I'm Becoming Disillusioned with my Writting

[Tetsuo_man]

I'm disillusioned about being a comic writer. I've been trying to get several comic scripts done at a small comic book company. They got turned down and I decided to only pitch ideas first before writing. I pitched a sword and sorcery story in which the hero confronts a giant crab with fruit growing on it's back that is about to eat a maiden in trouble. Hero defeats crab or thinks he does then eats fruit. It's all a ruse and the maiden is really a demoness and she and the crab eat the hero,

The reaction I got was:
No thanks. Once again the story is totally undermined by a completely ridiculous core idea. "A giant crab with a fruit tree growing out of it" - is this a serious submission William?

It just hit me in the heart and has made me think I come up with too crazy ideas that I'll never come up with something substantially normal a story idea. I talked to some family members about it and they comforted me. Pointing out how well I have done in creative writing classes. Still I have started to totally question my writing ability.

[K-DoG7p7]

how big was the crab?

[Tetsuo_man]

I didn't specify just that it was giant (think weird tales/lovecraft/howard type of creature).

[Grazzt]

You should create monsters for the various D&D monster manuals. They come up with weirder stuff than that all the time.

As for the concept itself, you should just increase the size of the crab. If it's, say, island sized, it could easily have trees growing on top of it. Although that rips off any number of stories about sea creatures of that size.

[Free-Man]

I'm sory man.....damn.
But here's the deal, you just can't pout like this. Raging against those who rejected your ideas may take away any future opportunities to work for them.

[Infra-Man]

Just keep at it, everyone goes through that. Keep reading, keep producing, keep on keeping on.

As a plus, you at least got a personalized response as opposed to a form letter or faceless rejection.

[Tetsuo_man]

I'm sory man.....damn.
But here's the deal, you just can't pout like this. Raging against those who rejected your ideas may take away any future opportunities to work for them.

I'm not trying to come off as Raging against them. I totally understand their point and which is why I'm questioning my own abilities as a writer.

[TCJohnson]

Out of curiosity, did you pitch it exactly like how you said here?

Because it is a weird idea....but weird can be great in the right type of story!

[Tetsuo_man]

Just keep at it, everyone goes through that. Keep reading, keep producing, keep on keeping on.

As a plus, you at least got a personalized response as opposed to a form letter or faceless rejection.

That was something that when I talked to my family about this my mom said the same thing. She also said I need to have some thicker skin. And then my brother pointed out how it usually takes years for writers to get published. But I have been doubting my abilites recently.

[Free-Man]

I'm not trying to come off as Raging against them. I totally understand their point and which is why I'm questioning my own abilities as a writer.

Don't doubt yourself! I've read some of your work, and it rocked. I'm not sure exactly how you pitched the idea though. If you are worried about not being able to do a proper pitch, have you considered having someone write down the pitch for you?

[Tetsuo_man]

By the way this was my exact pitch.
While I'm working on a rewrite of that one superhero story I sent I came up with another. It is a sword and Sorcery story. In it a cliched sword wielding barbarian finds a maiden in the clutches of a giant crab with a fruit tree growing out of it. The crab is defeated but before the hero unties the maiden he eats the fruit. He passes out and it is revealed that it is all a trick and the crab along with the maiden (who is revealed as some demon in cahoots with the giant crab) eat the body of the hero.

[Paul McEnery]

That was something that when I talked to my family about this my mom said the same thing. She also said I need to have some thicker skin. And then my brother pointed out how it usually takes years for writers to get published. But I have been doubting my abilites recently.

Every writer has a file full of rejection letters.

Friend of mine finally got his FOURTH novel published. One through three -- circular file. As he said: people have to write a lot of bad novels to finally write the good one.

It takes a long time to hone your craft. The idea you think is great might not be so great -- most people's first ideas aren't -- and you have to shitcan a lot of not-so-great ideas before you get down to the good ones.

[Tetsuo_man]

Yeah I probably should get someone else to write my pitches for me. Also James that story I showed you was rejected for it's deus ex machina ending with the ending.

[Paul McEnery]

Yeah I probably should get someone else to write my pitches for me. Also James that story I showed you was rejected for it's deus ex machina ending with the ending.

Rule #1:

NO DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!!!!!!!

:biggrin:

Here's something I recommend, if you can find it. Old short story collections from Isaac Asimov. In between the stories, he talks about how he made the sale, what things had to get changed in edit, what the editors told him, what stories didn't make the grade, and so on.

[Infra-Man]

That was something that when I talked to my family about this my mom said the same thing. She also said I need to have some thicker skin. And then my brother pointed out how it usually takes years for writers to get published. But I have been doubting my abilites recently.

Just remember Stephen King's rejection letter spike. I got a nail on the wall that's clumped with them as well. And your mom is right, you can't take rejection too hard because you will be rejected. David Sedaris was in his 30s when he finally had his first work published, and even then it took awhile before he became what he is today.

And TC Johnson's got a point--pitching a fanciful conceit can be a tough sell, so maybe the pitch itself might have been the issue rather than the story per se. I mean, using the phrase "cliched sword wielding barbarian" may not be the best way to sell the story, and the pitch itself could be better realized than it is. In that case, you try to learn what works and doesn't work from the piece produced and continue refining and working.

[K-DoG7p7]

Yeah I probably should get someone else to write my pitches for me. Also James that story I showed you was rejected for it's deus ex machina ending with the ending.

I can come up with the stories.. and you write the dialog and scenes and stuff



I'm a superb comic book writer... until i have to do more then coming up with the plots themself

[Tetsuo_man]

Rule #1:

NO DEUS EX MACHINA!!!!!!!!!!!

:biggrin:

I didn't intend it that way but hindsight is always 20/20. Plus the idea of a superhero with a button on his chest that would kill him sounds pretty stupid (which I agreed and didn't even think of it when I wrote it). But it was these kinds of things that made me think why didn't I notice that and made me question my writing ability. And I will agree I do come off as a bit whiny here.

[Tetsuo_man]

I can come up with the stories.. and you write the dialog and scenes and stuff



I'm a superb comic book writer... until i have to do more then coming up with the plots themself

I would totally like to collaborate then.

[Corrina]

I have over sixty rejections over the years.

My book comes out next year.

I know writers with over 100 rejections before they were published.

One thing I've learned. It's easier to pitch a crazy idea if you can show the idea in motion--finished--to people. Sucks to do all that work with no guarantee but......

[Tetsuo_man]

I have over sixty rejections over the years.

My book comes out next year.

I know writers with over 100 rejections before they were published.

One thing I've learned. It's easier to pitch a crazy idea if you can show the idea in motion--finished--to people. Sucks to do all that work with no guarantee but......

This is why I wish I knew an artist willing to work with me (I know a few artists but they are working on their own projects and don't have time to work with me).

[TCJohnson]

One thing I've learned. It's easier to pitch a crazy idea if you can show the idea in motion--finished--to people. Sucks to do all that work with no guarantee but......

That is kinda what I was thinking. You need to sell them on the giant crab.. describe it is monsterous or surreal. Give them the feeling you want the readers to get when they see this crab.

[Paul McEnery]

I have over sixty rejections over the years.

My book comes out next year.

I know writers with over 100 rejections before they were published.

One thing I've learned. It's easier to pitch a crazy idea if you can show the idea in motion--finished--to people. Sucks to do all that work with no guarantee but......

Standard Operating Procedure, ain't it.

Besides, if you're not doing the work for the love of doing the work, the world probably doesn't need it all that much.

[TCJohnson]

This is why I wish I knew an artist willing to work with me (I know a few artists but they are working on their own projects and don't have time to work with me).

Have you looked online? Go oer to deviant art...lot of great artists over there. Put an add in craigslist.

[Tetsuo_man]

Have you looked online? Go oer to deviant art...lot of great artists over there. Put an add in craigslist.

I never thought of putting an ad on Craigslist but I might now.

[Paul McEnery]

I never thought of putting an ad on Craigslist but I might now.

I'm going to give you another pro tip.

Shoebox your stories.

In the first flush of creativity, everything you do seems great! A month later, maybe not. So keep working, an hour every day if you really want to get good, and shelve everything you do for at least 30 days.

If you're improving, you'll notice that you can't stand what you did 30 days ago. Keep going. At some point, you'll hit the point where what you did 30 days ago isn't so bad, and you can start editing it into shape as part of your process. But it's important to achieve that critical distance before you do it.

And even pros who've been published for decades still do this, and still rely on an editor to tell them when they've failed to communicate an idea, or accidentally plagiarized, or otherwise bollixed it up.

But a daily practice is absolutely key.

[Matt Algren]

By the way this was my exact pitch.
I wouldn't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure that's not what a professional pitch looks like.

[K-DoG7p7]

Ok how about this!
An archeology student who is about to drop out comes across the biggest find in history! He finds the Spear of the Morningstar! forged by god himself, wield by the MorningStar with the blood of Archangel Michael forever fresh on its blade.
Naturally there are alot of people who wants the spear; The Knights Templar, a few Satanic Cults, The University he was studding at, The museum that was funding the dig and so on.
And thus begins a weird and funky road trip, with a looser holding the most powerful artifact ever!



Ohh.. and I actually started writing that one..
3 months inn and i have completed 7 pages! WHOO!!!

[Tetsuo_man]

I wouldn't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure that's not what a professional pitch looks like.

Yeah looking back that was another problem. Like I said I need someone else to write my pitches.

[TomStillwell]

Ok how about this!
An archeology student who is about to drop out comes across the biggest find in history! He finds the Spear of the Morningstar! forged by god himself, wield by the MorningStar with the blood of Archangel Michael forever fresh on its blade.
Naturally there are alot of people who wants the spear; The Knights Templar, a few Satanic Cults, The University he was studding at, The museum that was funding the dig and so on.
And thus begins a weird and funky road trip, with a looser holding the most powerful artifact ever!



Ohh.. and I actually started writing that one..
3 months inn and i have completed 7 pages! WHOO!!!

Why would an angel need a spear?

[Paul McEnery]

Why would an angel need a spear?

If Michael's got one, you know his opponent would want one too.

Or look what happens:

http://hearteng.110mb.com/towns/coventry-stmichael.jpg

[TomStillwell]

If Michael's got one, you know his opponent would want one too.

Or look what happens:

http://hearteng.110mb.com/towns/coventry-stmichael.jpg

But if God made the spear for Lucifer then at the time Michael and Lucifer weren't opponents. Why did Lucifer need a spear if he had no use for it?

There's also the matter of a being composed of spirit leaving blood behind. Or a spiritual being using a physical weapon.

Even just his crude pitch has major plot holes. I'd hate to see an actual script.

[Sarah Beach]

I'm disillusioned about being a comic writer. I've been trying to get several comic scripts done at a small comic book company. They got turned down and I decided to only pitch ideas first before writing. I pitched a sword and sorcery story in which the hero confronts a giant crab with fruit growing on it's back that is about to eat a maiden in trouble. Hero defeats crab or thinks he does then eats fruit. It's all a ruse and the maiden is really a demoness and she and the crab eat the hero,

.... snip ....


It just hit me in the heart and has made me think I come up with too crazy ideas that I'll never come up with something substantially normal a story idea. I talked to some family members about it and they comforted me. Pointing out how well I have done in creative writing classes. Still I have started to totally question my writing ability.

(1) NEVER call one of your own characters "cliched". It implies you have contempt for your own character, and makes the reader wonder why they should read it.

(2) You have given the PLOT of your story. What is it about? What is there about the story that is going to make me or anyone want to read it. If you are simply going for "weird" to show off how "creative" you are, it's the wrong way to do it, and it won't impress. What will impress would be your ability to make me want to read the story (which at the moment, I don't).

The following was posted online some time ago, when Mike Marts was working at Marvel. This is good advice, and I use it in preparing pitches, and not just for comic book stuff.

1. WHO CAN SEND PITCHES
Marts prefers established writers. He can’t remember buying a story from anyone who had not already established themselves as a writer in some media.

2. FORMAT
Written.

3. LENGTH
The shorter, the better. No more than four pages. He won’t read more and neither will his bosses.

4. MATERIAL
Use company owned [X-Men] related characters. Show him you can do something different and exciting. [Adapt to this to suit the company you are pitch for. It doesn't always apply. S.]

5. SETTING UP YOUR CONCEPT
Hook: Yes
Hollywood Pitch Style Logline: Yes
Genre: Keep it Simple – ex. ‘A Western In Outer Space’
Cliffhanger: If you’re pitching a story over several issues, you can tell him the cliffhangers but he needs to know how they are resolved.
Setting/milieu: A sentence or two works. No need for details.

6. PLOT
A brief overview is enough.

7. CHARACTERS
What’s their arc? Tell him their highs and lows in the story.

8. ARTIST ATTACHMENT
There are so many variables that an artist could be a detriment. However, it is good to suggest possible artists to give a sense of the tone you have in mind.


You also need to read Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers. Most especially the chapter on the amount of practice needed for success in any field: computer programming, playing the violin, doing artwork, working specialty type law, or writing. 10,000 hours. As a writer, it doesn't even matter what type of writing: journalling, reviewing, blogging opinion pieces, working on scripts, short stories, novels. 10,000 hours.

Pursuing a career in writing requires persistence. You have to want to do it more than anything. You have to get your joy out of the simple process of stringing words together. Because it takes a long time to get someone to buy your work, no matter how good you are.

[Cam63]

Tet'... Learn and move on.

...and never give up !

[Cam63]

Why would an angel need a spear?

They like to poke stuff too ?

[K-DoG7p7]

But if God made the spear for Lucifer then at the time Michael and Lucifer weren't opponents. Why did Lucifer need a spear if he had no use for it?

There's also the matter of a being composed of spirit leaving blood behind. Or a spiritual being using a physical weapon.

Even just his crude pitch has major plot holes. I'd hate to see an actual script.

You should ask the pope that question..
Almost all art depicting the fall shows angels with some form of bladed weapons

[TomStillwell]

You should ask the pope that question..
Almost all art depicting the fall shows angels with some form of bladed weapons

You don't need to be the pope to read and study the Bible.

[K-DoG7p7]

You don't need to be the pope to read and study the Bible.
true.. but if the Pope said they had stuff like that then they did "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven"..

[TomStillwell]

1. Popes are men appointed by men and no more authority on spiritual matters than anyone else on the planet. If he was a true student of the Bible he'd realize the idiocy of having a pope and the need of a priesthood as intercessors between man and God. A good portion of Catholicism is based on stuff men made up with no actual basis from the Bible.

2. Okay, let's look at your verse. That pertains to the acceptance or rejection of salvation. The full verse is : "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."

3. According to your story the spear was made before Lucifer fell. You do know that happened before the Earth or Man was created right? Before a such thing as conflict even existed? Again, why would God forge an item that had no use...other than to give you a cool sounding idea for a pitch?

[K-DoG7p7]

3. According to your story the spear was made before Lucifer fell. You do know that happened before the Earth or Man was created right? Before a such thing as conflict even existed? Again, why would God forge an item that had no use...other than to give you a cool sounding idea for a pitch?

Thats something you should ask a priest or something.. of the artists that made the paintings and sculptures showing angels with swords and spears in the battle before The Fall.

And every single statue shows Micheal with a sword of a spear
Fontaine Saint-Michel in Paris
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Fontaine-Saint-Michel-p1000419.jpg)the church Sankt Michaelis in Hamburg
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Statue_of_Archangel_Michael_over_the_main_Gate_of_ the_church_Sankt_Michaelis_in_Hamburg_Germany.jpg)

here is a painting by Raphael
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Sanmichele_satana_raffaello.jpg

another statue..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/StMichaelAugsburg.jpg

[TCJohnson]

In Paradise Lost, Milton describe Satan as holding a spear, the shaft the size of a ship's mast.

"to equal which the tallest Pine / Hewn on Norwegian hills, to be the Mast / Of some great Ammiral, were but a wand"

[TCJohnson]

From Gustov Dore for Paradise Lost:

http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/paradise_lost.jpg

http://www.obsessedwithfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/paradise_lost.jpg

Of course, you might want to ask why Satan has a spear in the story. A spear is a symbol of anceint warfare. Maybe Satan's weapon, a little piece of his power, appears to us as a spear because it is something we can understand the meaning of.

[Samurai]

I'm disillusioned about being a comic writer. I've been trying to get several comic scripts done at a small comic book company. They got turned down and I decided to only pitch ideas first before writing. I pitched a sword and sorcery story in which the hero confronts a giant crab with fruit growing on it's back that is about to eat a maiden in trouble. Hero defeats crab or thinks he does then eats fruit. It's all a ruse and the maiden is really a demoness and she and the crab eat the hero,

The reaction I got was:


It just hit me in the heart and has made me think I come up with too crazy ideas that I'll never come up with something substantially normal a story idea. I talked to some family members about it and they comforted me. Pointing out how well I have done in creative writing classes. Still I have started to totally question my writing ability.

By any chance, have you ever read Claw #10?

http://www.keneriksen.com/images/comics/scans/700/15/158-700.jpg

It has some similarities to your proposal... Claw is a sword and sorcery hero, and he starts off the issue fighting a demonic frog to save a woman. After a short fight scene, Claw wounds it and moves in for the kill, but the woman clubs him from behind, stunning him. She then walks forward and allows herself to be eaten by the giant frog demon, and when she does, her face appears on its back. Claw, having no reason to keep fighting, and the frog having eaten its meal, part ways. Claw then arrives at a remote mansion where 3 sorcerers offer to let him stay the night. They offer him singing fruit as a meal. The fruit is something they plucked from the Netherworlds with their sorcery, and that info along with the fruit's singing is enough for Claw to skip dinner that night. He considers leaving the house and taking his chances sleeping in the wilds, but decides the 3 Sorcerers are probably harmless, barricades his door just to be sure, and spends the night...

Later, it's revealed that these 3 were the ones responsible for sending the woman to the frog demon. They get a perverse thrill out of linking their senses to a person and then having them killed in some new, unique way, just so they can experience it vicariously. They are all immortal and can never die, so they are fascinated by experiencing what death feels like.

Anyway, your proposal reminded me of this story because it has the barbarian hero, giant monster (frog or crab), girl betrays hero, and just 2 pages later, hero encounters strange fruit! So hey, if this book could get published (granted, the title did not sell well and was canceled after only a few more issues...), maybe you have a chance, you just need to tweak a few things, maybe get rid of the fruit tree on the back of the crab and have it growing in the ground nearby, etc. Maybe the strange tree is alive and controls the actions of whomever eats its fruit, and the woman and giant crab are under its control...

[Tetsuo_man]

By any chance, have you ever read Claw #10?

http://www.keneriksen.com/images/comics/scans/700/15/158-700.jpg

It has some similarities to your proposal... Claw is a sword and sorcery hero, and he starts off the issue fighting a demonic frog to save a woman. After a short fight scene, Claw wounds it and moves in for the kill, but the woman clubs him from behind, stunning him. She then walks forward and allows herself to be eaten by the giant frog demon, and when she does, her face appears on its back. Claw, having no reason to keep fighting, and the frog having eaten its meal, part ways. Claw then arrives at a remote mansion where 3 sorcerers offer to let him stay the night. They offer him singing fruit as a meal. The fruit is something they plucked from the Netherworlds with their sorcery, and that info along with the fruit's singing is enough for Claw to skip dinner that night. He considers leaving the house and taking his chances sleeping in the wilds, but decides the 3 Sorcerers are probably harmless, barricades his door just to be sure, and spends the night...

Later, it's revealed that these 3 were the ones responsible for sending the woman to the frog demon. They get a perverse thrill out of linking their senses to a person and then having them killed in some new, unique way, just so they can experience it vicariously. They are all immortal and can never die, so they are fascinated by experiencing what death feels like.

Anyway, your proposal reminded me of this story because it has the barbarian hero, giant monster (frog or crab), girl betrays hero, and just 2 pages later, hero encounters strange fruit! So hey, if this book could get published (granted, the title did not sell well and was canceled after only a few more issues...), maybe you have a chance, you just need to tweak a few things, maybe get rid of the fruit tree on the back of the crab and have it growing in the ground nearby, etc. Maybe the strange tree is alive and controls the actions of whomever eats its fruit, and the woman and giant crab are under its control...

I had never read the comic and had only vague knowledge of Claw. But it also highlights how easy it is to come up with an idea similar to another which one has no knowledge of.