asp?s=10602390

[Pink Bat Maxine]

Who'd like to begin the countdown until this thread gets merged?

[Briareos]

and Gail lives there! Scarry huh...

[thehod]

Who'd like to begin the countdown until this thread gets merged?

Five......

http://www.geocities.com/johntracytb5/thunderbird5.jpg

[40footwolf]

Five......

http://www.geocities.com/johntracytb5/thunderbird5.jpg

Four...

http://www.culturalheritagetourism.org/images/extras/fourSteps.jpg

[a. non]

three
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1347/numbuh3kuki.jpg

[Sabrinaset]

Two! (Twins!)

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/814/medium/Johnny_Test_Wallpaper.jpg

[Alex L]

http://www.yogee.com.au/images/41001_Uno_Cards_A.jpg

[Mike Smash!]

Hooray for manufactured outrage!

As many of you know, I am neither a Democrat or Republican, so I'm not going to dive into the mindless partisan cheerleading session that folks like Briareos are so fond of. It doesn't do anyone any good to engage in knee jerk "Democrat BAD! Republican GOOD!" (or vice versa) tribalism.

I live in the state of Washington, which has both the initiative and the referendum. Though I'm not a fan of the folks that usually take advantage of these democratic tools, I think that they're worthwhile venues for increased voter participation and a way to give the electorate more power to shape their laws, especially when you have an unresponsive legislature.

The initiative process is easy enough to understand. Let's say I want to raise or lower a tax on cigarettes. I would have to write legislation or amend it as if I were a member of the state legislature and then gather enough signatures from registered voters in my state to get it on the ballot.

My state has an additional option for initiatives, where you can designate it as an initiative to the people, calling for the initiative to be put immediately on the November ballot for a vote. Or one can write an initiative to the legislature. In this case, once its gotten enough signatures, the legislature has the option to take a hint at the hundreds of thousands of folks who support it, and pass it themselves, or they can put it before the people.

Then on the November ballot, if you like the initiative, you vote "Yes." If not, you vote "No."

Simple enough. Easy to understand.

But referenda are different and it's here where I think that Briareos is just parroting something that a right-wing blog told him to be angry about. With a referendum, the voter is voting not on a piece of new legislation put forth by the campaign gathering signatures, but on an already-passed piece of legislation that the campaigners are opposed to.

An example. In my state in 2006, a coalition of right-wing churches and activists organized to put a referendum on the ballot to challenge a new anti-discrimination bill that expanded older anti-discrimination laws in regards to employment, housing and medical care, to include sexual orientation. Basically gays and lesbians would be protected from discrimination in these areas in the same way that women and racial minorities already were.

So, even though the campaigners were against this law, voters would be voting on the new law, not the churches' position. So the Yes/No dynamic on the ballot was reversed, and can cause a bit of confusion.

On the referendum, voting "Yes" meant that you supported the anti-discrimination bill, and "No" meant that you wanted it thrown out.

This is potentially confusing as many people can assume, as with initiatives, that "Yes" is a vote in favor of the position that put the question on the ballot, and "No" would register opposition to it.

In fact, the pro-gay rights coalition that grew out of opposition to the churches' campaign, had to put a lot of effort into educating people that they wanted them to vote "Yes", rather than "No" out of reflex.

So the bill mentioned in the link Briareos provided doesn't seem like a beyond-the-pale action of a legislature out of control, but instead like an attempt to have some consistency so that voters aren't accidentally bringing about the opposite result of the one they intend. Provided that it's done right, it would actually make voting on these ballot questions much easier, as the system would more closely mirror initiatives.

I am not overly opinionated on the matter, but I lean towards thinking it's a good idea. A good idea, regardless of the party advocating it.

So, I ask, where is the outrage coming from, if not reflexive partisanship and faux-outrage?

And for the love of all things Kirby, can we please retire the internet phrase, "Wow, just wow" already?

[buttler]

And for the love of all things Kirby, can we please retire the internet phrase, "Wow, just wow" already?

I suggest "Great Nixon's Ghost!"

[thehod]

And for the love of all things Kirby, can we please retire the internet phrase, "Wow, just wow" already?

No, I think "Wow, just wow" covers perfectly adequately just how much of a non-story this is.

[the4thpip]

I didn't click the link, so I will just assume that this thread is about invisible myspace profiles.

What are they? Are they threat or menace? Is it ok to "friend" them? Is it possible to "enemy" somebody on myspace?

[shrike]

Bri, you were SPECIFICALLY asked (told) by Corrina to keep this kind of rubbish in the political mega thread.

This is the SECOND time you have went against what they've asked. As such, I have reported you to the mods. If they say something or request something, DO IT.

[Charles RB]

Five......

http://www.geocities.com/johntracytb5/thunderbird5.jpg

No one remembers Thunderbird 6. :frown: