Whet everr happened to Ferdinand?

[K-DoG7p7]

Ferdinand as in the chef at the Themysciran embassy .. he was cool

[Corrina]

He's out sniffing the flowers. Where's he's very, very happy.

[Chris Hansbrough]

Ferdinand as in the chef at the Themysciran embassy .. he was cool

I'm hoping that greg is writing the Blackest Night WW series and that he shows up there again. Honestly he was my favorite character in that run.

[Lester C.]

Ferdinand as in the chef at the Themysciran embassy .. he was cool
In with Rucka out with Rucka. Happens a lot with him. One of the drawbacks of creating characters no one else wants to play with.

[Constantine Drakon]

Best Wonder Woman supporting character since Artemis. I'm befuddled as to why he hasn't appeared since Rucka. I suppose there's a little overlap with the Gorillas, but... they're Gorillas from a Flash villain's city. Ferdinand's a minotaur (or close, anyway). He's much more uniquely "Wonder Woman" than they are.

[Chris Hansbrough]

Best Wonder Woman supporting character since Artemis. I'm befuddled as to why he hasn't appeared since Rucka.

in many ways he's ruckas baby. I want a Ferdinand mini from Greg as I own 2 Origina art scenes. I own the whole GA/Deadshot fight, Chili eating from The Deadshot Miniseries and I own the scene with the bird (People should know what I am talking about as it was stunningly beautiful) From Wonder WOman with Ferdinand...

[Constantine Drakon]

in many ways he's ruckas baby.

That seems like a very backwards way to write serial fiction. A previous writer came up with something really good... so we'd better not use it?

[Aspield]

Ferdinand was hot.

I suppose he's still making vegetarian dishes for his adoring fans.

[thehod]

Doesn't he play for Manchester United?

[stealthwise]

He's out sniffing the flowers. Where's he's very, very happy.

Post of the Motherfucking Year! I love that book, Kaylee and I read it all the time.

[40footwolf]

Got a message in the mail,
Ferdinand was thrown in jail.
I left the snow with Abigail,
Went on down to fix his bail.
They had him locked in a gunny sack,
His hands were tied behind his back.
He claimed he was a Doukhobor
But they never heard of that in Baltimore.
The police said he'd better go home,
And he went back alone,
Back to the snow.

[buttler]

I'm hoping that greg is writing the Blackest Night WW series and that he shows up there again. Honestly he was my favorite character in that run.

Wow, I think Blackest Night is the last place I'd want to see Ferdinand. I like him un-zombified.

[BnL]

Best Wonder Woman supporting character since Artemis. I'm befuddled as to why he hasn't appeared since Rucka. I suppose there's a little overlap with the Gorillas, but... they're Gorillas from a Flash villain's city. Ferdinand's a minotaur (or close, anyway). He's much more uniquely "Wonder Woman" than they are.

Rucka doesn't want other writers to use him. Same with Veronica Cale. That's why Gail hasn't used them.

[Constantine Drakon]

Rucka doesn't want other writers to use him. Same with Veronica Cale. That's why Gail hasn't used them.

I'd heard that was the case with Cale, but not with Ferdinand. If that's true, my respect for Rucka has just been greatly diminished. He kicked off his run killing Dome and Sebastian Ballesteros, favorite characters of his predecessors - he's in no position to say "don't touch my babies." And even if he was, I don't see it being in the best interest of Wonder Woman, as a franchise, for him to write the book for years, then try to ban anyone else from using the best of the things he added to the book.

If it's simply that he has plans for Cale elsewhere, well, I can respect that, although I wish he could let her appear in WW. But if he made a request for Ferdinand too, then frankly I have to wonder how much he really cared about Wonder Woman, because that certainly wouldn't be considering what's best for the franchise.

[Gail Simone]

Best Wonder Woman supporting character since Artemis. I'm befuddled as to why he hasn't appeared since Rucka. I suppose there's a little overlap with the Gorillas, but... they're Gorillas from a Flash villain's city. Ferdinand's a minotaur (or close, anyway). He's much more uniquely "Wonder Woman" than they are.

Greg has said he'd be happy to have me add Ferdinand to the current cast, but I have to say, that's a character that I feel is uniquely Greg's. Plus, with the Gorillas, it might be animal mascot overkill at this point.

[Gail Simone]

I'd heard that was the case with Cale, but not with Ferdinand. If that's true, my respect for Rucka has just been greatly diminished. He kicked off his run killing Dome and Sebastian Ballesteros, favorite characters of his predecessors - he's in no position to say "don't touch my babies." And even if he was, I don't see it being in the best interest of Wonder Woman, as a franchise, for him to write the book for years, then try to ban anyone else from using the best of the things he added to the book.

If it's simply that he has plans for Cale elsewhere, well, I can respect that, although I wish he could let her appear in WW. But if he made a request for Ferdinand too, then frankly I have to wonder how much he really cared about Wonder Woman, because that certainly wouldn't be considering what's best for the franchise.

Greg wasn't comfortable with me using Veronica Cale. But he was absolutely fine with me using Ferdinand. I suspect he is using Cale elsewhere, or maybe didn't think she'd fit the tone of the current run. Don't know. But if an author asks me not to use a character, I don't use that character.

[ScottyQuick]

Greg wasn't comfortable with me using Veronica Cale. But he was absolutely fine with me using Ferdinand. I suspect he is using Cale elsewhere, or maybe didn't think she'd fit the tone of the current run. Don't know. But if an author asks me not to use a character, I don't use that character.

Well, to be fair, she doesn't. She was an enemy of the Madame Ambassador, not Wonder Woman.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'd heard that was the case with Cale, but not with Ferdinand. If that's true, my respect for Rucka has just been greatly diminished. He kicked off his run killing Dome and Sebastian Ballesteros, favorite characters of his predecessors - he's in no position to say "don't touch my babies." And even if he was, I don't see it being in the best interest of Wonder Woman, as a franchise, for him to write the book for years, then try to ban anyone else from using the best of the things he added to the book.

If it's simply that he has plans for Cale elsewhere, well, I can respect that, although I wish he could let her appear in WW. But if he made a request for Ferdinand too, then frankly I have to wonder how much he really cared about Wonder Woman, because that certainly wouldn't be considering what's best for the franchise.

DC has moved away from that run...and well...Rucka's work on Wonder Woman was something I loved each month. I was pulling that book for the greatness it had. It all clicked...the supporting cast , Wonder Woman's job she had...and the rogues.

Its a shame DC moved the character away. The OYL reboot turned me off from the character after 2-3 issues. :frown:

[Gail Simone]

Not to argue merit, but the ambassadorship sold only okay (except for the big tie-in issues), while the reboot sold like CRAZY. The sales dropped mostly every issue since no matter who wrote the book (which suggests to me that Wonder Woman has a level of sales that it tends to gravitate towards), but those first reboot issues were hugely successful by any standard.

So for a business, I get it. But as a writer, it's unfortunate. I liked a lot of that stuff myself, particularly the gods.

[stealthwise]

I always wonder about stuff like reboots/variant covers/event tie-ins that sell like crazy at first, then plummet soon afterwards (WW, Flash, etc). It seems like the whole point of the current Big Two marketing strategies is to entice retailers to purchase a ton of copies for their stores, only to have said retailers basically eat the cost of over-ordering, which causes them to be much more cautious in the future. Look at Countdown, which both fed off of the goodwill created by 52 and then proceeded to screw over Trinity. I'm not a mindreader, but hyping something that turns out to be either mediocre or just plain crappy seems to turn off retailers, who are the direct-market "gateway" to the average comic reader. It seems that only in very rare cases (Marvel Zombies, for example) do you get a book that the readership demands more of and actually influences an increase of sales in.

Hell, there were 39 Marvel books last week, as most people are aware. THIRTY-NINE. Who the hell actually bought even half of those?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I always wonder about stuff like reboots/variant covers/event tie-ins that sell like crazy at first, then plummet soon afterwards (WW, Flash, etc). It seems like the whole point of the current Big Two marketing strategies is to entice retailers to purchase a ton of copies for their stores, only to have said retailers basically eat the cost of over-ordering, which causes them to be much more cautious in the future. Look at Countdown, which both fed off of the goodwill created by 52 and then proceeded to screw over Trinity. I'm not a mindreader, but hyping something that turns out to be either mediocre or just plain crappy seems to turn off retailers, who are the direct-market "gateway" to the average comic reader. It seems that only in very rare cases (Marvel Zombies, for example) do you get a book that the readership demands more of and actually influences an increase of sales in.

Hell, there were 39 Marvel books last week, as most people are aware. THIRTY-NINE. Who the hell actually bought even half of those?

Well one guy on the Marvel board claims he bought 28 books from Marvel I believe. I don't even go above 20 monthlies now.

[Fangirl (with Kung Fu Grip)]

Greg has said he'd be happy to have me add Ferdinand to the current cast, but I have to say, that's a character that I feel is uniquely Greg's.

Dear Gail,
I'm very sorry to hear that. It's really very depressing news, to me.

I'm very new to comics compared to most people here, especially DC. I picked up the occasional New Mutants, X-Men, Batman, or ALF at the grocery store growing up, but that was about it. I ended up becoming a manga geek, eventually. It wasn't until the Justice League cartoon show that I started to get interested in DC books. While the characters in the books were different from what I had seen on TV, I still enjoyed them very much. Greg Rucka made Wonder Woman into my favorite DC character. I read other books too, including Birds of Prey, but for me the book that mattered most was Wonder Woman.

Since Greg left I've seen the fascinating and dynamic gods I'd come to love shuffled away then replaced with versions of the gods that I honestly don't care about. The Greek-styled democracy I loved has been replaced with a Monarchy, with the Amazons ruled a baby-obsessed queen I only really know from Wikipedia and Amazons Attack. The Amazons have gone from being a fascinating mix of Classical culture and high technology to being capable of primitive gunpowder weapons at most. Ambassador Diana of Themyscira and her staff have been replaced with Agent Diana Prince and her co-workers. Veronica Cale gave up on being a respected business woman waging a secret war on Wonder Woman, and is now off running an evil think tank or something. The Amazons are now child-murderers. For me, personally, it feels like almost everything good that Greg built up has been torn down and/or cut out of the book. Seeing years of good hard work being discarded like this has left me disillusioned about Western comics and has pretty much turned me off mainstream comics. If my favorite supporting-cast member is doomed to comic book oblivion because his creator wrote him too well... well I don't want to be more overdramatic than I'm already being, so I'll just say I'm very upset to hear that's the plan.

I don't want to make it sound like I'm ungrateful, and I don't want you to think I haven't enjoyed your run too. I'm not an airhead that keeps buying things out of backwards brand loyalty. I would have stopped buying if I'd stopped enjoying the book. And I can understand what you mean when you say he was "uniquely Greg's." But from what I've read online and in trades, Artemis was once "uniquely Messner-Loebs'," Bane was once "uniquely Chuck Dickens'," and Wonder Girl was once "uniquely John Byrne's". I understand your reluctance, as a writer, to work with a character you consider to be especially linked to another writer. But as a reader I'm just sad because it feels like almost everything I really loved about Greg's work on the book is gone for good (usually it's been because his work didn't get enough respect, and now it's because his work is being given so much respect).

I know I'm just one of the 33,000+ people that have been buying Wonder Woman these past few months, and you're the busy paid professional that doesn't even have to read this, much less think about it. But I do hope you reconsider bringing back Ferdinand. This fangirl could use some cheering up.

Thank you for your time.

Mary

[Gail Simone]

Dear Gail,
I'm very sorry to hear that. It's really very depressing news, to me.

I'm very new to comics compared to most people here, especially DC. I picked up the occasional New Mutants, X-Men, Batman, or ALF at the grocery store growing up, but that was about it. I ended up becoming a manga geek, eventually. It wasn't until the Justice League cartoon show that I started to get interested in DC books. While the characters in the books were different from what I had seen on TV, I still enjoyed them very much. Greg Rucka made Wonder Woman into my favorite DC character. I read other books too, including Birds of Prey, but for me the book that mattered most was Wonder Woman.

Since Greg left I've seen the fascinating and dynamic gods I'd come to love shuffled away then replaced with versions of the gods that I honestly don't care about. The Greek-styled democracy I loved has been replaced with a Monarchy, with the Amazons ruled a baby-obsessed queen I only really know from Wikipedia and Amazons Attack. The Amazons have gone from being a fascinating mix of Classical culture and high technology to being capable of primitive gunpowder weapons at most. Ambassador Diana of Themyscira and her staff have been replaced with Agent Diana Prince and her co-workers. Veronica Cale gave up on being a respected business woman waging a secret war on Wonder Woman, and is now off running an evil think tank or something. The Amazons are now child-murderers. For me, personally, it feels like almost everything good that Greg built up has been torn down and/or cut out of the book. Seeing years of good hard work being discarded like this has left me disillusioned about Western comics and has pretty much turned me off mainstream comics. If my favorite supporting-cast member is doomed to comic book oblivion because his creator wrote him too well... well I don't want to be more overdramatic than I'm already being, so I'll just say I'm very upset to hear that's the plan.

I don't want to make it sound like I'm ungrateful, and I don't want you to think I haven't enjoyed your run too. I'm not an airhead that keeps buying things out of backwards brand loyalty. I would have stopped buying if I'd stopped enjoying the book. And I can understand what you mean when you say he was "uniquely Greg's." But from what I've read online and in trades, Artemis was once "uniquely Messner-Loebs'," Bane was once "uniquely Chuck Dickens'," and Wonder Girl was once "uniquely John Byrne's". I understand your reluctance, as a writer, to work with a character you consider to be especially linked to another writer. But as a reader I'm just sad because it feels like almost everything I really loved about Greg's work on the book is gone for good (usually it's been because his work didn't get enough respect, and now it's because his work is being given so much respect).

I know I'm just one of the 33,000+ people that have been buying Wonder Woman these past few months, and you're the busy paid professional that doesn't even have to read this, much less think about it. But I do hope you reconsider bringing back Ferdinand. This fangirl could use some cheering up.

Thank you for your time.

Mary


I like the idea of "Chuck Dickens!" :)

It's actually Chuck DIXON, fangirl...I'm not making fun, I just think that sounds cool. Chuck DICKENS!

I disagree about a few of your claims, here. The Amazon tech hasn't changed, we just haven't shown a lot of it. And I still believe they would fight with swords, if given the choice. Samurai would much rather fight with swords, and adopting modern weaponry helped end their entire tradition. The Amazons are insular. Their swords have meaning to them.

A lot of this other stuff was changed before I came aboard, and my writing philosophy in serial, shared universes is not to negate. I did try to bring Veronica aboard, but as I said above, Greg was uncomfortable with that. Since the ambassadorship and the gods had already been removed or altered, those were not really options to bring into this run.

I like Ferdinand, but I really don't see where he goes at this point, and I do feel the character is very much Greg's. It seems to me that he really only has a couple places where he could fit, one being Diana's home (which is crowded already), and the other being the DMA (which is suspicious in general of metahumans and non-humans). That limits the options pretty seriously.

But I'm still thinking about it.

The thing about these books is that we can't really turn back the clock, and when we do, it always feels a bit like cheating to me. I say enjoy the history, build on the history, but don't try to re-CREATE the history.

Hope that makes sense.

[K-DoG7p7]

Chuck Dickens is Chuck Dixons British cousin

[K-DoG7p7]

, and the other being the DMA (which is suspicious in general of metahumans and non-humans).

I don't get that.. given that the average joe in the DCU have no ill feelings towards Metahumans and Non-humans.. would it not be better if the DMA had a lot more on staff?

[Gail Simone]

I don't get that.. given that the average joe in the DCU have no ill feelings towards Metahumans and Non-humans.. would it not be better if the DMA had a lot more on staff?

Huh?

Do you know what their mission is?

[K-DoG7p7]

Huh?

Do you know what their mission is?

bearly ..
..
anyway..
Ferdinand should work the DMA cafeteria..

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I wanna say this and its not a problem with Gail's run , Rucka's or John Byrne's run of Wonder Woman. Its an overall problem that started soon after George Perez left the book in 1992. And I'm sure some may...or may not agree with me.

The supporting cast by each writer keeps changing . And this is a fault thats really hurt the flow of the character I feel. Each time a new creative team comes on , they junk the supporting cast the last writer had. And its really hard to develope a good supporting cast and get fans to care for them.

Because within 30 issues , their gone. They are outta the book and Diana's life . The next team comes on and it changes again....and so on. Byrne junked Boston for Gateway City ...and had Cassie and Julie as supporting cast with Gateway cop Mike Shorr. Within a few issues of Byrne's run ended....Shorr and Gateway City was never saw again. No mention of the character for years.

I get Diana is the star of the book. But its the whole junking of each cast behind her with each revamp and change the book goes thru that should by now tell DC.... junking everything and doing a new setup rarely works for the character and is pretty tiring.

And hell...once Gail is gone , the next writer will likely step in....revamp the book again and we get yet another supporting cast.


Its hard to believe how many revamps , changes in cast Wonder Woman has had over the years.

[Constantine Drakon]

Greg wasn't comfortable with me using Veronica Cale. But he was absolutely fine with me using Ferdinand. I suspect he is using Cale elsewhere, or maybe didn't think she'd fit the tone of the current run. Don't know. But if an author asks me not to use a character, I don't use that character.

I don't think anyone would expect you to. As I said, if it's just Cale, because he has plans for her, I'm sad we won't have her in WW but I can understand it. No disrespect meant.

Very sad to hear a return of Ferdinand isn't in the cards. I loved that guy, and he really suited the "flavor" of Wonder Woman's mythos.

Huh?

Do you know what their mission is?

They're a branch of the DEO, I think? And the DEO's mission is... er... to watch superhuman activity or something. Director Bones is in charge?

Am I missing anything?

I wanna say this and its not a problem with Gail's run , Rucka's or John Byrne's run of Wonder Woman. Its an overall problem that started soon after George Perez left the book in 1992. And I'm sure some may...or may not agree with me.

The supporting cast by each writer keeps changing . And this is a fault thats really hurt the flow of the character I feel. Each time a new creative team comes on , they junk the supporting cast the last writer had. And its really hard to develope a good supporting cast and get fans to care for them.. ...

I agree. It happens to an extent with all the major characters in the comics, everyone wants to bring in their own new characters to Batman, Superman, etc.

But it feels like Wonder Woman has an especially hard time building up a supporting cast that sticks. The last new addition that seems to have clicked is Artemis (although I was very optimistic about Ferdinand). The revamp on Etta's fantastic, though, and I hope she sticks around longer this time.

[Tyr]

It seems to me that he really only has a couple places where he could fit, one being Diana's home (which is crowded already), and the other being the DMA (which is suspicious in general of metahumans and non-humans). That limits the options pretty seriously.

hmmm I see your point

Thing here is that Ferdinand worked as a chef at an embassy, a very big mansion house thing with lots a rooms. Diana lives in a small two story apartment, there isn't a whole lot of room for an 8 foot tall minotaur in a two story one bedroom apartment. Especially when its packed with 400 pound gorilla knights.

Furthermore I think the knights and Ferdninand would be a bad fit. The g-knights are messy, tend to break things, and are constantly raiding the fridge. As a cullinary master chef I think that sort of thing wouldn't be appreciatted by Fredinand. Diana may tolerate that kind of behavior in her home, but I don't Ferdinand would feel the same way.

That said I still want him back.


The thing about these books is that we can't really turn back the clock, and when we do, it always feels a bit like cheating to me. I say enjoy the history, build on the history, but don't try to re-CREATE the history.

Hope that makes sense.

But we can still bring back Steven Rogers from the dead, even though its only been a couple of years.

bearly ..
..
anyway..
Ferdinand should work the DMA cafeteria..

By the gods man, have you lost it?! Do you really want to see Ferdinand serving up cream of corn? CREAM OF FRIGGIN CORN!?

Whats next? Barbra Gordon working at a Borders?

Alfred taking a job as a janitor?

Deadpool working mall security?

[NickThompson]

Hell, there were 39 Marvel books last week, as most people are aware. THIRTY-NINE. Who the hell actually bought even half of those?
I was over 10 or so, most of my favourite books came out in there :smile:

[RachelEvil]

Deadpool working mall security?

I would read that every month.

[Gail Simone]

I wanna say this and its not a problem with Gail's run , Rucka's or John Byrne's run of Wonder Woman. Its an overall problem that started soon after George Perez left the book in 1992. And I'm sure some may...or may not agree with me.

The supporting cast by each writer keeps changing . And this is a fault thats really hurt the flow of the character I feel. Each time a new creative team comes on , they junk the supporting cast the last writer had. And its really hard to develope a good supporting cast and get fans to care for them.

Because within 30 issues , their gone. They are outta the book and Diana's life . The next team comes on and it changes again....and so on. Byrne junked Boston for Gateway City ...and had Cassie and Julie as supporting cast with Gateway cop Mike Shorr. Within a few issues of Byrne's run ended....Shorr and Gateway City was never saw again. No mention of the character for years.

I get Diana is the star of the book. But its the whole junking of each cast behind her with each revamp and change the book goes thru that should by now tell DC.... junking everything and doing a new setup rarely works for the character and is pretty tiring.

And hell...once Gail is gone , the next writer will likely step in....revamp the book again and we get yet another supporting cast.


Its hard to believe how many revamps , changes in cast Wonder Woman has had over the years.


I didn't junk ANYONE, and in fact, have brought back several classic characters from her essential supporting cast.

So, I kinda reject this charge, in my case. My run is about integration, not negation.

[Cam63]

I didn't junk ANYONE, and in fact, have brought back several classic characters from her essential supporting cast.

So, I kinda reject this charge, in my case. My run is about integration, not negation.

I thought you had to aaa-ccentuate the positive,
Eee-liminate the negative

Latch onnn to the affirmative
and don't mess with Mista Inbetween



...'Course, it could just be an old song an' dance.

[Alex L]

Deadpool working mall security?

YES.

Though my first real exposure to Deadpool was Chris Priest's wacky run, not Kelly's tortured-soul Wade.

[OzBat!]

As part of this whole "not an amazon" thingie and leaving everything behind, I'm kinda hoping Wondy does a hard travelling heroes pilgrimage back through all the locations she's been based at over the past few years, and catch up on folks.

[buttler]

As part of this whole "not an amazon" thingie and leaving everything behind, I'm kinda hoping Wondy does a hard travelling heroes pilgrimage back through all the locations she's been based at over the past few years, and catch up on folks.

How are Mer-Boy and Bird-Boy doing, anyway?

[Tyr]

I would read that every month.

Actually Now that I think about it that would make for a fun story for an already fun comic....

EVERYONE HERE SHOULD BUY DEADPOOL!

BUY IT NOW DAMMIT!

[Cam63]

It sounds unhygenic if you ask me.

[OzBat!]

How are Mer-Boy and Bird-Boy doing, anyway?I think our definitions of "last few years" are just a tadge out of alignment.

[Night Swordsman]

I like the idea of "Chuck Dickens!" :)

It's actually Chuck DIXON, fangirl...I'm not making fun, I just think that sounds cool. Chuck DICKENS!

I disagree about a few of your claims, here. The Amazon tech hasn't changed, we just haven't shown a lot of it. And I still believe they would fight with swords, if given the choice. Samurai would much rather fight with swords, and adopting modern weaponry helped end their entire tradition. The Amazons are insular. Their swords have meaning to them.

A lot of this other stuff was changed before I came aboard, and my writing philosophy in serial, shared universes is not to negate. I did try to bring Veronica aboard, but as I said above, Greg was uncomfortable with that. Since the ambassadorship and the gods had already been removed or altered, those were not really options to bring into this run.

I like Ferdinand, but I really don't see where he goes at this point, and I do feel the character is very much Greg's. It seems to me that he really only has a couple places where he could fit, one being Diana's home (which is crowded already), and the other being the DMA (which is suspicious in general of metahumans and non-humans). That limits the options pretty seriously.

But I'm still thinking about it.

The thing about these books is that we can't really turn back the clock, and when we do, it always feels a bit like cheating to me. I say enjoy the history, build on the history, but don't try to re-CREATE the history.

Hope that makes sense.

Normally i do not get involved in these things, but something hit me while i was reading this. It seems the situation of Ferdy(my nickname for him) is being looked at from the WRONG angle. Seems people are looking for where to include or place him.

All the while, people should be asking WHERE is he? I do believe we had TWO Crisises that occured, with major world shattering aftermath. Is he ALIVE? Safe? Captive? Incarcerated by law or military? Hiding? STILL a Minotaur(hey..anything can happen...)?
Ferdy kind of stands out. Just find it hard for him to be hidden from everyone.

And...instead of incorperating him BACK into the mix, he could at least be given a drop in and see from Diana. IRL, that is what friends DO when they can.

Or at least even a email or postcard...

[Typo Lad]

As part of this whole "not an amazon" thingie and leaving everything behind, I'm kinda hoping Wondy does a hard travelling heroes pilgrimage back through all the locations she's been based at over the past few years, and catch up on folks.
As much as I hate continuity pron, this could be fun, if only for the aspect of seeing all the different settings Diana was thrown in since Crisis.

[Michael P]

As much as I hate continuity pron, this could be fun, if only for the aspect of seeing all the different settings Diana was thrown in since Crisis.

It wouldn't have to be continuity porn. A good writer could easily make it about moving forward rather than looking back (ideally by having all these people be in markedly different places, psychologically, than they were when we and Diana last saw them).

[Typo Lad]

It wouldn't have to be continuity porn. A good writer could easily make it about moving forward rather than looking back (ideally by having all these people be in markedly different places, psychologically, than they were when we and Diana last saw them).
Yes but what are the odds of a good writer doing such a story?

Um, as in I don't see Gail doing it, and the only people I can imagine doing it are from the Roy Thomas school.

[Michael P]

Yes but what are the odds of a good writer doing such a story?

Well, Mike Carey kind of already did, in X-Men Legacy...

And honestly, just thinking about it, I'm kinda interested. I'd have to do it with someone besides Wonder Woman, but that's no biggie. Hell, you could even do it with a brand new character.

[Typo Lad]

What, a sort of "How Superawesomeguy changed our lives" retrospective thing?

Now that I think of it, I have a pitch like that buried somewhere.

[Michael P]

What, a sort of "How Superawesomeguy changed our lives" retrospective thing?

Now that I think of it, I have a pitch like that buried somewhere.

More like "All these people whose lives I've affected have moved on and grown as people, and here I am running in place."

[Typo Lad]

Okay, I'd buy that.

So start writing!

[Chiroptera]

I wanna say this and its not a problem with Gail's run , Rucka's or John Byrne's run of Wonder Woman. Its an overall problem that started soon after George Perez left the book in 1992. And I'm sure some may...or may not agree with me.

The supporting cast by each writer keeps changing . And this is a fault thats really hurt the flow of the character I feel. Each time a new creative team comes on , they junk the supporting cast the last writer had. And its really hard to develope a good supporting cast and get fans to care for them.

Because within 30 issues , their gone. They are outta the book and Diana's life . The next team comes on and it changes again....and so on. Byrne junked Boston for Gateway City ...and had Cassie and Julie as supporting cast with Gateway cop Mike Shorr. Within a few issues of Byrne's run ended....Shorr and Gateway City was never saw again. No mention of the character for years.

I get Diana is the star of the book. But its the whole junking of each cast behind her with each revamp and change the book goes thru that should by now tell DC.... junking everything and doing a new setup rarely works for the character and is pretty tiring.

And hell...once Gail is gone , the next writer will likely step in....revamp the book again and we get yet another supporting cast.


Its hard to believe how many revamps , changes in cast Wonder Woman has had over the years.


This is so very, very true, and it is quite unfortunate.

While it's true every new writing team brings with them their own characters, Batman and Superman don't suffer from it the way Wonder Woman does.

Batman will always have Robin, Alfred, Joker, and Catwoman. Even if other cast mates and villains change we still seed these characters fairly regularly in Batman comics.

Superman always has Lois, Jimmy, Perry, his mom (and sometimes his dad depending on continuity! :tongue: ) Supergirl and Lex Luthor. Once again, even if other friends and villains change with the development team this cast of characters always remains.


Diana doesn't have this luxury. No one ever seems to keep characters around for her. She really needs to have some permanent casting partners set into her comic, people she can interact with regularly and who WON'T change when a new creative team jumps on the series. Sadly... I doubt we're ever going to see that happen unless we get a writer who can be on the series for something like 40-50 issues who can firmly establish characters as part of Diana's life.

[Flying Saucers Over Oz]

Gail's brought back Etta, seems to be working on how to keep Nemesis, and has had cameos by a few other characters.

My favorite Ferdy fantasy is Diana, either at work or at home, watching Ferdinand preparing a delicious, elaborate dish on his successful, top-rated cooking show on The Food Network while she sits at a plastic table or TV tray and resignedly digs into her reheated Stouffer's Vegetarian Lasagna...

[Evil Eleanor]

Greg has said he'd be happy to have me add Ferdinand to the current cast, but I have to say, that's a character that I feel is uniquely Greg's. Plus, with the Gorillas, it might be animal mascot overkill at this point.


...Gosh. To be honest, that kinda makes me resent the Gorillas just a little bit. Just a smidge, but still there, you know? I loved Ferdinand to pieces. Even if there's no room for him in the book right now, I hope there's a place for him again, down the line. He really is the sort of supporting cast member that fits Wonder Woman perfectly, and wouldn't work as well in any other book.


I didn't junk ANYONE, and in fact, have brought back several classic characters from her essential supporting cast.

So, I kinda reject this charge, in my case. My run is about integration, not negation.

That's true, but the things you built on are mostly Wonder Woman OYL and Amazons Attack. The stuff that Jimenez and Rucka built up, meanwhile, was torn down (very abruptly, in my eyes at least) by your predecessors. I do kinda feel like a lot of good things were abandoned just for the sake of a title-reboot. I suppose you're kind of in a no-win situation, since you didn't want to abruptly change the status quo again, and you have to listen to editorial too. You can't easily please the OYL fans while pleasing the people that hated what happened OYL.

I see what you're getting at that you don't want to try to repeat what past writers did, but, uh, I don't think it's necessarily trying to repeat what they did if you work with some of their good ideas, like Ferdinand or the Embassy. When Rucka was working with the Embassy there were a couple of times when I said to myself "wow, I love Wonder Woman the Ambassador, I love the Embassy, I love a couple of the people working there, but it'd be nice to have a different writer flesh out and add to the staff when Rucka leaves." Not everyone working there clicked with me, and I was hoping to see it develop in the hands of other writers. The Embassy seemed like a wonderful setting as well as a perfect evolution of what had come before. Seeing it abandoned (apparently for good) still leaves me shattered when I think about it. A repugnant waste of a brilliant idea that I was hoping to see future writers build on. Just like the gods, now that I think of it.



Superman always has Lois, Jimmy, Perry, his mom (and sometimes his dad depending on continuity! :tongue: ) Supergirl and Lex Luthor. Once again, even if other friends and villains change with the development team this cast of characters always remains.


Diana doesn't have this luxury. No one ever seems to keep characters around for her. She really needs to have some permanent casting partners set into her comic, people she can interact with regularly and who WON'T change when a new creative team jumps on the series. Sadly... I doubt we're ever going to see that happen unless we get a writer who can be on the series for something like 40-50 issues who can firmly establish characters as part of Diana's life.

I think you're being a little harsh on the cast. We have Hippolyta, Phillipus, Artemis, Donna, Cassie, and now Etta. But yeah, I agree that we're lagging behind many other characters. I think part of it is the way her supporting cast shrank in the Silver Age, to make Steve Trevor her entire life (marrying him off was a brilliant move on Perez's part. I kind of like him, but the romance had come to dominate Wonder Woman's character too often). And part of it is the disjointed way Wonder Woman's story has been told from the Bronze Age onward. In terms of characters that seem to last and even appear in other media, the Batman books have grown to include Alfred, 5 Robins, 2 Batgirls, Leslie Thompkins, Lucius Fox, Huntress, Gordon, Bullock, Renee Montoya, the GCPD, and lots more. Wonder Woman's not doing as well.

But with Etta and Steve already reincorporated, and good characters like Ferdinand, Io, and Nu'Bia waiting their turn to return, I'm optimistic.

[worstblogever]

What happened to Ferdinand?

http://www.alwayshungryny.com/images/content/FreeBeef__PackageupClose_v1_2_-_Version_2_thumb.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KgalykfKA6Q/ScuSNXR0tGI/AAAAAAAABw8/v7ZaNQ9beRo/s320/Beef.jpg

[LewisH]

http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=494&size=550x550_mb&ptp_photo_id=1329053

It was either this or join the Teen Titans, probably the same difference in the long run.

[Michael P]

That's true, but the things you built on are mostly Wonder Woman OYL and Amazons Attack. The stuff that Jimenez and Rucka built up, meanwhile, was torn down (very abruptly, in my eyes at least) by your predecessors.

Well, gee, that second sentence sorta explains the first, don't it?

[Constantine Drakon]

Well, gee, that second sentence sorta explains the first, don't it?

I think it's more that building on the 12 issues by Rucka/Pfeifer/Piccoult meant further alienating the people pissed at the way the previous writers' work was discarded rather brusquely. I'm definitely among those that wanted the Amazons/Embassy back and the DMA nuked ASAP. But I agree that coming onto the book when she did was something of a no-win situation for Gail.

[ScottyQuick]

It's like ... they picked the absolute best writer possible for the job, and gave her the absolute worst position to start in.

[Michael P]

If you care more about the window dressings than the story being told, yes, I can see that.

[Constantine Drakon]

If you care more about the window dressings than the story being told, yes, I can see that.

I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye here, since I don't believe a fairly thorough elimination of supporting cast members and an extreme shift in setting falls under simply "changing the window dressings".

[ScottyQuick]

If you care more about the window dressings than the story being told, yes, I can see that.

So let's ditch Lois, Perry and Jimmy and bring in MY brilliant ideas: Jumpy, a quirky young frog, XxBadAzzxX(the X's are silent), a superstrong invincible alien responsible for Superman having superpowers(and Clark worships the ground he hovers over), and Lumpy, a small plucky girl.

[BnL]

So let's ditch Lois, Perry and Jimmy and bring in MY brilliant ideas: Jumpy, a quirky young frog, XxBadAzzxX(the X's are silent), a superstrong invincible alien responsible for Superman having superpowers(and Clark worships the ground he hovers over), and Lumpy, a small plucky girl.

Don't forget the part where he quits his job at the Daily Planet to begin a career as a hot air balloon operator. :wink:

[ScottyQuick]

Don't forget the part where he quits his job at the Daily Planet to begin a career as a hot air balloon operator. :wink:

In Australia!

... you know, our comic actually sounds pretty awesome.

[Evil Eleanor]

That's because all those things sound better than "Wonder Woman gets an incredibly transparent secret identity as a superspy working for Sarge Steel".

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

You mean he didn't end with a wink?

[Larry Dixon]

...Diana, either at work or at home, watching Ferdinand preparing a delicious, elaborate dish on his successful, top-rated cooking show on The Food Network while she sits at a plastic table or TV tray and resignedly digs into her reheated Stouffer's Vegetarian Lasagna...

That's a good scene. :)

Why not have DINNER AND A MOVIE with superheroes, or some other Food Network show, where you get heroes dropping in or appearing for charity, and Ferd is the chef.

This could go awful places, though.

IRON CHEF! "Aw no. Dammit Girder, not REALLY iron...!"

----

And yeah, Deadpool: Mall Cop sounds great too.