Okay, quick question about Jim Gordon... [Archive]

kevink31593

06-16-2009, 08:17 PM

Chonologically speaking, I believe Gordon's son, James Jr., was last seen in 1992's Legends of the Dark Knight Annual #2 in a story titles "Vows", written by Denny O'Neil with art by Michael Netzer and Luke McDonnell.

The story takes place in the present day (as of 1992). In 10 years or so that have passed since Year One, Commissioner Gordon has divorced his first wife, Barbara; and she took their son James Jr. to live with her in Chicago.

Sarah Essen, Gordon's lover from Year One, has returned to Gotham and her and Gordon are to be married.

Lt. Flass returns in this issue as well and takes revenge against Gordon by kidnapping his son, James Jr. It seems Flass holds a grudge against Gordon for being kicked off the police force back in Year One.

Young James Jr. has developed a fear of drowning after being traumatized as a baby when he fell of the bridge at the end of Year One. Flass uses this to his advantage to torture the young boy.

Batman saves James Jr., Gordon catches Flass, and Gordon and Essen end up getting married.

Gordon's son was last mentioned in Detective Comics #741, the final part of the "Endgame" arc at the end of No Man's land.

Joker has just murdered Sarah Essen when he says to Gordon: "You have a little boy, too, don't you?" Gordon then shoots Joker in the knee.

James Jr. has made several appearances as a baby/toddler in countless Legends of the Dark Knight issues that take place in Batman's early years, as well as in The Long Halloween and Dark Victory.

Kid Kyoto

06-16-2009, 11:09 PM

James Jr is Damien Wayne. :)

Gordons Sin

06-23-2009, 11:10 AM

Sorry but Kid Kyoto you're wrong. Here is the story of Damian Wayne (At least the beginning of the story).

Damian Wayne is the fifth and current Robin, and is alleged by Talia al Ghul to be her child fathered by Bruce Wayne (and thus the grandson of Batman villain Ra's al Ghul). The character was created by Grant Morrison for his run on Batman, beginning with issue #655, "Batman & Son" (2006).

The concept of Batman and Talia having a son first appears in Mike W. Barr's graphic novel Batman: Son of the Demon (1987). In this incarnation, the character is specifically known as "Ibn al Xu'ffasch" and never takes the name of Wayne in the Batman Demon books but is confirmed as the genetic son of Wayne

==============
yes I know it says "Allegedly" he's her son but the last paragraph is the killer one. If Wayne is his father then how can he be Jimmy Jr?

Sn4tcH

06-23-2009, 11:20 AM

No... I'm pretty sure Kyoto is right. James Jr. = Damian Wayne.

celticguy

06-23-2009, 11:24 AM

No... I'm pretty sure Kyoto is right. James Jr. = Damian Wayne.

Pretty sure he was kidding and Gordon took it the wrong way.

Global Honored

06-23-2009, 11:31 AM

So...Talia Al Ghul is actually Gordon's first wife?...wait???

Sn4tcH

06-23-2009, 11:34 AM

More like mistress... It all happened in the issue where Ra's offered Gordon a chance to use the Lazarus Pits on Sarah Essen.

celticguy

06-23-2009, 11:47 AM

More like mistress... It all happened in the issue where Ra's offered Gordon a chance to use the Lazarus Pits on Sarah Essen.

how could she resist such a skinny old guy who smells of tabacco.

Quinnhop

06-23-2009, 02:13 PM

Talia, you tricky devil you.

Now there's going to be a grudge match between Gordon and Batman for rightful paternity of Damian!!

Sn4tcH

06-23-2009, 02:16 PM

Well after the way that Gordon took out Bane and an army of Ubu's, I'm not so sure Batman can stand a chance.

RonnieThunderbolts

06-23-2009, 02:33 PM

Joking aside, James Jr. is 15 now, with Morrison saying Batman has been around for 15 years in their time line. It would be interesting to see him as a part of Jim and Barbara's lives.

Sn4tcH

06-23-2009, 04:14 PM

Seriously, James Jr. is like this hanging piece of meat that could be an awesome story! It's like Spider-man and Mary Janes forgotten baby

Vidocq

06-23-2009, 04:45 PM

Doesnt Gordon have a daughter AND a son?

Whatever happened to him?

Ive read one story with the baby in it but i have no idea where the child went.
Barbara became Batgirl, is the boy just not at all special or has no relevence to a story.

What the heck happened to him

That was covered in Batman: Night Cries a really good but forgotten OGN. Gordon's first wife, Barbara, gain full custody and she took him to Chicago.

Since we are on the subject of forgotten YO characters, whatever happened to Merkel? Outside YO I've only seen him in ASBAR, Night Cries and DKR.

AJM

06-23-2009, 04:57 PM

That was covered in Batman: Night Cries a really good but forgotten OGN. Gordon's first wife, Barbara, gain full custody and she took him to Chicago.

Since we are on the subject of forgotten YO characters, whatever happened to Merkel? Outside YO I've only seen him in ASBAR, Night Cries and DKR.

Night Cries... now where on earth did i put that? I shall have to find it now.

Avenger08

06-23-2009, 06:55 PM

Thank you for your answers.
Wow, he got the short end of the stick in that family

Also, did they retcon barbara gordon being Gordon's daughter?

I always thought she was but i recently read that she wasnt, anyone know?

also, how many times has gordon been married and is he currently married?
To who?

Captain Jim

06-23-2009, 06:59 PM

Also, did they retcon barbara gordon being Gordon's daughter?

I always thought she was but i recently read that she wasnt, anyone know?

In current continuity, she is Gordon's adopted daughter and biological niece (the biological child of Jim's late brother).

also, how many times has gordon been married and is he currently married?
To who?

Twice. He is not currently married. His first wife, Barbara, left him. His second wife, Sarah, was killed by the Joker in NML.

Jared

06-23-2009, 07:08 PM

In current continuity, she is Gordon's adopted daughter and biological niece (the biological child of Jim's late brother).
.

I do find it odd that she seemingly takes to calling him "dad" so quickly. And that she just happens to have the same first name as Jim's wife. I take it she was originally his daughter, but was retconned because Year One gave him an unborn son and no other children. Even if she were born the next year, she'd be younger than Dick Grayson.

Captain Jim

06-23-2009, 07:13 PM

I do find it odd that ... she just happens to have the same first name as Jim's wife.

Blame Frank Miller for that.

Jared

06-23-2009, 07:17 PM

So Gordon's brother died, any mention of how? And what about Bab's mother?

Captain Jim

06-23-2009, 07:20 PM

So Gordon's brother died, any mention of how? And what about Bab's mother?

They both died in an automobile accident. I'm trying to remember where the story was told; I believe it was in an early issue of Gotham Knights.

Sn4tcH

06-23-2009, 08:15 PM

Isn't there strong reason to believe that Gordon had an affair with Barbaras sister and that Babs may actually be his biological daught?

Deason

06-23-2009, 10:07 PM

Isn't there strong reason to believe that Gordon had an affair with Barbaras sister and that Babs may actually be his biological daught?

I'm pretty sure this was strongly suggested in one of Grayson's issues of Gotham Knights - has this been retconned?

Sn4tcH

06-23-2009, 10:33 PM

SHAZAM!!!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a365/Sn4tcH/Gordonbabymama.jpg

numberONE

06-24-2009, 01:32 AM

Jim Jr. could be an interesting character.

I was confused about Babs connection to Jim, too. I'm glad it's clear, now...or not.

Jared

06-24-2009, 03:46 AM

If Babs wants to know for sure, it'd be easy enough for her to run a DNA test without Jim knowing.

Global Honored

06-24-2009, 08:16 AM

oh how sweet...best buddies!!!
Bats and Gordo, Gotham Bromance #1!

pressdarlings

06-24-2009, 11:29 AM

Twice. He is not currently murdered. His first wife, Barbara, left him. His second wife, Sarah, was killed by the Joker in NML.[/QUOTE]

Murdered? What's going on here today? With Will calling Gordon God and you saying he's not murdered I don't know what else to think.

kevink31593

06-24-2009, 05:15 PM

For those of you who want to check out the back issue bins, the story of how Commissioner Gordon came to adopt his neice, Barbara "Babs" Gordon, was most recently retold in Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #159-161, from 2002, in a story arc titled "Loyalties".

The previously discussed issue which suggested that Commissioner Gordon might actually be Babs' biological father, from which Sn4tcH posted a picture, was Batman: Gotham Knights #6, from 2000.

Captain Jim

06-24-2009, 07:13 PM

Isn't there strong reason to believe that Gordon had an affair with Barbaras sister and that Babs may actually be his biological daught?

I think you mean an affair with Bab's biological mother (who I don't think was Barbara's sister, was she?)

Twice. He is not currently murdered. His first wife, Barbara, left him. His second wife, Sarah, was killed by the Joker in NML.

Murdered? What's going on here today? With Will calling Gordon God and you saying he's not murdered I don't know what else to think.

Gahh! I meant "married." It was late. :redface:

Sn4tcH

06-24-2009, 08:46 PM

I think you mean an affair with Bab's biological mother (who I don't think was Barbara's sister, was she?)

I couldn't remember the exact details, but yes, Babs is the daughter of Gordons BROTHER not his wifes sister.

For those of you who want to check out the back issue bins, the story of how Commissioner Gordon came to adopt his neice, Barbara "Babs" Gordon, was most recently retold in Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #159-161, from 2002, in a story arc titled "Loyalties".

The problem with those issues is that Babs is pretty old by that point, and I think it's been shown that she was very young when she was adopted...

Jae Namkyoung

06-25-2009, 06:38 AM

So let me put this into some prospective because this is starting to sound like Days of Our Spandex here, soooo listen up folks.

From what I can gather:

James Gordon, Senior is the biological Uncle/adoptive Father of Barbara Gordon.
James Gordon, Junior is the son of the above, (the biological son) his Mom is named Barbara Keane-Gordon.

Barbara Ann Gordon (our former Batgirl, current Oracle) is the daughter of Roger and Thelma Gordon, both died in a car crash when she was a young child (or pre-teen depending on what you read/watch).

Now there has been some speculation and one of you folks who read all these issues, (sorry I haven't so I'm just going by what I know). It has been .. Speculated .. That, Thelma and James, Senior had an affair. They never told Roger, thus Roger believed Barbs to be his own little girl.

Therefore, if in fact, Thelma and James did bow-chika-wow-wow together prior to Thelma marrying Roger, etc etc, that makes Barbs (our former Batgirl, current Oracle). The true biological daughter of James Gordon, Senior and sister to James Gordon, Junior.

But that is neither here nor there, as it's been popular to believe that she was adopted by James Gordon, Senior after his brother Roger and sister in law Thelma passed away in a car crash. Babs was supposedly a tot, and thus took to calling Daddy a lot sooner than most kids. Unless you watch Batman: The Animated Series, where she did call him Uncle Jim for a while until in a revamped one she started calling him Daddy.

Phew ... hope I made some sense ... if not then I'm just gonna go read Birds of Prey ...

kevink31593

06-25-2009, 05:17 PM

The problem with those issues is that Babs is pretty old by that point, and I think it's been shown that she was very young when she was adopted...

I've always imagined that Babs was 13ish when she was adopted. In "Madness" the second LOTDK Halloween special, Babs has just recently been adopted and she is old enough to take the train/subway by herself at the beginning of the issue.

LOTDK 159-161 does retcon a couple other things, though, so I agree it's in-continuity status is questionable. In the "Loyalties" arc in LOTDK, Roger Gordon is already dead at the start of the story. Also, Thelma is renamed "Jennifer".

Sn4tcH

06-25-2009, 08:42 PM

Now I know Batman Confidential is also kinda of iffy with it's in-continuity status, but the most recent issue had Babs in it. At this point she's young and at a Chuck E. Cheese type place, so I would have to assume at the MOST she would be 13. Now in this issue she's already calling Gordon daddy, and he's commenting about taking her to dance classes. So... who knows.

As for when the issue takes place... it's a sequel to the first arc that Kreisberg wrote, which involved the first time Batman dropped off the Joker at the GCPD. In that story the Joker does some horrible stuff and ends up driving one officer named Shancoe mad. They end up being the first two patients in the recently opened Arkham Asylum. In this story:

Shancoe breaks out of Arkham and tries to get revenge on the other cops.

In the first arc Gordon still had red hair, in the second he had gray hair. So obviously a good amount of time has passed... what do you guys think?

Edit: Also, just realized Montoya is in the second arc as a normal beat cop.

Avenger08

07-01-2009, 09:23 PM

Kid Kyoto

07-01-2009, 09:26 PM

Pretty sure he was kidding and Gordon took it the wrong way.

No, no it'll be the big reveal in issue #23, that's how DC will get around the whole problem that Damien Wayne being 10 years old means Bruce Wayne is 40 or 50 :biggrin:

Also on Barbara, no one's mentioned it but there is also strong evidence that before dating Roger Gordon, her mother Thelma was seen in the company of an 18-year old playboy named Bruce Wayne.

Avenger08

07-01-2009, 09:41 PM

^ Really????

RonnieThunderbolts

07-01-2009, 09:54 PM

thank you all for answering my questions.

NOW i understand.

I hate that she isnt his biological daughter, they should retcon that and make her his real daughter again.
And his real son should be introduced, test if people like him in some story (doing some shananagans or whatever, superhero, villain, DA, whatever, gothamy stuff), and either kill him, send him back where he came from, or make him big

To be fair, they have made it so Jim quite possibly may be her biological dad, as well as her adopted dad (covered well above). Also, James Jr. would be 15 or so, so a DA and a lot of other adult roles are out of the question.

^ Really????

No, not really.

Avenger08

07-01-2009, 10:02 PM

James Jr. would be 15

BLAST!
He could be Robin # _____

actually, how many we on now? 5? Goodness, Bruce Wayne adopts children like he uses a tissue. Use once, throw away, grab a new one.

Avenger08

07-01-2009, 10:03 PM

No, not really.

DOUBLE BLAST!!!!!!

Sean Walsh

07-02-2009, 08:37 AM

More like mistress... It all happened in the issue where Ra's offered Gordon a chance to use the Lazarus Pits on Sarah Essen.

Was this before or after Darkseid showed up and killed Hawkman?

:wink: :tongue:

Kid Kyoto

07-02-2009, 08:42 AM

Damien/Jim Gordon Jr is Robin #5 (Dick, Jason, Tim, Stephanie). Catwoman's daughter will become Robin 6 during Ultimate Crisis.

Sean Walsh

07-02-2009, 08:48 AM

Damien/Jim Gordon Jr is Robin #5 (Dick, Jason, Tim, Stephanie). Catwoman's daughter will become Robin 6 during Ultimate Crisis.

Wait hold on hang on a second whoa whoa WHOA!!!!!!111

We just got thru the FINAL Crisis, buddy. As in "the last one ever ever ever."

....

I'm beginning to think there's some shenanigans afoot here....

Kid Kyoto

07-02-2009, 09:00 AM

Sorry, I forgot to put up spoiler tags, otherwise people will find out about the 2nd death of Wonder Woman coming in 2010.

Avenger08

07-02-2009, 11:38 AM

okay, where are you gettting this stuff? Are you just making it up because i am really confused

RonnieThunderbolts

07-02-2009, 01:05 PM

okay, where are you gettting this stuff? Are you just making it up because i am really confused

Yes, he is making it up. None of that is based on anything from any source. It is just a joke, but I can understand not knowing what he is talking about.

Nick Vortex

07-02-2009, 04:29 PM

BLAST!
He could be Robin # _____

actually, how many we on now? 5? Goodness, Bruce Wayne adopts children like he uses a tissue. Use once, throw away, grab a new one.

Who is the Robin that I'm missing? Dick, Jason, Tim, Damien. Who's left out of that list?

RonnieThunderbolts

07-02-2009, 04:32 PM

Who is the Robin that I'm missing? Dick, Jason, Tim, Damien. Who's left out of that list?

The list is Dick, Jason, Tim, Stephanie and Damian. Also, to the poster you quoted, he never adopted Stephanie (although he did adopt Cassie), but adopting lots of children is pretty common for adopters and foster parents.

Kid Kyoto

07-02-2009, 06:49 PM

okay, where are you gettting this stuff? Are you just making it up because i am really confused

Yeah it's a joke, mostly because we all know this stuff is coming sooner or later.

DC will kill Wonder Woman (again). They will destroy the Green Lantern Corps (again). And they will bring back everyone who ever died including Jor-El and Thomas Wayne (opps already covered that one).