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View Full Version : Final Crisis after the Hardcover: Verdict?



jgiannantoni05
06-23-2009, 07:47 PM
I'm kinda surprised there aren't more threads analyzing Final Crisis after the hardcover.

Did you like Final Crisis (maybe more or less after hardcover)?

If you liked FC, why?

64 million dollar question: What do you think FC is really about at deeper levels? What was Morrison driving at?
________
COLORADO MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES (http://colorado.dispensaries.org/)

Retro315
06-23-2009, 07:53 PM
The nature of stories!

NickFury90
06-23-2009, 08:07 PM
I just read the FC Hardcover today. I actually really enjoyed it. For the most part, the main story was pretty straight forward to be honest. It was Superman Beyond that threw me for a loop the first time, although I got the gist of it(Mandrakk went insane, had Superman Bot built when he goes crazy, etc). It was like 6-issues compressed into 2, which I always love, it was just a lotta information to take in at once. I know that part will be better on a re-read. The story is super ****ing epic, although I don't think its gonna shoot up to the top of my favorite Morrison works(JLA, New X-men, We3, All-Star Superman, Batman). Its around the Top 10 though, bringing up the rear right above Marvel Boy(which I LOVED on a re-read recently).

Also, its definitely about the power of stories. I felt the Monitors were like the writers/editors, who felt that the multiverse couldn't work in the DCU. Mandrakk was the ultimate evil, with Superman being the ultimate good, the first and the best created to destroy the antagonists. Whee metafiction commentary!

Plus, its completely gorgeous and full of badass scenes. My favorite was the showdown between Batman and Darkseid. Batman was brought into life by some evil punk with a gun, now Batman is brought out of life by using a gun against the God of all evil. Awesomely, awesome scene.

paulski
06-23-2009, 08:18 PM
I figure I dropped enough money on the mini (which reaaaaalllly disappointed me) that, unlike Identity and Infinite, I won't pick up the HC for this one. :frown:

FanboyStranger
06-23-2009, 08:31 PM
I still grade it a B-. I will admit to having enjoyed more in collected form, but I still feel that pacing was all over the place. (The first two issues are fairly standard for a modern comic, but then things hit a breakneck pace that gets quicker as the series unfolds. I guess Morrison would like fans to attribute this to the race between the Flashes and the Black Racer, but the 'channel surfing' effect, as he refers to it, does not make for engrossing storytelling, in my opinion.) The inclusion of Superman Beyond was an absolute necessity, and I'm glad they saw the light on that.

NickFury90
06-23-2009, 08:34 PM
I'm also glad its not in 3d. Otherwise, it would end up like this Last Son HC I have, with this big ugly cardboard thing sticking out the middle, and the 3d wasn't that great anyway.

KandouErik
06-24-2009, 02:18 AM
It was great - though the final issue still was a mind bender to wrap my head around.

In a freak surprise - I understood everything in the Superman Beyond issues, something I didn't get when I originally read them.


Only problem I have is the darn colorist again. Mr. Miracle is Black - but now Sunny Sumo is too in one panel. Can't they get their colors straight?

dumbstruck
06-24-2009, 05:34 AM
I'm kinda surprised there aren't more threads analyzing Final Crisis after the hardcover.

Did you like Final Crisis (maybe more or less after hardcover)?

If you liked FC, why?

64 million dollar question: What do you think FC is really about at deeper levels? What was Morrison driving at?


How many threads do you need? Either way, FC was the worst piece of drivel I've ever read in 20+ years of reading comics.

Super Buddies Forever
06-24-2009, 05:50 AM
It's still the same. It's a series with a lot of great ideas but horrible presentation. It's easier to follow in one sitting, but it's not a story I'll be reaching for at any point in the near future.

Now that I've been able to digest the whole thing, I think my biggest gripe is that it gets so wrapped up in its high-minded concepts that it forgets to be enjoyable. That's probably a result of the "channel-zapping" technique, since the whole thing feels like bullet points in a story outline.

Immortal
06-24-2009, 05:52 AM
I thought everything about the Final Crisis trade was done remarkably. The description of the story on the back cover is of such epic proportions, it alone is worth having.
Since Final Crisis is a density of information and non-linear story telling, it definitely reads much more smoothly when you can read issue after issue continuously; without a month in between.
The theme of Final Crisis, I believe, is what Morrison conceptualized in his run on Animal Man, but to a much more extreme degree.

The Final Crisis HC is, without a doubt, one of my favorite items on the shelf.

NickFury90
06-24-2009, 07:54 AM
Another thing I really love is that it didn't end with another "punch the enemy in the face until he gives up" like so many other "epic" events. If another Marvel event ends with a giant brawl in NYC, I swear I'm gonna go punch somebody myself.

numberONE
06-24-2009, 12:36 PM
I didn't read the series when it was coming out, so when I read the hardcover last week, it was the first time for me. I found it really confusing and Superman Beyond stories just distracted from the main plot.

I think I'll give it a re-read. It might make more sense than. One thing that could have improved the story greatly, for me, would have been Batman actually killing Darksied! Or at least shooting him and wounding him bad enough that Superman could take him out.

Also, I think a few more issues would have improved the story.

The is book it's self is beautiful. One of the nicest looking graphic novels I've seen!

NickFury90
06-24-2009, 01:17 PM
The way I see, Batman's shot was what weakened him enough so that the Flashes could lead Death to Darkseid. Darkseid realized that if he died, the whole world would go down with him, and thats why everybody got teleported off, Wonder Woman used her lasso, Superman sings etc etc.

Who knew it would take so much effort to take down the God of evil?

bongoes
06-24-2009, 01:22 PM
I didn't read the series when it was coming out, so when I read the hardcover last week, it was the first time for me. I found it really confusing and Superman Beyond stories just distracted from the main plot.


Superman Beyond is very important to the story especially issue 7.

I'm not sure if I'll get the HC. I really enjoyed Final Crisis but I'm not sure if I feel like buying it right now when there's so many other comics I'm getting and I can always read it in the individual issues.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-24-2009, 07:08 PM
How many threads do you need? Either way, FC was the worst piece of drivel I've ever read in 20+ years of reading comics.

What books have you been reading?

If Final Crisis is the worst piece of drivel you've ever read, your collection must shine with the power of the sun for being so good.

T Hedge Coke
06-24-2009, 07:15 PM
One thing that could have improved the story greatly, for me, would have been Batman actually killing Darksied! Or at least shooting him and wounding him bad enough that Superman could take him out.

Because killing an old man is a totally heroic thing to do. Especially for Superman. Batman killing, would have just been too sweet of icing in that cake.

Kiryu
06-24-2009, 07:43 PM
Because killing an old man is a totally heroic thing to do. Especially for Superman. Batman killing, would have just been too sweet of icing in that cake.

I know right. Who cares if that "old man" was a point of entropy that was destroying the barrier between universes and dragging all of existence into a black hole of despair.

T Hedge Coke
06-24-2009, 08:54 PM
I know right. Who cares if that "old man" was a point of entropy that was destroying the barrier between universes and dragging all of existence into a black hole of despair.

Except that he wasn't. And they won without killing him.

Let me repeat that: they won without killing him.

People are calling for Superman (or, preferably, Batman) to murder an innocent hostage to save other lives that (because the story showed us they did) could be saved without killing Turpin.

Because killing an old man being held hostage by the New God of Evil is better than Superman singing or GL's repeating a holy oath. Presumably. And tomorrow they can kill babies infected with a plague instead of looking for a cure until they find it.

jgiannantoni05
06-24-2009, 09:28 PM
Here is what someone on Amazon said (I'm simply relaying it, because of its relevance):


"A Comic Too Smart and Introspective For The Masses"

I don't think those super-critical of Final Crisis understand what Grant Morrison tried to and (in my opinion) did accomplish. He told a multi-layered story that was a study of icons/archetypes, commentary on the dark state of superhero comics, and a message about the power of stories to inspire and bring hope. He alluded to practically every work he had done for DC (Seven Soldiers an obvious prelude, another chapter in his Superman story, a more subtle version of the meta commentary in Animal Man, etc.) He created the ultimate homage to Jack Kirby and the DC Silver Age by acknowledging the past but not holding himself back by "honoring" the characters, as well as by creating new ones (something Kirby has repeatedly said he wanted to see more of.) It ends as beautifully as it began, with a very literal deus ex machina and arguably the most powerful art form, music, vanquishing the ultimate evil. Never have I read a comic with DC characters so ambitious, and I never expect to again. Morrison refuses to pander to the fanboy masses who want something simple and easily digestable; he decides instead to make this masterpiece.

What does anyone think about this?
________
FXX (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_FXX)

numberONE
06-24-2009, 10:00 PM
Because killing an old man is a totally heroic thing to do. Especially for Superman. Batman killing, would have just been too sweet of icing in that cake.

Didn't Superman kill him when he sang, anyway?

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-24-2009, 10:03 PM
What does anyone think about this?

Personally, I don't like to use the 'you just don't like it because you didn't get it', as it feels like an insult, BUT, with Morrison, most 'critiques' on message boards do seem to come to people hating it because they didn't get it.


Didn't Superman kill him when he sang, anyway?

It wasn't a person, and it wasn't a killing - more a canceling out.

AND it was a frequency not a song.

the4thpip
06-25-2009, 02:00 AM
AND it was a frequency not a song.

So he sang that weird Lou Reed album?

Mat001
06-25-2009, 10:52 AM
No one knows what Superman sang. All that is known is that Darkseid was removed from Turpin, who is Clark's friend and broke up Darkseid's essence into the ether. And Batman fired a bullet that would've killed Darkseid anyway, had that not happened. It's poison. It kills slowly or instantly. Since neither Superman and Batman are killers, that's why it went down the way it did.

Draconomicon
06-25-2009, 02:41 PM
Here is what someone on Amazon said (I'm simply relaying it, because of its relevance):



What does anyone think about this?

Pretentious?
Morrison doesn't pander to the "fanboy masses" because the story was never written in the first place to be part of a big crossover in the crisis style, and it was a mistake to market it as such.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-25-2009, 06:55 PM
So he sang that weird Lou Reed album?

That, or Let The Sunshine in from Hair.


No one knows what Superman sang. All that is known is that Darkseid was removed from Turpin, who is Clark's friend and broke up Darkseid's essence into the ether. And Batman fired a bullet that would've killed Darkseid anyway, had that not happened. It's poison. It kills slowly or instantly. Since neither Superman and Batman are killers, that's why it went down the way it did.

Well no, we know more than that - in Superman Beyond every universe has it's own frequency - like a musical note.
Superman sang the counter note.
What that actually is, is even more irrelevant than knowing the whisper at the end of Lost In Translation.

drinkblatzbeer
06-25-2009, 07:39 PM
Have it in regular form AND still bought it...

This is gonna be something i'll sit down and read every once in a while...
great challenge, especially in the comic medium...

i think over time the impact of this story in itself will grow, unfortunately, except for the bat-books, it seems like the rest of the DCU has pushed it away...
i think i'd actually have some kind of interest in the super-books if he carried some kind of scars, or dilemma from this story...

FunkyGreenJerusalem
06-25-2009, 09:53 PM
i think over time the impact of this story in itself will grow, unfortunately, except for the bat-books, it seems like the rest of the DCU has pushed it away...
i think i'd actually have some kind of interest in the super-books if he carried some kind of scars, or dilemma from this story...

I'm surprised the 'follow on' titles have been about the characters, and not the concepts.

Like someone exploring the new access to the multiverse.

Although from what I can gather by not having read it, that's what countdown was - so I get DC not wanting to go there straight away, but done properly it would be the natural follow on.

drinkblatzbeer
06-25-2009, 10:40 PM
I'm surprised the 'follow on' titles have been about the characters, and not the concepts.


honestly, i don't think most of the creators they have on those titles could pull that off...which is also why i have been so pleased with Dance thusfar...
the work morrison did is so abstract yet linear in design (shoot me in the face for going there), one misstep and the ideas behind the concepts are blown completely apart...

i'm surprised DC did anything at all after it...

i do agree with whomever said it was marketed wrong as a "crisis" and don't think that was grant's idea or that he really cared...the only real piece that made it tie in was the multiverse...
maybe the idea of it being a "crisis" is what did it in to some fans, and something as simple as a title change would have kept people on board?

drinkblatzbeer
06-25-2009, 10:42 PM
Pretentious?


i agree completely with that, yet also find what that amazon reviewer said, to sum what should be expected to those who haven't read it yet, completely right...

NickFury90
06-26-2009, 05:14 AM
I do that Final Crisis is the culmination of all of Morrison's work.

Animal Man - Metacommentary on stories, and the importance of the DC characters

JLA - The JLA get their ass kicked but come back to defeat the big threat, fulfills Metron's prediction that they would lead the Earth into "the Fifth World".

Seven Soldiers - Either the characters show and kick ass(Frankenstein!) or its pretty much a direct sequel for that character/series(Mister Miracle).

All-Star Superman - Superman becomes more than just a man, he is seen as the God among men, the original one and the best, and he risks his life and uses fantastic deus ex machinas to save the world and the people he loves.

Batman - Batman or BatGOD, uses his THOUGHTS as weapons to defeat the clone army, gets the God Bullet from the Justice Hall(ya know, just in case), gets that weapon from the Monkey Scientist I'd assume(seen in Batman #683), and shoots the God of Evil.

And they all come together to make this big epic.

Mercurialblonde
06-26-2009, 08:00 AM
It's a really wonderful book. When I get some extra money, I'm getting this and RIP in hardcover. These are books I want to be able to read for years and years to come. Lots of brilliant things going on in both of them.

T Hedge Coke
06-26-2009, 10:57 AM
I do that Final Crisis is the culmination of all of Morrison's work.

Animal Man - Metacommentary on stories, and the importance of the DC characters

JLA - The JLA get their ass kicked but come back to defeat the big threat, fulfills Metron's prediction that they would lead the Earth into "the Fifth World".

Seven Soldiers - Either the characters show and kick ass(Frankenstein!) or its pretty much a direct sequel for that character/series(Mister Miracle).

All-Star Superman - Superman becomes more than just a man, he is seen as the God among men, the original one and the best, and he risks his life and uses fantastic deus ex machinas to save the world and the people he loves.

Batman - Batman or BatGOD, uses his THOUGHTS as weapons to defeat the clone army, gets the God Bullet from the Justice Hall(ya know, just in case), gets that weapon from the Monkey Scientist I'd assume(seen in Batman #683), and shoots the God of Evil.

And they all come together to make this big epic.

So, all of his DCU work, then (as opposed to "all of Morrison's work")? I do think it's a pretty definitive statement on the DCU as a whole and working entity, but find the trinity of Flex Mentallo/The Invisibles/The Filth closer to a boiling down of the Morrison aether into a concentrated Grantyness.

Final Crisis was a love letter to what makes the DCU the DCU, just as Marvel Boy was a concentration of the best and most central bits of the MU.

And the fact that the multiple universes is blase enough to be covered on mainstream news crawls in the DCU is the sort of thing that defines the DCU. Alien supermen walk the streets and work for major metropolitan newspapers. Billionaires in fetishwear patrol every alleyway and rooftop. Alien invasions are thwarted weekly. And alternate worlds are just down every street.